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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, October 18, 2020

The point seems almost too obvious to note: Mr. Biden is not Mrs. Clinton. Yet for many Democrats and independents who sat out 2016, voted for third-party candidates or backed Mr. Trump, it is a rationale for their vote that comes up repeatedly: Mr. Biden is more acceptable to them than Mrs. Clinton was, in ways large and small, personal and political, sexist and not, and those differences help them feel more comfortable voting for the Democratic nominee this time around.

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But a key distinction between 2020 and 2016 is that, four years ago, the race came down to two of the most disliked and polarizing candidates in American history, and one of them also faced obstacles that came with being a barrier-breaking woman.

Mr. Biden now leads Mr. Trump in many public polls by bigger margins than Mrs. Clinton had in 2016. In private polling and focus groups, voters express more positive views of Mr. Biden than of Mrs. Clinton, though they know far less about his decades in political office, according to strategists affiliated with both Democrats' campaigns.

"The Republicans did a fantastic job of making Hillary Clinton seem like the devil for the last 20-plus years, so she was a hard sell," said Aaron Stearns, the Democratic chairman in Warren County in northwestern Pennsylvania. "It's just a lot easier with Joe Biden because he's a guy and he's an old white guy. I hate saying that, but it's the truth."

Mr. Biden leads Mr. Trump, 49 percent to 19 percent, among likely voters who backed third-party candidates in 2016, according to recent polling of battleground states by The New York Times and Siena College. Among registered voters who sat out the 2016 election, Mr. Biden leads by nine percentage points, the polls found.

Just further evidence why 2020 is not 2016. But as positive as this news may be for Joe Biden's electoral probability it equally illustrates how difficult it will be for a Democratic woman to finally win the White House. If one starts from the premise that there is no such thing as a perfect candidate, the extra baggage of innate prejudice and misogyny weighing down women candidates cannot be ignored on top of whatever policy objections voters may hold as well.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-18 11:21 AM | Reply

People do generally like Biden more than they liked Clinton, but they also fear Trump more than they did 4 years ago:

Liberal Democrats, too, are showing more willingness to set aside their ideological differences, following the lead of Senator Sanders, who quickly backed Mr. Biden after ending his primary bid.

"In the last election, I didn't see things as being as dire as I do in this election, and I didn't think that Donald Trump could win," said Nikki Baker, 66, a Minneapolis waitress who voted for Ms. Stein in 2016. "When Angela Davis and Noam Chomsky are saying you have to vote for Joe Biden, then I have to vote for Joe Biden."

#2 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-10-18 11:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Gal hit the nail on the head in #2.

In 2016.

No one thought Trump could win.

Headlines are pretty much identical today as in 2016.

"Trump will massively lose. Texas turning blue. Florida turning blue. America turning blue. Trump with less than 10% of the vote..."

Plus. At the time. Trump was an unknown. He spoke of all the magical things he was planning for America. Kill the debt. Better healthcare. Better trade. Zero golfing. Raise taxes.

Pretty sure a lot of people are done with his lies.

Hope so.

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-10-18 12:07 PM | Reply

Hillary was a turd. She got flushed. The DNC showed great hubris in pushing her on everybody. They got spanked. They didn't learn much from the experience but at least there are no Clinton's on the ballot this time. Thank God.

If Hillary ran again,she would lose again. Even against the ---------.

#4 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-18 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hillary was the most admired woman in the U.S. for over 20 years.

Unfortunately this is still a country that has a lot of people in it who won't support a woman for president.

That was her biggest problem. The scandals the right and far left tried to stick to her were chump change compared to Trump's scandals, and he's still got a shot to win re-election.

Trump and his family even have email security and handling problems. Funny how that was the No. 1 issue in 2016 and it isn't even an issue at all today.

#5 | Posted by rcade at 2020-10-18 12:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"sexist and not"

I'd love to know some of the "not sexist" reasons.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-18 12:57 PM | Reply

"Hillary was a turd."

Riiiiiight. All she could've brought to the table was intelligence, diligence, and competent governance.

And who wants that?!?

#7 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-10-18 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"but at least there are no Clinton's on the ballot this time. Thank God."

You might want to tell that to Trumpy and the gang.

"Hillary was a turd."

Propaganda works.

"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are acting on their own free will."
-- Joseph Goebbels

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-18 02:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Goebbels should be taught in schools, but Capitalists rightly see it as a threat.

"Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way."
--Daniele Vare

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-18 02:59 PM | Reply

Mr. Biden leads Mr. Trump, 49 percent to 19 percent, among likely voters who backed third-party candidates in 2016, according to recent polling of battleground states by The New York Times and Siena College. Among registered voters who sat out the 2016 election, Mr. Biden leads by nine percentage points, the polls found.

There's the 'swing state.' That has to be the most significant polling factor in play, currently.

Especially if those number hold up in areas like Florida.

Funny enough, I am a member of the 49 percent. Joe Biden earned my vote (we Californians have a lot more wiggle room to vote our conscience than some other states) with this rambling, completely sensical and practical answer from the latest town hall: www.youtube.com

#10 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-18 05:29 PM | Reply

Plus. At the time. Trump was an unknown. He spoke of all the magical things he was planning for America. Kill the debt. Better healthcare. Better trade. Zero golfing. Raise taxes.
Pretty sure a lot of people are done with his lies.
Hope so.
#3 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It's the greatest determinant in the modern political era: the 'next in line' candidate versus the 'out of left field' candidate. Trump was the ultimate 'out of left field' candidate and Hillary was the ultimate 'next in line' candidate, especially with the push to finally get a female across the POTUS finish line. Hillary was the most well-known candidate ever, since the Right did such an impeccable job smearing her and her record. And most of it came after she was out of the WH. So there was PLENTY of fodder for them to wield. Joe Biden? Not as much, which is evidenced by Trump and Giuliani's desperate attempt (i.e., colluding with Russia; impeach the ------ again!) to smear Joe Biden and his son. I mean, even on the r/Conservatives reddit page, most of the responses from the latest email leaked did nothing but show that Joe is a caring, loving father who wants his sick son to get well.

Some fnkcing bombshell! I'd imagine this was supposed to be the great October surprise. Anything else being dropped closer to November 3rd (I'm sure they are well aware) won't have near the impact it would this past week. Especially considering the number of people voting early. This was their desperate attempt and it fell flat. Anything else being dropped moving forward won't impact the election significantly.

#11 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-18 05:41 PM | Reply

Funny how that was the No. 1 issue in 2016 and it isn't even an issue at all today.
#5 | POSTED BY RCADE

You and everyone in the MSM need to get over the idea that outing hypocrisy has ANY significant impact on moving the needle. Haven't you people figured it out yet?!

NOBODY CARES ABOUT HYPOCRISY! The 24/7 news cycle requires fluff, so MSM inserts stories about hypocritical stances and comments as though people actually care about this stuff. They don't. We don't. It's pretty fnkcing clear so get over it! MSM, especially TV, has a reason to ram this crap down our throat. You don't. Wasting your and your viewers' (posters') time.

#12 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-18 05:47 PM | Reply

- but they also fear Trump more than they did 4 years ago

- Unfortunately this is still a country that has a lot of people in it who won't support a woman for president.

Gal and Rogers for the win... again.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-18 05:47 PM | Reply

I would support many women for president,AOC for one,young as she is. I would support Liz Warren a clinch. I would support Tulsi if she wasn't kinda nuts. If Klobo toned it down.

It's not that she was a Woman, she enabled Bill to be the amoral ashhole he was. She wanted war too much for my stomach. She was a lousy SOS, not compared to Pompeo maybe, but overall too aggressive and even belligerent for my taste.

Hillary had baggage and it wasn't all right wing smear. Both Clinton's did.

Clinton was impeached and he deserved to be removed. Not as much as Trump.but still,he was guilty OF PERJURY UNDER OATH WHILE PRESIDENT.

The stink clings heavy on Hillary.

Just my two cents.

#14 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-18 08:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Amen honey Amen Effeteposer. Preach it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-10-18 08:25 PM | Reply

Well, lessee.... Rogers and Gal or EffeteP and LauraBelle?

That's not that hard.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-18 08:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#13 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2020-10-18 05:47 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

Amen honey Amen Effeteposer. Preach it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#15 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

WTF?

Why was #14 censored? Come on, we don't even know what CORKY is bitching about.

#17 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-18 08:55 PM | Reply

What censorship? Looks like you don't know what you are bitching about....

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-18 09:14 PM | Reply

"Mr. Biden leads Mr. Trump, 49 percent to 19 percent, among likely voters who backed third-party candidates in 2016"

Et Tu, LauraMohr?

We should *really* run this poll here.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-18 11:16 PM | Reply

NOBODY CARES ABOUT HYPOCRISY!

Accusations of hypocrisy are a staple nutrient in the Deplorable sixth grade reading level intellectual diet.

Democrats aren't immune either, sadly.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-18 11:20 PM | Reply

Hillary was 10 times the Candidate Joe is and she lost

#21 | Posted by Maverick at 2020-10-19 10:40 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The right-wing hate-media machine was built on Hillary hatred. The slander stuck. Joe Rogan says he has to wonder whether Hillary's actually killed people, and Joe Rogan has more viewers and listeners than almost anyone

#22 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-10-19 10:44 AM | Reply

Hillary was 10 times the Candidate Joe is and she lost

#21 | Posted by Maverick at

Too bad, isn't it? Had she won we'd all be significantly richer and healthier.

#23 | Posted by Zed at 2020-10-19 10:53 AM | Reply

#21 | Posted by Maverick at

Anyone who supports Trump after the man has said (repeatedly) that he won't support a peaceful transition of power is no lover of the United States.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2020-10-19 10:58 AM | Reply

Hillary was 10 times the Candidate Joe is and she lost

#21 | Posted by Maverick at

Too bad, isn't it? Had she won we'd all be significantly richer and healthier.

#23 | POSTED BY ZED

And she was a hundred times better than criminally negligent and Impeached Trumpy and his deplorables.

Just think. We could have had a country that was a hundred times better than it is now.

Instead we have a divided nation with hundreds of thousands of dead Americans and another crashed economy for Democrats to revive.

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-19 11:22 AM | Reply

Hillary was Not ten times the candidate Biden is. That's palpably untrue. She lost. Trump turned out to be even worse than the low bar expected. But Hillary was a weak,unlikeable, and divisive candidate, if she hadn't been she would have won. The media and DNC propped her up to seem more than she was. Like all the talk about her "superdelegate" lead and all the "presumptive nominee" prattle. She deserved to lose.

Frankly,if she had won we might be involved in a major war overseas as well as dealing with this pandemic.

Not Feeling the love.

#26 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-19 11:44 AM | Reply

In 2016, nobody knew what Trump would do as president... now that America has seen Trumps approach to governing
.. most are ready for a change.

They could have video of Hunter Biden giving the president of China a happy ending and I will still vote against Trump.

#27 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2020-10-19 11:52 AM | Reply

"Joe Rogan says he has to wonder whether Hillary's actually killed people"

What a drama queen this Joe Rogan is.

Joe Rogan wouldn't vote for a President that lacks the capacity to kill someone.

Nobody would.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-19 11:55 AM | Reply

-Hillary was Not ten times the candidate Biden is. That's palpably untrue.

I agree. I think I saw someone, maybe RCADE, comment that this country wasn't ready for a woman president.

I think that's partially true and it was a factor in why many wouldn't vote for her.

However, in the eyes of a lot of people, Hillary wasn't taken seriously. the narrative for many was that she wasn't a leader, she married one, and then took every opportunity handed to her solely due to her husband's political success and tried to wrap herself in it.

It never rubbed off.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-19 12:10 PM | Reply

Far too many in this country were definitely not ready for our first woman President on the heels of our first Black President.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-19 12:22 PM | Reply

-Hillary was Not ten times the candidate Biden is. That's palpably untrue.
I agree. I think I saw someone, maybe RCADE, comment that this country wasn't ready for a woman president.
I think that's partially true and it was a factor in why many wouldn't vote for
her.
However, in the eyes of a lot of people, Hillary wasn't taken seriously. the narrative for many was that she wasn't a leader, she married one, and then took every opportunity handed to her solely due to her husband's political success and tried to wrap herself in it.
It never rubbed off.
#29 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2020-10-19 12:10 PM

There is a grain of truth. Status Quo corporate candidates can't be hidden or ignored any longer.

I have limited hope that Biden will ever solicit progressives, let alone the BLM agenda.

That said, his town hall scored far more than another out of control debate could have, imo.

#31 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-10-19 01:26 PM | Reply

That said, his town hall scored far more than another out of control debate could have, imo.
#31 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

Agreed. He unequivocally earned my vote that night.

#32 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-19 01:59 PM | Reply

That said, his town hall scored far more than another out of control debate could have, imo.
#31 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT
Agreed. He unequivocally earned my vote that night.
#32 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2020-10-19 01:59 PM

I dunno about earning my vote, but he gained some respect for staying and talking with the audience unscripted.

"Good morning my beautiful boy" made me re-think his demeanor.

He's always had my vote. There never was any doubt that to defeat Trump a coalition of public participation might sway the electorate.

I squirm a lot because the ground isn't ever quite solidified.

#33 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2020-10-19 02:14 PM | Reply

Dang near 10% of the US population has voted... with two weeks to go.

#34 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-19 11:41 PM | Reply

i know tons of things people who:

could not vote for Trump and still can't

voted for Hillary but now are voting for Trump

are more enthusiastic than ever to vote for Trump

I personally am both more for Trump and more anti Trump than 2016

#35 | Posted by drivelikejehu at 2020-10-20 01:16 AM | Reply

I voted for Bill, but hated Hillary.

I don't hate Joe.
The court packing thing keeps me from
voting for him. He's gonna lose because of it.

#36 | Posted by drivelikejehu at 2020-10-20 01:17 AM | Reply

Biden says he's not a fan of packing the Court.

And there are very few signs that he will lose because of... anything.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-20 01:29 AM | Reply

"The court packing thing keeps me from
voting for him."

Given the Republicans refused to give few if any confirmations to Obama, they essentially packed the courts under Trump. Biden would be unpacking the court if congress added 6 more justices.

#38 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-10-20 02:38 AM | Reply

... if congress added 6 more justices.

I might be on board with that. Provided, the Court is required to hear cases in random five (I could consider three) Justice panels with discretionary full court review of panel decisions. Like the circuit courts of appeal.

That would actually address a non-political problem. Currently, the Court can only hear a very limited number of cases, about a hundred per year out of tens of thousands. That expansion (packing) would address a problem.

#39 | Posted by et_al at 2020-10-20 05:33 AM | Reply

what evuhhhhh... Trumptydumpster is leaving office in disgrace

#40 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-20 06:35 AM | Reply

Biden says he's not a fan of packing the Court.

And there are very few signs that he will lose because of... anything.

#37 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2020-10-20 01:29 AM | REPLY

WON'T age well.

Hey Corky, to show your grip on reality, answer me this:
Why isn't Hillary Clinton President right now?

#41 | Posted by drivelikejehu at 2020-10-20 10:12 AM | Reply

#14 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER
#15 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

I'd like to personally thank you for ------- the country by voting third party or staying home on election day rather than voting for the lesser of two evils.

220,000 dead from Coronavirus
The White House run by the Alt-Right.
3 new Conservative Justices soon to kill voting, Obamacare, labor laws, unions, environmental laws, abortion, and any protections the LGBTQ community still has.
The financial future of people under 30 trashed.
Millions of jobs likely lost for a decade.
Poverty and Evictions soaring.
Millions losing health insurance.
Environmental Protections gutted
Labor Protections gutted
Nearly starting a war with Iran
Kids separated from their families at the border
Social Programs gutted
Corruption on levels we've never seen

Your self-centered and selfish insistence that a candidate meet your pure ideological beliefs have cost this country.

And frankly, you can shut the hell up about Hillary Clinton. Clinton was a piece of ---- but still ten times better than Trump. Your attacks on Clinton are nothing more than a pathetic deflection away from your decision to let Trump win.

#42 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-10-20 11:56 AM | Reply

"Your self-centered and selfish insistence that a candidate meet your pure ideological beliefs have cost this country."

STFU and look in the mirror. If you're going to imply that anyone other than actual Trump voters are culpable for what he's done to the country, then surely those of you who actively insulted and turned off anyone who wasn't already for your preferred candidate are even moreso than third party and non-voters.

#43 | Posted by sentinel at 2020-10-20 12:47 PM | Reply

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