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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, January 14, 2021

When one of their Republican members chose to keep a door open for insurrectionists there was nearly a bloodbath in the Oregon legislature which is now voting in favor of the offending member losing all of his privileges being required to pay for all the damages and being told they would like it if he left the legislature. His personal responsibility was lacking.

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The state of Oregon has an issue with protesters or the damage they cause?

Is this an Onion piece?

#1 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-12 10:16 PM | Reply

Are there two Oregons?

Maybe one I wasn't aware of?

#2 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-12 10:16 PM | Reply

Maybe you didn't notice Madman but psychos with rifles tried to get into the legislature.

This isn't Portland outside of that nice little hippie non reality land Oregon is a tough state comprised of lumberjacks Ranchers and people illegally growing weed all of which are fast with their guns.

#3 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-12 10:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

@#3

I think the issue is that the MADBOMBER alias seems to have difficulty distinguishing between protesters rioting and destroying property, and insurrectionists who riot and destroy property, but have another goal of taking over and/or destroying government possibly by murdering elected officials.


#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-01-12 10:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 10

"This isn't Portland outside of that nice little hippie non reality land Oregon is a tough state comprised of lumberjacks Ranchers and people illegally growing weed all of which are fast with their guns."

It sounds like you're familiar with Oregon.

I grew up in Newberg. My sister and mother still live in Bend.

I also lived for a bit of time in North Powder, about half-way between Bend and LaGrande.

#5 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-12 10:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I think the issue is that the MADBOMBER alias seems to have difficulty distinguishing between protesters rioting and destroying property, and insurrectionists who riot and destroy property, but have another goal of taking over and/or destroying government possibly by murdering elected officials."

No, I don't distinguish between the two.

Both should be crushed. The only distinction being that you crush the wolf that's closest to the sled first. In this case, the rioters who stormed the Capitol. But it doesn't mean you ignore all the other groups...you just prioritize them lower.

Think about the riots in Portland. They were incredibly violent relative to the number of people participating in the riot. Can you imagine the outcome if someone of sufficient influence encouraged them to storm a building or kill people?

Like I said. You use the McChrystal model and map out the networks. Hopefully they remain relatively peaceful, but if they get violent you're already spring-loaded to dismantle that network.

#6 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-12 11:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

@#6 ... I don't distinguish between the two. ...

I've noticed. And that was my point.

... Can you imagine the outcome if someone of sufficient influence encouraged them to storm a building or kill people? ...

There's those monsters under your bed.

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-01-12 11:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"I've noticed. And that was my point."

Is there some reason I should distinguish between the two?

I mean, I guess technically I did. I conducted some field threat prioritization based on my understanding of the operational environment.

Do you think I underprioritized in some way?

#8 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-12 11:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#8 ... Is there some reason I should distinguish between the two? ...

When charging and possibly convicting someone for criminal activity, I think the evidence should be what happened, and not what someone fantasizes might happen if only things were different.




#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-01-12 11:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

If you buy me a hamburger today, I'll gladly pay you back Tuesday.

#10 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-13 05:46 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Both should be crushed.

Be honest, has anybody argued in favor of those riots?

Because people keep whatabouting the insurrection by bringing up riots nobody seems to have supported.

Then act surprised when when people react with a "WTF dude" and assume they're justifying the insurrection.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-13 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Trumpers seem hell bent on disregarding intent.

It's the only way they can justifiably compare riots against a courthouse that was met with extensive law enforcement responses (some even being highly questionable) with the seizing of the US capitol building with the intention of halting the legitimate transfer of power between administrations, otherwise known as an attempted coup.

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-13 11:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

twitter.com

From Gal on the AOC thread.

THAT is why this is different, Mad. Just stop with the --------.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-13 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

"Because people keep whatabouting the insurrection by bringing up riots nobody seems to have supported."

Yeah, so the people on the right who demanded that troops by deployed to Portland to defend federal property and crush antifa are now the same ones making excuses for the rioters who stormed the Capitol building.

On the other hand, you have people on the left who appear to want to crush those who stormed the Capitol, while STILL making excuses for the rioters in Portland.

Bottom line what you're arguing for is an uneven application of the law, based on your own internal biases. Compare that with someone like myself, who would like to see all entities that engage in violent behavior as a means of achieving a political end (which is the definition of terrorism, BTW) infiltrated and mapped, so that if they do cross a threshold, it's much easier to destroy, or at least disrupt them. And we have a lot of experience in doing that.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-13 09:44 PM | Reply

#14

WhataboutismBomber!

When it's all ya got.

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-13 09:47 PM | Reply

"No, I don't distinguish between the two."

Come on.

That's like saying you don't see color.

Unless you're literally colorblind, you can distinguish between the two.

As a matter of fact, one of your recent posts suggested thar there were Antifa dressed up like Proud Boys who stormed the Capitol.

So you definitely distinguish between the two when you want to.

But hey, maybe you don't distinguish between lying to make your point, and telling the truth to make your point.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-13 10:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Years ago I read Sonny Gravano's autobiography.

At a point in the book he is recalling being a child, and seeing the local mafiosi running around. When he asked his father about them, he told Sonny that they were "bad" people. Sonny asked his father why they didn't do anything about them, to which his father responded, "because they're our bad people."

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-13 10:02 PM | Reply

"As a matter of fact, one of your recent posts suggested thar there were Antifa dressed up like Proud Boys who stormed the Capitol."

I think you have me confused with someone else, sir.

I don't think there is a rational path by which one could come to that conclusion.

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-13 10:03 PM | Reply

The conclusion being that the rioters in Washington were antifa.

And if they were, you fellers would be going on about how it was just a few bad apples, or maybe right wing protesters dressed as antifa, and that the vast majority of the attendees were merely expressing their support for freedom and justice.

Oh, and that cops shouldn't interfere because that just might inflame the situation.

Or at least this is what you fellers were saying IRT the riots in PDX. I don't know why you would have treated this any different.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-13 10:07 PM | Reply

Bottom line what you're arguing for is an uneven application of the law, based on your own internal biases.

I've never made that argument.

And all you did was make a lame attempt at turning my argument back on me.

You're still whatabouting an attempted coup.

Inspired by the POTUS.

So again, stop with the --------.

#20 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-13 10:08 PM | Reply

"You're still whatabouting an attempted coup."

So, let's stop right here.

It wasn't a coup. It couldn't have been a coup.

It would have been a coup if the military or some other state entity had attempted to replace the existing government. In this case the military is solidly behind the constitutional government, as illustrated in the recent memo from the CJCS that was signed by each of the Service Secretaries, as well each of the Service Chiefs. Linked below in case you have not seen it.

www.huffpost.com

The difference between you and I is you've not taken any oath. You can still act upon whatever sense of loyalty you may or may not have. Military officers take an oath to the constitution. That's it. Not a person. Not a party. Not an idea. You may think that Trump is the greatest president to have ever walked the earth, but if you're a military officer, and you storm the Capitol building. You're a traitor. Period.

So, it wasn't a coup. It was an insurrection. Calling it a coup just sounds stupid.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-13 10:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So, it wasn't a coup. It was an insurrection.

Fair point. And Lewzer got impeached for inciting it today.

All good.

#22 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-01-13 10:40 PM | Reply

#18 |

And between us girls, if there were to be problems, it's probably just antifa members dressed in MAGA hats.

POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2021-01-05 10:46 PM |

No one here is confused about you... you are transparent, really.

Myths, whataboutisms, outright lies.... obviously all you have.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-14 01:00 AM | Reply

So, let's stop right here.
It wasn't a coup. It couldn't have been a coup.
It would have been a coup if the military or some other state entity had attempted to replace the existing government.

A sitting POTUS attempting to remain in power via insurrection?

How is that not a coup?

The difference between you and I...

Not sure how any of that is relevant although I will say you playing that card was predictable.

#24 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-14 10:02 AM | Reply

So, it wasn't a coup. It was an insurrection. Calling it a coup just sounds stupid.
#21 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Coup just means a strike or blow.
The full term coup d'etat means a blow to the state.
And it was definitely that.
The insurgents disrupted government function for several hours.
The insurgents intended to prevent the transition of government to new leadership.
A few people were killed in the hostilities.

It was a coup.
It was a coup attempt.
It just wasn't a successful coup attempt.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-14 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"No one here is confused about you... you are transparent, really. Myths, whataboutisms, outright lies.... obviously all you have."

So...maybe I confused you.

What I expected to hear from the right is that it was Antifa dressed in MAGA kit that had attacked the Capitol. Turns out that Trump hisself tried to make this argument, even though there is no way a rational person could have ever thought that the masses who attacked the Capitol were antifa.

But this was to be expected, since many on the left were making a similar claim over the summer, that it was right-wing protesters dressed in Antifa kit that were causing trouble across the nation.

#26 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 05:15 PM | Reply

"A sitting POTUS attempting to remain in power via insurrection?"

You can try and make that stick as a legal argument...but I don't think you'll get anywhere.

What happened last week at the Capitol was irrelevant to whether or not Donald Trump stayed in office. The rioters could have killed every last congressperson in the building, and it would have done nothing to change the fact that at 1201pm on 20 January, he is no longer the president.

In fact, I would submit that a better example of a coup is his intent to pressure elected and appointed officials into fudging the numbers on the votes in order to hand him a win. Reference Georgia. That would be a better example. The best example would be that Trump orders the military to arrest members of the house and senate, and declares that the constitution has been dissolved. But there was zero chance of that happening here. In fact I think it would be more likely that the coup would be similar to what occurred in the Chile in 1973, when the military engaged in a coup to remove the sitting president, after the Supreme Court and the Chamber of Deputies called on them to do so. In this case, the president being removed would be Trump instead of Allende.

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 05:24 PM | Reply

"It just wasn't a successful coup attempt."

It wasn't possible for it to be successful. There is nothing that I'm aware of that the rioters could have done that would have changed the fact that at 1201 next Wednesday, Trump is no longer president. Period. They could have killed everyone in the building and that would not have changed.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 05:26 PM | Reply

Well, that may or not be true de facto. ------- could have declared martial law, Pence could have decided to not accept certain states' electoral votes, without an official count ------- would have argued that Biden couldn't be inaugurated, lots of uncharted territory there.

SOOOOOOO....

Also, their ability to be successful is irrelevant to their intent.

#29 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-01-14 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But this was to be expected, since many on the left were making a similar claim over the summer, that it was right-wing protesters dressed in Antifa kit that were causing trouble across the nation.

#26 | Posted by madbomber

Well the actual police made similar claims on that topic... They even I'd at least one known White Supremacist for inciting looting. MPRNews I believe there were other instances as well but I don't recall the particulars off hand.

#30 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-01-14 06:09 PM | Reply

#27 | Posted by madbomber

Don't be so sure about that claim. What you are saying is legally true, however insurrection isn't exactly "legal" is it?

#31 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-01-14 06:10 PM | Reply

- it's probably just antifa members dressed in MAGA hats.

- What I expected to hear from the right is that it was Antifa dressed in MAGA kit that had attacked the Capitol.

Yeah, right. NOW it's what you expected to hear from the right, then it was what you expected to hear.... as you didn't mention the right.

- since many on the left were making a similar claim over the summer

Because it was true then, just as it was true this time; PBs admitting already that they didn't wear their black and yellow to the Trump Riot, but purposely, yet again, their antifa black.

Really shouldn't have to say it again, especially after this white supremacist riot, but people who post here more concerned about Antifa like Captain America, than they are about actual Nazis... have already shown their true colors.

#32 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-14 06:33 PM | Reply

"Well, that may or not be true de facto. ------- could have declared martial law, Pence could have decided to not accept certain states' electoral votes, without an official count ------- would have argued that Biden couldn't be inaugurated, lots of uncharted territory there."

Certainly, but what's very certain is that there was no path for Trump to legally remain as president after 20 January. If there was a determination that a re-vote needed to occur, then Pelosi becomes the acting president at the conclusion of Trump's elected term.

Any other outcome would have been an actual coup.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 07:30 PM | Reply

"Also, their ability to be successful is irrelevant to their intent."

But it matters who they are.

Think of ISIS. I'm not trying to compare the rioters in DC to ISIS, but both seek/sought to overthrow existing or soon to exist governments. ISIS is an insurrection. Coup's occur internal to governments.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 07:33 PM | Reply

"Well the actual police made similar claims on that topic"

And it's totally within the realm of possibility. Likely even. But you can't make an honest argument that the vast majority of hammer and sickle wearing antifa rioters were actually right-wingers in disguise.

And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Right or left wing, you penetrate and map out those organizations. That will inevitably reveal who they are, as well as provide a mechanism for dismantling the network if need be.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 07:36 PM | Reply

Coup's occur internal to governments.
#34 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I see what you are sayig.
But let me suggest an example of behavior that meets that definition is when the Capitol Police allowed the insurrectionists into the Capitol.
Other examples include the Pentagon denying requests for the National Guard, etc.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-14 08:49 PM | Reply

Anyway.
There's not much point in debating whether it was a clip or a magazine.
It was clearly an attempt to maintain Trump as President. That's what makes it an insurrection. If you require inside help for it to be a coup attempt, well it had that too.

Perhaps a better term for the conspirators and co-conspirators would be a cabal.
Had it worked, we'd have a junta running things right now!

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-14 08:55 PM | Reply

At least one left-wing activist has been arrested and charged in the DC riots. Apparently it's the guy who recorded the girl getting shot.

www.foxnews.com

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-14 09:06 PM | Reply

At least one left-wing activist has been arrested and charged in the DC riots. Apparently it's the guy who recorded the girl getting shot.

Good. He faces federal charges of civil disorder, entering a restricted building and violent entry or disorderly conduct. Same as the rest of them.

#39 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-01-14 09:11 PM | Reply

1 left wing activist arrested, 99 right wing -------- arrested.

Clearly a Left Wing Insurrection!

-AltTruthers

#40 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-01-14 09:17 PM | Reply

MB appears to be a member of Y'all Qaeda.

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-14 10:33 PM | Reply

They can't even pump their own gasoline.

#42 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-16 09:10 AM | Reply

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