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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, November 27, 2020

Democrats once dominated Koochiching County in the blue-collar Iron Range of northern Minnesota. But in this month's presidential election, President Donald Trump won it with 60% of the vote.

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Buncha uneducated racist sexist white males voted for Trump again.

Did anyone expect anything else?

I don't see what message the Democrats will ever be able to win them over with.

Only through education can we eliminate poverty.

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 9

"Only through education can we eliminate poverty."

A bit of a problem when rural education is hobbled by poverty.

#2 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-11-27 12:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#2 That is by design.

Poor areas are not supposed to be as nice as rich areas.

Making things better for poor people is coddling them, according to Republican values.

And the poor Republican people actually believe it.

Heck, even not-poor Republicans like Eberly and Boaz believe it.

You can't fight a cult with facts.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 01:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

As far as this perceived 'shift left'...

Imagine congress today trying muster bi-partisan support for a Clean Air Act, as they did in the 60's and 70's

No Republican would vote for it

#4 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2020-11-27 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can people be so stewpid??? Sad thing is you can't educate those people. I just smile and nod when I'm around them.

#5 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-27 01:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a crock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can people be so stewpid??? Sad thing is you can't educate those people. I just smile and nod when I'm around them.#5 | Posted by LauraMohr

Said the 2016 Jill Stein voter who doubled down last election?

#6 | Posted by censored at 2020-11-27 01:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

Said the 2016 Jill Stein voter who doubled down last election?

POSTED BY CENSORED AT 2020-11-27 01:50 PM | REPLY

Don't foist corporate sell outs who won't push M4A and You'll have my vote.

#7 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-27 02:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

Don't foist corporate sell outs who won't push M4A and You'll have my vote. #7 | Posted by LauraMohr

And lose 5 votes from people who fear "soshulism" to gain one vote from you?

Politics is about compromise. It took decades for the Repubs to capture the judiciary, which will now strike down any significant left-of-center policies. It will take similar effort from progressives for many years to restore any balance there. That means the left will have to make difficult choices supporting less than ideal candidates, just like the right did by electing Trump. There is also the saying that half a loaf is better than no loaf.

In any event, you saw what the Repubs did to cripple our postal service, disenfranchise minorities, break the census and target Blue states with a pandemic. Another four years of Trump could have proved an existential threat to democracy in this country. If you don't see how voting in a way that did nothing to stop Trump was problematic, then maybe you should reconsider calling others "stewpid."

#8 | Posted by censored at 2020-11-27 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Don't foist corporate sell outs who won't push M4A and You'll have my vote.
#7 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Fake news.
Biden won the primary, and it wasn't even close.

Bug hey, you can vote however you want. That's your right.

You can also lie however you want. That's your right too.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's not because voters there are suddenly shifting to the right, said Tom Bakk, who represents the area in the state Senate. It's because, he said, Democrats have steadily moved too far to the left for many rural voters...
...
In clinging to their majority, House Democrats lost rural seats, notably the one held for 30 years by Rep. Collin Peterson in western Minnesota. The setbacks prompted accusations from moderates that the party's prominent liberals, such as New York Rep. Alexandra Ocasio Cortez, had become representative of a party foreign to America's farming and small manufacturing towns...
...
Unanswered, Trump's claims that Biden and other Democrats are proponents of socialism and eliminating police departments, as unfounded as they were, resonated in small towns, according to VoteCast, an Associated Press survey of the American electorate conducted by NORC at the University of Chicago

If Democrats don't find some way to counter this Republican manufactured perception the Democrats have moved dramatically to the left, Democrats will not hold the Presidency in 2024.

If anything, over the last three decades Democrats have moved significantly to the center, drug there by the Republicans unrelenting shift to the extreme right.(see fascism) Democrats are currently more akin to Reagan Republicans than FDR/Harry S. Truman Democrats.

Harry S. Truman: First U.S. POTUS to suggest we should have universal healthcare:

In a draft message to Congress in 1947, Truman wrote: "Healthy citizens constitute our greatest natural resource, and prudence as well as justice demands that we husband that resource. ... as a nation we should not reserve good health and long productive life for the well-to-do, only, but should strive to make good health equally available to all citizens."

This was almost 75 years ago. We still haven't got it done. And neo-liberal Dems are as entrenched against it as ever.

#10 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2020-11-27 02:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

What Biden does to help rural voters will make or break their view of Democrats like no one since FDR.

#11 | Posted by Tor at 2020-11-27 02:53 PM | Reply

"Harry S. Truman: First U.S. POTUS to suggest we should have universal healthcare"

That's when the AMA invented the term "Socialized Medicine" to scare ignorant Americans, to protect their profits.

75 years later, Conservatives (and Libertarians) are still ginning up fear of the Socialist boogeyman.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 03:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

#19 Democrats did Obamacare and twenty million more Americans got insurance.
Republicans are still trying to kill Obamacare.
Just what side do you think your bread is buttered on when it comes to health care, Laura?

POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2020-11-27 04:35 PM | REPLY

Democrats gave us a Republican created health Care insurance. You really want to tout it as some sort of Progressive thing?? REALLY??

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-27 04:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Democrats gave us a Republican created health Care insurance."

Yes, it's true.
Democrats gave more of us health insurance.
Republicans are still trying to take it away.

What are you trying to do? Just having a good cry, is what it seems like you are trying to do here.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 04:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

"You really want to tout it as some sort of Progressive thing?"

Progressive? No, just progress.
20 million more people having health insurance than before is in fact progress.
It's not as much progress as I'd like, but it's definitely progress.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 04:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

If Laura lost 30 pounds, she'd stop the diet because she hadn't yet lost 100 pounds.

It makes a lot of sense if... OK, it makes no sense at all.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-27 05:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

If Laura lost 30 pounds, she'd stop the diet because she hadn't yet lost 100 pounds.
It makes a lot of sense if... OK, it makes no sense at all.

POSTED BY CORKY AT 2020-11-27 05:06 PM | REPLY

What are you saying?? That I have a weight problem?? TSK TSK TSK.

#17 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-27 05:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So, no argument. Thanks for the confirmation of what I said.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-27 05:15 PM | Reply

So, no argument. Thanks for the confirmation of what I said.

POSTED BY CORKY AT 2020-11-27 05:15 PM | REPLY

You're a shill for the DNC Dear. Ergo it's not worth discussing with you.

#19 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2020-11-27 05:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"20 million more people having health insurance than before is in fact progress. "

Or rather 20 million more customers of private health insurance companies who add zero value. Who drain the system. Leeches, scum.

20 million more customers for them.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-27 05:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

www.fiercehealthcare.com

Anybody still arguing we're going to get rid of health insurance companies?

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-27 05:42 PM | Reply

"Anybody still arguing we're going to get rid of health insurance companies?"

Only if wishing for it count as arguing.

Even Trump said there are some people who will never get commercial insurance.

Which pretty much means they could only get government insurance.

At an existential level insurance companies aren't the problem. There are insurance companies in Canada and Germany. The problem is what American insurance companies do different from their counterparts in the rest of the modern world.

Capitalism is the problem.

Admittedly, the point I'm making is pretty darn close to a distinction without a difference.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 06:00 PM | Reply

- it's not worth discussing with you.

Like I said, you are incapable of rational argument; characterization is all you ever bring.

Prolly stems from the inability to admit being wrong.... about anything.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-27 06:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Or rather 20 million more customers of private health insurance companies who add zero value. Who drain the system. Leeches, scum."

They don't add zero value.

They provide us with roughly the same value as people in Europe get, for the low, low price of 2-3x what it costs in Europe.

Capitalism is the only thing that makes them leeches.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 06:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Like I said, you are incapable of rational argument; characterization is all you ever bring.

Prolly stems from the inability to admit being wrong.... about anything.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-27 06:00 PM | Reply

Just to add my worthless two cents on this, for lauras sake, maybe she'll listen...

You have changed the way you post on here, it used to be very strong factual opinions, now it's only personal insults.

DO with that info what you will.

#25 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2020-11-27 06:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#16 ... If Laura lost 30 pounds, she'd stop the diet because she hadn't yet lost 100 pounds. ...

Really?

Where in the world did that come from?

I am sincerely interested in your explanation of why that is a reasonable reply to any comment.

in thx advance

#26 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-27 09:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You mean the comment with 3 NW flags?

Apparently it wasn't lost on some people.

Laura has often spoken of her weight, so it wasn't meant as an insult, but rather as a fairly obvious example of her view on incrementalism; that it is not worthwhile to pursue anything less than immediate satisfaction, even if that means no gains at all.

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-27 09:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Also known as "making the good the enemy of the perfect."

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 10:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#27 ... You mean the comment with 3 NW flags? ...

Deflection. Or are you now subscribing to Populism?

... Laura has often spoken of her weight, so it wasn't meant as an insult, but rather as a fairly obvious example of her view on incrementalism; that it is not worthwhile to pursue anything less than immediate satisfaction, even if that means no gains at all. ...

So, because she has, in your words, often spoken of her weight, you feel it is appropriate to denigrate what she posts here?

That is what I had asked you to substantiate. And you did not substantiate. You merely repeated what you had said. So you have earned A Nice Try.


In your words of that NW 3 comment, "it makes no sense at all."

And I'd agree with that.

#29 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-27 11:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This song just happened upon my current playlist...

Too Much Joy - The Kids Don't Understand
www.youtube.com

"... stick your heads back in the sand..."

Sometimes, lyrics are so apropos.

"...no such ting as a normal childhood..."

:)

#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-27 11:25 PM | Reply

Is it the weight thing specifically that's bothering you?

Would it be better if Corky said "If Laura earned 30 bucks, she'd quit the job because she hadn't yet earned 100 bucks."

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 11:29 PM | Reply

@#31 ... Is it the weight thing specifically that's bothering you? ...

Not at all.

Back in the early 90's I was a member of a Compuserve IT-oriented message board.

It was a brutal board.

But there was one main rule - no, zero, absolutely zero, ad hominem attacks.

That led to comments like, "your comment makes you like like an incandescent analpore" instead of "you are an -------."

While it is a subtle difference, arguably, it taught me that my disagreement with what is posted is exactly that, a disagreement with what is posted.

In the long run it lead to a message board from which I learned much.

To give you context, this was the time of Windows vs OS/2. It was brutal to be in IT back then. As a technical director of the company in the burgeoning PC arena, I sat in meetings with Microsoft and IBM reps. Hours and hours of meetings. OS/2 was far better a solution technically and business-wise (imho), but Mr Gates', ummm, quasi-legal, business tactics won the day.

But I digress... :)

#32 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-27 11:46 PM | Reply

I didn't realize Compuserve was still around in the 90s, but I guess it makes sense.

A former boss of mine still has an AOL email address.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-27 11:51 PM | Reply

@#33 ,i> ... I didn't realize Compuserve was still around in the 90s, but I guess it makes sense. ...

The early 90's were the heyday of Compuserve, if memory serves me.

Then, mid 90's or so, the Internet kicked in, and here we are. :)

fwiw, I had my first email address and participated in message boards in the 1970's.

Back then you have to build your computer. "Build" meant soldering components into circuit boards, not figuring out which graphics card to buy.

My first home computer had 64K of memory. That held the operating system and the apps.

64K.

At the time, professionally I had to write programs that did accounts payable functionality. I had 256KB of memory to work in. It was a different thought process... For example, you had to send data to a mainframe at 300bps, but the computer's CPU was not fast enough to calculate the XModem checksum to keep up with the 30 characters per second transmission rate. What do you do?

Ahhh... the good old days...

:)

#34 | Posted by LampLighter at 2020-11-28 12:25 AM | Reply

I live in a rural area. Well meaning people but many of them just aren't too bright. They are gullible and get their news from republican radio. Dems need to forget about them for real. Do things that appeal to the city dwellers where most people live. Most elections will be close but winnable.

#35 | Posted by byrdman at 2020-11-28 04:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This thread is an excellent example of the need for a return to discourse ethics in this party.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2020-11-28 09:12 AM | Reply

"You have changed the way you post on here, it used to be very strong factual opinions, now it's only personal insults."

On the scale of folks here, Corky hasn't deteriorated like some others have.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2020-11-28 10:22 AM | Reply

This thread is an excellent example of the need for a return to discourse ethics in this party.
#36 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I don't follow, can you explain? What's the need, exactly, and what are a few of the examples. And which one is "this party." Presumably you aren't talking about Libertarians... :)

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 11:08 AM | Reply

"Buncha uneducated racist sexist white males voted for Trump again."

Attitudes like this are why the Republicans are going to dominate in future elections. I'll assume you read the article...you just chose to ignore it because it doesn't fit with your world view.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 12:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Making things better for poor people is coddling them, according to Republican values."

Republicans aren't insulting rural voters or threatening to eliminate their jobs in pursuit of ideological achievement. Progressives are doing just that, and then insulting them as uneducated racists when they vote for the opposition.

Hell, Trump won Texas with an unprecedented amount of Latino support. But, keep calling them uneducated racists. Maybe you can guilt them into voting differently in the future.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 12:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Capitalism is the problem."

Is it?

Is that why people from overseas come to the US to get healthcare?

I wouldn't really call it capitalism, but doctors being free to provide care to paying patients with little to no government interference is a good thing.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 12:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Republicans aren't insulting rural voters or threatening to eliminate their jobs in pursuit of ideological achievement."

Yes they are.

Trump's ideology created a trade war.

Trump's ideology is why we deport workers rural American needs.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Is that why people from overseas come to the US to get healthcare?"

Sorry, who does this? Are you talking about after our troops get patched up at Landstuhl or something?

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"doctors being free to provide care to paying patients with little to no government interference is a good thing"

Why is that good, that only people with money can see the doctor?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 12:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump's ideology is why we deport workers rural American needs."

Sure, Champ.

The miners and oil workers would be far better off under the Green New Deal.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 12:52 PM | Reply

"Why is that good, that only people with money can see the doctor?"

Is it bad that a doctor is able to sell his services to a willing customer?

The doctor can still choose to treat whomever they want, rich or poor.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 12:53 PM | Reply

"The miners and oil workers would be far better off under the Green New Deal."

They probably would be better off in jobs without so much exposure to known carcinogens.

Like solar and wind jobs.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 12:54 PM | Reply

"Is it bad that a doctor is able to sell his services to a willing customer?"

Depends.

Let's say the customer is the nation, and so is the payer.

You're calling that bad?

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 01:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Like solar and wind jobs."

Maybe. But they don't seem to be sold on the progressive's vision of what America should look like.

And I' don't know...if jobs in solar or wind start off at wages comparable to what you could earn in the oil patch. When I was living up in ND years ago, there were welders making more than doctors.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 01:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Let's say the customer is the nation, and so is the payer."

That's not thing...so, yes...it would be bad.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 01:06 PM | Reply

Hilarious.

With all the actual ad hominem around here, the Pedant Lamplighter chooses that innocuous post of mine to whine about...
while conveniently ignoring it's spot on analogy, which was easily recognized by other posters.

Maybe he just needed a nap.

#51 | Posted by Corky at 2020-11-28 01:08 PM | Reply

"That's not thing...so, yes...it would be bad."

That's the way it works in the military, MadBomber.

Health.mil is bad?

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 01:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You have changed the way you post on here, it used to be very strong factual opinions, now it's only personal insults."

On the scale of folks here, Corky hasn't deteriorated like some others have.
#37 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Just an FYI.

That comment by Alex was directed at Laura. Not Corky.

#53 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-28 01:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't think the government should insult rural folks by forcing socialism like farm subsidies on them. They are independents, lets let them be. Zero farm subsidies, no subsidized crop insurance or flood insurance. Let the market dictate prices of food and land.

#54 | Posted by bored at 2020-11-28 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Republicans aren't insulting rural voters

No, Republicans prefer insulting urban voters.

threatening to eliminate their jobs in pursuit of ideological achievement.

Republicans prefer eliminating rural jobs by moving them over seas or down to Mexico. Or by waging trade wars with China.

Progressives are doing just that,

We are? Citations necessary.

and then insulting them as uneducated racists when they vote for the opposition.

If the shoe fits. But hey. Maybe they can prove us wrong when they start demanding better education in rural America. Maybe they can prove us wrong when they don't pretend the Bible is justification for discrimination. Maybe they can prove us wrong when they don't vote for the next wannabe Hitler.

Trump won Texas with an unprecedented amount of Latino support.

Yea. Uneducated, rural Latinos.

But, keep calling them uneducated racists.

They are. But perhaps you believe only white folks can be uneducated racists. Who knows what an idiot like you believes.

Maybe you can guilt them into voting differently in the future.
#40 | POSTED BY QAnonBomber

There's a lot of things Democrats need to do.

But worrying about a bunch of racist, hateful trump voters should be lowest of their priorities.

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-28 01:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The miners and oil workers would be far better off under the Green New Deal.
#45 | POSTED BY QAnonBomber

QAnon here lost tons of sleep when the horse and buggy got put out by the automobile.

Remember when Trump was going to save coal??

Conservatives. They really hate and fear change.

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-28 01:50 PM | Reply

"and then insulting them as uneducated racists when they vote for the opposition."

F--- Your Feelings.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 01:51 PM | Reply

"That's the way it works in the military, MadBomber."

So here's how it works in the military. As an aviator, I have flight doctors I see. And it's probably some of the best healthcare one could ever hope to get. It's almost like having your own personal doctor on retainer. For the family members, it's a bit different. We have a healthcare plan, called Tricare, which is basically a commercial healthcare plan. But, like medicare, it pays relatively little, so there are a limited number of doctors you can see. They have to choose to be part of the network.

And that's good. Doctors shouldn't be forced to participate in plans that they don't want to participate in.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 01:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Remember when Trump was going to save coal??"

But only the "big beautiful clean coal".

Not the little ugly dirty coal.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2020-11-28 01:58 PM | Reply

Conservatives. They really hate and fear change.
#56 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

"Opposition to change" is the most accurate functional description of the so-called philosophy called Conservatism.
But you're right, their opposition is rooted in fear.
Fear of the unknown. Fear of outsiders. Fear of other-ness. Fear of the new, while clinging desperately to the old.
Unless it's a new truck, which they can't afford, and don't even need.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Doctors shouldn't be forced to participate in plans that they don't want to participate in."

They chose to be forced to participate in plans they don't want to participate in, MadBomber.
How can you not see that?
???

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:02 PM | Reply

"F--- Your Feelings."

Me? Or them?

And this is why progressives are finding themselves on the ropes.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 02:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Remember when Trump was going to save coal??"

If the Dems want to stay competitive themselves, they need to focus on saving coal themselves. And petroleum. And heavy industry.

And also, stop calling everyone a racist who doesn't agree with the progressive 25 point plan.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-28 02:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You can't "save" coal, it's the blockbuster video of fossil fuels. It's over.

#64 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2020-11-28 02:14 PM | Reply

"F--- Your Feelings."
Me? Or them?

You couldn't tell whose feelings the couple in the F--- Your Feelings T-shirts were talking about?

You're really, really bad at playing dumb.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And this is why progressives are finding themselves on the ropes.
#62 | POSTED BY QAnonBomber

Newsflash, idiot.

"Fkkk your feelings!" Was the 2016 Republican mantra in response to Hillary losing and Trump's victory.

Also. What are these ropes? Democrats just won the executive branch and have a shot of securing both branches Congress.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-28 02:18 PM | Reply

If the Dems want to stay competitive themselves, they need to focus on saving coal themselves.
#63 | POSTED BY -----------

Just like Donnie did?

Are you ever right?

Not based on your posting history.

You mouth breathing deplorable.

#67 | Posted by ClownShack at 2020-11-28 02:21 PM | Reply

I would agree w one thing from this article, and that is a lack of transmission of
democratic ideas and policy choices breaking
through to, and mattering to, those who lean
right in suburban America. The dems NEED to find a way to advance policies that matter to
everyday suburban whites. Three areas I would
definitely focus on.

1. Shore up Social Security- (and let the Right beat themselves to death trying to defeat
the Dems defending Middle America's right to a
paid retirement.

2. Help eliminate SOME student debt. Shoot for
a goal of eliminating 10k of student debt per student (or 5k, or some % thereof). And again,
let the Right flail and beat themselves to death, defending big loan companies right to squeeze American students out of every penny
they can.

3. Help shore up/fix Obamacare/Medical care in this country. One of the only things I agreed w Trump on was that he was right to challenge the medical industry's dominance on setting the prices for prescriptions in this country. Let's face it (whether you label it Socialism,
or something else) the medical industry like all industries in this country is there to maximize profits. And our country is almost unique in it's fear of socialized anything, and it's insistence of putting corporate profit over the well being of the people. Deny the corporations their outrageous profits, and support the people's right to affordable Healthcare.

4. Instead of talking about it, actually invest those 10's of billions of dollars into fixing our roads, our crumbling bridges, and in converting our infrastructure into a Green Economy.

5. And lastly, realize that it is stupid to chase total solutions to any problem, and that incremental progress, is still real, electable, statistically measurable process. Obama's and HRC's main flaw w Healthcare (I thought) was that they both tried to tackle the whole issue. And both became bogged down by the enormity of it all. It hindered other areas that needed addressing.

I believe most Democrats CRAVE the old actions speak louder than words democrats of old. Your F.D.R.'s and your Truman's. And I believe Middle America would rally behind that. The corporate and Wall Street Dems have been wrong for the past 2 decades. And they need to take a back seat.

Do this, and the Dems will have no problems getting elected. Don't do this, and expect more happy days for Republicans.

I have spoken.

#68 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-11-28 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

And also, stop calling everyone a racist who doesn't agree with the progressive 25 point plan.
#63 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

America's history is a deeply racist history.
America was literally born of racism. A compromise to count Blacks as three-fifths of a person... but only to confer disproportionate political benefit of their White masters, and cement slavery as a fixture of Capitalism.

Racist philosophers enshrined slavery in our Pantheon as our Original Sin. socialtextjournal.org

So, what's wrong with calling that out?
Does it hurt your feelings?
F--- Your Feelings.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The dems NEED to find a way to advance policies that matter to
everyday suburban whites."

They should to back to being the racist party then.
Because that's how Republicans advance their policies that matter to everyday suburban whites.
Like when Trump told the suburban housewives "I saved your neighborhood!"

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:25 PM | Reply

If the Dems want to stay competitive themselves, they need to focus on saving coal themselves.
#63 | POSTED BY -----------

Like Mitch McConnell, when Republicans had Congress and the WH and coal miners from KY rented a bus to meet with him in DC and he blew them off?

#71 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2020-11-28 02:28 PM | Reply

1. Shore up Social Security
This requires raising taxes, so you can't make any inroads there.

2. Help eliminate SOME student debt.
That's a handout, so you can't make any inraods there.

3. Help shore up/fix Obamacare/Medical care in this country.
Another handout.

4. Instead of talking about it, actually invest those 10's of billions of dollars into fixing our roads
What tens of billions of dollars? When Obama tried that with the ARRA, Republicans hated it, and they'll hate it again.

5. And lastly, realize that it is stupid to chase total solutions to any problem, and that incremental progress, is still real, electable, statistically measurable process.
Realize that Republicans fear incremental progress as much as sweeping change. Incremental progress is how we let gays marry, and women vote, and how we're trying to put an end to systemic racial injustice. For example, a common argument against a public option is it's intended to kill for-profit health care. Look at how they've enacted gun laws that go far beyond what's protected by the Second Amendment, out of fear that something like a gun registry will be used to go on a gun grab.

It doesn't sound like you understand the Conservative ideology.
It sounds like you're treating them like rational human beings.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2020-11-28 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"If the Dems want to stay competitive themselves, they need to focus on saving coal themselves. And petroleum. And heavy industry."

People do not get any stupider than this.

#73 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-11-28 09:37 PM | Reply

#26 | Posted by LampLighter

It goes back about 15 or so yrs.

It was a reasonable reply.

You'd understand if you'd been there.

#74 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-11-28 09:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#70. I disagree. Give middle class white America the feeling of progress on any or more than one of the issues I previously mentioned, and I believe many of them would stop feeling so sorry for themselves and realize that progress was being made. They are not all white supremacist animals. Most are highly stressed people with little to no hope of improving their lives...thus they look for scapegoats and lash out.

#75 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-11-28 10:19 PM | Reply

#72...#1. Middle America will go along with tax increases if the burden is placed mostly on the rich to pay for it, and if its on something that directly improves their lives...like S.S. So I think you are wrong on no. 1

#2. Done by Presidential signing statement.

#3. fixing or making healthcare better is hardly a handout.

and lastly...because its late and I don't want to type forever, you paint with too broad a brush and shove all Republicans into the category of non-thinking Neanderthal heatens...
again, a dramatic oversimplification, and not a very valid argument.

#76 | Posted by earthmuse at 2020-11-28 10:31 PM | Reply

"...you paint with too broad a brush and shove all Republicans into the category of non-thinking Neanderthal heatens..."

77% of Trump voters believe the election was a fraud.

#77 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-11-28 10:38 PM | Reply

"You can't "save" coal, it's the blockbuster video of fossil fuels. It's over."

It still contributes 11% of electrical power production in the US.

I definitely think that the era of the petrol powered vehicle is coming to an end, I'm just not clear on what energy source will be used to charge all those electric batteries.

#78 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 02:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Also. What are these ropes? Democrats just won the executive branch and have a shot of securing both branches Congress."

They won the presidency against a candidate that was quite possibly the worst in history. They lost territory in the house. We'll find out where the senate goes in January.

It should have been a landslide.

#79 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 03:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

What happens in 2024 when the Republicans run a candidate that isn't a steam pile of ----?

#80 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 03:03 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Deny the corporations their outrageous profits, and support the people's right to affordable Healthcare."

Most countries manage to provide both entry-level healthcare, as well as premium services for those who are willing to pay for it.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 03:16 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So, what's wrong with calling that out?"

Because it's immaterial.

The "racists" who founded this country have been dead for centuries. It's like saying that Germany is a deeply anti-Semitic country because the Nazi's once existed.

#82 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 03:19 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Like when Trump told the suburban housewives "I saved your neighborhood!

And that likely resonated in those cities nationwide where rioters were setting stuff on fire and crime rates were going through the roof, all the while many on the left were calling for the defunding of police.

#83 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-29 03:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Well meaning people but many of them just aren't too bright. They are gullible and get their news from republican radio.

Unless we can get back to a communications environment where all sides of an issue are given a complete and thorough airing, many people are going to be misled. C-SPAN comes to closest to being fair but they often fail when they bring on a single controversial guest. Controversial positions must be countered "in real time" so as to enable viewers to weigh the relative merits of each position.

C-SPAN also needs to alert its guests that it will be enforcing a rule that no demonstraly false assertions will be unchallenged i.e. fact checking will occur in real time. In effect, they must not allow their network to be used to spread lies.

#84 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2020-11-29 08:30 AM | Reply

"What happens in 2024 when the Republicans run a candidate that isn't a steam pile of ----?"
#80 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Guaranteed a "steaming pile" is a prerequisite. Also a proclivity to commit subversion. There are two names in the hat already.

#85 | Posted by Twinpac at 2020-11-29 09:28 AM | Reply

If the Dems want to stay competitive themselves, they need to focus on saving coal themselves. And petroleum. And heavy industry.
#63 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

There is no saving coal. Coal is being crushed by market forces.

As a self-anointed economics expert I would expect you to know that. Maybe YOU should be the one investing in a good economics farce....I mean class?

#86 | Posted by jpw at 2020-11-29 11:13 AM | Reply

#68 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE

I admire your optimism.

But never forget these are the type of the people who will protest with signs reading "keep your government hands off my medicare."

They'll literally slap the food out of your hand as "soshulizm" then whine a week later that government does nothing to help them when they're starving.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2020-11-29 11:17 AM | Reply

"...you paint with too broad a brush and shove all Republicans into the category of non-thinking Neanderthal heatens..."
77% of Trump voters believe the election was a fraud.

#77 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

LOL angrydad just Karate Kid swan kicked earthmuse right in the mug.

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2020-11-29 11:20 AM | Reply

Posted by madbomber

Jesus wept, man.

You're just an endless fountain of stupid.

#89 | Posted by Angrydad at 2020-11-29 01:36 PM | Reply

"Unless we can get back to a communications environment where all sides of an issue are given a complete and thorough airing, many people are going to be misled."

Tucker Carlson does not want to present all sides. Nor Does Rachel Maddow. And I don't think most of their viewers are interested in opposing views.

#90 | Posted by madbomber at 2020-11-30 12:47 PM | Reply

Tucker Carlson does not want to present all sides. Nor Does Rachel Maddow. And I don't think most of their viewers are interested in opposing views.
#90 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You must not pay attention. A side is presented only to be torn apart by the contrarian view point, regardless of what it is.

#91 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2020-11-30 01:00 PM | Reply

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