Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, February 22, 2021

The U.S. death toll from the coronavirus topped 500,000 on Sunday, according to an NBC News tally " a milestone that underscores the grave threat the virus still poses nationwide even as more Americans get vaccinated. The coronavirus has claimed the lives of more than 2,462,000 people worldwide, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. The death toll in the U.S. is the highest in the world, even though the country has less than 5 percent of the global population.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Sad milestone that arguably never had to be. Prayers to all those who've lost loved ones or suffered health issues themselves over this last year and much hope that the end of this pandemic is getting closer much sooner rather than later.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-02-21 03:58 PM | Reply

Thank you for this posting, Tony, and the way in which you've done it.

#2 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-02-22 06:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

500,000+ real people with real families & real friends in real pain. God & goddess bless.

#3 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-22 06:44 AM | Reply

I have trouble looking into the eyes in pictures. It makes me cry because my own pain is still too close to the surface:

Dan Rather @DanRather

It's impossible to comprehend 500,000 deaths. I read about those who have died. Look into their eyes in pictures. I start with 1 person, then 2, then more, imagining a chain of pain so long it feels unending. To those who've lost loved ones, I send deep condolences. I see you.
4:58 PM Feb 21, 2021

#4 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-22 06:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The inept and criminally negligent COVID response by the orange tub of goo should permanently disqualify him from office.

People with an ounce of common sense should run from his incompetence.

#5 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-02-22 06:58 AM | Reply

Unfortunately the GOP was wrong. COVID didn't disappear when Biden took office. (As those of us with a brain knew it wouldn't.)

#6 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-02-22 07:26 AM | Reply

My mom insists that this number is fake and that nurses and doctors are lying about the cause of death in order to make money. So my question to her is, "What did these 500,000 people die of then, and shouldn't we be concerned that there's a epidemic of heart attacks or cancer or car accidents or whatever it is?".
She, of course, has no answer to this.

#7 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2021-02-22 08:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Thank you for this posting, Tony, and the way in which you've done it.

All kudos go to RCade for his poignant editing skills. Well done sir.

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-02-22 08:57 AM | Reply

"What did these 500,000 people die of then, and shouldn't we be concerned that there's a epidemic of heart attacks or cancer or car accidents or whatever it is?".

Not trying to minimize the covid stuff here as I know you liberals will get rabid over anyone proposing an opposing view, but just with influenza alone, up to 61K would die in any year. 665K die from Heart disease every year. Now combine that with covid in a year and you can easily show that some people would have died anyway, it just so happens they had covid.

I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous.

#9 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 09:33 AM | Reply

This has been posted ad nauseum during this last year, but here goes again. Maybe Boaz will internalize it this time.

Since Covid Arrived: Half a Million More U.S. Deaths Than Normal

Deaths nationwide were 20 percent higher than normal from March 15, 2020, to Jan. 30, 2021. Our numbers may be an undercount since recent death statistics are still being updated.

Our analysis examines deaths from all causes - not just confirmed cases of coronavirus - beginning when the virus took hold in the United States last spring. That allows comparisons that do not depend on the accuracy of cause-of-death reporting, and includes deaths related to disruptions caused by the pandemic as well as the virus itself. Epidemiologists refer to fatalities in the gap between the observed and normal numbers of deaths as "excess deaths."

Public health researchers use such methods to measure the impact of catastrophic events when official measures of mortality are flawed.

So yet again statistically, the number of deaths attributed as related to Covid are likely undercounted based on recent historical averages of annual death totals. This isn't subjective, it's simply math.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-02-22 09:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous.

#9 | POSTED BY BOAZ

No you don't. Think that is.

And misleading us to believe that you can think is also disingenuous.

Bigly.

#11 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-22 10:02 AM | Reply

That's a long way from saying Covid was the cause Tony..

#12 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 10:04 AM | Reply

I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous.

#9 | Posted by boaz

But it isn't disingenuous. The fact is the US death rate is statistically solid year over year - look into it. COVID killed these people. The actual US lifespan dropped a full year in 2020.

#14 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-02-22 10:16 AM | Reply

That's a long way from saying Covid was the cause Tony..

Geeze Boaz, I know that you're not ignorant on how statistical analysis works.

Public health researchers use such methods to measure the impact of catastrophic events when official measures of mortality are flawed.

As Covid-19 cases have spread across the country, the geographic patterns of abnormal mortality statistics have followed. Excess deaths have peaked three times, so far, as have deaths from Covid-19.

There are now excess deaths in every state, with surges in states like Arizona, Alabama, California and Georgia fueling record death tolls in recent weeks.

I know that you're familiar with cause and effect. Excess deaths must be attributed to an irregular source because they're anomalies in and of themselves. What is that source? Why do excess deaths follow spikes in Covid infections? Can you point to any other pathogen or sickness that caused a spike in deaths far above normal totals other than Covid over the last year?

#15 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-02-22 10:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not trying to minimize the covid stuff here..."

As he proceeds to attempt to minimize the "covid stuff".

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-22 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Boaz is callous to death and suffering. Combat does that to people. Why he's minimizing covid's death toll is not clear. Fear of loss of control? Dear leader,can't be wrong you know? Who knows? The fact is we have half a million extra deaths in one year. Covid is the cause.

#18 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-02-22 10:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"just with influenza alone, up to 61K would die in any year."

No, that's the outlier. The average is 31K.

Now compare that the ~620K we'll have by mid-March. That's twenty years of flu.

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-02-22 11:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Boaz.
Acknowledge that you understand the fallacy you presented.

#20 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 11:23 AM | Reply

One thing - the bit about the US leads in deaths and cases. We also need to be honest about some things when we look at the stat.

- The lesser developed nations (think India, Brazil, etc.) simply do not have the testing capacity or the same treatment setups. People are far more likely to get it and not report it and just die at home. (For example for an ambulance or care you often have to pre-pay in these countries.) Let's also be honest a lot of American's aren't getting tested when they are sick with it mostly to "stick it to lib-ruhls" and it is "just the flew".
- There are improperly documented deaths still happening in the US so let's be sure that is also a factor in these countries.
- Also the resources for helping minimize the spread are think in these countries as well.

Let's also look at a similar Western nations:

- The EU is roughly comparable to the US in population and much more densely populated overall. The stats in the EU are much better than the US in almost all regards. Over the summer they had it virtually eliminated. It was with letting up on travel and other restriction that they spread and worsened it again.
- Sweden's experiment has turned into a miserable failure as it always was.
- The UK (no longer in the EU) has some pretty miserable stats much like the US. They also had incompetent leadership that didn't help BUT their leadership still did more than ours.
- It is worth noting the people in these countries are just as fed up with Covid restriction on roughly equal proportions to the US. In other words some still want to do what is necessary and others are crying about shutdowns and lockdowns.

#21 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-02-22 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The fact is we have half a million extra deaths in one year. Covid is the cause.

See? It's this stupidity I cant deal with. Are you really that ignorant?

You are the problem with this nation.

#23 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 12:33 PM | Reply

If you can't wrap your head around that simple truth in the post that you referenced, there's no point in talking to you.
You'll find that stat on the CDC website.
It is TRUTH.
It is not arguable.
It is what is called a FACT.

#24 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 12:40 PM | Reply

What killed an extra 500,000 deaths this year (as opposed to last year)?

How much extra money do you think doctors and nurses (who are dying of COVID-19 every day, BTW) are making by lying about it?

Why do you think so ill of your fellow human beings (assuming you are one)?

#25 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2021-02-22 12:41 PM | Reply

500,000 dead - so many preventable - and Boaz doesn't deflect, he goes for all out denial.

#26 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 01:53 PM | Reply

I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous.
#9 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Well you're wrong.
It's no more disingenuous than when you said
"Just with influenza alone, up to 61K would die in any year. 665K die from Heart disease every year."

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 01:58 PM | Reply

The fact is we have half a million extra deaths in one year. Covid is the cause.
See? It's this stupidity I cant deal with. Are you really that ignorant?
You are the problem with this nation.
#23 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Then what is the cause if not COVID-19?
Hello???

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 02:00 PM | Reply

Then what is the cause if not COVID-19?
Hello???

#28 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Why, the democrat deep state and the lamestream media, who else?

#29 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2021-02-22 02:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's not 500K extra deaths.

#30 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:07 PM | Reply

Sorry, Yav, it's not, it's how it's being presented. Having covid, when you may have already been terminally ill with heart disease is...well, not covid only related. It's not the same.

#31 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:10 PM | Reply

"Having covid, when you may have already been terminally ill with heart disease is...well, not covid only related. It's not the same."

Boaz, you said "Just with influenza alone, up to 61K would die in any year."
You're telling us exactly zero of those people had heart conditions?

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 03:13 PM | Reply

Heart disease kills 600K a year. So someone who was going to die anyway of heart disease happens to get Covid and you blame Covid? Oh yea, it's politically expedient for you to blame covid and it gets your numbers up so you can blame Republicans.

#33 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:15 PM | Reply

#32,

WTF are you talking about Snoofy?

#34 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:15 PM | Reply

Repeating the same idiocy doesn't make it true.
You've been told.
You refuse to hear.
Go ---- yourself.

#35 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 03:16 PM | Reply

We're all going to die eventually, Boaz.

"So someone who was going to die anyway of heart disease"

You don't know what they were going to die of.
If someone with heart disease gets the flu and dies, what did they die of?
You tell us, Boaz, M.D.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 03:17 PM | Reply

Harsh.
Sorry, Yav, it's not, it's how it's being presented. Having covid, when you may have already been terminally ill with heart disease is...well, not covid only related. It's not the same.

500,000 more people died than would have. That's the number. All due to COVID. Would some have died next year without COVID? Maybe. But the year-to-year death rate is up 500,000K because of COVID. The life expectancy for all Americans dropped 1 year in the first half of 2020, and 3 years for Black Americans - due to COVID deaths.

This isn't debatable. This isn't in question. If you can't understand basic concepts like this and you refuse to understand, then no kind words should be directed your way. You're making an obstinate choice to not believe the obvious truth.

www.cdc.gov
www.cdc.gov

#37 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Total predicted number of excess deaths since 2/1/2020 across the United States:
478,927 - 594,204

So it's likely the 500K is an undercount.

#38 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 03:24 PM | Reply

WTF are you talking about Snoofy?
#34 | POSTED BY BOAZ

I'm talking about those 61K people you say die of flu, none of them had heart disease too?
Because by your rules, those shouldn't be counted as flu deaths if they were going to die of heart disease eventually.

But you clearly stated them as flu deaths.
So, you need to show me that zero of them had heart disease, dementia, diabetes, etc. etc.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You're making an obstinate choice to not believe the obvious truth."

It's a tough pill to swallow to admit to yourself that you supported people and policies that led to the deaths of half a million Americans in a single year. If he weren't such a bell end 99% of the time you could almost have sympathy for the predicament in which he finds himself now.

#40 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2021-02-22 03:39 PM | Reply

This isn't debatable. This isn't in question.

Actually, it is. Most of those people just happened to have covid. And covid has a 95% survival rate. Unless you happen to be elderly or have another disease.

You are reading the data wrong, to only support your point of view.

#41 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:43 PM | Reply

Then what is the cause if not COVID-19?

The other disease or ailment they had?

Now I'm not saying covid hasnt killed anyone on it's own. I'm sure it has.

But alot of those deaths, if examined correctly and without an agenda, would be shown to have other causes than just happening to have covid.

#42 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:44 PM | Reply

If someone with heart disease gets the flu and dies, what did they die of?
You tell us, Boaz, M.D.

#36 | Posted by snoofy

Actually, that's what I'm asking you.

#43 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 03:45 PM | Reply

But alot of those deaths, if examined correctly and without an agenda, would be shown to have other causes than just happening to have covid.
#42 | POSTED BY BOAZ

What evidence can you point that indicates the scientists are NOT objectively examining covid related deaths?

#44 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-02-22 04:00 PM | Reply

Actually, that's what I'm asking you.
#43 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Well, you said, 61K people died of flu.

Unless you're saying zero of those people had heart conditions, which is obviously not the case, then when they died of flu, we don't say they died of a heart condition.

Thus, when we say 500,000 people died of COVID-19, some of them had heart conditions too. Just like the 61,000 who died from flu had heart conditions.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 04:12 PM | Reply

But alot of those deaths, if examined correctly and without an agenda, would be shown to have other causes than just happening to have covid.
#42 | POSTED BY BOAZ

No they would not.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 04:13 PM | Reply

#44,

Doctors can look into whatever they want. No one would look at data like that because it doesn fall into a certain ideology. It would lessen the "world is falling apart" narrative being pushed. You wouldnt be able to make people sacrifice rights.

Only opposing views look at things like that.

#47 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 04:14 PM | Reply

"Doctors can look into whatever they want. No one would look at data like that because it doesn fall into a certain ideology."

You're completely out of line, Boaz.

You have no freaking clue what you're even talking about.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 04:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No they would not.

Actually, they would.

#49 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 04:17 PM | Reply

You're completely out of line, Boaz.

Out of line? Why? Because it's not what a liberal would say? That I'm not accepting the the narrative whole? That I DARE to question it?

#50 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-22 04:18 PM | Reply

without an agenda

What's the agenda Boaz?

Why inflate the COVID death count? For what purpose?

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-22 04:20 PM | Reply

"Out of line? Why?"

Because of your deeply flawed reasoning.
Let's see how far out of line you are:
Do you question 61k flu deaths too?
Or do you accept that number?

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 04:30 PM | Reply

"Only half a million? Wake me up when we hit a couple of million." - Mythbimbo

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2021-02-22 04:33 PM | Reply

"Why? Because it's not what a liberal would say?"

It's out of line because it's not what a doctor or public health expert would say.

"That I'm not accepting the the narrative whole?"

You're changing the narrative mid-stream.

Those 61k flu deaths include people that had diabetes, heart disease, asthma, and so on.
The issue here stems from the fact that you apparently didn't know that.

You had what you thought was an "A Ha!" moment, because so many of those COVID-19 deaths had other disease conditions as well.
However, the reason your "A Ha!" moment isn't valid, is because most everybody who dies had some kind of underlying conditions as well.

For example, all those flu deaths you cited. That number doesn't mean 61k people were in perfect health, then died of flu.
It means 61k people -- in varying states of health with zero, one, or many other health conditions -- all died of influenza.

You can either choose to accept that I'm right and you're wrong, or you can keep being a stubborn ass about it.

But you'll never, ever be right about this.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-22 04:40 PM | Reply

Say I have colon cancer and my oncologist says I might have 6 months to get my affairs in order before it takes me. But during my last visit to the clinic I contract Covid sitting next to a asymptomatic anti-masker in the waiting room and succumb to the ravages of the disease within weeks. What actually killed me, Bozo? The better question I might ask, with all the implied vitriol the printed word allows me, is...WTF is wrong with you?

#55 | Posted by dutch46 at 2021-02-22 04:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Out of line? Why? Because it's not what a liberal would say? That I'm not accepting the the narrative whole? That I DARE to question it?

I gave you links to the CDC website that spelled this all out and you either didn't bother, didn't are enough to bother, didn't want an actual discussion, or just wanted to be an ass. Your answers were provided.

#56 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 06:02 PM | Reply

*care enough

#57 | Posted by YAV at 2021-02-22 06:17 PM | Reply

Thank you, President Biden. That was comforting. The candles are beautiful.

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-22 06:22 PM | Reply

I'd like a photo of that image of the WH with the candles, the black bunting and the two American flags. I find the image reassuring and hopeful.

#59 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-22 06:27 PM | Reply

ut just with influenza alone, up to 61K would die in any year. 665K die from Heart disease every year. Now combine that with covid in a year and you can easily show that some people would have died anyway, it just so happens they had covid.
I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous.

#9 | POSTED BY BOAZ

There's a legal question that pops up-Somebody falls off the roof of a 40 story building-definitely gonna die when he hits the ground.

As he passes a 4th story window, somebody deliberately shoots him through the heart,killing him instantly.
Would the shooter be convicted of murder, given the falling guy would have died anyways?
yes he would.
Same with covid.

#60 | Posted by northguy3 at 2021-02-22 06:49 PM | Reply

Boaz sounds like one of those guys working for the Chinese government trying to make covid sound like the sniffles so China doesn't get sued into oblivion.

What's your favorite-sweet and sour or General Tso's chicken, Boaz?

#61 | Posted by northguy3 at 2021-02-22 06:55 PM | Reply

"I think to say covid is the only cause that killed these people is a little disingenuous."

OK, Dr. Boaz. So now you know more than the doctors treating these people. What a complete and utter a*****e! What if one of those victims was a relative of yours? Think about the things you post before you post them you nasty -----!

#63 | Posted by danni at 2021-02-23 05:24 AM | Reply

I think to be a survivor who lost a loved one to COVID and who now reads some a*****e's comment that they didn't die of COVID even though the doctors said they did would be an insult to a terrible injury. COVID isn't politics, it's a pandemic that we are all having to deal with. You can pretend it isn't as serious as it is but then you are just ignoring the scientific facts to support your distorted view of reality. It is rather sad when the facts of life have to be distorted to support your own twisted view of the world. And BOAZ, yes you are seriously twisted. I'm sort of glad I don't actually know you, I am pretty sure I wouldn't like you.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2021-02-23 05:49 AM | Reply

Damn Boaz, I hope you brought plenty of mustard for all those pretzels you're tying.

#65 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2021-02-23 06:42 AM | Reply

"So someone who was going to die (in 5 years) anyway of heart disease happens to get Covid (and died today) and you blame Covid? "

Yes.

Next.

Disingenuous, thy name is Boaz.

(Parentheses are mine... for clarification)

#66 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-23 12:54 PM | Reply

"Out of line? Why? "

While it's obvious that Boaz has no clue I don't think he is "out of line".

He is perfectly in line with Trumpy's lies. Boaz believes in Trumpy's lies. And he doesn't want Trumpy's reign of terror to be over. It was just getting fun! So he continues to spread Trumpy's manure around in the hopes that he might fertilize and maybe instigate just a little more Trumpy insurrection.

Like a good little Trumptilian with no brain and a heart that is two sizes too small and no sense of history.

#67 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-23 01:04 PM | Reply

Trumptilians need to make up their q-tarded minds.

Are they outraged that Covid was underreported or are that outraged that it was over reported?

Poor dears. They have been lied to so much they can't tell whether they are coming or going!

Maybe I can help.

You lost. Bigly.

You are going.

#68 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-23 01:11 PM | Reply

"It would lessen the "world is falling apart" narrative"

You don't get the feeling that world is falling apart? Not even after we failed to have a peaceful transfer of power for the very first time in American history and even after we attacked and ransacked our own capitol?

You know Texas could lessen that feeling a bit by turning the power and the water back on and by not suddenly turning into a third world country on us.

#69 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-23 01:17 PM | Reply

"So someone who was going to die (in 5 years) anyway of heart disease happens to get Covid (and died today) and you blame Covid? "

How many old folks should we subtract from the 9/11 deaths?

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-02-23 01:20 PM | Reply

"Having covid, when you may have already been terminally ill with heart disease"

If I run over that person with my car, what was her cause of death? Heart disease, or me?

And if me, will I get leniency because of her age?

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-02-23 01:25 PM | Reply

Corollary: Can you murder someone already in hospice?

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-02-23 01:26 PM | Reply

Corollary: Can you murder someone already in hospice?
#72 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Yes. And you can be charged with murder as well.

#73 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-02-23 01:50 PM | Reply

Looks like Boaz pulled the old

Cut-N-Run

But he will be back soon, in a new thread, peddling the same old lies.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-23 02:01 PM | Reply

Kudos to the orange diaper sniper for a job well done.

images.dailykos.com

#75 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-02-23 10:12 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2021 World Readable

Drudge Retort