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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, January 16, 2021

Christian textbooks used in thousands of schools around the country teach that President Barack Obama helped spur destructive Black Lives Matter protests, that the Democrats' choice of 2016 nominee Hillary Clinton reflected their focus on identity politics, and that President Donald Trump is the "fighter" Republicans want, a HuffPost analysis has found.

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What? Christian academies are raising racist Fascists? We've know that since the 1960s. It's all part of the Republican cult. They don't teach children, they indoctrinate children. Those few who resist and shunned by both friends and family.

#1 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-16 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I can only imagine life seems more black and white when G-d is on your side.

And against the other side, for that matter.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Theocracy was never a part of Jesus' teachings. Hypocrites, however, have been around forever.

Believe it or not, there are even some among atheists.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 04:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Meanwhile Rightwing rhetards freak out that public education teaches evolution.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-01-16 05:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." 1 John 4:20

Thus, The Bible teaches us that to avoid hypocrisy, we must hate them both!

It's a joke, Corky. There's very little Jesus said that I really have a problem with. Feel free to find those coals and rake me over them if it pleases you.

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 05:05 PM | Reply

#5

Sounds like fun, but it's more fun to watch either the Rams or GB lose.

Both would be nice.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 05:27 PM | Reply

Of course, when righties complain that evil libruls are "indoctrinated" students they're projecting.

As they do with everything else.

#7 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-16 05:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden should ban public funding for Jesus and other Madrassas.

#8 | Posted by bored at 2021-01-16 08:31 PM | Reply

Theocracy was never a part of Jesus' teachings

Until the great experiment of the new world, theocracy was all there was. Religion held a total monopoly on political violence. You show me a government before 1776, I'll show you a theocracy.

You claim Jesus had nothing to say on the subject. Odd. We can get into why you are wrong about that if you want, but I'm more interested in why you think this thread is a good time to bring up the plainly obvious fact that atheists are hypocrites.

Is it simply the whataboutism you constantly accuse others of? There is a word for that, it's on the tip of my tongue...

#9 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-16 08:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

'Murican madrassas.

#10 | Posted by SunTzuMeow at 2021-01-16 09:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lobotomized by diseducation and disinformation

#11 | Posted by hamburglar at 2021-01-16 09:22 PM | Reply

#9 |

Well, spit it out, boy, don't be shy.

The Roman Empire, for just one example of many or most, had a religious hierarchy, but it was not the supreme power of the state. Surely you can think of other examples, oh, say like the US, now or since 1776.

This might be a good time to note that the leading advocates of abolition were liberal Christians, both here and in Europe, as an example of what they were up to when the hypocrites among them weren't supporting the moneyed elite like they are now.

Political violence, historically, is about the wealthy elite advancing their own concerns for money, resources, land, and power, with religion often as as excuse.... just like it is now.

My friend Snoofy's comment inferred both religious and non-religious with "if God is on your side", also referencing the side God might not be on. And he's perfectly capable of responding appropriately, which he did, with no help at all.

I have called BS, er, I mean whataboutism as a logical fallacy when it is done every time on every thread on a particular subject by a particular poster, like MB with But Antifa! on a white supremacist thread, or Sentinel with But Swastikas! on... hey, also on a white supremist thread... which isn't the same thing as mentioning it here.

= We can get into why you are wrong

Did you want to get into that in the original koin Greek and Aramaic, or in an 500 year old English translation?

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 09:27 PM | Reply

koine ... my e stuck

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 09:29 PM | Reply

- Until the great experiment of the new world, theocracy was all there was.

You might want to consult your dictionary...

examples.yourdictionary.com

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 09:37 PM | Reply

spit it out, boy,... original koin Greek

Same ole dorky, same ole 'arguments'

leading advocates of abolition were liberal Christians
What was the denomination of the advocates for slavery? What was the principle argument used by those advocates? From where did those argument arise?

have called BS, er, I mean whataboutism as a logical fallacy when...

Ah, so this isn't whataboutism, glad you cleared that up. So, if you aren't playing whataboutism like those other halfwits -not you of course, enlightened polyglot of dead dilects Jesus never even heard, much less spoke, that you are-- why bring up atheist on this thread?

You might want to consult your dictionary...

You might want to read your own links and make sure they say what you think they do.

#15 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-16 09:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

There is a word for that, it's on the tip of my tongue...

#9 | POSTED BY BLUSKY

Rut roh! You done it now. You done touched Corky's Jesus button.

You in a heap o trouble now blusky.

"The Roman Empire, for just one example of many or most, had a religious hierarchy, but it was not the supreme power of the state."

The imperial cult

Another element in the Roman state religion was what is generally referred to as the imperial cult. This cult regarded emperors and members of their families as gods.

On his death, Julius Caesar was officially recognised as a god, the Divine ('Divus') Julius, by the Roman state. And in 29 BC Caesar's adopted son, the first Roman emperor Augustus, allowed the culturally Greek cities of Asia Minor to set up temples to him.

www.bbc.co.uk

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-01-16 09:55 PM | Reply

#15 |

Ah... characterization in lieu of argument. Is that you, Laura?

- dead dilects Jesus never even heard (dialects, one assumes)

Jesus spoke Aramaic in everyday life. Ask any scholar. He also read and spoke Hebrew from scripture. Luke, who wrote most of the Gospels, and Paul who wrote most of the rest of the NT, used the common Greek.

#16

And Donnie jumps in about how all the Roman Emperors really thought they were Gods and weren't just playing to the common people; using religion to further their personal and political goals. You also might want to consult a scholar or three.

#17 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 10:07 PM | Reply

It's surprising not to have yet seen a school named "Christ On A Cross Academy"

#18 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-01-16 10:20 PM | Reply

The Imperial cult still applies today to a large sector of the USA .Franklin Graham and 1001 other preachers says its Gods will that Trump won.The industry of God assured me that Trumps victory was Gods will manifested through the electorate.Joe Biden's win is now a punishment from God according to some "Now we are owned and ruled by Chinese commies all because this nation would not repent of her sins."www.rawstory.com
There are not many people elected that deny God in America .

#19 | Posted by Scotty at 2021-01-16 10:22 PM | Reply

#19

Theocracy was never a part of Jesus' teachings. Hypocrites, however, have been around forever. (see #3)

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 10:27 PM | Reply

"Theocracy was never a part of Jesus' teachings."

It wasn't a part in much the same way air didn't get much discussion in Shakespeare's works, as its existence was simply taken for granted.

He talks about a Kingdom of Heaven because that's the type of government people had at the time. Kingdoms. King David had one, for example.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 10:32 PM | Reply

This is not to imply Jesus actually endorsed theocracy. No more than giving advice to a slave endorses slavery, anyway.

Even thinking about Jesus this way misses the point. But, you know, sometimes that's what you gotta do. Like when you want to convince yourself The Bible is against abortion.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 10:34 PM | Reply

#22

The church, with people in charge, was never meant to be a theocracy, you are correct.

And again correct that it wasn't supposed to be the series of supposed rules that people have made it. My pastor was talking about her gay friends from the pulpit the other day. She's much more pissed off with her Catholic friends, lol.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 10:38 PM | Reply

The existence of gay Catholics is one of those things that either makes you appreciate faith more or hate it more.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 10:40 PM | Reply

And since the choice is yours?
Your choice really just reflects who you are as a person.

That thing about the two wolves inside you is is true.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-16 10:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#24

It makes me appreciate the breaks we get.

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 10:41 PM | Reply

- the two wolves

That's about my favorite Native American story... it's basically the new testament in less than 100 words.

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 10:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

had a religious hierarchy, but it was not the supreme power of the state

The Supreme Power Of The State. OoooooOooo
What does that even mean.
Typical bad faith nonsense from someone that doesn't have an argument and knows he doesn't have an argument.

Like when he says he'll discuss Jesus in the "original" Greek. Then pivots to some drivel about Paul. Same Paul that never met Jesus, and in an epileptic fit "talks to god" then immediately sets out to form.......wait for it.........a Theocracy.

Calls me "boy" and brings up slavery out of no where. (no underlining racist tones there)
Lame.

All societies with very very very rare exceptions like the Comanche who didnt have anything like a government, were organized around religion. The power of The State to kill you or make war on you came from its association with, devotion to, accommodation from, that society's deity(s). Sometimes those societies stop killing the people of the other religions in their expanding borders long enough to become an Empire. This isn't controversial.

Go learn cuneiform and khipu, knock yourself out, no one cares. At some point all those rusty books will repeat some form of:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

God controls everything. God picks the leaders. Atheists are hypocrites.

#28 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-16 10:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Goddam hijackers...

#29 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-01-16 11:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Atheists are hypocrites.

More like snowflakes, really. Bring them up and they get all verklempt.

- What does that even mean.

It means the real power of the state; was it "the Gods" that ruled Rome, or the men who said they were related to Gods and went about their bidness making a profit. Scholars, unlike yourself, say it was the latter.

- Paul that never met Jesus

Ah, Ray is back from the dead!

- Let every person be subject to the governing authorities.

As is apparent from the original in context is that Paul, and John, didn't want Christians to live in rebellion and lawlessness even when there were evil governments.

www.bibleref.com

Jesus' followers when he was alive to protect them, lived communally; they sold everything and lived together in defiance of Rome. Jesus' rema, meaning saying, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's" was a radical, rebellious saying at the time; one of the things that got him killed.

At the time, in that place, a Roman territory, every person and every thing they owned belonged to Caesar. To say that some things belonged to God, not Caesar, was not allowed.

After he dies, Paul, who was a student of Gamaliel, taught the new Christians to live within their various nations, not apart.
Gamaliel
en.wikipedia.org

Sorry, but really, you sound to me like what Franklin Graham sounds like to you and me... a real know-nothing.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 11:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"But Paul Never Met Jesus" And Other Bad Arguments About Paul On The Internet"

chab123.wordpress.com

Oh, and here's a version of the Native American story Snoofy mentioned.

www.nanticokeindians.org

I do so like being helpful... lol.

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 11:33 PM | Reply

apparent from the original in context
Your own link says Paul wrote it to his people who were illegally spreading christiany in Rome. He wanted them to keep their head down so Nero wouldn't feed them to lions and such. IMHO Nero really let us all down there.
So Paul is telling his people to break the law whilst simultaneously telling them to preach that other people shouldn't break the law.
There is a word for that, its on the tip of my tongue....

It means the real power of the state; was it "the Gods" that ruled Rome, or the men who said they were related to Gods and went about their bidness making a profit. Scholars, unlike yourself, say it was the latter.
More bad faith argument. Of course it wasn't Zeus. There is no difference between a ruler appointed by god and one who says he is appointed by god if people are willing to believe god appoints leaders.

As the article points out without mentioning atheists: If you get them when they are young, before they can reason for themselves, you can make them believe anything.

Corky is a perfect example. You can take an otherwise productive, (relatively) intelligent person and get them to die on a hill of the most outlandish, incoherent, destructive nonsense.

#32 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-17 12:03 AM | Reply

- So Paul is telling his people to break the law whilst simultaneously telling them to preach that other people shouldn't break the law.

So much misunderstanding would appear to be intentional.

- Nero really let us all down there.

Proof that it's intentional.

- There is no difference between a ruler appointed by god and one who says he is appointed by god if people are willing to believe god appoints leaders.

Duh... yeah there is. The first is an actual theocracy, the second is playing at theocracy... like Mao.

- As the article points out

As I pointed out, the article is about the same kind of hypocrites Jesus encountered and condemned in his day.

- outlandish, incoherent, destructive nonsense.

You start with a premise, and all your so-called arguments are just to confirm that bias.

Here, I'll let a couple of atheists and an agnostic tell you how badly that sucks:

"Ultimately, the problem with militant neo-atheism is that it represents a profound category error. Explaining religion - or, indeed, the human experience - in scientific terms is futile.

"It would be as bizarre as to launch a scientific investigation into the truth of Anna Karenina or love," de Botton says.

"It's a symptom of the misplaced confidence of science . . . It's a kind of category error. It's a fatally wrong question and the more you ask it, the more you come up with bizarre and odd answers."

www.newstatesman.com

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-17 12:21 AM | Reply

here's a version of the Native American story Snoofy mentioned

Thanks Corky! Thats so cool. If only that story were not in about two dozen movies and 438 books we would have never known! I cant believe Snoof just blew right by it without feeling the need to give every detail--as if this is common knowledge.

Bad Arguments About Paul

You said you want to talk about what Jesus might or might not have said about theocracy. Not just talk about it, but do so in the "original" greek. This is a common ploy. You've done it many many times over the years. For you the only thing your particular sect is responsible for are "good" outcomes (things you agree with) like abolition and things specifically said by Jesus himself in Aramaic. Everything else, all the genocide, infanticide, racism, sexism...all that is off the table.
Fine.
I'm willing to play the game.
Just Jesus.

So then you come back with some -------- about Paul.
Then claim I'm the one with bad arguments about Paul.

This is what you do. You do it because it is all you can do.


#34 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-17 12:24 AM | Reply

#34

See #33.

Also, you are babbling now... OK, you were babbling before, just not as prolifically.

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-17 12:27 AM | Reply

Sorry, but really, you sound to me like what Franklin Graham sounds like to you and me... a real know-nothing.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-16 11:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

How dare you question the wisdom of almighty righteous seed of The Reverend Billy Graham.The man had huge crowds,the biggest.Did you ever fill Wembley Stadium? No you did not. Could Paul speaking in tongues bring in the viewers and cash like Paula White, spiritual advisor to the president.No he couldn't.Be careful Your jealousy of Mr Graham feeds the jealous wolf.

#36 | Posted by Scotty at 2021-01-17 12:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

So much misunderstanding would appear to be intentional.
Dude, it's your link!

The first is an actual theocracy, the second is playing at theocracy
A distinction without a difference unless you actually believe that god comes down from heaven and chooses leaders and only those cases are a theocracy.

You are of course free to believe that but I don't think you are that far over the bend. Are you?

#37 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-17 12:51 AM | Reply

I myself find it difficult to take a scholarly definitive position on a topic that outside of a few old roman records the base of knowledge is hearsay documented 40 -140 years after the events allegedly occurred.

#38 | Posted by Scotty at 2021-01-17 01:30 AM | Reply

No one posting here even really knows if Jesus actually existed much less what he spoke about or taught. Religion is a business that teaches the ruling class that they are virtuous. It never requires them to actually question the political and financial decisions they make which affect millions of people. I live my life entirely content being agnostic, sometimes I want the comfort of a God I can ask for help but most of the time I understand that there is no God and I deal with the future alone. Then I realize I am strong enough to do it alone. But still, once in a while, I still want to believe but it is temporary.

#39 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-17 08:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

More like snowflakes, really. Bring them up and they get all verklempt.

Says the guy who turns every discussion about Jeebus into a C&P fest about atheism.

#40 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-17 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Blusky is slapping the s&$# out of Corky. Lol

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-17 11:25 AM | Reply

It's an interesting conversation though.

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-17 12:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It's an interesting conversation though."

Jesus Fuggin' Christ...

NO...it isn't.

It's off-topic BS that's that been trashed out here on the drudge hundreds of times before.

Childish and idiotic, signifying nothing but stupidity.

#43 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-01-17 01:41 PM | Reply

Just curious, are you still gonna be Angry if Trump actually leaves office? ;)

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-17 01:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- No one posting here even really knows if Jesus actually existed much less what he spoke about or taught

Here, maybe, lol. But among scholars of history it's not even a question.

en.wikipedia.org

#41

It's always nice to have J Pw'd as an unbiased reporter.

- outside of a few old roman records the base of knowledge is hearsay documented 40 -140 years after the events allegedly occurred.

Not so much...

coldcasechristianity.com

#45 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-17 08:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Thirty years ago I was managing a laboratory and would occasionally need an assistant to help me get a project done. I would go out into the warehouse and check things out. One guy stood out like a sore thumb. I asked him if he was raised Assembly of God. He said, "Yeah, how'd you know?" I told him "I didn't know, but just had an intuition you were because I was, too." He was working his ass of tossing boxes and out-working every other employee there.

So, I got him out of the heat and stress of the warehouse and hired him into the lab. He said he went to Assembly of God schools all his life and didn't even take biology or physical science or algebra. I told him not to worry, I'd teach him. After 4 years he was able to do rudimentary calculus. Which came in handy, because he was a Business major which required Business Calculus to get his BBA.

I was dumbfounded that a supposedly accredited school in Texas would allow someone to graduate high school without any basic science or math beyond long division in 5th grade.

Another coincidence is that we were both in the Army Reserve in our earlier lives. And both of were musicians and he would come over and jam and drink vodka until the wee hours of the night. We assumed music was something you could do in your room practically locked-up in high school.

He's still my best friend even though he moved to Washington/Oregon and got married to his Jr High School sweetheart. We talk and text all the time, but it's not like being in person. I'm glad to know him and glad he got an education in science and math finalaly. Since I was more than willing to download everything I'd learned as a chemist, and he was willing to absorb it.

There's an aphorism by Nietzsche that goes: "One person seeks a midwife for his thoughts; the other, someone he can assist. Here is the origin of a good conversation."

#46 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-17 10:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No one posting here even really knows if Jesus actually existed

Or Socrates. Even for people like Alexander, who definitely existed, there is hardly any contemporaneous evidence to prove it. His speech during the Opis mutiny is said to be the greatest piece of oratory ever. No one wrote down a word of it.

It doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not. Or Socrates. Someone said those things and someone else wrote it down. The question is what to we do with it because some of it, much of it, is not good by any measure.
Scapegoating. Vicarious redemption. Think not for the 'morrow. Love thy enemy. Offer your coat to a thief....
These arent axioms. It is an how-to guide if your intent is to destroy civilization.

#47 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-01-17 11:23 PM | Reply

When you raise your kids to accept things on faith and ignore evidence, you end up raising morons who could hear trump talk and think "yeah this guy seems like he'd be a good president."

Without morons being pre-brainwashed by christianity, repubs would have a hard time finding anyone gullible enough to vote for them.

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-01-18 12:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Vicarious redemption. Think not for the 'morrow. Love thy enemy. Offer your coat to a thief....
These arent axioms. It is an how-to guide if your intent is to destroy civilization.

#47 | Posted by BluSky

No that's what you sell to people if you want them to accept oppression in this life - tell them they'll be awarded in the next life.

#49 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-01-18 12:58 PM | Reply

The prepubescence is strong in these ones, as is the fear of those things their biases don't confirm.

And the broad brush strokes confirm it, as does the selective editing.

#50 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-18 02:32 PM | Reply

Funny how anybody who doesn't agree with Corky is automatically "prepubescent" or biased.

Equally funny is that he's completely unaware of his own bias in being pot committed to a glorified cult.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 02:54 PM | Reply

Not automatically, earned via asinine posts.

- a glorified cult.

The fear and defensiveness just drips off of you, in characterization rather than argument.

But one supposes that "Love one another" and Love your neighbor as your self" could be seen as a horrible philosophy.

Perhaps I should assign to you all the deaths over the last century or so from atheist leaders like Mao, Pol Pot, or Stalin?

Naw, that would be stupid.

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-18 03:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The fear and defensiveness just drips off of you, in characterization rather than argument.

Fear and defensiveness. LOL

Of what?

Sorry you've spent your life justifying your belief in a cult, but thems the facts.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 03:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Perhaps I should assign to you all the deaths over the last century or so from atheist leaders like Mao, Pol Pot, or Stalin?

Naw, that would be stupid.

I didn't do that.

So nice projection of a strawman.

LOL

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 03:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- a cult

Still with the ad hominen. Guess that's what logical fallacies are for; when you have no real argument.

One could claim that the atheists and their leaders I mentioned above belong to a cult.

But that would also be stupid.

#55 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-18 03:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

What I said wasn't ad hominem.

You're reaching, probably because you don't have a decent argument against it being a glorified cult. The only reason it seems not so is it's been a successful cult for a long time.

And no surprise you pull the canned atheist nonsense. LOL

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 03:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But one supposes that "Love one another" and Love your neighbor as your self" could be seen as a horrible philosophy."

^
Jerry Falwell managed to make it a horrible philosophy.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-18 03:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump is so sick in the head"
He's not.
He's a reality TV star.

POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So he's auditioning for The Biggest Loser. You could be onto something.

#58 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2021-01-18 04:12 PM | Reply

i dont evn need to read passed the hl.
i come va beach.
i 1000% agree. i have known MANY of these brainswashed into kookdom, poor kids, stupid, angry, violent, parent(s)..

#59 | Posted by ichiro at 2021-01-18 04:45 PM | Reply

#50 | Posted by Corky

For God's sake, man...just STFU.

You're not helping.

#60 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-01-18 04:53 PM | Reply

- I didn't do that.

You continue to assign me to what you call a cult. You did do that.

I could do the same, but I'm not quite that stupid.

And I'm not even one of the rwing "christians" the article is about. Like you aren't one of Mao's or Stalin's atheist followers.... oh, wait, maybe you are!

You continue with your broad brush name calling. It says more about you than about me.

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-18 04:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#60

Don't be Dad, Angry.

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-18 04:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's off-topic BS that's that been trashed out here on the drudge hundreds of times before.
Childish and idiotic, signifying nothing but stupidity.

#43 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

So what if it's off-topic?

and I don't know why you are so hostile about it. Perhaps you have a strong opinion one way or the other and I don't care either way.

It's interesting to me to see posters who otherwise are on the same side on most issues debate on one they aren't.

I enjoy the debate. You don't, apparently.

Fine...

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 04:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-You continue to assign me to what you call a cult.

I sympathize with you on this, Corky.

The term "cult" is being tossed at people for no other purpose than to antagonize. Not because they really believe it.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 04:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#61 | Posted by Corky

Zed cut this crap out years ago because he figured out that it was pointless and unproductive.

You need to do the same.

#65 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-01-18 04:59 PM | Reply

-Zed cut this crap out years ago because he figured out that it was pointless and unproductive.

Yes, and we all see Zed as someone who doesn't go in for pointless and unproductive like when he compared Mitt Romney to a bucket of spiders or any other of this hundreds of ridiculous comparisons and analogies.

Maybe Zed cut it out because he has no principles.

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 05:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"but I'm more interested in why you think this thread is a good time to bring up the plainly obvious fact that atheists are hypocrites."

religious bothsiderism.

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 05:04 PM | Reply

"Maybe Zed cut it out because he has no principles."

Yeah, whatever.

Zed's principals make yours look like horse manure.

#68 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-01-18 05:05 PM | Reply

The problem with religion is it breeds ignorance and hate. It causes people to stop thinking

Yes. I realize that's a generalization and there are examples where religion has helped people.

But that's by far outweighed by the death, destruction, physical and mental abuse that's caused by religious conservatives and dogmatic ideology.

Look at what religion has done to the Middle East. Or medieval Europe. Or Red America.

Thank you for reading my ClownTalk.

#69 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-01-18 05:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#68 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD AT 2021-01-18 05:05 PM | FLAG: really really clever....no, really.....it is.

#70 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 05:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Cult
noun

1) a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

2) a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.

3) a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.


The term cult is appropriate when used to describe religious adherents or Trump supporters.

Is what it is.

#71 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-01-18 05:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If trump's cult members were born in iraq they'd have all been ISIS muslim extremists. They're only christian because of where they were born, but the hate, ignorance, anger, cult devotion, and aggression are the exact same.

#72 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-01-18 05:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Yes, and we all see Zed as someone who doesn't go in for pointless and unproductive like when he compared Mitt Romney to a bucket of spiders

#66 | POSTED BY EBERLY A

Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential campaign was exceptionally dishonest. Yes, I've seen him do some useful things. But I think that at bottom he's still the spoiled kid who didn't mind using his family's power to evade Vietnam.

Know what I think? The perfect conservative nominee for President died in Vietnam because Mitt was not there to save him.

#73 | Posted by Zed at 2021-01-18 06:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#71
It's not a cult unless they threaten you if you try to leave.
Which means the GOP has turned into a Trump Cult.

The small minority of Republicans who don't like Trump... are afraid to leave the GOP.
Exhibit A: Everybody here knows who Exhibit A is.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-18 06:31 PM | Reply

" Goddam hijackers..."
#29 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

Newsworthy. It's the most tired meme on the retort.

#75 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2021-01-18 07:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The term "cult" is being tossed at people for no other purpose than to antagonize. Not because they really believe it.

#64 | Posted by eberly

Actually, it's because it's an accurate term.

The only difference between Christianity and thousands of other cults is Christianity had some staying power and a large following.

Otherwise it's still unproveable bronze age goat herder myths with centuries of people trying to prop it up with contrived evidence to fit their preformed conclusions.

#76 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 07:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You continue to assign me to what you call a cult. You did do that.

I didn't assign to you all of the deaths and violence Christians have wrought over the years.

You did that with atheists.

So again, I didn't do that.

#77 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 07:33 PM | Reply

"Actually, it's because it's an accurate term."

to describe who?

corky? well, you did that so let's go back to the definition of the term and apply it to him.

devotion to a particular object? no, of course not.
regarded as sinister or strange (relative to other religions?) well, of course not...you're calling any religion a cult. you aren't bothering to discriminate at all.
misplaced or excessing admiration?

I kid corky over his devotion to Hillary Clinton...but I don't think he really is that nuts about her.

Throwing that term out is lazy.

Which is fine..keep doing it. You, and speakstupid can use it all you want.

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 07:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

to describe who?

corky?

No, -------.

Christianity.

This isn't a very hard thread to follow so please try a little harder, ok?

#79 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 07:53 PM | Reply

79

nope. I'd rather bother you....but I'll stop. I have better things to do.

#80 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-18 08:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I would hope so.

#81 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-18 08:14 PM | Reply

Throwing that term out is lazy.

Which is fine..keep doing it. You, and speakstupid can use it all you want.

#78 | Posted by eberly

It's lazy if you throw it everywhere it doesn't apply.

Trump and his followers fit the definition of the word CULT exactly and precisely. Should we not use the word because it's embarassing for the fence sitters? Is it hard to play BOTH SIDES ARE BAD when one of them fits every trait of a cult?

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-01-18 08:28 PM | Reply

The only difference between Christianity and thousands of other cults is Christianity had some staying power and a large following.
Otherwise it's still unproveable bronze age goat herder myths with centuries of people trying to prop it up with contrived evidence to fit their preformed conclusions.
#76 | POSTED BY JPW

There's actually many differences and similarities, but whatever.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-19 02:07 AM | Reply

Uh huh.

What others?

#84 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 09:10 AM | Reply

84

I believe (it's just that....a belief) that many here disagree with you that normally fall on the same side of the issues with you.

So they'll either politely point out their disagreement, such as snoofy in 83, or less politely like Corky.

But many do disagree......but aren't going to say anything.

"Otherwise it's still unproveable bronze age goat herder myths with centuries of people trying to prop it up with contrived evidence to fit their preformed conclusions."

Do you have a realization of how much you are insulting people?

#85 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-19 12:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's only somewhat surprising to see the same people making the same Category Errors over and over again.

SO, J PWhipped, did those lab results ever come back telling you whether or not your significant other really loves you?

I mean, since only science has the answer to every question and all.

Truth is that:

"Ultimately, the problem with militant neo-atheism is that it represents a profound category error. Explaining religion - or, indeed, the human experience - in scientific terms is futile.

"It would be as bizarre as to launch a scientific investigation into the truth of Anna Karenina or love," de Botton (an atheist) says.

"It's a symptom of the misplaced confidence of science . . . It's a kind of category error. It's a fatally wrong question and the more you ask it, the more you come up with bizarre and odd answers."

see link #33

I love science, it's great for a lot of things, but not everything. Most scientists know it's limits and don't think that it answers all questions. As a matter of fact, much of science is "accepted theory" as scientists understand that in many cases they have some evidence, and some proofs, but they don't have all the facts to move beyond calling something a theory or an accepted theory.

Then we have those who say that if we don't agree with their Category Error, then we belong to, "a cult".

There is plenty of evidence of order in what could have well been a universe of chaos... last year's Nobel Price Winner figured that the odds of that order occurring naturally to be as close to zero as one can get. Yet any theory of why that order exists, such as multiverses, string theory, or living in a computer simulation are better to some than the theory that order was created.

As much damage as fundamentalism has done to the credibility of religion or politics, say communism, socialism, or atheism, it does not negate the theories themselves.

I've been as hard or harder on fundamentalist "christians" than anyone here. Yet I get called a cultist for having beliefs that are different from some agnostics and or atheists. Should I start calling them, "Neo-Atheist cultists"?

That would be just as stupid as what they do.

#86 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-19 01:25 PM | Reply

Do you have a realization of how much you are insulting people?

#85 | POSTED BY EBERLY

So?

I'm tired of things prefaced with "I belive" being given undue respect. Religion included.

The anti-intellectual and pro-ignorance strain of thinking has grown out of control in this country, much of it driven by fanatical Chreestians putting religious cultism (it's not faith at the level they practice it) above all else, even evidence-based medicine.

I get that that is the extreme, but you have the GOP base of about 30% of the country that isn't far off from that.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 01:37 PM | Reply

SO, J PWhipped, did those lab results ever come back telling you whether or not your significant other really loves you?
I mean, since only science has the answer to every question and all.

LOL here comes the standard nonsense.

We have biochemical explanations for the sensations we term "love."

And religion doesn't really "answer" that either, nor much else it claims to answer.

see link #33

Yawn.

I'm not an atheist, no matter how hard you try to force the label so you can fall back on tired, old, lame arguments you C&P spam on every Jeebus thread.

Most scientists know

And then we move on to a lay person trying to explain how science works to a scientist. LOL this is getting better and better.

last year's Nobel Price Winner

Now an argument from authority to justify their "faith." It's faith, dude. Just say that and be OK with it. The stretches to justify faith (and make it not faith) with BS "scientific" arguments is what irks me.

Yet I get called a cultist for having beliefs that are different from some agnostics and or atheists. Should I start calling them, "Neo-Atheist cultists"?

If the word fits, go for it.

Religion is a cult. Not sure why that's such a controversial statement considering you'd likely agree for all but one religion.

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 01:43 PM | Reply

#88

Neo-Agnostic cultist.

One who is poorly educated in definitions:

How To Tell A Cult From A Religion?

"Ahead, we spoke with cult researcher and author Janja Lalich, Ph.D., professor emerita of sociology at California State University, Chico, about the key distinctions, explicit and implicit, between legitimate religions and cults."

www.refinery29.com

Odd for someone who claims to be a "scientist".

- BS "scientific" arguments is what irks me.

That one's religion is based on faith does not mean that there are not also practical proofs and evidences available. Such as the scholarly historicity of Jesus as just one example.

That a "scientist" is not bright enough to understand something so simple is... kind of scary, really.

#89 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-19 01:54 PM | Reply

More practical proofs and evidences

www.huffpost.com

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-19 01:59 PM | Reply

Neo-Agnostic cultist.

That's some weak sauce.

"Oh great thing we don't know for sure, we worship you!" LOL

between legitimate religions and cults.

Beyond arrogant to make such a claim. Probably because Janja is part of something he/she wants to be a "legitimate religion."

Odd for someone who claims to be a "scientist".

No need for quotes, sport. I am in fact a scientist. So spare me your lectures based on your scratch on the surface understanding of science. Thanks.

That one's religion is based on faith does not mean that there are not also practical proofs and evidences available.

Actually, it sort of belies the very definition of religious faith. But sure, stick with that line of contradictory thinking.

Such as the scholarly historicity of Jesus as just one example.

The fact that a man named Jesus existed means less than zero in regards to whether the claims in the New Testament are true, let alone those in the Old Testament.

That a "scientist" is not bright enough to understand something so simple is... kind of scary, really.

#89 | POSTED BY CORKY

LOL you're trying to be condescending again. Which means you know you're full of ----.

Double LOL considering what you're saying is laughably bad thinking that only a biased person trying to force their conclusions would posit with anything close to a straight face.

#91 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 02:04 PM | Reply

Yeah yeah you've posted that laughable link before.

#92 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 02:04 PM | Reply

- contradictory thinking

Would apparently be what you call "thinking".

You have faith in your significant other... you also have evidence and proofs of that faith.

You believe that your car will stop when you apply the brakes... it's happened so often that now you have faith that it will.
You also have the evidence that supports that faith with the brake job done last week.

Really, you've crossed the border of the ridiculous here.

- laughable link

No argument, just characterization.... wait, is that you, Laura?

#93 | Posted by Corky at 2021-01-19 02:15 PM | Reply

Would apparently be what you call "thinking".

You're correct, I should have put "thinking" in quotes.

You have faith in your significant other... you also have evidence and proofs of that faith.
You believe that your car will stop when you apply the brakes... it's happened so often that now you have faith that it will.
You also have the evidence that supports that faith with the brake job done last week.
Really, you've crossed the border of the ridiculous here.

No, you've crossed the border into what's known as equivocation.

It's a common fallacy used by religious people trying to argue against science. Look into creationism "science" or anti-evolution arguments and you'll see that every equivocation used constantly.

No argument, just characterization.... wait, is that you, Laura?
#93 | POSTED BY CORKY

What argument is there to make? That some vague similarities between your preferred creation myth and science makes your myth true?

But fine, lets try a few for ----- and giggles.

God said, Let there be firmament in the midst of the waters and let it separate the waters from the waters.'

Except they don't separate waters from the waters. The oceans are contiguous bodies of water. At one point, they were one single body of water and the continents were one single land mass. So...wrong. I love the attempt to say the passage describes liquid water and vapor. Probably pulled his back with that reach.

Genesis: (Third day)

A complete swing and a miss.

This is exactly what happened. Life began in the sea.

Yeah! Let's just ignore the fact that it's two "days" after the wrongfully asserted beginning of life on land!

And I'm done. It's all reaching and hammering known science pegs into preferred creation myth holes.

#94 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 03:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-I'm tired of things prefaced with "I belive" being given undue respect. Religion included.

I'm tired of things being misspelled. :-)

Seriously, I don't make religious arguments here. I don't defend deity nor do I attack or even remotely insult agnostics or atheists. My interest lies where you misuse the term "cult".

Are you making no distinction between a legitimate religion and a cult?

There is essentially no difference? They're all cults?

#95 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-19 03:26 PM | Reply

I'm tired of things being misspelled. :-)

HA!

My interest lies where you misuse the term "cult".
Are you making no distinction between a legitimate religion and a cult?

I think that that distinction is absurd.

The only difference between a religion and a cult is that religions are socially acceptable cults.

That's it.

There is essentially no difference? They're all cults?

To me? Yes.

My biggest pet peeve with religious people are when they refuse to simply say it's their faith. The smartest believer I've ever met would say that all the time ("Yeah, it doesn't make sense but that's what my faith believes/teaches/is") when we'd get into religious discussions. He didn't tie himself into logical knots trying to justify and support and claim there was "evidence."

It was those conversations that showed me what real, strong faith is and isn't. Most believers don't have strong faith, just strong beliefs.

#96 | Posted by jpw at 2021-01-19 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm not gonna bother but I bet you could count on one hand with fingers left over how many posts on this thread are on topic. Which is a shame because it's a. Important subject.

#97 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2021-01-19 03:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

96

I understand what you're saying.

#98 | Posted by eberly at 2021-01-19 04:11 PM | Reply

It's not a secret that people have been killing each other over various scripture interpretations since 33 AD (CE), and much before Christianity separated itself from Judaism.

#99 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-19 04:22 PM | Reply

I'm a scientist and a Christian and have learned to just say, "F--k it". There's no way to teach a man before he's ready to learn. I've tried to explain radioactive dating, plate tectonics, evolution, why various animals are found in certain strata that get more and more simplistic the deeper you dig, or can see in places like the grand canyon. It's no use. Jesus supposedly said:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

--Matt 10:34

If that's not prophetic I don't know what is. The Jefferson Bible is a good source for removing the hobgoblinry and ridiculous miricles from it to get to the meant of Jesus' teachings. And it's not what's being preached in American churches by a long shot.

American churches are run like a business, at least the Protestant ones I'm familiar with. And a good dose of God's wrath as modern-day indulgences, makes people dig deeper into their pockets.

#100 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-19 04:31 PM | Reply

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