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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, November 16, 2020

The Trump campaign's legal strategy has come down to this: Even as judges dismiss lawsuits as baseless, it files nearly identical ones in new courts, hoping for more favorable judges. Failure has not slowed it down.

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These cases as pointed out in other posts dance on a tightrope that is going to get some of these lawyers penalized sooner or later.

#1 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-11-16 09:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I hear Judge Judy is available.

#2 | Posted by madscientist at 2020-11-16 10:08 AM | Reply

You mean this kind of fact?

www.foxnews.com

#3 | Posted by humtake at 2020-11-16 11:39 AM | Reply

Judge Humtake just needs his appointment to be confirmed.

#4 | Posted by moder8 at 2020-11-16 01:25 PM | Reply

#3 | Posted by humtake

Not even sure where that comment came from about this topic?

To be honest though, AOC is a bit much for most Democrats. The media likes her because she generates clicks. She enjoys working the spotlight. Frankly she made an oopsie not understanding the House is still Democratic control. That's kind of a hard one to understand.

And Defund the police is about as dumb of a slogan as BLM or ALM.

#5 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-11-16 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You mean this kind of fact?
www.foxnews.com

#3 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

And here is your Fox News deflection biscuit.

She mis spoke. And I am sure she will not continue or double down on that mistake. Unlike her Republican colleagues and the bigly Denier in Chief (DIC) who still cannot admit that he lost. Bigly.

#6 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-16 02:20 PM | Reply

Trump's New Pennsylvania Suit Abandons Fraud Claims, State Says
www.bloomberg.com

...The Trump campaign's amended lawsuit seeking to block Pennsylvania from certifying the election result backtracks entirely on the president's voter-fraud claims and should be thrown out immediately, the state's top elections official said Monday.

A revised suit filed by the campaign Sunday evening abandoned several key claims and now hinges on a single allegation that some Democratic-leaning counties improperly allowed an unspecified number of voters to fix or "cure" minor errors on their ballots, Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar said in a filing in federal court in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.

President Donald Trump has been flooding his Twitter feed with unsubstantiated allegations that rampant voter fraud in Pennsylvania and other swing states led to a "rigged" election. But numerous lawsuits that included generalized claims of fraud have failed in court since Nov. 3.

"Plaintiffs fail to identify how one county's offering an opportunity for a voter to cure his or her defective ballot before the close of the polls could possibly burden the rights of a voter in a separate county," Boockvar said. "It could not; there is no suggestion that the voters who sought to cure' their ballots did so fraudulently or sought to have two votes count in the election."...


#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-16 02:25 PM | Reply

You mean this kind of fact?
#3 | Posted by humtake

Ha, that's not a fact. This is a fact.

"With an overwhelming number of losses and withdrawals of cases, there is no path for the Trump campaign to overturn the results in a single state, much less states making up more than 36 electoral college votes.
...
There is no path. Rudy Giuliani can say what he wants and the President can keep declaring that he's won, but there's no plausible legal way this election gets overturned. ..." https://electionlawblog.org/?p=118703

#8 | Posted by et_al at 2020-11-16 02:38 PM | Reply

You mean this kind of fact?
www.foxnews.com

#3 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

Cool story but it has nothing to do with anything. Now what do you think of the current President disrupting and deplaying attempts at a peaceful transition of power to the winner of the election? Are you upset that the President is putting the security of the country at risk with his lies and childish behavior?

#9 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2020-11-16 03:11 PM | Reply

She mis spoke.

#6 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

She didn't mis-speak.

The House is chaos. Always. Too many Reps, some from extreme right or left districts and some from moderate districts.

You have a large majority or you don't really have control. Especially for Dems.

#10 | Posted by Sycophant at 2020-11-16 04:28 PM | Reply

I love how much influence AOC has.

She and people like her, who were inspired Bernie, are the future of the Democratic Party.

Or. Whatever party we end up being.

I have no doubt Joe will play the next four years very strategically. In hopes of unifying the party.

Best of luck to him.

Because 2024 is just around the corner.

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 04:48 PM | Reply

Because 2024 is just around the corner.

You incessantly show just how politically ignorant that you are - and why progressives will remain their own worst enemies by completely misunderstanding American governance.

2022 is far more important - and dispositive - than 2024. First and foremost, winning the 2 seats in GA is paramount in whether 2020 will be noted as anything more than a temporary hold on GOP intransigence in the first place.

If the Democrats don't choose candidates that can win in the districts they represent, then the GOP will continue in the majority and the Dems will remain under their considerable boot heel, period. And progressivism will suffer the worst because of it.

#12 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 05:07 PM | Reply

-2022 is far more important - and dispositive - than 2024.

It would be nice if the democratic party could maintain some momentum and continue with a large turnout in a mid-terms.

Poor turnouts in mid-terms have harmed democrats for a long time.

#13 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 05:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Poor turnouts in mid-terms have harmed democrats for a long time.

Because too many people only think in 4 year/presidential cycles. Real party activists stay engaged EVERY YEAR because any lapse or retreat only makes the next cycle harder and harder to maintain or gain from the last.

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 05:17 PM | Reply

A big part of our representation at the state and federal level is up for re-election every 2 years....it's as if a lot of people really don't understand that.

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 05:21 PM | Reply

You incessantly show just how politically ignorant that you are

That's why I come to the DR.

To have political scholars, such as yourself, educate me.

and why progressives will remain their own worst enemies by completely misunderstanding American governance.

Actually, conservatives and moderates are progressives worst enemy.

But sure. We're our own enemies as well.

2022 is far more important - and dispositive - than 2024.

2022 is important. Absolutely. But both 2022 and 2024 have a new obstacle. No Trump to rail against.

My point is. Joe needs to keep progressives and moderates in order to win either election.

AOC represents a lot of Americans. Bernie actually won the California Democratic primary. So. To ignore progressives. Or to consider liberals as just a fringe. Is going to hurt the Democrats in 22 and 24.

First and foremost, winning the 2 seats in GA is paramount

Agree with you on this as well. Otherwise McConnell will stalemate any action in congress. In order to hurt Democrats and specifically, hurt Biden.

If the Democrats don't choose candidates that can win in the districts they represent,

Progressives have been doing great in local elections. Despite having to fight both the GOP and the DNC.

Ignoring progressives will hurt Democrats in both 2022 and 2024.

#16 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 05:43 PM | Reply

Poor turnouts in mid-terms have harmed democrats for a long time.

2018 had a big turnout.

But 2018 also had Trump. Which was a huge motivator for a lot of people.

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 05:44 PM | Reply

Real party activists stay engaged EVERY YEAR

You're giving republican voters too much credit.

What the GOP does is fill their voters with fear and rage EVERY DAY. So when it comes time to vote, they are all screaming and shooting blood out of their eyes.

2018 went well for Democrats. Because Trump had filed our heads with fear and rage.

Now. I'm not saying that's what Biden should do. I actually feel like his approach to his presidency. That he actually gives a shht about Americans and America. Is a great strategy.

Maybe he can get more Americans to the voting booths by being a great president.

I hope so.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 05:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ignoring progressives will hurt Democrats in both 2022 and 2024.

No one is advocating "ignoring" progressives. But if you don't realize that the GOP's tying of the most progressive Democrats and their policies to many Democratic candidates - who won in pro-Trump districts in 2018 - actively helped them lose their races in 2020, then you're not taking these lessons very well.

Trump grew his electorate by more than 9 million voters this year compared to 2016. Democrats who won in pro-Trump districts in 2018 never really had any chance faced with the electorate that showed up for Trump 2 weeks ago, but tying moderates to progressive policies didn't help the situation - in those districts.

Electing more progressives in districts that swing more progressive makes all the sense in the world. But expecting all Democrats to run on AOC's policy stances and issues when the American public at large remains convinced that she embodies socialism and anarchy is foolish and counterproductive. I and you know that isn't the case, but there isn't enough bandwidth nor ability to convey that message to many who may not like Republican policies but cannot stomach what they've been led to believe is is Castro-lite.

Reality is and will continue to move our politics leftward from where they stand now because the entropy demands it. But change only happens incrementally until/unless something catastrophic happens which causes seismic change more rapidly. Bottom line - Democrats need each other no matter where on the spectrum any individual lies - until the political spectrum shifts and the furthest on the right has been replaced by more progressives on the left.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 06:02 PM | Reply

expecting all Democrats to run on AOC's policy stances and issues when the American public at large remains convinced that she embodies socialism and anarchy is foolish and counterproductive. I and you know that isn't the case

So why entertain it?

Why not be better than the GOP at our messaging and branding?

Democrats needs to be more active at a local level. Where misinformation is being spread. In order to stop it at its source.

If Democrats keep up the same dedication to winning local government as they have been over the past four years. It won't be as hard to win. That's the lesson to be learned from Georgia and Arizona. Lots of local effort to talk to local voters. Make sure they're registered and make sure they're getting to the polls to win.

Stop blaming liberals for wanting our taxes to go to healthcare. Explain to moderates that their cost of life isn't going to change and in fact, they'll end up saving money.

#20 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 06:15 PM | Reply

Reality is and will continue to move our politics leftward from where they stand now

The GOP stole three seats in the Supreme Court and gave them to Trump.

Prevented Obama from seating Garland. Coerced Kennedy to step down. Filled RBG's seat even though it was about a month until the election.

These wanna be confederates aren't going to allow this nation to move in any direction but right into fascism.

But. I hope you're correct. I'd love to see this country become more liberal.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 06:21 PM | Reply

"but tying moderates to progressive policies didn't help the situation - in those districts."

That's hard to resist. The left aspires to progressive policies and it's hard to back off them in more moderate districts where more progressive policies are not accepted.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 06:24 PM | Reply

Let the moderates go ---- themselves. If they want repub lite, they might as well be repubs for real. They are the bane of real progressive policy.

If we were as unabashedly liberal as the Trumpites are -------- we'd be way ahead.

Nancy needs to retire. Now.

#23 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-11-16 06:32 PM | Reply

The left aspires to progressive policies and it's hard to back off them in more moderate districts where more progressive policies are not accepted.

Agreed.

But, you know what I never hear.

Republicans worrying that their policies may be too conservative for moderates.

It's almost like moderates are all planning on voting for the Republican policies.

But maybe, just maybe, if Democrats don't do anything too progressive, they can convince these moderates into voting for them instead.

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 06:34 PM | Reply

But maybe, just maybe, if Democrats don't do anything too progressive, they can convince these moderates into voting for them instead.

That isn't my point. It should never be about convincing moderates that a Democrat is not left of center, but it is a matter of degrees depending upon the make-up of the district at issue.

If Democrats cannot understand that if AOC herself could be cloned, she would not win in a majority of congressional districts all across America, ergo, her personal politics would never be enacted because they remain a minority view in the moment. Moments can change, and I certainly hope that more progressive remedies are at least given a chance like we keep doing with Republican ones like tax cuts increase revenues.

Democrats always are expected to be responsible while Republicans can go as far off their wing as they usually want. The fact of the matter is that Dems are more than willing to correct course if need be, and do so willingly because they are always focused on the ends, not the journey itself. The GOP is all about the dogma - if something doesn't work, we simply haven't tried hard enough to make it work. And that usually results in the rich getting richer while the poor look upward in envy and lust as they're admonished to simply work harder and smarter and they too will one day reach the top.

#25 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 06:48 PM | Reply

Let the moderates go ---- themselves.

-posted by Effetetrumpvoter

This is why the democrats have this problem. They have too many ideological puritans who can't stand moderates.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 06:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They have too many ideological puritans who can't stand moderates.

These are people who've never spent a day door knocking or phone banking locally in their own backyard. People who work with the party in trying to get candidates elected all know that you have to persuade the voters you have, not the ones you wish would vote but don't bother to. If it were easy to nominate and elect progressive candidates then Congress would be full of them.

You have to appeal to the sensibilities of your electorate - or be willing to take years and cycles trying to educate them toward the politics you believe they should support. At any rate, it's an ongoing years-long effort, not something that is going to happen during a single 8-month or so election season.

#27 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 06:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That isn't my point.

I wasn't assigning that to you. Sorry if you took it in such a way.

The DNC's need for moderate voters has been a reason to sideline progressives for... well, forever.

As for AOC, I'd say the first step is for the DNC to stop attacking her and stop running candidates against her. The DNC should also support progressives at local levels where their popularity is clearly obvious. They could have picked up a couple extra seats if they had supported local progressives instead of the moderates they stuck with and lost with.

I completely agree with your last paragraph of #25. Republicans get away with everything they, and we, hold democrats responsible for. It's a double standard that only works in a cult.

#28 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:01 PM | Reply

They have too many ideological puritans who can't stand moderates.

Republicans can't stand moderates either.

If you don't agree with them they'll threaten to kill you.

Difference is, again, the GOP support their fringe voters and don't worry too much about moderates.

Or perhaps there was something the GOP was doing to convince moderate Americans to vote for them.

I mean. You'll have to tell me what it is. All I've seen Republicans do over the past four years is support extreme conservatism and religious dogma.

Also, Coney is about as far right of the spectrum as one can get.

I didn't read anything about concerned Republicans warning that Coney was going to drive moderate voters away.

They literally defied Moderates, and even some Republicans, to seat her.

#29 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:12 PM | Reply

As for AOC, I'd say the first step is for the DNC to stop attacking her and stop running candidates against her. The DNC should also support progressives at local levels where their popularity is clearly obvious.

I agree wholeheartedly that Dems shouldn't be attacking other Dems, but that's a 2-way street as well. I think AOC should have left Joe Manchin alone for now. If the GOP overreaches like we know they will, Joe might very well come along should the Dems control the Senate after the runoffs. If not, it doesn't matter anyway. But unfortunately, we need Joe just like we need AOC. And I am not a Manchin fan at all.

I certainly hope that in progressive districts that progressive candidates will receive DNC support. But I realize that power centers do exist and sometimes makes strange bedfellows. But I see AOC as an obvious future NY Senator and likely presidential candidate down the road, or perhaps a Speaker should she decide to stay in the House.

But I also hope she realizes the need to control her image and to stop letting the GOP demonize her to most of America. She's smart, photogenic, with a vibrant personality. She needs to use her platform of persuasion to mainstream herself and to show that she understands the needs of non-city dwellers too to a better degree than it appears right now. But AOC has nothing but time on her side at this point. And she shows every inclination of using it to listen, learn, and build upon her brand to be a dominant force for positive change in American politics for decades to come.

#30 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 07:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They have too many ideological puritans who can't stand moderates.

There is no toleration in the GOP for moderates.

PROOF: They've primaried out moderates

#31 | Posted by americanunity at 2020-11-16 07:15 PM | Reply

Joe Biden is President-elect right now because Trump/GOP drove moderates away Clown. I posted a thread about the topic just this afternoon. In the key midwestern swing states it wasn't black urban votes that delivered the states to Biden, it was white suburban/exurban voters that put him over the top.

So there is that.

#32 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 07:18 PM | Reply

"They have too many ideological puritans who can't stand moderates."

Republicans used to have that problem.
They solved it when they got rid of all the moderates.
And now the Republicans all share the same beliefs about masks, and science, and Muslims, and democracy: BAD.

Congratulations, Republicans.
You built that!

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-16 07:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-PROOF: They've primaried out moderates

in this past election?

are you sure? In my red state, the moderates all won their primaries.....but that's just my area.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 07:21 PM | Reply

Really? Which GOP moderates got elected in Kansas?

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-16 07:23 PM | Reply

Joe Biden is President-elect right now because Trump/GOP drove moderates away Clown.

73.2 million Americans voted for Trump.

We better hope some of them were moderates.

Because if 78.9 Million who voted for Biden are liberals and all the moderates.

Then there are bigger problems ahead of us in 22 and 24.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:24 PM | Reply

Roger Marshall defeated Kris Kobach in his primary run for senate

Marshall defeated Tim Huelskamp in 2016......again, more moderate

Tracy Mann defeated Bill Clifford in his primary run for the House.

in all cases, the moderates won.

Our governor, Laura Kelley (D), was by far the more moderate candidate when she won in 2018.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 07:27 PM | Reply

I also hope she realizes the need to control her image and to stop letting the GOP demonize her to most of America.

How should AOC proceed? The same way Hillary did?

My point being.

Doesn't matter what AOC or Hillary do or did. The GOP will demonize them regardless.

But, yes, AOC should learn. The GOP will use her every error, gaffe, and misstep against her. For the rest of her life.

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:28 PM | Reply

And on this place in the past when righties were more present here, I don't remember seeing the same kinds of arguments between themselves like I do with the left and the ideological puritan kind argument like you did with Hillary.

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 07:30 PM | Reply

-These are people who've never spent a day door knocking or phone banking locally in their own backyard.

You're absolutely right about that.

They can't even be bothered to log off their computers. Otherwise, they'd have to stop being online experts at everything.

Can't have that......

#40 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 07:31 PM | Reply

I don't remember seeing the same kinds of arguments between themselves like I do with the left and the ideological puritan kind argument like you did with Hillary.

The benefit of being in a cult. You agree all the time.

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:32 PM | Reply

They can't even be bothered to log off their computers.
#40 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It's a good thing you're here 24/7 to keep track of us all.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:33 PM | Reply

-But I also hope she realizes the need to control her image and to stop letting the GOP demonize her to most of America.

The right has that problem as well.

There's no escaping it. The rest of the party has to just man up and learn to live with it and stop squirming over it.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 07:35 PM | Reply

Doesn't matter what AOC or Hillary do or did. The GOP will demonize them regardless.

Which is why I gave you the answer in my comment: AOC needs to control her own image and stop letting others falsely malign it.

Need an example? Did you happen to catch Pete Buttigieg on Fox News during the final months of the campaign? Did you see him use his intelligence, actual facts and wit to flummox the talking heads spewing Trump's lies and smears about Joe Biden? He came off looking wise while the Foxers were all licking their wounds by the time his spots were finished.

That's how you control your brand.

#44 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 07:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

73.2 million Americans voted for Trump.

Actually it's already over 74 headed towards 75 million.

But I laid out specific parameters of the key midwestern states, not the nation as a whole. Biden won the election in MI, PA, and WI, which is exactly where he targeted. And he won it with white votes because Black votes were nearly flat compared to 2016. He flipped white voters there even while Trump grew his electorate too.

#45 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 07:43 PM | Reply

I actually find Buttigieg to be an incredibly intelligent human being and would be happy with him in the senate or our future President. (Though I doubt America is ready for an openly gay president.)

A lot of things he's said have been very impressive and spot on.

But a lot of things AOC has done in the past 2 years have been very impressive as well. She's very well spoken and articulate. She's human and is vocal about humanity mattering to her. About all Americans mattering to her.

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 07:50 PM | Reply

"I don't remember seeing the same kinds of arguments between themselves"

Two things.
1. Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment.
2. #1 explains how they all either rallied behind Trump -- or avoided the appearance of not being in lockstep with the Party by proclaiming themselves "third party."

Two more things.
1. You don't remember it because it didn't happen.
2. It didn't happen because your cult doesn't tolerate it.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-16 07:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Actually it's already over 74 headed towards 75 million.

I must have been looking at a page that needed a refresh or something.

Don't know what to say, Tony.

It seems to me.

Republicans represent conservatives and conservatives are looking to turn America into Saudi Arabia. Don't ask me why. But apparently science and tolerance are too much of a contradiction to their favorite book for them to handle. Plus some are just really angry.

Democrats represent moderates. They do. Because the assumption is always that liberals will settle for a moderate over a conservative. It's sound in theory. But it also creates voter apathy.

When no one represents me. Why should I care? A lot of Americans have the privilege of not voting. Their lives aren't drastically affected by either Presidential candidate. (Look at voting %. Non voters are usually the biggest group.)

Seriously man. Zucchini salad or deep fried spam for dinner? Regardless of the fried spam being unhealthy and killing you faster. No one wants zucchini salad.

Democrats need to start paying attention to that.

Democrats need to pay more attention to where the party is going. Rather than where it's been.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 08:05 PM | Reply

Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment.

That's incredible.

#49 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 08:08 PM | Reply

Excuse me. Trump's total is only 73.1 as I write this. I thought that I saw a graphic last night saying his total was over 74 million.

Democrats need to pay more attention to where the party is going. Rather than where it's been.

I couldn't disagree more. The problem with Democrats IS that the party continues to argue where it's going, instead of looking at each individual race - from animal control on up - and figuring out how to stay as true to principles as possible while running energetic campaigns that can win the most votes in those races, period.

It's about WINNING even when you take years and years of broadcasting your message and changing the viewpoint of your electorate. But if you can't win now, and you aren't moving closer to winning the next time, you're wasting both time and money if your goal is to elect representatives who will champion your policies inside government.

And by the bolded part I mean this: If your candidate comes from an agriculture state, they just might be pro-ethanol or farm supports - members have to represent their constituencies on district issues. Same with Joe Biden having a pro-bank history. Delaware's chief industry is banking, go figure. Again, we have to understand that on some issues where people come from is more important than either party's stance on local policy and issues. Such is politics and life.

#50 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-16 08:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If your candidate comes from an agriculture state, they just might be pro-ethanol or farm supports - members have to represent their constituencies on district issues."

It's hilarious you have to point that out to anybody.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-16 08:49 PM | Reply

This is the GOP in a nutshell...
Lie to get what you want,
Take, more than your share,
share, only with the rich & powerful,
Put Party over Country,
Win at any cost...

Utterly deplorable & contemptible...

#52 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-11-16 08:54 PM | Reply

"If your candidate comes from an agriculture state, they just might be pro-ethanol or farm supports"

^
Perfect example of how Capitalism turns politicians away from what's right, and forces them to support what's merely profitable -- and only profitable due to political diktat!

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-16 09:23 PM | Reply

if you can't win now, and you aren't moving closer to winning the next time, you're wasting both time and money if your goal is to elect representatives who will champion your policies inside government.

I'm not sure who is being considered as not winning.

Though it was lost in the covid climax. Bernie won the California Democratic primary. That's not a small chunk of the electorate.

And progressives have been winning nation wide.

My message is and was, Democrats need to stop ignoring liberals in favor of possible conservative converts.

Republicans don't care about moderates. They've clearly shown their hatred for anyone outside of their cult.

Moderates need to open their eyes and see we can't just be the same. Life is about change. We as nation can move left or continue right.

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-16 10:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#54

If you look at these maps and don't grasp the nuance Tony and Eberly are trying to introduce then as a political science student you are a lost cause.

I don't indorse the spin but good maps. www.usatoday.com

In searching for the first one, by county, I stumbled across this. www.google.com

That one comes from a 2016 WaPo article. www.google.com

#55 | Posted by et_al at 2020-11-17 01:04 AM | Reply

-PROOF: They've primaried out moderates

in this past election?

are you sure? In my red state, the moderates all won their primaries.....but that's just my area.

#34 | Posted by eberly

Hm. You're in Kansas, right?:

Moderate Republicans, for decades a prominent feature of Kansas politics, aren't extinct. But after last week's primary elections, they're back on the endangered species list.

Moderates fell to conservatives in Republican legislative contests across the state. The consequences will play out over the next few years, possibly determining the outcome of debates over Medicaid expansion, abortion and Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly's powers during the pandemic.

Read more here: www.kansas.com

The past several years have seen senators like Flake, Corker, Spector, and others decline reelection campaigns because they knew they'd lose to far right candidates.

Which moderate Senate Republicans are left?

#56 | Posted by americanunity at 2020-11-17 04:20 AM | Reply

The GOP don't tolerate moderates anymore ... That's a fact.

#57 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-17 04:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

My examples were sound, AU. I wasn't suggesting it was the way of the GOP overall, not even in the entire state of Kansas

Your argument is fair and I have to agree.

but it doesn't change my argument.....that the democratic party needs to tolerate moderates more.

but you just ignore that and pretend I never said it.

And go on -------- on moderates.

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 08:32 AM | Reply

Your "argument" is a disingenuous
There are no "moderates" in The GOP, today's GOP made sure of that over 4 years ago

#59 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2020-11-17 08:51 AM | Reply

STFU, savage.

You don't even know what argument I made.

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 08:55 AM | Reply

Let the moderates go ---- themselves.
-posted by Effetetrumpvoter

That was my argument.....there are too many folks like Effete in the democratic party.

I'll gladly concede the GOP has this problem as well.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 08:56 AM | Reply

but it doesn't change my argument.....that the democratic party needs to tolerate moderates more.

I'm a red state Democrat who lives in a solid blue congressional district. There are mainly moderate Democrats where I come from, and there are hundreds of places where the same can also be said. I would love to see more progressive policies, but I recognize that what remains of Democrats in middle America just are not that progressive at this moment.

Nationally, some of the most visible and prominent Democrats are the new progressives that have brought fresh energy and momentum into the party. But they are still more of a minority within the party than anything approaching a national majority.

Every Democrat that I've ever seen runs on issue stances that resonate within their own constituencies, this isn't rocket science. And the other side of that coin is the Republicans' obsessive propensity of attaching the most liberal Democrats' progressive policies to moderate Democrats, and attacking them - even though those candidates are not running on said policies. The GOP stock-in-trade is nationalizing and demonizing any and all Democrats by linking them to radicalized caricatures of the most visible far-left members, then claiming moderate candidates are themselves simply acolytes and kindred spirits of party members and their policies both which middle America has been taught to fear the most.

This is the moderates argument with the progressives imo. However, the issue should not be stymying progressive programs and voices, but realizing how toxic those things can be for Democrats who depend upon non-progressive votes in order to win their own elections based on the ideological bent of their own unique constituencies.

#62 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-17 09:06 AM | Reply

"And the other side of that coin is the Republicans' obsessive propensity of attaching the most liberal Democrats' progressive policies to moderate Democrats, and attacking them - even though those candidates are not running on said policies."

Do you think it works? Meaning, do you think the GOP succeeds with this strategy?

And you understand the democratic party employs the same strategy with moderate GOP candidates, right? It's a game that's been played by both sides.

Recently, it just happened in Kansas. A Democratic party candidate for the US Senate, Barbara Bollier (a lifetime republican who switched parties) spent over $20 million dollars against a republican candidate who spend around $5 million. They attached the republican to all sorts of extreme positions.

Didn't work. She got her ass kicked despite the all that money spent. Kansas is not the place to attach a republican to extreme republican positions to defeat them. I'm not sure it didn't help him, IMO.

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 09:20 AM | Reply

Do you think it works? Meaning, do you think the GOP succeeds with this strategy?

And you understand the democratic party employs the same strategy with moderate GOP candidates, right? It's a game that's been played by both sides.

Yes, the GOP succeeds with this strategy. While I understand your Democratic example, the GOP's stock in trade is using personalization/demonization, not just issue polarization.

Example: How many decades has Nancy Pelosi - and now AOC/The Squad - been trotted out as bogeymen against Democratic candidates who aren't aligned with them policywise?

This year's go-to charge was "socialism" - as though these Democrats want to nationalize every industry - simply because the Democrats are laser-focused on making sure all Americans have access to affordable healthcare services during a raging pandemic and our changing climate is a growing threat to human life as we know it - which has ramifications all across the board.

As much as I would love it, how many Democrats ran on Mitch McConnell's personal intransigence and anti-democratic machinations? How many Republicans tied Nancy Pelosi and the Squad to their Democratic opponents - particularly those who won election in 2018 in districts that went to Trump in 2016?

I do not see any meaningful equivalence in how the parties operate in this area, but I'm open to more discussion.

#64 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-17 09:33 AM | Reply

64

I agree in that it's not equal. I can't imagine trying to attach a moderate republican to McConnell and that working in many cases.


#65 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 09:43 AM | Reply

The Trump campaign's legal strategy has come down to this: Even as judges dismiss lawsuits as baseless, it files nearly identical ones in new courts, hoping for more favorable judges. Failure has not slowed it down.

I had a co-worker like this. He would go around the office asking a tax law question and if he didn't like the answer he would go to the next person down the aisle until he hit on the one he liked best. It got to the point that whoever got the pleasure of answering him would pick up the phone and call the rest to warn them that he was shopping for the right answer.

#66 | Posted by Nixon at 2020-11-17 11:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

DT should be hung from the neck until dead as a warning to others rascists.

#67 | Posted by Jaspar at 2020-11-17 12:31 PM | Reply

While I understand your Democratic example, the GOP's stock in trade is using personalization/demonization, not just issue polarization.

This year's go-to charge was "socialism" ...

Case in point:

And what's the GOP strategy in the two runoff elections? It's not kitchen-table issues or anything else approaching substance. It's to paint Democratic candidates Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock as socialists who want to defund the police. (As Loeffler revealed on a call with donors, she intends to talk a lot about the fact that 25 years ago, when Warnock was a youth pastor at a church in New York, Fidel Castro spoke there.) It's a lie " neither Ossoff nor Warnock is a socialist, and neither wants to defund the police " but we just came off an election in which Republicans told the same lies about Democratic candidates in every corner of the country.

One would hope that voters would be smart enough to reject that nonsense, but there's no reason to think so. The Republican strategy isn't really about persuading anyone to change their votes, it's about driving up turnout among White conservatives; Loeffler's ads already feature Jeremiah Wright (remember him?) to insinuate that Warnock is some kind of radical black nationalist.

www.washingtonpost.com

Yet again, there is no Democratic equivalency when it comes to GOP intentional distortion and outright lying about Democratic opponent's positions and allies. And more often than not, it continues to work upon the lower-informed voters already susceptible to believe whatever negative they're told about Democrats regardless of how baseless it might be.

#68 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-17 04:41 PM | Reply

#58 | Posted by eberly

There are loads of moderate Dems in Congress.

BTW, hope you and your wife get over the COVID quickly with no lingering effects.

#69 | Posted by americanunity at 2020-11-17 07:04 PM | Reply

Thanks, AU

#70 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-17 07:20 PM | Reply

Thanks, AU

#70 | Posted by eberly

You're welcome.

Sincerely offered :-)

#71 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-17 07:26 PM | Reply

This is doctor shopping but with judges.

If a President has to look this hard the know they're in the wrong.

#72 | Posted by Tor at 2020-11-17 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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