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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, January 23, 2021

Rich-Joseph Facun is a photographer of indigenous Mexican and Filipino descent who grew up in Mississippi and Virginia and put down roots in Ohio after taking a job at Ohio University, where he studied visual communication. During his time there as a student, he lived in a "bubble," he explained over video.

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Who puts the onus on the recipient? I put the onus on the donor.

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-20 04:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Really? You've never accuse somebody of having white privilege?

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 02:51 PM | Reply

If you're white, you're privileged.

If you're white and not wealthy and successful, it's only because you squandered that privilege.

#3 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 04:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

We might find that Snoofy is the poster child of privilege.

#4 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 04:50 PM | Reply

Appalachia...

But the Green New Deal is gonna save them all.

#5 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 04:52 PM | Reply

"If you're white, you're privileged."

See?

Trying to place blame on people for the way they were born.

That's messed up.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 05:09 PM | Reply

Really? You've never accuse somebody of having white privilege?
#2 | POSTED BY TOR

Of course I have.
It's a privilege given to them by the cops, by judges, by our institutions.
You can't get a privilege... without someone first giving it to you.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 05:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And yet you describe it as "their" privilege which places the blame on someone who has done no wrong.

#8 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 05:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Trying to place blame on people for the way they were born."

White people are devils, dude. get woke.

And if you get bored, here is a link to a fine example of Appalachian white privilege. Watch the documentary. If only they had been born Crazy Rich Asians.

en.wikipedia.org

#9 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 05:32 PM | Reply

"It's a privilege given to them by the cops, by judges, by our institutions. You can't get a privilege... without someone first giving it to you."

And that was a privilege afforded to D. Ray White, his clan, and tens of thousands of other citizens of Appalachia?

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 05:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And yet you describe it as "their" privilege which places the blame on someone who has done no wrong.
#8 | POSTED BY TOR

I don't get it.
Why are you trying so hard to die on this hill?

Nothing wrong with calling it theirs.
If I give them a cookie, it's theirs now.
If cops give them a privilege, it's theirs now.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 05:38 PM | Reply

The Mountain Man and the Surgeon

online.sfsu.edu

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-21 05:39 PM | Reply

And that was a privilege afforded to D. Ray White, his clan, and tens of thousands of other citizens of Appalachia?
#10 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Beats me.
Also, "citizens of Appalachia" is, like, not how citizenship works.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 05:39 PM | Reply

Because language defines reality and white people deserve to have a good future same as everybody else.

#14 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 06:20 PM | Reply

"... white people deserve to have a good future same as everybody else."

Do they though?

#15 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2021-01-21 06:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"white people deserve to have a good future same as everybody else."

The sad reality is, they're unlikely to find that future in Appalachia.

I grew up in Appalachia. And I don't think I'd mind dying there. It's the in-between stuff that's lacking.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 06:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Do they though?"

Is it supposed to be a joke?

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 06:27 PM | Reply

Oh God snoof I had no idea.

I've seen photos of the tar paper Shack my grandmother grew up in.

I have an idea what life in Appalachia is like.

Here's hoping that Biden creates a new deal and drags Appalachia into the 21st century.

#18 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 06:29 PM | Reply

Ehhh... I was more in the foothills, as opposed to being deep in the mountains. Snapping turtles were our greatest fear, when skinny-dipping in the pond. Even greater than water moccasins.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 06:33 PM | Reply

Soofy I tried reading Hillbilly Eligy (sp) and had to stop after 5 pages because it was to close to home.

Have you tried reading it?

#20 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-21 06:50 PM | Reply

I have not. I'll check it out. Thanks.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 07:05 PM | Reply

"White privilege" is a -------- construct. It's like "toxic masculinity". Just buzzwords designed to elicit a certain response. Guilt,or defiance,or in my case, boredom at the cliche'.

White people are just the same as everyone else. They are not extra evil or anything else.

The idea of intrinsic differences that are defining,is racism, no matter the source,or victim.

Appalachian people are just rural poor,mostly white Scots-Irish. They are in a cul de sac of society. Life moved on while they remained in a backwater. The lowcountry blacks are a similar case. They don't get insulted nowadays, but they sure used to. It's still acceptable to talk ---- about poor whites,which is partly why we got Trump,in any case,just because they're white doesn't mean it's not racist to demean them.

#22 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-21 11:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"White privilege" is a -------- construct. It's like "toxic masculinity"

They're --------.
And they're constructs.
But they're very real.

Plenty of -------- constructs are real. Try being a man and wearing a pink dress if you don't believe it.

"White people are just the same as everyone else."

Nobody said otherwise.

"They are not extra evil or anything else."

Well, actually, someone did say something which could be interpreted, by people suffering from Hurt Feelings, to mean just that:

"The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion [ ... ] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do." www.goodreads.com

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 11:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Western man was an aggressive invasive force on the world. Imperialism is real,cultural chauvanism,and genocides, are real. None of it is uniquely
a Caucasian phenomenon. Western man is like all other cultures, except they went searching for weaker cultures they could exploit and strip resources from. This they were good at. Largely because of a market economy and better weapons of war.

I hate western overbearing dominance as much as the next guy. Still, it's not racial,it's just some -------- who happen to be white.

The blacks, Asians, everyone does it too. The whites are just more successful at it.

For now.

#24 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-21 11:30 PM | Reply

"Still, it's not racial,it's just some -------- who happen to be white."

The history of slavery in America tells a very different story.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-21 11:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So does the history of slavery everywhere. Not always by skin color, sometimes it's caste, sometimes it's religion,sometimes it's tribal,sometimes it's racial. It's always one group seeing another as weaker and more exploitable than they are. It's always a horrible crime,among the worst of all human crimes.

Somehow,the exploiters never seem to get the evil of it. It's like a bad boss on steroids,but you can't quit or even be fired.

They just use you up. Slowly,quickly,it doesn't matter. The slave is always expendible in the end. Especially if he's hired on in the open market and the jobs available are few and the need for work is great. Then the boss doesn't even need to worry about keeping the worker on if he's become even slightly inconvenient.

No much different in effect,but chattel slavery is a far greater evil than wage servitude.

Wage slaves can still quit or be fired if they refuse the conditions of their work.

#26 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-22 02:11 AM | Reply

Furthermore,the slave trade was largely owned and operated by Jews. Moslems enslaved Christian's,and other Moslem sects different from their own. Minorities in general were often enslaved historically.

None of this was exclusively racist,but it all kinda was.

New world slavery was racial in that slaves were purchased from slave dealers who captured them or purchased them from stretches of West Africa,still in a state of nature.

Old world slavery is not a market economy thing, like western hemisphere chattel slavery was. It's got a market aspect, but it's not like the slave auctions in the Americas.

#27 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-22 02:36 AM | Reply

"Western man was an aggressive invasive force on the world."

It would be more accurate to say that western man was the last aggressive force in the world. While the west was rolling around in it's own poo, the Muslims were taking over the much of the world, taking a lot of slaves in the process.

Rome is basically a monument to slavery. As is the Great Wall of China. And much, much more.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-22 03:16 AM | Reply

"The blacks, Asians, everyone does it too. The whites are just more successful at it."

Most cultures nowadays abhor slavery. Those that still tolerate it generally do so on religious or cultural grounds.

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-22 03:17 AM | Reply

You're all just a bunch of f-----g slaves.

--Jim Morrison

#30 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-22 04:33 AM | Reply

Old world slavery is not a market economy thing, like western hemisphere chattel slavery was.
#27 | POSTED BYEFFETEPOSER

You're completely white-washing the crucial distinction of racial slavery:

Racial slavery was justified because the enslaved race wasn't even human.

This is what makes American slavery so much worse than Roman times.

And this belief in racial superiority and inferiority still persists in America.

It's the basis for QAnon, for example, which is really just a rehash of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And it stormed The Capitol two weeks ago, and it carried the Confederate flag.

Conversations like this remind me why I made a point of not talking to you: Wheh given the chance, the narrative you advance is painfully offensive to hear.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-22 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I agree with you about chattel slavery. I was not thinking clearly maybe or just distracted,but you are correct about it being codified racism and worse than classical slavery in the old world. I thought I made that clear but see now that I did not. My apologies to you and anyone else offended by that.

I am not sure what you mean by the narrative I am advancing,I have no real narrative. I'm just muddling through trying to get things right,not always succeeding.

Again I do apologize,sincerely. Your point is correct as far as it goes.

#32 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-22 02:25 PM | Reply

If you're white and not wealthy and successful, it's only because you squandered that privilege.

#3 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I'd agree that white people have a far better chance at success. But some of them didn't do as well, simply because bad things happen in life. The best example may be that even a successful white person can be completely wiped out by a healthcare issue.

#33 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-01-22 05:33 PM | Reply

Just because there are white people living in areas with poverty doesn't mean that white people in wealthier areas don't have the advantage.

I know that white people in poor areas take offense to the concept of white privilege, which enforces their Trumpy belief system. But like many things, they don't understand the bigger picture.

#34 | Posted by horstngraben at 2021-01-22 05:53 PM | Reply

I live on an Indian reservation with natives and whites. A lot of communities are impacted by poverty, meth, alcoholism, run down trailers. Both whites and natives are affected. Lots of natives do very well. Lots of whites do very poorly. But whites are still generally better off, wealthier, healthier...

#35 | Posted by horstngraben at 2021-01-22 06:02 PM | Reply

Tell a poor man he's "privileged", and he won't buy what you're selling about anything else.

It's like going into Harlem and telling everyone to go get a good job, what's holding you all back? The level of trust and open dialogue is gone.

If Dems want to reach poor whites,and engage them,they need to lose the snooty attitude toward poor whites. It is a stink that can't be missed when they start talking about a privilege they most of the "privileged" don't seem to feel.

Correct or not it just pushes them toward someone who isn't shaming them about something they're not ashamed of.

In short it's counterproductive and elitist.

A real good way to lose elections.

#36 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-22 06:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You're completely white-washing the crucial distinction of racial slavery:
Racial slavery was justified because the enslaved race wasn't even human.
This is what makes American slavery so much worse than Roman times.

#31 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-01-22 01:47 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You're white-washing the Romans. Julius Cesaer started with 3 million Gaul barbarians. In his Celtic Holocaust, he killed off 1 million and enslaved 1 million in a span of 7 years.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-01-23 12:20 PM | Reply

#37 Good point. See #23.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 01:03 PM | Reply

Eh, Human Resources

#39 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-01-23 01:12 PM | Reply

All slavery is bad? Who knew?

#40 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 01:25 PM | Reply

#41 Not the authors of the Thirteenth Amendment.

Or maybe they'd say it's bad, so that's what makes it a good punishment. Such an enlightened view of slavery!

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 01:31 PM | Reply

It's a punishment for crimes. Also a crime in itself,which is perverse in a way. But then murder is a crime that is punished with death,so there's that,I guess?

#42 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 01:47 PM | Reply

"This is what makes American slavery so much worse than Roman times. And this belief in racial superiority and inferiority still persists in America."

So...then explain to me how Asians have become the most successful demographic in this country by most measures?

Did the Klan anoint them as honorary Aryans?

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The best example may be that even a successful white person can be completely wiped out by a healthcare issue."

Only white people?

Those of non-Caucasian heritage are excluded from such a phenomenon?

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:15 PM | Reply

"But like many things, they don't understand the bigger picture."

Well...fortunately for the Republicans, there are no shortage of people on the left willing to lecture Jethro and his inbred, flyover country ilk on their lack of wokeness, and why they are nothing but a bunch of irrelevant fascists.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:18 PM | Reply

"If Dems want to reach poor whites,and engage them,they need to lose the snooty attitude toward poor whites."

You 100% cannot do that without losing the support of the snooty elites who could give a ---- less about the concerns of poor whites.

And the snooty elites are far more visible to politicians and the donors who support them.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Poor whites need to vote for their "real" self interests. They thought Trump gave a ---- about them. Well unite with your poor brethren. Skin color = divide and conquer

#47 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-01-23 02:28 PM | Reply

If the Dems could get the poor whites,they would be unstoppable. But they despise poor whites. It's not the poor ------- the unwoke socially conservative part. If they could focus on economic issues and cut abortion,and social uplift loose,they would be more able to win and make policy.

Shaming people doesn't win votes,it earns enemies. The poor of all races have more in common than the poor do with the rich.

Use that.

#48 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 02:31 PM | Reply

#48

The core of the Democratic Party is comprised of voters with higher income and education levels. Their problems are "rich people problems." Income Inequality. Social Justice. Environmentalism.

Things that your average blue collar worker in the rust belt aren't that concerned with. They might even be against them.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If the Dems could get the poor whites, they would be unstoppable."

Couldn't the same thing be said about the Republicans?

Trump kind of did that in 2016.

Didn't you say you voted for Trump in 2016?

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-23 02:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

They need to build a diverse coalition of rich and poor. But how? You tell me?

#51 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 02:39 PM | Reply

I did,to my shame.But it was less about liking Trump in ANY way than HATING all things Clinton.

Trump did build that type of coalition,so clearly it CAN be done.

The Dems just need to bottle the lightening,get our own demigogue,like you have been saying for a while,hopefully they wouldn't be a total ----------- Trump.

Just kidding,a demigogue is the last ------- thing we need. However,if there has to be one,I'd rather he or she was liberal and environmentally correct than not,LOL.

#52 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 02:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Nobody is shaming anyone ,kinda. I've been in the work force since the early 70's and what have I heard:

The n**&&rs are stealing our jobs.
The lazy Mexicans are stealing our jobs.
China is stealing our jobs.

Nobody is stealing anything from you if you don't educate yourself and vote for your interest.

Trump fooled you and stole more from you that you can admit

#53 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-01-23 02:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's the schools man,we need re-education, we need to get people to see their own self interest,not be dopes for Trump. Larn'em,larn'em good. Then they'll vote correctly,for their corporate servitude,oops,that's all there is on offer anyway. Corporations are people too,my friend. They own the government and most of the populace already.

We need to find a way to destroy corporations,they have already destroyed our society,and the consolidation of their influence is only accelerating,by the day.

#54 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 03:11 PM | Reply

"So...then explain to me how Asians have become the most successful demographic in this country by most measures?"

Education and a strong family ethic.
Basically the same way Jews have become the other most successful demographic in this country.

But this happened in the past forty years or so. Asians who got sent to FDR's camps, or built the railroads before that, were not the most successful demographic in the country at that time.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 05:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The core of the Democratic Party is comprised of voters with higher income and education levels. Their problems are "rich people problems." Income Inequality. Social Justice. Environmentalism."

Well, we're a nation so rich, even our poor people are rich, according to you.
So why aren't you on board with the Democrat platform, MadBomber?

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 05:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#53

"Nobody is stealing anything from you if you don't educate yourself and vote for your interest.

Bruce, my man. Drop the "don't".

Living in AZ, have you EVER met a "lazy" Mexican? They'll out work us every day of the week.

#57 | Posted by willowby at 2021-01-23 06:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#57 Have you tried working... smarter?

Stay in school, kids!

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 06:13 PM | Reply

#58

What's with the being a recent total dbag, snoofy?

#59 | Posted by willowby at 2021-01-23 06:16 PM | Reply

Besides, I retired at 54.

#60 | Posted by willowby at 2021-01-23 06:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

he core of the Democratic Party is comprised of voters with higher income and education levels. Their problems are "rich people problems." Income Inequality. Social Justice. Environmentalism.

Things that your average blue collar worker in the rust belt aren't that concerned with. They might even be against them.

#49 | Posted by madbomber

The job of the government is not to cater to the ignorance of the dumbest citizens. Just because they're too dumb or brainwashed to know that fighting income inequality will benefit them, doesn't mean it shouldnt be pursued.

Just because they're too stupid to see the long term consequences of pollution, or too selfish to care, doesn't mean our leaders should allow them to trash the planet.

#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-01-23 06:31 PM | Reply

What's with the being a recent total dbag, snoofy?
#59 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

I should have been a bag my whole life, like you?

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 06:40 PM | Reply

Have you ever read your post history, Willowby?

What is it that you think you bring to the table, aside from calling people names and putting people down?

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 06:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#63

Seriously?

I used to just comment on the topic, get personal trashing instead of debate. I gave that up and adopted your tactics which is the nom du jour of this site

#64 | Posted by willowby at 2021-01-23 09:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Pot calling the kettle black,snoofster,you're insulting as hell all the time. Willowby has a valid point,you sanctimonious piece of ----.

What do You bring besides tiresome sanctimony to the conversation?,oh,I forgot,bad sarcasm.

#65 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 09:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I bring pedantic solipsism, marginally witty rejoinder, and occasional insight.

But it's more about what I don't bring: baseless accusations about currying favor for China, for example. Baseless claims of any nature, like saying a President has narcissistic personality disorder, or dementia.

I bring facts, and can support my beliefs with them.

Whereas you guys are, or were, Trumpers.

Like that's a thing a grown man can be, and not expect to be viewed as a stupid piece of ----.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-23 09:40 PM | Reply

One vote, 4 years ago, that I deeply regret,that I have never lied about casting,does not a Trumper make. You claim to be above pigeonholing people, that's a laugh. You are sanctimonious,vain and never admit error,all character flaws displayed abundantly by the Dotard.

You think you're way more clever than you actually are. It's a common failing.

Fact is, you bring something,but no more than anyone else here.

Get over yourself little Donnie. You have all of his flaws with none of his charisma.

#67 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 11:27 PM | Reply

Solipsism,the belief,that only YOU exist,that only your mind is real, or has any meaning, sums you up pretty well. Self centered to the core.

Looks like I pegged you dead on,even Trump himself isn't that stupid,I hope.

I looked it up, solipsism has got to be the most --------, unrealistic, philosophy I have ever heard of. Of course other minds exist and have meaning. How could they not?

No man is an island,however much he might want to be. I live a largely solitary life,and I can say with conviction,that solipsism is not reality. It is a pipe dream cooked up by solitary thinkers who can't get over themselves.

Sound familiar?

#68 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-23 11:50 PM | Reply

"One vote, 4 years ago, that I deeply regret,that I have never lied about casting,does not a Trumper make."

Fair enough.

Unlike Willowby, there's hope for you.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 12:35 AM | Reply

"Self centered to the core."

This just warms my heart, coming from a reformed, regretful Trump voter.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:03 AM | Reply

"Per Pew Research - 40% of Trump voters believe that Trump definitely won the election, while another 35% believe that he probably did. That's 75% of 74 million people."

You were this stupid, just four years ago.
Willowby still is.

You're not exactly impressing me, with your reform act.
"I stopped eating my own ----!" isn't exactly an accomplishment to crow about.

But hey. At least you stopped.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:06 AM | Reply

I will admit I knew little about Trump's past in 2016, I don't have a TV and don't follow celebs much. He was seemingly antiwar and humbled the Bushes,which I loved. I did detect some things about him that were suspect and I only voted for him because I hated Hillary and everyone said she had no chance of losing.

In fact, Hillary won the state of Virginia,so my vote never actually helped Trump,but I still bear that stain. I should have abstained from voting for president that year.

I would never have voted for Hillary.

My "support" of Trump was purely negative in nature,defined more by who he ran against than who he was.

Any other democrat,but Hillary, would have gotten my vote.

No doubt about that.

You hate Trump? Blame the corruption of the DNC, that's why we got the Dotard.

Any other democrat would have kicked his ass.

#72 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 01:33 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You hate Trump? Blame the corruption of the DNC"

You hate baseball? Blame football!

You're a moron.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I will admit I knew little about Trump's past in 2016"

Care to admit why you didn't listen to anyone who warned you about Trump?

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:38 AM | Reply

"You hate Trump? Blame the corruption of the DNC, that's why we got the Dotard."

^
This is like a hostage taker who kills a hostage when the police don't respond to his demands... and then blames the police for having to kill the hostage.

The sad part is, it seems like you're trying to be sincere.

But you simply don't know how to.

And that is heartbreaking.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What happened to you, that you still think Hillary would have been worse than Trump?
I feel like it has to be related to women in your life.
Multiple failed marriages?
Is your mother a skeleton living in a wheelchair?

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 01:45 AM | Reply

The polls said Hillary,"couldn't" lose,that she had a lock on victory. I figured, who could it hurt? Obviously,I was seriously wrong.

I have always felt, since I that vote, like someone who voted for HITLER in 1932 must have felt when they realized they had unleashed a Moloch on the world. Many in Germany committed suicide from that shame. Many others were haunted for life by the guilt of their actions.

I understand the gravity of my error. I voted half cocked,without reflection about the consequences.

This will not happen again. I will never vote frivolously and carelessly again.

#77 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 01:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Libya,the Serbian bombing by NATO,the Rwandan massacres,Waco. NAFTA, Glass Steagal, Bill Clinton was a fool and debauched to boot.

Hillary enabled it all. Her judgement was shown to be totally lacking. She ran on Bill's coattails,not as a person in her own right. She never renounced the Clintonian worldview.

So no, I don't feel that she would have necessarily been better than Trump.

She might have started a major shooting war in Iran or elsewhere.

Even if not,she's a turd. Arrogant, hypocritical, totally full of her own self importance, she's no better than the Dotard himself.

I should have stood down in disgust in 2016.

There was no one running worth voting for.

The 100,000,000 people who stayed home that year were the wise ones.

Like Venezuela,they should have declared the elections invalid due to low voter turnout.

The USA,some beacon of democracy,what a sad joke that is.

#78 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 02:12 AM | Reply

"Libya,the Serbian bombing by NATO,the Rwandan massacres,Waco. NAFTA, Glass Steagal, Bill Clinton was a fool and debauched to boot."

You're putting Rwanda on Hillary Clinton?
You're putting Glass Steagall on Hillary Clinton?

Anyway, that delusion aside, wwat was the Trump and/or GOP position on all those things? You don't even know.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 02:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The polls said Hillary,"couldn't" lose,that she had a lock on victory. I figured, who could it hurt? Obviously,I was seriously wrong."

This belies everything you just said about NAFTA, etc. So you can't even figure out in your own mind why you did it.
Hopefully I've made it clear this is a very serious problem, and something you should be deeply concerned about yourself.
It starts with not taking responsibility for your own actions, but then it gets worse, you aren't even sure why you did it.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 02:51 AM | Reply

"I understand the gravity of my error."

I don't think you do, if you can't say why you did it.

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 02:52 AM | Reply

"I will never vote frivolously and carelessly again."

Voting happens once every four years.
It's the careless thinking that's the real problem for you.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 02:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm trying to make this clear. You are being obtuse. I would not have voted for Hillary,she has shown bad judgement on many things in my opinion. Both as SOS and as a co equal partner with Bill. That said,if the election had been seen as close I would not have voted for Trump.

That doesn't mean I would have voted for Hillary even if I knew Trump would win.

I just don't like the Clinton's,I'm glad the back has been broken on their dynasty.

Was it worth it,given the horrors of Trumpism? I'm not sure.

I still never would have voted FOR her even if I knew the future.

I just wouldn't have voted.

#83 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 03:05 AM | Reply

"We need to find a way to destroy corporations,they have already destroyed our society,and the consolidation of their influence is only accelerating,by the day."

Easy.

There are few, if any, corporations out there than will survive if their customers elect to stop buying from them.

#84 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-01-24 04:36 AM | Reply

I like turtles

#85 | Posted by hamburglar at 2021-01-24 05:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

^Whoops, wrong thread!

#86 | Posted by hamburglar at 2021-01-24 05:45 AM | Reply

HAMBURGLER

I like turtles, too. In fact, I saved the life of one (rather large) turtle trying to cross a road yesterday. It was a Snapper. I put on my flashers and stopped traffic. (LOL ~~ There was only one other car behind me.) Regardless, he was doomed to a certain death.

Then the ungrateful rascal swung his head around and tried to bite me.

#87 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-01-24 06:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So...then explain to me how Asians have become the most successful demographic in this country by most measures?"
Education and a strong family ethic.

#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-01-23 05:14 PM | FLAG:

Why would you intentionally leave off the adoption of local customs? They adopt "white names". It's kind of important to getting hired in America.

#88 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-01-24 09:40 AM | Reply

"I still never would have voted FOR her even if I knew the future."

I would and did vote for her and would do so again because my opinions are not handed to me by pundits. I form my own and I was a voting adult when Hillary first came onto the political scene. She was given the job of creating a national healthcare plan by Bill. The conservatives were like pirhana on her ever since. 99% of everything you think you know about her is total crap. You think you rejected her, you now have Biden. Basically the same animal. Thankfully so.

#89 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-24 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Why would you intentionally leave off the adoption of local customs? They adopt "white names". It's kind of important to getting hired in America."

You mean like the Drumpf family?

#90 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-24 11:55 AM | Reply

She was given the job of creating a national healthcare plan by Bill.

Obviously why she didn't do anything about Rwanda. Can't she multitask?

#91 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-01-24 11:56 AM | Reply

I will never condone Bill's predatory behavior but to say he was an ineffective president is laughable.

I also get why people who feel condescended to don't like Hillary, but again, both are competent and effective.

I get people not liking the elitist attitude but here's the deal: They're right. Not about everything and not all of the time, but in general (You might not want to hear this), Neoliberalism has been a global success.

Is it time to tweak the system, certainly. Is it time to burn the system down.....?

That was the general decision that was made in both 2016 and 2020.

#92 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-01-24 12:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Neoliberal LOL that's a noxious buzzword frequently bandied about by so-called progressives to attack anybody who's not pure enough for them.

#93 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-24 12:50 PM | Reply

I'm old enough to remember when the Clinton's came on the national scene in 1992. Bill talked a great game about service and how they were not about the money but for making America a better place,etc. I loved it,I voted for him enthusiastically,then I watched as they destroyed the safety net for the poor, repealed Glass Steagal,Bombed Serbia,embraced the job destroyer known as NAFTA,killed Americans with gas and fire in Waco.

My Enthusiasm was gone,never to return,in fact by the end of Bill's first term I hated them both. They clearly were cashin' in. Not about "service and country", just about their own bottom line.

Hillary as SOS, was a disaster, The Libya debacle,with that sadistic cackle about Quaddaffi's death, the endless sanctions on Iran. you get the point.

Basically,this is a long winded way of saying that Hillary and Bill, Earned my contempt with their own public actions. The ------- meant nothing to me. It just reinforced my conviction that they were both Scum. I still think that.

Their retirement from public life made me Happy.

As happy as Trump's is making me again and all of you as well.

#94 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 01:11 PM | Reply

Neoliberal LOL that's a noxious buzzword frequently bandied about by so-called progressives to attack anybody who's not pure enough for them.

#93 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2021-01-24 12:50 PM | FLAG:

Your ignorance is showing. Neoliberalism is an academic subdiscipline at the highest level. It was the main focus of my undergraduate degree in International Relations and my Postgraduate work on MERCOSUR in southern South America.

#95 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-01-24 02:41 PM | Reply

My feelings on the success of Neoliberalism does not invalidate, however, the urgent need to address economic inequality. It does, however, explain my reluctance to burn the @#$@ to the ground.

#96 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-01-24 02:44 PM | Reply

"Their retirement from public life made me Happy.
As happy as Trump's is making me again and all of you as well."

To compare the Clintons with the Trumps is ridiculous. The Trumps actually attempted a coup on our government, neither Bill nor Hillary ever even considered such an outrageous act. When you so easily compare them it's as if you really believe that the level of evil was the same. Sorry, but there is absolutely no comparison. Virtually everything you hold against the Clintons can be explained in a rational way, they never conducted a war to gain access to oil as did Bush. Their efforts in Libya were in response to a potential humanitarian crisis after Ghadafi's son threatened "rivers of blood" and we were also there because our allies the British and the French had asked up to be there with them after they had assisted us in other conflicts. We did not go there for any gain in resources, it was entirely an attempt to avert a slaughter of Libyan people.
I wasn't entirely happy with how it turned out either but the Clintons didn't create the situation and were only doing what they thought was right at the time and I'll say it, I agreed with them and I still pretty much do.

#97 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-24 02:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What about NAFTA,"the end of welfare as we know it", Waco, Serbia, Glass Steagal, Perjury under oath,the complete disregard of the Rwanda horrors. Bill Clinton was a horrible president and ------ human being. Hillary enabled all of it. She kept talking about "bimbo eruptions"etc.

They constantly looked for ways to profit from the office. Foundations and think tanks designed to enrich them personally for giving access,so called "pay to play". Corrupt,as corrupt as Trump, but more competent at it. Less of a trail.

Them leaving public life is the second best thing that's happened in politics in many years.

Obviously many people agree, or Hillary would have been elected. Her insuperable lead was not really that big. She lost,Trump won.

How do I feel about that? I'm not happy about most of Trump's policies and his contempt for democracy. I'm glad he's gone.

Hillary would have been corrupt,but competent.

I guess that's better than corrupt and Incompetent, but she might have started a shooting war that killed untold numbers.

Trump never did.

#98 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 03:14 PM | Reply

"I would not have voted for Hillary,she has shown bad judgement on many things in my opinion."

And what of Trump? Has he shown even worse judgment on many things, in your opinion?

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 03:24 PM | Reply

"My Enthusiasm was gone,never to return,in fact by the end of Bill's first term I hated them both. They clearly were cashin' in. Not about "service and country", just about their own bottom line."

And you can't figure out Trump tapped into your disillusionment?
And you couldn't figure out everything you (echoing Trump and the right-wing fake news machine) accused the Clintons of, is what Trump was going to do?

This is what I'm talking about.
I don't think you've learned much.
All you've done is become disillusioned again, just like last time.

You don't have political thoughts. You have political feelings.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 03:27 PM | Reply

"The ------- meant nothing to me. It just reinforced my conviction that they were both Scum. I still think that."

What bothered me most about the BJ wasn't Bill and certainly not Hillary. It was that bitch Linda Tripp. She manipulated Monica Lewinski into committing an entirely adult sexual act and then used it to try and tear down a popular Democratic President....and she failed miserably and was viewed as a laughable joke for the rest of her time. And please explain how that made Hillary a terrible person? She had nothing to do with it. Your thinking is very cloudy. Your opinions are sort of affected by the Republican spin that was put on everything they did because the entire right wing was seething because of their success and popularity. Yes they made a lot of money after Bill's Presidency, good for them! Didn't bother me in the slightest. People will pay lots of money to hear the most successful politician in decades speak. I was one of those people. Saw him right here at the Broward County Center for the Arts and he was amazing. The breadth of his knowledge, especially on foreign affairs would make most politicians today seem illiterate.
Barrack Obama was very intelligent but Bill was probably the smartest person we've had in the WH since....I don't know when...maybe Eisenhower or Kennedy. None of the Republicans we've had there were even in his league of intelligence.

#101 | Posted by danni at 2021-01-24 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#101

NW but honestly JFK and Ike don't hold a candle to neither Clinton, nor Obama's intellectual intelligence. If you want to talk about EQ or practical intelligence/street smarts sure, but I think people sleep on how intelligent both are.

Granted he was not a nice person at all, but next in line would probably be Woodrow Wilson, who would have ranked 4th just behind President Hillary Clinton.

#102 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-01-24 03:35 PM | Reply

I think Nixon was smart. Going to China was smart. But maybe that's only in hindsight.

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 03:37 PM | Reply

Yes,Trump has shown, UNBELIEVABLE bad judgement about almost everything. He commited incitement to insurrection for God's sake,he deserves prison for inciting murder. Trump is worse than the Clinton's, that doesn't make them good,The future horrors of a Trump presidency were not entirely foreseeable. Hillary had a track record of veniality and corruption,she was a weak candidate,The DNC stepped on the scale to guarantee she got the nomination,it was never in doubt,that's corruption.

Just because Trump turned out to be so bad doesn't give Hillary a pass on everything.

I voted for Biden as a lesser evil,he's as Danni says,cut from the same cloth as the Clinton's,not a ringing endorsement for me.

I think Biden is a far better person than either of the Clinton's,I hope he has grown and learned much in his long public career.

I genuinely hope that he becomes the progressive leader he could be.

Biden is obviously a good and decent man,one who cares for all Americans,red or blue.

The future is better with Trump Gone.

#104 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 03:42 PM | Reply

Trump didn't "turn out" bad. He was bad when you voted for him. He campaigned on bad policies. His bad judgment was on full display prior to becoming President.

"The future is better with Trump Gone."

What Trump gave rise to, is not going anywhere.

Trumpism, QAnon, naked bigotry, conspiracy theory, and an affinity for violent solutions to political problems are going to be with us for the foreseeable future. They are now the core values of the GOP.

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 03:48 PM | Reply

"I voted for Biden as a lesser evil"

Can you explain what that means?
How does a Biden Presidency bring evil tidings to America?

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 03:49 PM | Reply

Maybe we should ask the Pope to canonize both the Clinton's,you guys sure seem to see no wrong in them. If I'm overly harsh,you surely are overly gushing, and in awe of, people who are trash.

Clinton lied as much as Trump,just more believably,he lied under oath and was impeached, rightfully so,by Congress. He should have been removed. Just as Trump should have been removed.

If he had been,no Iraq war, probably no 911 at all. No precedent of the supreme court stealing elections. No "compassionate conservatisim".

All the war crimes of Bush Cheney would have never happened.

Think about that next time you feel all lovey about Bill and Hill.

That selfish ------- helped degrade the rule of law and accountability for elected officials.

He should have stepped down when impeached.

It would have made Trump's rise less likely.

#107 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 03:57 PM | Reply

"Clinton lied as much as Trump"

Bull. ----.
Both of the Clintons together didn't lie as much as Trump.
And they certainly didn't tell lies that got (checks today's number) 428,770 Americans dead.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

At the very least Clinton's stepping down would have WEAKENED the presidency,which could only be a good thing. We need a weaker executive,and Congress needs to reclaim their rightfully equal powers. A weakened executive would have placed a greater check on Trump and his --------.

He would not have been able to subvert the system as easily.

The law applies EQUALLY,regardless of party or person. Trump used the imperial presidency to try to be an emperor in fact.

We need to weaken the president,all presidents;

Not just the ones we hate.

#109 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 04:07 PM | Reply

So the Iraq wars, 911 and Lewzer were all Bubba's fault?

Is that Q's new direction?

#110 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-01-24 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

PolitiFact does a pretty good job of keeping track of politician's lies.

I've never encountered an elected official in America Who Lies as much as Donald Trump.

#111 | Posted by Tor at 2021-01-24 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Think about that next time you feel all lovey about Bill and Hill."

I have no love for them. I defy you to find where I've ever heaped any kind of lavish praise on either of the Clintons. Bill Clinton governed like a Republican, and I'm not a fan of Republicanism -- at least not as it plays out in America.

You're the one who can't stop hating The Clintons.
You're still eating right from Putin's hand.
You're going to take your ire to the grave. You're going to spend the rest of your life convinced that we dodged a bullet in 2016.
You are owned.

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:10 PM | Reply

"At the very least Clinton's stepping down would have WEAKENED the presidency,which could only be a good thing. We need a weaker executive,and Congress needs to reclaim their rightfully equal powers. "

^
Magical Thinking.
Just because Clinton steps down, doesn't make Congress suddenly rear up and assert itself.
And why did Clinton get impeached in the first place? Because Republicans in Congress used their impeachment power to do exactly what you asked of them -- assert the power of Congress.

You got your weak Executive in Trump. Are you happy with how that turned out?

#113 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:13 PM | Reply

"We need to weaken the president,all presidents"

But when you voted for Trump in 2016, you were voting for a stronger President.
Doesn't it strike you as... odd, that now that we have a Democrat President, you're convinced the office needs to be weakened?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:15 PM | Reply

"They constantly looked for ways to profit from the office."

Got any examples?

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:19 PM | Reply

My praise of both Clinton's, although more for Bill is this and this alone:

The Clintons were smart, competent, and efficient, but not perfect.

The good outweighs the bad by about a 60/40 ratio.

#116 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-01-24 04:21 PM | Reply

I always thought a parliamentary system was better than our own. The executive and legislative intertwined. When the ruling party loses the confidence of the majority the executive is gone immediately. More viable parties, proportional representation,no winner take all --------. The parties form coalitions to determine who leads. No president,certainly not the king like presidents we have. If the prime minister is Incompetent or loses the support of the majority based on proportional representation of all parties he is gone the same day.

Much better system,ours frankly sucks and is undemocratic as hell.

#117 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 04:37 PM | Reply

Nonsense.
All those countries with parliamentary systems don't allow money in politics like we do.
That's the difference. It's not the style of government. It's running government -- any government -- like an auction.
You could cut out the middleman and do like Putin does: Run government like a monopoly. That's what you were hoping Trump would do.

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 04:42 PM | Reply

I'm so glad you know what I was hoping,Snoof.

Actually, I wanted Bernie to win the nomination.

Are you old enough to actually remember the Clinton presidency? If so you seem to forget a lot.

He sold out Americans with NAFTA,and repealed Glass Steagal, he led directly to Citizens United, the framework was built for that decision by the whole unleashing of the "free market" by the bank's speculations,after the curbs on bank trading were removed. It all led to a general acceptance of money in politics and no limits on finance and speculation by everyone.

If the bank's and corporations had been held in check by strong antitrust laws Citizens United would have been unthinkable.

The general weakening of antitrust laws made Citizens United inevitable in some form.

We did dodge a bullet in 2016,but the bullet we got hit by was equally bad, or worse.

At this point our system is In tatters.

The next Trump, and there will be one,will finish the job.

As you said, Trumpism is not gone,it's waiting.

#119 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 05:03 PM | Reply

"Are you old enough to actually remember the Clinton presidency? If so you seem to forget a lot."
On the contrary, I remember it better than you.

"He sold out Americans with NAFTA"
Bob Dole was also pro-NAFTA. NAFTA was an inevitability. I voted for Perot that year.

"and repealed Glass Steagal"
Republicans also wanted to repeal Glass-Steagall. It was another inevitability.

"he led directly to Citizens United"
No he didn't. He didn't have anything to do with Citizen's United. Republicans have always favored money in politics, since they are the party for the rich. Kennedy was the swing vote on CU, and he was a Reagan appointee.

"We did dodge a bullet in 2016,but the bullet we got hit by was equally bad, or worse."

Still equivocating I see. You're incapable of not equivocating.

Everything you're saying falls into two categories:
1. Ignorance of history.
2. Revisionist history.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 05:33 PM | Reply

"The next Trump, and there will be one,will finish the job."

Saying Hillary Clinton is just as bad only helps them finish the job.

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 05:41 PM | Reply

Never was born or raised in
Appalachia, currently reside in WV.
People here, for the most part, are
very nice, but sadly, pretty damned
ignorant too. This is Prime Trump
country... But hell, what do you expect
when 9 out 10 t.v.'s blast Faux News
day and night?! Democrats (like myself)
know not to advertise or talk politics in
bars, 'cuz Uncle Fester may just have a
loaded gun in his truck, and is certainly
crazy enough to use it. So, life goes on
out here in WV, the Right stays mad, and
the Left stays largely quiet...

#122 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-01-24 06:08 PM | Reply

If you're white and not wealthy and successful, it's only because you squandered that privilege.
#3 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Point here being, all things being equal, the lighter your skin pigmentation, the more privilege you possess.

Poor white people do not mitigate this evidenced fact.

#123 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-01-24 06:11 PM | Reply

"Actually, I wanted Bernie to win the nomination."

Me too. But when he didn't, you decided it was better to burn down the country, rather than vote Hillary, like Bernie begged you to, for months?

You didn't want Bernie. You wanted to feel like you were going to be a part of something big that was going to be some kind of once in a lifetime opportunity for you.

I know I sound accusatory. I'm not trying to blame you. I'm just saying how it all actually sounds to me. This is what makes the most sense, about what you were thinking, and how you got on board the Trump Train.

What happened to you sure seems like the reason this country is heading down the tubes, in terms of making political choices. Maybe you really are better, only time will tell. But so many of these Trumpers are just itching to hop back on board the next train to fascism. Some knowing full well it's facism; others still not even recognizing it for what it is, after his supporters stormed The Capitol.

How would you try to get through to such people, EffetePoser? How do you get them to listen to Bernie next time?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 06:21 PM | Reply

I retired at 54.
#60 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

You must have hated your job. Sad.

#125 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-01-24 06:23 PM | Reply

I used to just comment on the topic, get personal trashing instead of debate. I gave that up and adopted your tactics which is the nom du jour of this site
#64 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

And that's what keeps bringing you back here? Says more about you than it does about the DR.

#126 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-01-24 06:25 PM | Reply

There are few, if any, corporations out there than will survive if their customers elect to stop buying from them.
#84 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Whelp, there's one vote in support of cancel culture.

FWIW, I completely agree with you. True definition of cancel culture is found within that of capitalism.

#127 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-01-24 06:30 PM | Reply

#124 Not treat the primary like it's a formality. Not obviously favor one candidate.

Try someone new, stop repeating the hits of yesteryear. Get rid of superdelegates completely. New leadership of the DNC.

As far as reaching the bombthrowers on the right. Abandon abortion as a central plank of the party. More economic policies that favor the poor and lower middle class. Stop shaming people for things they're not ashamed of.

Actually try to bring jobs back that have been lost. Fight right to work laws, raise corporate tax rates, single payer healthcare.

Stop acting like the party is only for wealthy donors and everyone else is expendible.

#128 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 07:27 PM | Reply

I sure as hell didn't want Clinton. I didn't want Trump either. I wasn't really thrilled about Bernie,there was no cult of personality there for me. I liked his proposed policies better than Hillary's,or Trump's.

When Bernie lost the primary,I just didn't feel that I was going to be represented by either candidate,I knew and hated Hillary,and decided to vote for Trump instead,not really knowing what he would do.

If Hillary was not the candidate,I never would have voted for Trump. I thought the DNC fixed it for Hillary, so I decided to stop the steal.

Martin O'Malley,anyone but Hillary, and I never would have voted republican. Hell,any republican but Trump and I never would have voted republican. Trump was new,he ran to the left of Hillary on many issues. I sensed he was lying,but hated what the DNC had done and wanted to scotch their triumph.

Hillary was shrill, abrasive,and overly certain of her victory,she needed to be taken down a few pegs. And she was. Trump turned out worse than I expected,but not hugely so.

I guess in some sense I was being a bombthrower too. That's why I feel guilty. But I still don't think Hillary would have made a good president, probably less destructive than Trump to be sure.

Half the country did the same thing. Maybe you should rethink your love of Hillary,maybe we saw something you missed.

At any rate,picking the least popular democrat in the nation to run for president because it was her "turn" was stupid.

Martin O'Malley could have beaten Trump,he had no baggage. Hillary was nothing but baggage,and divisiveness. That's why she lost.

Don't blame me,blame the DNC,they acted like thugs and paid the price,we all did.

#129 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 07:53 PM | Reply

"Try someone new, stop repeating the hits of yesteryear. Get rid of superdelegates completely. New leadership of the DNC."

How in the world did you think a vote for Trump was a vote to change the inner workings of the Democratic Party?

How is that a tenable logical conclusion?

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 08:30 PM | Reply

I was done with the Democrats at that point. The whole superdelegate thing seemed counterproductive to me and antidemocratic.

I was wrong,hugely so,my family was pissed.

They wanted me to hold my nose and vote for the candidate, as they called her. They couldn't bring themselves to call her by name. But they all voted for her even though I knew they hated her as much as I did.

They were smarter about Trump for sure,my dad called him " that ------- idiot" he was really pissed when I voted Trump,he is a lifelong democrat from Illinois.

The rest of my family just thought I was being reactionary and stupid,and they were largely right.

My dad is a big believer in what he calls "machine politics", he always votes democrat,except for Obama,he couldn't vote for a black president,that was a bridge too far for him,I guess? I voted for Obama twice,but the second time I was less excited about it.

#131 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 09:04 PM | Reply

"The whole superdelegate thing seemed counterproductive to me and antidemocratic."

This "belief was spoon-fed to you by Russian and GOP propaganda.

Or you would have known about it when Jesse Jackson ran for President. Are you too old to remember that?

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 09:07 PM | Reply

"I sure as hell didn't want Clinton. I didn't want Trump either."

LOL.
You voted for what you didn't want.
Best of all, it's not your fault!

You will never take responsibility for your actions.
Trump played you like a fiddle and you're still finding reasons to be grateful.

You're helping the next Trump win, every time you blame the Democrats for what you did. You're practically the mold from which the next generation of disaffected, disillusioned voters for fascism will be cast.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 09:13 PM | Reply

"I voted for Obama twice,but the second time I was less excited about it."

Who cares if you're excited?
Do you have to be excited to do things?
Look how badly you made decisions once you were no longer excited.

You need to learn how to think. Because Trump knows he can still count on you to react from emotion, not logic.

You called Hillary shrill. Trump is every bit as shrill. You refuse to see it.

You say Hillary was sure of her win. Si was Trump. But only one needed to be taken down.

And since when is having confidence a bad thing? It sounds more and more like you've never had any.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 09:22 PM | Reply

You talk about the Democrat Party like it's your older brother that grabbed your hands and made you slap yourself in the face over and over again, while saying "Why do you keep hitting yourself, do you like hitting yourself?"

Maybe Jane's Addiction was wrong. Maybe your big brother wasn't trying to teach you something.

And then, you got your revenge on your lifelong bully of a brother... by voting for Trump.

"I'm mad! This will show him!"

And then 400,000 people died.

And you're still mad at your brother, and blaming the Democrats, for something that happened in 1952.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 09:43 PM | Reply

Confidence, what's that? I think I've heard of it somewhere,but have no personal experience with it. I was being a bombthrower, the problem is I'm not alone. There are many others like me.

We need re-education,or all hope is lost. The depraved will destroy our world. I'm a warning to you and everyone else.

Don't ---- on people their whole lives, they get vicious and you won't like the outcome,it will come back to hurt you as well.

Even the dumbasses need to be able to survive,take away their hopes and they will destroy yours as well.

The Pied Piper of Mar a Lago is a warning for us all.

"And they made their mortar from slime"

Big changes are always top down or bottom up.

The vast middle are mostly spectators,in the March of change.

#136 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 09:50 PM | Reply

The entire point of this discussion is to find out what made you a Trumper, so we can stop others from following that same path.

The same path Robert Byrd was on when he joined the KKK.

It's more than "Hillary was a shrill, smug sleaze." Because Trump is all those things in spades.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 11:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good jobs for dumbasses. That's what stops dictatorships.

#138 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 11:08 PM | Reply

I took out student loans to get a good job in biotech.

Education is the best path out of poverty.

One party supports public education, the other tries to defund it every chance they get.

Did you know that in 2016? Do you know it in 2021?

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 11:12 PM | Reply

Only one party says unions are the problem.

Are unions the problem?

Do you know if it's better to be a dumbass in a Right To Work state?

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 11:13 PM | Reply

No,unions are not the problem. "Right to work laws" are. Unions help people survive who are not superstars. They help the rank and file have something more than bare survival, at best.

Why are so many doing without so a few can be extra loaded beyond their needs, or even beyond their contributions?

Republicans are worse,but mainstream Dems really don't give ---- about the poor. Less than $50,000 a year and you're invisible to both parties unless you're "of color" a woman or gay.

#141 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 11:23 PM | Reply

Actually try to bring jobs back that have been lost. Fight right to work laws, raise corporate tax rates, single payer healthcare.

Trump only ever promised to do one of those things, and Trump actually did zero of those things.

You're too easily distracted by your own navel gazing.

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 11:23 PM | Reply

"Less than $50,000 a year and you're invisible to both parties"

It's like you can't figure out Obamacare made it easier for such people to afford health care!

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-24 11:26 PM | Reply

This country has a big problem, I'm not it, I'm old and on my way down, it's the young with no hope, I see it every day. They want things, material things. They work hard and can't make the rent,let alone save for tommorow. That's the problem. The rich holding the young and the dumb, back from a satisfying life. I know,I hear all about education, education, education,until it's coming out of my ears,but what about the ones who don't learn? What about the ones who can't learn?

Prison? We've already got 2,000,000 people in prison now. The prisons are packed.

Low functioning people need dignity, respect, and adequate income. Without that they become very dangerous to the more highly functioning majority.

A high minimum wage would go far toward stopping the Trump's of the world. That's why the repubs are so dead set against it. That and their insufferable cheapness. Keeping a large percentage of the population in poverty while others prosper from their labors is a recipe for insurrection or worse, revolution.

Universal healthcare also makes the poor uppity,because that don't need the boss to see a doctor when they need to. It makes for less frightened and docile workers.

That's bad for the elites,they want frightened slaves. Not dignified workers aware of their own worth and unwilling to be exploited.

Not everyone can be a superstar,most people are of modest attainments,they deserve dignity and a reasonable income and some level of security.

Our society as currently structured denies them this,more so every year. I have seen this myself as the years have gone by. It's harder to make it now than it ever was before in my lifetime.

I hope this helps.

#144 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-01-24 11:54 PM | Reply

You mean like the Drumpf family?

#90 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2021-01-24 11:55 AM | FLAG:

Yes, Asians didn't invent the concept of adopting local names. They're probably the best at it though.

#145 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-01-25 08:02 AM | Reply

There's an episode in the sitcom Fresh Off The Boat that goes into detail about the families "White Names" and why they picked them.

#146 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-01-25 08:03 AM | Reply

"Asians didn't invent the concept of adopting local names."

I have a friend named Chen-Li. He was born in the US, his parents are native Chinese. When I met him he told me his name was Anthony. It was a couple years before I found out it wasn't his real name. That's when I learned about the practice of adopting white names. I suppose I understood the reasoning but I have to admit that I was sad for him, and a little hurt, that he didn't think, or couldn't trust, that the people who loved him wouldn't want to know and use his real name, or worse, couldn't handle it. With his permission, I haven't called him Anthony ever since. Most of the time I forget "Anthony" was ever a thing until I hear somebody else use it. Makes me a little disgusted by who we are as a people that we expect people to deny who they are to make us more comfortable.

#147 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2021-01-25 08:23 AM | Reply

The TV series "Appalachian Outlaws" doesn't help matters. On the other hand, I had no idea Appalachian ginseng was so lucrative.

#148 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-01-25 10:54 AM | Reply

I always thought a parliamentary system was better than our own. The executive and legislative intertwined. When the ruling party loses the confidence of the majority the executive is gone immediately. More viable parties, proportional representation,no winner take all --------. The parties form coalitions to determine who leads. No president,certainly not the king like presidents we have. If the prime minister is Incompetent or loses the support of the majority based on proportional representation of all parties he is gone the same day.

Much better system,ours frankly sucks and is undemocratic as hell.

#117 | Posted by Effeteposer

Our founding fathers left and created this great nation to leave exactly what you are describing.

Our system of government created the best, richest nation on earth and give opportunities to it's citizens they cant get anywhere else..

#149 | Posted by boaz at 2021-01-25 12:01 PM | Reply

#147,

Your friend was doing what's called, assimilation. It's good he was doing that. Immigrants must become Americans, if they dont want to lose the ways of the countries they left, they can stay there.

Your friend is the reason Asians have been so successful and other races trying to segregate to create their utopias are remaining poor.

#150 | Posted by boaz at 2021-01-25 12:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why the heck is CNN even reporting this and DR Libs giving it any attention? For the last few decades, Dems have done everything they can to marginalize everyone rural areas to ensure their votes don't count and that they are treated lesser than when it comes to politics.

As far as names go with immigrants, some of you need to expand your horizons. So many entitled people still have never left the country and continue to think America is the only country who does anything suspect. I mean, I get why they do it here since they read CNN and just bow down to their masters, but you would think eventually some of them would actually come to reality. Renaming isn't only an American thing.

#151 | Posted by humtake at 2021-01-25 12:10 PM | Reply

It's harder to make it now than it ever was before in my lifetime.
I hope this helps.
#144 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

That's a feature, not a bug.

Also, are you aware that Republicans don't believe you?

Republicans will tell you it's an easy life on the Democrat Welfare Plantation.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-01-25 12:46 PM | Reply

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