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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, October 04, 2020

President Donald Trump is now being treated with dexamethasone, a common steroid that has demonstrated in clinical trials in the U.K. that it can reduce mortality in severely ill COVID-19 patients. Dexamethasone, a type of corticosteroid, has been considered a treatment only for severely ill COVID-19 patients; "corticosteroids also appear to be associated with benefit among critically ill patients with COVID-19 whether they are receiving mechanical ventilation or oxygen without mechanical ventilation," researchers wrote in September in a JAMA editorial.

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Alternate links: Google News | Twitter

New York Times (06/24/2020):

Dexamethasone was beneficial for those who had been sick for more than a week, reducing deaths by one-third among patients on mechanical ventilators and by one-fifth among patients receiving supplemental oxygen by other means.

Patients given the steroid who were not receiving respiratory support, however, actually died at a slightly higher rate than similar patients who were not given the drug, although the difference was not statistically significant.

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The refusal to put the vice president in temporary command in a situation like this boggles my mind.

That's the whole point of having the office of vice president! You want to show the world that someone is in place to keep the mighty machine of state rolling along when the president is incapacitated.

Instead, as Trump receives yet another treatment given to seriously ill coronavirus cases, Mike Pence is still about as useful as a wisdom tooth. He's sitting around the house with Mother in his slippers asking aides, "Does anybody need me to break a tie in the Senate today? No? OK. I'll just finish reading this delightful Goofus and Gallant cartoon. Oh that Goofus!"

#1 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 12:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump could leave hospital as early as Monday, doctors say
www.cbsnews.com

...President Trump has "continued to improve" and respond to treatment for COVID-19 at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, his doctors said Sunday, suggesting he could return to the White House as early as Monday if he continues to make progress.

"If he continues to look and feel as well as he does today, our hope is that we can plan for a discharge as early as tomorrow to the White House where he can continue his treatment course," said Dr. Brian Garibaldi of Johns Hopkins University, who is consulting the president's medical treatment....


@#2 ... Instead, as Trump receives yet another treatment given to seriously ill coronavirus cases ...

The apparent inherent conflict in the information being given out is concerning...


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 12:43 PM | Reply

Irresponsibility like this is unforgivable. Vice President Pence needs to take the oath of office and assume the Presidency NOW! America simply cannot be a rudderless ship just because one man doesn't want to acknowledge reality.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2020-10-04 12:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The refusal to put the vice president in temporary command in a situation like this boggles my mind.
That's the whole point of having the office of vice president! You want to show the world that someone is in place to keep the mighty machine of state rolling along when the president is incapacitated.

#1 | POSTED BY RCADE

Excellent point and I look forward to Sen. Harris hammering the point home that Pence isn't trusted by the White House to fill in even while the President is hospitalized.

#4 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2020-10-04 12:47 PM | Reply

My recollection is it isn't uncommon for patients to appear to be recovering and still crash hard within 7-8 days of showing symptoms.

I'm not sure, if I were his physicians, I'd want to be indicating he could get out early "if he continues to improve" with the possibility he might not return to work that day. That would be an admission that he's not continuing to improve. Now there is going to be tremendous pressure for him to return on Monday, whether it's medically appropriate or not. Too many appearances at stake.

#5 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2020-10-04 12:50 PM | Reply

Talk of leaving the hospital should drive the markets upward along with the added effect of energizing his campaign dollars and believers devotion, as God intended.
www.youtube.com

#6 | Posted by LesWit at 2020-10-04 12:52 PM | Reply

I really think that this is the reality of our times: There are only extremely rare instances where the US Government - including its vast military - actually needs immediate input from the President over its normal functioning.

Think about it; can you identify or even theorize where an immediate decision from Donald Trump is necessary - especially on a day-to-day basis? We know his schedule, and we watch him golf and binge Fox News. What we don't see is our government breathlessly waiting for Donald Trump to issue meaningful edits on matters of urgent importance.

The mindset is likely that unless both an issue of immediate importance coincides with the President not in a state of ability to address it with his normal capabilities, then and only then will the relevant contingencies be implemented.

IOW, unless Trump has to be/or is rendered into a state of unconsciousness, the existence of which cannot be kept from leaking, he will never relinquish power. Not Trump. Admitting that he is incapacitated is something he will never do until he's forced to by those around him including all the duress such a confrontation would entail.

#7 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#5 ... I'm not sure, if I were his physicians, I'd want to be indicating he could get out early ...

There's an operative point implied in that part of your comment.

Do the doctors treating Pres Trump work for Pres Trump, or for the People of the United States?

How much information should the doctors provide in their public briefings?

Should they bias the information they provide to make Pres Trump's condition look better or worse than it actually may be?


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 01:12 PM | Reply

Should they bias the information they provide to make Pres Trump's condition look better or worse than it actually may be?

One of them stood right before the camera today and said he was following Trump's orders to convey how positive everything is going from Trump's perspective because that's what he wants the American people to hear.

You don't have to guess because they're already doing it.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 01:21 PM | Reply

It's interesting that for a man who wasn't afraid of the virus, how Trumpibunkerboi manages to get on the frontline for "prophylactic treatments" starting with hydroxychloroquine. Meanwhile, the rest of us get what we get when we get it.

Bill Moyers is floating an idea I think worth considering
billmoyers.com

#10 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-04 01:22 PM | Reply

@#9 ... One of them stood right before the camera today and said he was following Trump's orders to convey how positive everything is going from Trump's perspective because that's what he wants the American people to hear. ...

So the doctors admitted they will lie because Pres Trump tells them to lie? Wow.

So why then do the doctors bother to give the public briefings at all? Aside from the apparent reason that Pres Trump is using them as a stand-in prevaricator for Ms McEnany.

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 01:29 PM | Reply

Trumpibunkerboi is an NVPeale acolyte... it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

This whole COVID thingie has been one big test case for the powers of some random omnipotence divine intervention...

#13 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-04 01:31 PM | Reply

So the doctors admitted they will lie because Pres Trump tells them to lie? Wow.

Asked about his reluctance to disclose to the public on Saturday that Trump had been on oxygen, Conley said he had been trying not to cause alarm.

"I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, over his course of illness, has had," the physician said. "I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction. And in doing so, you know, it came off that we were trying to hide something, which wasn't necessarily true. ... The fact of the matter is that he's doing really well."

www.washingtonpost.com

We already know the President's "attitude" about Covid. 7.4 million infected and 210,000+ deaths speak volumes about his attitude.

What we want to know is the professional opinion of his actual state as a matter of the quantifiable metrics used to determine such for every other patient that isn't the POTUS.

And this:

"I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction."
WTF?!?!

His personal physician actually stated that the coronavirus might decide to become more physically virulent based on the way information is given to the public about Trump's condition? Who in holy hell do you think invented that little mind****?

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 01:48 PM | Reply

Don't trust anything coming from the White House. We already know he purposely downplayed the virus. No way they're going to give any negative news, especially when the election is so close.

#15 | Posted by Pirate at 2020-10-04 01:53 PM | Reply

@#14

At this point my next touchstone is tomorrow.

The doctor said the President may leave the hospital "as early as Monday" (before the stock market opens?).

If Pres Trump is still in the hospital tomorrow evening, then my concern level rises significantly because Pres Trump's condition will not appear to be progressing as the doctor had hoped.

#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 01:54 PM | Reply

So far Trump has received three treatments for seriously ill Covid patients, including one that's experimental, non-peer reviewed and given to only 275 other people.

Either he's really sick or he's panicking and telling doctors to do whatever some dope told him was a miracle cure. It's a wonder he hasn't tried the MyPillow crackpot's dangerous Oleadrin treatment.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 01:57 PM | Reply

#3 Hold up Danni. Why are you complaining that while Trump is sick, Pence isn't put in charge. The current situation sounds like the best option, no Trump, no Pence.
Be grateful.

#18 | Posted by bored at 2020-10-04 02:02 PM | Reply

As it regards Trumps actually Covid contraction, all of us who've been paying attention to the chronology usually observed in patients are seeing one we haven't seen before based on the pronouncements of Trump's doctors. Trump is 4/5 days into symptomatic infection, and I can't recall anyone ever claiming that any patient is beating the virus at this point. It's far too early, the virus hasn't yet begun to affect all that it might.

Secondly, most people know that 7-10 days into the infection is often the point where patient symptoms worsen and is more determinant of that person's prognosis as to the degree of the virus' severity. Trump has already had what I feel are shocking complications that we've found out about. This is the place during a normal viral progression where many patients feel a little better, and since Trump has been given the most promising therapeutics to minimize the severity of infection, his announced condition should not be that surprising.

But what we also know is that even in patients that beat the virus, many are still dealing with ailments and symptoms far longer than a handful of days. I really think his doctors are going to end up having created far more anxiety as the virus runs its usually unpredictable course and Trump is unable to do what he's been doing before because of the virus' effect upon his body and maybe his mind.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 02:04 PM | Reply

@#17 ... It's a wonder he hasn't tried the MyPillow crackpot's dangerous Oleadrin treatment. ...

Or this one...

Hydroxychloroquine Doctor is Furious Donald Trump Took 'Experimental Antibody Stupidness'
www.newsweek.com

...A doctor notorious for claiming hydroxychloroquine is a "cure" for COVID-19 has denounced White House doctors for not giving President Donald Trump the drug to treat his infection.

Dr. Stella Immanuel, who gained fame in July after Trump retweeted a video showing her touting the malaria drug, expressed outrage in a series of tweets on Friday, condemning the medical decisions of "bozo doctors" who surrounded the president after he tested positive for COVID-19....


#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 02:05 PM | Reply

Pelosi says she's receiving Trump health updates through the media, not briefings
www.axios.com


The White House is being very secretive about Pres Trump's condition.

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 02:06 PM | Reply

I wonder if and how badly Trump's brain was damaged by hypoxia

#22 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2020-10-04 02:07 PM | Reply

... and maybe his mind.

One of the side effects of dexamethasone is confusion.

#23 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:07 PM | Reply

@#19 ... Secondly, most people know that 7-10 days into the infection is often the point where patient symptoms worsen and is more determinant of that person's prognosis as to the degree of the virus' severity. ...

The only rationale I can think of is that the doctors are being extra aggressive before the 7-10 critical period occurs.

However, that is based upon my zero medical training. It is only a lay person's guess.

#24 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 02:09 PM | Reply

I wonder if and how badly Trump's brain was damaged by hypoxia

I'm no doctor but I think it would require a lot more than low oxygen to cause brain damage.

My grandmother lost all oxygen for a brief period during surgery. It caused dementia that progressed over 10 years until she didn't recognize us in her final years.

#25 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:10 PM | Reply

Trump is just like a WWE wrestler getting bulked up before a big match
No big whoop

- - the GOP

#26 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-10-04 02:20 PM | Reply

Recent research showed the drug, dexamethasone, reduced the risk of death by about a third for patients on ventilators and by a fifth for those who receive supplemental oxygen, as Trump did. The drug has not been shown to help less sick patients and could even be harmful if administered too early because of the way it suppresses the immune system.

I've listened to enough medical specialists this weekend to come to a theoretical conclusion (though I will eagerly await JPW's comments on this point): The first anti-body therapy was given to "fire up" his immune system response to the virus trying to infect its cells. However, as the virus progresses, many patients experience a cytokine storm where the immune system turns itself up to 11-12 and then can burn out organs in the body leading to death. The early use of the steroid is probably to counterbalance the anti-bodies, or at least it makes logical sense that it might be.

But the bottom line here is that Trump's doctors are throwing everything they've got at his infection in ways that haven't been done for other patients. One of the likely drivers is the realization that if the virus does take hold of Trump's body his comorbidities make him a poor candidate of being able to survive a severe infection without lasting if not fatal harm.

Trump is doing what Trump always does. He's still trying to out macho the virus and prove his masculinity. He'll learn no lessons upon surviving this scare. The experience will only further fuel his delusions of invincibility.

#27 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It caused dementia that progressed over 10 years until she didn't recognize us in her final years.

#25 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2020-10-04 02:10 PM | REPLY | FLAG:SAD

Sorry to hear that RC but, it is a very common thing to happen as we get older. Honestly I will not go under for anything unless it outweighs the risk.

COVID does cause brain changes in some. The Lancet published some findings a few months back. 1 in 3 experience some changes. You can find it online. It's a serious disease.

I think it's easy to see Trumpibunkerboi is already running on a short loop of repetitive behaviors... so it doesn't bode well for him.

#28 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-04 02:22 PM | Reply

Honestly I will not go under for anything unless it outweighs the risk.

True. It was for wrist surgery that was supposed to be routine, but at her age was dangerous. She was very independent minded and kind of a bad ass.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:30 PM | Reply

Two things to note here:

1. HIPPA does not allow Trump's doctors to disclose anything he doesn't want them to disclose.

2. Anyone who trusts anything that Trump directs people to say regarding anything are completely wasting their time.

Have fun with the endless speculation, because that is all anyone can do.

#30 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 02:33 PM | Reply

@#30

Yup.

That's why I set my touchstone for tomorrow evening, as I noted in a different comment.

Your first point does seem to indicate, though, that the doctors are not treating the President of the United States, but citizen Trump.



#31 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

HIPPA does not allow Trump's doctors to disclose anything he doesn't want them to disclose.

HIPAA does not obligate them to lie. If they wanted to cite HIPAA and say nothing they could, but instead they are providing some false information.

The idea a president's health is off-limits under privacy considerations is dangerous. This person controls our nukes.

#32 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#31

There is no exemption under HIPPA for any public figure, so yes, he is citizen Trump in the eyes of the law.

#32

You have zero proof that they are providing false information (declining to release information isn't the same as uttering a falsehood), which would itself be a violation of HIPPA.

#33 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 02:46 PM | Reply

You have zero proof that they are providing false information ...

The doctor admitted he provided false information about Trump not receiving oxygen.

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:47 PM | Reply

Come on Rogers, having a "reluctance to disclose to the public on Saturday that Trump had been on oxygen" is not the same as saying that he was not on oxygen. He refused to answer those questions, which he is legally allowed to do (and if he was instructed by the patient not to disclose that, then he can't).

If you have a quote from his doctor where he said "he's not on oxygen" then post it, and if true than he has more serious issues than a failure to disclose aspects of someone's health care.

#35 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 02:53 PM | Reply

Come on Rogers, having a "reluctance to disclose to the public on Saturday that Trump had been on oxygen" is not the same as saying that he was not on oxygen.

He was asked multiple times by reporters on Friday whether Trump received oxygen. He admitted later that he intentionally kept the information about Trump receiving oxygen from the public to project an "upbeat attitude."

That's an intent to mislead. He didn't say he was keeping any information private under HIPAA.

Stop pretending HIPAA is having any impact on the selective and misleading disclosures of medical information coming from Trump's doctors. We all can see what's happening here. It's an intent to spin Trump's health and his doctors are shaming themselves by being a part of it, just like his personal doctor whose letter proclaiming Trump's health in 2016 was dictated by Trump himself. Trump surrounds himself with lickspittles who will lie for him.

#37 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lawyers suck. Just liars "parsing", the lies.

No wonder Shakespeare wrote,"First thing,let's kill all the lawyer's". Lol.

#38 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-04 03:02 PM | Reply

You have zero proof that they are providing false information

Mr. Attorney, does not a history of lies constitute evidence of lying?

#39 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 03:06 PM | Reply

#37

"He was asked multiple times by reporters on Friday whether Trump received oxygen. He admitted later that he intentionally kept the information about Trump receiving oxygen from the public to project an "upbeat attitude."

And he refused to answer those questions, as he is allowed/required to under HIPPA. Once again, intentionally omitting information regarding treatment under HIPPA is not a falsehood nor is it "an intent to mislead", and there is no requirement that a physician declare that he is withholding information under HIPPA.

Trump is directing what can or can't be disclosed, and there is nothing that the press or his doctors can do other than deal with the information that they are authorized to disclose.

Stop hyperventilating over the endless speculation over this, IMO lamplighter has the correct approach, let's see what Monday brings since we can't trust anything this Administration says about anything.

#40 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:08 PM | Reply

He shouldn't be returning to the White House.

BTW, they did a poor job of editing out Trump's cough (with Adobe Premier morph) in the video linked below.

Watch his shoulders after he says the word 'therapeutics' @ 1:05:

twitter.com

#41 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:08 PM | Reply

#39

Nope, you can't use a pattern of behavior, no matter how consistent, to prove that a particular statement is not true.

#42 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:09 PM | Reply

#38

Just telling you what the law requires, and anyone who has a job has signed a HIPPA acknowledgement. I suggest you all read it next time, it is very draconian as to what can and can't be disclosed.

#43 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:12 PM | Reply

Dexamethasone can cause frank mania, or more severe depressive states. Added to the risk of COVID related neuropsychiatric symptoms/severe delirium the press ought to be asking the medical team how they are formally monitoring his mental status

@maggieNYT @jonathanvswan

Replying to
@jflier
and
@asymmetricinfo
Yes. I was put on dexamethasone a few years ago for severe pneumonia that wasn't getting better. I was flying high. Scary mania and I had to be tapered off of it.

12:00 PM Oct 4, 2020

#44 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:14 PM | Reply

#39
Nope, you can't use a pattern of behavior, no matter how consistent, to prove that a particular statement is not true.

#42 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

SOOOOO, a witness is sitting in a witness booth and lies several times in a row and that cannot be used to prove that the next statement is a lie.

I wouldnt want to be your client.

#45 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 03:14 PM | Reply

He shouldn't be returning to the White House.

100%, they should require him to convalesce at one of his resorts or Camp David, since the White House also is his office.

#46 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#45

First of all, I am not a trial lawyer, but second year law students learn in Evidence that the statement itself stands alone, two previous lies do not make the third statement untrue.

There is a standard jury instruction that says something to the effect that "if you find the witness willfully false on one statement then you can deem the rest of their testimony untrustworthy", but that is not the same as proving "that the next statement is a lie."

#47 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:20 PM | Reply

Stop hyperventilating over the endless speculation over this ...

Yeah, your completely groundless claim about HIPAA guiding the doctor's statements is so much better.

The easiest ------- thing in the world for a medical professional to do would be to cite HIPAA to avoid answering a question.

The doctor didn't do that. You know why? Because a president's health impacts millions of people and a president hiding behind HIPAA would be a major news story.

Presidents release details of their yearly physicals. Nobody talks about HIPAA being involved in that because Americans have the expectation a president's health is important for the public to know.

Could they hide behind HIPAA? Of course they could. No one is disputing that, counselor.

#48 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The fact that, even after his residence was revealed to be a Superspreader site, Conley is still briefing the media without a mask on, tells me this is a Trump-directed charade to promote a particular appearance rather than something that should be taken seriously.

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2020-10-04 03:24 PM | Reply

If for no other reason, Trump should give the keys to Pence because of the dexamethasone (steroid) they have him on.

Common side effects include mania, depression, and other adverse mental issues

#50 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:27 PM | Reply

#48

"Yeah, your completely groundless claim about HIPAA guiding the doctor's statements is so much better."

The law is very clear and not "groundless" in the slightest. Ask any Doctor you know if they would dare mention any aspect of a client's treatment without specific permission to do so. It's not worth losing their license to practice medicine to do so.

"Presidents release details of their yearly physicals. Nobody talks about HIPAA being involved"

That is because the citizen has authorized the public release of their physical, as HIPPA allows. If Trump had refused to release his physicals under HIPPA, you might have a point.

#51 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:29 PM | Reply

Once again, intentionally omitting information regarding treatment under HIPPA is not a falsehood nor is it "an intent to mislead", and there is no requirement that a physician declare that he is withholding information under HIPPA.

1. It's "HIPAA"

2. The fact that Conley is only providing the information Trump is letting him provide is precisely the point; he has (at best) been directed to provide fragmented information to the public and having the media and others filling in the obvious gaps is not how you reassure a nation about the president's health.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2020-10-04 03:29 PM | Reply

We all can see what's happening here. It's an intent to spin Trump's health and his doctors are shaming themselves by being a part of it, just like his personal doctor whose letter proclaiming Trump's health in 2016 was dictated by Trump himself. Trump surrounds himself with lickspittles who will lie for him.

#37 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2020-10-04 02:59 PM | FLAG: SO TRUE

It's weird how it seems once some get in his orbit... they hand their nuggets over
and start dictating his rambling edicts... like they're spellbound.

How many times has this happened?... it's like he's a big orange Rasputin...

#53 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-04 03:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

On another COVID-related topic:

Jaime Harrison kicked Lindsey Graham's ass at their debate last night.

He even brought his own plexiglass shield!

twitter.com

#54 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:32 PM | Reply

Not only are they fudging information about Trump, they're even editing out Trump's coughs (with Adobe Premier morph) as seen in the video linked below.

Watch his shoulders after he says the word 'therapeutics' @ 1:05:

twitter.com

#55 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:35 PM | Reply

#52

Correction noted.

"The fact that Conley is only providing the information Trump is letting him provide is precisely the point; he has (at best) been directed to provide fragmented information to the public and having the media and others filling in the obvious gaps is not how you reassure a nation about the president's health."

Which has been my point as well. Conley, in providing partial information, is not "providing false information" with "an intent to mislead", he is releasing what he is told to release by Trump and his handlers. Not a surprise that Trump is withholding information, which is why I said:

2. Anyone who trusts anything that Trump directs people to say regarding anything are completely wasting their time.

#56 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:35 PM | Reply

The law is very clear and not "groundless" in the slightest.

I didn't say the law was groundless. What's groundless is your repeated insistence that the doctor has chosen what to say and what to lie about because of HIPAA.

Ask any Doctor you know if they would dare mention any aspect of a client's treatment without specific permission to do so.

Everyone knows this. That isn't under dispute. It was never under dispute. You keep dragging this into a legal discussion that isn't the point. The doctors have been providing information and we're scrutinizing that information, as anyone would when a president is 74 years old and afflicted with a potentially fatal illness.

#57 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 03:39 PM | Reply

#56 You don't know what Conley's intent is. If he and Trump decided together that they would release fragmented information to obscure the true status of Trump's condition from the public then Conley's intent may very well be to mislead.

#58 | Posted by JOE at 2020-10-04 03:39 PM | Reply

The staged photos of Trump "working" with a Sharpie are taken in two different rooms but it's the exact same objects on the two tables, rearranged differently.

All they do is lie and they're still so bad at it. pic.twitter.com/PPbPyhFYD5

" JRehling (@JRehling)
October 4, 2020

#59 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 03:41 PM | Reply

"that the doctor has chosen what to say and what to lie about because of HIPAA."

And once again, you have no evidence that the Doctor lied. Refusal to answer a question about someone's medical treatment is not a lie.

Don't blame the Doctor, blame Trump and his handlers.

#60 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:42 PM | Reply

A friend who is a surgical nurse said the doctor saying the Cat Scan showed "what was expected" is highly suspicious, cause what might be expected in covid patients are fractured glass opacities.

#61 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 03:42 PM | Reply

#58

And you don't know whether that happened or not, which is why I also said "Have fun with the endless speculation, because that is all anyone can do."

What I do know is that a Doctor's refusal to answer a question about someone's treatment (without any evidence otherwise) is not a lie.

#62 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:44 PM | Reply

And once again, you have no evidence that the Doctor lied.

Projecting an "upbeat attitude" by intentionally omitting relevant information is a lie.

#63 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 03:45 PM | Reply

If he and Trump decided together that they would release fragmented information to obscure the true status of Trump's condition from the public then Conley's intent may very well be to mislead.

And that wouldn't be the first time that has happened, after all we didn't find out that Reagan almost died on the operating table when he was shot until years later.

#64 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:46 PM | Reply

rcade you are wasting your breath arguing semantics with a lawyer and RoC at that

#65 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 03:46 PM | Reply

#63

If you are prohibited from releasing the information in the first place, that omission is not a lie by the Doctor.

#66 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:48 PM | Reply

#65

LOL, I will let Righto know he still lives in your fantasies.

#67 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 03:49 PM | Reply

And that wouldn't be the first time that has happened ...

The fact that presidents and their doctors lie about these things during a crisis is a reason to hold them accountable, not make excuses for them.

#68 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 03:52 PM | Reply

Dammit, Conley LIED and admitted that he LIED today, LCL wrong speculation aside. It's already posted on this thread. Now parse THIS:

Asked about his reluctance to disclose to the public on Saturday that Trump had been on oxygen, Conley said he had been trying not to cause alarm.

"I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, over his course of illness, has had," the physician said. "I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction. And in doing so, you know, it came off that we were trying to hide something, which wasn't necessarily true. ... The fact of the matter is that he's doing really well."

www.washingtonpost.com

Conley wasn't invoking HIPPA, he was said exactly what he was doing, "...reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, over the course of illness, has had. ... (I)t came off that we were trying to hide something, which wasn't necessarily true.

Which means that it was necessarily false.

#69 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 03:53 PM | Reply

roc everyone knows lcl is a sockpuppet for roc, so stop being a bitch and own up to it.

#70 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 03:53 PM | Reply

And you don't know

That's fine, but I'm not the one saying "Conley, in providing partial information, is not providing false information with an intent to mislead."

You don't know his intent so stop pretending you do. If nobody else gets to speculate then neither do you.

#71 | Posted by JOE at 2020-10-04 03:54 PM | Reply

@#58 ... If he and Trump decided together that they would release fragmented information to obscure the true status of Trump's condition from the public then Conley's intent may very well be to mislead. ...

Dr Conley: "I was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude that the team, the president, that his course of illness has had, I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction."

So he said he wanted to reflect an upbeat attitude, and didn't want to give information that would convey anything else but that upbeat attitude.

I read that as him saying that he is willing to provide misinformation and/or partial information in order to reflect an upbeat attitude.



#72 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 03:55 PM | Reply

And I'll repeat that nobody would be speculating if the public were given complete information about the President's current status. Conley is, at best, complicit in the decision to let people fill in the gaps as he could easily say "I'm not doing that" and resign.

#73 | Posted by JOE at 2020-10-04 03:55 PM | Reply

#69 correction,

Which means that it wasn't necessarily false.

#74 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 04:01 PM | Reply

@#73 ... And I'll repeat that nobody would be speculating if the public were given complete information about the President's current status. ...

Correct.

That Pres Trump feels the need to hide his real status is concerning.



#75 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 04:01 PM | Reply

I don't see what the big deal is. Conservatives lie. Conservative doctors lie. The doctor wasn't under oath. Lying is not a crime. Even if it was, he is a white male conservative, so he wouldn't be held accountable for breaking the law regardless.

Yeah... the doctor is probably a -------. We have seen many people prove themselves to be -------- over the past three years through their interactions with conservatives.

Don't get so caught up on semantics. Pretty much anyone elected or installed into a position of authority by conservatives you should assume is a liar, and should require that any statement they make is backed up by evidence. Because conservatives have demonstrated that they don't care if the people they choose to represent them are liars... in fact they prefer it that way.

#76 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2020-10-04 04:23 PM | Reply

You don't know his intent so stop pretending you do. If nobody else gets to speculate then neither do you.

I am not speculating when I say that providing partial information is not the same as providing "false information with an intent to mislead." As a lawyer you should know that as well as anyone.

Conley is, at best, complicit in the decision to let people fill in the gaps as he could easily say "I'm not doing that" and resign.

No matter how unrealistic that outcome would be, I agree that he had that option when told to be "upbeat."

As I pointed out with the Reagan example, this is not unprecedented.

#77 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 04:25 PM | Reply

And that wouldn't be the first time that has happened, after all we didn't find out that Reagan almost died on the operating table when he was shot until years later.
#64 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

Republicans lied to us then, so it's okay for Republicans to lie to us now!

Just things Liberal Democrat Biden Supporters say...

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 04:26 PM | Reply

"I am not speculating when I say that providing partial information is not the same as providing "false information with an intent to mislead."

What's the difference?

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 04:27 PM | Reply

roc everyone knows lcl is a sockpuppet for roc, so stop being a bitch and own up to it.

#70 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2020-10-04 03:53 PM

Then maybe Rogers should shut down my account since "everyone knows" that.

Or you could just "stop being a bitch", which would make "everyone" happier.

#80 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 04:27 PM | Reply

A little late to the conversation Snoofy, spew your nonsense elsewhere as I am going to watch the Raiders game.

#81 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 04:28 PM | Reply

Kellyanne Conway's daughter Claudia announced on Tik Tok this afternoon that she's contracted Covid.

Now Trump's recklessness has caused one of his staff member's child to become infected. There is no end in sight to the damage being caused by his malevolence and sociopathy.

#82 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-04 04:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And in doing so, you know, it came off that we were trying to hide something,which wasn't necessarily true."

TonyRoma, as I read it, he's saying it wasn't necessarily true that they were trying to hide something.

Of course, that leaves open the possibility that it wasn't necessarily false either!

It's a textbook non-denial denial. Ask LeftCoastLawyer if you have any further questions about non-denial denials.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 04:31 PM | Reply

Oh he's severely ill alright...
just not with Covid...

#84 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-10-04 04:43 PM | Reply

@#77 ... I am not speculating when I say that providing partial information is not the same as providing "false information with an intent to mislead." ...

You, not surprisingly, chose your words carefully.

I'd now ask...

Is providing partial information with an intent to mislead different than providing false information with an intent to mislead?

In both cases the intent seems to be mislead, and that is where my concern resides.

Dr Conley seems to have said his intent was to mislead.

#85 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 04:44 PM | Reply

"Is providing partial information with an intent to mislead different than providing false information with an intent to mislead?"

Careful, you'll ----- him!

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:02 PM | Reply

Dr Conley seems to have said his intent was to mislead.

If you insist on playing the speculation game, he also said that he wanted to "reflect the upbeat attitude...that his course of illness has had", so he also seems to have said that his intent was to not give partial information that would reflect otherwise.

As I repeatedly have said, it's all speculation. If Trump gets better then this is all more useless nonsense and needless deflection from the serious problems this country has from an Administration that has made that its hallmark.

#87 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2020-10-04 05:03 PM | Reply

Trump's doctor: I'm going to talk to the press.

Trump: Tell them I was treated with Remdesivir, Regeneron and Dexamethasone. Don't tell them I was treated with oxygen today but do tell them this tomorrow.

Trump's doctor: Why can't I just explain your treatment and condition accurately?

Trump: No! You must do precisely what I say or you will anger the HIPPO.

#88 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 05:08 PM | Reply

The choice to give Trump drugs that cause mania is likely a national security concern in it's own right.

Did his doctor get his medical degree from University of St. Petersburg?

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:12 PM | Reply

HIPPA
#30 | POSTED BY LEFTCOASTLAWYER

^
Your credibility is already on the ropes after that mistake.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I was treated with Dexamethasone following brain surgery. It is (as my team told me) a drug that seriously messes with your mind. It is a bad drug. I could not wait to get off it. Unfortunately you have to wean off which takes time. Trump is incapacitated. I couldn't be President of my cat when I was on Dexamethasone. He should not be exercising the powers of the Office of President on that drug. We are lucky if he doesn't start a war. He's incapacitated."

"I've been on it too for a different reason, and, been involved in the care of patients with brain tumors on it. It is not a pleasant drug to be on."

Some comments on Twitter.

#91 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 05:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

President -------- Stupidpants just did a drive by around Walter Reed.

What is ------- wrong with this "man"?

#92 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:30 PM | Reply

Trump knows how to drive a car?
That is news to me!

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:33 PM | Reply

Are you aware that ------- just had the presidential motorcade drive around Walter Reed so he could wave at his supporters?

#94 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:35 PM | Reply

Keep in mind that President Superspreader is highly contagious-hospital staff see him fully dressed in PPE and his Secret Service agents only had on masks.

#95 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:36 PM | Reply

Please tell me he stopped to get out and shake hands...

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:36 PM | Reply

Nope, just drove around to prove he is an alpha male.

#97 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:37 PM | Reply

What is ------- wrong with this "man"?
#92 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

His mommy and daddy didn't love him enough.
It's a common problem; that's why he got sixty million votes.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Covidula is breathtakingly irresponsible and selfish.

#99 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Too bad the Ghana guys weren't there.

#100 | Posted by bored at 2020-10-04 05:46 PM | Reply

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD
@DrPhillipsMD

18m
That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

Imagine having a patient like -------!
Oh BTW this is walter reed doctor's tweet

#101 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 05:56 PM | Reply

Reportedly Bill Barr is self quarantining

#102 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 06:04 PM | Reply

@#87 ... If you insist on playing the speculation game ...

Not surprisingly, you didn't answer my direct question about intent, and chose instead to deflect.

#103 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-04 06:08 PM | Reply

www.whitehousegiftshop.com

------- selling commemorative coins on him beating covid

i just can't

#104 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 06:11 PM | Reply

He's signing blank pieces of paper to "prove" that he's working:

www.mediaite.com

This photo propaganda was released by the WH, by the way. Someone once told me, 'Elections have consequences.'

#105 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-04 06:42 PM | Reply

What's the difference?
#79 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Lying by omission is lying nonetheless.

#106 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-04 06:47 PM | Reply

What we don't see is our government breathlessly waiting for Donald Trump to issue meaningful edits on matters of urgent importance.
#7 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2020-10-04 12:57 PM | FLAG: NEWSWORTHY 1

HAHAHA!

No we don't! Doesn't mean they won't try fakin' it!

Check out the link in #105.

#107 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-04 06:52 PM | Reply

How many times has this happened?... it's like he's a big orange Rasputin...
#53 | POSTED BY RIGHTISTRITE

Rasputin had one thing very big that Trump has very small.

It's still being kept in a jar of formaldehyde, Google it. ;)

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 07:03 PM | Reply

Careful, you'll ----- him!
#86 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

LOL filter!

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 07:05 PM | Reply

Apparently, Trump is the only person on the planet to receive all three treatments.

Just sayin'

#110 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 07:17 PM | Reply

Moments after stating "I learned a lot about COVID", the President takes a joyride in an enclosed space with presumably #COVID19 negative people, all while on experimental medications. -- New York City ER doctor Craig Spencer

twitter.com

#111 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-04 07:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- receive all three treatments.

They may turn his skin a human color.

#112 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-04 07:57 PM | Reply

Moments after stating "I learned a lot about COVID", the President takes a joyride in an enclosed space with presumably #COVID19 negative people, all while on experimental medications. -- New York City ER doctor Craig Spencer
twitter.com
#111 | POSTED BY RCADE

I think it was a body double. The propaganda is coming out in spades with the picture of Trump signing a blank piece of paper to the edited video (that can be easily speculated was edited to remove images of the POTUS coughing): twitter.com

So driving around a body double wearing a mask would definitely be part of this strategy, IMO.

It's a decent move. Worked in that movie Dave with Kevin Kline and Sigourney Weaver.

#113 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-04 08:10 PM | Reply

Frank mania is a side effect of most steroids.

Trump's a nutter. He needs quiet time. The election is not in his best interest.

#114 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-04 08:11 PM | Reply

#111 | Posted by rcade

This is starting to look more and more like --------.

#115 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-04 08:13 PM | Reply

"Apparently, Trump is the only person on the planet to receive all three treatments.
Just sayin'"

The pathological narcissist, hypochondriac, and control freak is likely directing his own care. Doctors likely told him the options and as president he said do all three.

No way they told him it was ok take a joyride. Well that's less energy to fight off covid anyways.

#116 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-10-04 08:24 PM | Reply

I have trouble taking the counsel of someone who keeps referring to The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act as HIPPA, even after the soft correction by people actually replying with HIPAA.

#117 | Posted by SunTzuMeow at 2020-10-04 08:25 PM | Reply

This is starting to look more and more like --------.

Which part?

#118 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-10-04 08:27 PM | Reply

Frank mania is a side effect of most steroids.

#114 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSERM

This is an important point. Last time I had to take steroids, I could tell it was making me irrationally angry. Trump is already irrationally angry. He shouldn't be allowed to make decisions as POTUS while roided up.

#119 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2020-10-04 08:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

KellyAnn Conway's daughter tests positive for Covid

#120 | Posted by truthhurts at 2020-10-04 08:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump put a lot of people in unnecessary risk with his drive by.

Here's what an attending physician at Walter Reed had to say about it:

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD
@DrPhillipsMD

3h
That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

https://twitter.com/drphillipsmd/status/1312869454385229827

Every single person in the vehicle during that completely unnecessary Presidential "drive-by" just now has to be quarantined for 14 days. They might get sick. They may die. For political theater. Commanded by Trump to put their lives at risk for theater. This is insanity.

" Dr. James P. Phillips, MD (@DrPhillipsMD)
October 4, 2020

#121 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 08:51 PM | Reply

#111 | Posted by rcade

See #121

#122 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-04 08:53 PM | Reply

I'm still dumbfounded that Trump has enough supporters within a 50 mile radius of WRAMC to make such a stunt possible.

I had to do some onboarding paperwork there when I worked at Stars and Stripes, it was never going to be part of my job, unlike going to the Pentagon once in a while to support our reporter with a desk there. But because of this one business need, I got a NCR (National Capitol Region, it gets you into most any DOD building) badge instead of just being allowed into Walter Reed that one time, and being given a Pentagon badge, which makes a lot more sense from a security point of view.

I always wondered what that business decision was about. I like to think it was to boost my morale, which it definitely did, by making me feel entrusted and important. I was after all working for the Department of Morale, Recreation, and Welfare.

I'm here for your morale, troops!

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 09:01 PM | Reply

Alternative theory, That was a stunt double. Autocrats employ stunt doubles after all.

#124 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-10-04 09:02 PM | Reply

Notice how Melania is nowhere in the headlines?

Hmmm.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 09:05 PM | Reply

Believing Trump doesn't have it, while all these other people do, is like believing the first moon landing was faked, but all the rest were real.

(Which is a personal favorite of mine, so I can appreciate the genius of it!)

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-04 09:08 PM | Reply

Notice how Melania is nowhere in the headlines?

People are saying she's hooked up with Jeff Bezos.

#127 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-10-04 09:17 PM | Reply

Wow....sooooo much hyperventilating, with soooooooo little evidence... Glad my mind has always been more evidence and science and logic based, and far less flat out cookoo nanzy-panzy drank all the conspiracy laden cool aid out of the fridge, um, based...

Sounds absolutely exhausting seeing shadows upon shadows wrapped up some of your little mental Rubick's cubes... I always lived by the principle of Occam's Razor, "when confronted by more than one explanation for why something is, the least complicated, more logical explanation, more often than not (but not always) proves to be the correct one.

So let's look at the evidence... 1.) Trump is a moron pretender and conman of the highest degree (fact!) 2). His followers, are non-logic based rubes, with far too much superstition and Jesus-based faith reasoning to be considered a thinking population (fact!) 3). Trump's Spoke's Doctor was undoubtedly selected because he is one: a liar like the President, two: a Republican (and thus considered loyal) like the President, or three: both! And lastly 4). Trump or his staff (knowing the impending nature of the looming election, & the fact that the President is currently behind in the polls) undoubtedly instructed said doctor to give him something to, "get him back up on his feet in a hurry, and back on the campaign trail",
enter said steroid injection...

You see, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce the chain of events and how they likely unfolded, just a brain that's not caught up in the ---------- Fantasy World of conspiracy theories...

#128 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-10-04 09:45 PM | Reply

Not to mention the extraordinary humility.....

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-04 10:04 PM | Reply

I think it would be a good time for Trump to take a performance enhancing drug test.

#130 | Posted by iloveyou at 2020-10-05 12:39 PM | Reply

Doctors should give Trump something he can really use, like a heart and a brain.

#131 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-10-05 12:41 PM | Reply

Great.

A Trumpy on steroids.

Just what we need right now.

#132 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-05 01:36 PM | Reply

Trump can lie and of obfuscate all he wants.

The severity of Trumpy's illness will be apparent if he is NOT released today.

#133 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-05 02:26 PM | Reply

I'm no doctor, but even I know that Dexmethasone is only used in extreme cases. It is known for having severe side effects, especially in older people. That might be the one medication that we should all interpret as a blinking red light.

#134 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-10-05 02:50 PM | Reply

Yep, got a feeling the Grim Reaper is already knocking at the white-house door wanting in, after that video watching him struggle to breathe.

#135 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-10-06 04:01 PM | Reply

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