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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, April 03, 2021

By Peter Wehner, NYTimes

First-century Christians weren't prepared for what a truly radical and radically inclusive figure Jesus was, and neither are today's Christians. We want to tame and domesticate who he was, but Jesus' life and ministry don't really allow for it. He shattered barrier after barrier.

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Also at this link, if you can't get NYTimes.

outline.com

Also there's the debunking of the popular Easter = Ishtar myth:

"Bad History: For the Love of God, Easter does not come from Ishtar

Easter was originally a celebration of Ishtar

Except no it wasn't. If you want to trace the roots of Easter, you'll find in based on Jewish Passover (Pesach) the celebration of the holy spirit protecting the first born children of the Hebrews during the final plague in the book of Genesis' Exodus story."

mariacusumano.medium.com

Happy Passover!

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-03 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In a previous life (circa 1980's), I carpooled with a friend who was curious about ancient history.

He subscribed to a magazine, I think it was called Archaeological Digest, or something similar.

Anyway, he related to me that the letters to the editor of that publication were most interesting.

The magazine would publish the results of current archaeological digs, as scientists scrapped through dirt in the Middle East.

And the letters were from these religious folk who were saying that those scientists did not find what they had in their hands, because it would not agree with their religious beliefs.

Nowadays I look back on those conversations with my friend and wonder about fmr Pres Trump and what he has the GOP believing.

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 09:25 PM | Reply

I just wonder where the rabbit with the chocolate eggs came from.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-04-03 09:33 PM | Reply

en.wikipedia.org

...The Easter Bunny (also called the Easter Rabbit or Easter Hare) is a folkloric figure and symbol of Easter, depicted as a rabbit bringing Easter eggs. Originating among German Lutherans, the "Easter Hare" originally played the role of a judge, evaluating whether children were good or disobedient in behavior at the start of the season of Eastertide.[1] The Easter Bunny is sometimes depicted with clothes. In legend, the creature carries colored eggs in his basket, candy, and sometimes also toys to the homes of children, and as such shows similarities to Santa Claus or the Christkind, as they both bring gifts to children on the night before their respective holidays. The custom was first[2][unreliable source?] mentioned in Georg Franck von Franckenau's De ovis paschalibus[3] ('About Easter Eggs') in 1682, referring to a German tradition of an Easter Hare bringing Easter eggs for the children. ...

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 09:39 PM | Reply

Why do we have Easter eggs and the Easter bunny?
www.bbc.co.uk

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 09:41 PM | Reply

healing cripples?

healing women of constant menstruation?

converted Romans?

No wonder they wanted his head......

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-03 10:11 PM | Reply

@#6

Oh, there is so much wrong regarding religion nowadays.

In my view, it has strayed. Majorly.

Religion is not about tax-free bowling alleys.

But I suspect that may be a whole different thread...

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-03 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Chosen

studios.vidangel.com

Season One free... it's impressively done, obviously not about Supply-Side Jesus.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 12:02 AM | Reply

@#8

I am not sure what you are trying to show with that link.

I went there and it seems to be a solicitation for funding for various projects. For example, "offering equity"

More concerning, when I pressed the "prior link" button, that site prevented my browser from exiting the site.

That is not a behavior of a website that I consider to be appropriate.

#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 12:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If a minister is making more than a doctor from his ministry something is terribly wrong.

And that includes any minister who has a luxury car.

#10 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 12:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#10 WRONG.

www.youtube.com

#11 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-04-04 12:54 AM | Reply

#9

I had no problem using the site. What did you think of the series episode? Oh, wait.... never mind.

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 01:13 AM | Reply

@#12 ... What did you think of the series episode? ...

I clicked on the link provided.

I saw a list of projects offering equity.

So I am not sure what "series episode" you refer to.

...Oh, wait.... never mind. ...

I don't know what I might have said to elicit that level of apparent snark.

Can you explain?

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-04 01:20 AM | Reply

Tor,

"If a minister is making more than a doctor from his ministry something is terribly wrong."

Do you believe preachers must take a vow of poverty?

#14 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-04-04 04:13 AM | Reply

Do you believe preachers must take a vow of poverty?

#14 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

I wonder why Jesus did?

#15 | Posted by Zed at 2021-04-04 08:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#14

A friend of mine attends a church that doesn't believe in church property they have no churches and the pastors are unsalaried itinerant preachers. The "workers" basically own nothing but their clothes if they have a car it's loaned to them by members and they spend their nights in the members houses.

en.wikipedia.org

That is a bit about them but honestly information is hard to come by unless you know someone in the church. Even then they aren't evangelical and will pretty much only talk about it when asked so I question the accuracy of the wiki.

The couple of people in the church I met through him were some of the kindest most "Christian" people you could imagine meeting. So while I don't think a preacher has to take a vow of poverty, my one experience with a church where they do has been exceptionally positive so I would say it certainly helps.

#16 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-04 09:03 AM | Reply

I think it's obvious that that Jesus didn't live in luxury and that those seeking to speak on his behalf should follow his example.

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 11:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you're gettin' rich from preachin' chances are you'll go to Hell.

#18 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-04-04 12:32 PM | Reply

You can't be a rich preacher/pastor. Christ said to take up your cross and follow him. A pastor that is rich has no cross to bare.

#19 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-04-04 01:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Getting rich off the backs of the flock is nothing new. Paul commented about it in his letter to the new Corinthian church in Corinth, Greece. However, the medieval Catholic Christian churches seemed to deal with it by making priests celibate and employees subject to a vow of poverty. It's also been explained that another reason for relegating priests to celibacy and poverty was to avoid the concentration of hereditary wealth to a priest and his family. In Protestant Christian Churches such as the (Anglican) Church of England, vicars/curates/rectors are employees of C of E and paid a sinecure or stipend as compensation for their services in Holy Orders. To the best of my knowledge. Feel free to correct. American-Style Protestant churches are a mixed bag. From my observation, the Methodists and First Christian Churches rotate their pastors every two years and are paid by their respective denomination's central authority. In Evangelical-Charismatic churches, such as the First Assembly of God, the pastor is treated like a small businessman -- reaping the lion's share of the offerings and tithes, while sending a portion of the takings to the Assemblies of God headquarters in Springfield, IL as payment for the use of the term "Assembly of God" in the church name. All of them I knew were very, very unashamedly rich, drove Coup-de-Villes, and their kids drove brand-new Corvettes and DeLoreans. Their houses were mansions. In the AG church I was reared, the pastor built and owned the largest house in the county on a rural estate situated on the top of the biggest hill. He boasted it had 17 bedrooms and 17 bathrooms. It was later sold to Tammy Wynette when he was run out of town. Gold Rolex watches and multiple garish gold and diamond rings and bracelets were common. Yes, on the men.

Nevertheless, here are four translations of Paul's second epistle (letter) to the church at Corinth estimated to have been written around 55 AD (CE) while he was living in Macedonia:

--------------------------------------------------

Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

--2 Corinthians 2:17 (New International Version)

You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ's authority, knowing that God is watching us.

--2 Corinthians 2:17 (New Living Translation)

...and for the Catholics:

For we are not as many, adulterating the word of God; but with sincerity, but as from God, before God, in Christ we speak.

--Douay-Reims Translation

Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

--New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

Happy Easter

#20 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-04 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

- So I am not sure what "series episode" you refer to.

Um, the button that says, "Start Series 1".

(This is a Crowd-Funded TV series, so there are equities.)

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 04:18 PM | Reply

"Start Season 1"... should be

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 04:20 PM | Reply

The thread article is not very long, but well worth the read.... for anyone.

"For Christians, the incarnation is a story of God, in the person of Jesus, participating in the human drama. And in that drama Jesus was most drawn to the forsaken and despised, the marginalized, those who had stumbled and fallen. He was beloved by them, even as he was targeted and eventually killed by the politically and religiously powerful, who viewed Jesus as a grave threat to their dominance."

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 04:27 PM | Reply

#23, I don't think Jesus was a grave threat, more of a pain in the ass. I know it's Easter weekend and all that but the crucifixion wasn't novel. Pretty common event actually. Shouldn't have trashed the mall at the Temple. He could've preached and healed for decades more.

And he wasn't the only "saviour" running around at the time.

No offense intended to anyone.

#24 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-04 06:22 PM | Reply

I cannot remember who the expert was but years ago someone took a look at the geography as described in The Book of Mark and compared it against records from the era and found that whoever compose the book seem to have much better geographical knowledge of some areas than others and that their knowledge of geography consistently Got better the closer they got to the Sea of Galilee.

This fist perfectly with the theory that the Book of Mark was written by somebody who had listen to Peter speak extensively and did their best to keep notes while he talked.

#25 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 06:25 PM | Reply

Peter? The first Donald Trump. 3 times, never met the fellow , low energy.

#26 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-04 06:35 PM | Reply

It doesn't matter what film version I see of Peter's denial it's always intense he's terrified and when it ends does so with him feeling ashamed.

#27 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 06:50 PM | Reply

- I don't think Jesus was a grave threat

warontherocks.com

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 06:54 PM | Reply

FTA. Josephus mentions 40 people that claim to be the messiah in Jesus' time.

Hey people who really follow the teachings of Jesus, I have no problem with that. According to apostolic succession Peter has touched my head. Just saying there was a lot of things going on.

The destruction of the temple in 79AD was caused by the Jewish insurrection. Not Christians.

#29 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-04 07:11 PM | Reply

Tacitus Gave us one paragraph about Jesus but it confirms he existed was a religious leader created quite the stir in Jerusalem and was executed in a terrible fashion on order of Pontius Pilate during the reign of Augustus Tiberius.

#30 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-04 07:25 PM | Reply

- 40 people that claim to be the messiah in Jesus' time.

He, and others, also mention that only one of them drew yuge crowds and was considered a threat by both the Romans and the Jewish leaders.

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 07:31 PM | Reply

I know. I know. The pharisees also wanted to protect a fairly nice life too and were complicent. Executed in a terrible fashion, as were 1000's, not denigrating Jesus at all, just saying people act like they invented crucifixion for this fellow.

Today you're supposed to be saying

HE HAS RISEN

#32 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-04 07:34 PM | Reply

In defense of Pontias Pilate Judea was the -------- of the empire. When the Parthenians conquered Judea Herod had to take a dangerous winter sea journey to beg for a little help here.

And contrary to popular belief, Herod died in 4 BC.

Love JCSuperstar though.

#33 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-04-04 07:52 PM | Reply

#33

Contrary to popular belief, Jesus was born 4-6 BC.... and in Sept/Oct, not Dec.

This The Chosen series is quite good so far; I'm on Epi 5 now. The actor playing Christ has second billing to the one playing Simon Peter... the story is told from the POV of those around him, including Mary of Magdala. The producer is Dallas Jennings, and although I didn't care for his father's films, this one is pretty well done.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-04 08:56 PM | Reply

There were multiple Herods and yes Israel was considered the @ss into the empire.

#35 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-05 12:27 AM | Reply

White Washed Jesus Loves Everybody

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-05 09:48 AM | Reply

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Care to explain that one?

#37 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-04-05 10:13 AM | Reply

Faith (Faith and Works') by C.S. Lewis Doodle (BBC Talk 17, Mere Christianity, Bk 3, Chapter 11)

www.youtube.com

#38 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-05 02:06 PM | Reply

Do you believe preachers must take a vow of poverty?

#14 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You cannot live a truly human life without doing that. And you cannot expect to be an example to follow if you do cannot practice what you preach.

It has been said that we are part of nature but we cannot be truly natural humans otherwise.

This is also what Gandhi thought and taught and was one of the few who actually practiced what he preached as an example for others to follow. So they would know it can be done.

#39 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-04-05 02:22 PM | Reply

Christianity has continually been a progressive and evolving religion over the centuries as compared to other old religions.

Wouldn't it be ironic if over the next few decades gays found themselves able to be part of the faithful, and more accepted for who they are than the secular community that professes so much tolerance?

Many more conservative Christians are coming to terms with it than people realize.

I'm not talking about liberal Christians who discount the sinful nature of homosexuality in their doctrine.

I am talking about people who believe homosexual activity is a sin and that gay marriage is not within Gods parameter and will not change their beliefs.

So what do I mean then?

All people are sinners. That's what we believe. It's accepting Jesus as your Savior that matters. Not being sinless.

There are other sins in the Bible that traditionally have been on the same level as homosexuality in the past but today are not considered deal breakers to being saved or accepted as a Christian.

My point is today more conservative Christians are opening their hearts and their minds to the fact Jesus wants us all at the table.

We acknowledge our sinful nature and that we can not do it alone without Him.

#40 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-04-05 06:12 PM | Reply

"Christianity has continually been a progressive and evolving religion over the centuries as compared to other old religions."

LOL.

The rapture is an eschatological theological position held by some Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end-time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with resurrected believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

en.wikipedia.org

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-05 07:52 PM | Reply

"sinful nature" includes everything from anger to jealousy to envy to pride to sloth to greed to gluttony... and much more.

The problem has been so-called conservative Christians picking out certain behaviors as worse than others... while embracing as "normal" most of the above list.

#42 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-05 08:01 PM | Reply

The Monty Python guys before writing the Life of Brian read the New Testament and a series of books on theology.

They came away from the reading surprised that they supported the morality promoted by Christ.

#43 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-05 08:15 PM | Reply

Corky,

"The problem has been so-called conservative Christians picking out certain behaviors as worse than others"

That behavior goes on with more than just conservative Christians.

Look at politics the way we'll condemn the same behavior in one politician and not another.

Regarding Christians, the problem is not just conservative Christians. It's all Christians who end up picking and choosing which verses they want to emphasize and which they will overlook. It's not even just Christianity.

But I guess you might say "it's worse when Christians do it"....hmm....where did I just read that?

I think there's a built-in dichotomy in being human.

We do wrong things we know we shouldn't that conflict with our self-image. Messes with our heads.

We pick and choose which rules to live by, which rules we don't agree with and which ones we agree with but will still ignore.

Don't pin this human conflict on just conservative Christians.

#44 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-04-05 09:39 PM | Reply

#40

It's called love the sinner but hate the sin. It's been one of my understanding of Christ's teachings that I think is foundational.

It's one of the things that most bothers me about most evangelical churches. They are quick to condemn the sinner and reject them, which of course is the opposite of evangelical. Jesus didn't preach just to the devout instead he spent his life amongst the sinners. How can you expect to help someone find salvation if you turn your back on them?

The fact, as you pointed out, that they also pick and choose what sins are worthy of turning your back on just makes it worse. If Jesus worked that way there wouldn't be Christianity since we are all sinners he would have turned his back on everyone he ever met and not had a single follower since not one of us is free from sin. I would bet for a majority of Christians not a day goes by without a sin or twelve.

#45 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-05 10:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#44

I was just pinning what you said on you.

- which rules

Is not the point.

My suggestion for you would to be to watch the link in #38 of CS Lewis in 1942 from Mere Christianity.

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 01:48 AM | Reply

"Many more conservative Christians are coming to terms with it than people realize."

Why don't they "realize"?? Maybe it's not real. So it can't be "ized".

Actions speak louder than words.

I will believe it when I see it.

Haven't seen it. Yet.

#47 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-04-06 09:43 AM | Reply

If 1st century Jesus was around today, he'd be getting beat up at protests by racist cops or white supremacist's.

#48 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-04-06 01:36 PM | Reply

It's always strange when people forget that Jesus was an ethnic minority and that the authorities really did beat him.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 02:25 PM | Reply

Jesus was an Orthodox Jew possibly in league with the Essenes.

www.heartscenter.org

#50 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-06 03:07 PM | Reply

"An Aquarian Essene Community"

Crystal Fundie Jesus, lol. There's no evidence that Jesus had anything to do with the Essenes. There is some evidence that he traveled with his Roman citizen great uncle, Joseph of Arimathea to Britain.

www.bbc.co.uk

theconversation.com

That was during, as John Prine put it, Jesus, the Missing Years, lol.

www.youtube.com

#51 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 04:00 PM | Reply

Jesus was an Orthodox Jew possibly in league with the Essenes.

www.heartscenter.org

#50 | Posted by madscientist

Sects in those times were identified by their clothing. He certainly dressed like an Essene and practiced their communal system.

#52 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-06 05:11 PM | Reply

The people would not have reacted to Jesus's words as they did if his philosophy was common.

#53 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 05:23 PM | Reply

Much of the modern speculation about Jesus and the Essenes comes from readings by Edgar Casey.... which should tell us something about their veracity.

bibleinterp.arizona.edu

#54 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 05:55 PM | Reply

Edgar Cayce

#55 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 05:56 PM | Reply

If Jesus wasn't an Essene, he was heavily influenced by them. According to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Essenes and Jesus' inner circle shared many of the same beliefs and communal tenets and structures.

#56 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-06 06:35 PM | Reply

If Jesus is beliefs were among the most common in Jerusalem his words would have had little to no impact on the listeners

#57 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 06:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If Jesus is beliefs were among the most common in Jerusalem his words would have had little to no impact on the listeners

#58 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 06:56 PM | Reply

Jesus of Nazareth.
What a good Jewish boy he is.
But, he never calls his mother.
--Mary

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 07:03 PM | Reply

One of my favorite descriptions of Jesus comes from the author of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Yes I know he was an atheist but it's so brief to the point and accurate.

#60 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 07:23 PM | Reply

#56 |

Most scholars would tell you not, as per the link in 54. Now, his cousin, Mary's sister's son John the Baptist, dressed for the desert like an Essene, but still, John's message was much different than the Essenes.

earlychurchhistory.org

www.bibleodyssey.org

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 07:28 PM | Reply

Also

www.britannica.com

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-06 07:32 PM | Reply

Took me ages to figure out that John the Baptist was killed in part because Herod viewed him as property rather than a person.

#63 | Posted by Tor at 2021-04-06 08:44 PM | Reply

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