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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, September 26, 2020

Around one thousand supporters of the right-wing Proud Boys group, some armed, rallied in Portland, Oregon on Saturday in a largely peaceful event that drew far fewer followers than had been forecast by organizers, police said.

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So...Portland has been burning every night for months due to Actual antifa violence. Now it's a state of emergency because someone other than a left-wing group wants to hold a rally?

Maybe the proudboys will do the city a favor and suppress the nightly city burnings.

Why are righties such hyperbolic -----?

The riots in any city aren't the sacking of Rome. Stop making it sound like it.

And nice way to dodge this. An overtly racist, violent group is converging on a city to "end domestic terrorism" and all you care about is some puling whine about lefties.

Just admit you condone it or stop being such an idiot.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-26 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

white supremacist groups" were travelling from out of state to attend

I'm sure Bunker Bitch will be quick to criticize these outside agitators.

#2 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-09-26 01:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#1 Proud Boys are multi-ethnic. It was founded in 2017 to oppose Antifa. All you have to do to join is believe in Western culture - so you can't be a Nazi or a commie.

They have a home page if you want to read about them.

#3 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-09-26 03:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 6

"And nice way to dodge this. An overtly racist, violent group is converging on a city to "end domestic terrorism" and all you care about is some puling whine about lefties."

Uhh...the club president is an Afro-Cuban.

Do you think he wants to suppress African Americans, Latino Americans, or both?

#4 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-26 03:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

"All you have to do to join is believe in Western culture - so you can't be a Nazi or a commie."

So...they don't allow socialists...

Therein lies the problem.

#5 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-26 03:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

H-Rat is a Proud Boy apologist.

Duly noted.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

Yeah, only admits men into its ranks as well.

Truly the group we want representing American culture.

#7 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#6 you deserve Antifa.

#8 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-09-26 03:12 PM | Reply

H-Rat, your description of the Proud Boys is amazingly short sighted. Just skimming their Wiki page exposes far more nuance than you are suggesting.

Are they the KKK? Nope. But that didn't mitigate the racially fueled demonstrations in Charlottesville.

The Proud Boys are a violent, ultra-nationalist group that promotes anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, and anti-woman views. Although the group officially rejects white supremacy, members have nonetheless appeared at multiple racist events, with a former Proud Boy organizing the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. The group rallies around anti-left violence, and members of Proud Boy chapters in the Pacific Northwest have participated in public marches while wearing shirts that glorify the murders of leftists by Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.

www.thedailybeast.com

Anyways, clearly, they don't believe that All Black Lives Matter: news.yahoo.com

How about a little nuance to your posts? Just because someone is nonwhite doesn't make them a fnkcing saint.

#9 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:21 PM | Reply

#8 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

OOOooooohhhh...that cut deeeeeep.

Pffft hhahahaha!

#10 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:21 PM | Reply

"Yeah, only admits men into its ranks as well. Truly the group we want representing American culture."

Fair enough.

Are you equally wiling to critique all groups that aren't multicultural and don't consider sex as a condition for membership or inclusion?

#11 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-26 03:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Uhh...the club president is an Afro-Cuban.
Do you think he wants to suppress African Americans, Latino Americans, or both?
#4 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

If you're referring to Enrique Tarrio, he attended the Charlottesville march. Maybe that's a legitimate question to ask him.

#12 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:25 PM | Reply

"Are you equally wiling to critique all groups"

Classic Whataboutism.
With an Appeal to Hypocrisy cherry on top.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-26 03:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Are you equally wiling to critique all groups that aren't multicultural and don't consider sex as a condition for membership or inclusion?
#11 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I'm certainly not against it.

You're conversing with someone steeped in the methods of criminology. Nuance is definitely my forte.

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:27 PM | Reply

BTW, MADBOMBER -

Haven't you realized yet? Hypocrisy is a nonstarter for credible criticism in 2020.

Or did the memo not reach your German desk.

#15 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If you're referring to Enrique Tarrio, he attended the Charlottesville march. Maybe that's a legitimate question to ask him."

Ask an Afro-Cuban if he's a white supremacist?

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-26 03:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Classic Whataboutism. With an Appeal to Hypocrisy cherry on top."

Not sure what you mean? Is exclusion OK with some groups? But not with others?

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-26 03:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Rsty - I'm afraid to ask this, however I am going to; have you watched "The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch" and do you hate me now? :)

"...Proud Boy chapters in the Pacific Northwest have participated in public marches while wearing shirts that glorify the murders of leftists by Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet."

That explains Mao's posting the other day on the nooner Today I'm grateful for Augusto Pinochet and his magic helicopter rides. He's a Proud Boy. Makes total sense, too.

#18 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-26 03:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Ask an Afro-Cuban if he's a white supremacist?
#16 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Considering his affiliation, yes. Absolutely a legitimate question to ask him, IMO.

You seem to be the one making assumptions. You're assuming, based on his ethnicity and heritage that he would not be. Normally, I'd say that's a safe assumption, but an assumption nonetheless.

A safe presumption would have been made had he not been affiliated with the group in Charlottesville. But he was there, hence, the question has a foundation to it. Granted, odds are he would laugh and say "Hey man, I'm an Afro-Cuban. That should say it all." To which, I would respond, 'fair enough.'

That does not subsume the question is illegitimate, however. Wouldn't you agree?

#19 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Rsty - I'm afraid to ask this, however I am going to; have you watched "The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch" and do you hate me now? :)
#18 | POSTED BY YAV

I've watched/read/listened to many things specific to Skinwalker Ranch. If I looked it up, odds are it was something that I watched, so I'm going to answer by saying "more than likely, yes."

And do I hate you now? More now than ever. Why do you ask?

#21 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:50 PM | Reply

Not sure where they got it from, but I have some amazing young women...
#20 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I wouldn't doubt it.

:)

#22 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:50 PM | Reply

And do I hate you now? More now than ever. Why do you ask?

LMAO!
Thanks...

#23 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-26 03:54 PM | Reply

#23 | POSTED BY YAV

Sincerely, why did you ask? I'm deeply fascinated by all these things, but there are components of the Skinwalker Ranch phenomena that truly give me pause.

#24 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 03:59 PM | Reply

Ah - on a previous thread a few weeks ago I said that the series "The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch" on History Channel surprised me and I found myself captivated by what they encountered. You said based on what I said you'd watch it and hold me responsible. That's the story. :)

#25 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-26 04:11 PM | Reply

Ok, I've got it on my list for the weekend.

Appreciate your dedication.

#26 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-09-26 04:22 PM | Reply

So the Proud Boofs want to stop domestic terrorism? Maybe they should stay home then since THEY are the domestic terrorists.

#27 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-09-26 05:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Not sure what you mean? Is exclusion OK with some groups? But not with others?"

^
It's okay if you're striving to make the
Appeal to Hypocrisy logical fallacy.

But if you're not trying to make a logical fallacy, then it's irrelevant.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-26 06:09 PM | Reply

- THEY are the domestic terrorists.

Which even Homeland Sec has had to admit, calling white supremacists our greatest threat in Domestic Terrorism, as they have been for a very long time.

People like MB and others here who are more concerned about a handful of anti-Fascists than they are a Fascist segment of the population, who are our greatest threat AND have a friend in the WH, have already shown their true colors.

#29 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-26 06:21 PM | Reply

"President Donald Trump's nominee to lead the agency in charge of curbing domestic terrorism told senators that White supremacists have become the "most persistent and lethal threat" to the U.S. from within the country.

"White supremacist extremists, from a lethality standpoint over the last two years, particularly when you look at 2018 and 2019, are certainly the most persistent and lethal threat when we talk about domestic violent extremists," said Chad Wolf, who has been heading the Department of Homeland Security in an acting capacity since late last year."

The response is notable considering that Trump and Attorney General William Barr have sought to portray the nation as besieged by "left-wing" agitators fomenting violence in protests over racial injustice. After a series of attacks blamed on racism and bigotry in 2019, Trump told reporters that he doesn't consider "white nationalism" to be a growing problem.

www.bloomberg.com

But at least our rwingers here are following Trump's orders.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-26 06:24 PM | Reply

Lol @ Portland burning for months... try kids shooting fireworks at a courthouse... calm down snowflake... even my 19 yr old daughter feels safe in the city so man up buttercup.

And it true the neo nazis are having a super spreader event up in North Portland.... looked liked a bunch of old bikers and rode hard meth chicks... go MAGA

No surprise some of the DR locals seem to know all about the proud boys.

#31 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2020-09-26 06:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

They have a home page if you want to read about them.

#3 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT AT 2020-09-26 03:04 PM | FLAG:

Does it include the part where the founder ran away fleeing from it when it went off the rails and was hijacked by nuts?

#32 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-09-26 08:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Lol @ Portland burning for months... try kids shooting fireworks at a courthouse... calm down snowflake... even my 19 yr old daughter feels safe in the city so man up buttercup.
And it true the neo nazis are having a super spreader event up in North Portland.... looked liked a bunch of old bikers and rode hard meth chicks... go MAGA
No surprise some of the DR locals seem to know all about the proud boys.
#31 | POSTED BY 503JC69 AT 2020-09-26 06:51 PM | FLAG: (CHOOSE) | NEWSWORTHY 2

Truth.

Proud Boys have also consistently brought guns to Portland's otherwise peaceful protests. Perhaps that's a better barometer of their true intention, other than fronting as a Western construct to impose a worldview from 70 years ago. Racist mobs have existed long before these bitches insemination.

Antifa are police, anti-progressive agitators, bigots and violent opportunists, so naturally they attract more fascists like Evangelicals who practice a profane mockery of Christianity. I guess they do share a lot with Nazi ideals, but I won't disrespect their tight shirt pant combo - very Hugo Boss.

I'm so curious what they are hoping to gain other than notoriety. Any real outreach would have happened by now, their crapfest seems like a tailgate party for Hitler Youth.

#33 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-09-26 08:33 PM | Reply

Is the Proud Boys' black and yellow polo shirt out now because of BLM?

That's SWEET!

#34 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-26 09:49 PM | Reply

All hat and no cattle...

#35 | Posted by horstngraben at 2020-09-26 10:42 PM | Reply

Uhh...the club president is an Afro-Cuban.

Do you think he wants to suppress African Americans, Latino Americans, or both?

#4 | Posted by madbomber

Ahhh the old "I have a black friend so I can't be racist" type argument.

Doesn't change the fact that they're all about being a white male chauvinists, which is why they recruit pathetic incels with a victim complex.

Why do you feel the need to have their backs?

#36 | Posted by jpw at 2020-09-26 10:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"the club president is an Afro-Cuban."

And BillJohnson is anti-gay. And Boaz is anti-black. Do you have an actual point?

#38 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-26 10:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Around one thousand supporters of the right-wing Proud Boys group..."

Most reports put the numbers at less than 500.

#39 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-09-26 11:05 PM | Reply

"the club president is an Afro-Cuban."

Blacks sold other blacks into slavery.
High five Boaz!

The way you're slobbering all over that dog whistle, your should change your handle to Maonica Lewisnky.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-26 11:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"People like MB and others here who are more concerned about a handful of anti-Fascists than they are a Fascist segment of the population, who are our greatest threat AND have a friend in the WH, have already shown their true colors."

Here's how I view it. Generally speaking, White Supremacist groups have been the ones that were plotting mass casualty attacks. But those events were very rare. On the other hand, the left has not appeared to want to cause any sort of mass casualty event since the 1960s when the Weather Underground was active. But they do engage in non-lethal violent activities on a daily basis.

And if the FBI feels that the Proud Boys represent a potential threat to the safety of the public, they should be monitoring them. But they should also being monitoring antifa and trying to collect as much as they can on that network as well, because they've proven themselves to be a threat to public safety.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-27 04:17 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Doesn't change the fact that they're all about being a white male chauvinists, which is why they recruit pathetic incels with a victim complex."

They label themselves as "western chauvinist." And anti-racist. I'm not sure where the whole white supremacist thing is coming from.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-27 04:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I did stumble across this article. You might find it interesting:

www.thedailybeast.com

"Patriot Prayer's leader is half-Japanese. Black and brown faces march with the Proud Boys. Is the future of hate multicultural?"

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-27 04:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Why do you feel the need to have their backs?"

What do you mean "have their backs."

I support their right to rally peacefully in Portland. Don't you?

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-27 04:26 AM | Reply

"But they should also being monitoring antifa"

Whatabout antifa.

You're getting kinda boring.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 05:32 AM | Reply

"Whatabout antifa."

Whatabout Proud Boys?

How do you think has set more dumpsters on fire?

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-27 07:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Here's how I view it."

LOL!!!

How you view it is how a moron views it.

Your stupidity is appalling.

#47 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-09-27 09:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Portland police search for white man who kicked Black journalist in the head at Proud Boys' rally

www.rawstory.com

This is typical for feral trumpers.

#48 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2020-09-27 09:33 AM | Reply

"All you have to do to join is believe in Western culture -"

American Culture exists whether you "believe in it" or not. You don't need to be in a Club to do that.

What do they plan do about all the other cultures of the world. Not believe in them?

Pretend they don't exist? Absorb them? Crush them? Live with them in peace (my idea of a club).

What ever happened to the melting pot that made America?

Did it overheat and melt?

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-27 10:22 AM | Reply

Proud Toddlers

#50 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-09-27 10:41 AM | Reply

How do you think has set more dumpsters on fire?
#46 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

What ever happened to the melting pot that made America?
#49 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Hmmm...

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 11:58 AM | Reply

P.S. In sixty grade Social Studies our teacher said "melting pot" was a bad analogy, since were more like a salad bowl. A melting pot pretty much does away with diversity. But people don't give up all links to their past generations, no matter what culture they are from, or there wouldn't be places like Chinatown, or trailer parks.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 12:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Here's how I view it.

www.reddit.com

Yes, we know.

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-27 01:37 PM | Reply

"Here's how I view it. Generally speaking, Islamist groups have been the ones that were plotting mass casualty attacks. But those events were very rare."

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 01:37 PM | Reply

Ouch!

#55 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-27 01:43 PM | Reply

If you like Proud Boys, go find their website and hang out there. Don't use this site to whitewash a violent white nationalist hate group that attended Unite the Right at Charlottesville and chanted "Jews Will Not Replace Us!"

#56 | Posted by rcade at 2020-09-27 05:42 PM | Reply

"Don't use this site to whitewash a violent white nationalist hate group"

Actually they're gonna keep doing exactly that.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 05:45 PM | Reply

Here's the Anti-Defamation League on the Proud Boys:

www.adl.org

#58 | Posted by rcade at 2020-09-27 05:56 PM | Reply

Hey I recently was working < 1 mile from there. It's an industrial area next to swampland, an expo center, and homeless camps. Basically they got pushed to the *ss end of Portland that nobody goes to unless they have to. That's actually pretty hilarious. Portland is not on fire, lol.

#59 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-27 06:26 PM | Reply

Oh yeah, some grimy strip clubs and bikini coffee joints. Also lots of trucks and some burning trash.

#60 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-27 06:28 PM | Reply

"No borders, no wall, no USA at all."

Ahem, also pictured.

"No pedo hate."

#61 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-09-27 07:00 PM | Reply

Bikini coffee joints? How did Florida not think of that first?

#62 | Posted by rcade at 2020-09-27 07:03 PM | Reply

The bikini coffee joints in Seattle got shut down by the prudes... apparently it was a great way for strippers to pick up some morning shifts...

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 07:06 PM | Reply

We do not however have strip clubs where you can get nickel drafts. Or any alcohol whatsoever, for that matter.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-27 07:07 PM | Reply

Bikini coffee joints? How did Florida not think of that first?

#65 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-27 09:02 PM | Reply

Dibblda - is The Acropolis still operating?

#66 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-27 09:04 PM | Reply

The Pointy-Headed Boys.

#67 | Posted by Jaspar at 2020-09-27 09:11 PM | Reply

"Dibblda - is The Acropolis still operating?"

No idea, but I was living in east Portland and on the way to work there was the neighborhood strip club, 24 hour place. Right next to it was a billboard with a picture of a kid and the words "Mom's got a job, now we have a place to call home". Lol. Really hilarious or sad billboard placement.

I just moved back to OC, California unfortunately. Portland rocks.

#68 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-28 12:39 AM | Reply

"Bikini coffee joints? How did Florida not think of that first?"

Yeah pretty amazing honestly. They are little drive through places. The dress varies between bikinis and pasties. Respect, Portland is cold during the winter.

#69 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-09-28 12:41 AM | Reply

Acropolis is still open...I have never been inside but me and the wife use the food take out window around back alot... love them steak bites.

#70 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2020-09-28 05:32 AM | Reply

Bikini coffee joints? How did Florida not think of that first?

#62 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2020-09-27 07:03 PM | FLAG:

They'd make it illegal. Remember the T-back bikini hot dog carts in Tampa that kept causing rubberneckers to wreck? Politics put an end to that quickly.

#71 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-09-28 08:30 AM | Reply

Thanks 503JC69.

#72 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-28 09:27 AM | Reply

They all look like they need showers

#73 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-09-28 12:57 PM | Reply

"Don't use this site to whitewash a violent white nationalist hate group that attended Unite the Right at Charlottesville and chanted "Jews Will Not Replace Us!"

"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech.

Noam Chomsky.

Whether you like or dislike the views of any person or group is immaterial. Under the law, they all have the right to congregate peacefully. This is your website, so you can limit what people or groups participate here as much as you like.

The original intent when I posted the article (which is not the one currently linked) had to do with Kate Brown declaring a state of emergency in response to the Proud Boy rally. Why? Rioters had been setting the city on fire nightly for four months. Yet this warranted a state of emergency when that didn't?

In fact on the night that the Proud Boy event took place, Portland Police yet again declared an unlawful gather in downtown Portland after rioters threw rocks and fireworks at Police officers. But as you can see in JPW's post that kicked this thing off, there seem to be those that feel violent groups with the right ideals are preferable to non-violent groups with the wrong ideals.

#74 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 02:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

MB quoting Chomsky... that's a laugh riot of desperation.

Goebbels and Stalin were similarly powerful and influential, antifa and white supremacists in this country are nowhere near similarly powerful number nor influential with friends in the White House.

Neither are they similarly dangerous to our nation as domestic terrorists, according to both the FBI and Homeland Security.

This is just more of the idiotic "they are all the same" meme used by people who know better.

#75 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 02:27 PM | Reply

"This is just more of the idiotic "they are all the same" meme used by people who know better."

I'm not sure what you're saying? White Supremacists and Antifa should be ignored?

Peaceful groups should be ignored, regardless of what views they hold. Violent Groups should be tracked and monitored, regardless of what views they hold.

Antifa is most definitely violent, as we see night after night after night.

I wonder if Vegas is taking bets on when the riots will end in Portland?

#76 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Chomsky, in case you didn't know, is fairly well known for his left-wing views. He was recently signatory to a statement in Harper's magazine criticizing cancel culture. And it was those on the left who went after him.

Chomsky is well-known for his defense of free speech-even speech he did not like or agree with. He once defended a Holocaust denier's right to speak.

George Orwell, a similarly committed socialist, was also known for defending free speech.

I don't know that either gentleman would find a warm welcome in today's left. I guess we could add you to Chomsky's list of people who aren't in favor of free speech.

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 02:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"George Orwell, a similarly committed socialist, was also known for defending free speech."

"Free speech" is not really the same thing as chanting Nazi slogans.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 02:46 PM | Reply

"I guess we could add you to Chomsky's list of people who aren't in favor of free speech."

You fascists just loooove to put people's names on lists...
What's the list for?
???

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 02:49 PM | Reply

- I'm not sure what you're saying?

Then you are not as bright as one might have supposed.

I'm saying what I said, one group is much more dangerous to our nation than the other and much more widespread and influential , according to the experts.

It's just that that fact doesn't confirm your political bias.

You'd rather focus on a handful of overzealous antifascists in one city than the real national threat of domestic terrorism by actual fascists.

#80 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 02:50 PM | Reply

"Free speech" is not really the same thing as chanting Nazi slogans."

Really?

How is it different?

Is it just National Socialist slogans that are off-limits, or would all socialist slogans fall under the "not free speech" banner.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 02:57 PM | Reply

- Chomsky, in case you didn't know,

Apparently you are completely oblivious to what other long-time posters know.

Not to mention about what Chomsky thinks....

"The popular reaction to the gruesome Floyd murder has been astonishing in its national scope, fervent commitment and interracial solidarity," observed the philosopher and social critic Noam Chomsky. "The malignancy that infects the White House has been exposed in all its ugliness."

www.theguardian.com

Noam Chomsky on Trump's Troop Surge to Democratic Cities & Whether He'll Leave Office If He Loses

"President Trump is desperate," says world-renowned dissident, professor Noam Chomsky in an extended interview that begins with President Trump's vow to send a "surge" of federal agents into major Democrat-run cities across the United States.

"His entire attention is this one issue on his mind: That's the election. He has to cover up for the fact he's personally responsible for killing tens of thousands of Americans. It's impossible to conceal that for much longer."

www.democracynow.org

#82 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 02:59 PM | Reply

"I'm saying what I said, one group is much more dangerous to our nation than the other and much more widespread and influential , according to the experts."

Did I argue with that?

Like I said, I don't care what their beliefs are. If they represent a threat to the safety and security of this country, then it is the role the nation's security apparatus to collect and monitor them.

And that includes your overzealous anti-fascists who will inevitably riot again tonight in Portland.

#83 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Free speech" is not really the same thing as chanting Nazi slogans."

"Really?
How is it different?"

In the same way that Nazism is not the same thing as freedom.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:03 PM | Reply

"You'd rather focus on a handful of overzealous antifascists in one city than the real national threat of domestic terrorism by actual fascists."

fascists, huh?

George Orwell: "What is Fascism?"

Of all the unanswered questions of our time, perhaps the most important is: What is Fascism?'

One of the social survey organizations in America recently asked this question of a hundred different people, and got answers ranging from pure democracy' to pure diabolism'. In this country if you ask the average thinking person to define Fascism, he usually answers by pointing to the German and Italian rgimes. But this is very unsatisfactory, because even the major Fascist states differ from one another a good deal in structure and ideology.

It is not easy, for instance, to fit Germany and Japan into the same framework, and it is even harder with some of the small states which are describable as Fascist. It is usually assumed, for instance, that Fascism is inherently warlike, that it thrives in an atmosphere of war hysteria and can only solve its economic problems by means of war preparation or foreign conquests. But clearly this is not true of, say, Portugal or the various South American dictatorships.

Or again, antisemitism is supposed to be one of the distinguishing marks of Fascism; but some Fascist movements are not antisemitic. Learned controversies, reverberating for years on end in American magazines, have not even been able to determine whether or not Fascism is a form of capitalism. But still, when we apply the term Fascism' to Germany or Japan or Mussolini's Italy, we know broadly what we mean. It is in internal politics that this word has lost the last vestige of meaning. For if you examine the press you will find that there is almost no set of people " certainly no political party or organized body of any kind " which has not been denounced as Fascist during the past ten years. Here I am not speaking of the verbal use of the term Fascist'. I am speaking of what I have seen in print. I have seen the words Fascist in sympathy', or of Fascist tendency', or just plain Fascist', applied in all seriousness to the following bodies of people:

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:03 PM | Reply

onservatives: All Conservatives, appeasers or anti-appeasers, are held to be subjectively pro-Fascist. British rule in India and the Colonies is held to be indistinguishable from Nazism. Organizations of what one might call a patriotic and traditional type are labelled crypto-Fascist or Fascist-minded'. Examples are the Boy Scouts, the Metropolitan Police, M.I.5, the British Legion. Key phrase: The public schools are breeding-grounds of Fascism'.

Socialists: Defenders of old-style capitalism (example, Sir Ernest Benn) maintain that Socialism and Fascism are the same thing. Some Catholic journalists maintain that Socialists have been the principal collaborators in the Nazi-occupied countries. The same accusation is made from a different angle by the Communist party during its ultra-Left phases. In the period 1930-35 the Daily Worker habitually referred to the Labour Party as the Labour Fascists. This is echoed by other Left extremists such as Anarchists. Some Indian Nationalists consider the British trade unions to be Fascist organizations.

Communists: A considerable school of thought (examples, Rauschning, Peter Drucker, James Burnham, F. A. Voigt) refuses to recognize a difference between the Nazi and Soviet rgimes, and holds that all Fascists and Communists are aiming at approximately the same thing and are even to some extent the same people. Leaders in The Times (pre-war) have referred to the U.S.S.R. as a Fascist country'. Again from a different angle this is echoed by Anarchists and Trotskyists.

Trotskyists: Communists charge the Trotskyists proper, i.e. Trotsky's own organization, with being a crypto-Fascist organization in Nazi pay. This was widely believed on the Left during the Popular Front period. In their ultra-Right phases the Communists tend to apply the same accusation to all factions to the Left of themselves, e.g. Common Wealth or the I.L.P.

Catholics: Outside its own ranks, the Catholic Church is almost universally regarded as pro-Fascist, both objectively and subjectively;

War resisters: Pacifists and others who are anti-war are frequently accused not only of making things easier for the Axis, but of becoming tinged with pro-Fascist feeling.

Supporters of the war: War resisters usually base their case on the claim that British imperialism is worse than Nazism, and tend to apply the term Fascist' to anyone who wishes for a military victory. The supporters of the People's Convention came near to claiming that willingness to resist a Nazi invasion was a sign of Fascist sympathies. The Home Guard was denounced as a Fascist organization as soon as it appeared. In addition, the whole of the Left tends to equate militarism with Fascism. Politically conscious private soldiers nearly always refer to their officers as Fascist-minded' or natural Fascists'. Battle-schools, spit and polish, saluting of officers are all considered conducive to Fascism. Before the war, joining the Territorials was regarded as a sign of Fascist tendencies. Conscription and a professional army are both denounced as Fascist phenomena.

Nationalists: Nationalism is universally regarded as inherently Fascist, but this is held only to apply to such national movements as the speaker happens to disapprove of. Arab nationalism, Polish nationalism, Finnish nationalism, the Indian Congress Party, the Muslim League, Zionism, and the I.R.A. are all described as Fascist but not by the same people.

#86 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:04 PM | Reply

-Lol @ Portland burning for months... try kids shooting fireworks at a courthouse... calm down snowflake... even my 19 yr old daughter feels safe in the city so man up buttercup.

And it true the neo nazis are having a super spreader event up in North Portland.... looked liked a bunch of old bikers and rode hard meth chicks... go MAGA

No surprise some of the DR locals seem to know all about the proud boys.

#31 | POSTED BY 503JC69 AT 2020-09-26 06:51 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)
| NEWSWORTHY 4

Your concern about antifascists and your total lack thereof about actual fascists has long been noted.

#87 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:04 PM | Reply

"But as you can see in JPW's post that kicked this thing off, there seem to be those that feel violent groups with the right ideals are preferable to non-violent groups with the wrong ideals."

It's true, lots of people prefer football to curling.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:05 PM | Reply

"In the same way that Nazism is not the same thing as freedom."

So, it appears that you're making the claim that freedom of speech should be measured against the contents of the speech itself.

Would it follow that bad free speech be prohibited?

Did I miss that part of the 1st amendment?

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:06 PM | Reply

"Fascism

Fascism (/f ... z'm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy[3] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[4] The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries.[4]

Opposed to liberalism, Marxism, and anarchism, fascism is placed on the far right within the traditional left"right spectrum.[4][5][6]"

en.wikipedia.org

Modern scholarship is in agreement on these points.

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:07 PM | Reply

"Your concern about antifascists and your total lack thereof about actual fascists has long been noted."

As has your lack of concern.

I guess throwing IEDs and shooting lasers at police officers is OK? It doesn't seem to bother you too much.

Would it bother you if it were "fascists" throwing IEDs and shooting lasers at cops?

#91 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:07 PM | Reply

"Some Catholic journalists maintain that Socialists have been the principal collaborators in the Nazi-occupied countries."

Martin Niemoller on line #1 for you....

#92 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-28 03:08 PM | Reply

Link to the full Orwell piece:

www.orwell.ru

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:08 PM | Reply

- So, it appears that you're making the claim that freedom of speech should be measured against the contents of the speech itself.

Yelling "Fire" in a non-burning theatre is unlawful, yelling "Watermelons" is not.

And that fact is in no way a creeping death of Free Speech.

#94 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:09 PM | Reply

"Conservatives: All Conservatives, appeasers or anti-appeasers, are held to be subjectively pro-Fascist"

For example, there's MadBomber, who cheerleads the fascist's dream that America is not a Democracy, and can't even explain what we're voting for, or why.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Would it follow that bad free speech be prohibited?"

"Bad speech."
You mean like kiddie porn?
It already is prohibited.
So, do we have free speech or not?
You tell us, MadBomber.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:12 PM | Reply

- Would it bother you if it were "fascists"

Were considered by far the number one domestic terrorism concern by the FBI and DHS?

Why, yes, it does.

Why it doesn't concern you is... unsurprising.

Perhaps that other poster's 19 year old daughter could hold your hand and protect you if you have to walk through Portland, lmao.

#97 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:12 PM | Reply

"And that fact is in no way a creeping death of Free Speech."

And that in no way is like a rally full of socialists talking about socialist stuff.

But you know that.

#98 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:13 PM | Reply

- a rally full of socialists talking about socialist stuff

Is what really scares you silly.

"OMG! We might become like the happiest people in the world in democratic socialist Denmark!"

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:15 PM | Reply

"Why it doesn't concern you is... unsurprising."

Oh, no sir.

if it were skinheads downtown throwing IEDs and shooting lasers at cops, I'd be equally upset.

I just don't get why you're not. The only thing I can conclude is that you've sided with them.

#100 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:16 PM | Reply

Or maybe it's Finland this year, lol.

#101 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:16 PM | Reply

"Is what really scares you silly."

Me?

You're the one who has spent the last few minutes arguing against free speech.

Or at least the free speech that you don't like.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-28 03:17 PM | Reply

#100

Yes, one remembers your outrage over Charlotte... oh, wait....

I think that 19 year old girl is still available to walk you through Portland, btw.

#103 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:18 PM | Reply

- against free speech.

Now you are just lying.

Maybe you are one of those neo-Nazis the US Military is trying to get rid of?

#104 | Posted by Corky at 2020-09-28 03:19 PM | Reply

USMC personnel can no longer fly the Confederate flag.

RIP Free Speech!

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Did I miss that part of the 1st amendment?
#89 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You missed the part where the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment have to be balanced against other guaranteed rights.

That's the part you always miss, kiddo.

Because everything has to be black and white for you.

No electioneering within 100 feet of the polling place?
RIP Free Speech!

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:32 PM | Reply

"If they represent a threat to the safety and security of this country, then it is the role the nation's security apparatus to collect and monitor them."

Can speech be threat to the safety and security of this country?

Edward Snowden for example, was his speech illegal?

RIP First Amendment!

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-28 03:34 PM | Reply

"if it were skinheads downtown throwing IEDs and shooting lasers at cops, I'd be equally upset."

You don't know that it's not.

I've posted this before, but a good friend went to multiple nights of BLM protests in my city. He said numerous times someone not in their group would show up, throw something, then run away. He also noted several of them were wearing Hawaiian shirts.

#108 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-28 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"He also noted several of them were wearing Hawaiian shirts."

meaning what?

#109 | Posted by eberly at 2020-09-28 04:06 PM | Reply

It's supposed to mean you're a boog boy.

but..
The Aloha Shirt Is Bigger Than the Boogaloo Movement

#110 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-09-28 04:48 PM | Reply

It's supposed to mean you're a boog boy

Well, that--

And tracers load in my magazines....as I fill the lawn sprinklers with gasoline

#111 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2020-09-28 05:09 PM | Reply

#110 -but...

Not sure what you're saying, but that sure confirms the tie to the Boogboiz. They lament them poisoning their business and tainting the shirt like the Yakuza did.

#112 | Posted by YAV at 2020-09-28 06:20 PM | Reply

"You missed the part where the rights guaranteed by the First Amendment have to be balanced against other guaranteed rights."

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So...here's the first amendment.

What other "guaranteed rights" are being abridged when a group conducts a peaceful assembly?

#113 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 01:03 AM | Reply

"You don't know that it's not."

I don't know that it's not. And it really doesn't matter.

Whatever group it is that's throwing fireworks at cops is a threat to public safety. It doesn't matter if they're left wing agitators, right wing agitators pretending to be left wing agitators, or something else entirely. They need to be crushed.

That's the difference between myself and most of the hand-wringers on this site. I don't view one's political ideology as being the justification for bad behavior.

#114 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 01:07 AM | Reply

"I don't know that it's not. And it really doesn't matter."

Of course it matters. The guys in the Hawaiian shirts believe you're too dumb to realize they threw the bottles, yet you'll blame the folks who didn't.

Are they right? Are you too dumb to know provocateurs exist, and view these protests as the perfect storm to cause violence you'll blame on others?

#115 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-29 01:13 AM | Reply

"I don't view one's political ideology as being the justification for bad behavior."

Nonsense. You've called all protesters rioters. That exposes your bias.

"It doesn't matter if they're left wing agitators, right wing agitators pretending to be left wing agitators, or something else entirely."

More manure. To this point, you've pretended they're all left-wing agitators. How does that not matter, especially if you're dead wrong?

#116 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-29 01:17 AM | Reply

"What other "guaranteed rights" are being abridged when a group conducts a peaceful assembly?"

The right to yell "fire", the right to bear shoulder-to-air missiles...need I go on?

#117 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-29 01:19 AM | Reply

Not sure what you're saying, but that sure confirms the tie to the Boogboiz.

#112 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2020-09-28 06:20 PM | FLAG:

The Boog Boys appropriated Aloha Shirt culture, and it's annoying.

#118 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-09-29 10:50 AM | Reply

I have some silly aviation aloha shirts, it's been a thing for a long time. Wear one now and you're going to get some right wing nut smiling shouting TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP at you and some left wing nut putting a lock in a sock while shouting TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP.

Please don't let any of those groups start identifying with brunch. I will burn it all down if brunch gets political.

#119 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-09-29 10:52 AM | Reply

I will burn it all down if brunch gets political.

#119 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Rest easy.

Trumpy made sure can still claim it as a "business expense".

#120 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-09-29 10:57 AM | Reply

"Of course it matters. The guys in the Hawaiian shirts believe you're too dumb to realize they threw the bottles, yet you'll blame the folks who didn't."

I'll say it again, in case you missed it the first time:

"Whatever group it is that's throwing fireworks at cops is a threat to public safety. It doesn't matter if they're left wing agitators, right wing agitators pretending to be left wing agitators, or something else entirely. They need to be crushed."

"Nonsense. You've called all protesters rioters. That exposes your bias."

No, I've called rioters rioters.

You didn't once hear me call the Proud Boys rioters, because they weren't rioting. I'm not even sure they were protesting.

And it's not really me calling them rioters, it's the Portland Police, every night they declare a riot. Which happened again tonight (29 Sept).

"How does that not matter, especially if you're dead wrong?"

Because unlike you, I don't give a ---- about their ideology. If they are right-wingers...I don't think they are but if they are, you treat them no differently than you would if they were a left wing group. You infiltrate, collect, build out the network. Eventually you'll be able to determine who is aligned with who...and who isn't.

#121 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 12:22 PM | Reply

"The right to yell "fire", the right to bear shoulder-to-air missiles...need I go on?"

I think you're having a senior moment.

#122 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 12:24 PM | Reply

"I have some silly aviation aloha shirts, it's been a thing for a long time."

As do I.

Once upon a time, it was common for aviators to throw tropical themed parties wearing Hawaiian shirts decked out with bombers.

Cue Dan, Snoofy, and Corky to demand that the DoD ban this practice immediately. There's no place in this country for things that offend them.

#123 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 12:26 PM | Reply

"Whatever group it is that's throwing fireworks at cops is a threat to public safety."

I agree.

"No, I've called rioters rioters."

Bull. I asked you directly how many protestors in Portland were rioters, and your answer was ALL of them.

" it's not really me calling them rioters, it's the Portland Police, every night they declare a riot."

Riiiiight. Keep hiding behind THAT skirt.

" unlike you, I don't give a ---- about their ideology."

That's because your first assumption is they're all left-wing rioters.

"If they are right-wingers...I don't think they are but if they are..."

Thanks for proving my point.

#124 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-29 12:26 PM | Reply

"Cue Dan, Snoofy, and Corky to demand that the DoD ban this practice immediately."

Good God, man, you can't even admit these provocateurs exist.

#125 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-09-29 12:27 PM | Reply

"Once upon a time, it was common for aviators to throw tropical themed parties wearing Hawaiian shirts decked out with bombers."

They don't do that any more?
Why'd they stop?

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 12:32 PM | Reply

So, it appears that you're making the claim that freedom of speech should be measured against the contents of the speech itself.
Would it follow that bad free speech be prohibited?
Did I miss that part of the 1st amendment?
#89 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2020-09-28 03:06 PM

Yes. Lots of bad free speech is prohibited.

Threats of violence and incitement are "bad speech" and are prohibited. Same with dissemination of child pornography IP infringement, threats against the President, and many other forms of bad speech.

I guess you did miss that part.

#127 | Posted by JOE at 2020-09-29 12:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What other "guaranteed rights" are being abridged when a group conducts a peaceful assembly?
#113 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Answer this question:
Why can't they assemble at the polling place?
There's your answer.

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 12:40 PM | Reply

"Bull. I asked you directly how many protestors in Portland were rioters, and your answer was ALL of them."

Then I misunderstood or misinterpreted your question.

There are many protesters currently in Portland. Most seem to be intent on remaining non-violent.

#129 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 02:35 PM | Reply

"Thanks for proving my point."

So do you think the rioters are right-wingers?

Do you have something to substantiate that?

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some right wing agitators out there...but you seem to be implying that the majority are right-wingers. And if you do, then like me, you should be asking why the Law Enforcement is not actively trying to flesh out this network. Becuase like I said, I don't care if they're on the left or the right, they're criminals who are hovering very close to being terrorists. Not because of their beliefs, but because of their actions.

#130 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 02:40 PM | Reply

"Threats of violence and incitement are "bad speech" and are prohibited."

Agreed.

So which groups in Portland are threatening violence and incitement? I'll give you a hint-they like to put nails on their fireworks before throwing them at cops.

"Same with dissemination of child pornography"

And snuff films. Don't forget those. But it has less to do with the material than the people who harmed in the creation of the material. You're a lawyer, so you would know better than me, but animated or CG snuff films, kiddie porn wouldn't be illegal.

"I guess you did miss that part."

People like to use the "yelling fire" example. For me, a better one would be an Air Traffic Controller who clears an aircraft down to an altitude that's lower than high terrain. That's not covered by free speech either. I feel like it shouldn't be explained to you why that is.

#131 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 02:45 PM | Reply

But I feel like you and Snoofy, Dan, and Corky are all tapdancing. I think it's because in your mind, political views you disagree with should not be allowed, even if the groups are non-violent.

In which case, you don't support free speech. That's OK...but just be honest about it.

#132 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"political views you disagree with should not be allowed"

Sharia Law is a political view.
Should Sharia Law be allowed?

"In which case, you don't support free speech."

Neither do you, unless you support shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 03:02 PM | Reply

"Sharia Law is a political view. Should Sharia Law be allowed?"

Yes.

Trying to convince people that Sharia would be a good thing is very different than making you accept it by force.

#134 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 03:34 PM | Reply

"Neither do you, unless you support shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater."

Which is kinda like my preferred example of the air traffic controller directing an aircraft to descend to an altitude below high terrain.

I think you can discern the difference...I think you'll choose not to. Ultimately because you're scrounging for a reason to deny someone you disagree with their 1st amendment rights.

#135 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-09-29 03:36 PM | Reply

"Sharia Law is a political view. Should Sharia Law be allowed?"

"Yes"

Sounds like were getting somewhere...

Nazism is a political view.
Should Nazism be allowed?

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 03:51 PM | Reply

"The President needs to be assassinated" is a political view.

Should assassination attempts (with guns) be allowed?

Be sure to consider the purpose of the Second Amendment in your answer.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 03:53 PM | Reply

Did the Nazis silence you, MadBomber?
If they did, you'd be okay with that!
Your own words:

"Should Sharia Law be allowed?"
"Yes"

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-09-29 04:13 PM | Reply

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