"White privilege" is a -------- construct. It's like "toxic masculinity". Just buzzwords designed to elicit a certain response. Guilt,or defiance,or in my case, boredom at the cliche'.

White people are just the same as everyone else. They are not extra evil or anything else.

The idea of intrinsic differences that are defining,is racism, no matter the source,or victim.

Appalachian people are just rural poor,mostly white Scots-Irish. They are in a cul de sac of society. Life moved on while they remained in a backwater. The lowcountry blacks are a similar case. They don't get insulted nowadays, but they sure used to. It's still acceptable to talk ---- about poor whites,which is partly why we got Trump,in any case,just because they're white doesn't mean it's not racist to demean them.

Western man was an aggressive invasive force on the world. Imperialism is real,cultural chauvanism,and genocides, are real. None of it is uniquely
a Caucasian phenomenon. Western man is like all other cultures, except they went searching for weaker cultures they could exploit and strip resources from. This they were good at. Largely because of a market economy and better weapons of war.

I hate western overbearing dominance as much as the next guy. Still, it's not racial,it's just some -------- who happen to be white.

The blacks, Asians, everyone does it too. The whites are just more successful at it.

For now.

So does the history of slavery everywhere. Not always by skin color, sometimes it's caste, sometimes it's religion,sometimes it's tribal,sometimes it's racial. It's always one group seeing another as weaker and more exploitable than they are. It's always a horrible crime,among the worst of all human crimes.

Somehow,the exploiters never seem to get the evil of it. It's like a bad boss on steroids,but you can't quit or even be fired.

They just use you up. Slowly,quickly,it doesn't matter. The slave is always expendible in the end. Especially if he's hired on in the open market and the jobs available are few and the need for work is great. Then the boss doesn't even need to worry about keeping the worker on if he's become even slightly inconvenient.

No much different in effect,but chattel slavery is a far greater evil than wage servitude.

Wage slaves can still quit or be fired if they refuse the conditions of their work.

Furthermore,the slave trade was largely owned and operated by Jews. Moslems enslaved Christian's,and other Moslem sects different from their own. Minorities in general were often enslaved historically.

None of this was exclusively racist,but it all kinda was.

New world slavery was racial in that slaves were purchased from slave dealers who captured them or purchased them from stretches of West Africa,still in a state of nature.

Old world slavery is not a market economy thing, like western hemisphere chattel slavery was. It's got a market aspect, but it's not like the slave auctions in the Americas.

I agree with you about chattel slavery. I was not thinking clearly maybe or just distracted,but you are correct about it being codified racism and worse than classical slavery in the old world. I thought I made that clear but see now that I did not. My apologies to you and anyone else offended by that.

I am not sure what you mean by the narrative I am advancing,I have no real narrative. I'm just muddling through trying to get things right,not always succeeding.

Again I do apologize,sincerely. Your point is correct as far as it goes.

Tell a poor man he's "privileged", and he won't buy what you're selling about anything else.

It's like going into Harlem and telling everyone to go get a good job, what's holding you all back? The level of trust and open dialogue is gone.

If Dems want to reach poor whites,and engage them,they need to lose the snooty attitude toward poor whites. It is a stink that can't be missed when they start talking about a privilege they most of the "privileged" don't seem to feel.

Correct or not it just pushes them toward someone who isn't shaming them about something they're not ashamed of.

In short it's counterproductive and elitist.

A real good way to lose elections.

All slavery is bad? Who knew?

It's a punishment for crimes. Also a crime in itself,which is perverse in a way. But then murder is a crime that is punished with death,so there's that,I guess?

If the Dems could get the poor whites,they would be unstoppable. But they despise poor whites. It's not the poor ------- the unwoke socially conservative part. If they could focus on economic issues and cut abortion,and social uplift loose,they would be more able to win and make policy.

Shaming people doesn't win votes,it earns enemies. The poor of all races have more in common than the poor do with the rich.

Use that.

They need to build a diverse coalition of rich and poor. But how? You tell me?

I did,to my shame.But it was less about liking Trump in ANY way than HATING all things Clinton.

Trump did build that type of coalition,so clearly it CAN be done.

The Dems just need to bottle the lightening,get our own demigogue,like you have been saying for a while,hopefully they wouldn't be a total ----------- Trump.

Just kidding,a demigogue is the last ------- thing we need. However,if there has to be one,I'd rather he or she was liberal and environmentally correct than not,LOL.

It's the schools man,we need re-education, we need to get people to see their own self interest,not be dopes for Trump. Larn'em,larn'em good. Then they'll vote correctly,for their corporate servitude,oops,that's all there is on offer anyway. Corporations are people too,my friend. They own the government and most of the populace already.

We need to find a way to destroy corporations,they have already destroyed our society,and the consolidation of their influence is only accelerating,by the day.

Pot calling the kettle black,snoofster,you're insulting as hell all the time. Willowby has a valid point,you sanctimonious piece of ----.

What do You bring besides tiresome sanctimony to the conversation?,oh,I forgot,bad sarcasm.

One vote, 4 years ago, that I deeply regret,that I have never lied about casting,does not a Trumper make. You claim to be above pigeonholing people, that's a laugh. You are sanctimonious,vain and never admit error,all character flaws displayed abundantly by the Dotard.

You think you're way more clever than you actually are. It's a common failing.

Fact is, you bring something,but no more than anyone else here.

Get over yourself little Donnie. You have all of his flaws with none of his charisma.

Solipsism,the belief,that only YOU exist,that only your mind is real, or has any meaning, sums you up pretty well. Self centered to the core.

Looks like I pegged you dead on,even Trump himself isn't that stupid,I hope.

I looked it up, solipsism has got to be the most --------, unrealistic, philosophy I have ever heard of. Of course other minds exist and have meaning. How could they not?

No man is an island,however much he might want to be. I live a largely solitary life,and I can say with conviction,that solipsism is not reality. It is a pipe dream cooked up by solitary thinkers who can't get over themselves.

Sound familiar?

I will admit I knew little about Trump's past in 2016, I don't have a TV and don't follow celebs much. He was seemingly antiwar and humbled the Bushes,which I loved. I did detect some things about him that were suspect and I only voted for him because I hated Hillary and everyone said she had no chance of losing.

In fact, Hillary won the state of Virginia,so my vote never actually helped Trump,but I still bear that stain. I should have abstained from voting for president that year.

I would never have voted for Hillary.

My "support" of Trump was purely negative in nature,defined more by who he ran against than who he was.

Any other democrat,but Hillary, would have gotten my vote.

No doubt about that.

You hate Trump? Blame the corruption of the DNC, that's why we got the Dotard.

Any other democrat would have kicked his ass.

The polls said Hillary,"couldn't" lose,that she had a lock on victory. I figured, who could it hurt? Obviously,I was seriously wrong.

I have always felt, since I that vote, like someone who voted for HITLER in 1932 must have felt when they realized they had unleashed a Moloch on the world. Many in Germany committed suicide from that shame. Many others were haunted for life by the guilt of their actions.

I understand the gravity of my error. I voted half cocked,without reflection about the consequences.

This will not happen again. I will never vote frivolously and carelessly again.

Libya,the Serbian bombing by NATO,the Rwandan massacres,Waco. NAFTA, Glass Steagal, Bill Clinton was a fool and debauched to boot.

Hillary enabled it all. Her judgement was shown to be totally lacking. She ran on Bill's coattails,not as a person in her own right. She never renounced the Clintonian worldview.

So no, I don't feel that she would have necessarily been better than Trump.

She might have started a major shooting war in Iran or elsewhere.

Even if not,she's a turd. Arrogant, hypocritical, totally full of her own self importance, she's no better than the Dotard himself.

I should have stood down in disgust in 2016.

There was no one running worth voting for.

The 100,000,000 people who stayed home that year were the wise ones.

Like Venezuela,they should have declared the elections invalid due to low voter turnout.

The USA,some beacon of democracy,what a sad joke that is.

I'm trying to make this clear. You are being obtuse. I would not have voted for Hillary,she has shown bad judgement on many things in my opinion. Both as SOS and as a co equal partner with Bill. That said,if the election had been seen as close I would not have voted for Trump.

That doesn't mean I would have voted for Hillary even if I knew Trump would win.

I just don't like the Clinton's,I'm glad the back has been broken on their dynasty.

Was it worth it,given the horrors of Trumpism? I'm not sure.

I still never would have voted FOR her even if I knew the future.

I just wouldn't have voted.

I'm old enough to remember when the Clinton's came on the national scene in 1992. Bill talked a great game about service and how they were not about the money but for making America a better place,etc. I loved it,I voted for him enthusiastically,then I watched as they destroyed the safety net for the poor, repealed Glass Steagal,Bombed Serbia,embraced the job destroyer known as NAFTA,killed Americans with gas and fire in Waco.

My Enthusiasm was gone,never to return,in fact by the end of Bill's first term I hated them both. They clearly were cashin' in. Not about "service and country", just about their own bottom line.

Hillary as SOS, was a disaster, The Libya debacle,with that sadistic cackle about Quaddaffi's death, the endless sanctions on Iran. you get the point.

Basically,this is a long winded way of saying that Hillary and Bill, Earned my contempt with their own public actions. The ------- meant nothing to me. It just reinforced my conviction that they were both Scum. I still think that.

Their retirement from public life made me Happy.

As happy as Trump's is making me again and all of you as well.

What about NAFTA,"the end of welfare as we know it", Waco, Serbia, Glass Steagal, Perjury under oath,the complete disregard of the Rwanda horrors. Bill Clinton was a horrible president and ------ human being. Hillary enabled all of it. She kept talking about "bimbo eruptions"etc.

They constantly looked for ways to profit from the office. Foundations and think tanks designed to enrich them personally for giving access,so called "pay to play". Corrupt,as corrupt as Trump, but more competent at it. Less of a trail.

Them leaving public life is the second best thing that's happened in politics in many years.

Obviously many people agree, or Hillary would have been elected. Her insuperable lead was not really that big. She lost,Trump won.

How do I feel about that? I'm not happy about most of Trump's policies and his contempt for democracy. I'm glad he's gone.

Hillary would have been corrupt,but competent.

I guess that's better than corrupt and Incompetent, but she might have started a shooting war that killed untold numbers.

Trump never did.

Yes,Trump has shown, UNBELIEVABLE bad judgement about almost everything. He commited incitement to insurrection for God's sake,he deserves prison for inciting murder. Trump is worse than the Clinton's, that doesn't make them good,The future horrors of a Trump presidency were not entirely foreseeable. Hillary had a track record of veniality and corruption,she was a weak candidate,The DNC stepped on the scale to guarantee she got the nomination,it was never in doubt,that's corruption.

Just because Trump turned out to be so bad doesn't give Hillary a pass on everything.

I voted for Biden as a lesser evil,he's as Danni says,cut from the same cloth as the Clinton's,not a ringing endorsement for me.

I think Biden is a far better person than either of the Clinton's,I hope he has grown and learned much in his long public career.

I genuinely hope that he becomes the progressive leader he could be.

Biden is obviously a good and decent man,one who cares for all Americans,red or blue.

The future is better with Trump Gone.

Maybe we should ask the Pope to canonize both the Clinton's,you guys sure seem to see no wrong in them. If I'm overly harsh,you surely are overly gushing, and in awe of, people who are trash.

Clinton lied as much as Trump,just more believably,he lied under oath and was impeached, rightfully so,by Congress. He should have been removed. Just as Trump should have been removed.

If he had been,no Iraq war, probably no 911 at all. No precedent of the supreme court stealing elections. No "compassionate conservatisim".

All the war crimes of Bush Cheney would have never happened.

Think about that next time you feel all lovey about Bill and Hill.

That selfish ------- helped degrade the rule of law and accountability for elected officials.

He should have stepped down when impeached.

It would have made Trump's rise less likely.

At the very least Clinton's stepping down would have WEAKENED the presidency,which could only be a good thing. We need a weaker executive,and Congress needs to reclaim their rightfully equal powers. A weakened executive would have placed a greater check on Trump and his --------.

He would not have been able to subvert the system as easily.

The law applies EQUALLY,regardless of party or person. Trump used the imperial presidency to try to be an emperor in fact.

We need to weaken the president,all presidents;

Not just the ones we hate.

I always thought a parliamentary system was better than our own. The executive and legislative intertwined. When the ruling party loses the confidence of the majority the executive is gone immediately. More viable parties, proportional representation,no winner take all --------. The parties form coalitions to determine who leads. No president,certainly not the king like presidents we have. If the prime minister is Incompetent or loses the support of the majority based on proportional representation of all parties he is gone the same day.

Much better system,ours frankly sucks and is undemocratic as hell.

I'm so glad you know what I was hoping,Snoof.

Actually, I wanted Bernie to win the nomination.

Are you old enough to actually remember the Clinton presidency? If so you seem to forget a lot.

He sold out Americans with NAFTA,and repealed Glass Steagal, he led directly to Citizens United, the framework was built for that decision by the whole unleashing of the "free market" by the bank's speculations,after the curbs on bank trading were removed. It all led to a general acceptance of money in politics and no limits on finance and speculation by everyone.

If the bank's and corporations had been held in check by strong antitrust laws Citizens United would have been unthinkable.

The general weakening of antitrust laws made Citizens United inevitable in some form.

We did dodge a bullet in 2016,but the bullet we got hit by was equally bad, or worse.

At this point our system is In tatters.

The next Trump, and there will be one,will finish the job.

As you said, Trumpism is not gone,it's waiting.

#124 Not treat the primary like it's a formality. Not obviously favor one candidate.

Try someone new, stop repeating the hits of yesteryear. Get rid of superdelegates completely. New leadership of the DNC.

As far as reaching the bombthrowers on the right. Abandon abortion as a central plank of the party. More economic policies that favor the poor and lower middle class. Stop shaming people for things they're not ashamed of.

Actually try to bring jobs back that have been lost. Fight right to work laws, raise corporate tax rates, single payer healthcare.

Stop acting like the party is only for wealthy donors and everyone else is expendible.

I sure as hell didn't want Clinton. I didn't want Trump either. I wasn't really thrilled about Bernie,there was no cult of personality there for me. I liked his proposed policies better than Hillary's,or Trump's.

When Bernie lost the primary,I just didn't feel that I was going to be represented by either candidate,I knew and hated Hillary,and decided to vote for Trump instead,not really knowing what he would do.

If Hillary was not the candidate,I never would have voted for Trump. I thought the DNC fixed it for Hillary, so I decided to stop the steal.

Martin O'Malley,anyone but Hillary, and I never would have voted republican. Hell,any republican but Trump and I never would have voted republican. Trump was new,he ran to the left of Hillary on many issues. I sensed he was lying,but hated what the DNC had done and wanted to scotch their triumph.

Hillary was shrill, abrasive,and overly certain of her victory,she needed to be taken down a few pegs. And she was. Trump turned out worse than I expected,but not hugely so.

I guess in some sense I was being a bombthrower too. That's why I feel guilty. But I still don't think Hillary would have made a good president, probably less destructive than Trump to be sure.

Half the country did the same thing. Maybe you should rethink your love of Hillary,maybe we saw something you missed.

At any rate,picking the least popular democrat in the nation to run for president because it was her "turn" was stupid.

Martin O'Malley could have beaten Trump,he had no baggage. Hillary was nothing but baggage,and divisiveness. That's why she lost.

Don't blame me,blame the DNC,they acted like thugs and paid the price,we all did.

I was done with the Democrats at that point. The whole superdelegate thing seemed counterproductive to me and antidemocratic.

I was wrong,hugely so,my family was pissed.

They wanted me to hold my nose and vote for the candidate, as they called her. They couldn't bring themselves to call her by name. But they all voted for her even though I knew they hated her as much as I did.

They were smarter about Trump for sure,my dad called him " that ------- idiot" he was really pissed when I voted Trump,he is a lifelong democrat from Illinois.

The rest of my family just thought I was being reactionary and stupid,and they were largely right.

My dad is a big believer in what he calls "machine politics", he always votes democrat,except for Obama,he couldn't vote for a black president,that was a bridge too far for him,I guess? I voted for Obama twice,but the second time I was less excited about it.

Confidence, what's that? I think I've heard of it somewhere,but have no personal experience with it. I was being a bombthrower, the problem is I'm not alone. There are many others like me.

We need re-education,or all hope is lost. The depraved will destroy our world. I'm a warning to you and everyone else.

Don't ---- on people their whole lives, they get vicious and you won't like the outcome,it will come back to hurt you as well.

Even the dumbasses need to be able to survive,take away their hopes and they will destroy yours as well.

The Pied Piper of Mar a Lago is a warning for us all.

"And they made their mortar from slime"

Big changes are always top down or bottom up.

The vast middle are mostly spectators,in the March of change.

Good jobs for dumbasses. That's what stops dictatorships.

No,unions are not the problem. "Right to work laws" are. Unions help people survive who are not superstars. They help the rank and file have something more than bare survival, at best.

Why are so many doing without so a few can be extra loaded beyond their needs, or even beyond their contributions?

Republicans are worse,but mainstream Dems really don't give ---- about the poor. Less than $50,000 a year and you're invisible to both parties unless you're "of color" a woman or gay.

This country has a big problem, I'm not it, I'm old and on my way down, it's the young with no hope, I see it every day. They want things, material things. They work hard and can't make the rent,let alone save for tommorow. That's the problem. The rich holding the young and the dumb, back from a satisfying life. I know,I hear all about education, education, education,until it's coming out of my ears,but what about the ones who don't learn? What about the ones who can't learn?

Prison? We've already got 2,000,000 people in prison now. The prisons are packed.

Low functioning people need dignity, respect, and adequate income. Without that they become very dangerous to the more highly functioning majority.

A high minimum wage would go far toward stopping the Trump's of the world. That's why the repubs are so dead set against it. That and their insufferable cheapness. Keeping a large percentage of the population in poverty while others prosper from their labors is a recipe for insurrection or worse, revolution.

Universal healthcare also makes the poor uppity,because that don't need the boss to see a doctor when they need to. It makes for less frightened and docile workers.

That's bad for the elites,they want frightened slaves. Not dignified workers aware of their own worth and unwilling to be exploited.

Not everyone can be a superstar,most people are of modest attainments,they deserve dignity and a reasonable income and some level of security.

Our society as currently structured denies them this,more so every year. I have seen this myself as the years have gone by. It's harder to make it now than it ever was before in my lifetime.

I hope this helps.