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Tuesday, October 27, 2020

Levels of protective antibodies in people wane "quite rapidly" after coronavirus infection, say researchers.

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...The Imperial College London team found the number of people testing positive for antibodies has fallen by 26% between June and September.

They say immunity appears to be fading and there is a risk of catching the virus multiple times.

The news comes as figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK rose by 60% in the week of 16 October....

In the first round of testing, at the end of June and the beginning of July, about 60 in 1,000 people had detectable antibodies.

But in the latest set of tests, in September, only 44 per 1,000 people were positive.

It suggests the number of people with antibodies fell by more than a quarter between summer and autumn.

"Immunity is waning quite rapidly, we're only three months after our first [round of tests] and we're already showing a 26% decline in antibodies," said Prof Helen Ward, one of the researchers.

The fall was greater in those over 65, compared with younger age groups, and in those without symptoms compared with those with full-blown Covid-19.

The number of healthcare workers with antibodies remained relatively high, which the researchers suggest may be due to regular exposure to the virus. ...



#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 01:54 PM | Reply

Not good. Double plus ungood.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-27 03:02 PM | Reply

@#2

This makes me wonder about the long-term effectiveness of a vaccine that relies upon anti-body generation.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

btw, forgot to mention... the study in the cited article has not yet been peer-reviewed.

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 03:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This makes me wonder about the long-term effectiveness of a vaccine that relies upon anti-body generation.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

JPW can address this better, but the vaccines generally don't count on the antibodies remaining present in the bloodstream, but rather that the body knows how to recognize the virus and produce the proper antibodies when the virus is detected. There are also other immune system responses in addition to antibodies that may be just as important in fighting this particular virus.

Also, "[t]he number of healthcare workers with antibodies remained relatively high, which the researchers suggest may be due to regular exposure to the virus" would tend to indicate there might just need to be regular booster shots for a while until herd immunity is actually achieved. However, thanks to terrible responses like the U.S., U.K., and Brazil, it will be very difficult to ever eradicate this virus now. It might have been possible had the world-wide numbers been kept low enough. Now it may just be a matter of keeping it relatively in check and reducing the impact when you do get it.

From what I've understood, vaccines can often provide much longer and stronger protections than actually catching the disease can, depending on the specific responses the vaccine targets.

#5 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2020-10-27 07:18 PM | Reply

By the way, I don't know if this study had been discussed early, but the 3-month drop in antibodies aligns with something I read a couple of months ago. It does indicate that counting on herd immunity from letting the disease "burn through" the population is likely even more of a fool's errand than just the death toll would indicate. There is no way to infect a large enough segment of the population fast enough if immunity really wanes this quickly.

#6 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2020-10-27 07:22 PM | Reply

@#5

thx.

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 07:27 PM | Reply

So the Regime is going to kill a million of us to get to "herd mentality" for a few months? Then kill another million every year to stay there? WOW.

#8 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-10-27 07:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So the Regime is going to kill a million of us to get to "herd mentality" for a few months? Then kill another million every year to stay there? WOW.

#8 | POSTED BY _GUNSLINGER_ AT 2020-10-27 07:38 PM | FLAG:

Welcome to Trumplandia friend.

I hear that's a small price to pay to keep the top ten Americans wealthy.

Anyway. That's what the deplorables say.

Now it's time to hear what America says about that.

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-27 08:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

This is nonsense.

The president says once you get it you're immune.

And he wouldn't lie to us.

#10 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-27 09:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Even a vaccine will only be 50% effective. And only for those who'll take it.

We're going to have to have mandatory rules about masks and social distancing and stiff penalties for violators to get this pandemic under control. Make it socially unacceptable for anyone to disregard mitigation efforts and put others at risk.

#11 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-27 09:35 PM | Reply

Booster shots. No problem.

(Putin told me the Russian dead-virus vaccine only lasts 6 months. He promised me a raise to tell you that.)

#12 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-27 09:46 PM | Reply

An annual 330 million doses administered to every man woman and child for the forseeable future.

How could this possibly go wrong?

#13 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-27 10:11 PM | Reply

Plus emergency medical care will still have to be provided to the anti-vaxxers.

At 1% that's still 3.3 million people (mostly without insurance) clogging up emergency rooms.

#14 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-27 10:13 PM | Reply

I simply do not believe that our federal government is capable of handling this herculean task.

#15 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-27 10:14 PM | Reply

We're all about crisis governance and when a crisis hits we can't even deal with it.

#16 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-27 10:15 PM | Reply

#15 The current administration certainly can't handle it. They've already accepted defeat. They are not trying to control the pandemic.

An administration that believes in science and public health could handle it though.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-27 10:18 PM | Reply

#16 The Wuhan virus was a weapon of war. That's why China covered it up. When Swine Flu hit Mexico, they dialed 911. We found found patient zero in two weeks.

#18 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-27 10:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"#16 The Wuhan virus was a weapon of war."

And you're voting for the guy who let China kill (checks today's number) 234,084 Americans.

Why are you doing that?

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-27 10:27 PM | Reply

@#14 ... the anti-vaxxers. ...

The online anti-vaccine movement in the age of COVID-19
www.thelancet.com(20)30227-2/fulltext

...A new report by the Centre for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH) has lambasted social media companies for allowing the anti-vaccine movement to remain on their platforms. The report's authors noted that social media accounts held by so-called anti-vaxxers have increased their following by at least 78 million people since 2019.

"The decision to continue hosting known misinformation content and actors left online anti-vaxxers ready to pounce on the opportunity presented by coronavirus", stated the report. The CCDH warned that the growing anti-vaccine movement could undermine the roll-out of any future vaccine against COVID-19.

The report noted that 31 million people follow anti-vaccine groups on Facebook, with 17 million people subscribing to similar accounts on YouTube. The CCDH calculated that the anti-vaccine movement could realise US$1 billion in annual revenues for social media firms.

As much as $989 million could accrue to Facebook and Instagram alone, largely from advertising targeting the 387 million followers of anti-vaccine accounts. Huge sums indeed, but it is worth noting that, in 2019, Facebook generated revenue of $707 billion....



...

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 10:30 PM | Reply

#19 | Posted by snoofy

That's really funny coming from a guy that voted for Xi.

#21 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-27 10:34 PM | Reply

@#18 .... The Wuhan virus was a weapon of war. ...

While I disagree, let's go with that hypothesis...

OK, so China unleahed a weapon of war upon the soil of the United States?

So what did our President do to protect American people from that enemy attack on our home soil?

He joined the enemy.

Think about that.

 

 

He

Joined

The

Enemy.

 

 

You (and Pres Trump) can blame the virus upon CHina al you want.

But the fact remains, when we were attacked on our home soil, Pres Trump joined the enemy virus and helped it kill Americans.


#22 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-27 10:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#19 | Posted by snoofy
That's really funny coming from a guy that voted for Xi.
#21 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

You're far too big of a coward to answer the question; all you can do is troll.

You're just a poorer, whiter, trashier Eberly.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-27 10:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

Lamp,

Thanks for the data.

I guess I rounded way down.

That puts the figure closer to 5%

So as many as 16 million or so folks requiring care every time Covid flares up...

Let's put em in those border cages - apparently they're real nice.

#24 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-28 01:12 AM | Reply

Also heliumbrat please give it a rest.

I'm trying to paint a bleak dystopian future here not fantasy garbage.

You probably think the lord of the rings is a documentary.

#25 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2020-10-28 01:15 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He has a youtube video proving that LoR is a documentary about Hunter Biden.

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-28 01:28 AM | Reply

OK, so China unleahed a weapon of war upon the soil of the United States?

So what did our President do to protect American people from that enemy attack on our home soil?

What do you expect from a guy who collects millions in rent from the Chinese government?

www.forbes.com

"President Donald Trump, who declared "I don't make money from China" in Thursday night's presidential debate, has in fact collected millions of dollars from government-owned entities in China since he took office. Forbes estimates that at least $5.4 million has flowed into the president's business from a lease agreement involving a state-owned bank in Trump Tower. "

At least Trump stood up to Putin when he put bounties on the lives of our soldiers...oh...wait.

#27 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-10-28 09:09 AM | Reply

I think this is the next evolution in fighting influenza. After 1918, they created vaccines. This time, vaccines aren't working as well and the virus is starting to mutate faster than vaccines can help. The last few months they have made remarkable progress on antibody persistence as a side-effect of covid research. I think instead of coming out with a cure or vaccine that can meet today's viruses, they are going to find a way to prolong the impacts of the vaccines so that people are less likely to contract it again over a period of years.

#28 | Posted by humtake at 2020-10-28 12:22 PM | Reply

"What do you expect from a guy who collects millions in rent from the Chinese government?"

"President Donald Trump, who declared "I don't make money from China" in Thursday night's presidential debate, has in fact collected millions of dollars from government-owned entities in China since he took office. Forbes estimates that at least $5.4 million has flowed into the president's business from a lease agreement involving a state-owned bank in Trump Tower. "

This is the rhetoric that destroys this country. Instead of being the bigger person, it always comes down to "So what, the other person does it too". Journalism and research is dumbed down year after year.

#29 | Posted by humtake at 2020-10-28 12:24 PM | Reply

"This time, vaccines aren't working as well"

Hey dummy.

It takes time to create vaccines.

We don't have vaccines for SARS-CoV-2 yet.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-28 12:28 PM | Reply

This is the rhetoric that destroys this country.

#29 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

Telling the truth destroys no one but Donald Trump.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2020-10-28 12:36 PM | Reply

#22 China didn't unleash it purpose - some idiot dropped a vial. The Wuhan lab, about two miles from the first reported case in a wet market, was widely criticized for being a sieve.

#32 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-28 12:46 PM | Reply

#31 The truth has been censored and paved over with lies. Look at the Hunter Biden story: the FBI and DOJ have verified those where Hunters e-mails, and no those aren't Russian deep fakes of him naked with naked kids. He tells Joe about it in his e-mails.

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-28 12:49 PM | Reply

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat

Disinformation.

Shame on you.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2020-10-28 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hrat has never seen any Rudy G purchased Russian-Ukrainian fake kompromat that doesn't turn him on.

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-28 01:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

JPW can address this better, but the vaccines generally don't count on the antibodies remaining present in the bloodstream, but rather that the body knows how to recognize the virus and produce the proper antibodies when the virus is detected. There are also other immune system responses in addition to antibodies that may be just as important in fighting this particular virus.

Vaccines are about developing antibodies. One of their shortcomings is they often times are too antibody skewed and don't induce as "complete" of an immune response.

However, vaccines are nice because we can control what you're developing antibodies to (can overcome pathogen decoy measures), can boost immunity with follow up inoculations and can form immunological memory. The last one is critical in cases where a virus short circuits the process and because it means you always have some level of circulating antibodies present ready to inhibit their target pathogen and induce a memory immune response.

The final point above is critical as vaccines often don't induce the arguably more important arm of the immune system, T cell immunity. There is a subset of T cells called CD8 T cells that recognize infected cells and kill them in order to limit infection. Much research has gone into how to induce antibody and T cell immunity (more "complete") responses and the use of the adenovirus vectors (Oxford vaccine) aims to do that.

#36 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-28 01:20 PM | Reply

#31 The truth has been censored and paved over with lies. Look at the Hunter Biden story: the FBI and DOJ have verified those where Hunters e-mails, and no those aren't Russian deep fakes of him naked with naked kids. He tells Joe about it in his e-mails.
#33 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been arrested? Why hasn't the shop owner been arrested for replicating and disseminating CP? Why hasn't Rudy tried to make this a bigger deal sooner that would have, ideally, kept Hunter Biden from victimizing more children?

Why is Hunter Biden's connection to this election more important than saving a child from rape?

#37 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-28 01:26 PM | Reply

I think this is the next evolution in fighting influenza. After 1918, they created vaccines. This time, vaccines aren't working as well and the virus is starting to mutate faster than vaccines can help.

What?

We haven't begun using vaccines yet against COVID and, as a matter of basic virology, coronaviruses mutate far slower than other RNA viruses.

The last few months they have made remarkable progress on antibody persistence as a side-effect of covid research.

Link?

I think instead of coming out with a cure or vaccine that can meet today's viruses, they are going to find a way to prolong the impacts of the vaccines so that people are less likely to contract it again over a period of years.

#28 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

The holy grail has been the development of so called "universal vaccines" that are given against one type of virus (ie influenza A) and can act against all the variants of influenza A so you don't need repeated vaccinations.

Problem is viruses are wily little things that aren't very cooperative.

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-28 01:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@ JPW:

Might social engineering be the only way to effectively combat the virus till next spring?

#39 | Posted by Tor at 2020-10-28 01:28 PM | Reply

The Wuhan lab, about two miles from the first reported case in a wet market, was widely criticized for being a sieve.

#32 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

So why then is China's economy already booming and ours is in the trumpster dumpster? Doesn't that seem wrong?

It actually is reasonable that China is very happy about this situation and may have actively enabled it knowing they could crack down and we won't be able to.

If we had a functional CDC and were still a member of WHO and Trump didn't have his foot in the neck of the FBI and CIA maybe, just maybe, we could actually get to the bottom of what happened.

But not now. Not in Trumplandia.

Winning?

#40 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-28 01:38 PM | Reply

#39 | POSTED BY TOR

I wouldn't call it social engineering but yes, measures like masks, isolation, hand washing ect are what will get us through the winter until a vaccine is approved.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-28 02:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"measures like masks, isolation, hand washing ect are what will get us through the winter"

That'll also give us the mildest (regular) flu season in recent history. A small silver lining, but still a positive.

#42 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-10-28 02:15 PM | Reply

Covid: Antibodies 'Fall Rapidly After Infection'

I suspect this will do little to effect Trump supporters "herd mentality".

#43 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-10-28 02:18 PM | Reply

This makes me wonder about the long-term effectiveness of a vaccine that relies upon anti-body generation.

#3 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2020-10-27 03:06 PM | FLAG:

Existing, commonly used vaccines that rely on anti-body generation also wanes over time. That's what a booster shot is for, bringing an administered vaccine back to standard effectiveness.

#44 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-10-29 09:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yet bringing a vaccine from lab to public deployment proceeds at a glacial pace, and it's a costly expedition. "From the creation of the idea to having a marketable vaccine is usually seven to 10 years or more, and about 1 billion U.S. dollars," says Gregory A. Poland, MD, director of the Mayo Vaccine Research Group.

www.aamc.org

#45 | Posted by moonunit at 2020-10-29 12:26 PM | Reply

"We haven't begun using vaccines yet against COVID and, as a matter of basic virology, coronaviruses mutate far slower than other RNA viruses."

If you read news regularly, you will see they have developed many possible vaccines that were deprecated because the virus became resistant to it in labs very quickly. These vaccines never see the light of day because they are already proven ineffective before going to next stages. It's not always about mutations seen in the wild. They also test in labs any mutations that occur due to vaccines they are testing.

#46 | Posted by humtake at 2020-10-29 12:28 PM | Reply

#31 The truth has been censored and paved over with lies.

#33 | Posted by HeliumRat

Yeah it's called THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY.

Remember when he told you he'd divest himself from his businesses?

Remembe when he told you he never paid stormy daniels?

Remember when he told you he had secret proof obama was born in kenya?

Remember when he said he had a secret plan for better cheaper healthcare?

Remember when he said no quid pro quo?

You're voting for more lies sucker.

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-10-29 01:50 PM | Reply

#46 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

I'm a virologist. I've seen vaccine studies taken from start to finish in the preclinical phase (animal work).

The only studies I've seen about COVID mutations are about a particular mutation that is thought to increase the viral particle's stability in the environment. I have not heard anything about mutations in RBD domains to evade vaccines or antibodies.

And yes, they test for the development of resistance to a vaccine but it's absolutely about mutations found in the wild. Selective pressures exerted in a tissue culture dish in a lab are of academic interest but require context of human data to be useful.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-29 02:02 PM | Reply

"If you read news regularly, you will see they have developed many possible vaccines that were deprecated because the virus became resistant to it in labs very quickly."

This sounds like hot, liquid --------.
Link?

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-29 02:20 PM | Reply

"I wouldn't call it social engineering but yes, measures like masks, isolation, hand washing etc are what will get us through the winter until a vaccine is approved."

I don't understand why the phrase social engineering has a negative connotation.

There are no civilizations which are not the product of social engineering.

What's important though is we agree we need such messures.

#50 | Posted by Tor at 2020-10-29 02:21 PM | Reply

"I don't understand why the phrase social engineering has a negative connotation."

It has a specific meaning in the hacker and by extension security community.

Social engineering is what used to be called a confidence scheme, which most people just call a con. For instance, Donnie is a con man.

It basically means tricking people into giving up their passwords, or doing other things they shouldn't.

It does not mean whatever you are talking about.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-29 02:26 PM | Reply

Thanks snoof.

wetware hacking would be a better description of what Russia is doing IMHO.

#52 | Posted by Tor at 2020-10-29 02:37 PM | Reply

Well, the term social engineering as been in use for at least 20 years. I remember hearing it at H2K, and probably before.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-29 02:48 PM | Reply

So booster shots every 6 months from the Russian vaccine and the Wuhan virus will go away in the wild. Problem solved.

Thanks Putin!

P.S. where's my check?

#54 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-29 04:51 PM | Reply

#47 Remember when Hillary made up Russiagate to stage a coup?

I'll take the lesser evil.

Trump 2020.

#55 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-29 04:53 PM | Reply

#40 The WHO enabled China, which pays half it's bills. The originally called it COVID-20 to "not cause confusion".

They where played like a fiddle.

#56 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-29 04:55 PM | Reply

I'll take the lesser evil.
Trump 2020.
#55 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Earth to RAT, Hillary is not running...and not charged with anything. Pull your head out of the sand, this is 2020.

#57 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-10-29 04:57 PM | Reply

Trump 2020.
#55 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

This I never doubted.

You're clearly a racist.

Trump's here for your needs.

#58 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-10-29 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Hillary is not running"

Doesn't matter.

Contemporary Republicans are so misogynist, they're going to keep voting against Hillary for the rest of their lives.

Haters gonna hate.

Someone should really tell Eberly, before it's too late!

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-29 05:04 PM | Reply

#57 Do not apologize for a MAP. (#MAP's)

#60 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-29 05:48 PM | Reply

#47 Remember when Hillary made up Russiagate to stage a coup?

I'll take the lesser evil.

Trump 2020.

#55 | Posted by HeliumRat

What's paul manafort in jail for dumbass?

#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-10-29 07:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

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