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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, February 24, 2021

Today, the 50 members of the Democratic caucus represent 56.5% of the 50-state population compared to only 43.5% for the chamber's 50 Republicans, meaning Democrats have tens of millions more constituents but the same number of seats.

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Stephen Wolf @PoliticsWolf

NEW: We calculated 3 decades of the Senate "popular vote" & how many people each party represented. The results are astonishing: The GOP hasn't won more votes or represented more people than Dems since the 1990s but has run the Senate > half the time since

MFA:

Republican minority rule in the Senate has already had far-reaching consequences. Five Supreme Court justices (and many more lower court judges) were confirmed by senates where the GOP majority was elected with less popular support than Democrats. Those right-wing hardliners are now poised to use their control over the court to attack voting rights and preserve Republican gerrymanders while striking down progressive policies. This same minority rule has also paved the way for massive tax cuts for the rich under George W. Bush and Donald Trump that have facilitated an explosion in economic inequality.

#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-24 08:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So what's the solution? Amend the Constitution to effectively abolish the Senate? I'm sure that will happen sometime never.

Encourage people in the less populous states to have more kids and people in the more populous states to have fewer so it will be more balanced in the future? Hmm, that might backfire.

Oh, I know! We could relocate people.

#2 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-24 11:30 AM | Reply

As a start we can grant DC and Puerto Rico statehood.

#3 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-24 12:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"As a start we can grant DC and Puerto Rico statehood.
#3 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

Good idea, but don't stop there. Allow Texas and Calipornia to secede and NYS to secede from the beeg assple.

#4 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-02-24 01:31 PM | Reply

Back when there were only 13 states with pretty evenly distributed populations. States being equal made sense.

Now you got a bunch of states that are no more than wastelands, sitting at the same table as states that are economic powerhouses.

You got Los Angeles county with a larger population than over half the states in the nation.

Problem is. Doesn't matter if you're a Dakota or Montana or Nebraska or Alabama Or Mississippi or any other failed red state.

You're not going to forfeit your power and leverage.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

DC and Puerto Rico statehood.

Hawaii and Alaska were added in 1959.

Back when Americans were (apparently) more reasonable.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 01:51 PM | Reply

6

more reasonable?

Alaska was added for the same reason the democrats want to add DC and PR.

Because they want more power.

But now Alaska is red....

How long before PR would be red?

I can't imagine ever giving DC their own state.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-24 02:54 PM | Reply

Admitting new states to the union based on how their inclusion affects the balance of political power between two major parties? Gee, wasn't this tried before...? How did that turn out?

#8 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-24 02:58 PM | Reply

How long before PR would be red?

With Trump punting paper towel at them?

Probably a few weeks.

#9 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 03:05 PM | Reply

Admitting new states to the union based on how their inclusion affects the balance of political power between two major parties?

That's exactly how it would be viewed.

100%

Maybe the Hawaii Alaska compromise was agreed upon by allowing conservatives to take Alaska and moderates Hawaii.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 03:07 PM | Reply

Hawaii is hardly moderate.

#11 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-24 07:02 PM | Reply

Hawaii is hardly moderate.
#11 | POSTED BY BOAZ

You believe it to be conservative?

#12 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 07:08 PM | Reply

Is any blue state moderate, Boaz?
Is any Democrat moderate? Is any Republican not?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-24 07:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is any Democrat moderate?

Yes, there are plenty of southern democrats.

#14 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-24 07:10 PM | Reply

there are plenty of southern democrats.

So it's geographical?

Further south and East you go the more conservative you are and the further north and west you go the more liberal you are?

Wait. No. That doesn't explain the Dakotas. Idaho. Montana. Etc etc etc.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-24 07:19 PM | Reply

Money and connections to the elites determine who's liberal or conservative in many cases.

NY is liberal in the great cities and redneck in the sticks. California the same. Oregon and Washington,it's kind of honeycombed depending on if the economy is based on Tech or extractive industries. Mostly the richer states are liberal and the poor redneck States cleave Repub.

VA,my home state,used to be very Conservative,now it's quite liberal.because rich urban people moved in,Boaz better beware,NC is next,the slicky boy libruls are coming to take his hillbilly paradise away. LOL!

#16 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-02-24 11:35 PM | Reply

At the rate that red states are losing people to Blue States it's only a matter of time till Wyoming is representing only it's Senators their families and employees of the aforementioned.

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2021-02-24 11:53 PM | Reply

I know some people can't wrap their heads around it, but everything goes in cycles. Places that are losing people now may be booming in the future, and vice versa.

#18 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 04:38 AM | Reply

This inequity is not sustainable in a democracy, and no amount of "cycles" of "booming" and "vice versa" is going to fix it:

"The Senate's structure did not come about as a reflection of some high-minded ideal but rather was a compromise between self-interested delegates from small states seeking to protect their power and delegates from larger states who favored equal representation based on population. Yet even when the Senate was originally established, the largest state only had 13 times as many people as the smallest state. That difference has ballooned over the ensuing centuries, with California now at 68 times the size of Wyoming."

#19 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-25 06:13 AM | Reply

" California now at 68 times the size of Wyoming."

Still not seeing how giving statehood to a city in way helps to redress this problem.

#20 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 02:28 PM | Reply

20

good point. DC is under 700Kin population...and would clearly be over represented in the Senate.

PR is just around 3 million.....also be over represented in the Senate.

So what's the logic behind adding 2 more states that would clearly marginalize California voters even more?

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:14 PM | Reply

"So what's the logic behind adding 2 more states that would clearly marginalize California voters even more?"

It would marginalize every other voter "even more."

But, it would stop marginalizing DC and PR voters, is the reason.

Also, "No Taxation Without Representation."

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 04:17 PM | Reply

I would support statehood for PR.

Not for DC.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:17 PM | Reply

-It would marginalize every other voter "even more."

are you for it or not?

-But, it would stop marginalizing DC and PR voters, is the reason.

annex PR with Florida and annex DC with Maryland.

The poor voters deserve representation. There you have it.

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:19 PM | Reply

"good point. DC is under 700Kin population...and would clearly be over represented in the Senate."

By design, the Senate is supposed to be what you're calling over-represented and under-represented. It appoints a fixed number of representatives regardless of the population of the State.

Adding any new state reduces the representation of the existing states in the Senate, due to the way math works.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 04:19 PM | Reply

-Also, "No Taxation Without Representation."

Oh, I forgot.........---- them.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:20 PM | Reply

"are you for it or not?"

I'm for DC statehood.
I'm not so sure about PR, Guam, etc.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 04:20 PM | Reply

-By design, the Senate is supposed to be what you're calling over-represented

Then STFU

#28 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:21 PM | Reply

Eberly, are you angry because your wife left you, or is the problem that she won't?

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 04:25 PM | Reply

I can't imagine ever giving DC their own state.

#7 | Posted by eberly

Why not? We have TWO dakotas and they're both empty but get 4 senators.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 04:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

30

they were added for different reasons.

Westward expansion, the routine slaughter and land grabbing from native americans, etc.

statehood was a natural next step.

DC doesn't exist for that purpose. It does this country nothing to add it as a state, other than to generate 2 more democratic votes in the senate.

have another reason.

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:56 PM | Reply

Snoofy, do you like ---- because your pastor raped you or because your dad told you he never loved you and split?

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 04:59 PM | Reply

"It does this country nothing to add it as a state, other than to generate 2 more democratic votes in the senate."

Well if that's your threshold:
What did adding Alaska and Hawai'i do for this country?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 04:59 PM | Reply

If PR becomes a state West Virginia should go back to being part of Virginia.

#34 | Posted by Tor at 2021-02-25 05:03 PM | Reply

33

National defense, and oil (also related to national defense)

#35 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:05 PM | Reply

How so? We couldn't build bases and get oil from Alaska, before making it a state?

Hawaii wasn't a state when Pearl Harbor got bombed, so what you're saying makes no sense.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:08 PM | Reply

Guam is full of Defense stuff, and it's not a state, so
"National Defense"
you just pulled out of your ass, Ebelry.

But hey, at least you know the Magic Words That Make Republicans Stop Thinking!

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:10 PM | Reply

36

read about those states and they came to be if you want to.

I'm just telling you there were reasons and justifications that people accepted and supported when we added those states.

You have none of that now.

#38 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:12 PM | Reply

-the Magic Words That Make Republicans Stop Thinking!

right...and they don't work on anyone else. never....no way.

#39 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:15 PM | Reply

If Wyoming gets 2 Senators, by what possible logic is Washington DC denied 2 Senators? Only dishonest, anti-democracy logic.

#40 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-02-25 05:15 PM | Reply

40

like I said before...annex DC into Maryland. Everybody deserves their 2 senators.

#41 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:16 PM | Reply

But... why doesn't DC deserve their own Senators?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:19 PM | Reply

Are you serious?

Why? Because Wyoming doesn't deserve theirs.

At the time, making Wyoming a state along with all other Western States, had purpose.

A purpose people accepted.

So far, all you dolts can manage is "But..But....Wyoming".

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:22 PM | Reply

I'm just telling you there were reasons and justifications that people accepted and supported when we added those states.
You have none of that now.
#38 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You do have that now.
If D.C. were a State, D.C.'s Governor would have been able to call up the National Guard, to defend The Capitol on January 6.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:23 PM | Reply

At the time, making Wyoming a state along with all other Western States, had purpose.
#43 | POSTED BY EBERLY

One of those purposes being that the people who live there get represented in the Republic.
That purpose still applies to D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, and the rest of our territorial holdings.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:24 PM | Reply

44

then go with that, good luck.

Back in 1889, people in Ohio believed it was in their best interest to make Wyoming a State.

I'm generalizing a bit that obviously was the sentiment at the time....same with all State additions after the Civil War ( a huge reason for more states at the time) west of the Mississippi.

Self-interest. That's why.

Sell an Ohioan or a Iowan why DC should become a 51st state.

have at it.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:28 PM | Reply

You said you support statehood for PR.
Sell that.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:30 PM | Reply

-One of those purposes being that the people who live there get represented in the Republic.

Yes, but that's because those soon to be states were occupied by former residents of Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana and we wanted them to settle there.

But it still wasn't a very good reason by itself. It's not like everyone in Ohio suddenly started giving a ---- about someone living in the Black hills their representation in Washington, DC. They cared about themselves more.

#48 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:32 PM | Reply

If Wyoming gets 2 Senators, by what possible logic is Washington DC denied 2 Senators? Only dishonest, anti-democracy logic.

POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2021-02-25 05:15 PM | REPLY

DC is supposed to be nuetral territory. If it were a state the perception of favouratism would wiggly it's ugly head.

#49 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-02-25 05:33 PM | Reply

47

I can't but if I wanted to, I wouldn't start with "poor people from PR deserve this or that...." Instead, I would focus on how the other 50 states would benefit.

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:34 PM | Reply

49

Don't worry....this isn't even a remotely serious idea that will come within a thousand miles of being put on the table.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:35 PM | Reply

DC is supposed to be nuetral territory. If it were a state the perception of favouratism would wiggly it's ugly head.
#49 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Perception of favoritism is why Eberly opposes it: "It does this country nothing to add it as a state, other than to generate 2 more democratic votes in the senate."

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:38 PM | Reply

Has there been any polling data ever released on this issue?

I'm sure it's been polled on...but I don't remember ever seeing anything about it.

Especially in swing states.......how do you all feel this would poll?

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:40 PM | Reply

-If it were a state the perception of favouratism would wiggly it's ugly head.

maybe...but hardly matters anymore.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:41 PM | Reply

they were added for different reasons.

Westward expansion, the routine slaughter and land grabbing from native americans, etc.

statehood was a natural next step.

DC doesn't exist for that purpose. It does this country nothing to add it as a state, other than to generate 2 more democratic votes in the senate.

have another reason.

#31 | Posted by eberly

Oh so YOU get to decide who deserves to be represented in the senate. How'd you get that job?

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 05:43 PM | Reply

Eberly: You seem to be a reasonably intelligent guy. How can you honestly dispute the fundamental fairness of making DC, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands States with all the benefits that go along with it, if the inhabitants of those lands so choose? So far all you are stating are rightwing talking points to justify representation to millions of Americans whose lives are directly impacted on a daily basis by all branches of the Federal Government.

#56 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-02-25 05:43 PM | Reply

"how do you all feel this would poll?"

Right down party lines:
"It does this country nothing to add it as a state, other than to generate 2 more democratic votes in the senate."
--Ebelry

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 05:44 PM | Reply

55

No, actually your and my senators get to decide on this.

You understand how they got their jobs....right?

Sell your senators on it..then move on to mine.

Good luck.....

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:45 PM | Reply

-How can you honestly dispute the fundamental fairness of making DC, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands States with all the benefits that go along with it, if the inhabitants of those lands so choose?

How can you honestly believe I'm disputing the fairness of it.

The fairness of it for those inhabitants is the only reason at this point to support it.

My only point is that nobody can come up with another reason....reasons that justified previous ALL statehood efforts.

self interest.....

You guys really slay me.....you really have no idea how the world works, do you?

Let me give you a hint......self-interest.

You guys act like selfishness didn't begin until the modern republican party came along.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:50 PM | Reply

Ask yourselves this question.....would you support DC, PR, and even the Virgin Islands getting 6 new senate seats if you believed it was probable 4 of them would be republican?

Go back and look at the beginning of this thread and honestly tell me what this is about. It's about the democratic party gaining representation in an unbalanced senate based on population and demographics.

You're trying balance the scales of the senate to not give the GOP an unfair advantage.

IOW, it's politics and therefore....self-interest.

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:55 PM | Reply

-Right down party lines:

I don't think so.

If you could convince democratic voters of this being in their best interests to add them as states...then it might poll well.

but if you just asked "should we give PR statehood"?

I can't imagine it would poll well.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 05:59 PM | Reply

"Ask yourselves this question.....would you support DC, PR, and even the Virgin Islands getting 6 new senate seats if you believed it was probable 4 of them would be republican?"

What's your answer?

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 06:15 PM | Reply

no

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 06:17 PM | Reply

In his Federalist No. 43, published January 23, 1788, James Madison argued that the new federal government would need authority over a national capital to provide for its own maintenance and safety.[16] Five years earlier, a band of unpaid soldiers had besieged Congress while its members were meeting in Philadelphia. Known as the Pennsylvania Mutiny of 1783, the event emphasized the need for the national government not to rely on any state for its own security.[17] en.wikipedia.org

Jan 6, 2021 showed the Federal Government cannot rely on the President for the national government's own security either.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 06:25 PM | Reply

Let me give you a hint......self-interest.

You guys act like selfishness didn't begin until the modern republican party came along.

#59 | Posted by eberly

Yeah dont blame republicans, blame HUMAN NATURE! which is on...BOTH SIDES!

It's not republicans fault that they cheat more than dems, it's because they're more HUMAN than dems!

#65 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 06:35 PM | Reply

The idea of making D.C. a state is silly, regardless of which way it tilts politically. It just a single city.

#66 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 06:36 PM | Reply

"It just a single city."

So what? Its population is bigger than all the cities in Wyoming put together. In fact its population bigger than all of Wyoming put together.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 06:47 PM | Reply

65

Ouch! Put your purse down

#68 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 07:01 PM | Reply

Ouch! Put your purse down

#68 | Posted by eberly

We're skipping deflections and insults today and jumping straight to accusing your opponent of being feminine?

You're really speeding up your usual process.

#69 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 07:20 PM | Reply

The idea of making D.C. a state is silly, regardless of which way it tilts politically. It just a single city.

#66 | Posted by sentinel

It's a city with double the population of many states. Should someone not be represented in the senate because of where in america they were born?

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 07:22 PM | Reply

69

I should try POSTING IN ALL CAPS like you.

It really gets peoples attention here.

#71 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 07:46 PM | Reply

-The idea of making D.C. a state is silly

And politically unrealistic.

#72 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-25 07:48 PM | Reply

I should try POSTING IN ALL CAPS like you.

It really gets peoples attention here.

#71 | Posted by eberly

It's the text equivilent of writing in crayon, which is the mental level of the people who need basic concepts explained to them, like looting a walmart is not on par with a fascist insurrection.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 07:52 PM | Reply

"It's a city with double the population of many states."

Where did you hear that whopper? It doesn't have double the population of any US state. It has slightly more people than two states, one of which is red and one blue.

Unless you're thinking of the DMV metropolitan area, most of which is actually outside of Washington D.C.

"Should someone not be represented in the senate because of where in america they were born?"

No one forced their parents to live there. They knew the deal.

If they became a state, how would that work? Have a mayor and a governor both ruling over a single municipality? Would they have a state Senate too?

Like Eberly said, if it's just about representation, why not absorb the residential areas back into Maryland?

#74 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 08:50 PM | Reply

Alexa, what's the population of Wyoming?
Alex's, what's the population of D.C.?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-25 09:15 PM | Reply

No one forced their parents to live there. They knew the deal.

#74 | Posted by sentinel

Oh so now people are choosing where they get born and to whom. That's a whole new level of personal accountability isn't it.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-25 09:53 PM | Reply

Population of Wyoming: 581,075
Population of Vermont: 623,251
Population of District of Columbia: 714,153

#77 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 09:57 PM | Reply

Number of municipalities in Wyoming: 99
Number of municipalities in D.C.: 1

#78 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 10:12 PM | Reply

Governor of U.S. Virgin Islands: Albert Bryan Jr.
Governor of Guam: Lourdes Aflague Leon Guerrero
Governor of Puerto Rico: Pedro Pierluisi
Governor of D.C.: Oops, doesn't exist!

#79 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-25 10:16 PM | Reply

I have a good idea. let's combine Wyoming and DC. We'll still call the state Wyoming, just so we don't offend all the cows and Cheney offspring. That'll make it fair for both sides. Deal?

Deal!

#80 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-02-25 10:22 PM | Reply

Why stop there? Let's make gerrymandering of the Senate and electoral college a regular thing that can manipulated by whichever party is in power.

#81 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-26 04:33 AM | Reply

-Population of Vermont: 623,251

Wyoming is always the dirty, red, over-represented state in the senate.....never a blue state, such as Vermont.

The solution is not to create more of the same problem....small, low populated states that are over-represented in the senate.

and with electoral college votes.

Have another reason other than to recruit more democratic party senators to DC because right now there aren't enough.

#82 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 08:17 AM | Reply

It sounds like these people are advocating to try to "break" or stultify the system in order to "prove" it's broken.

#83 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-26 09:23 AM | Reply

Have another reason other than to recruit more democratic party senators to DC because right now there aren't enough.

#82 | Posted by eberly

Have another reason to make it harder to vote other than your agenda doesn't appeal to enough people so you have to cheat.

#84 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-26 01:30 PM | Reply

#84, you utterly failed to post anything relevant to the thread or what you were replying to.

#85 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-26 03:06 PM | Reply

#84, you utterly failed to post anything relevant to the thread or what you were replying to.

#85 | Posted by sentinel

Really? You don't see the hipocrisy in saying adding states is partisan from the party that cheats every election in every way they can find?

#86 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-02-26 04:29 PM | Reply

You misspelled hypocrithy.

#87 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-02-26 05:19 PM | Reply

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