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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, November 21, 2020

President Trump continued Friday to deny the results of the election, pressuring state officials in Michigan and Georgia to overturn the will of voters, and increasing fears that he might refuse to cede power to President-elect Joe Biden. But those looking to the nation's Founders, or the Constitution they framed, for answers to such a crisis will come up empty-handed.

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I've always thought how lucky America was to have a Geo. Washington and not a Napoleon.

#1 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-11-21 10:38 AM | Reply

It's eery just how prescient those in the past were of someone with the pathology of Trump someday rising to power in the then-nascent United States:

"Perhaps most ominously, one prominent Pennsylvanian identifying himself only as "An Old Whig," wrote about this in Anti-Federalist No. 70, and is worth quoting at length:

"Let us suppose this man to be a favorite with his army, and that they are unwilling to part with their beloved commander in chief ... and we have only to suppose one thing more, that this man is without the virtue, the moderation and love of liberty which possessed the mind of our late general [Washington] " and this country will be involved at once in war and tyranny.

... We may also suppose, without trespassing upon the bounds of probability, that this man may not have the means of supporting, in private life, the dignity of his former station; that like Caesar, he may be at once ambitious and poor, and deeply involved in debt. Such a man would die a thousand deaths rather than sink from the heights of splendor and power, into obscurity and wretchedness."

Some Founders who supported the Constitution still predicted that it wouldn't stop a president from seizing power.

"The first man put at the helm will be a good one," Benjamin Franklin said, referring to Washington. "Nobody knows what sort may come afterwards. The executive will be always increasing here, as elsewhere, till it ends in a monarchy.""

Let's not ever forget that none of this would be happening if those elected representatives in the Republican Party would simply stand up against the authoritarian machinations of this anti-democratic narcissistic megalomaniac.

#2 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-21 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I don't think they were exactly thinking people would be filling out other people's ballots either.

Trump should never concede. He should never qualify this election as being anything other than inaccurate.

The issue isn't the supposed lack of fraud or recounts.

The issue is the ability of people to directly influence other people's votes.

The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself.

#3 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-21 11:44 AM | Reply | Funny: 9

And if pigs could fly bacon would be poultry. The repubs in Congress are only going to aid Trump in his illegal power grab.

They have NO honor. Trump represents them truly.

This country is doomed by our own foolishness.

#4 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-11-21 11:46 AM | Reply

Bill Johnson you are an fool. Trump is pulling non existent "fraud" out of his ass. There is no merit to his accusations. He is a sore loser and a crybaby. You encourage this because you are stupid and gullible. Venial as well. If Biden or any other Dem played Trump's tune you would be apoplectic about it. Hypocrite,liar.

#5 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2020-11-21 11:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Come january trump will no longer be president and he can leave willingly or be treated like any otherwise house intruder and have dogs chew on him.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2020-11-21 11:57 AM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON A

Time to act lkie an American, Bill. Even though God knows you don't think like one.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2020-11-21 12:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#3 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON A

Time to act like an American, Bill. Even though God knows you don't think like one.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2020-11-21 12:03 PM | Reply

Trump is pulling non existent "fraud" out of his ass.

#5 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT

BILL knows this. He just as other values.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2020-11-21 12:04 PM | Reply

If Trump refuses to go, carry him out bawling like a baby.

We've wasted enough time on this abortion of a human being.

#10 | Posted by Zed at 2020-11-21 12:04 PM | Reply

Trump is pulling non existent "fraud" out of his ass.

#5 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT

BILL knows this. He just has other value

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2020-11-21 12:05 PM | Reply

The issue is the ability of people to directly influence other people's votes.
The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself.
#3 | POSTED BYBILLJOHNSON

You are a sad, ignorant man, BillJohnson.

Why do you choose to live like this?

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-21 12:06 PM | Reply

The one humongous thing that America has going for it if Trump tries to force a standoff is that we already know with confidence that the military is NOT on Trump's side and won't respond to any illegal orders that he might try to give them.

Now that is based on the current Chairman of the JCOS remaining in place - based on his public and private comments which have leaked into the media.

#13 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-21 12:09 PM | Reply

Just to be clear......the constitution doesn't require a concession on the part of Trump,right?

Officially, we will proceed with the inauguration and swear Biden in regardless of what Trump says or does, correct?

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-21 12:14 PM | Reply

#14

Right. But at this point the talk is simply about what happens if he refuses to physically leave the White House and relinquish the codes after noon on 1/20/21.

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-21 12:18 PM | Reply

"Just to be clear......the constitution doesn't require a concession on the part of Trump,right?"

The concession is for America, not for Trump.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-21 12:30 PM | Reply

Where are we on the Susan Collins Concern-O-Meter?

Slightly?
A bit?
Given pause?

#17 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2020-11-21 12:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"... We may also suppose, without trespassing upon the bounds of probability, that this man may not have the means of supporting, in private life, the dignity of his former station; that like Caesar, he may be at once ambitious and poor, and deeply involved in debt. Such a man would die a thousand deaths rather than sink from the heights of splendor and power, into obscurity and wretchedness."

"die a thousand deaths."

Adjusted for inflation, that's 260,854 deaths.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-21 12:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#3 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

What?? Didn't you threaten to quit the DR?

I guess you couldn't stay away.

You stupid drama queen.

#19 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-21 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BillJohnson comes here to feel persecuted by us.

He can't give that up.

It's the bedrock of his self-image.

Conservatives see themselves first and foremost as victims.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-21 02:15 PM | Reply

"The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself."

Then there should be reams of proof of fraud from the five states which routinely use mail-in ballots, as well as the military.

Feel free to post any and all proof you can find. And if you can't find any, be enough of a man to admit as much.

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-21 02:19 PM | Reply

My last interaction with BullshhtJohnson made him declare he would never return to the DR.

Eberly was really upset by it. Think he lost some sleep that night.

I knew Bill was lying.

Here's my proof.

#22 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-21 02:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Feel free to post any and all proof you can find.

Bill doesn't need proof.

He has desire.

Desire for Trump's mushroom stew.

#23 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-21 02:21 PM | Reply

"The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself."

Good catch, Danforth. We should unpack this and see if we can get to the truth.

What exactly is unfair about it?

I doubt you are arguing a fifty cent stamp amounts to a poll tax, so...

The military has voted by mail longer than you've been alive. Oregon has been doing it for years.

Has America been defrauding the military all this time?

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-21 02:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"What exactly is unfair about it? "

BillJohnson is pretending ballots are returned without being requested, and election officials don't keep track.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-21 02:28 PM | Reply

These anti-mail-ballot folks weren't so vocal in 2016 when 33 million mail in ballots were counted.
What's different this time?

#26 | Posted by Docman at 2020-11-21 04:12 PM | Reply

"What's different this time?"

Last time, they had zero proof of fraud.

This time, they have twice as much.

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-21 04:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

...and relinquish the codes after noon on 1/20/21.

I seem to recall the "football" changes hands at noon. The old codes expire at the same time.

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-11-21 04:58 PM | Reply

"Last time, they had zero proof of fraud.
This time, they have twice as much."

Clever.

#29 | Posted by dibblda at 2020-11-21 06:17 PM | Reply

Bill doesn't need proof.

He has desire.

Desire for Trump's mushroom stew.

#23 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

I will see bills desire and raise his desire with my desire.

Desire to watch Trumpy stew in his stew.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-21 07:01 PM | Reply

@#1 ... I've always thought how lucky America was to have a Geo. Washington and not a Napoleon. ...

Commentary: The Man Who Would Not Be King (2007)
www.heritage.org

...As our first president, he set the precedents that define what it means to be a constitutional executive: strong and energetic, aware of the limits of authority but guarding the prerogatives of office. The vast powers of the presidency, as one Convention delegate wrote, would not have been made as great "had not many of the members cast their eyes towards General Washington as president; and shaped their ideas of the powers to be given to a president by their opinions of his virtue."

And the key ingredient in all of these things was moral character, something that Washington took very seriously and which gave to his decision-making a deeply prudential quality and to his authority an unmatched magnanimity. "His integrity was pure, his justice the most inflexible I have ever known, no motives of interest or consanguinity, of friendship or hatred, being able to bias his decision," Jefferson later observed. "He was, indeed, in every sense of the words, a wise, a good, and a great man."

It is no coincidence, then, that Washington's most important legacy comes during moments of temptation, when the lure of power was before him. Twice during the Revolution, in 1776 and again in 1777 when Congress was forced to abandon Philadelphia in the face of advancing British troops, Gen. Washington was granted virtually unlimited powers to maintain the war effort and preserve civil society, powers not unlike those assumed in an earlier era by Roman dictators. He shouldered the responsibility but gave the authority back as soon as possible.

After the war, there were calls for Washington to claim formal political power. Indeed, seven months after the victory at Yorktown, one of his officers suggested what many thought only reasonable in the context of the 18th century: that America should establish a monarchy and that Washington should become king. A shocked Washington immediately rejected the offer out of hand as both inappropriate and dishonorable, and demanded the topic never be raised again....


#31 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-21 07:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#23 was pretty good and I thought I wouldn't post my thought but since it was brought up. And bill won't see it anyway,but

To bill it is all fungamental, he loves Trump's mushroom.

#32 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-11-21 07:07 PM | Reply

To bill it is all fungamental, he loves Trump's mushroom.

#32 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ

But bill is such a fungi!

#33 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-21 07:11 PM | Reply

Maybe the Founders didn't prepare for a president who refuses to step down, but We The People know what to do. Support the legally elected President. That's what we will do. The details of how we drag his fat petulant ass out if there don't need to be in the constitution.

On Jan 21st Biden will be the President of All Americans. And All Americans will be citizens with the duties and responsibilities they always had. And civil servants responsible for making the transfer as smooth as possible best follow whatever policy is currently in place or they will be held accountable.

59 days.

Semper Fi

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-21 07:21 PM | Reply

Right. But at this point the talk is simply about what happens if he refuses to physically leave the White House and relinquish the codes after noon on 1/20/21.

#15 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Trump becomes a criminal trespasser @ 12:01 pm on January 20th.
If he refuses to leave at that point the secret service and or DC police point to their yellow tasers and repeat their demands he leaves. If he still refuses he gets tased and placed in cuffs and leg irons and is frog marched out of the whitehouse. I'm sure the state of New York then will request his custody so he can stand trial for his crimes in that state.

Trump isn't a strong man he is your simple run of the mill loud mouthed coward, he'll be gone before January 20th on his own, likely headed for his safe space in the Kremlin.

#35 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-11-21 08:52 PM | Reply

Hey Billy Johnson, your guy lost, man up, and take the "L".

#36 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-11-21 08:53 PM | Reply

@#3 ... I don't think they were exactly thinking people would be filling out other people's ballots either. ...

That seems to be the basic premise of your concern.

Please provide evidence.

thx

#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-21 09:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump should never concede. He should never qualify this election as being anything other than inaccurate.
The issue isn't the supposed lack of fraud or recounts.
The issue is the ability of people to directly influence other people's votes.
The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-11-21 11:44 AM | REPLY

You're the antithesis of how an American should act regarding our political process.

www.independent.co.uk

Donald Trump's fervent campaigning to undermine mail-in voting may have ultimately cost him victory in the crucial swing state of Georgia, its Republican secretary of state has said.

While the state is undergoing a recount, Joe Biden leads Georgia by around 13,000 votes, meaning he is poised to become the first Democrat to claim victory there in decades.

Georgia's leading election official Brad Raffensperger, who has already faced the ire of Trump supporters for projecting a Biden victory in the state before a recount is complete, said the outgoing president's unsubstantiated claims about the vulnerability of mail-in voting likely suppressed about 24,500 Republicans from casting their ballots.

"He would have won by 10,000 votes [but] he actually suppressed, depressed his own voting base," Mr Raffensperger said in an interview with WSB TV.

MY WORDS FOLLOW

Eat your shorts Bill.

#38 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-21 09:29 PM | Reply

@#3 ... I don't think they were exactly thinking people would be filling out other people's ballots either. ...

"That seems to be the basic premise of your concern."

There's more: he believes it not only happens rampantly...but only Democrats do it.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-21 09:50 PM | Reply

@#39 ... but only Democrats do it.

I have noticed that the Trump legal team's, ummmm, questions have been targeted only towards those areas where Democrats seem to be the majority party.

When I have mentioned that previously, I got grief.

It seems obvious to me that the goal here is not evidence of malfeasance but unquestioning fealty to a man.

#40 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-21 10:09 PM | Reply

A couple Tic Tacs and I can ram my tongue right down their throats.

Can't believe the Tic Tac folks didn't capitalize on that.

#41 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-11-21 10:15 PM | Reply

questions have been targeted only towards those areas where Democrats seem to be the majority party.

It's worst than that.
It's only where the Democratic majority is Black.
They have yet to challenge any White Democratic strongholds.

This is punitive and (I believe) the intention is to promulgate the idea that Blacks are untrustworthy and cheat.
This is what he's been doing since the start.

#42 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-21 10:19 PM | Reply

Untrustworthy and cheat, how Trumpian of them.

#43 | Posted by bruceaz at 2020-11-21 10:29 PM | Reply

"Untrustworthy and cheat, how Trumpian of them."

Exactly. It's all either projection, or confession.

The only man who checks for another hiding behind the curtains is someone who has hidden behind the curtains.

#44 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-21 10:41 PM | Reply

Can't believe the Tic Tac folks didn't capitalize on that.

I'm sure they considered it, but they knew Comey wasn't going to swoop in and save them when it went bad.

#45 | Posted by REDIAL at 2020-11-21 10:54 PM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You obviously know nothing of the history of voting and elections in America.

#46 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2020-11-22 05:58 AM | Reply

#31 | Posted by LampLighter

Precedents. Norms. First to go when a "strong man" transforms to a dictator and takes control of a country.

#47 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-11-22 11:41 AM | Reply

The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-11-21 11:44 AM | REPLY

Bill is okay with it until Dems became the majority of Mail-In Voters. In a normal election conservatives as a whole out number liberals when it comes to mail-in votes. About 2:1

#48 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2020-11-22 11:43 AM | Reply

I haven't read one single post on this thread, however I do have a follow up to my earlier post.

The reason mail-in ballots should not be used is because they do not provide any safeguards to prevent vote stealing.

That doesn't automatically mean it happens but without those safeguards it could and of course will to some degree.

Mail-in ballots do not guarantee the person completing the form is the correct person.

Insuring the accuracy of elections is paramount to a fair and legitimate voting system.

Absentee ballots are handled differently and is as fair as can be done.

Early voting worked very well this election and showed states can begin voting a month ahead of time using regular voting methods without compromising reliability of the vote count.

Mail-in ballots will always be contentious just due to their very nature and should not be used.

Voting in person early or on election day and absentee ballots are the only methods I have seen that insure fairness and accuracy.

#49 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-22 11:43 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Bill you are making way too much sense. That does not fly here.

#50 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2020-11-22 11:50 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The reason mail-in ballots should not be used is because they do not provide any safeguards to prevent vote stealing."

Either show proof of "vote stealing" by the five states which have used them (for decades in Oregon) and military (since the Civil War), or admit you have none.

"Mail-in ballots will always be contentious"

Only to the willfully stupid, unaware of the precautions taken, and unwilling to learn the truth.

#51 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-22 11:53 AM | Reply

And don't be deluded into thinking they will all be verified and handled with the same care and caution as in person voting.

There is a difference in how a vote is verified when the voter is present and how votes are verified after the fact in a assembly line fashion.

Anyone who would believe mail-in voting can possibly be as accurate as in person voting has simply decided in their mind a larger margin of error is acceptable.

Ironic that liberals are fighting for a method of voting that guarantees a higher margin of error.

Makes you think...don't it.

#52 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-22 12:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Anyone who would believe mail-in voting can possibly be as accurate as in person voting has simply decided in their mind a larger margin of error is acceptable.

Tell us how you think mail in ballots are authenticated and then tabulated Bill.

It's patently obvious that you don't have a clue. I suggest looking it up before you continue to show that you're nothing more than a spout of disinformation and ignorance.

#53 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-22 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Makes you think...don't it.

#52 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Makes me think you are desperate to try and defend another Trumpy lie.

Makes me think you need to check your facts. Any error rate difference is statistically meaningless.

We have been safely voting by mail since the civil war.

Forty-six states now offer access to some form of mail voting.

Before Trumpism and this election it was never really a partisan issue; 24 of the states have Democratic governors, and 22 have Republican governors.

But this recent claim of mail-voting fraud has come almost exclusively from Republicans. But only the Trumptilians in the herd to be more precise.

Makes you think... don't it?

#54 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-22 12:26 PM | Reply

And verifying votes when envelopes are opened still doesn't remove the opportunity to cast votes for other people.

One family member can complete everyone's ballots in the family.

Or some misguided person believing they are doing the right thing might fill in ballots for a group of people like has been uncovered this election.

That is not the democratic system of government intended.

Whether you are liberal or conservative, an accurate legal election should be your ultimate goal.

#55 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-22 12:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

According to the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, there is no evidence that mail balloting increases electoral fraud as there are several anti-fraud protections built into the process designed to make it difficult to impersonate voters or steal ballots. These provisions include requiring people requesting absentee ballots to be registered voters, mailing ballots to the official address listed on voter registration rolls, requiring voter signatures on the external envelope, and having election authorities make sure the ballot came from the address of an actual voter. If a ballot appears questionable, some states use a signature matching technique to verify the signature of the voter.

These steps make it difficult to engage in fraud on a widespread basis. You can't request a ballot for a person that is mailed to your address as opposed to that person's official address with the election authorities. Even if someone wanted to wait by a mailbox for the absentee ballot to be sent to the registered voters so you could steal their ballot, you would never know what day the absentee ballot would arrive because voters can request them for several weeks prior to an election and election authorities send them out as the requests come in.

For years, military personnel stationed abroad have voted by absentee ballot with virtually no claims of election fraud. The procedures that already are in use safeguard against abuse and ensure the integrity of the voting process.

www.brookings.edu

#56 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-22 12:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

One family member can complete everyone's ballots in the family.

Or some misguided person believing they are doing the right thing might fill in ballots for a group of people like has been uncovered this election.

Highly unlikely or improbable. And the burden of proof is on YOU to show unmistakable evidence that such fraud occurred outside of your fevered mind.

Just how many adults live in most households? How many votes are going to be altered in such cases, and how would such individualized actions be coordinated in large enough numbers to sway electoral results?

The gist of the issue is that one individual vote is not worth committing a felony over because they is no way to coordinate a large scale effort outside of local elections with smaller electorates such as happened in North Carolina. Nationally, it's impossible to gather enough votes to matter, one at a time.

#57 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-22 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Re: #55 BillJohnson

"an accurate legal election should be your ultimate goal"

You should see what's happening in the courts in regards to "legality". You're supporting a fascist pig

#58 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-11-22 12:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"One family member can complete everyone's ballots in the family."

So? When did this become a problem? One family member can always influence the vote of the rest of that family or help them vote.

It's not against the rules to help a family member vote. But the voter still has to sign that it his or her vote.

You are desperate to prove something that is not true.

Good luck with your disinformation campaign Comrade.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-22 12:48 PM | Reply

To vote by mail, voters must include personal identifying information, such as an address, birthday, driver's license number or last four digits of a Social Security number. A voter's remaining personal information is matched against the information stored on voter rolls, such as a signature.

States verify mailed ballots in different ways. For example, Alabama requires a copy of the voter's ID to be included and either two witnesses older than 18 or a notary public must sign the envelope in addition to the voter. In Maine, a signature by the voter on the envelope is compared to the signature on the absentee ballot application. Likewise, Colorado uses bipartisan teams who compare the signature on every ballot to ones the state has on file for every registered voter.

www.usatoday.com

#60 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-22 12:50 PM | Reply

"That is not the democratic system of government intended."

Since when?

The Founders gave the states nearly carte blanche to run their own elections.

Do you even know that?

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-22 01:02 PM | Reply

I'm not sure that the founders imagined that the honorable men who were elected to the highest office would do such a thing. It's been a slow and meandering death, but the age of honor is about over.

#62 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-11-22 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

25th Amendment !

#63 | Posted by LesWit at 2020-11-22 01:45 PM | Reply

Oh geez Bill Johnson is still on that mail in ballot shtick??? He's like a festering boil on your hiney. Totally annoying.

#64 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-22 02:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Re: #64 LauraMohr

I see what you did there!

#65 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-11-22 02:51 PM | Reply

#52 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

#55 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Show us the actual proof of widescale fraud, Bill. I'm tired of these imagined scenarios that have no basis in evidence. And the courts are getting tired of them too.

#66 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-11-22 03:17 PM | Reply

"One family member can complete everyone's ballots in the family."

There are so many variables against that theory it makes the head spin.

1. The average size family per household is 2.52.
2. Children under age 18 are the majority vs. voting age children still in the house.
3. For the scam to have any effect at all, the other voters would have to have wanted to vote differently than the scammer.
4. It's patently stupid to believe only one party would do this, so in a 51-49 electorate, only a much more dastardly party would have whatever small advantage that would bring.
5. In the vast majority of states, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. For example, Republicans doing this in California, or Democrats in Texas have all the power of a fart in a windstorm.

You'd have to use Republican Math to believe your theory would have a significant enough number of participants to move the needle, much less the outcome.

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2020-11-22 03:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I haven't read one single post on this thread,

Makes sense.

Ignorant people like to remain ignorant.

however I do have a follow up to my earlier post.

Why? Are you going to actually read it?

#68 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-22 03:20 PM | Reply

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Trump lost.

Get that through your dense skull.

You freak show.

#69 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-22 03:21 PM | Reply

Show us the actual proof of widescale fraud, Bill.

He doesn't have any.

He's not going to provide any.

He's an idiot, a liar, and a soar loser.

Literally the definition of a worthless poster.

#70 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-22 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"all the power of a fart in a windstorm"

It's called the Butterfly Fart Effect.

The 9/11 terror attacks propelled Rudy Giuliani to national fame.

Nineteen years later, Rudy is holding press conferences in an adult book store parking lot and filing baseless lawsuits to overturn democracy in American courts.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-22 03:42 PM | Reply

Makes you think...don't it.
#52 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Makes me think Republicans are amazing disingenuous when talking about securing elections, especially tied to mail in voting, when NUMEROUS election security bills died on Mitch McConnell's desk.

Where were you criticizing Senate Republicans when they refused to improve election security, huh BILL? In the LEAST, you should be able to recognize and acknowledge (under your narrative) that the "lack of election security" tied to 2020's election is ENTIRELY bi-partisan, can't you?

Spoiler alert: I'm not holding my breath, BILL. Not one post have I read from you indicating some semblance of reason. You're a two-bit hack just like the rest of them. And you're proving it more and more here on the DR every day.

#72 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-11-22 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BILLJOHNSON -

Uh-mazing. The entire POTUS election comes down to one single individual's presentation of evidence in a court room. An entire election comes down to one person and whether the evidence she claims to be in possession of is legitimate evidence of WIDESPREAD voter fraud. She even claimed today it probably took thousands of people to conspire against Trump in order for Biden to win the election, as he apparently did. Read that again: Thousands of people from numerous countries all risked federal prison time to conspire together with one single goal: to steal the election for Joe Biden. Ever heard of Occam's Razor? Cuz this line of thinking is far from it.

#73 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-11-22 04:56 PM | Reply

Powell has described her main piece of evidence over and over. That being someone from the military, signing a sworn affidavit, that Venezuela conspired with Cuba and China to insert rigged voting hardware/software into numerous states election processes. No documentation, video, or other evidence is mentioned, just one single affidavit. You're telling me an entire election will be overturned because of a single affidavit? She would need mountains of affidavits SPECIFIC to that single allegation to have any sway in a court of law. Or hard evidence to backup the claims made in said affidavit. If she's going to release information about the affidavit and its specifics, it would also behoove her to mention the hard evidence that corroborates said affidavit. Since she's presenting only the former and ignoring the latter, it's safe to say all she has are affidavits. Which, yes, are considered evidence, but not the hard evidence required in this sort of judicial process to sway a court to nullify tens of millions of votes.

#74 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-11-22 04:57 PM | Reply

The whole nature of pretending mail-in ballots is fair is fraudulent in itself.

POSTED BY comrade BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-11-21 11:44 AM | REPLY

You need to provide iron clad proof Billy Boi!

I'm not talking about Rudy Colludy or that old hag he was with bogus claims.

Trump had an international elections observation group observe this election. They claimed it was a very clean election, and his claims of fraud were false and lies.

Stop being a troglodyte Billy, your boy lost fair and square, man up and take the LOSS.

#75 | Posted by a_monson at 2020-11-22 06:37 PM | Reply

#75 | Posted by a_monson

lol thanks man :)

I needed a good chuckle :)

I saw "Billy Boi" and I thought it was BOAZO or MissySGT, but I never posted on this thread so never mind.

#76 | Posted by billy_boy at 2020-11-22 07:38 PM | Reply

#75 The "old hag" is Sidney Powell. She is currently defending Michael Flynn in her own cartoonish way. The judge in that case is fed up with all of them.

#77 | Posted by chuffy at 2020-11-23 01:11 AM | Reply

" #75 The "old hag" is Sidney Powell. She is currently defending Michael Flynn in her own cartoonish way. The judge in that case is fed up with all of them.
#77 | POSTED BY CHUFFY AT 2020-11-23 01:11 AM"

Looks like rats are being kicked off the sinking ship:

www.politico.com

#78 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2020-11-23 01:37 AM | Reply

After Trump, the Congress seriously has to pass a
list of minimum requirements to meet to be eligible
to run for the highest office in the land.

1. Minimum I.Q. score of 115
2. Age at the time of swearing in, not to be over 70...

these 2 should be mandatory as a start to the
new qualifications...

#79 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-11-23 06:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If we're going to contrast voting today to the founders, I doubt they would approve of voting by mail since they didn't even allow anyone to vote except for male white landowners.

They would strongly condemn this idea that someone not vested in the future of this country should have any say how it is run.

#80 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-23 07:06 AM | Reply

" If we're going to contrast voting today to the founders, I doubt they would approve of voting by mail since they didn't even allow anyone to vote except for male white landowners.

They would strongly condemn this idea that someone not vested in the future of this country should have any say how it is run.

#80 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-11-23 07:06 AM"

I'd suggest reading some history of the US. Ironically, not only does absentee voting go back to the beginnings of the USA, it actually pre-dates the USA:

time.com

Of course, this relates to absentee voting, but just how do you suppose those votes were delivered? FAX? Telegraph?? Zoom???

BTW, don't muddy the issue by bringing up who was allowed to vote in the 18th century. That is irrelevant to this discussion.

#81 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2020-11-23 07:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Trump doesn't need to step down. He doesn't need to hand over power.

Regardless of what he does, come noon on 20 January 2021, he's no longer the president.

#82 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-23 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They would strongly condemn this idea that someone not vested in the future of this country should have any say how it is run.

#80 | Posted by BillJohnson

So you're saying the elderly shouldn't get to vote.

I agree.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-11-23 12:10 PM | Reply

"They would strongly condemn this idea that someone not vested in the future of this country should have any say how it is run."
#80 | Posted by BillJohnson

"So you're saying the elderly shouldn't get to vote. I agree."
#83 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I'd go a step further and say that anybody with an end times fetish, anybody who thinks that the eschaton is coming soon and prays for it should be excluded as well.

#84 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2020-11-23 12:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I suppose the founders actually thought a President would be a human, instead of a stinking 300lb pile of excrement.

#85 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2020-11-23 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Brad Raffensperger: Georgia's election results are sound

Georgia's voting system has never been more secure or trustworthy. A newly implemented statewide voting system gave Georgia voters paper ballots for the first time in nearly 20 years. This month, voters could review those paper records and verify that their choices were correct before casting their ballots. Partnerships with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the Georgia Cyber Center at Augusta University, experts from Georgia Tech and election security specialists from around the country help ensure that Georgia's election system remains secure from whatever threats loom on the horizon.

In Georgia, signatures for absentee ballot voters are verified twice to ensure that each voter gets one vote - and only one vote. Voters who request an absentee ballot through the state's new online portal provide a driver's license number for verification. Voter rolls are maintained to ensure that only living and qualified voters remain on the registration lists - and, importantly, that each ballot goes to the correct address.

Georgia just finished its first statewide hand recount, a cutting-edge process that was developed for verifying the accuracy of election results and that is considered the gold standard in election integrity. The General Assembly passed legislation that allowed time to match signatures on ballots as well as creating guides for automatic recounts. The closeness of the presidential race in Georgia required that all ballots be hand-recounted - a process that is in place to ensure the machines are working properly and every ballot has been accounted for.

www.washingtonpost.com

But Bill Johnson swears that this just can't be so! Who to believe, Bill or Brad? You make the call.

#86 | Posted by tonyroma at 2020-11-23 01:50 PM | Reply

The founders didn't build a system that can survive half the country being brainwashed by an evil propaganda network.

They thought they gave us a system that would protect us from electing a sociopathic con man - the electoral college was supposed to ignore the will of the people if the people got this stupid - but that system failed to do it's job.

They thought they gave us a system that could remove a president if he was criminal and corrupt - but they never envisioned what would happen if an entire party became accepting of that crime and corruption. Nearly the entire republican senate said trump didn't deserve to lose his job when he demanded a foreign country create dirt against his enemy if they wanted US aid.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-11-23 02:16 PM | Reply

"The founders didn't build a system that can survive half the country being brainwashed by an evil propaganda network."

No kidding. I mean, imagine if they had envisioned something as terrible as buying and selling human beings and maintaining that system as legal and just.

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-23 02:35 PM | Reply

If we're going to contrast voting today to the founders, I doubt they would approve of...

...anyone other than landowning Christian white males.

Bill would gladly roll back all civil rights in order to protect Trump.

The guy is brain damaged.

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-23 02:44 PM | Reply

imagine if they had envisioned something as terrible as buying and selling human beings and maintaining that system as legal and just.
#88 | POSTED BY EBERLY

The Republican politicians you vote for would gladly sit by and allow Trump to reinstate such laws.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-23 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I don't think self-loathing Bill understands how mail-in voting works.

Sincerely,
Oregon Voter

#91 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2020-11-23 03:13 PM | Reply

Sincerely,
Oregon Voter

#91 | Posted by mOntecOre

And Utah, and Washington State, and ...

#92 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-23 03:25 PM | Reply

"And Utah, and Washington State, and ...
#92 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY"

Umm, no. I am not registered, nor permitted, to vote in those states. :D

#93 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2020-11-23 05:31 PM | Reply

No kidding. I mean, imagine if they had envisioned something as terrible as buying and selling human beings and maintaining that system as legal and just.

#88 | Posted by eberly

Half your party still sees no problem with that.

#94 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2020-11-23 06:08 PM | Reply

My whole point is not overturning the election. That would be a disaster.

However, mail-in ballots should be banned for no other reason than the potential for fraud.

I mean...how utterly rediculous we have to show an id to vote in person which does have merit, but anyone can complete your ballet and it would be very easy to fool the system.

Mail-in ballots are wrong for America.

Early voting you have a month to get to a voting station. Get off the sofa and go vote if you want to cast a vote.

Apply for an absentee ballot if you qualify.

#95 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2020-11-24 08:42 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

You've been told the truth over and over and you refuse to listen.
You're an idiot, Bill.
A total and complete idiot.
I can't be kinder than the above.

#96 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-24 08:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

However, mail-in ballots should be banned for no other reason than the potential for fraud.
I mean...how utterly rediculous we have to show an id to vote in person which does have merit, but anyone can complete your ballet and it would be very easy to fool the system.
Mail-in ballots are wrong for America.
Early voting you have a month to get to a voting station. Get off the sofa and go vote if you want to cast a vote.
Apply for an absentee ballot if you qualify.
POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2020-11-24 08:42 AM | REPLY

You're like a rabbit turd filled box of milk duds. You have no credible reason to ban mail in voting. It's been trustworthy since 1775. BTW Mail in ballots and mail in ballots are virtually the same thing and guess what?? It utilizes the same USPS Postal systen to get them to the local elections office.

#97 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-24 08:52 AM | Reply

Excuse me Absentee ballots and mail in ballots are virtually the same thing.

#98 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-24 08:54 AM | Reply

Colorado
Hawaii
Oregon
Utah
Washington

All 100% Mail-in.
For YEARS. for DECADES.
Any fraud? No.

Then there are the other 29 states (and D.C.) which offer "no-excuse" absentee voting. How much fraud? ZERO for all practical measurements.

Sure there are one or two cases out of billions of votes - like the two cast in PA by a REPUBLICAN that deliberately voted in place of his dead mother and his son, but that is extremely rare and he was caught.

You know who thinks there could be fraud? Idiots that have no idea how mail-in balloting works. Idiots that listen to liars because the liars know how to speak to your true feelings. Appealing to your base instincts.

#99 | Posted by YAV at 2020-11-24 08:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Mail-in ballots are wrong for America"

Wow.

#100 | Posted by hamburglar at 2020-11-24 10:47 AM | Reply

"Excuse me Absentee ballots and mail in ballots are virtually the same thing."

Yeah...so my question...what's the difference. I'm in the military. Virtually all active-duty military vote by mail. So do college students attending college in a state that's not their residence. So do members of DoS missions overseas.

In total, there are about nine million American citizens living overseas. Only a few thousand actually relinquish their citizenship, typically due to the US's draconian policy on overseas savings accounts.

#101 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-24 01:50 PM | Reply

For me to recieve my ballot, I had to fill out an online application in my home state. once reviewed, they emailed me a ballot, which I had to fill out, place in an envelope marked "voted ballot," place that envelope inside another envelope, and then mail everything to the county elections office.

It seemed pretty secure to me.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-24 01:53 PM | Reply

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