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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, April 03, 2021

Russia on Friday warned NATO against sending troops to eastern Ukraine after Kyiv accused Moscow of building up a military presence on its border.

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... "Russia is not threatening anyone." ...

Tell that to Crimea.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 01:49 PM | Reply

Crimea is part of Russia,has been for centuries.It's like saying the feds were wrong for keeping Maryland in the union in 1861.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 05:22 PM | Reply

The Red Square really is a nice place.

I would hate for something to happen to it.

#3 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-03 06:41 PM | Reply

@#2 ... Crimea is part of Russia,has been for centuries.

Then why did Russia have to take it by force?

And I might also say that "part of Russia" may need a bit of defining.

Recent history had it as part of Ukraine, not Russia (a.k.a. U.S.S.R.)

While I would agree that the history of the region is messy.

I disagree that said messiness justifies what Russia did and how they did it.


#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 07:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

F Putin. We either take a stand or keep withering under him, the Chinese and North Korea until we cannot take one at all.

#5 | Posted by Yodagirl at 2021-04-03 09:54 PM | Reply

I'd start with North Korea.

#6 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-04-03 09:57 PM | Reply

"Crimea is part of Russia,has been for centuries.It's like saying the feds were wrong for keeping Maryland in the union in 1861."

Did you just compare Putin and Lincoln?

#7 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-03 10:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

------' A.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 10:29 PM | Reply

Yeah, I'm w you Yodagirl, if Russia and China really insist on World Dominance and WWIII,
maybe we should just give it to them... They have been just slow marching us towards WWIII for a few years now anyways... I would like to see a way out, but unless Xi or Putin go ---- up in the next 3-5 years or so, I'm finding other viable options (other than giving into their demands) few and farther between.

Can either even be negotiated with anymore?

#9 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 10:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How fast did Reek waddle down to his bunker after this threat from Russia?

#10 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-04-03 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#8 ... ------' A. ...

Please translate that for me.

Are you conceding that your prior comments were totally foolish?

Or are you trying to say that you might have something further to add?

thx.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 10:38 PM | Reply

What's wrong with their "demands"? We have been stifling the whole earth for at least 120 years. There are other ways of living besides American capitalism. Why is everything our way or no way? Venezuela,Cuba,Bolivia,Chile. We have ---- all over the Western Hemisphere.

Iraq,Iran,Vietnam,Cambodia,Korea, we have ---- all over Asia.

What possible reason except fear of military defeat and or, total destruction of their economic systems,would make them want to do things "our way". We are shameless and unrepentant bullies and imperialists.

Russia and China both have the high moral ground compared to the USA. Lol.

#12 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 10:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#9 ... if Russia and China really insist on World Dominance and WWIII,
maybe we should just give it to them... ...

One of the problems in that scenario is the possible outcome over the long term.

China has been putting serious investment into their infrastructure.

Meanwhile we have been mired in political self-destruction. (that "house divided against itself" thing)

How do you think this might end?

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 10:44 PM | Reply

@#12 ... What's wrong with their "demands"? ...

Whoa, where did this "demands" thing come from.

Please explain.

thx.

#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 10:46 PM | Reply

#9 Earthmuse.

#15 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 10:48 PM | Reply

Why does America fear a multi-polar world? We are alone strategically in North America, invasion is a laughable fear. We're gonna be fine no matter what they do in Asia. We want to Project Force on others with total impunity. We want hegemony over the whole earth itself,and now space as well.

It's ------- sick.

#16 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 10:53 PM | Reply

@#16 ... We're gonna be fine no matter what they do in Asia.

You are going to have a tough time trying to convince me that what happens in a significant part of this Blue Marble upon which we live has no effect upon the Country in which we live.

But have at it....

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 11:05 PM | Reply

#13 that's why you take out China 1st...

Situation: 3 'Super Powers'...
1 aging Super Power...the U.S.
1 ancient/quasi Super Power...Russia
1 up and coming Super Power...China.

We are almost at a WWJD moment...but as I'm an
atheist and don't believe in Jesus, let's change that to a WWPD 'what would Putin do'
moment, and ask what he would likely do if he could switch places with us...

Answer: he would attack China while he still
thought he could win. (barring, of
course, negotiation and being their
ally--which is Russia's current
paradigm w China). But in this make
believe scenario, Russia is in the
U.S.'s current situation...

Let's face it folks, as in Game of Thrones or
the movie Highlander, 'there can be only one'.
World dominant power that is...

So....either America capitulates to China, and slowly let's them take over 1/3 of the world or more...slowly fading into history, or we agree on some sort of divied up world where Russia, the U.S., and China have 'spheres of influence', which will last what??? 10-20 years before China says, 'nope, we want it all...'

Or...the U.S. acts while it still can, while
it is still ahead... believe me, this scenario has probably been run a few thousand times by now by U.S. command...

...and it's getting close to Jesus time.

eventually when you go to the bathroom,
you have to ---, or get off the pot...

I hope there is another way out...but someone will have to bend...and I don't see that happening w the current leaders in the world's 3 super powers...

#18 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:12 PM | Reply

I didn't say no effect. I said we don't have to Control everything on whole earth. We don't have to dominate them,force them to accept economic and political systems they don't want.

We can accept them as equals and just play defense rather than being a militant bully about everything so they are always on edge.

Accept that they have spheres of influence and respect their boundaries and space like we expect them to do us. Not Crowd Russia at their western border and push NATO ever deeper into their face. How would we respond to a huge military base and frequent war games by Russia in Venezuela or Cuba? America is like the British Empire in 1920. We are effete and ripe to fall into second class statehood. It really should happen sooner rather than later if nuclear war and possible Extinction are to be avoided.

#19 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 11:15 PM | Reply

#16... Effete... I'm fine with it...
multi-polar multilateralism...whatever you want to call it... I just don't think that is the way the world works... History shows that those on top, tend to like to stay that way...

#20 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

...and of course this is an oversimplification, as Russia plays both sides, acting as both China's and India's ally...

#21 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:19 PM | Reply

World domination, what a concept. In WWII the Japanese were freeing Asia from the rule of European and US colonization. It is true, not that it was much different.

#22 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-03 11:20 PM | Reply

@#18 ... Answer: he would attack China while he still
thought he could win.

I am not yet convinced that your scenario of Jesus attacking China is a possible outcome.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 11:20 PM | Reply

----------- world has always been multi-polar. It's only the elites of western expansionist powers that push global as opposed to regional dominance. China is legitimately the rising force in East Asia.

Russia has been invaded from the West multiple times and been catastrophically impacted by this repeatedly in the last hundred years or so. They have great reason to be paranoid,us not so much.

We have never been successfully attacked except in 1814 by the British,and on 9/11/2001. That was a small attack that killed a few thousand,it was a one off caused by hubris and carelessness.

Russia was repeatedly raped by enemies from the West. They are not paranoid,they are rationally afraid.

#24 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 11:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Lol...funny Lamp..read more carefully, that
would be Putin, if he was in the U.S.'s situation, faced w two allied hostile ideologically similar Super Powers...

#25 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:28 PM | Reply

multi-polar yes, built on alliances...

But today is no longer the 1800's
or even the 1940's... China and Russia,
allied, sharing both technology and purpose,
would be very hard to stop, by the U.S. and whatever allies it could call upon...

especially if Russia were to invade Europe
(say on a pretense of getting back Ukraine...)
[check the latest headlines]

and if China decided to move at the same time in SE Asia... what then Horatio? I am just forwarding realistic scenarios...

#26 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:36 PM | Reply

Are they hostile? You make a lot of basic assumptions. They are self interested,that's not he same as hostile. Make the case,how exactly are they hostile? They don't want to do things our way. They want to do things their own way.

So do we. The difference is we sanction,and bomb,and drone and invade countries that are not a direct threat to us in any way.

Neither Russia or China has done this.

#27 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 11:37 PM | Reply

@#25 ... Lol...funny Lamp..read more carefully, that would be Putin, ...

Major oops. Thanks for the correction. I misread your comment. Apologies are proffered.

From your #18 ... So....either America capitulates to China, and slowly let's them take over 1/3 of the world or more. ...

Yup.

And I might add... look at what China is spending to beef up their infrastructure.

Will we be able to keep up?

#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 11:37 PM | Reply

Russia has far more to fear from NATO than NATO has to fear from them. China is the rising power,get over it. China is not expansionist,they are trader's,not warrior's. They want markets and economic power,things we willingly gave them long ago to our own detriment. We should be building back our economic base and manufacturing infrastructure,not ceding that to them without a murmur. America is a bully,we just want to fight, not create wealth by actual endeavor, but only by financial gamesmanship.

We are decadent and in total and irreversible decline as a player internationally.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 11:45 PM | Reply

No we can't keep up with them. We are divided and at odds as a nation. We need unity or acceptance of decline. Acceptance would be better,there would be less loss of life and fewer wars of aggression if we just backed off.

Foreign wars as a tool to build national unity are criminal and unsuccessful at what they are attempting to achieve.

Check Nazi Germany,or Napoleonic Europe,both disasters for the nation's that begat them.

#30 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-03 11:51 PM | Reply

In #27, you have a valid point...
hard to know motives...especially w China.

w Russia and Putin, it's much more clear. (i.e.
the current situation w Russia on the Ukrainian border)... So if the U.S. doesn't roll over, and gets in the way of Putin's expansionist dreams of reclaiming the Ukraine, what then?
The Jesus moment may be closer than you think.

And w China, they always (historically) have played the long game, though Xi has shown that, that philosophy seems subject to change.

#31 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-03 11:56 PM | Reply

@#29 ... Russia has far more to fear from NATO than NATO has to fear from them. ...

That depends entirely upon what "NATO" means.

Fortunately, we have moved away from the place where "NATO" meant ~not the United States.~

... China is the rising power,get over it. . ...

Yes, China is a rising power. A very significant rising power.

... China is not expansionist,they are trader's,not warrior's ...

I am not yet convinced of that.

Time will tell....

#32 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 11:57 PM | Reply

... but maybe we should get back to Russia trying to take over Ukraine.

And avoid the apparent deflection towards China....

#33 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 12:03 AM | Reply

Have to go to bed...almost midnight here, and I'm not as young as I once was....good talk.

But a last couple of things to think about...

2 things w China worry me...

1. they no longer seem to recognize or care about international laws or norms...(e.g. their fleets of fishing boats pillaging waters everywhere). Which bodes badly for them acting as any sort of equilateral partner...

Would we be fine if they retook Taiwan?
What about the Phillipines? What about Japan?

and 2). another roll reversal situation...
If we had their number of nukes (last reported to be around 400 ish), and they had ours around 5700 (I think)... Do you think that major cities in America would not be radioactive glass bowls by now? And would you still sleep as well? Just throwing it put there...

#34 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-04-04 12:06 AM | Reply

We haven't nuked them,and we love war. Why would they nuke us? We're their biggest market. You are projecting American values onto people who are not Americans. The Russians don't want the Ukraine, but they do want Crimea,which voted to rejoin them overwhelmingly. The elections have not been shown to be fraudulent or coerced.

Mind our own business,get our own house in order. We can't even police our own Capitol, what makes us think we can police Russia and Asia?

#35 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-04 12:16 AM | Reply

@#34

Re: China - Yup. No significant disagreement.

But China is a different thread than this.

For some reason a poster seems to want to deflect this thread away from Russia.

Hmmmmm....

Pleasant dreams. :)


#36 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 12:17 AM | Reply

How many people in Europe has Putin ordered poisoned? How many countries in Europe has he invaded to expand Russia? How many first world elections has he meddled in or attempted to have overthrown?

#37 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 12:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

He learned it all from us. We've been doing it all to Russia,Iran,Iraq, Vietnam,most of Latin America. What moral high ground are we on?

Your entire argument stinks of rank hypocrisy.

Russia is becoming competitive in world meddling and you don't like it one bit. Maybe we should have thought of that when we ------ with them in the early 1990s and expanded NATO into their freaking faces.

Maybe we don't like the shoe on the other foot. What comes around goes around. We are Not the Indispensable Nation,we don't See Further into the Future. We are losing power and influence as they rise. We should gracefully back off and really be a force for peace and tolerance.

Never Happen. War is all we know,we will die by the sword,at war with ourselves,and "Enemies" Abroad.

America is a lost soul,a force for evil in the world and we scarcely even notice day to day,we just consume too much and meddle too much,entitled brats that we are. Putin has no monopoly on "evil" his crimes are minor and local compared to our own as a nation and people.

#38 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-04 01:00 AM | Reply

The Taliban kicked Soviet then NATO ass.

They did that using guerilla tactics which work great on defense, but suck on offense.
The US should stop attacking countries, instead it should vaporize attacking Military. The US and Brits cleaned Saddam's clock in Kuwait and again when his army was in the field. But got bogged down once Iraqi's retreated to cities.

The US can easily eliminate invading forces in Ukraine, and they should if asked.

Biden should show Putin that he isn't going to run away like Trump did.

#39 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-04 01:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#38 ... America is a lost soul ...

I disagree. Strongly.

OK, maybe in light of the past four years, yes. Fmr Pres Trump's wrecking ball has destroyed a lot.

But I look more to the strategic direction than than the tactical.

#40 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 01:11 AM | Reply

What invading forces? Russia hasn't moved. They are only being provocative in manner, mimicking the NATO war games in Poland and the Baltics. Russia isn't pushing us,we are pushing them. You keep calling defensive manouvers offensive,but WHEN NATO does the same thing it's A OK.

Both sides should back the eff off. NATO has no modern reason for existing,the Warsaw Pact is long dead,most of its members are in NATO now.

Russia has more to fear from A western attack than we do from them. We are the ones being paranoid here.

#41 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-04 01:13 AM | Reply

@#41 ... What invading forces? Russia hasn't moved. ...

You contradict yourself.

You say they haven't moved.

Yet in the next sentence you say they are being provocative.

So have they not moved, or are they being provocative?

#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 01:24 AM | Reply

@#41 ... Russia isn't pushing us,we are pushing them. ...

Russia is building up their forces in the border area.

NATO is deciding to counter Russia's increasing forces.

How can you say that Russia is not pushing us, that we are pushing them?

#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 01:28 AM | Reply

#41 Russian forces are at the border and that is okay. If they cross over, unleash hell. They did that in Syria when Russian forces attacked a US base. Then Putin tugged Reek's chain and told him to evacuate the base and let the Russians take it.

#44 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-04 01:33 AM | Reply

Both. They are flexing,showing us the limits of our power. They are countering our aggression with their own. This is extremely dangerous for everyone. We should back off as we are the invading power here. Russia is in their own yard, so to speak. They have more to lose if everything goes to ----. They also have more staying power in the event of an extended war.

They are mentally tougher than we are. More invested, as it's their home, not even our Continent. We are Interlopers there. Meddlers.

#45 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-04 01:37 AM | Reply

@#45 ... They are flexing ...

You had said that the Russia forces haven't moved.

Yet now you admit they are "flexing."

Your comments are beginning to look like those of Baghdad Bob.


#46 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 01:43 AM | Reply

Tubes - What do you want from life?
www.youtube.com

"... A microwave oven, don't watch the food cook ..."

#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 02:04 AM | Reply

You're the one pushing for involvement. Let Europe be Europe. I doubt open war will break out. If it does it's a European war. They have weapons and Militaries. Why is it our fight even if it happens? Honest question. NATO has no reason to exist anymore. It's just a proxy for American meddling in eastern Europe. It's just a way to foment war at this time. We have no real business in Europe east of the Elbe. The Germans are more than capable of providing security if we left Europe as a Military presence Altogether. They just are afraid of becoming a little too eager.

#48 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-04 02:38 AM | Reply

"NATO has no reason to exist anymore. It's just a proxy for American meddling in eastern Europe."

That's all it ever was.

Haven't you seen Network?

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-04 02:54 AM | Reply

@#48 ... You're the one pushing for involvement. ...

For starters, you may want to indicate the comment to whcih you refer.

... NATO has no reason to exist anymore. ...

Woof.

I would disagree.

Strongly.

Russia's current actions justify, more than ever, NATO's reason to exist.

With fmr Pres Trump out of office, Pres Putin needs other avenues.....

But I do give you major props for putting that up front.

Though I do think your handler may have a differing view....



#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 02:58 AM | Reply

"Russia is becoming competitive in world meddling and you don't like it one bit."

Who does like that, other than Russia?

Do you want more Polonium?
Because this is how you get more Polonium.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-04 03:00 AM | Reply

Why does America fear a multi-polar world?
#16 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Ask somebody who left Russia or China if they think Russia or China should have more influence, at the cost of America's influence.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-04 03:08 AM | Reply

Industry - State of the nation
www.youtube.com

...

#53 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 03:18 AM | Reply

China has been putting serious investment into their infrastructure.

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2021-04-03 10:44 PM | FLAG:

A volley of stealth cruise missiles into the Three Gorges Dam and China is crippled.

#54 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-04 09:33 AM | Reply

One thing the US mastered is crippling a nation's infrastructure. We're so OCD about it we have bombs designed to spew out conductive ribbons to short out powerlines without destroying them.

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-04 09:34 AM | Reply

Russia is about to lose a proxy war.

#56 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 11:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Besides using them to put pressure on the US (And the U.S.'s failure to marshall TPP), I don't understand what China want's with Russia.

China is like that up and coming NBA draft pick and Russia is like his dirtbag friends from back home.

#57 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-04-04 11:31 AM | Reply

Russia is a mob nation. So is China. New age monarchies. They want to exploit other countries, much like European colonialists did in the past. They will support each other as they don't directly compete, Russia is pushing East and Southeast. China is going Southwest and Africa.

Free societies need to resist the attempts at exploitation, or they will lose their freedom.

#58 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-04 01:32 PM | Reply

Russia and China both have the high moral ground compared to the USA. Lol.

#12 | Posted by Effeteposer

You are delusional. Not that I am under any illusion and I don't disagree the US moral ground isn't all that great however to say either of those nations have higher moral ground is laughable.

#59 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-04-04 02:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Every time I begin following the thought that the US is just another imperialistic hegemonic behemoth, I have to remember that most of our military operations are simply in place to protect our energy and free-trade interests...and keeping an eye on our unfriendly economic/political competitors.

After the Spanish-American war in 1898, the US bought the Philippines for $20M, established the independence of Cuba, and was ceded Puerto Rico and Guam, but made the conscious decision not to treat them like imperial acquisitions, but as a quasi-independent countries and territories.

www.loc.gov

And when the USSR (and now Russia) complains of the US acting like imperialistic, capitalist pigs, I can't help but chuckle -- the USSR swallowing up all of eastern Europe and half of central Europe in the Warsaw Pact..not to mention all the Soviet Socialist Republics in Eurasia. To wit: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belorussia, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldavia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

Republics of the Soviet Union

#60 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-04 02:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

It was a red flag moment when Russia invaded Georgia without any provocation.

Unfortunately Bush was president.

#61 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 06:28 PM | Reply

Chalk this warning up to one more failure of the Trump administration to deliver on his promise to Vlady.

Trump promised to take the U.S. out of NATO to clear the road through Ukraine for Russia's expansion, which is probably the main reason Trump is fighting like a scared rabbit for another bite at the apple in 2024. I'm guessing he has a good reason to be scared. When dealing with a killer with no conscience, failure isn't an option.

#62 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-04-04 08:43 PM | Reply

Vlad is just upset that Trump lost... had all gone as planned, there would have been a US red carpet waiting for Putin in Ukraine.

As it is, he's liable to find Major Biden there ready to bite him in the ass.

#63 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 09:02 PM | Reply

CORKY

He tried to put himself at odds with NATO but chickened out. It was too soon. Vlad voted himself in to 2036 expecting Trump to get a second term in office, get rid of those crippling sanctions and cough up the military support he promised.

Opps

No wonder Mr. Putin is angry and tossing out threats like a pez dispenser.

#64 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-04-05 02:25 AM | Reply

#24 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Dumbest post in history. Congrats. You're number 1.

#65 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2021-04-05 03:49 PM | Reply

How is it so dumb? Russia was invaded, In 1812,in 1917,in 1941. They took tens of millions of causalities,they have reason to be leery about war games and missiles on Their western frontier. When has the USA Ever Been invaded on a similar scale? We get scared far more easily than most other nations given our isolation and Militarism. Explain why my post was Stupid,I don't see it.

#66 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-04-05 07:09 PM | Reply

EFFETE

President Biden doesn't look scared to me. With crippling sanctions and without the U.S. military help Trump promised, Vladimir is whistling past the graveyard.

If I was going to be scared it would be of who the RNC is going to pick to replace Trump in 2024 and keep those promises.

#67 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-04-06 04:55 AM | Reply

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