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Thursday, April 01, 2021

Alien life could be so advanced it becomes indistinguishable from physics.


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Perhaps Arthur C. Clarke was being uncharacteristically unambitious. He once pointed out that any sufficiently advanced technology is going to be indistinguishable from magic. If you dropped in on a bunch of Paleolithic farmers with your iPhone and a pair of sneakers, you'd undoubtedly seem pretty magical. But the contrast is only middling: The farmers would still recognize you as basically like them, and before long they'd be taking selfies. But what if life has moved so far on that it doesn't just appear magical, but appears like physics?


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What if dark matter is complex like luminous matter is, and has something like a periodic table? Do not be so naive as to believe than Man is either the first or the last sentient race to tread this globe, nor that the bulk of light and matter walks alone.

#1 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-01 09:16 PM | Reply

where are the Dyson spheres?

An advanced alien species should have needed them at some point.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-01 09:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Part of the fabric of the universe is a product of intelligence."

#3 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-01 09:48 PM | Reply

"After computing to 10^20 places, she finds a clearly artificial message embedded in the digits of this fundamental number. In other words, part of the fabric of the universe is a product of intelligence or is perhaps even life itself."

That was awesome.

#4 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-01 09:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Even more is a little-recognized property of matter. Obviously because of the simple fact of flora and fauna existing and reproducing itself. The chromosomes themselves using plants, animals, bacteria, etc. as little more than living hosts doing their bidding.

And since matter (a mass) can be related directly and interchangeably to Energy via Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity, E=mc^2; and then using the transitive law of mathematics, a+b+c, the property of life is equal to simple Energy (Joules). Some of that Energy is readily observed using a simple infrared camera as heat (infrared light) put off by living things.

Life = matter = Energy

However, life is only a property of matter, not the matter itself. So the equation is not perfectly true.

I really shouldn't post this, but, what the hell...


#5 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-01 11:24 PM | Reply

#5 Dude, the orbs got RLR. Watch what you post.

#6 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-02 12:09 AM | Reply

My belief is that at some point aliens visited Earth and added their DNA to our mix. There are too many chronicled visitations from thousands of years ago around the world ranging from the accounts in Genesis and Ezekiel to cave paintings picturing interstellar visitors wearing protective gear.

#7 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-02 12:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Actually, the transitive law of mathematics is: a=b=c. Brainfart.

And now for something completely different, here's Wolf Alice performing their 2015 alternative chart-topping hit, "Mona Lisa Smile".

Wolf Alice--"Mona Lisa Smile"

#8 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 12:32 AM | Reply

#7 AU, I've pondered that myself. In college, I spent 2 weeks on an archaeological expedition in west Texas in a summer session. We were taking samples of 3500 year old cave paintings. The landscape is barren and most of the images were of what are dubbed "shaman." White, tall, lanky ghosts with arms stretched out high in the air.

Later on one evening, I was laying on the hood of my car, smoking herb with a couple of friends on the expedition and after they left, I noticed the full moon. There isn't anything else to look at after dark except the stars and moon. And there it was: the Whihe Shaman were depictions of the Man in the Moon... what we call the rabbit stretching out over the top of the Moon. Not the other man in the Moon that looks eerily like a face.

I mentioned it to the head Federal forest ranger who was guiding and boating us up and down the Pecos and Rio Grande rivers to the cave sites. He was... amused and said, "Hm."

#9 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 12:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I knew he might be interested since more than a few times we ended up at his very nice home on the top of a hill nearby to get out of the heat. His wife was so fascinated with the shaman that she had self-made paintings and sculptures of it all over the house. Some of them looked like chromosomes stretched out, and also like people making a veritable "X" with their arms stretched out high. As if the genus ---- had finally achieved a living, chromosome-like appearance.

Marijuana is a hell of a drug.

#10 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 12:51 AM | Reply

PS: U Am Hitler Heliumrat, keep the crazy threads coming, man.

#11 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 12:57 AM | Reply

#11 Yeah. Hey, give RLR my regards.

#12 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-02 01:11 AM | Reply

#9 | Posted by madscientist

A few years ago, I read an interesting book called "The Bible Code." Written by an Israeli computer scientist, it was a very interesting read. Another was "Intruders: The Incredible Visitation at Copley Woods."

I, for one, am not arrogant enough as an Earthling to think we're the only living beings in our universe. Look how far we've come in just over 100 years: horse and buggies to landing on the moon. At the rate we've advanced, it isn't inconceivable that beings on planets billions of years older than ours have technology that would blow our minds, with capabilities beyond our capacity to comprehend.

Former astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who grew up in Roswell, NM, was told by many people on the scene in 1947 that there was indeed a UFO crash and ET bodies. Even the AF put out a press release saying as much before the phony 'weather balloon' story was trumped up.

My wife and I were staying in a hotel in Atlanta and stumbled on a panel of regular Joes hosted by Dr. Stanley Friedman. It was really interesting! One of the panelists was an auto mechanic with no education beyond 10th grade who was suddenly able to do complex celestial navigation calculations after his reported abduction. It's all really interesting ...

#13 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-02 01:24 AM | Reply

Even the Bible has numerous mentions of 'heavenly beings,' the first among others found in Genesis:

The Nephilim, the product of the sons of god mingling with the daughters of Adam, the great Biblical giants, "the fallen ones," the Rephaim, "the dead ones""these descriptions are all applied to one group of characters found within the Hebrew Bible. Who are the Nephilim? From where do the "heroes of old, the men of renown" come?

Genesis 6:1"4 tells the readers that the Nephilim, which means "fallen ones" when translated into English, were the product of copulation between the divine beings (lit. sons of god) and human women (lit. daughters of Adam). The Nephilim are known as great warriors and Biblical giants (see Ezekiel 32:27 and Numbers 13:33).

And then you have Ezekiel's 'wheel within a wheel' and creatures with glass 'domes' over their heads.

#14 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-02 01:39 AM | Reply

Shaman cave paintings of Texas:

#15 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-04-02 10:18 AM | Reply

If these walls could talk:

#16 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-04-02 10:20 AM | Reply

15/16 That's it. I'd tell the journal we published in, but I don't want to reveal my last name.

#17 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 10:34 AM | Reply


No worries, I wanted to put the images into my imagination.
I had no idea the US had cave paintings at all! Awesome findings.

#18 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-04-02 10:40 AM | Reply

Heliumrat, I don't have anything against RLR. He's always been polite and cordial to me. However, you have the potential to become a crucial delicacy and piece de resistance for my new recipe, which I call rat salad with croutons, butter lettuce, and bacon bits. :>)


--H. Lecter

#19 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 10:41 AM | Reply

Gonoles92, I would've put this on the thread about best vacation spots, but thought it would've been too lame compared to everyone else's fantastic adventures. But it was a very memorable way to spend 2 weeks and get an A for three hours of undergraduate chemistry credit. Plus, I got to check off one of my childhood bucket list adventures: participating in a PBS/NOVA-style scientific archaeological trip. Besides, Yosemite was probably the most awesome place I've been to on Earth. But it was fascinating to see and touch these 3500 year old cave paintings. Especially in an age where "heavy duty" means lasting only two years.

It reminds me of an old Chinese saying I stumbled upon around the same time: Be humble; much was accomplished before you were born.

#20 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Incidentally, the reason these paintings escaped the elements for so long a time was due to the fact that calcium-digesting lichens covered them in the distant past and deposited their organic waste as a thin layer of transparent calcium oxalate monohydrate called whewellite over the surface of the art. The paintings were drawn on a substrate of dolomitic limestone (Ca/Mg carbonate), gypsum (Calcium sulfate), and black seams of pyrolusite (Manganese dioxide).

Our task was to take hundreds of samples from nondescript areas of the paint and substrate rock to determine the qualitative and quantitative composition of them.

-Red (actually terra-cotta and burnt sienna) and yellow ochre was Iron II and III oxide (hematite and goethite) mixed with buffalo fat.
-White was very pure calcite mixed with buffalo fat.
-Black was manganese dioxide (pyrolusite) in buffalo fat.
-I can't remember what the blue pigment's name was, but I think it was a coordination compound derivative of silicic acid [SiO(OH)2]F dissolved in water with a naturally-occurring free fluoride ion then esterified with buffalo fat to keep the blue color permanent.

#21 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 12:22 PM | Reply

I love reading these threads when you folks get rolling! Brilliant people talk about ideas. Keep these threads coming.

#22 | Posted by Just_Joe at 2021-04-02 01:01 PM | Reply

Look how far we've come in just over 100 years: horse and buggies to landing on the moon.

Very true. It reminds me of the Tower of Babel story taught in Sunday school. That early man with one language accomplished such a feat so fast worried God so much that he purportedly destroyed the tower and confused the languages among them and spread them across Eurasia.

Even at 5 years old I thought this was odd. Why would God destroy and confuse people on purpose whose sole goal was to build a tower to be closer to Him?

There are many more such oddities in the Tanakh, the Torah especially, that have been incorporated into Western civilization's culture. Such as God testing Abraham by instructing him to kill his son Isaac on an altar. Especially after waiting till age 100 to sire him. (Isaac means "he laughs" in ancient Hebrew...referring to Abraham laughing out loud when he heard his wife Sarah was pregnant). However, Isaac had had a son named Ishmael (the father of the Arabians and Muslims) with his Egyptian concubine/servant Hagar at Sarah's permission since she thought she was barren.

Unfortunately, more than a few unstable fathers who have an undiagnosed God-complex take this literally to show their supreme fealty to God and treat their children like carnal accidents reminding them of their lust instead of gifts to be cherished.

I'm sure you know all this, but I thought it would be an interesting tangent to the discussion.

#23 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 01:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Correction Abraham, not Isaac, had had a son named Ishmael, with his servant Hagar. Isaac was Ishmael's younger half-brother from the issue of Abraham and Sarah, his legal wife.

#24 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 01:57 PM | Reply

Also another correction: #8's "Mona Lisa Smile" should be "Moaning Lisa Smile."

#25 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 02:09 PM | Reply

#9 Continued. The full moon in May 1994 was on May 25th. We left for the expedition right around that date immediately after the spring semester ended and the Summer I semester began.

Full Moon, May 1994

#26 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 02:31 PM | Reply

which I call rat salad with croutons, butter lettuce, and bacon bits. :>)
--H. Lecter

Add broccoli and carrots and that's my salad almost every night.

#27 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-02 02:59 PM | Reply

#23 | Posted by madscientist

Speaking of the Torah and ET's, you'd find that book I mentioned, "The Bible Code," very interesting.

#28 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-02 03:13 PM | Reply

The irony I find in the probability of intelligent life beyond Earth centers on the idea that not only are they here, and have been here, but they're coming from a place that is relatively speaking right next door. Meaning, instead of the improbability of traversing space within this universe to visit, they're actually travelling interdimensionally. Not to say that there's not intelligent life on another planet within this universe, but rather to say the intelligent life we are perceiving through UFOs or instances of alien abduction are only able to visit us because it's far easier to travel interdimensionally than it is intergalactically. IOW, the boffins' assertion that these UFOs certainly could not be from another planet simply because of the distance involved may be spot on. It's the even MORE convoluted and seemingly impossible explanation that the UFOs are from another dimension that is the actual truth of the matter, rendering the conversation entirely moot for said boffins. They refuse to have a conversation about these possibilities simply because they don't have the necessary language to do so. Hence, they leave the conversation to be had by the likes of Arthur C. Clarke and Isaac Asimov as they're the likes blessed with imaginations to develop the language, via sci-fi, much of which is subsequently incorporated into the actual scientific literature years later. It's almost as though sci-fi and science are constantly trying to shake hands in a dark room, every once in a while able to make brief contact that better orients each other's positions. What will it be? What will happen that will actually force this handshake to happen?

Is the tic-tac video evidence of this handshake?

#29 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-02 03:37 PM | Reply

Lots of wishful thinking. I too wish these imaginings are true. But until verifiable, reproducible scientific evidence ever comes to light, I will simply 'pass' for now.

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-04-02 03:57 PM | Reply

#29 | Posted by rstybeach11

Entirely plausible. Or, they could have discovered worm holes that cut the trip to practically nothing, in galactic terms, as Einstein suggested was possible.

#31 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-02 04:00 PM | Reply

#28 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Dude. The Bible Code is crap. Here:

"2010 - Earth Decimated".

It's just like Qanon.

It does mention Barack Obama, but like then history ends. So you are in Hell.

But check this out:

I read that as "they will find it by computer". And yeah, "Hid in the Torah", and all the other stuff. Quite the code intersection.

#32 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-02 06:35 PM | Reply

"Even more is a little-recognized property of matter."

I'd call it an emergent property.
Given the right conditions, matter can become living matter.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-02 09:12 PM | Reply

#33 Interesting. Looks like I've got some reading to do on it. Thx.

#34 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-02 09:29 PM | Reply

#33 k. Watch for orbs.

#35 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-02 10:41 PM | Reply

#34 Have you taken cellular biology? It's worth it.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-03 12:47 AM | Reply

No, but a couple of my roommates did. I'll check that out as well.

#37 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-03 01:35 AM | Reply

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