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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 21, 2020

In the predawn hours of March 30, Dr. Deborah Birx stepped in front of the camera on the White House lawn and made an alarming prediction about the coronavirus, which had, by then, killed fewer than 3,000 people in the United States. "If we do things together, well, almost perfectly, we can get in the range of 100,000 to 200,000 fatalities," Birx, coordinator of the White House coronavirus task force, told Savannah Guthrie of NBC News' "Today" show.

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Congratulations Bunker Bitch.

#1 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-09-19 03:26 PM | Reply

Two-hundred thousand American dead and there still is such a thing as a Trumpite.

400,000 by January 1st, 2021.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-19 05:20 PM | Reply

400,000 by January 1st, 2021.

#2 | POSTED BY ZED

We are heading for half a million. I don't see an end in sight. The vaccine is not going to end it. There is nothing between us and a million dead Americans under Trumpy's criminal negligence.

The new Plan is "Herd Mentality".

That means about another 5 million dead Americans.

#3 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-20 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Who's gonna rush in and tell me what a great job trump is doing?

Or how about telling me Obama/Clinton/Biden would have done worse???

Come on - I know you're out there.

#4 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 12:22 PM | Reply

Maybe not 5 million, but I think if we stay this course there will definitely be over 1 million deaths when all is said and done. Probably closer to 2 million.

#5 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 12:25 PM | Reply

One thing we can be certain of: No one in the WH is mentioning the COVID dead on penalty of Donald Trump soiling his diapers.

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 12:28 PM | Reply

I'm glad Dr. Birx was wrong about her prediction. And if it weren't for all these Democrat governors and mayors, as well as the fake press and CNN, no one would be talking about this Chinese virus anymore. It's all their fault...
-Mentally ill President of a fading superpower, to be repeated by his staff of toadies

#7 | Posted by catdog at 2020-09-21 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's just this iteration. What about next year,or the years after that? We could have multiple pandemics. The virus is here now. It's not going away. It may go dormant or mutate into something with a vastly higher death rate.

Anyone who says they know how this is going to go is full of ----.

This is uncharted territory.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-09-21 12:33 PM | Reply

Laws of probability:

50% chance of getting worse

50% chance of getting better

In a perfect world - but with trump at the helm

90% chance of getting worse

10% chance of getting better

He's already moved onto "filling that seat" so he can disregard Covid altogether.

He-Yump!

#9 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 12:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This is uncharted territory."

It appears that the number of new Coronavirus cases may have leveled off at somewhere between 25k and 45k new cases each day.

It is now a member of the family.

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 01:11 PM | Reply

The republicl0wns did this on purpose... its a ruse to divert attention away from the stock market tanking... and Trumpibunkerboi's sinking poll numbers.

Besides people are saying... if we didn't count the dead... the blue states would look great... so no one would be dying... and we wouldn't need testing... its all a hoax put on by the fake news.

#11 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-09-21 01:12 PM | Reply

It appears that the number of new Coronavirus cases may have leveled off at somewhere between 25k and 45k new cases each day.
#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Had testing levels remained steady or increased then that could be said but since testing levels have declined over the past couple of months it's hard to say how rapidly the virus is testing. Big props to the MAGAt's who overrode the scientists in making the testing recommendations.

#12 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2020-09-21 01:18 PM | Reply

What's the big deal. All these people would have died someday anyway. Why is everyone trying to politicize this? 10,000 dead with a prompt intelligent government response or 200,000 doing it the Trump Way, who cares? All these people would eventually die anyway.

#13 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-09-21 01:19 PM | Reply

"Maybe not 5 million, but I think if we stay this course there will definitely be over 1 million deaths when all is said and done. Probably closer to 2 million."

In the US? That low?

My understanding is that the standard flu bug kills around 60k people each year. And that's with a vaccine. The average number of deaths per day due to COVID sit at just over 1000 per day. So don't you think it's a reasonable assumption that around 365k will die by March 2021? And qhy wouldn't an additional 365k die each following year?

Maybe two million over the next decade, but over an infinite timeline, how do you forecast how many will die?

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 01:20 PM | Reply

"Had testing levels remained steady or increased then that could be said but since testing levels have declined over the past couple of months it's hard to say how rapidly the virus is testing."

How would testing make a difference?

It's easy to test those who show symptoms...I think most are...but does that really paint an accurate picture of who has the infection?

#15 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 01:24 PM | Reply

Grim Milestone

If one is very quiet, he can almost hear the grimness.

It's very grim.

#16 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-09-21 01:26 PM | Reply

"Why is everyone trying to politicize this? 10,000 dead with a prompt intelligent government response or 200,000 doing it the Trump Way, who cares? All these people would eventually die anyway."

What exactly is a promt, intelligent response?

From my vantage point, all I see is lock downs followed by re-opening, which inevitably lead to more lock-downs.

The virus isn't going anywhere. You can't run from it. To me, this leaves two broad choices. Either put society on pause until such time in the future that viable vaccine is available, or open up and get it over with. But the worldwide response that I'm seeing seems more like a paniced act aof fear than a thoughtful response.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 01:28 PM | Reply

#14 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

We've been in a time frame when spread is historically reduced.

Going in to influenza season there is absolutely no good reasons to assume case numbers and spread will remain at current levels. That's why 200K dead from spring into summer is concerning.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 01:37 PM | Reply

This is what happens when a president is elected from a party that wants to show how government is failed and incompetent. They don't want anyone to depend on the government, so they openly sabotage government effort. It's beyond my personal credulity why any group would want to hire a CEO that is openly hostile to the organization.

#19 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2020-09-21 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What exactly is a promt, intelligent response?

Well, first of all we could have sent properly trained and equipped personnel to receive the initial cases from ex pats returning from China. What we got in reality was a ---- show where untrained workers that probably spread the illness into the surrounded community.

We would have also had proper contact tracing in place to mop up initial hot spots that were identified by properly implemented testing. We got neither because the administration preferred to down play and ignore it to avoid spooking the stock market.

Public health responses to new illnesses are tested and optimized. This wasn't a black box to be developed on the fly. Trump and his administration not only did none of it but did the opposite of it by doing nothing.

#20 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 01:42 PM | Reply

What happens if it blows up like a bomb this fall? If cases explode exponentially? Death's could go off the charts. Then what? More lockdowns,but the virus has already gotten a huge head start. I see a lot of downside going into the coming winter.

If we had locked down properly from the start things wouldn't be so bad. But no, asset prices had to be preserved. The rich need more, always more.

Trump lied to everyone about the danger. He committed a terrible crime. Now the horror is unleashed,it can't be stopped now.Only mitigated,and not even that very effectively.

The vaccine could turn out to be a mirage too.

#21 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-09-21 01:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why is everyone trying to politicize this? 10,000 dead with a prompt intelligent government response or 200,000 doing it the Trump Way, who cares? All these people would eventually die anyway."
What exactly is a promt, intelligent response?
From my vantage point, all I see is lock downs followed by re-opening, which inevitably lead to more lock-downs.
The virus isn't going anywhere. You can't run from it. To me, this leaves two broad choices. Either put society on pause until such time in the future that viable vaccine is available, or open up and get it over with. But the worldwide response that I'm seeing seems more like a paniced act aof fear than a thoughtful response.

#17 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You see, there is a scientifically defined process that will minimize the spread of the virus.

Unfortunately, many do not believe in science. Many people have arrested development, meaning they are children in adult bodies. These people are selfish and willfully ignorant. Like children.

So, we are stuck with "panicking", instead of acting like adults and solving the problem.

#22 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-21 02:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Trump, September 13: "I'm on a stage and it's very far away. So I'm not at all concerned."

#23 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2020-09-21 02:13 PM | Reply

It's very grim.

#16 | Posted by Mao_Content

Tell us all about it after you've contracted it.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 02:26 PM | Reply

Trump, September 13: "I'm on a stage and it's very far away. So I'm not at all concerned."

#23 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar

Meanwhile, someone has been spitting into his Diet Coke.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 02:27 PM | Reply

My understanding is that the standard flu bug kills around 60k people each year. And that's with a vaccine. The average number of deaths per day due to COVID sit at just over 1000 per day. So don't you think it's a reasonable assumption that around 365k will die by March 2021? And qhy wouldn't an additional 365k die each following year?

60K was one time in the past 10-12 years. The low was 12,000. The average is around 30,59/54,296 (Low End Estimate/High End Estimate)

Death is only one outcome, though, and the lingering affects of COVID-19 are nothing like the flu. There is substantial organ damage showing up for even some of those that were asymptomatic.

Besides, why in the world is 1,000/day acceptable? How is this not grim in the truest sense?

What is it with the sociopathy in Mao and MB's posts? Why is any death that could be prevented 'acceptable'? How is something this grim something to be made fun of?

#26 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-21 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What is it with the sociopathy in Mao and MB's posts?

#26 | Posted by YAV

Sociopathy explains itself.

May as well ask why rednecks make a point of running over cats and turtles crossing the highway.

#27 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-What is it with the sociopathy in Mao and MB's posts? Why is any death that could be prevented 'acceptable'? How is something this grim something to be made fun of?

How do you explain legalized tobacco, alcohol, motorcycles, etc...legal vices that cause many many deaths all the time?

Also very grim stats....that we casually accept every day as part of our society.

#28 | Posted by maskedman at 2020-09-21 02:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"What is it with the sociopathy in Mao and MB's posts?"

It's enjoyable for them.
They're the kind of people who can only feel good when someone they look down upon is suffering.
Things like Trump separating migrant children from their parents makes them happy. It fills them with pride in their country and a sense of righteous justice.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 02:39 PM | Reply

Explaining vices that people choose to engage in when asking about sociopathy exhibted by a poster WRT a pandemic infectious disease is a curious "defense."

I posted this on the nooner:

For instance if we had LEADEERSHIP we could have the results of:
Canada and our 200,000 dead could have been 82,000. 118,000 people might be alive today that died from COVID-19.
Germany and our 200,000 dead could have been 37,000. 163,000 people might be alive today that died from COVID-19.

We could have saved so many people and their families and loved ones from the horrors of COVID-19. We could have saved so many Doctors, Nurses, First Responders from the trauma, some reporting worse than being in a war zone.

Instead we denied like the UK, Sweden, and Brazil did - all with the same results in deaths from COVID-19.

#30 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-21 02:47 PM | Reply

snoofy- don't forget the free uterus removals we so generously provide at the border, free of charge and consent.

how do evangelicals square that circle, i wonder.

#31 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2020-09-21 02:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

how do evangelicals square that circle, i wonder.

Evangelicals don't care about women. Or reproductive organs.

Only fetuses.

Although. If the news was, "ICE preforming abortions on future anchor babies."

Evangelicals would probably justify that too.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-09-21 02:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There's nothing better than folks that didn't finish high school lecturing me about statistics on a thread.

The death rate stands at 3%

If 3% of people died from each motorcycle ride we'd outlaw them immediately.

If 3% of people died from each beer they drank we'd outlaw them immediately.

If 3% of people died every time they bought a pack of cigarettes we'd outlaw them immediatley.

But what do I know?!?

#33 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 03:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They square it joyously at Trump defending the Homeland from further infestation by non-Americans. The other day Rocky_B telegraphed as much when e said he opposes birthright citizenship.

Ripping out their uteruses against their will certainly keeps them from squirting out any new brown American anchor babies.

Meanwhile, Trump is still letting wealthy Chinese and Russians travel here late in pregnancy to deliver their anchor babies, right?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:01 PM | Reply

The history of forced sterilization of Native Americans is another dark chapter.
That was done to women who were seeking abortions at publicly funded hospitals, and without their consent.
'History doesn't repeat itself but it often rhymes.'

#35 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-21 03:04 PM | Reply

"Going in to influenza season there is absolutely no good reasons to assume case numbers and spread will remain at current levels. That's why 200K dead from spring into summer is concerning."

I guess I didn't phrase it correctly. You're saying two million dead as a result of COVID. That would seem to imply that at some point in the future, there will be no more deaths from COVID. We still have tens of thousands of flu deaths every year. Why do you think COVID is going to be different?

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:07 PM | Reply

"Well, first of all we could have sent properly trained and equipped personnel to receive the initial cases from ex pats returning from China."

Did other countries do that?

"Public health responses to new illnesses are tested and optimized."

Maybe one of the outcomes of COVID would be the creation of a DARPA-like organization who's mission was to provide quick-turn results to emerging medical disasters.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:10 PM | Reply

"You see, there is a scientifically defined process that will minimize the spread of the virus."

You can minimize the spread of the virus. But what you can't do is maintain a functional society without spreading the virus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the policies of every country I'm aware of involve locking down when numbers go up, and re-opening when they go down. Which inevitably leads to numbers going back up.

How does this make any sense at all?

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:14 PM | Reply

Stop while you're behind.

#39 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 03:15 PM | Reply

"Besides, why in the world is 1,000/day acceptable? How is this not grim in the truest sense?"

So then what measures do you think should be taken to prevent this? The virus is now part of this world. It's not going anywhere. So how do you reconcile an environment that will inevitably kill 1000 people per day with the desire to keep them alive?

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:17 PM | Reply

You can minimize the spread of the virus. But what you can't do is maintain a functional society without spreading the virus.

Weird. Seems we were able to do exactly that with swine flu, H1N1, Avian flu, Ebola...

But, now that Trump has totally screwed up the response to COVID.

His sycophants screech, "Nothing could have been done!"

I guess they're right. Trump is incompetent. He's a dementia suffering narcissist. He bankrupted a casino. Literally a place made to steal money from the public and he caused it to fail.

We expected too much from him. We know he's incompetent.

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-09-21 03:21 PM | Reply

Seriously?

I will not explain the published and obvious answers to all that again.

#42 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-21 03:21 PM | Reply

A loss of life anywhere is a loss of life everywhere.

Remember that guy with ominous handle...

#43 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 03:21 PM | Reply

#42 for #40.

#44 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-21 03:22 PM | Reply

I guess I didn't phrase it correctly. You're saying two million dead as a result of COVID. That would seem to imply that at some point in the future, there will be no more deaths from COVID. We still have tens of thousands of flu deaths every year. Why do you think COVID is going to be different?

#36 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Gotcha.

You're correct. There will continue to be deaths from SARS-CoV-2 for as long as it circulates in humans.

I'm not sure what measure is used to declare a pandemic over and the virus now endemic (which is certainly is), but my 1-2 million estimate is from the pandemic phase.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 03:24 PM | Reply

Did other countries do that?

Yes. South Korea kept it under control by rigorously applying public health measures.

Maybe one of the outcomes of COVID would be the creation of a DARPA-like organization who's mission was to provide quick-turn results to emerging medical disasters.

This is what infectious disease specialists have been calling for for ages. But, because pandemics are rare it was easy to brush off by people more concerned with fake budgetary issues.

In fact, the infrastructure Trump dismantled was what little of that preparedness network we had.

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 03:26 PM | Reply

"Did other countries do that?"

You live in a country that did that.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:28 PM | Reply

How does this make any sense at all?

#38 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Truthfully it doesn't. Which is why a measured approach to keep the line as flat as possible (as opposed to constant highs and lows) is the goal.

Countries like New Zealand and South Korea did it right in that they snuffed it out early. Sure, it'll show back up and second waves are inevitable, but with the extremely low case loads they're able to control new outbreaks as well.

The aim is to keep that cycle going for as long as you can until a vaccine is approved.

Or you can be a sociopath who thinks the best thing to do is simply let people get it until we have "herd mentality."

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 03:29 PM | Reply

"But what do I know?!?"

Not a lot, apparently.

For school-age children, they face a higher risk on the drive to school than they do from catching COVID once they get there.

Out of the 2.1 million uniformed service members in the US, 43,419 have contracted the virus (or 1/50 service members). Of those who contracted it, 603 were hospitalized (or 1/100 service members). Seven have died, which gives the DoD a mortality rate of .01% of those who were infected, or 1/300,000.

The DoD loses, on average, about 400 Service members to training accidents each year. Using your logic, the DoD should suspend training, as training is approximately 5700% more dangerous than COVID.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:30 PM | Reply

This is your country led by Trump.

At the same time conservatives are drooling about appointing another conservative SC justice so Roe vs Wade and the ACA can be overturned, a sizeable percentage of Trumpolodytes refuse to wear masks, which would save tens of thousands of lives.

Just another factoid to add to the ever expanding world of GOP hypocrisy.

#50 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-09-21 03:31 PM | Reply

"You live in a country that did that."

Really?

Germany did that?

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:32 PM | Reply

"For school-age children, they face a higher risk on the drive to school than they do from catching COVID once they get there."

Now do everyone students with COVID-19 spread it to.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:33 PM | Reply

#49 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2020-09-21 03:30 PM | FLAG: IGNORANT ---

The outcome figures are more important than the total number of people infected at this point. So far in the US when the disease has run it's course to recovery or not... one in 6 die... and that is serious.

ergo Madbummer. GFY

#53 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-09-21 03:35 PM | Reply

#49 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Why do you keep posting that nonsense?

The rates in the DoD personnel ranks is irrelevant.

As for kids, yes it's well established that they have very mild or no illness. However, they also have higher viral titers and spread it quite effectively to each other and their families.

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 03:38 PM | Reply

#16 | POSTED BY MAO_CONTENT AT 2020-09-21 01:26 PM

Damn that's grim.

#55 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-09-21 03:38 PM | Reply

"So far in the US when the disease has run it's course to recovery or not... one in 6 die... and that is serious."

Uhhh...what?

You seem to be stating that COVID will kill 16% of the population. Is this what you are saying?

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:40 PM | Reply

Damn that's grim.

#55 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Being part of cult means never admitting you've lost an argument.

#57 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 03:41 PM | Reply

"The rates in the DoD personnel ranks is irrelevant."

Why?

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:41 PM | Reply

DoD active duty militaty is not representative of the US population.

Not even of veterans.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:42 PM | Reply

The DoD loses, on average, about 400 Service members to training accidents each year. Using your logic, the DoD should suspend training, as training is approximately 5700% more dangerous than COVID.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at

I see what the local Air Force Base does when even ONE personnel tests positive for COVID. The place is cut off from the world and servicemen are given strict orders in regards to whom they can be with and do outside base. Specific permission is required for even civilian doctor appointments.

Absolutely no commitment to this herd immunity thing.

Isn't it about time to confess you're not Air Force?

#60 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 03:45 PM | Reply

"As for kids, yes it's well established that they have very mild or no illness. However, they also have higher viral titers and spread it quite effectively to each other and their families."

And how does that make what I posted any less true?

The Brits may be toying with the idea of shutting down bars and restaurants, but they've decided that kids attending school is safe. Kids aren't spreaders.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:46 PM | Reply

"And how does that make what I posted any less true?"

By making it irrelevant.

Your "truth" does not contain any actionable insight.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:49 PM | Reply

Kids aren't spreaders.

#61 | Posted by madbomber

Horsesh--.

#63 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 03:50 PM | Reply

"I see what the local Air Force Base does when even ONE personnel tests positive for COVID."

Yeah, it's kinda ridiculous. We had a young fighter pilot die back in June. Had he wanted to get a workout in prior to his final flight, he would not have been allowed to. Gyms were simply too dangerous.

We actually had two fighter pilots die back in June. But one was in the US. I can't say whether or not he would have been able to go to the gym or not.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:50 PM | Reply

I see what the local Air Force Base does when even ONE personnel tests positive for COVID.

They closed Bergstrom in 93, Zed.

You don't have a local air base.

#65 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-09-21 03:50 PM | Reply

Kids aren't spreaders.
#61 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Daughter spreading jokes aside:
*Citation Needed.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:51 PM | Reply

"Isn't it about time to confess you're not Air Force?"

For all you know, I could be an algorithm some adversary invented with the sole intent of bothering you.

But that doesn't change the COVID numbers within the DoD.

www.defense.gov

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:52 PM | Reply

You don't have a local air base.

#65 | Posted by Mao_Content

I don't live in Austin since I got my Doctorate, MAO. I am a proud member of the landed gentry in west Texas. Planning on ranching jujubes and generating wind power.

#68 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 03:52 PM | Reply

"Had he wanted to get a workout in prior to his final flight, he would not have been allowed to. Gyms were simply too dangerous."

Apparently flying was too dangerous too.
They just didn't know that at the time.
They don't have that excuse for COVID-19.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:53 PM | Reply

Horsesh--.

www.thesun.co.uk

www.thesun.co.uk

Not that anyone will read them...

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 03:54 PM | Reply

"But that doesn't change the COVID numbers within the DoD."

Did you notice the huge delta between active duty DoD case fatality rate and civilian DoD case fatality rate?

DoD or DOD? I can never be sure.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 03:56 PM | Reply

In the most comprehensive study of COVID-19 pediatric patients to date, researchers provide critical data showing that children play a larger role in the community spread of COVID-19 than previously thought.

In a study of 192 children ages 0-22, 49 children tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, and an additional 18 children had late-onset, COVID-19-related illness. The infected children were shown to have a significantly higher level of virus in their airways than hospitalized adults in ICUs for COVID-19 treatment, according to Harvard-affiliated Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) and Mass General Hospital for Children (MGHfC).

The study, "Pediatric SARS-CoV-2: Clinical Presentation, Infectivity, and Immune Reponses," was published today in The Journal of Pediatrics.

Harvard Gazette, 08/20/20

#72 | Posted by Zed at 2020-09-21 03:58 PM | Reply

"I can't say whether or not he would have been able to go to the gym or not."

how does that matter? What's the significance of going to the gym prior to a flight?

#73 | Posted by eberly at 2020-09-21 03:58 PM | Reply

"Did you notice the huge delta between active duty DoD case fatality rate and civilian DoD case fatality rate?"

Yes.

Generally, the civilian ranks within the DoD (GS) are former uniformed service members who retired and went on to get a GS position, normally doing the same thing they were doing during their last active duty assignment. But they're much older, generally speaking, than uniformed service members.

There are very few GS positions in the DoD that are not staffed by former Service Members.

#74 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 04:05 PM | Reply

"how does that matter? What's the significance of going to the gym prior to a flight?"

Gyms had been deemed too dangerous. Too much of a threat.

Flights had not.

#75 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-21 04:07 PM | Reply

75

sorry...I misinterpreted you to mean those pilots died from COVID

#76 | Posted by eberly at 2020-09-21 04:12 PM | Reply

Most shocking: 54% of surveyed republicans are OKAY with this figure.
Pro-life, my ---

#77 | Posted by e1g1 at 2020-09-21 04:20 PM | Reply

Not that anyone will read them...

#70 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Well...it's the sun. A tabloid...

In any case, neither of those links addresses the point.

The point is that children were once claimed to be less infected than adults and, therefore, it was safe to open schools.

However, that appears to have been an artifact of the testing bias. Because kids aren't as sick or don't develop severe disease as frequently, they weren't tested as frequently under current guidelines.

Studies addressing the very question of infection in kids have shown them to be just as susceptible to COVID as adults and, in some studies, produce more virus. In other words, opening schools will absolutely increase community spread.

#78 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-21 04:30 PM | Reply

Being part of cult means never admitting you've lost an argument.
#57 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2020-09-21 03:41 PM

No need to brag.

#79 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2020-09-21 04:34 PM | Reply

But what you can't do is maintain a functional society without spreading the virus.
{SNIP}

#38 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER A

Absolutely incorrect.

A functional society can easily be maintained.

1. Testing, testing, testing.
2. Masks and social distancing.
3. Isolation and contact tracing.
4. Testing, testing, testing.

#80 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-21 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The DoD loses, on average, about 400 Service members to training accidents each year. Using your logic, the DoD should suspend training, as training is approximately 5700% more dangerous than COVID.

#49 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

How many deaths would there be if the DoD didnt have stringent safety measures in place during training. Or if the Commander-in-Chief promoted drunk driving and juggling with live grenades?

#81 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-21 05:00 PM | Reply

Kids aren't spreaders.

#61 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Clearly, madbomber never had children, or been around children, or ever seen a child.

#82 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-09-21 05:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It was interesting listening to McMaster last night on 60 Minutes. I think he has some good ideas but I don't know if seeking to NOT be divisive is one of his better ones. I agree with the fact we have to start reconciling in this country and our current political status does nothing but weaken us. I agree with most of what he said. He talked about this a little too.

But back to the topic. Some Truth's are hard to accept and others are for some reason easy to ignore.

- Yes CV-19 is preventable or at least could be greatly reduced. Americans are too narcissistic to care about others and can't unite to do the right thing. Some of us should be greatly embarrassed.
- Comparisons to the Flu are kind of ignorant. Do you compare the flu to Polio? Maybe we should be comparing this to Polio as it is a better comparison. I mean there were a lot of mild Polio cases too right? But who remembers Polio...
- Keep in mind the both Influenza A and B's rate of mutation is much more rapid than CV-19.
- CV-19 killed more people in Michigan by the end of April than the flu did since 2000...
- Then there are the unexplained excess deaths in this country since the outbreak. A month ago that was roughly another 200k - and there were no indicators that number was not going to continue to grow.
- But what the deniers don't talk about at all are the millions left with serious complications not to mention out right disabilities. Hell even the likes of LSU won't let their healthy young football players who have even the most mild cases come back to play without a cardiac work up.

Look it is easy to deny how serious this is, especially if you only get your news from one spigot. The thing is Most other "developed" nations are taking this FAR more seriously than the US. The only exception I know of is Sweden. And yes people are tired of it. I hope the experts are wrong bout this winter.

#83 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-09-21 05:43 PM | Reply

Kids aren't spreaders.

Classic.

Here's some other flagrant lies:

Kids keep their hands to themselves

Kids don't fidget with their masks

Kids are highly disciplined killing machines.

Mendax flagrante for sure

#84 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-09-21 06:11 PM | Reply

Horsesh--.
www.thesun.co.uk
www.thesun.co.uk
Not that anyone will read them...

#70 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You cite a tabloid that most medical experts disagree with...that relies on one study...that was debunked already...

The article is several weeks old. Let's see how the UK fares now that their kids are back in school!

Cases are doubling every week? Guess they were wrong about kids not spreading it.

Here's Harvard with the latest research calling you an idiot:
news.harvard.edu

#85 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-09-21 06:42 PM | Reply

how does that matter? What's the significance of going to the gym prior to a flight?
#73 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It's called Faux Outrage over a thing that didn't happen, but could have, and that's more outrageous than the soldier actually dying in training.

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 06:46 PM | Reply

Gyms had been deemed too dangerous. Too much of a threat.
Flights had not.
#75 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

The pilot would still be alive if he had applied COVID-19 mitigation strategies and stayed six feet away from the ground.

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 06:49 PM | Reply

There are very few GS positions in the DoD that are not staffed by former Service Members.
#74 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Mine was an NSF position and very few of us were retired military. But those who were got to count their military service as government service for things like how much time off they get each year.

One guy was 38, just did 20 in the Army, so he was getting a full Army pension with another government pension in his back pocket for the next 27 years or so until retirement. Probably one of the best deals a working stiff can get.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 06:53 PM | Reply

Most shocking: 54% of surveyed republicans are OKAY with this figure.
Pro-life, my ---
#77 | POSTED BY E1G1

No, what's most shocking is that all of those -------- are OKAY with this figure increasing.

Especially if that means they no longer have to wear a mask, can go to the gym, and ---- random people at bars again.

#89 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-21 08:37 PM | Reply

250k by Christmas

Wtg Covid Christians!
You evangelical -----!

#90 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-09-21 09:10 PM | Reply

250K by XMas?
I'll bet the "over."

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-21 09:18 PM | Reply

"Kids aren't spreaders."

YOU LIE.
www.webmd.com

You can't pack extra virus in your nose and not be a spreader. That's not how science works.

#92 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-21 11:43 PM | Reply

"Well...it's the sun. A tabloid..."

This is the position the UK government and the NHS have taken with regards to children spreading the virus. Unlike the US, the UK determined that children should go back to school because the assessment was that they could do so safely. This was something that dominated the BBC news cycle several weeks ago, and stood in fairly stark contrast to what I perceived to be happening back in the US. Although it does seem like the more kids are going back to in-residence school in the US as well.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:04 AM | Reply

"Studies addressing the very question of infection in kids have shown them to be just as susceptible to COVID as adults and, in some studies, produce more virus. In other words, opening schools will absolutely increase community spread."

Given your chosen profession, I would encourage you to research the position of the UK government/NHS when it comes to the safety of children attending school. If you want to drill down into how they came to that conclusion, you're better suited to understand it than myself. I can only accurately present their conclusion.

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:08 AM | Reply

"A functional society can easily be maintained."

Not without holding the members of that society at risk. You can take all those steps and reduce risk, but so long as people interact with each other the virus will spread. And in reality, COVID does not appear to be nearly as virulent as the common flu. In 2018-2019, there were an estimated 35.5M ((31.3M " 44.9M) cases of flu, leading to 14M-21M medical visits, 490K of which required hospitalization. A little more than 34K died from the common flu that season.

#95 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:18 AM | Reply

"Here's some other flagrant lies:"

Your issue is not with me, champ. I'm simply restating the position of the UK government when it comes to their kids going back to school.

#96 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:19 AM | Reply

"- CV-19 killed more people in Michigan by the end of April than the flu did since 2000..."

Michigan has seen less than 3k deaths due to CV19. Flu killed more than 34K in the Us during the 2018-2019 flu season.

#97 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:21 AM | Reply

"You can't pack extra virus in your nose and not be a spreader. That's not how science works."

Apparently researchers in the US came to a different conclusion...

#98 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 01:22 AM | Reply

" Michigan has seen less than 3k deaths due to CV19. Flu killed more than 34K in the Us during the 2018-2019 flu season."

You're comparing one state to fifty states. Apples and atom bombs.

" Apparently researchers in the US came to a different conclusion..."

No, my webmd link proves just the opposite; and you're not citing a US study.

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-22 03:28 AM | Reply

"Michigan has seen less than 3k deaths due to CV19. Flu killed more than 34K in the Us during the 2018-2019 flu season."

Were the goalposts heavy, when you carried one from Lake Superior to the Pacific Ocean, and carried the other one from Lake Erie to the Atlantic Ocean?

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-22 04:02 AM | Reply

Tonight, I read here on DR about a guy I've known for 25 years. A Tea Party, right winger (who I learned tonight) had been posting anti-mask, 'hoax' comments about COVID-19 on Facebook, which I haven't logged into since January. It was on the thread here about an anti-masker who died of COVID that I found out it was him.

This will happen more and more. Eventually, maybe others like him will be forced to question their views.

Most Nashvillians have been pretty good about wearing masks, but you can spot the Trump idiots by who isn't wearing one.

#101 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-09-22 06:12 AM | Reply

This is the position the UK government and the NHS have taken with regards to children spreading the virus.

Holding up a country, the U.K., that surpasses the US in deaths and now just issued a "level 4 alert" for COVID-19, and is about to announce a whole set of restrictions, you aren't doing your argument any favor by quoting the U.K.

Oh, and #30. Again.

#102 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-22 06:54 AM | Reply

#94 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Nothing I read suggests the UK government's decision is based on the now defunct idea that kids don't spread COVID and from what I read there are two main pillars their decision is based on.

1. Decreasing COVID prevalence in the UK. I think this has changed since they released these guidelines and is likely to change as we move into fall.

2. They're placing a lot of faith in their testing and contact tracing capabilities.

The UK seems to be where I keep saying the US could and should be in order to be more open and unrestricted. We'll see how it plays out!

#103 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-22 10:01 AM | Reply

And in reality, COVID does not appear to be nearly as virulent as the common flu.

Absolutely, completely, 300% untrue. This statement is so far off from reality we need to measure the distance in light years.

In 2018-2019, there were an estimated 35.5M ((31.3M " 44.9M) cases of flu, leading to 14M-21M medical visits, 490K of which required hospitalization. A little more than 34K died from the common flu that season.

#95 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I'm really trying to see how you think the above description is worse than 7+ million cases resulting in 200+K deaths in only 6-7 months, especially since those are estimates and the COVID numbers are as real as it gets.

#104 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-22 10:06 AM | Reply

little more than 34K died from the common flu that season.

#95 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

34,000 died from the flu ?

Pikers.

We Americans died like by the hundreds of thousands like lemmings charging off a cliff. Weeeeeee! Only 15 cases! Soon to be zero!!

Weeeeeee!!!

It will disappear like magic!

Weeeeeeee!

And so now...here we are... It will be another 4-500000 American deaths before this "season" is over. And then more to come after that every day. Every month every year.

Because criminally negligent Impeached Trumpy decided to let the virus "wash over us" so we would get some of that sweet sweet "Herd Mentality".

GFYS deplorable.

#105 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-22 11:17 AM | Reply

"You're comparing one state to fifty states. Apples and atom bombs."

I'm not comparing anything. GalaxiePete had stated that COVID had killed more people in Michigan by April than the flu had since 2000. Demonstrably untrue.

#106 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 12:30 PM | Reply

"No, my webmd link proves just the opposite; and you're not citing a US study."

Fair enough.

Must be that there is some physiological difference between kids in the UK and kids in the US that limits the ability of the UK kids to spread germs. Or at least the coronavirus.

#107 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 12:31 PM | Reply

"Holding up a country, the U.K., that surpasses the US in deaths and now just issued a "level 4 alert" for COVID-19, and is about to announce a whole set of restrictions, you aren't doing your argument any favor by quoting the U.K."

I'm not really making an argument. What I'm doing is pointing out that authorities in the UK determined that there was insufficient risk to justify not sending children back to school, and that was based on their assessment that kids were low-risk spreaders.

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 12:34 PM | Reply

that was based on their assessment that kids were low-risk spreaders.

#108 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So it was based on a lie.

Brilliant.

#109 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-22 12:36 PM | Reply

#108 - and now what's happening in the UK? What did Johnson just announce?

#110 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-22 01:18 PM | Reply

"So it was based on a lie."

I'll let you take the issue of whether or not it is a lie with the UK government.

"and now what's happening in the UK? What did Johnson just announce?"

That schools should remain open, even in the event of a second wave. I think...I'll let you tell me if I'm wrong.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 02:39 PM | Reply

Listen ladies, no one is telling you not to hunker down and avoid interaction with other people. If someone is telling you that you're legally obligated to interact with other members of society, that's something that needs to be identified. Because so far I'm not aware of any such order.

#112 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-22 02:41 PM | Reply

Listen ladies?

Grow the ---- up already.

#113 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-22 02:54 PM | Reply

Only a total douchebag would actually grade himself - and give an A+ - in an evaluation of his efforts.

Trump never gets it, and never will.

His comeuppance is arriving, and arriving soon.

#114 | Posted by brass30 at 2020-09-22 04:25 PM | Reply

Every action Trump took made Covid worse in the US. Worst leader in US history.

#115 | Posted by bored at 2020-09-22 05:00 PM | Reply

I'll let you tell me if I'm wrong.

#111 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

How generous of you. You will let us use your words against you. Like that will help anyone after the fact.

How does that help all the Americans that will be infected and die and families destroyed because of your Maga ignorance?

#116 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-23 10:26 AM | Reply

"How does that help all the Americans that will be infected and die and families destroyed because of your Maga ignorance?"

First, the point of discussion was the UK's response. You posted that their response was based on a lie. Is that just your opinion, or did you conduct a peer review of their response option? Not that it would be a peer review, given that you likely are as much a disease specialist as I am.

#117 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-23 12:55 PM | Reply

"How does that help all the Americans that will be infected and die and families destroyed because of your Maga ignorance?"

I don't know how the UK's response would have any impact on anyone in the US. Do you?

Maybe don't go to the UK if you think that it would put you at risk. But then again, if you're worried about it, you shouldn't be going anywhere. The only Americans who will contract the disease are those who expose themselves to that risk.

#118 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-23 12:57 PM | Reply

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