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Thursday, November 19, 2020

Getting nowhere in the courts, President Donald Trump's scattershot effort to overturn President-elect Joe Biden's victory is shifting toward obscure election boards that certify the vote as Trump and his allies seek to upend the electoral process, sow chaos and perpetuate unsubstantiated doubts about the count.



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President Trump personally called the two Republican canvassers in Wayne County, ... @AP_Politics reports. Now they're trying to rescind their support for certifying the vote:

In Wayne County, the two Republican canvassers at first balked at certifying the vote, winning praise from Trump, and then reversed course after widespread condemnation. A person familiar with the matter said Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote "should not be certified."

#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-19 01:24 PM | Reply

Trump personally intercedes to help his own cause in Wayne Co, MI. I wouldn't be surprised if we learn he has done so in other states as well:

This story can be hard to follow but it boils down to this: After weeks of baseless claims of fraud, Giuliani and allies are now intent on prodding R state officials to hold off on certification. The goal: disrupt E. College to try to sully Biden's

As defeats pile up, Trump tries to delay vote count in last-ditch attempt to cast doubt on Biden victory

#2 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-19 01:31 PM | Reply

Michael Cohen: 'I fear' Trump won't peacefully give up the White House if he loses the 2020 election

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-19 01:31 PM | Reply

Who's surprised? The RNC pretty much said so at their convention. Their only platform being "We only exist to please Donald Trump".
They don't care about America.

#4 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-11-19 02:54 PM | Reply

Trump tries to subvert the election, inviting Michigan G.O.P. lawmakers to the White House.

...After failing repeatedly in court to overturn election results, President Trump is taking the extraordinary step of reaching out directly to Republican state legislators as he tries to subvert the Electoral College process, inviting Michigan lawmakers to meet with him at the White House on Friday....

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-19 03:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Relax, bronzer doesn't stop bullets.

#6 | Posted by bored at 2020-11-19 03:34 PM | Reply

I think there's more than just irresponsibility to explain Trumps maniacal behavior. More than just his ego. More than his fear of civil and federal prosecutions. More than the RNC's plot to use Trump's second term to destroy democracy.

For example, I'm wondering about the guaranteed promises given to Vladimir Putin. Promises like lifting the crippling sanctions imposed on Russia by the Obama administration.

Vladimir Putin is furious about something. I can't imagine what else it might be.

#7 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-11-19 08:16 PM | Reply

Nunes memo

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-11-19 08:54 PM | Reply

This is the play as was predicted by two longtime MI GOP operatives:

Jeff Timmer and Bob LaBrant: Democracy in Michigan could be in peril. We don't say this to be hyperbolic. Rather, we say it to be blunt about the very real prospect the Republicans who control the Senate and House in Lansing might nullify the clear and decisive victory achieved by Joe Biden in Michigan and hand our state's 16 electoral votes to Donald Trump even though the president lost the state by 150,000 votes. Believe our warning. We have more than 75 combined years at the highest levels of the Republican Party and Lansing politics.

#9 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-19 09:23 PM | Reply

"Trump tries to subvert the election, inviting Michigan G.O.P. lawmakers to the White House."

Rep. Elissa Slotkin @RepSlotkin Congresswoman for Michigan's 8th Congressional District

History has come for Speaker Chatfield and Senator Shirkey, who have been summoned to the White House, ahead of Monday's State Board of Canvassers' meeting meant to certify Michigan's results.

These two men will soon have to choose between our democracy, and fealty to one man.

Gentlemen, this may be the thing you are remembered for.

Please defend our democracy.

#10 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-19 09:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Four partisans must certify Michigan's election. One makes no promises.

As chairman of Michigan's 8th Congressional District Republican Committee, Norm Shinkle actively worked to re-elect President Donald Trump.

Now, he's poised to play a key role in deciding whether to certify Michigan election results that Trump is publicly disputing and fighting in court.

Shinkle is a member of the Board of State Canvassers, a constitutionally created body that is intentionally partisan. The panel, appointed by the governor, is composed of two Democrats and two Republicans who cannot certify election results without bipartisan consensus in the form of at least a 3-1 majority vote.

In the case of a 2-2 tie, legal experts say state courts would likely order the board to certify the Michigan election. In the unlikely event that doesn't happen, Democrats fear the Republican-led Legislature could be put in position to decide how the state awards its 16 presidential electors.

#11 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-19 09:55 PM | Reply

#11 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

An article I read (in a Detroit newspaper?) said that the Michigan legislature enacted a law in the recent past mandating that Michigan's votes in the EC will be cast by the winning candidate's slate of electors.

#12 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-20 12:58 AM | Reply

AU, that's if the MI vote is certified by at least a 3 to 1 vote. If the 2 GOP board members vote no and it is is not certified, then that is were the uncertainty starts:

In a Wednesday hearing, David Fink, attorney for the City of Detroit, raised what he called the "desperately dangerous" specter of the Michigan Legislature attempting to appoint electors if Michigan's election isn't certified by Dec. 8.

#13 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-20 02:55 AM | Reply

"An article I read (in a Detroit newspaper?) said that the Michigan legislature enacted a law in the recent past mandating that Michigan's votes in the EC will be cast by the winning candidate's slate of electors."

Notice the language says they would abide by the "certified" results (emphasis mine):

This is where things could get weird. The BSC is made up of two Republicans and two Democrats, all of whom are appointed by the governor. The BSC could deadlock 2-2 and not certify the canvass of votes from the counties.

Should this stalemate come to be, what then? The Michigan Court of Appeals could compel the BSC to certify the election results and Biden's win, but technically the deadline for them to do so doesn't neatly coincide with the meeting of the electors. The statutory deadline for BSC to declare a winner if 40 days after the election. That's five days after the federal "Safe Harbor Deadline" of Dec. 8 (the date under federal law by which a slate of electors named by a state enjoys presumption of validity by Congress, assuming all disputes have been resolved under state law in place on day of election).

A BSC impasse could mean the Legislature, with Republicans in firm control, might fall under enormous political pressure from national and state Republicans to ignore the will of the people and substitute their own partisan judgment by choosing Trump's slate of electors instead of Biden's (The Michigan Senate did pass a non-binding resolution stating they would abide only by the "certified" popular election results).

The U.S. Constitution invests the power to determine the procedures by which Michigan's electoral votes are awarded. That power was delegated to the BSC and the governor long ago. However, absent a certification by the BSC, the House and Senate could act on their own and choose their favored slate of electors. While the outcome of such action could be litigated in the courts, it would not prevent the action from occurring.

Gov. Whitmer could also act under current statute and both the Legislature and the Executive branch could transmit competing slates of Michigan's electors to Congress.

The courts and Congress would then be left to sort out the mess.

The harm this would do to the principles of democracy are immense, but it might happen nonetheless. Consider how many times during the past four years we've witnessed things that previously seemed far-fetched come to pass.

We need to tell House Speaker Lee Chatfield, Senate Majority Leader Mike Shirkey, and other Republicans in Lansing to stop playing partisan games, stop the fake investigation, and stand up for democracy.

Joe Biden won Michigan. Donald Trump lost. Finalize that result and move on.

In light of these potential developments, it makes Trump's earlier targeting of Governor Whitmer and his rush appointment of Amy Coney Barrett, claiming the SC would give him the election, seem like a long term, very calculated strategy. I believe Trump still thinks he will be president when all is said and done. And as if we needed any more proof, all of this is just another reason to get rid of the electoral college.

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-20 03:19 AM | Reply

Just take a look at Trump's twitter feed. These are not the tweets of a man who is planning to give up the presidency and leave the WH:

#15 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2020-11-20 03:45 AM | Reply

GAL @ #15

Not without a forklift anyway.

#16 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-11-20 10:45 AM | Reply

So Biden loses Michigan to fraud. He is still ahead? Trump screws up the electoral college enough to matter, a senator and congressman raise an objection to the electoral votes when they are tallied. It goes to the house to address the objection which has *no deadline* to decide the matter. It is put into committee to be put off indefinitely. January 20th President Pelosi.

Alternatively new house members are sworn in by the new speaker of the house before a contested election is decided in the house. Pelosi notes that the Republicans complained about fraud and refuses to swear in every Republican delegation until the matter is investigated. The next day the house with a 100% Democratic representation votes in Biden. The day after the Republicans are sworn in.

This is entirely within the rules of the house of representatives and the supreme court literally has no jurisdiction.

#17 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-11-20 11:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


Yeah. Even if Trump is able to steal Michigan, the count would still be 290 Biden, 248 Trump.

The most favorable outcome for the Republicans is for Trump to acknowledge defeat, and maybe put the party on a more stable footing for future elections.

But I don't think that Trump care about the Republican party. I think he cares about himself, his ego, and his reputation.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-20 02:24 PM | Reply

And like her or hate her, Pelosi is probably the most gifted politician any of us have seen in our lifetime. And I'm saying that as a non-Democrat.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-20 02:26 PM | Reply

You just cannot make this stuff up.

Donald Trump's crack legal team Thursday filed a lawsuit alleging Michigan fraud that cited a list of seemingly irregular township voting percentages. Unfortunately, the data in a supporting affidavit might have more persuasive had it not come from two states away in Minnesota.

Yes, it appears "MI" for Michigan is easily confused by "MN" for Minnesota if the lawyers on your "elite strike force" legal team aren't actually all that elite.

"This is a catastrophic error, the kind of thing that causes a legal position to crash and burn. Trump's lawyers are fighting an uphill battle, to put it mildly, and confusing Michigan with Minnesota will at best make the hill steeper. Credibility once lost is hard to regain. Possibly Trump's lawyers have already discovered this appalling error and have undertaken to correct it."

Raw Story

#20 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2020-11-20 02:29 PM | Reply

Michigan is supposed to certify by Monday (Nov 23rd).

Norman D. Shinkle, one of two Republicans on the MI state Board of Canvassers, said he's seen nothing to substantiate Trump's claims that he won Michigan.

A 3-1 vote will certify the election results. Shinkle's wife was throwing around absurd accusations that she "saw a lot of strange things going on" at TCF center, where Wayne County's votes were counted. Then an audit was performed, Republican and Democrat working side by side. There were multiple cameras live streaming the count 24/7. No one else made any claims like that. Just more Republican ----------.

#21 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-20 05:39 PM | Reply

(The last paragraph of #21 is my comment, blockquoted in error.)

#22 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-20 05:40 PM | Reply

The states didn't certify yet,
the electoral college didn't meet,
you all need to check yourselves in case this doesn't work out the way you think it will.

#23 | Posted by drivelikejehu at 2020-11-20 09:23 PM | Reply

"The states didn't certify yet"

Hang your hat on that.

What new name will you use after December 14th?

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-20 10:00 PM | Reply

"suddenly votes stop being counted for no discernible reason"


Votes GOT counted. Based on what Republican legislatures forced onto the states.

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-20 10:44 PM | Reply

This is kind of funny...

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-11-20 10:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#25 - What a load of --------. Got a citation? All I could find was this:

Boards: Devil May Cry 5:

#29 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-20 10:50 PM | Reply

Redial - you are THE MAN!

#30 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-20 10:50 PM | Reply

vote counting stopped in michigan and penn. at around midnight. I went to bed after that - do you need me to show you how to do basic archival research on google/??

when have they ever stopped counting votes?

big cities in battle ground states threw this and its all coming apart.

joe and his accomplices should consneed now or face the gallows.


#31 | Posted by mutant at 2020-11-20 11:03 PM | Reply

check snopes its been debunked


#32 | Posted by mutant at 2020-11-20 11:04 PM | Reply

Mutant believes Santa Claus, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster are real, too.

#33 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2020-11-20 11:04 PM | Reply

---- off, Mutant.

#34 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-20 11:04 PM | Reply

it's joever

nice try traitors

russiapissukrainegate plan z

#35 | Posted by mutant at 2020-11-20 11:06 PM | Reply

34 - seethe more looser (cheater actually, losing can be done with dignity)

#36 | Posted by mutant at 2020-11-20 11:07 PM | Reply


Over a drunk lying piece of ---- poster? Naw.

I'm laughing my ass off over your ranting nonsense and great "words" like "consneed" and "looser" instead of "loser" and how your projecting that scum in the White House's (not for much longer! Yay!) actions (losing with dignity) on to Joe who kicked Trump's ass so hard Trump and his washed up lawyers trying to steal the election look more comical than I ever thought possible! BEYOND PARODY!

And here you come, with your nose so far up Trump's ass that if he turns right too quick he'll snap your neck!

Sure, everything you post is a lie, but you're comedy gold.

#37 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-20 11:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Bye-bye Mutant.

#38 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-20 11:20 PM | Reply

Poor mutant. Wallowing in the lies. Not man enough to take the loss like a... man ... is this how a mutant loses?

Your man lost. Get over it.

Trump is a LOSER.

Even LOSERS get lucky sometimes.

But not this time.


Did I mention that you LOST?


Try and enjoy your loss.


#39 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-21 11:47 AM | Reply

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