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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 28, 2020

Wall Street shuddered Wednesday, with stocks falling sharply amid an alarming rise in coronavirus counts with less than a week of voting remaining before the presidential election. [T]he Republican-controlled Senate adjourned until Nov. 9, after confirming Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court ... ensur[ing] that a deal to pump hundreds of billions of dollars into the economy, with aid delivered to struggling households and floundering small businesses, would not arrive until after the election.

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The uncertainty over when the next round of coronavirus relief will pass is also complicated by the election, which may change the power dynamics in Washington. Senate Republicans have rejected provisions for a larger stimulus deal even as President Trump has publicly called for greater spending. Congressional Democrat have already passed a multitrillion dollar relief bill dubbed the Heroes Act.
Guess Wall Street hasn't gotten the memo from the White House that the pandemic has been officially declared over with.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No doubt while Trumpy, McConnell and friends short sell.

This is the America that GOPhers voted for. Enjoy watching your retirement funds collapse to make billionaires wealthier.

#2 | Posted by censored at 2020-10-28 10:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Down 800 15 minutes before close.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 03:46 PM | Reply

The DOW means nothing except to make Trump's billionaire friends rich.
~the left

#4 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-10-28 03:54 PM | Reply

The biggest threat to any recovery is another Trump term.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2020-10-28 04:02 PM | Reply

I expected a rocky road earlier in the election season through the election itself so I made some moves.

Now it appears I made a good move....but even after the election, the pandemic is still going to be a big issue.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-28 04:06 PM | Reply

"The biggest threat to any recovery is another Trump term.
#5 | POSTED BY CORKY"

That must be why the DOW set records with Trump.
The see bitem ahead and the DOW drops.
The proof must hurt.

#7 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-10-28 04:09 PM | Reply

The DOW means nothing except to make Trump's billionaire friends rich.

~the left

The Dow is not the same as the overall economy. THAT is what Trump's critics say because it's true.

The Dow is one economic indicator, it's not the only one. That is why the Dow is falling today - Americans are getting sicker, broker, and the only thing Mitch McConnell cares about is cramming federal judges onto the bench, even though the Chairman of the Federal Reserve begged the Government to provide stimulus to American families and businesses.

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 04:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not even the Dow Jones escapes being politicized.

It's heralded as a representation of our economy by Left when it goes down, but not when it goes up.

At least the right is consistent on this one. they consider it a representation of our economy regardless of what it does.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-28 04:13 PM | Reply

but even after the election, the pandemic is still going to be a big issue.

Please explain that to Uncle Phester. He doesn't have a clue.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 04:13 PM | Reply

It's heralded as a representation of our economy by Left when it goes down, but not when it goes up.

BS. The market is not always tied to MAIN STREET, that is all the left says with repetition. Investors need to make returns on their investments or the economy cannot function. No one begrudges them this unless others suffer while those few reap success.

It's the reasons why the market rises or falls that may bring criticism. The Fed dumped trillions into the markets when the pandemic hit, consumers were not so blessed. Hundreds of billions have been made by the top tiers of our society while millions struggle to pay the bills and keep food on the table while the Dow continued to climb after a short quick fall.

Everything isn't binary. The real world is complicated and simplistic explanations never cover all its changing dynamics.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#8 ... The Dow is not the same as the overall economy. THAT is what Trump's critics say because it's true. ...

Not just critics of Pres Trump, but pretty much everyone on Wall Street.

The economy is not the market.

The market is not the economy.


btw, and fwiw, the DOW closed down about 940 points.


#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-28 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-The market is not always tied to MAIN STREET, that is all the left says with repetition.

That's not heard here with a great amount of repetition....what I see written is the market is removed from main street.......and again, that's written only when the market is going up.

#13 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-28 04:32 PM | Reply

Bloomberg said they were waaaaaaaay overvalued for weeks now. Too many stock buybacks over-inflating and 0% interest rates Fed propping them up...thingies like that... seems to be playing out that way

#14 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-28 04:36 PM | Reply

It's about uncertainty.

It always is.

Previously predicted dates of having a vaccine, reduced shutdowns, overall economic activity related to COVID.....those previous assumptions are being questioned and the uncertainty of 2021 is driving this.

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-28 04:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Previously predicted dates of having a vaccine, reduced shutdowns, overall economic activity related to COVID.....those previous assumptions are being questioned and the uncertainty of 2021 is driving this.

A LOT of this comes back on Trump because he's constantly exaggerating (economy) or minimizing (covid cases) information. He's indecisive (relief fund...one minute he's in the next he's over it) and purposely vague when it comes to our response to the pandemic.

In short, he's a liar. We already knew that, and I assume Wall Street does as well. But what to do when you can't trust the information coming out of the government???

If Trump does anything well, it is to add uncertainty.

#16 | Posted by horstngraben at 2020-10-28 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"btw, and fwiw, the DOW closed down about 940 points."

Pftt means nothing.
~the left ...and you know it.

#17 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-10-28 04:59 PM | Reply

That's not heard here with a great amount of repetition....what I see written is the market is removed from main street.......and again, that's written only when the market is going up.

#13 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Probably because Main Street gains little benefit from the ups while taking the brunt of the downs.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-28 05:04 PM | Reply

The next clown extraction needs to be Ted Cruz

#19 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-28 05:06 PM | Reply

"Previously predicted dates of having a vaccine, reduced shutdowns, overall economic activity related to COVID.....those previous assumptions are being questioned and the uncertainty of 2021 is driving this."

Seriously?

Who predicted a vaccine in time for the election.... other than Trump and ignorant Republicans?

Wall Street isn't dumb enough to listen to Trump.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-28 05:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"what I see written is the market is removed from main street"

Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

There's your disconnect.

Notice also that losses are not mentioned as being disconnected.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-28 05:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Notice also that losses are not mentioned as being disconnected.

Losses are socialized through our tax code write offs and depreciation provisions. When the markets go up, the players win. When the markets go down, the taxpayers lose. And the players just keep on playing.

If it weren't for write offs Trump would likely be completely broke right now according to the tax records that have surfaced publicly. If his losses weren't subsidized by American taxpayers Trump would already be in jail for criminal fraud.

#22 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Losses are socialized through our tax code write offs and depreciation provisions."

That's what incorpoartion does: It shields the individual from financial responsibility for their actions.

Socializing losses is the essence of Capitalism.

We can count the number of DR Republicans who understand that on one hand, and still have all five fingers free for ----- grabbing!

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-10-28 05:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

You deserve both flags for #23, but my first inclination was to laugh out loud - so you got a FF.

#24 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-28 06:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#23 ... That's what incorpoartion does: It shields the individual from financial responsibility for their actions.

Socializing losses is the essence of Capitalism. ...

Which is why the LLC (limited liability company) was created, so smaller entities can partake in the benefits of such responsibility shielding.

#25 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-10-28 06:06 PM | Reply

There isn't going to be a recovery.

#26 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2020-10-28 07:46 PM | Reply

There isn't going to be a recovery.

#26 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT AT 2020-10-28 07:46 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

Not as long as Dotard occupies the WH and continues to wave the white flag at COVID. The first step to any meaningful recovery is to control the virus, mandatory masking, so that people, ALL PEOPLE feel comfortable going back to the marketplace. Right now, Cult45 are the only people who feel comfortable risking COVID, but they're not enough to power the economy.

#27 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-10-28 08:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

------- has not been twittlering about this.

It's comprised of two factors...

1. The third COVID surge that is clear the red states and ------- won't do anything to try to get under control.

2. The senate choosing to go on vacation instead of providing any more COVID relief to taxpayers.

#28 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-10-29 07:24 AM | Reply

but they're not enough to power the economy.

There are already two mortgages on their double wides.

#29 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-10-29 07:25 AM | Reply

Eberly, When I want some information about insurance I will ask you.

But since you are the self-appointed DR expert on the stock market's relationship with the overall economy I'm going to go ahead and talk insurance.

Obviously the lower the premium, the better insurance. By having lower premiums it means you have more money to spend on other things. Why anyone would want to pay more for insurance is beyond me.

All those other words and numbers in a policy is just gibberish trying to keep the 1 percent rich.

Always choose the lower premium because that's all that matters.

Right?

#30 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-10-29 10:23 AM | Reply

That must be why the DOW set records with Trump.
The see bitem ahead and the DOW drops.
The proof must hurt.

#7 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

More than 80,000 cases and vaccines won't be ready until 2021.

Europe is shutting down again. What we see ahead of us a Dark Winter.

The Dow has set records alright. Going down and going up and now going down again. Like Mr Toads Wild Ride. But the Feds are running out of money to prop up the markets. Like he is running out of money for his campaign of Lies.

But I see you are at least conscious of the fact that Biden is winning.

The proof is in the pudding. And the pudding is full of the Trumpy Virus.

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-29 10:23 AM | Reply

"you are the self-appointed DR expert on the stock market's...."

read the threads....I'm not even remotely close to the level of expertise espoused here by a whole lot of folks.

"All those other words and numbers in a policy is just gibberish trying to keep the 1 percent rich."

That's why people hire me to help them.

"Always choose the lower premium because that's all that matters."

well, no in most cases.

Depends on what kind of risk you are (personal lines vs commercial vs large commercial, etc)

give me an example of a scenario.....I'd be happy to help.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 10:33 AM | Reply

#32

Honestly, beyond renter's insurance I'm out of the insurance game. I'm a big off the grid hippy (that happens to be an economist). I'm halfway serious about what I wrote about premiums. But I do respect there is a lot of variables for people with more appreciable assets.

I mean it when I'm sure you have the insurance game down pat.

Now.... back to the stock market.

You are flat out wrong when you say Democrats only care about the Dow when it goes down. In fact most of us say the opposite, when the Dow is up and people are starving, it is exactly the scenario that drives us nuts because Republicans use that as cover for a worsening Main Street economy.

When the Dow is down, it's important because it means the economy can't even be cosmetically covered up.

More or less the stock market being up can hide flaws in the economy for some (at least my 401k is growing), but a down stock market exposes everything.

A good stock market and a growing economy is optimal of course, but a propped up stock market is essentially an attractive person that smokes and only eats fried food.
The focus on the stock market over other indicators (like Consumer Confidence-shameless plug) offer far more insight into the health of the Main Street economy.

Does the stock market come into play? Certainly, but it is way more complex than a binary relationship. It's actually a weird sort of client-server relationship at best.

#33 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-10-29 10:44 AM | Reply

"You are flat out wrong when you say Democrats only care about the Dow when it goes down."

I didn't say that.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 11:08 AM | Reply

"I mean it when I'm sure you have the insurance game down pat."

Thank you....it's good to be a specialist especially in the times we are going to face in the insurance industry for the next 2-4 years. It's going to be rough on the policy holders.

The industries we specialize in will be more tolerant of the environment we'll face than other industries. IOW, my competitors who are more generalists in the commercial space will suffer more than we will.

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 11:12 AM | Reply

"Democrats only care about the Dow when it goes down."

I didn't say that.
#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY

what I see written is the market is removed from main street.......and again, that's written only when the market is going up.

#13 | POSTED BY EBERLY

But you implied it.

#36 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-29 11:14 AM | Reply

36

No, I didn't. You're just saying that.

I stated that folks (like you for example) attach the stock market and the overall economy closely when the market is moving downward.

And when the market is climbing, you reduce that attachment to almost nothing.

Any objective person would stick the same attachment regardless....but very few people are objective on this issue.

And then people go on about the fed propping up the stock market and stock buy backs, etc (things very few people understand) and how it's all fake anyway.


#37 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 11:21 AM | Reply

Re #37

So summarizing post 37:

"Democrats (like me!) only care about the Dow when it goes down."

And ignore it when it goes up.

Got it.

#38 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-29 11:24 AM | Reply

#37

You did imply what I posted in 33, you did whether your realize it or not.

But it's not true. We have been railing about the stock market being a cosmetic cover propped up by fed money and cheap interest rates, which help big investors exponentially more than average Joes.

Your statement, "And when the market is climbing, you reduce that attachment to almost nothing" is selective attention by you.

It's more NOTICIABLE when the market is down, but people like me have been saying what you claim isn't said from the rooftops.

#39 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-10-29 11:25 AM | Reply

"So summarizing post 37:"

you suck at summarizing so stop. or summarize someone else.

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 11:34 AM | Reply

Bocaink, I wasn't calling folks like you out specifically.....it was a general statement.

Statement I continue to stand by.

The Dow gets politicized...I stand by that
The left politicizes the dow with inconsistency.....I stand by that.

The right thinks the dow means everything.....which is incorrect as I tend to agree that it's 1 indicator but not the whole story.

#41 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 11:38 AM | Reply

#41

"The left politicizes the dow with inconsistency.....I stand by that."

I profoundly disagree with your broad brush. I guess we will have to leave it at that.

#42 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-10-29 12:06 PM | Reply

More circumlocutions by Eberly.My favorite Feeb on the retort. You did say what Donnerboy asserted, his summations were spot on.

Why so much -------- Eb's? You're only fooling yourself,not anyone here.

#43 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-29 12:06 PM | Reply

-You did say what Donnerboy asserted

nope. not even close. You, Bocaink and Donner are accusing me of "implying" something....not saying it. Admit that and move on.

The only one of you making a decent argument is Bocaink even though he's disagreeing with me.

Which is fair.

But I didn't say that you care about the stock market on some days and not others.....I said you believe it's tied closer to the economy when it goes down and not so much when it goes up.

That's a general and yes a broadbrush statement that may or may not apply to you.

Get over it.

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 12:18 PM | Reply

All this hate and just a day later the GD is reported as significantly increasing. Does your foot feel tasty after going in your mouth?

#45 | Posted by humtake at 2020-10-29 12:30 PM | Reply

#37

And to be precise on this comment "And when the market is climbing, you reduce that attachment to almost nothing."

The words "attachment to almost nothing" isn't accurate.

It's the attachment to Federal money that does not necessarily mean real gains for the potential consumers of the industries whose markets for which they need demand.

It's liposuction when a quadruple bypass is needed. Center-Left, and even far Left economists agree to this point, again it may not be something as noticeable as when the Dow plunges 800 points and everyone can point to Trump's erraticism and the Senate's inability to negotiate a stimulus package, but the attention has been there this whole time and fairly loudly.

But honestly I don't see this even as a political issue, you may disagree, and that's fine.

But the battle is really simply you either accept Supply Side Economics or you reject it.

The evidence shows that Supply Side is a failure for the grand majority of the population and the fiscal stability of the U.S.

It also shows that Neo-Keynesianism with Chicago-style inflation controls build slow, but sustainable economic growth. Is there a better way, maybe, probably. But we are comparing a plus 2 to a negative 8 right now.

#46 | Posted by bocaink at 2020-10-29 12:30 PM | Reply

#44 You get over yourself. I notice a slippery pattern of parsing Everything in deceptive and self serving ways. Why are you so consistently "misunderstood"?

Mealy mouthed unclear thinking that is an unsuccessful attempt to not be held to ANY consistent position on Anything.

You're fooling yourself maybe,not us.

And I call myself "Poser". You're the real thing

#47 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-29 12:41 PM | Reply

-Why are you so consistently "misunderstood"?

by the same group of people, including you?

Hmmmmm....one wonders.

#48 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 12:43 PM | Reply

I know, it's all us. Never You. Humm I wonder,maybe you just don't see your own,actions. Self delusion is strong with this one.

Get over it.

#49 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-29 12:52 PM | Reply

All this hate and just a day later the GD is reported as significantly increasing. Does your foot feel tasty after going in your mouth?

#45 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

That's not what it appears. Even Fox Business doesn't paint it as a rosy picture.

www.foxbusiness.com

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2020-10-29 01:08 PM | Reply

49

Oh, I could work harder and go the lengths necessary to qualify and clarify every single thing I write that's not in lockstep agreement with you to make it easier for you to comprehend it.

But being my way is part of the fun.

So, yes....I realize I bring this on myself.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 01:10 PM | Reply

No you're just self important and deluded about the value of your own opinions. You are vague to avoid really being understood. Being misunderstood is the point,and a sign of self perceived weakness. You don't WANT to parlay in good faith. You want a back door escape hatch.

You can always claims others don't get what you really mean. It's slippery, and beneath honest discourse.

It reminds me of why I hate Bill Clinton and everything about the Clinton brand.

#52 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-29 01:22 PM | Reply

That must be why the DOW set records with Trump.
The see bitem ahead and the DOW drops.
The proof must hurt.
#7 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

As usual, you are a MORON!

The Dow set records during the Obama Administration as well, but I don't recall you cultists giving him credit for it. The Dow under President Obama was remarkably stable, a generally smoothe upward trend. Of course President Obama, knowing the Dow does not reflect the economy and that the majority of Americans are not invested in the markets, didn't trumpet gains in the Dow. Dotard has pinned his Presidency to stock markets. He's found that pointing to a number is easier for you mouthbreathers to understand that economic indicators that actually reflect the economy.

The Dow doesn't reflect the economy, it's merely a casino where the wealthy play with their winnings from GOP tax cuts. It doesn't create or build anything, it doesn't create jobs or build infrastructure or even create wealth, it's simply online gambling on a massive scale. Of the 20 largest daily point losses for the Dow, ALL HAVE OCCURRED DURING THE REIGN OF COMBOVER QUISLING, and this has been during a period of relative peace and prosperity. Seriously! It's almost as if people are making a ton of money selling short on expected Tweets from Agolf Twittler. I expect once Dems have control, and investigations begin, we'll find that Drumpf, Jared and their rich friends have been gaming the DOW this entire time making billions of dollars. Buy big on a stock for a drug company right before Dotard claims it's the new cure for COVID, sell short on bad economic news before others know about it. I have no doubt this is what's going on, how else would you explain it?
en.wikipedia.org

The Economist, hardly a conservative publication, just endorsed Biden as being better for the country and the economy. Moody's has actually said a blue wave would be the best thing for the economy. Here's Forbes take on the Moody's report: "Moody's analyzed four potential outcomes for the November presidential election: A total Democratic sweep; a total Republican sweep; Democrats winning the presidency and the House but not the Senate; and status quo with Trump in the White House, Democrats controlling the House and Republicans holding the Senate. Based on the economic proposals of both President Trump and Biden, "the economic outlook is strongest under the scenario in which Biden and the Democrats sweep Congress and fully adopt their economic agenda," said Moody's Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi."

Even billionaires, who know their taxes will go up under a Biden presidency tell Forbes they're voting for Biden.
www.forbes.com

#53 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2020-10-29 03:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-You don't WANT to parlay in good faith. You want a back door escape hatch.

I have no idea what that means.....seriously.

just move on, Effetetrumpvoter.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 03:19 PM | Reply

You're too dumb to take seriously. If you don't know what that means, look it up. To parlay is to debate or exchange points of view,something you never do in good faith. Too -----------, I guess? But you do you.

Always yourself,always an ass.

#55 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-10-29 03:38 PM | Reply

55

I'm pissing you off without any effort at all.

Here...now I'll try to piss you off....I'm going to go out and vote for DONALD J TRUMP.

How do you like them apples?

Oh wait.......you already did that once......I guess you already know how that feels. LOL

#56 | Posted by eberly at 2020-10-29 03:49 PM | Reply

I'm going to go out and vote for DONALD J TRUMP.

Kansas is going to Trump, regardless of who you or Laura vote for.

#57 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-10-29 04:04 PM | Reply

The Dow set records during the Obama Administration as well, but I don't recall you cultists giving him credit for it.

They were too busy interviewing his Kenyan, Muslim brother to notice.

Nothing Democrats have flung at Trump comes close to the eight years of constant attacks Obama endured.

#58 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-10-29 04:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

the Dow surged 11,783 points while Obama was in office rising from 7,949 the day of his inauguration to 19,732, a 148% increase over the eight years. It also rose by 13,185 points from its March 2009 low.

www.forbes.com

#59 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-10-29 04:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ironically, the stimulus will only work if we tax the bejeezus out of the uber-wealthy in order to see a return on the taxpayer investment. If we don't it only serves as a second gigantic transfer of wealth from the taxpayer to the 1%.

#60 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2020-10-29 11:49 PM | Reply

All this hate and just a day later the GD is reported as significantly increasing. Does your foot feel tasty after going in your mouth?

#45 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

No hate. The stock market is freaking.

Just observing. Not hating. Where do you get that? Oh right. Projecting.

The GD(P) is basically back where it was before the last quarter. But has really not "gained" anything.

Check your 401k. If you have money attached to the stock market you just lost a lot.

It's not a good time for you to retire. Or get a job if you lost yours in the pandemic. It is a good time to be Chinese. In China.

China Has the V-Shaped Recovery of Which Trump Can Only Dream

#61 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-10-30 11:16 AM | Reply

And another selloff today (Friday). Haven't heard Trump brag about the stock market ...

It's as though fate is dealing Trump his own hand the final 3 days before election day; We may reach 100,000 new cases a day, no stimulus was passed, and Wall Street can see the writing on the wall that the country and economy are about to enter a dark phase because of Trump's lassez faire, tragic mismanagement of the pandemic.

#62 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-10-30 01:44 PM | Reply

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