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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, February 25, 2021

Joe Walsh: It will be difficult, but with the growing constituency in the middle, all that is required to get a new party off the ground is money, effective messaging, and organizing.

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Agree, we need a middle party.

#1 | Posted by bat4255 at 2021-02-25 09:51 PM | Reply

...all that is required to get a new party off the ground is money, effective messaging, and organizing.

That would probably work better than some nobody taking a random shot at the Presidency every 4 years.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-02-25 09:58 PM | Reply

That's going to be tough...current DNC is 1980's middle of the road GOP. Current GOP is mostly far right, ignorant, evil manipulative, just short of actual Nazi.

Well maybe not even just short of Nazi.

#3 | Posted by billy_boy at 2021-02-25 10:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

There already is a third party-- didn't you guys ever read/watch The Sneetches by Dr. Seuss? It works like this:

Party #1- The Star Bellied Sneetches
Party #2- The plain bellied Sneetches
Party #3- Sylvester McMonkey McBean (the guy who makes off with all the Sneetches' money while they gop around acting like complete babies)

(insert appropriate names and nomenclature where applicable)

#4 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-02-25 10:05 PM | Reply

I support the goa'uld for our future overlords!

All hail Apophis!

All RNC and DNC will become slaves of Apophis.

On your knees you pathetic Tau'ri!

#5 | Posted by billy_boy at 2021-02-25 10:13 PM | Reply

I wish there was a third party that actually represented the rational middle.

The GOP is gone and there needs to be a viable alternative for the Repubs that aren't brain dead morons running off the fascism cliff.

And "Progressives" have started taking a few page from the fascist Repub playbook to try and coerce their favored policies.

I'm feeling somewhat lost at the moment as to who to ally myself with.

#6 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-25 11:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I wish there was a third party that actually represented the rational middle."

You want two of them?

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 12:08 AM | Reply

Agree, we need a middle party.

#1 | POSTED BY BAT4255

We have a middle party. They are called Democrats.

#8 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-02-26 12:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You want two of them?

#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Hey, if the Progressives split off and we had a "far left" (doesn't really exist in this country), a middle and a far right (only radical politics that actually exist in this country) I think we'd be all good.

The rational middle would largely run things and probably ally with the Progressives more often than not. The right would just become increasingly belligerent and violent.

But as it stands the Dems are more prone to placating the left wing of the party than welcoming the moderate Repubs.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 12:21 AM | Reply

We have a middle party. They are called Democrats.

#8 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE

More middle.

But I don't think they're that attractive to disaffected Repubs.

Hence why they're registering as independents instead of Dems.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 12:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But as it stands the Dems are more prone to placating the left wing of the party than welcoming the moderate Repubs."

Yeah, and?

They're still the party that represents the rational middle.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 12:24 AM | Reply

"But I don't think they're that attractive to disaffected Repubs."

Yeah, that's how being rational works.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 12:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#9

What are "moderate Republicans"? What are their ideas?

Examples?

#13 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-02-26 12:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They're still the party that represents the rational middle.

#11 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Not if it turns away the right side of middle.

By definition middle straddles the center line.

It doesn't start at center and move left.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 12:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What are "moderate Republicans"? What are their ideas?
Examples?

#13 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

Those who have been disgusted enough by Trump to leave the GOP and change their affiliation.

You can either move to attract them or simply hope the fracture lasts long enough that ignoring them isn't Russian roulette.

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 12:42 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Moving to QAnon isn't moving right, JPW.

Disaffected Republicans aren't moving left. They're moving to other flavors of crazy.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:10 AM | Reply

"Not if it turns away the right side of middle."

Who exactly are these people, and what turns them away?

Are you one?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:11 AM | Reply

It doesn't start at center and move left.
#14 | POSTED BY JPW

Republicans have moved increasingly right, so what you're seeing isn't Democrats moving more left.
It's Republicans retreating even further from the center.
You're putt "the center" between one object that's staying put and one that's moving right.
So it looks like the party that's staying put... is moving left.
This is how the Overton Window works.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:14 AM | Reply

Moving to QAnon isn't moving right, JPW.
Disaffected Republicans aren't moving left. They're moving to other flavors of crazy.

#16 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Do you have any actual evidence of this?

Or is this just a rationalization to avoid not trying to move left?

#19 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:19 AM | Reply

Who exactly are these people, and what turns them away?

The Trumpification of the GOP has turned them away. January 6 turned them away.

Are you really a regular on this site and yet remain unaware of this?

Are you one?

#17 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You're a bigger idiot than I thought if that's a real, straight faced question.

#20 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're putt "the center" between one object that's staying put and one that's moving right.
So it looks like the party that's staying put... is moving left.

Or...and this is crazy I know...I'm seeing the right hit a boundary.

And my inclination is to take advantage of that fracture point, not ignore it.

This is how the Overton Window works.

#18 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

So? Congrats, you know what that is.

Are there any specific stats that define the Overton Window's meaning?

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:28 AM | Reply

"Or is this just a rationalization to avoid not trying to move left?"

It's not so much about the middle part of the rational middle.

It's about the rational part of the rational middle.

One party is clearly home to countless irrational beliefs.

There's no "middle" there. Left and right past the point of rational thought aren't really left and right any more. Left or right is just the cover story for totalitarianisms. It's how you got to crazy. This is where horseshoe theory comes into play. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if your village is being burned by Nazis or Soviets.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:28 AM | Reply

"The Trumpification of the GOP has turned them away. January 6 turned them away."

So what's keeping them from becoming Democrats?

I've asked this like ten times now. Anything? Even an anecdote?

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:31 AM | Reply

Dems are more prone to placating the left wing of the party than welcoming the moderate Repubs.

If that were even remotely true, the Democratic Party would be a lot more liberal and we might actually have a left in this nation.

AOC and Bernie get a lot of attention for being the entire left wing.

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:34 AM | Reply

Not if it turns away the right side of middle.

Biden didn't win the election?

You want more people like Manchin?

You don't know what the fkkk you're talking about.

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:37 AM | Reply

Those who have been disgusted enough by Trump to leave the GOP and change their affiliation.

Aren't moderate Republicans.

Those RINOs left the Republican Party when Sarah Palin and the Tea Party showed up.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:39 AM | Reply

There's no "middle" there. Left and right past the point of rational thought aren't really left and right any more. Left or right is just the cover story for totalitarianisms. It's how you got to crazy. This is where horseshoe theory comes into play. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if your village is being burned by Nazis or Soviets.

#22 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yeah, far left and far right are more alike than they want to admit.

I'm gonna go off on a bit of a personal tangent here for a sec, but it will make sense, I hope, in the end.

The biggest pet peeve I had in academic science, and the reason I ultimately left it, is the 'fake it 'til you make it' mindset. More often than not this leads to people saying mundane, very common knowledge things as if they're profound, unique thoughts, not realizing they are throwing an instant red flag that they don't know dick about what they're talking about.

You just did that.

Attempting to reach out to disaffected former GOP voters is actually moving away from that common extreme.

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:43 AM | Reply

You're a bigger idiot
#20 | POSTED BY JPW

You're the dumb fffk who said, "Dems are more prone to placating the left wing of the party than welcoming the moderate Repubs."

Did you miss the part where the Lincoln Project became part of the Democratic Party. Along with Bloomberg.

Why don't you shut up.

Idiot.

#28 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So what's keeping them from becoming Democrats?
I've asked this like ten times now. Anything? Even an anecdote?

#23 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You're dumber than I thought for asking this question.

They don't agree with the Dem platform enough to identify. Duh.

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:44 AM | Reply

I'm seeing the right hit a boundary.

You must have hit your head.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:44 AM | Reply

They don't agree with the Dem platform enough to identify. Duh.
#29 | POSTED BY JPW

So the Dem Platform should move even further right to accommodate them?

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:47 AM | Reply

Yeah, far left and far right are more alike than they want to admit.

You and Boaz are more alike than you want to admit.

Too bad the Democratic party can't accommodate you both.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:48 AM | Reply

If that were even remotely true, the Democratic Party would be a lot more liberal and we might actually have a left in this nation.
AOC and Bernie get a lot of attention for being the entire left wing.

#24 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

I love it.

You tools are just as big a whiny, sandy gash as the right is.

You don't get all so your gender neutral panties get into an uncomfortable non-bunchist conformation.

via GIPHY

That's "Progressives" in a nutshell.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:48 AM | Reply

Biden didn't win the election?
You want more people like Manchin?
You don't know what the fkkk you're talking about.
#25 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Or you're a hyperventilating cooze stepping on our own dick.

Just a thought...

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:50 AM | Reply

You tools are just as big a whiny,

Says the dumb fffk *itching the entire thread that the Democratic Party is a bunch of liberals.

Sounds like something Boaz says.

via GIPHY

This shht doesn't load on my phone.

I'm sure your 13 year old girlfriend is impressed by your giphy skills.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:52 AM | Reply

They don't agree with the Dem platform enough to identify. Duh.
#29 | POSTED BY JPW

This still doesn't answer the question of what their grievances are.
You just keep referring to the same unspecified problem former Republicans have with Democrats, without saying what it is.

What parts of the platform don't they agree with? What are their sacred cows? You keep talking about them like they must surely be real things the Democrats could work on. So, what are they?

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 01:53 AM | Reply

Aren't moderate Republicans.
Those RINOs left the Republican Party when Sarah Palin and the Tea Party showed up.

#26 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

So what are the people who left recently?

Did you miss the part where the Lincoln Project became part of the Democratic Party.

They did?

You must have hit your head.

#30 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

LOL holy ---- you're an idiot.

Like I can't respect you anymore level idiot.

Like you might as well believe QAnon is real level idiot.

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 01:54 AM | Reply

you're a hyperventilating cooze stepping on our own dick.
#34 | POSTED BY JPW

Brilliant response!

By the way.

We share a dick?

Kinky.

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:54 AM | Reply

JPW has no responses but stupid vulgar shht.

What a surprise.

#39 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:55 AM | Reply

This still doesn't answer the question

He doesn't have any answers.

He doesn't know what he's talking about.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 01:56 AM | Reply

Says the dumb fffk *itching the entire thread that the Democratic Party is a bunch of liberals.
Sounds like something Boaz says.

LOL another semi-literate ----.

Something you have in common with Boaz, which is more than me! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'm sure your 13 year old girlfriend is impressed by your giphy skills.

#35 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It's a simply cut and paste you pathetic moron.

Brilliant response!
By the way.
We share a dick?
Kinky.

#38 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It was a typo. If you were better than semi-literate you could have figured that out.

But as it stands, you were so proud of sounding out "our" you ran with it.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:03 AM | Reply

?#39 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2021-02-26 01:55 AM

#40 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2021-02-26 01:56 AM

These are literally 1 and 3 minutes after those posts.

I realize you're probably tripping balls off whatever you smoked this evening but time is not what you think.

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:06 AM | Reply

JPW has no responses but stupid vulgar shht.
What a surprise.

#39 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

LOL you sound like the sausage partier ------- who stormed off about a year ago.

Ask boaz for an invitation. Maybe you'll find some help in the "JPW was mean to me" support group LOL!

#43 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:13 AM | Reply

another semi-literate ----.

Say's the dumb fffk who actually believes the Democratic party "placates the left".

By doing what? Putting their name on any movement they believe will win them votes.

You're brain dead.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Are you a 13 year old girl?

It's a simply cut and paste you pathetic moron.

Shut up *itch, no one likes those things.

You have Manchin and Bloomberg and the 1/3 of the people who used to be republicans voting Democrat these days.

The actual article is about the republican party falling apart.

Your response? The Democrats suck for placating liberals!

Shut up idiot.


It was a typo.
#41 | POSTED BY JPW

Who fkking gives a shht.

#44 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:15 AM | Reply

LOL you sound like the sausage partier ------- who stormed off about a year ago.

Still no intelligible responses to anything?

Are you still pretending you're capable?

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:17 AM | Reply

Say's the dumb fffk who actually believes the Democratic party "placates the left".
By doing what? Putting their name on any movement they believe will win them votes.
You're brain dead.

So you don't want student loan forgiveness? Slavery reparations? You're not for a $15 minimum wage?

Are you a 13 year old girl?

No I just thought it was that funny.

The actual article is about the republican party falling apart.
Your response? The Democrats suck for placating liberals!
Shut up idiot.

Those who have been disgusted enough by Trump to leave the GOP and change their affiliation.
You can either move to attract them or simply hope the fracture lasts long enough that ignoring them isn't Russian roulette.

#15 | POSTED BY JPW

That's my response you semi-literate moron.

Take another hit, -------.

Who fkking gives a shht.

#44 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Acting like a typo is meaningful either means you're an idiot who didn't see it was a typo or you're an idiot who pressed on anyway.

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:24 AM | Reply

Still no intelligible responses to anything?
Are you still pretending you're capable?

#45 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

You sound like Trumpers I argue with in other places.

An ignorant ---- who doesn't actually think about or understand their positions on things.

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:26 AM | Reply

So you don't want student loan forgiveness? Slavery reparations? You're not for a $15 minimum wage?

I'm not sure who you think the democrats are, but considering they're supposed to represent the people, and fight for them. Party of the Unions. Civil Rights party.

Those should be given.

That shouldn't be something new in order to placate the left.

That's who they were.

Before the Republicans moved further right and the Democrats followed.

For decades now.

You were asked who moderate Republicans are.

There aren't any. Haven't been in years.

Moving further right to get more conservative voters isn't the answer.

#48 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:32 AM | Reply

Look, I'm responding to you like a righty because you sound like a righty.

If you want to have a real conversation I'm game to have it.

Also obvious, I would think, is that the point furthest from where right means left is the true center.

Jumping down people's throats because they're not left enough seems a bit counter to the goal of hitting the center.

#49 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:34 AM | Reply

You sound like Trumpers I argue with in other places.
An ignorant ---- who doesn't actually think about or understand their positions on things.
#47 | POSTED BY JPW

Keep on telling yourself whatever you need to.

Maybe you can find a Giphy to better express your opinions.

I love seeing the giant blank space with the Giphy stamp at the bottom.

#50 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:35 AM | Reply

Well.

We can't argue and speak rationally.

There needs to be a moment to reset.

So.

I'll be back later.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:36 AM | Reply

I'm not sure who you think the democrats are, but considering they're supposed to represent the people, and fight for them. Party of the Unions. Civil Rights party.
Those should be given.
That shouldn't be something new in order to placate the left.
That's who they were.

That's who you think they are or should be.

My argument is from what they are.

I don't disagree with where you think they should be. I just, apparently, better discern where they are.

Maybe you can find a Giphy to better express your opinions.
I love seeing the giant blank space with the Giphy stamp at the bottom.

#50 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

The insertion of giphs is typically when humor is being attempted.

In any case focusing on it as a strong point in your complain is pretty...ummmmm...light weight.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:46 AM | Reply

We can't argue and speak rationally.
There needs to be a moment to reset.
So.
I'll be back later.

#51 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Dude, seriously, if you can't argue with me without needing to step away you're kind of screwed.

I'm as middle of the road as you get. Actually, I'm left of center overall.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 02:49 AM | Reply

it's more that I'm busy and can't keep checking in to converse.

Arguing is easy.

Conversation needs more attention.

And you can't claim to be left of center and complaining you believe the democrats are doing too much to placate the left.

At that point, what are you even complaining about?

Also, it's not who I think the Democrats are.

It's who they've historically been.

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 02:55 AM | Reply

youtu.be

#55 | Posted by Tor at 2021-02-26 02:55 AM | Reply

It's more that I'm busy and can't keep checking in to converse.
Arguing is easy.
Conversation needs more attention.

Fair enough. That I can respect.

And you can't claim to be left of center and complaining you believe the democrats are doing too much to placate the left.

I can actually. I'm very much left of center on the vast majority of issues.

Also, it's not who I think the Democrats are.
It's who they've historically been.
#54 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

We're talking about the future, not the past.

*shrug* I think we're much closer than we are apart. Let's not create more division than really exists.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 03:12 AM | Reply

We already have a "new party" for 2024. Trump's going to call it the American Patriots Party, or some such high sounding vote bait name.

That is if he's not dead or in prison by then.

#57 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-02-26 04:05 AM | Reply

Two parties aren't enough, haven't been for a long time. Two buckets aren't nuanced enough to appeal to voters who run the gamut from conservative to moderate to liberal on both economic and/or cultural issues. Two parties means in effect that voters can't be fiscally conservative but cultural moderate and/or progressive. Or the reverse: voters can't be fiscally progressive but culturally moderate and/or conservative. What ends up happening is that anti-abortion voters, for example, can't be pro-$15 minimum wage and find appropriate representation. Even sub-dividing the two buckets into two categories (economic and cultural) isn't nuanced enough to adequately encompass a multitude of issues, which don't fall neatly into the conservative vs liberal categories we end up forcing them into.

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-26 06:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

PS Of course, breaking the two parties each into two parties wouldn't prevent Trump or a Trump-like candidate from being elected president in the future. It could increases the chances such a candidate would be elected.

#59 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-26 07:12 AM | Reply

Ranked choice voting would solve a lot of existing problems. Might create a whole new set of them but I'd be willing to try.

#60 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-02-26 08:55 AM | Reply

Actually, I'm left of center overall.

#53 | POSTED BY JPW

Define what positions define the center to you?

#61 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-02-26 08:58 AM | Reply

I would certainly change my political affiliation from independent to some new centrist political party.

Although they were active in my state I would sometimes check out the Modern Whig Party but they folded just a few years ago.

#62 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2021-02-26 10:41 AM | Reply

Yo yo yo

The Democratic party has room in it for each of us, room to have a spirited discussion not devolving into madness.

Sure the direction of the party can be squabbled upon but I call a moratorium on anyone saying to a Democrat they don't agree with might as well be a Republican/Qanon etc...

Please don't insult your fellow human like that.

Only someone who chooses to identify as a Republican or votes Republican deserves such a vile insult.

#63 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-02-26 12:08 PM | Reply

Ranked choice voting would solve a lot of existing problems. Might create a whole new set of them but I'd be willing to try.

#60 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE

Wow... It took till post #60 to actually get something intelligent on this thread. The way our system works, it can only support two parties. Any third party will cannibalize the power of the party they most agree with, which will end up benefitting the party they least agree with. Ranked choice voting is the most likely solution to this problem.

Btw... Maine had ranked choice voting this last election and voters did not have any problem with it as far as I have heard. Also, there was a proposal in GA to implement ranked choice (I believe they called it instant runoff) for military ballots. It was by Republicans trying to skew the system in their favor, but in this past election they probably would have won a Senate seat if they had ranked choice. And I will take it if I can get it.

#64 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2021-02-26 01:37 PM | Reply

If the Dems were not married to abortion on demand,and other socially liberal positions,but were more about anti corporate policies and general economic fairness they would gain voters. A lot of socially conservative people are turned off by abortion and gender obsessions.

Talk more about bread and butter issues,and helping the poor and lower middle rise and less about who's ------- who and getting rid of the progeny created thereby.

#65 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-02-26 02:39 PM | Reply

Economic policies are the Dems real strength. There are far more people hurting financially than rich donors. The corporate Dems only want to help big business and the status quo. Real economic change,the green new deal,universal healthcare,etc,are antithema to them.

Hillary said we will,never,ever,have MFA. Pelosi hates the green dream or whatever. The corporate dems are our undoing.

We need more leaders like Bernie whose focus is about economic fairness and helping the lower earning population.

Constantly harping about reparations for slavery is a big loser. It divides people,slavery was an obscenity,but it ended 150 years ago. No former slaves are currently alive.

Reparations are backward looking and will create more hate between the races. It's like superfuel for demogogues like Trump. A perfect issue to stoke lower class rage.

Follow the money,that's the key. Put money in people's pockets and the rest will follow. Break the big monopolies,Amazon, Facebook, Google, and let smaller players get a foothold. End corporate personhood,it's a stupid and false notion.

#66 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-02-26 02:59 PM | Reply

#65: And a lot of women (and men) would never support a supposedly liberal Party that did not champion abortion and gender issues. A woman's right to choose is not open to debate. Nor is gender equality. At least not if you are actually in any way a liberal.

#67 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-02-26 03:03 PM | Reply

Wow... It took till post #60 to actually get something intelligent on this thread.

Oh relax.

Arguing is a big part of what this place is and it's fun.

You want an intelligent statement?

There are already several other parties to choose from.

But, "Any third party will cannibalize the power of the party they most agree with, which will end up benefitting the party they least agree with."

Which is why there will never be a viable 3rd party.

Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Jill Stein... all blamed for costing the majority party the win.

Trump's QAnon Party will collapse back into the GOP.

#68 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 03:17 PM | Reply

Which is why there will never be a viable 3rd party.

#68 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Not with our current system. Which is why I spent the rest of my post talking about how to change the system to allow what people are saying we need.

And pointing out that it is not just a pipe dream, because one state has actually implemented it.

So I respectfully utterly disagree with your statement. If we can get people pointed in the right direction instead of bickering over how to get one of the two parties to perfectly fit the needs and values of over 50 percent of the US population, then maybe we could actually move toward solving this problem instead just "arguing" about it. Though, don't let my desire to effect useful change diminish your enjoyment at arguing over actually accomplishing something.

#69 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2021-02-26 04:02 PM | Reply

OWS understands exactly why we don't need a new political party, what we need to do is to elect more Demmocrats who will pursue issues favore by by Democrats and Republicans but which some still consider radical even though things like Medicare for All poll at very high approval ratings among Democrats and a good portion of the Republicans too. It is not radical virtually all modern nations have their own versions of it already except the United States. The Republicans try to frame issues like MforAll with scare tactics that it is Socialist or Communist when in reality it is just time to do it, more than time. Why do we want to give such a large portion of our healthcare dollars to banks a/k/a health insurance companies?

#70 | Posted by danni at 2021-02-26 04:05 PM | Reply

I respectfully utterly disagree with your statement.

I respect your disagreement.

I'm not familiar with rank choice voting. I'll look into it more later.

Regardless. I don't see it catching on nationally, mostly because it depends on, "If we can get people pointed in the right direction."

Good luck.

#71 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 05:25 PM | Reply

You guys are hilarious to think the middle is only Democrats.

current DNC is 1980's middle of the road GOP.

The current DNC is Hugo Chavez left, thanks to AOC.

A true middle/moderate would have these opinions...

Pro abortion up to about four months excluding rape and health of the mother. (Not for outright banning abortion)
Pro Guns with small controls for public sales. (Not for outright weapons ban)

Until someone says this in public, there is no such thing as a moderate.

#72 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-26 07:15 PM | Reply

You guys are hilarious to think the middle is only Democrats

The Republican Party closely resembles the Mullahs of Iran or the royals of Saudi Arabia

The current DNC is Hugo Chavez left, thanks to AOC.

Of course they are.

Weak attempt at trolling.

But maybe sure you'll get a few knees to jerk.

#73 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 07:19 PM | Reply

Look Clownshack, a true Moderate is going to understand how important views are to both sides. They are going to have convictions of both sides and will do it convincingly.

I dont see that happening. About the only type political anything that last did that was blue dog Democrats.

#74 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-26 07:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You don't think Racist Crime Bill Biden sees both sides?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 07:25 PM | Reply

"Pro Guns with small controls for public sales. (Not for outright weapons ban)"

1. How is "pro gun" a moderate position? Most Americans don't own guns, because most Americans don't want to own guns.
2. Why can you only envision two choices, either Pro Gun or Outright Weapons Ban?
Repealing the Second Amendment is not an outright weapons ban. Why is that so hard to understand?
Canada and Germany do not have a Second Amendment, but they do not have outright weapons ban either. Why is that so hard to understand?

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 07:35 PM | Reply

How is "pro gun" a moderate position? Most Americans don't own guns, because most Americans don't want to own guns.

It's moderate because the moderate would understand that not everyone is like him and should have the right to own a weapon if they feel like it and not just because they dont want to own one. They would understand that it's not their place to ban something just because they dont want it.

Repealing the Second Amendment is not an outright weapons ban.

Why is "shall not be infringed" so hard to understand?

Canada and Germany do not have a Second Amendment, but they do not have outright weapons ban either.

They may as well have one.

#77 | Posted by boaz at 2021-02-26 07:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

a true Moderate is going to understand how important views are to both sides.

Well then that excludes you.

I'm not being a troll.

You literally won't go within a hundred feet of anything labeled liberal or progressive and just the mention of Democrats makes your stomach turn.

Don't lie to me. I've been reading your posts for too long.

They are going to have convictions of both sides and will do it convincingly.

There are posters on the DR who fit this description.

I wouldn't say you're one of them. You might not consider me to be one of them.

But I'd put money down that I'm more of a moderate than you are.

And I don't say that to feel special.

#78 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 08:00 PM | Reply

"It's moderate because the moderate would understand that not everyone is like him and should have the right to own a weapon"

Everyone having the RIGHT to own a weapon is not a moderate position, Boaz.

Just like everyone having a right to practice medicine, or drive a car, is not moderate position.

Allowing responsibile people to own a weapon, or be a doctor, or get a driver's license, is the moderate position.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why is "shall not be infringed" so hard to understand?"

Thats a question for you, because you don't seem to understand it at all.

Repealing the Second Amendment would not ban any weapons.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 08:57 PM | Reply

Repealing the Second Amendment would not ban any weapons.

Repealing one amendment opens the door to repealing all of them.

No bueno.

Figure out plan B.

#81 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 10:11 PM | Reply

"Repealing one amendment opens the door to repealing all of them."

We've repealed amendments before and survived. We would survive a repeal of the second amendment too. Yes people love their guns and I'm fine with that but the ridiculous "right" to bear arms was never intended to be interpreted as it has been. When you leave out the first sentence of the Amendment to justify NRA wishes you destroy the entire meaning of that amendment. It was not written to justify every fool in America owning an assault rifle, it was intended to arm our nation to defend our nation without a standing army. The founders were very afraid of having a standing army and, like Switzerland, they wanted an armed population to make invasion virtually impossible. It was not intended to enable insurrectionists to carry loaded guns into the Capital, kill people and then claim they were just following the orders of the President.

#82 | Posted by danni at 2021-02-27 06:45 AM | Reply

So I respectfully utterly disagree with your statement. If we can get people pointed in the right direction instead of bickering over how to get one of the two parties to perfectly fit the needs and values of over 50 percent of the US population, then maybe we could actually move toward solving this problem instead just "arguing" about it. Though, don't let my desire to effect useful change diminish your enjoyment at arguing over actually accomplishing something.

#69 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL

You're not going to accomplish anything close to that here.

If you're here for effecting change and not arguing, you're in the wrong place.

#83 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-27 10:00 AM | Reply

Repealing the Second Amendment is not an outright weapons ban.
Why is "shall not be infringed" so hard to understand?

Why do people insist on saying this? It only highlights your ignorance...

The second is already infringed upon. So is the first. No rights are absolute.

#84 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-27 10:03 AM | Reply

We dont need another political party, we need less arrogant and idiot Americans.

#85 | Posted by kudzu at 2021-02-27 11:01 AM | Reply

Those who have been disgusted enough by Trump to leave the GOP and change their affiliation.

#15 | POSTED BY JPW

Those are still not moderates. They are simply hard right Republican, with no pragmatic ideas, who simply don't like Trump.

Almost ALL of the "moderates" now exist within the center-right Democratic Party. Democrats have really become what Republicans used to be.

If it weren't for progressive's, Democrats would have little motivation to accomplish anything.

#86 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-02-27 11:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Those are still not moderates. They are simply hard right Republican, with no pragmatic ideas, who simply don't like Trump.

Facts not in evidence.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-27 11:15 AM | Reply

Your facts are not in evidence either, JPW.

It would be great it they were.

But they're not.

Let's look at the Never Trumpers from 2016. We had Madbomber, JeffJ, and a handful of other Jonathan Birch Society types.

You really think the Democrats are going to be a happy home for people like that?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-27 11:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not to be much of a downer but the whole idea of creating a viable third party is a futile pursuit, now that corporations have the same rights as human beings and money can be defined as free speech.

Essentially, our nation is a modern corporate oligarchy and our federal elections are the world's most elaborate public relations stunt. A whole entire industry has been built up around it that generate billions of dollars for both the RNC and DNC and their subsidiaries, not to mention wheelbarrows full of cash that are funneled into the mainstream media, major lobbying firms, advertising agencies, consulting businesses, and marketing conglomerates.

On top of that you have the present electoral college and Senate constructs effectively destroying the legitimacy of the popular vote.

And what's more, underneath it all, you have a vast web of deception and trickery in the form of gerrymandering, various forms of voter suppression and manipulation and nebulous, numerous partisan registration laws.

If a third party is successfully added into that mess, it will just become another wheel in the machine.

What is needed is a near-future political "Gamestop" moment in which Millenials, GenZs, iKids, etc. use social media and successfully game the system to create a viable candidate to run outside of any party affiliation and who with garner millions of votes outside of the techno-totalitarian frameworks noted above.

#89 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-02-27 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump already transformed the GOP into a third party.

Real change almost always comes from within.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-27 11:27 AM | Reply

We already have a center-right party. They're called the Democrats.

Some of us are working to pull the party to the left where it needs to be, but it's still very much not there.

We also have an off the wall nuts right wing extremist party. They're called the Republicans.

If we had a realistic possibility of getting ranked choice voting, I'd say we needed a party on the left, which we very much do not have now.

But with that at best something for the distant future, we're going to have to stick with trying to move the Democrats to the left, and hoping the right wing nutjob Rs self destruct.

#91 | Posted by DarkVader at 2021-02-27 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Can't say as I agree.
The Democratic Party is a pretty
well defined alternative. I see this
as yet another attempt (and I'm old
enough to have witnessed many such attempts),
at shedding more voters from the Democratic Party
in defense of...?? Some pie in the sky notion
of some mythical central unity? I've lived
long enough to have seen the right try to steal
multiple elections, by not only trying to
splinter the left via labeling (hippies, leftwing
radicals, liberals, commies, socialists, and
now Antifa, etc...) a repetitive act which also
serves as a rallying cry for the GOP, but in also
in saying their own party is splintered (the
patriot party movement, the libertarian party
movement, etc...) only to completely rally and
unify and come together at election time. And
not only that, but then to fund candidates in some of the other democratic leaning parties (most notably their recent funding of Green Party candidates) to siphon even further votes from the Democrats. I don't trust Republicans and right leaning folk as far as I can throw them. And don't care one whit
about their own internal struggles.
There is already the Democratic Party, the only
party that gives the middle class and the poor
the time of day, and the GOP, the party of the rich, the filthy rich, religious nuts, and racists. And that's no party for me...

#92 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-02-27 09:45 PM | Reply

Case in point...

www.commondreams.org

#93 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-02-27 09:50 PM | Reply

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