Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, February 25, 2021

In a tweet voicing his opposition to raising the national minimum wage to $15 an hour, Republican South Dakota Senator John Thune said he made $6 an hour working at a restaurant as a "kid."

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Do we need to have age limits on who can be a senator?

#1 | Posted by Tor at 2021-02-26 12:26 AM | Reply

You have an MBA. It is impossible you don't understand what inflation is.

Sure it is.

MBAs are a dime a dozen.

My left -------- could sign up for an MBA program and finish it. Probably top in its class too.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2021-02-26 12:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Let the ------ put his money where his mouth is and only accept federal minimum wage as his salary.

-------.

#3 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-02-26 07:13 AM | Reply

Dear Senator Thune, what was the cost of groceries, rent, a mortgage, a car, a pair of shoes and health insurance when you were a kid?

#4 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-26 07:18 AM | Reply

-MBAs are a dime a dozen.

The basic concept of inflation is pretty simple....but most folks can't grasp it in a real world scenario.

#5 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 08:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't believe every state in this country can support a $15 minimum wage.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 08:11 AM | Reply

MBAs are a dime a dozen.

His cost 60K a year. It's from Biola University, a private "christian school". Chances are he really doesn't know how stupid his comment is.

He got elected to The House from a state that couldn't fill a hockey rink right out of "college". Took Daschle's seat in a one-off cycle when Daschle was running for President. Now he is the third most powerful Republican, hopelessly entrenched and exactly and dumb as he looks.

#7 | Posted by BluSky at 2021-02-26 08:22 AM | Reply

I don't believe every state in this country can support a $15 minimum wage.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 08:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

The billionaires that own Walmart thank you for your baloney.

If minimum wage was indexed for inflation it would be $24 an hour now.

#8 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-02-26 09:11 AM | Reply

-The billionaires that own Walmart thank you for your baloney.

So, we have clowns here who not only don't understand inflation, they also don't understand cost of living differences between San Francisco and rural Mississippi.

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 09:18 AM | Reply

-If minimum wage was indexed for inflation it would be $24 an hour now.

that's about as helpful right now as Senator Thune's lame ass comment.

#10 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 09:19 AM | Reply

If you want the minimum wage is too low where you live, Nixon...then get off your ass and get it changed at either the city or state level.

That is how we will get the minimum wage increased to appropriate levels....not a fight at the Federal level.

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 09:23 AM | Reply

11 - sorry...If you believe the minimum wage.....

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 09:30 AM | Reply

"Free-market conservative ideologues seem to believe that society works better when a few people get paid a lot, while the rest of us have very little, and advocate policies that bring that about."

Dave Johnson

#13 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2021-02-26 09:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I don't believe every state in this country can support a $15 minimum wage.

#6 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Cool. Why?

#14 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-02-26 10:22 AM | Reply

#9 | Posted by eberly

I understand what you are saying but it is BS. I still inflation - the concept isn't hard. The difference in the cost of living is also simple relatively. What you don't seem to understand is why places like "Mississippi" have fallen so far behind. It isn't all about desirability of location. All wages would rise and yes it would drive up some prices. What may happen is a few more jobs would disappear from rural areas - but they have been doing that for decades regardless and this would accelerate it a little. Farm jobs, Logging, etc. I mean "farmers" do thousands of acres now with just a few people. Mainly because they have automated and become corporations. The move to urban areas is not a new phenomenon. Places like Jackson, the Memphis suburbs and Biloxi would be just fine.

#15 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-02-26 10:25 AM | Reply

-What you don't seem to understand is why places like "Mississippi" have fallen so far behind.

Let's stop here if we could. Why have places like Mississippi fallen so far behind? and I agree.....they are behind. That state struggles with almost every measurable metric we use to study success and failure state by state.

people in poverty
education
obesity rates
racism
etc....

What mistakes or choices placed Miss where they are?

there isn't any skilled labor there anymore (if there ever was).....and it wasn't all that long ago Seattle, WA min wage was still under $10.

This is a big friggin jump for Mississippi. I'm not against an increase but Mississippi needs to drive this....not Washington DC.

I have my doubts that we can "federalize" Mississippi into any kind of prosperity.

#16 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 10:39 AM | Reply

-What may happen is a few more jobs would disappear from rural areas - but they have been doing that for decades regardless and this would accelerate it a little. Farm jobs, Logging, etc. I mean "farmers" do thousands of acres now with just a few people. Mainly because they have automated and become corporations.

I agree with all of that but the mayhem regarding what jobs are lost (and even businesses closed) will be very bad PR.

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 10:55 AM | Reply

Why would farm jobs be impacted? About 1/3 of farm workers are employed by small farms that are not subject to federal min wage and for those farms large enough that they are subject to the law, there are so many exceptions for farm workers that they can often get away with avoiding to the pay the minimum. It should be no surprise that farm workers have the lowest annual family incomes of any industry in the US.

#18 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-02-26 02:09 PM | Reply

"I have my doubts that we can "federalize" Mississippi into any kind of prosperity."

Why not?

It worked wheh the Tennessee Valley Authority did it, right?

I can see pig-ignorant Mississippi Republicans saying "No" to prosperity, just like they did to Meducaid Expansion. But barring that, I think the Federal government could get it done.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 02:25 PM | Reply

I don't think anybody believes we're getting $15.

This debate is intended (in my opinion) to argue like we are now and then accept that an increase in the Fed min wage is necessary but $15 is too much...and then settle on $10-$11 or something like that.

#20 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 02:32 PM | Reply

TVA....LOL

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 02:34 PM | Reply

#16 | Posted by eberly

Being honest - why is Mississippi behind? In a nutshell - Conservatism, White Supremacy/racism and a general failure to move beyond agrarian society. It's a totally miserable place to live from what I have seen. There is no competition for labor which artificially holds down the wages. There is no major industry again this artificially holds down the wages. No offense to people who chose to live there but my perspective is Mississippi is a hell hole people either are to complacent to escape or flee and never look back. I mean Puerto Rico has a bigger population. Sure some companies have popped up plants there I mean I can only think of a few places I know of off hand - Ashley Furniture, Howard Industries and GE Aviation has a facility there. Heck my truck was even assembled there. (Nissan Titan - and the quality honestly shows...) No skilled labor = no skilled jobs.

It may be more boring and uninteresting than Kansas. Relatives live in Huntsville and friends in New Orleans. I have drove through it a few times stopping here and there. Even stayed in Biloxi.

#22 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-02-26 03:04 PM | Reply

I hate to see people working full time and still needing government assistance. Plus, these people should have some way to relax and enjoy life, which requires disposable income. The uneducated working class provides critical services to the economy, and should be compensated accordingly. But, if our tax dollars are going to continue to subsidize low wages, we should just replace most assistance programs, except for healthcare support, with a UBI. This is more efficient and would boost the economy.

I don't agree with a constant nationwide minimum wage, because its not fair. If we're going to legislate a cost of living wage, it should be determined as some percentile of that population's household income.

#23 | Posted by horstngraben at 2021-02-26 03:21 PM | Reply

22

Actually I agree with all of that.

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-26 03:25 PM | Reply

Dude looks good for 60.
Think he's got some work done?
Can't really be a Musk/Bezos "wealth effect," considering Thune's NW is between 100k-1M.

#25 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-02-26 04:15 PM | Reply

TVA....LOL
#21 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Laugh all you want the TVA brought electricity to the valley.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-26 04:42 PM | Reply

I'd like to believe states could fairly set the minimum wage for their population.

But it's not possible for two reasons.

People living in poorer states will fall behind people in states with better economies. (Not that they're not already)

Some states would probably lower minimum wage.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-26 04:55 PM | Reply

Republican Math At Its Worst!
~John Thune

So tell us John: back then, if you were making $1.82/hr at your $6 job...would you have felt underpaid?

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-02-26 07:10 PM | Reply

Time and time again, conservatives seem to instinctively cleave to the disingenuous position that poor people can never be quite poor enough to ever suit them.

#29 | Posted by dutch46 at 2021-02-27 01:27 AM | Reply

"So, we have clowns here who not only don't understand inflation, they also don't understand cost of living differences between San Francisco and rural Mississippi."

Oh, we understand Mississippi and the South. That is why we need a federal government because if we leave it to those states no progress will ever be allowed to happen. The South has always only raised wages, freed slaves, etc. at the point of a gun. Raise the federal minimum wage and drag Mississippi, kicking and screaming, into the 21st Century. Without the federal government, Mississippi would still be a slave state and they have endeavored to retain that relationship with labor ever since. Mississippi is why we have a federal government. That's why the conservative white folks in Mississippi hate the federal government, we took away their right to free labor. They hate us to this day for that. I lived in Mississippi. I got to know the people there. I felt like I escaped from a different century when I got to leave. I wouldn't live in that hell hole if you paid me a million dollars. Florida, in most counties, isn't much different but South Florida is quite different. Here we live as if we are in New York with bright sunshine. The rest of the state, our governor, etc. all hate us but we live as if we are in a civilized state. I earn a civilized income. If I lived in Tallahassee or Panama City I could not maintain my life style. If you are going to live in Florida understand that there are only a few labor markets that will provide a decent income: they are Tampa/St. Petersburg, maybe Orlando but doubtful, Palm Beach County, Broward County and Miami Dade County. The rest of the state, we consider to be South Alabama. If you are retiring though much of the rest of the state is very cheap to live in but jobs are very low pay which the retirees love.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2021-02-27 07:22 AM | Reply

I went back to college with the Vietnam Era GI Bill (1971-1975). I augmented that with earnings as a part-time house electrician at a large local resort/motel for 3.50/hr in 1971 and quitting at $5/hr in 1975, when I completed my MBA in Operations Research (Real MBA with lots of math!).

#31 | Posted by john47 at 2021-02-27 03:31 PM | Reply

jobs are very low pay which the retirees love.

Sure when you only tip a quarter a low wage makes it seem like a decent tip.

I don't believe every state in this country can support a $15 minimum wage.
#6 | POSTED BY EBERLY
Cool. Why?

Just looked up rents in my zip. With good budgeting working 40 a week you could live on 7.84. Now I've lived at that level and it sucks so I'm not saying that should be our min wage but 15? I raised a family on $14 an hour in 2021 money. So a kid working their first job should make enough to support a wife and three kids?

Min wage needs to be raised you get no argument from me there, and in NYC or San Francisco 15 is probably even low, but here in NC no. Either the inflation effects would be off the charts or the unemployment rate would be. 9 would make sense here, I could even get behind as high as 11, however looking at the highest cost of living zip codes in America and saying min wage should provide a living wage in those zip codes just doesn't work.

#32 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-27 04:03 PM | Reply

"With good budgeting working 40 a week you could live on 7.84. "

But what happens when you-------- off or injured, and can't work?
Worker's comp and unemployment aren't going to fill that gap.

A rainy day fund isn't a luxury. It's a necessity. And even then, it's often not enough, which is why we have social programs in the first place.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-27 04:06 PM | Reply

I completed my MBA in Operations Research (Real MBA with lots of math!).
#31 | POSTED BY JOHN47

I see what you did there!

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-27 04:08 PM | Reply

#33
But what happens when you-------- off or injured, and can't work?
Worker's comp and unemployment aren't going to fill that gap.
A rainy day fund isn't a luxury. It's a necessity.

No argument from me like I said while you could live on 7.84 here I don't think that should be min wage. Just pointing out how insane 15 is in an area where you can live on 7.84. 11 would give you 50 a week savings and 75 a week for "extras".

#35 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-27 04:21 PM | Reply

Toawarrior, I've been following your posts for a long time. You've faced tough times and situations with grit and perservance so I kinda found it difficult to read your last post. Rising tides are supposed to raise all boats. Well the tide has been rising for the few.

#36 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 04:27 PM | Reply

Meant #32

#37 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 04:29 PM | Reply

And I don't know your zip code but for $320 minus taxes a week wouldn't get you a tar paper shack let alone utilities and have $50 left over?

#38 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 04:34 PM | Reply

I've never filed for bankruptcy but I could have a couple times. Folks I know who have are asked "how much do you need for entertainment ". Astounded me, but a quality of life issue apparently .

#39 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 04:41 PM | Reply

Does living on $7.84 include having a car?

How about health insurance, or are we relying on Medicad for that?

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-27 04:42 PM | Reply

Yeah, if you live in your car.

#41 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 04:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I've said it before, and I'll
say it again, Republicans don't
do math well...

Math, math is hard...M'kay?

M'kay Mr. Mackey...

M'kay...

#42 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-02-27 07:57 PM | Reply

#38

The 320 would not include the 50 in savings. That amount is a minimum to survive so if you are talking strictly "living wage" that could do it I have done it and it's not pleasant and extremely stressful but possible. Although you are right I didn't pull out taxes, so probably needs to go up 12-13% which puts us around the 9 I said makes sense here.

Around here pushing it to 9 then next year pushing it to 10 then a third year to 11, then index it to inflation from then on would make a lot of sense would be small enough bites for business to plan for and work with. 11 then indexed to inflation would be a nice bump for people around here. Sure 15 would be more but even split over 4 years would be more than most small employers could handle.

#40

Yes Medicaid but I have never hidden my support of universal health care. However around here we use the pray you don't get sick or injured method of health care.

#43 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-27 09:15 PM | Reply

Taowarrior, please understand I have nothing but respect for you. Just saying there's enough wealth in this country that things could be more equitable.

#44 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 09:35 PM | Reply

Actually post #36 was my real sentiment.

#45 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-02-27 09:50 PM | Reply

...and its not like the equivalent of $24 hr
couldn't be calculated and modified by the
local cost of living in each state compared to the national average...

once again the Republican response is
'math is too hard to help out the poor'...

It's just fine and dandy for millionaires and billionaires whom we give tax cuts to, like
every other year...but for the poor? It's suddenly 'oh so hard and difficult'...

p.s. GOP, your still deplorables...

#46 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-02-27 10:43 PM | Reply

#44

Agree 100%. I disagree that raising the min wage is the way to get there.

#45

500 a month shares a good 2 bed apartment with a roommate. 200 a month is 1/2 utilities including internet and 1 streaming service. 433 a month is 100 a week for food. That leaves 243 a month for etc. Like I said not fun but doable. I admit that is 320 take home not gross.

#47 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-28 06:57 AM | Reply

It really depends on the area. $500 a month wouldn't get you a studio apartment where I live on NY state.

#48 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-28 08:42 AM | Reply

#48

Gal that's kind of the point. Where you live a 15 an hour min wage might let you live at the same level a 9 dollar min wage would here. Making 15 the min nationwide doesn't make sense when the cost of living varies so much.

You tell a business owner in this area that he has to pay a 15 min wage and he'll freak out because he might very well only be bringing in 15 an hour himself. Trying to frame it as forcing evil business owners to pay their employees more fairly doesn't work in places like this. Heck the owner of my wife's company has 3 locations and yet our household income is higher than his. The owner of my company has a side gig that makes him more per year than he makes owning the company.

#49 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-28 10:19 AM | Reply

#49 Yes, I understand. Some have proposed:

A Regional Minimum Wage

www.thirdway.org

#50 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-28 10:34 AM | Reply

Old article but for those of you who are whining about Thune here....

epionline.org

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 10:40 AM | Reply

Trying to find a more recent article:

What's the state of play on intern pay on Capitol Hill?

Intern compensation funding is up for discussion again

Securing intern compensation funding last year was a huge victory for lawmakers and advocates. Now they just have to figure out how to get the word out and expand the pie.

As interns descend on Capitol Hill for a summer of public service, more will be paid for their work than ever before. But widespread paid internships are still in their infancy in Congress. This is the first summer that House and Senate offices have dedicated funding available to cut checks.

That means this year's crop could feel some growing pains as offices get their paid programs set up. The spring-semester cohort smoothed out some of the kinks, but summer brings the largest groups of interns.


www.rollcall.com

#52 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-28 11:07 AM | Reply

"Dear Senator Thune, what was the cost of groceries, rent, a mortgage, a car, a pair of shoes and health insurance when you were a kid?"

I'm not sure how old this dude is...it doesn't matter. But for the vast majority of consumer items, prices have fallen dramatically (inflation adjusted) since the end of WWII. Even the cost of housing has remained stable. The cost of healthcare has gone up though.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 11:08 AM | Reply

-A Regional Minimum Wage

Or a state min wage.....like we already have.

We have all kinds of congressmen/women from quite liberal states that don't have a min wage close to $15

Anybody here believe in their sincerity?

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 11:09 AM | Reply

Fact. When the minimum wage was implemented in 1938, it was $.25 per hour. In 2021$, that's $4.64 per hour.

Current minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. You could make the argument that the minimum wage is already 56% higher than it should be.

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 11:12 AM | Reply

The other thing...there are many regions where the median household income is less than what one would earn at $15 an hour.

How do you pay someone $15 an hour when you don't have a customer base to support it?

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 11:17 AM | Reply

"A Regional Minimum Wage
Or a state min wage.....like we already have."

No, not exactly. There would be a baseline minimum wage that could be adjusted up or down according to the region:

Under this proposal, the benchmark national minimum wage would be set at the beginning of each year to one-half of the hourly wage for nonsupervisory workers. In 2019, that wage would be $11.55. Each metropolitan area and rural community would be placed in one of five categories based on living costs. The minimum wage would be either slightly below that benchmark for low-cost areas or slightly above for high-cost ones. States and localities would still be free to pass higher minimum wages.

Since July 2009, when Congress raised the hourly minimum wage to a meager $7.25, the cost of living in the US has increased 17.7%, even as the wage floor has stood still. Rather than stall another decade, let's set an increased minimum wage that is right for everyone and grows every year. It costs $31 to park for a day in Brooklyn, NY. It cost $35 to park for a month in Cumberland, MD. We need a higher national minimum wage--but one that reflects this difference.

Under the Regional Minimum Wage:

The benchmark minimum wage in 2019 would be set at $11.55 in areas of the country like Austin, TX, which has living costs close to the national median.
In the lowest cost places, like Tuscaloosa, AL, the minimum wage would be $9.80.
In medium-low cost places, like Wichita, KS, the minimum wage would be $10.70.
In medium-high cost places, like Denver, CO, the minimum wage would be $12.40.
In the highest cost places, like San Diego, CA, the minimum wage would be $13.30.
If wages increase at the same pace as last year, the benchmark minimum will increase to $11.90 in 2020, with the minimum in the highest cost regions set at $13.70 and in the lowest cost areas set at $10.15.


#57 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-28 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Anybody here believe in their sincerity?"

Some of them, yes:

House Democrats push to raise intern pay to $15 per hour

thehill.com

#58 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-02-28 11:24 AM | Reply

You could make the argument that the minimum wage is already 56% higher than it should be.

#55 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

YOU could make that argument. But as usual, YOU would be wrong.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-28 12:36 PM | Reply

-Some of them, yes:

2...yeah..let's give them a parade

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 12:46 PM | Reply

"YOU could make that argument. But as usual, YOU would be wrong."

Me? Wrong?

No, that would have been FDR who would have been wrong. He stared the whole thing.

That was way before my time. You can throw your spears at him.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 12:58 PM | Reply

2...yeah..let's give them a parade

#60 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Or you could parade Trumpy's golden statue around instead.

We know which one you would choose to follow.

#62 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-02-28 01:17 PM | Reply

You could make the argument that the minimum wage is already 56% higher than it should be.

Only because you prefer the rich keep their boots on the necks of the poor.

You hate poor people and prefer they live their lives eating shht while the rich rob them blind for their labor.

#63 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-02-28 01:32 PM | Reply

-Or you could parade Trumpy's golden statue around instead.

Troll.

But seriously......everybody is a Hypocrite on this issue.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 02:05 PM | Reply

"The other thing...there are many regions where the median household income is less than what one would earn at $15 an hour."

Where?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:10 PM | Reply

"Only because you prefer the rich keep their boots on the necks of the poor."

Me...and FDR?

#66 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:12 PM | Reply

"Around here pushing it to 9 then next year pushing it to 10 then a third year to 11, then index it to inflation from then on would make a lot of sense would be small enough bites for business to plan for and work with."

I'd like to see the books of these businesses that say they can't stay in business if they have to pay $15/hr.

Has anyone actually seen numbers to support $15 being too high for some businesses?

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:13 PM | Reply

FDR raised the minimum wage.

MadBomber wants to lower it.

Apparently those are the same thing.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:16 PM | Reply

"Where?"

Examples?

Do you really need examples?

It's like asking for proof that rain exists.

#69 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:20 PM | Reply

"I'm not sure how old this dude is...it doesn't matter. But for the vast majority of consumer items, prices have fallen dramatically (inflation adjusted) since the end of WWII."

You lie.

The vast majority of poor people's spending is on rent (40%), transportation (16%), food (15%) and health care (10%). www.statista.com

Most if not all of those things cost more now, than at the end of WWII.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:24 PM | Reply

"I'd like to see the books of these businesses that say they can't stay in business if they have to pay $15/hr."

No you wouldn't.

That would mean you would have to step foot into flyover country.

Methinks you'll struggle to find a vegan soy latte with a side of avocado toast in Hale County, Alabama.

But by all means, feel free to go there and tell the business owners how they owe their employees more than they themselves make.

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:25 PM | Reply

Put simply, I think they're lying when they say they can't pay $15/hr.

I'm amazed there are people who believe it.

Well, let me rephrase that: I'm amazed there are people who aren't dyed in the wool conservatives who believe it.

But there's only one way to find out: Show Me The Money!

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:33 PM | Reply

"Most if not all of those things cost more now, than at the end of WWII."

That, sir, is a load of steaming -------. Maybe if I get bored later, I'll post the numbers showing exactly how much cheaper things are today when compared to then.

But it's odd that I need to. I do this about once a year. Do you just forget, or do you find it fun for me to punk you?

#73 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:35 PM | Reply

"You tell a business owner in this area that he has to pay a 15 min wage and he'll freak out because he might very well only be bringing in 15 an hour himself."

Show Me The Money!

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:35 PM | Reply

"Put simply, I think they're lying when they say they can't pay $15/hr."

You think?

Awwww...is that what your heart tells you?

Sweet girl...

#75 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:37 PM | Reply

"Show Me The Money!"

Show you?

Who the ---- are you?

If he/she showed you the money...maybe you you'd be willing to shell out the difference to ensure workers got $15 an hour?

#76 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 02:40 PM | Reply

Average cost of new car in 1950: $1,510.
Average new car price crosses $40,000 in 2020.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:41 PM | Reply

If California and New York can't manage to implement $15 min wage then why are we shoving it down Alabama's throat?

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 02:54 PM | Reply

Because it's good for the economy, Eberly.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 02:56 PM | Reply

I think $11 would be good enough. Especially considering how many businesses are struggling right now. Raising wages while business is doing the opposite of booming doesn't seem like it's really doing minimum wage earners too many favors. As has been predicted, some businesses will close rather than pay.

But not because they can't pay. Because they just don't want to, like those Texas power companies that just didn't want to pay for natural gas, leading to blackouts.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 03:01 PM | Reply

"Because it's good for the economy, Eberly."

Is it?

If it were good for the economy, why would there be any contention?

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 03:10 PM | Reply

"I think $11 would be good enough. Especially considering how many businesses are struggling right now."

Nonsense.

Median household income in the US is currently $68,400. Which would imply that minimum wage should be somewhere around $32 an hour.

Anything less would be nothing more than exploitation of the proletariat.

#82 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 03:13 PM | Reply

"If it were good for the economy, why would there be any contention?"

Same reason there's "contention" over universal health insurance: It would cost a small handful of rich people more.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 03:13 PM | Reply

"Median household income in the US is currently $68,400. Which would imply that minimum wage should be somewhere around $32 an hour."

Can I see your math?

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 03:13 PM | Reply

Especially the part where the median is supposed to equal the minimum.

I'd like to see that part of your math, MadBomber.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 03:15 PM | Reply

You're right Snoofy.

What does your heart tell you that minimum wage should be?

#86 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 03:39 PM | Reply

Oh, and my number was based on the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, in many areas a $15 wage for a single income household would produce a theoretical result where a minimum wage earner was making more than a current household earning median income for that region. Like Hale County, Alabama.

#87 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-02-28 03:41 PM | Reply

-Same reason there's "contention" over universal health insurance: It would cost a small handful of rich people more.

That's not the reason. It's true but it's not the obstacle.

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 04:16 PM | Reply

"Oh, and my number was based on the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, in many areas a $15 wage for a single income household would produce a theoretical result where a minimum wage earner was making more than a current household earning median income for that region."

Yeah, that's kind of the point.
Raise the minimum wage, and the median household income goes up.

It's pretty hard to see the injustice there... unless of course you think the median household income should go up from welfare alone.

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 04:22 PM | Reply

That's not the reason. It's true but it's not the obstacle.
#88 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Then what is the obstacle, Eberly?

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 04:23 PM | Reply

"A Regional Minimum Wage
Or a state min wage.....like we already have."

Roughly half the States in the Union don't have a State minimum wage.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 04:36 PM | Reply

250+ million Americans who aren't wealthy are the obstacle.

And their state govts. Many of which have high costs of living and they don't seem to think $15 should be their minimum wage......because it's not.

#92 | Posted by eberly at 2021-02-28 04:56 PM | Reply

"250+ million Americans who aren't wealthy are the obstacle."

LOL

Two-thirds of Americans favor raising federal minimum wage to $15 an hour
www.pewresearch.org

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 05:09 PM | Reply

Put simply, I think they're lying when they say they can't pay $15/hr.

If min wage were raised to 15 an hour the owner of my wife's company would close one of the three stores he owns it's not currently making a profit and if he had to pay untrained people 15 it would be losing even more than it currently is. His other two stores could stay open at 15 but it would be a struggle. I'm not going to post his numbers but at the begining of the pandemic he was concerned that it might be the death of the company, I talked with him about buying my wife's store if he was going to have to shut down so I got the numbers. After all expenses my wife's store makes him about what one employee at 15 an hour would make. There are 5 employees at the store and they need a 6th so that last employee would take almost all the profit that store makes.

That would mean he would have to raise prices, and given that price pressure is a huge issue for brick and mortar stores due to online shopping, that could kill his sales. He is already more than online but the service provides value that people will pay for, but how much over online will people pay for service?

#94 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-28 07:06 PM | Reply

Thanks for the real world example.

I don't like this outcome, but it's going to be hard to convince me those workers wouldn't be better off making $15/hr at Walmart.

The slow, agonizing death of retail to the Internet led by Amazon is one of American Capitalism's greatest success stories!

I think $15 will help with that.

But I also think people should make enough money that they can afford to live without fear of real deprivation, and $7.25 isn't close to enough.

The PPP program was a huge scam as administered by Kushner, but it shows how government could help small businesses shoulder these costs.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 09:00 PM | Reply

#95

I agree a program along the lines of the PPP could help small businesses deal with the costs, but I question if a program like that can be run well, that's a lot of money and a lot of temptation.

The huge companies are getting ahead of this anyway so small business is already struggling for decent employees. The saving grace is the work environment and the chance to climb the ladder is much greater, up to a point since large companies have many more layers of management.

Mandating a higher min wage would just accelerate the death of small companies and clear the field for even more dominance by the massive companies that could absorb the cost.

Personally I would rather see a UBI and UHC. IMO that would be a boost to small businesses instead of a boost to large companies.

#96 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-02-28 09:12 PM | Reply

Me too, but it's a Capitalist country.

So you know the government will have a much easier, costlier, and less effective program:

Support for the people funneled through supporting businesses.

Like food stamps, and HUD vouchers.

Not supporting people directly is what creates predatory businesses.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-02-28 09:19 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2021 World Readable

Drudge Retort