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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, April 06, 2021

A 51-year-old former public servant from Texas served as her own lawyer and won a personal bankruptcy ruling that erased her $41,509 in student loan debt.

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Somehow I doubt a person in their 20s or 30s could win such relief.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 08:55 AM | Reply

After her legal victory and successful fresh start, Adams is now considering law school.

And $150K in fresh debt...

I'm curious how the math works out in her case for her principle to grow that much that quickly.

In any case the story primarily highlights one of the biggest problems with student loads today-the interest rates.

Given how secure the loans are there's no reason a company should be able to charge interest rates greater than one pays for a mortgage. I think it would be easy to form a moral argument around that same point as well.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 09:02 AM | Reply

Thank God I escaped with only $5500 in Stafford Student loans. I've read today that even state universities are so expensive, $100,000 in loans are normal. So, instead of putting that towards a mortgage, you have to live as a rentier for 10-20 years before settling down. These guys don't miss a trick to tie-down the youth by any means necessary. At least in my day it was the proliferation of easily-obtained credit cards at 21% APR.

#3 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-06 09:13 AM | Reply

In the 90s, Republicans pushed privatizing student loan lending and ending bankruptcy options for Student Loans all on the promise it would substantially lower the costs associated with student loans.

It hasn't.

#4 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-04-06 11:53 AM | Reply

FYI: Highest-income households: owe 60% of outstanding student loan debt and make about 75% of all student loan payments. Lowest-income households: owe less than 20% of outstanding student loan debt and make only of student loan payments.Oct 25, 2020

Student Loans"Who Really Owes $1.6 Trillion Of Debt? - Forbeswww.forbes.com zackfriedman 2020 w...

#5 | Posted by MSgt at 2021-04-06 01:59 PM | Reply

^ and?

#6 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 03:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#2

My student loan is (was) at a lower rate than my mortgage. I had 2 one was a bit higher than my mortgage but was almost paid off the other was lower. When I bought my house my mortgage broker was like we can roll all your debt onto the mortgage and I declined because I have no credit card debt and my student loans were either almost paid off or lower rates.

I'm glad I didn't since for the past year student loan interest has been 0. Thanks to that my last loan will be paid off in November.

#7 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-06 04:15 PM | Reply

"FYI: Highest-income households: owe 60% of outstanding student loan debt and make about 75% of all student loan payments."

Yeah.
It's not really news that getting an education also gets you more money.
For most people, I'd wager that's why they get an education in the first place.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 04:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Thanks to that my last loan will be paid off in November."

I'm waiting to see if there is any relief, rather than pay it off and throw my money away for nothing. Normal gubmint loans (which are in fact privately serviced) are in forbearance with zero interest through September:

"COVID-19 Emergency Relief Flexibilities Extended Through at Least Sept. 30, 2021" studentaid.gov

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 04:31 PM | Reply

My student loan is (was) at a lower rate than my mortgage. I had 2 one was a bit higher than my mortgage but was almost paid off the other was lower

Mine are like that too. My undergrad loans are still at about 2.6% so Ive slow played paying those off.

The few loans I took in grad school (after Repubs raised interest rates on student loans) at at 6.6% or something. Been focused more on those.

Unfortunately only one of my loans is in forbearance for COVID.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 04:39 PM | Reply

I'm in the high sixes on mine too. If I pay the just the minimum, I'll literally never touch the principal. It's a racket.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 04:46 PM | Reply

I'm very liberal but repaying student loans doesn't feel right to me.

Yes student loans are predatory and the cost of college is a scam.

But some people didn't fall for those loans or worked hard to pay them back. So all that hard work was for nothing and they could have just gotten them repaid for free? Lots more people would have gone to college if they'd have known the costs would be paid for. What about them?

Rather than just giving tons of money for people who were gullible enough to get trapped by predatory lenders, we should just give UBI to everyone across the board, college and non college, loans or no loans. At least then no one is penalized for being responsible and hardworking.

#12 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-04-06 06:21 PM | Reply

College costs have skyrocketed so much that it causes a real hindrance on the next several generations. People aren't graduating with 10 or 20K of debt. We are talking mortgages worth of debt. Most decent jobs are looking for college degrees too. Not everyone is cut out for working in trades or stem fields either so they end up with business degrees or something like that. They end up making 40 something grand out of college. Trying to pay 100 grand of student loans means they are stuck living at home for a long time. 50 grand of forgiveness at least budges the giant rock in their path to success.

#13 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-04-06 06:37 PM | Reply

"We are talking mortgages worth of debt."

At the very least, shiny new Ford F-150 pickup truck amounts of debt.

If I weren't making a truck sized payment every month I could buy a house. Or rather, a studio condo in San Diego.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 06:45 PM | Reply

"But some people didn't fall for those loans or worked hard to pay them back. So all that hard work was for nothing and they could have just gotten them repaid for free?"

It's likewise unfair to everyone who got polio that they did not the polio vaccine like we did.

But that's not a good enough reason to not wipe out polio.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 06:47 PM | Reply

"Lots more people would have gone to college if they'd have known the costs would be paid for. What about them?"

What about them?

You have to take chances to get ahead in life.

Like taking the chance your degree will be useless and won't get you a job

I wouldn't mind some kind of means testing on loan forgiveness. But there should be little doubt that people paying their loans off would put that money to economic activity with a much higher multiplier effect if they could spend that much on, say, a mortgage.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 06:59 PM | Reply

#12 full write-off of student loans is a moral hazard and not fair to those that really sacrificed to get out of debt or gave up on school.

A better option might be negative interest rates on the debt. The burden dissipates if you are struggling, but paying it off quickly still makes sense.

#17 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-06 07:00 PM | Reply

This post is a great validation of everything I have posted about Democrats being economic losers - with the biggest losers shouting the loudest that they know best how to run the country despite the complete mess they have made of their personal lives.

Exhibits A and B - JPW and Snoofy.

Both middle aged men still paying off student loan debt and praying for a government bailout to save them from their own stupid life choices. Despite not being able to manage their own lives though, the want to talk about economic theories and US budget policies - you guys can't even manage your own cell phone bills, rent, and student loan payment - you need to leave the government talk to someone else.

And our exhibits A and B are the Democrat party in a nutshell. A party of economic losers being controlled by the top 0.01% and being convinced to support policies that suppress their own wages through mass illegal immigration, global free trade, H1B visa expansion, and instilling woke theology into their university education rather than actually teaching useful skills.

For me, I graduated from undergrad debt free. I worked and lived LIKE A STUDENT. I had about $20K in student loans (graduated in 2000 in the face of the tech recession) after I graduated from grad school which I paid off in about a year and a half. When I finished grad school, I did not live like a mid-career professional. I lived like someone starting out in their career - no new cars, no European vacations, no drug habits. It really isn't that difficult. Taking out $100K in student loans from a non-top 20 school for an undergraduate degree is the equivalent of choosing to be a teen mom. What we need is an audit for the maximum allowable loan by degree field and college ranking. If you want to attend a non-top 100 school in a low paying degree field - max student loans at about $5k/year. That is what the education is worth.

#18 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 07:24 PM | Reply

"Both middle aged men still paying off student loan debt"

I only graduated a few years ago, how quickly did you think I was going to pay it off?

And as JPW mentioned, the vig on his undergrad loan is so low, he is better off paying the minimum and investing the difference somewhere that gets more than 2%, for example the stock market last year.

I know a middle aged MD/Ph.D still paying off his loans. And his loans dwarf mine. I'll tell him he's a loser too!

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 07:30 PM | Reply

"#19 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

How old are you Snoofy?

#20 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 07:32 PM | Reply

no new cars, no European vacations, no drug habits.

Yeah I'm always out there buying new cars and taking European vacations.

Admittedly, my drug habit does keep me going back to the coffee aisle in the supermarket. Sometimes I even buy cream and sugar. I am a cancer on society.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 07:32 PM | Reply

"#21 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

How old are you? After you tell me, I will explain to you why life didn't work out the way you intended and why the college system is now broken.

#22 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 07:36 PM | Reply

18

Unloaded both barrels on those guys.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-06 07:52 PM | Reply

#23 too bad he's shooting blanks as usual.

--------------- is the kind of ---- to thinks having a regular job is an accomplishment and working g hard something to brag about as if it sets him apart.

He's a mundane, average loser who has outsized views of his worth and stature.

#24 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 08:19 PM | Reply

"#23 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

Looks like Snoofy is running from me now but it is important that he, and others like him, hear this message.

The reason why you have failed economically is that the college system is blending 'credential' with 'education'. What you are receiving now is a 'credential' only as the education provided has been so dumbed down that it is no longer respected. Rather than having a college degree (any degree from any school) mean the holder at least was capable of basic understanding of math and English as well as being able to accept instruction for 4 years (show up on time, complete assignments on time) as the degree meant 20 years ago - now the degree means nothing. As an employer, I know that there is no guarantee on the basic understanding and with online classes and safe spaces, there is no guarantee that the person is capable of showing up on time and doing independent work. So what does your degree provide you? That is why people laugh at "Doctor" Jill Biden. Her thesis is written at the 6th grade level.

Which brings me to Snoofy and his 'going back to school'. Snoofy - you are already middle aged. You should have enough in savings to attend grad school without additional debt. So, already one strike against you. Further, as a mid-career guy, your on the job performance is way more meaningful than another piece of paper. Again, NO ONE believes a grad school degree actually teaches your much of anything. So, you now have your piece of paper but you are stuck with the same on the job performance that put you in your poor situation. Thus, what did you gain from that 'education'? As a mid-career professional, the only purpose of grad school is for networking opportunities - and with you still struggling with student loans, it is clear you did not achieve that either.

#25 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 08:30 PM | Reply

"thinks having a regular job is an accomplishment and working g hard something to brag about as if it sets him apart.
#24 | POSTED BY JPW"

Having a job and working hard is not something to brag about, is the low bar of being a functional adult. Unfortunately, those 2 things do set me apart from Democrat party voters and the posters on this board. Again, you are an economic loser as stated with your comments on your continuing student loan problems. Yet, you still have an inflated sense of self for some unknown reasons. That is what makes you so bitter towards your economic betters. You cannot admit that they advanced because they are smarter or willing to work harder than you. For you, it was all luck or racism somehow.

#26 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 08:38 PM | Reply

"The reason why you have failed economically is that the college system is blending 'credential' with 'education'."

Oh what a relief!

And here I thought it was my fault.

But it turns out it's 'the college system."

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 08:42 PM | Reply

brevity is the soul of wit, goat values.

is anyone reading these novels he's writing?

#28 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2021-04-06 08:47 PM | Reply

is anyone reading these novels he's writing?

No.

#29 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-04-06 08:54 PM | Reply

I'm waiting for the movie to come out.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 09:02 PM | Reply

"brevity is the soul of wit"

It is not meant to be witty.

"is anyone reading these novels he's writing?
#28 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE "

That is the catch 22. People that are not economic losers - read them but do not need to do so. Those that are economic losers - don't read them and need to read them. But, this difference is exactly why they are the economic losers. You are lazy and already feel like you know everything. You are a like a 15 year old kid thinking your parents and grandparents are stupid. That is why another degree just lands you more debt and the same dismal job prospects.

#31 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 09:12 PM | Reply

I logged out and read the whole thread.

------- funny........LOL

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-06 09:29 PM | Reply

Again, you are an economic loser as stated with your comments on your continuing student loan problems

I did? Which post?

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 10:22 PM | Reply

------- funny........LOL

Funny?

Cringeworthy.

--------------- is that awkward guy in the movie you feel embarrassed for because you see what an idiot he's going to be before he does something.

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 10:23 PM | Reply

You are lazy and already feel like you know everything.

Finally something funny!

--------------- thinks his ascension from the trailer park to a McMansion, a beer gut and swelling ankles means he has something to teach people!

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 10:25 PM | Reply

"I did? Which post?
#33 | POSTED BY JPW"

When you posted that you still have undergrad and grad school debt as a middle age guy. Sorry, that makes you an economic loser.

#36 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 10:34 PM | Reply

Don't feel bad, JPW.
Obama is an economic loser too.
So is Ted Cruz.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 10:44 PM | Reply

"Obama is an economic loser too.
So is Ted Cruz.
#37 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Both are just losers in general. If not for politics, they would be homeless.

#38 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 10:53 PM | Reply

Surely you are aware how much debt the United States holds.

Are we a loser nation?

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 10:54 PM | Reply

"Sorry, that makes you an economic loser."

How is it a losing move to pay the minimum on a two percent loan, and invest the extra money that could service that debt into something with a much higher rate of return?

Please show your math.

Thanks.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 10:56 PM | Reply

When you posted that you still have undergrad and grad school debt as a middle age guy. Sorry, that makes you an economic loser.

#36 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

That's not what you said.

You said I had trouble with my loans.

Are you moving the goal posts because you know you lied or because you just realized how poor your reading comprehension is?

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:05 PM | Reply

How is it a losing move to pay the minimum on a two percent loan, and invest the extra money that could service that debt into something with a much higher rate of return?

Dumb ---- also doesn't know that paths through life exist outside of the miserable, unremarkable and mundane one he took.

Because I went to grad school my loans were interest free and no payment required until I was done and moved on to my post doc.

Why would I pay down 0% interest debt while living on a grad student stipend?

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:12 PM | Reply

I'll just leave this here.
2020 is what happens when Republicans are in charge of the country.
fred.stlouisfed.org

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 11:13 PM | Reply

"Why would I pay down 0% interest debt"

Ask TaoWarrior. He's been doing exactly that.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 11:14 PM | Reply

I get it, though.

--------------- is just desperate to not be a loser of any sort.

He was probably a business major and a dime a dozen MBA doing worthless scut work.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:15 PM | Reply

-You said I had trouble with my loans.

How many did you have? How much? How old are you?

I couldn't imagine carrying student loan debt for more than 5 years. Seemed like a bad deal to go longer. Top schools are a different story, I imagine.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-06 11:19 PM | Reply

-He was probably a business major and a dime a dozen MBA doing worthless scut work.

Don't fall off your high horse there,

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-06 11:20 PM | Reply

Ask TaoWarrior. He's been doing exactly that.

#44 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

If I had the financial resources to do so I probably would have too.

But when you're making $26K as a grad student? Nah that career path is a known late payoff. Having some spending money for the free time I actually had was more important.

BTW none of that includes new cars, vacations or drug habits. If --------------- didn't have stereotypes he'd have nothing at all.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:20 PM | Reply

"Why would I pay down 0% interest debt while living on a grad student stipend?
#42 | POSTED BY JPW"

Again - you are a middle age guy - why are you back in grad school at all? That said, why are you on a student stipend vs. working a real job?

You and Snoofy are like 'failure to launch' if the dude was stuck in his mom's basement.

The sad reality for you is that you have screwed up in life and your career has not progressed how you wanted it to. So, much like the original loser in this story, you thought another credential will solve all your problems. Much like the loser in this story, your added credential will do nothing to improve your economic lot in life because your problem is with your on the job performance.

So, I look forward to your increasing wailing about student loan forgiveness as the bills continue to come due.

#49 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 11:21 PM | Reply

Don't fall off your high horse there,

#47 | POSTED BY EBERLY

The funny thing about trying to climb the pedestal is it's easy to cut your legs out from beneath you.

Taking a common, easy path doesn't leave you much room to brag about how special you are.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:22 PM | Reply

How many did you have? How much? How old are you?
I couldn't imagine carrying student loan debt for more than 5 years. Seemed like a bad deal to go longer. Top schools are a different story, I imagine.

#46 | POSTED BY EBERLY

The bulk is from undergrad. Again, at 2.6%. Zero percent until I finished grad school.

I'm 38. Payments weren't required until I was 29.

You also don't understand the dynamic of a postdoc.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:26 PM | Reply

Again - you are a middle age guy - why are you back in grad school at all? That said, why are you on a student stipend vs. working a real job?

I'm not, idiot.

God damn your reading comprehension is ----.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:30 PM | Reply

Again - you are a middle age guy - why are you back in grad school at all? That said, why are you on a student stipend vs. working a real job?

I'm not, idiot.

God damn your reading comprehension is ----.

The sad reality for you is that you have screwed up in life and your career has not progressed how you wanted it to.

So please, tell me what I do and what I planned on doing. I'm all ears.

So, much like the original loser in this story, you thought another credential will solve all your problems.

I went straight from undergrad to grad school. I was a doctor by the time I turned 30.

Try again, -------.

Much like the loser in this story, your added credential will do nothing to improve your economic lot in life because your problem is with your on the job performance.

Again, tell me what I do for a living and how it could be improved.

So, I look forward to your increasing wailing about student loan forgiveness as the bills continue to come due.

#49 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

I'm not for loan forgiveness. I see the benefits of it but I think the problem is multi-factoral and other things should be addressed first.

I know that because I'm actually familiar with the topic and not just spouting off shallow nonsense you think make you sound informed.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:30 PM | Reply

One of my best friend's older brother is a PhD at Northwestern University. Research.

He explained the post doc path to me.

It takes a while. Requires a lot of dedication.

We never got into the debt part which I'm sure he had.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-06 11:32 PM | Reply

Hey ebs, are you going to whine about ---------------' high horse regarding people going back to school?

Or do you think everybody should just take the easy road, get a business degree and aim for that McMansion as their ultimate goal in life?

#55 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:35 PM | Reply

He explained the post doc path to me.
It takes a while. Requires a lot of dedication.

Average 5-6 years (at least for biological sciences).

Pay is poor and hours are long.

When I started mine the average post doc salary in my field was about $39K. And that was at a large, prestigious research institution. Finally improved during my years but NIH guidelines are just that, guidelines. There are no requirements.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:41 PM | Reply

"Again - you are a middle age guy"
I'm not, idiot.

Dude - you are pushing 40, that is middle aged. That is why you have your pony tail paired with male pattern baldness.

"So please, tell me what I do and what I planned on doing."

So your plan all along was to make $26k at age 38 with loans loans your can't pay? Sorry, maybe you are that dumb.

"I went straight from undergrad to grad school. I was a doctor by the time I turned 30."

You are a 'doctor' like Jill Biden is a 'doctor'. It is a meaningless credential which is why you are making $26K at the age of 38. And I am curious - which university and which program? I assumed outside the top 20 schools in your field and your degree utterly irrelevant or you would have actual career prospects.

"Again, tell me what I do for a living and how it could be improved."

You are a professional student - and apparently, not a very good one which is why you have loans rather than scholarships. How could you improve your lot in life? Go back in time to age 18 and get a full time gig at CostCo - you will wind up with a much higher net worth that all your schooling at making $26K/year at the age of 38.

#57 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 11:42 PM | Reply

"I couldn't imagine carrying student loan debt for more than 5 years."

I'm assuming you mean five years after you graduate, not five years after you get your first loan.

Anyway I expect my loans to be paid off within about 18 months or so. All student loan forgiveness will do is make it happen sooner, and save me about fifty grand.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 11:44 PM | Reply

"I know that there is no guarantee on the basic understanding and with online classes and safe spaces, there is no guarantee that the person is capable of showing up on time and doing independent work"

Graduate school is all about learning to do independent work.
Showing up on time is more of an undergrad thing.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 11:46 PM | Reply

"Again - you are a middle age guy"
I'm not, idiot.

I'm not in grad school, numb nuts.

You must have gotten your degrees at Trump U because you sound like an illiterate moron.

You are a 'doctor' like Jill Biden is a 'doctor'.

LOL no. A doctor as in a PhD. An actual doctor.

God you're an illiterate ----.

#57 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Are you really this stupid?

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:48 PM | Reply

#59 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Still waiting on your age there Snoofy. My guess is you are pushing 50.

#61 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-06 11:48 PM | Reply

How old are you, ---------------?

Does your McMansion have hollow plastic doors or cheap pine?

#62 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-06 11:53 PM | Reply

"One of the recurring themes in Biden's dissertation is that students arrive in college unprepared for college-level work." www.forbes.com

Sounds like something Family_Values might say...
LOL

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-06 11:59 PM | Reply

"I'm not in grad school, numb nuts."

It is even worse. You are making $26K after finishing grad school. Dude, you would have a much higher net worth had you joined as the fry cook at In-N-Out.

"You must have gotten your degrees at Trump U because you sound like an illiterate moron."

University of Minnesota - undergrad
University of Illinois - grad school
Stanford - specialty studies in RF design

"LOL no. A doctor as in a PhD. An actual doctor."

Yeah, so not a real doctor. Glad you clarified that Doctor Jill.

#64 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:00 AM | Reply

"Does your McMansion have hollow plastic doors or cheap pine?
#62 | POSTED BY JPW"

Which one? They are great investments. Also have apartment buildings in the downtown area of a major CA city. Don't really care too much about the material used for the doors though.

By the time you get your life together, I will happily sell you one of my McMansion at about 3x what I paid for it.

#65 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:03 AM | Reply

It is even worse. You are making $26K after finishing grad school.

No wonder you stuck to state schools.

You're an idiot.

Yeah, so not a real doctor.

A PhD isn't a real doctor?

It's actually a higher ranking degree than an MD because it's a terminal degree.

Why else do you think it's listed after the MD for MD, PhDs?

Is there any topic you're not an illiterate moron on?

#66 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:04 AM | Reply

#65 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

So you're a slumlord then?

Figures.

#67 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:05 AM | Reply

It sure seems like everything about Family_Values is a zero-sum game.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:08 AM | Reply

What a sad, shallow life you must lead if money is the only measure of success for you.

I'm sure you're the life of every party.

#69 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:10 AM | Reply

"Stanford - specialty studies in RF design"

Andrea, a mattress, is that you?

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:11 AM | Reply

It sure seems like everything about Family_Values is a zero-sum game.

#68 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It's also cheap talk.

Anybody can say anything on an anonymous internet forum.

What is said means more than the specifics.

Like that ------- thinking he's hot ---- because he supposedly owns apartment buildings.

Good for him. Means nothing even if it's true.

#71 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:13 AM | Reply

"Also have apartment buildings in the downtown area of a major CA city."

Ira Goldberg has apartment buildings in the downtown area of Sacramento.

Hey Schittsburg, how did your guarantee about Trump getting 20% of the black vote turn out? How about the Durham Report: will Brennan and Comey be frog-marched soon? And will the Durham Report come out before, or after the November 2020 election?

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-04-07 12:16 AM | Reply

"No wonder you stuck to state schools."

Stanford is a state school? News to me. Regardless, I could have paid more but my schools were ranked top 25 for the programs I chose. Seems to have worked out about a millions times better than you path. Again - which private school did you attend? You don't sound smart enough to attend an Ivy and I doubt the top tier non-Ivy would touch you (Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago) and you ------ state schools, I can only image you overpaid for a private degree from a school outside the top 25 - which is why you are drowning is student debt and your skills are only worth $26K/year.

"Yeah, so not a real doctor.
A PhD isn't a real doctor?"

I think I have made that clear already "Doctor" Jill.

"It's actually a higher ranking degree than an MD because it's a terminal degree."

Great - so why do you make less than 1/8th of the salary? Hell, you could have gotten your doctorate in divinity and you would make more. Either you picked a horrible school, were a horrible student, or are a phd in an utterly useless field.

#73 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:19 AM | Reply

What is it about landlords that makes them Trumpers?

I guess Trump seems like a winner if you're big into exploiting people.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:20 AM | Reply

"What is it about landlords that makes them Trumpers?
#74 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

1.) means we have money
2.) means we deal with 2 types of tenants:

- those that are transitory on their way to home ownership (future Trumpers)
- those that are the deadbeat -------- (Democrats) looking for a handout and always trying to run from their obligations

Thankfully for me, my units are all in the top 15% of rents where I own so I don't have to deal with the --------.

The more money you have and the more you deal with --------, the more you realize liberal policies helped to create the --------. And given we have money, meaning we ultimately pay the bills for everything, we want to get these policies fixed.

#75 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:29 AM | Reply

Andrea, a mattress, is that you?

Nothing of value would be lost if Incel Fatherg used nulli's razor blade to ---- his limp wrists.

#76 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-04-07 12:30 AM | Reply

Stanford is a state school? News to me.

A program isn't a degree.

Regardless, I could have paid more but my schools were ranked top 25 for the programs I chose.

Ooohhhh top 25. Wow.

Seems to have worked out about a millions times better than you path.

You've yet to show you actually know what my path was.

Again - which private school did you attend? You don't sound smart enough to attend an Ivy and I doubt the top tier non-Ivy would touch you (Stanford, Northwestern, Chicago) and you ------ state schools,

My undergrad degree was at a state school.

Because even with the scholarships to the high end private school it was almost as much as I'd spend in four years at the state school for one year. Terrible economic sense, huh?

Everything else has been at top tier institutions. I won't say which because it would be very easy to track me down with that information.

drowning is student debt

Never said that either.

and your skills are only worth $26K/year.

Still can't comprehend what I've said.

Which is why I doubt you own ----. You're way too stupid and illiterate to do much.

#77 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:31 AM | Reply

"The more money you have and the more you deal with --------, the more you realize liberal policies helped to create the --------."

Interesting idea, but how does it work?
Which liberal policies created people like Trump?

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:37 AM | Reply

"My undergrad degree was at a state school."

So you ------ state schools but attended one. Got it.

"Everything else has been at top tier institutions."

Which one? Better yet, what was it ranked? Can't be in the top 25 based on your lack of economic value.

"and your skills are only worth $26K/year.
Still can't comprehend what I've said."

Based on what you said, you make $26K/year. Thus, that is the value of your skills/education.

#79 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:37 AM | Reply

I think I have made that clear already "Doctor" Jill.

The only thing you've made clear is your ignorance.

Great - so why do you make less than 1/8th of the salary? Hell, you could have gotten your doctorate in divinity and you would make more. Either you picked a horrible school, were a horrible student, or are a phd in an utterly useless field.

#73 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

LOL so tell me again what I do.

You seem to know, so share. Please.

#80 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:37 AM | Reply

Also,

Why would you choose to deal with --------?

???

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:37 AM | Reply

The more money you have and the more you deal with --------
#75 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

I can only imagine what it's like to be forced to engage with you every day.

You define ------- but think having money changes that.

------- isn't a monetary thing, -------.

#82 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:39 AM | Reply

My undergrad degree was at a state school.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Ex: UMiami vs FSU or UF: the state schools here would be the better ROI, without a doubt.

#83 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-04-07 12:43 AM | Reply

"LOL so tell me again what I do.
You seem to know, so share. Please.
#80 | POSTED BY JPW"

You struggle in life making $26K/year - that is what you do. I don't care if it is flipping burgers or splitting atoms, the net result of your education and working career thus far is that you are worth $26k/year - or about $12.50/hour. I also suspect you continually disappoint your parents with your lack of a career or significant other. In that, you have a lot in common with Snoofy.

#84 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:47 AM | Reply

So you ------ state schools but attended one. Got it.

It's a great option and probably the best option for a great number of students.

I also know the kind of students that can attend such institutions. They're not always the best.

Which one? Better yet, what was it ranked? Can't be in the top 25 based on your lack of economic value.

Ranked #22 and #11 for schools.

Based on what you said, you make $26K/year. Thus, that is the value of your skills/education.

#79 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Wrong you illiterate dumbass.

#85 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:48 AM | Reply

"Ex: UMiami vs FSU or UF: the state schools here would be the better ROI, without a doubt.
#83 | POSTED BY GONOLES92"

Excluding the Ivies, the few private schools I named previously, or a full ride scholarship, the state school will always yield the better value. Why he chose to ------ them is beyond me.

#86 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:49 AM | Reply

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Nope. It's better option for the vast majority of students.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:50 AM | Reply

#84 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

LOL

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:50 AM | Reply

Why he chose to ------ them is beyond me.

#86 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

I'm ------ing you, you pretentious dumbass.

Nothing else.

#89 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:51 AM | Reply

"Ranked #22 and #11 for schools."

Riiiight. You are 38, graduated from a top 11 school in a STEM field, are in your 8th year since your received your 'doctorate' and make $26K/year. Sorry, your story does not add up. I think you are confusing a degree from Sandwich University as a phd in Food Sciences.

#90 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 12:56 AM | Reply

Or your illiterate dumbass is incorrect in your assessment.

No wonder you're a slumlord. Being stupid and vicious isn't tough.

#91 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:02 AM | Reply

"#91 | POSTED BY JPW"

As I posted many times before - you are an economic loser and refuse to take personal responsibility. So, you say I am successful because I chose an 'easy path'. In your mind, it couldn't possibly be because other people are smarter or work harder than you. Nope, it is because your dream in life was to make $26K/year, drown in student loans, and become an incel. Congrats! You achieved your goal.

#92 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:07 AM | Reply

"I also suspect you continually disappoint your parents with your lack of a career or significant other."

There's that zero sum game thinking again.
This guy can literally only feel good about himself by putting other people down.
What a crippling handicap that must be in life.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:08 AM | Reply

As I posted many times before

Posting nonsense multiple times doesn't change whether it's true or not.

I hope rcade bans your worthless ass. You're not worth the energy to keep around here.

#94 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:10 AM | Reply

"#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I am giving you and JWP a wake up call. Also, holding you up as a warning to any younger person on here that is listening to your advice - which will give them the same poor life results.

#95 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:12 AM | Reply

This guy can literally only feel good about himself by putting other people down.
What a crippling handicap that must be in life.

#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Funny thing is he has nothing to offer to support his sense of superiority.

I'm curious how much of Daddy's money he started with. I'm guessing that's the source of his insecurities and sense of inadequacy.

#96 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:15 AM | Reply

I am giving you and JWP a wake up call.

You're trying to make your worthless, mundane life sound worth while.

Try again.

#97 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:16 AM | Reply

"I'm curious how much of Daddy's money he started with. I'm guessing that's the source of his insecurities and sense of inadequacy.
#96 | POSTED BY JPW"

I started with $0 from my family. But, your response is exactly as I posted above. I have succeeded while you have failed - but you are incapable of putting any of the blame on yourself. So, in your warped view - I must have succeeded because I inherited money or some other fluke reason. No. I succeeded because I am smart, worked hard, and sacrificed to amass money early in life. Again, you have a completely unearned inflated sense of self.

#98 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:19 AM | Reply

I succeeded because I am smart,

LOL

You're a ------- idiot.

worked hard,

Well golly gee, good for you.

You're so alone in that unique life experience.

STFU idiot.

and sacrificed to amass money early in life.

I sacrificed money for my career path and the idealistic notions that go along with it.

Again, you have a completely unearned inflated sense of self.

#98 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

I'm better than you. I know it. You know it.

You're a POS who's only concern and metric is money because you're ignorant, unimaginative and, in the big picture, utterly worthless.

#99 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:24 AM | Reply

"I am giving you and JWP a wake up call."

No, that's not what you are doing.

"Also, holding you up as a warning to any younger person on here that is listening to your advice - which will give them the same poor life results."

Huh? The only advice I've given in this thread is that it's better to invest your excess income in something that will yield greater than 2%, than using it to pay off a loan at 2%.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:25 AM | Reply

"The only advice I've given in this thread
#100 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

It is not about this thread. It is any advice you have ever given related to economic policy. You and JPW have disqualified yourselves from that discussion unless it is about what not to do.

#101 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:27 AM | Reply

Only an economic loser would think like that, snoofy.

He knows. He's a slum lord.

#102 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:27 AM | Reply

You and JPW have disqualified yourselves from that discussion unless it is about what not to do.

#101 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Tell me about Ashley Biden's journal again, moron. LOL

#103 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:29 AM | Reply

"I'm better than you. I know it. You know it.
#99 | POSTED BY JPW"

Riiight. That is why you are red in the face and tearing out your few remaining strands of hair. You are just angry I am telling you the same thing your parents told you for the last 20 years.

#104 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:29 AM | Reply

No anger.

Just having some fun pointing and laughing at the worthless idiot Dunning-Krugering himself to bed.

#105 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:30 AM | Reply

"It is any advice you have ever given related to economic policy."

What are you even talking about?

It's really not healthy for you to get this emotionally invested in trying to get other people to think you're better than them. Also, it's not going to work.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:31 AM | Reply

"I succeeded because I am smart"

It doesn't seem like you succeeded at all.
Tou're sitting here having a conversation with two people you think are giant losers.
What kind of success is that?

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:34 AM | Reply

It only goes to show what a "winner" he is!

#108 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:35 AM | Reply

"you're sitting here having a conversation with two people you think are giant losers.
#107 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Yes. I consider it social work.

#109 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:41 AM | Reply

"#107 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

And still waiting on that age - is it 50+?

#110 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:42 AM | Reply

What do you mean?

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:42 AM | Reply

"Social work is a practice-based profession that promotes social change, development, cohesion and the empowerment of people and communities."

What are you doing to empower anyone in this thread?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:44 AM | Reply

"What do you mean?
#111 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Simple question - how old are you?

"What are you doing to empower anyone in this thread?
#112 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Giving you a wake up call so you can start getting your life in order.

#113 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:48 AM | Reply

"Giving you a wake up call so you can start getting your life in order."

Except you haven't done that at all.
All you've done is said that it's not in order.

Where is the empowerment?
Also, you have zero credentials as a social worker. It seems like you don't even know what social work is.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:51 AM | Reply

"Simple question - how old are you?"

You seem like the kind of dog owner who when the dog doesn't do what you ask, you just keep asking it over and over again.

Coincidentally, this also speaks to your lack of knowledge, skills, and abilities as a social worker.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:52 AM | Reply

"Also, you have zero credentials as a social worker.
#114 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

By this, it truly has not sunken in to you - credentials don't matter. That is why you don't make any money despite your credentials.

So again - what is your age?

#116 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 01:53 AM | Reply

"So again - what is your age?"

See what I mean?
You seem like the kind of dog owner who when the dog doesn't do what you ask, you just keep asking it over and over again.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:57 AM | Reply

"By this, it truly has not sunken in to you - credentials don't matter."

Definitely something a person with no credentials would say!

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:58 AM | Reply

What was it you said earlier?

"You are a like a 15 year old kid thinking your parents and grandparents are stupid."

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 01:59 AM | Reply

^bingo

#120 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:59 AM | Reply

Thread definitely got funnier.

Awesome. "I'm better than you" and my favorite..."I hope rcade bans you"

LOL.

I don't have a problem with an individual's choices. I don't think anybody is a loser. We have those here who ride a political high horse of sorts here who constantly look down their nose at me despite the common ground I have with them.

But it's funny when they take a ribbing from those whothey hold in such low regard already.

#121 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 08:25 AM | Reply

Awesome. "I'm better than you" and my favorite..."I hope rcade bans you"

The ban hopes are centered around the Hunter Biden thread.

The righty exodus cleaned up this place considerably.

We don't need some idiot posting righty conspiracy theory trash as fact whenever he can, even when it's pointed out to be a fake pile of crap.

BTW even you're better than him. Anybody who's not a dishonest POS is better than him.

#122 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 08:38 AM | Reply

Enlightening. The interesting part was studying JPW's extensive vocabulary. The "Doctor" called FV an "idiot" 9 times, "illiterate" 3 times, "worthless" twice, "dumbass", "ignorant", "stupid", "awkward" and "moron once". He flexed his prowess with more complex insults like "slumlord", "mundane" and "unimaginative". Sixteen times the Doctor referred to FV as "__________" so we must imagine how cleverly descriptive those names must have been. He wins the award for "numbnuts". I hadn't heard that one since 7th grade, but apparently he learned that while studying for his PhD.

#123 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-04-07 08:52 AM | Reply

#123 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Do you have a point other than trying to be a pretentious ----?

#124 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 08:56 AM | Reply

-BTW even you're better than him.

you're getting funnier by the day.

#125 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 08:57 AM | Reply

-So again - what is your age?

That clown will never reveal anything....it's way too humiliating and he'd had to leave over it.

#126 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 08:59 AM | Reply

Doctor, the first time you call a woman a "----" without your shroud of anonymity your career in academia will be over. Time to start studying for your CDL.

#127 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-04-07 09:07 AM | Reply

"That clown will never reveal anything.."

Internet debate/troll 101:
Do not answer a question, instead deflect with a question starting with, so..

#128 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-04-07 09:20 AM | Reply

Anyone stupid enough to "lend" 100k to a teenager fresh out of high school deserves to lose their money. You don't indenture a young person's future so you can "spend your kid's inheritance" today.

#129 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2021-04-07 09:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Time to start studying for your CDL.

he has enough people to look down his nose at (while call you pretentious at the same time).

Let's not introduce more groups of folks for him to insult.

#130 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 09:32 AM | Reply

#125

Why the low opinion of yourself?

#131 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 09:38 AM | Reply

131

Because I'm not a doctor, nor a scientist. I was a business major who obtained an MBA. You expressed your opinion of those people upthread.

You're here to remind me and everyone else you're superior.

Read your posts on this thread.

#132 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 09:49 AM | Reply

he has enough people to look down his nose at

Awwww you have a new whine to latch on to.

Let me guess, business degree with an MBA?

#133 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 09:49 AM | Reply

I guess so.

Do you deny that that's a common path? The bulk of people I knew took that route, almost as a default because they were "supposed" to be there but didn't know what to do.

Also, relax Eb. My intentions began and ended at taking him down a few dozen notches. Nothing more, nothing less.

#134 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 09:51 AM | Reply

"My intentions began and ended at taking him down a few dozen notches. Nothing more, nothing less.
#134 | POSTED BY JPW "

And the results were the same as your intentions of becoming a functioning adult - utter failure...38 years old, $26k/year, no savings, no significant other, and disappointed parents.

As I posted above, you have to convince your warped mind that business is an easy route to ease your butthurt over being such an economic loser. Given your age and lack of success, I think you should take the advice on the CDL. I assume you have extensive experience in eating Slim Jims and farting so you are already halfway there. And I am certain your parents will even pop for it so you don't need yet another soul-crushing student loan - they would love to have you do long haul so you are finally out of the house.

#135 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:59 AM | Reply

#135 the delusions are growing.

#136 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:03 AM | Reply

I think you should take the advice on the CDL. I assume you have extensive experience in eating Slim Jims and farting so you are already halfway there.

Ebs, you wanna weigh in here?

#137 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:05 AM | Reply

BTW I'm starting to agree with toy that this is getting funny.

Now that I'm rested and more relaxed --------------- does make me chuckle.

#138 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:06 AM | Reply

Doctor, the first time you call a woman a "----" without your shroud of anonymity your career in academia will be over. Time to start studying for your CDL.

#127 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

LOL sure.

Honestly the thought that you are a woman IRL never crossed my mind because there aren't many women posters here.

But, you definitely need thicker skin if you're gonna stay around here.

#139 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:07 AM | Reply

-My intentions began and ended at taking him down a few dozen notches.

I won't speak for FV but he's clearly taking shots at you for a reason.

And of course it's funny......but you've struggled seeing it that way.

Wanna know why?

#140 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 10:21 AM | Reply

"idiot" 9 times, "illiterate" 3 times, "worthless" twice, "dumbass", "ignorant", "stupid", "awkward" and "moron once". He flexed his prowess with more complex insults like "slumlord", "mundane" and "unimaginative". Sixteen times the Doctor referred to FV as "__________" so we must imagine how cleverly descriptive those names must have been. He wins the award for "numbnuts".

Yeah....I wouldn't be telling anybody to "relax".

Take your own advice.

#141 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 10:22 AM | Reply

Time to start studying for your CDL.

#127 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

It sounds like the Dr. needs to prescribe some ointment for the lot lizard twunt's----------.

#142 | Posted by Reinheitsgebot at 2021-04-07 10:27 AM | Reply

"It sounds like the Dr. needs to prescribe some ointment for the lot lizard twunt's----------.
#142 | POSTED BY REINHEITSGEBOT"

Thank God we have a doctor in the house. JPW, can you write me a medical prescription? Oh, that's right, you aren't a real doctor. Maybe Dr. Jill Biden can help me out.

#143 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 10:38 AM | Reply

I don't have a problem with an individual's choices. I don't think anybody is a loser. We have those here who ride a political high horse of sorts here who constantly look down their nose at me despite the common ground I have with them.
#121 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You're right.

The thread did get funnier.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 10:43 AM | Reply

And of course it's funny......but you've struggled seeing it that way.

Wanna know why?

#140 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Go ahead and get it off your chest.

Then read #138.

As for relaxing this falls under the same category as every other instance where I've been a blatant dick to somebody-proud ignorance and dishonesty is as low as one gets in my book. That's the only thing I actually look down on.

Hope that helps.

#145 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:48 AM | Reply

#143 He's more of a Dr than you are, and familiar with pharmacology, so go sit on a carrot.

#146 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 10:49 AM | Reply

Thank God we have a doctor in the house. JPW, can you write me a medical prescription? Oh, that's right, you aren't a real doctor. Maybe Dr. Jill Biden can help me out.

#143 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

More proud ignorance.

I guess being a slum lord makes you an expert on everything.

#147 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:55 AM | Reply

-That's the only thing I actually look down on.

No, it's not.

Maybe you need more rest and relaxation.

Hint....that's not the problem.

#148 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 10:56 AM | Reply

I suppose those adjectives and nouns are better than -------------, -----------, ass-reaming, dick sucking, ------------, half-sister banging, ----------, -------------, whore-frequenting, dirty ----.

#149 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 10:57 AM | Reply

BTW, I don't eat slim jims.

I have MDs all around me in my neighborhood.

In virtually every direction from my home.

The are impressed I can live with them....never having taken biochemistry and all.

#150 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 10:58 AM | Reply

:>)

#151 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 10:59 AM | Reply

149

I don't want to insult a "scientist" but aren't those adverbs?

#152 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 10:59 AM | Reply

I graduated in 1993. Owed around $15K and that included my MBA.

took 4 years and it was gone. Considering the other options for me coming out of high school, I took the right path.

IOW, it was worth it.

And this public servant who got her student loan discharged....we'll see where this goes but I can't imagine the govt allowing these loans to be discharged or forgiven. the banks won't touch these loans otherwise. The govt wants to continue to lean on private banks for these loans which is why they don't allow them to be discharged in a bankruptcy.

#153 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 11:11 AM | Reply

Good point, Eberly. Adverbs generally that modify verbs or clauses. Adjectives are generally auxiliary words that modify nouns.

#154 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 11:12 AM | Reply

No, it's not.

Maybe you need more rest and relaxation.

Hint....that's not the problem.
#148 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Since you're seem to know the inner workings of my mind better than me please, don't hold back. Stop alluding to something and just say it.

#155 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 11:14 AM | Reply

When I "took", as the British like to say, my MS in Chemistry, I had a minor in English/Technical Writing, so there is no excuse for my formatting errors.

#156 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 11:15 AM | Reply

JPW, you find no humor in any of this....well, nothing really.

Reason? You take yourself too seriously.

I probably struggle with that a little bit in my real life.

I'm surrounded by pride and arrogance. It's hard to deflect it completely.

#157 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 11:20 AM | Reply

On topic, one thing tbat saved me from enormous debt was that the last year of undergraduate training and during the study for the Masters program, you were paid a small stipend to do research for a professor, and your credits were compensated by the university. Granted, you ate beans on toast most of the time, but it kept me to a bare minimum of $5500 in Stafford loans.

During undergraduate courses in independent research, the stipend was $300/month tax free. I was still able to afford a 1/4 bag each week. I lived with three girls in a semi-fancy trailer with the master bedroom equipped en suite with a gigantic spring bath, that we used to take turns bathing in when the girl who occupied the room was gone for the weekend.

#158 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 11:22 AM | Reply

One of the girls put black eyeliner and brushed my red lashes with black mascara before an REM concert at the Cynthia Woods-Mitchell Woodlands Pavillion one evening. Another one pierced my right earlobe with a diamond stud. I went with one of my friends common-law wives who worked for Ticketron and had 3rd row seats. Her husband didn't want to go, so she called me up and I said, "Hell Yes." It was loud. My ears rung for 12 hours. That was in about October 1995. Grabbed a bunch of subversive political material on the way out.

#159 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 11:29 AM | Reply

Correction, left eaerlobe.

#160 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 11:34 AM | Reply

The are impressed I can live with them....never having taken biochemistry and all.
#150 | POSTED BYEBERLY

MDs are trained to be non-judgmental.

You have taken the opposite path in life.

#161 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 11:34 AM | Reply

I can't imagine the govt allowing these loans to be discharged or forgiven. the banks won't touch these loans otherwise.
#153 | POSTED BYEBERLY

While it doesn't explicitly say hers was in the article, Federal student loans were once Federally guaranteed.

That changed in 2010.

Somehow I doubt a person in their 20s or 30s could win such relief.
#1 | POSTED BYJPW

See above.

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:03 PM | Reply

JPW, you find no humor in any of this....well, nothing really.
Reason? You take yourself too seriously.
I probably struggle with that a little bit in my real life.
I'm surrounded by pride and arrogance. It's hard to deflect it completely.

#157 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That's funny. Apparently I'm the opposite.

I asked my better half what she thought of me being described as humorless and taking myself too seriously.

She laughed and left it at that.

If there was supposed to be humor in this thread I fully admit I missed it.

#163 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:27 PM | Reply

-I asked my better half what she thought of me being described as humorless and taking myself too seriously.

Does she post here?

#164 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 12:29 PM | Reply

She only posts on the White Power Discord channel.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:35 PM | Reply

"I'm surrounded by pride and arrogance."

You should move.

#166 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 12:36 PM | Reply

Does she post here?

#164 | POSTED BY EBERLY

LOL of course not.

So my persona here is the "real me" I'm guessing?

Or could it be that what I've stated numerous times about my treatment of others mirroring their own demeanor is, again, the reason I treat --------------- in such a way?

#167 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 12:40 PM | Reply

And in case you still think I "look down on" business majors and MBAs here are some links to the sorts of numbers that guide my thinking:

nces.ed.gov

Of the 1,956,000 bachelor's degrees conferred in 2016"17, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of business (381,000)...biological and biomedical sciences (117,000),

Business degrees were the most frequently awarded (~20% of total) and are more than 3X more than life science degrees (~6% of total). At least at the university I did my undergraduate work at a specialty like biochemistry is even less. There were 8-10 biochem nerds in my class amongst the 250-300 general bio grads.

www.gmac.com

Murray, associate director of research at the Graduate Management Admission Council, took on these questions and answered them: As of 2008, there were more than 250,000 students enrolled in MBA programs and more than 100,000 MBA degrees awarded annually. These MBAs represent at least 66 percent of all graduate business degrees conferred.

Old data, so numbers may be different now. Likely higher as the MBA is a very common post-grad advanced degree.

poetsandquants.com

www.nsf.gov

U.S. institutions awarded 54,664 research doctorate degrees in 2017...The largest share of doctorates awarded in 2017 was in life sciences (23 percent)

That shakes out to about ~12,600 advanced degrees in the biological field as of 2017.

Calling a business degree/MBA pathway "normal" isn't an insult. It's a matter of fact statement of reality.

I know many people who have an MBA and do much better than me financially.

But I knew that going into my field. You don't become a scientist to get rich.

#168 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:05 PM | Reply

-So my persona here is the "real me" I'm guessing?

I hope not.

And if your wife saw what you posted just on this thread, she'd likely wash your mouth out with soap.

She'd know why you asked her that question and accuse you of being a total -----.

She'd accuse others as well, maybe even me. But you for sure.

#169 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 01:19 PM | Reply

168

So, you do look down on them, but you have a good excuse?

Of course there are more business majors than science majors. Look out your window. Jobs everywhere that a business major is a more appropriate fit for than a science degree.

I don't think anybody has claimed a business degree is harder than a science degree. That's ludicrous. And no, "normal" isn't an insult.

#170 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 01:25 PM | Reply

The exploitation of several generations of young people by banks and loan companies under the epic lie that a college education always 'pays for itself' not only needs to end, but the ridiculous and unfair debt burdens put on hundreds of thousands of people from when they were young and vulnerable should be forgiven.

#171 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-04-07 01:29 PM | Reply

171

how? The banks eat it? the universities eat it? Both?

or does the govt pay them off for these poor poor poor souls?

#172 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 01:31 PM | Reply

And if your wife saw what you posted just on this thread, she'd likely wash your mouth out with soap.
She'd know why you asked her that question and accuse you of being a total -----.
She'd accuse others as well, maybe even me. But you for sure.

#169 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You should avoid speaking for somebody you don't know.

She would definitely say "you're such a dick." Then "but I knew what I married."

She would most certainly not wash my mouth out with soap but would instead ask why I bothered engaging --------------- as he's clearly not worth anybody's time. An assessment I would have trouble disagreeing with.

She would laugh at you for thinking this place is in any way close to a complete picture of the people posting and would likely think you're being absurd for thinking I'm the problem over ---------------.

Then again, like me she doesn't equate money with success so she think he was a giant tool bag as well.

#173 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:32 PM | Reply

So, you do look down on them, but you have a good excuse?

Calling something that's common common or normal isn't looking down on it.

You're hell bent on being a victim, aren't you?

#174 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 01:33 PM | Reply

#172: That's a fair question Eberly. In my opinion, since the government turned a blind eye while this exploitation is going on, yes the government (meaning we the taxpayers) should bear responsibility for many of those loans. Again, that is just my own opinion and I certainly realize many people on both sides of the political spectrum probably disagree.

#175 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-04-07 01:39 PM | Reply

The exploitation of several generations of young people by banks and loan companies under the epic lie that a college education always 'pays for itself' not only needs to end, but the ridiculous and unfair debt burdens put on hundreds of thousands of people from when they were young and vulnerable should be forgiven.
#171 | POSTED BY MODER8

I was born in the 70's. My father's income level was sort of ... think of Homer Simpson?
For me and so many of my peers, our parents were hell-bent that we go to college, because that was the great middle class ticket to a better life.

It's debatable whether it was/is living up to its billing, but I remember how strongly my parents generation felt that they would do whatever they could and take out the necessary loans if needed to make college a reality.

I got through it before the tuition went completely through the roof. I'm glad I went. But I had about the price of a modest new car that I was making payments on for ten years after that. So a ten-year degree in understanding debt :)

#176 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-04-07 01:53 PM | Reply

175

I think those that disagree the most are those that paid off their loans and made the necessary sacrifices to do so....and now as a taxpayer, be expected to bail out the "victims"?

Look....there are bad buys everywhere. Real Estate, cars, life insurance, annuities, etc....There is no elimination of them.

It's not going to happen. It's political suicide to touch this issue.

#177 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 02:00 PM | Reply

#176 Well said.
Here's an example of two families I know with similar family income:

The Jones's lived modestly, took no vacations, drove used cars, lived modestly so their kids could graduate from a state school without debt
The Smith's spent their disposable income on vacations, new cars, boats. Kid took out big loans to go to Duke

Their choice. You can debate which kid is going to turn out better rounded and more successful, but all is fair.

UNTIL the Govt decides to forgive college debt. The government has just given the Smiths new cars, a boat, vacations and a top education for their kid and told the Jones's they have to pay for it with what they have left over.

#178 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-04-07 02:40 PM | Reply

178

that's the perfect opposition to this idea.

I know partisans who would leave their party over it. All partisans.

#179 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 02:43 PM | Reply

I'm not a big fan of student loan forgiveness. There is at least one alternative way to address the problem without blanket forgiveness.

I understand the reason for it, I just don't think it's the best way to go about addressing the problem.

That being said, the "what about those who paid their loans off" whine is the worst argument for it I've heard.

#180 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 02:48 PM | Reply

-"what about those who paid their loans off" whine is the worst argument for it I've heard.

Why don't you wait until you pay your loans off before you make that declaration.

BTW, that argument is why it's not going to happen.

It's the MAIN reason why it's not going to happen.

#181 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 02:54 PM | Reply

- Tuition has risen exponentially over the years.

- Colleges and universities have consistently increased the percentage of adjunct and associate professors, and thus substantially reduced costs.

Endowments have grown exponentially over the years. For larger universities it's often in the billions.

In light of those simple facts, I've yet to hear a plausible explanation from any college or university why tuition is so high.

#182 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-07 03:08 PM | Reply

#176 Well said.
Here's an example of two families I know with similar family income:
The Jones's lived modestly, took no vacations, drove used cars, lived modestly so their kids could graduate from a state school without debt
The Smith's spent their disposable income on vacations, new cars, boats. Kid took out big loans to go to Duke
Their choice. You can debate which kid is going to turn out better rounded and more successful, but all is fair.
UNTIL the Govt decides to forgive college debt. The government has just given the Smiths new cars, a boat, vacations and a top education for their kid and told the Jones's they have to pay for it with what they have left over.

#178 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Do you know how much State school costs these days? With tuition, room, board, books, etc. you are looking at $20k-$25K per year IN STATE. Plus interest anywhere from 3.5-9%. This also doesn't include any money for daily needs like clothing, gas, etc.

Your comparison is also idiotic.
1. You basically say a family should sacrifice a ton so their kid can go to the cheapest school without debt.
2. If they have more than 1 kid, sucks to be them.
3. You have to assume they are upper middle class to even save enough to send 1 kid to a state school without debt.
4. And if the family doesn't do all of this, then you basically say ---- the Kid! He's out of luck!

And forgiving student debt isn't giving the Smith's anything. It's giving their KID something who is under a mountain of debt thanks to his family.

MAYBE you live in this dream world where every kid's family pays for their college education. But in the real world, that doesn't happen. ESPECIALLY in middle class and lower middle class families.

Please for Christ's sake, watch this on Student Loans and you'll understand how we got into this ------- mess: Adam Ruins Everything www.youtube.com

#183 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-04-07 03:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

UNTIL the Govt decides to forgive college debt. The government has just given the Smiths new cars, a boat, vacations and a top education for their kid and told the Jones's they have to pay for it with what they have left over.
#178 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

The government sets the stage for exactly this, every time they allow a person to create a fictional person called a Corporation, and shields the creator from liability for things the fictitous person does.

#184 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 03:14 PM | Reply

#178 Is also a great example of why loan forgiveness should be means tested.

Help should go to people who need help.

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 03:23 PM | Reply

UNTIL the Govt decides to forgive college debt. The government has just given the Smiths new cars, a boat, vacations and a top education for their kid and told the Jones's they have to pay for it with what they have left over.
#178 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Seriously...

Apply this same logic to corporate bailouts and let me know what happens.

Or just apply it to people we send to prison.

Or Medicare.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 03:27 PM | Reply

>> Kid took out big loans to go to Duke

I know someone who got a full ride to Duke for wrestling.

So any of you 'why-are-they-rolling-around-in-tights??' people, there you go.

Anyway, i paid off my (relatively modest in light of the current situation) loans, but something has to be done on a national level.
If people with massive debt had it waived, I wouldn't be bitter.

Why is school up to the age of 18 free, then it's a fkng King's Ransom?

#187 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-04-07 03:33 PM | Reply

It's a King's Ransom because the money supply vastly increased, via government guaranteed loans, but the system to spend the money in is relatively stagnant in growth on the mid and upper tiers. Stanford and Princeton are sitting on enough endowment to open universities in every major city. If they did, they wouldn't be elite though and couldn't justify their $60,000/yr price tag. Lone Star College on the other hand is $1800 for 20 credit hours a semester and growing rapidly in campuses, but it's certainly not Ivy League glamour. It's not even close to UH glamour.

#188 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-07 03:58 PM | Reply

-Your comparison is also idiotic.

No, it's not.

it's incredibly relevant as there are thousands and thousands of Smiths and Jones everywhere.

And at the end of the day in order to right this wrong, you're going to ask the Jones to pay for the Smiths.

And that's where the train comes off the tracks.

#189 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:09 PM | Reply

I'll have 2 daughters in college next Fall.

I'm very fortunate to be able to make this happen with zero debt.

#190 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:11 PM | Reply

You've got that right, Sitzkrieg. The community college I attended was $21/hr plus fees. Thank God I got a job as stockroom assistant in the chemistry/physics department that paid for full tuition and fees, even though the wage was $3.00/hr. When I went to university, I applied for the same position and got my tuition and fees waived, as well as when I became a TA. I was paid $5/hr. But even at the state university, tuition and fees were $33/hr. I could afford a dirty shanty of a trailer for $180/month. I also worked at a chemical company in town loading tractor-trailers with 55 gallon drums and other --------. And I could afford a 1/4 ounce of weed, to boot.

I have no idea how kids are going to afford college now. I checked my alma mater's current tuition and fees schedule and its $330/hr...the same rate as Baylor University was charging in the late 1980s. My old school's campus has radically improved. It's a no-brainer where all that extra money came from.

#191 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:16 PM | Reply

most of my daughter's class are attending a community college next year.

But some have new cars though.....LOL

#192 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:21 PM | Reply

>>It's a King's Ransom because the money supply vastly increased, via government guaranteed loans,

I see that as an argument for the federal government getting involved on price control, or loan forgiveness.
They helped create this.

#193 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-04-07 04:28 PM | Reply

-Please for Christ's sake, watch this on Student Loans and you'll understand how we got into this ------- mess: Adam Ruins Everything www.youtube.com

That video also explains how the same people are just as reckless with credit cards as with student loans.

#194 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:28 PM | Reply

I'm going to do everything within my power to send my kids through college, not like mine did. Mine didn't do anything except have a home to come to once a month to wash all of my dirty laundry and raid the refrigerator for meat. And free toilet paper.

My dad was an invalid after having a massive stroke and my mother worked evenings and night shifts as a dispatcher for a neighboring county. So, as you could imagine, her income wasn't great.

I got ~130 per weekend as a USAR reservist, and it paid for my car payment.

Unfortunately, the USAR unit at Huntsville was an MP Battalion and had no use for a 52D power generation and equipment repairer, so I went into the Individual IRR. The only MOS I could've used was as an infantrymen. After 4 years of weekend drilling I'd honestly had enough of Army life.

#195 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:29 PM | Reply

"Thank God I got a job as stockroom assistant in the chemistry/physics department that paid for full tuition and fees, even though the wage was $3.00/hr. When I went to university, I applied for the same position and got my tuition and fees waived, as well as when I became a TA. I was paid $5/hr. But even at the state university, tuition and fees were $33/hr. I could afford a dirty shanty of a trailer for $180/month. I also worked at a chemical company in town loading tractor-trailers with 55 gallon drums and other --------. And I could afford a 1/4 ounce of weed, to boot."

You make it sound like you won the lottery with that story.

What you described is what any college kid can do.

#196 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:30 PM | Reply

Why is school up to the age of 18 free, then it's a fkng King's Ransom?
#187 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS

Capitalism.

#197 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 04:31 PM | Reply

I let my hair grow out and one of the dudes in my dorm gave me a fresh fade. It's where you cut off most of the hair around your ears and leave a big, floppy top on which you could part either way.

#198 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:31 PM | Reply

This thread has been funny especially reading it as a college dropout.

BTW Snoofy I'm paying it cause I can. It's only 100 bucks a month for 7 more months so why not get it done in a bunch of small bites. Even if I continued the stupid high returns I've averaged over the past 14 months I would come out 120 bucks ahead. Getting done with it is worth more than the extra 120, which is theoretical based on an unreasonably high rate of return to expect to continue over the next 7 months.

F_V you are WAY too obsessed with how much money people make. Lots of careers have low economic value and high social value yet we as a society need those careers more than we need many high paying careers.

#199 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 04:34 PM | Reply

#196 Believe me, Eberly, I did feel as if I'd won the lottery. I had no other way to pay for college and opportunities seemed to drop in my lap continuously. You'd be surprised how much -------- professionals have to dole out so they don't have to do it. All they require is trust. So, you must behave trustworthy, show up to the interview in a suit, and they'll hand you the keys to the Kingdom.

#200 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:36 PM | Reply

One of my best toking friends, an Iranian dude sent over during the Iran-Iraq war, didn't have to work because his father was a physician back home in Iran. He told me everything there was to know about the middle east without having to ask. His dad was rich enough to send him tutition/fees room and board money every month. He was an American citizen by then and used to get into melancholy moods when he realized he could never go home again to Iran. So, there is always someone battling internal demons worse than yours (mine) are.

#201 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:40 PM | Reply

Why don't you wait until you pay your loans off before you make that declaration.
BTW, that argument is why it's not going to happen.
It's the MAIN reason why it's not going to happen.

#181 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I still won't care.

I'm not such a bitter, woe is me SOB that I'll sit down and cry because I could have not paid my loans and had them forgiven.

I don't base my self-worth or self-vision on what's going on with other people.

#202 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 04:42 PM | Reply

And at the end of the day in order to right this wrong, you're going to ask the Jones to pay for the Smiths.

How do you figure?

It's already government money they mostly just printed.

The Jone's are on the hood for their piece of the national debt pie they'll never be called on to pay anyways.

Most of this line of arguing is just sour grapes over the perception that you're not getting something somebody else is getting.

#203 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 04:45 PM | Reply

Actually, he was the one who put the seed in my mind concerning retirement homes. I would drive by one on the way to the middle of town and he always became incredulous after passing it and would say, "Why you keep your old people stacked in these places? It's disgraceful. I though America was a Christian place. In Iran, we take in our old people and men marry a second or third wife simply because their husbands have died." "Not to have threesomes with like your sick country."

That, and after watching the Exorcist for about the 10th time, I'd made my mind up I'd take care of my mother when the time came.

In the Exorcist, there's a line spewed out by the demon Pazuzu though Reagan: You left your mother home to die!!

Still to this day I don't know why that line resonated with me so much, but it did. My mom got to die peacefully in her sleep at my home without going to a nursing home.

#204 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 04:47 PM | Reply

-Most of this line of arguing is just sour grapes over the perception that you're not getting something somebody else is getting.

Yes, it is. That's exactly what it is.

Sour grapes...with political retribution.

It'll become a wedge issue if it goes anywhere.

which is why it's not going anywhere.

#205 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:47 PM | Reply

#196

Not anymore my son works on campus and being generous it covers 25% of tuition room and board. There isn't any wage on top of that.

#206 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 04:52 PM | Reply

If this country wanted student loans forgiven, it would have put Bernie Sanders in the White House.

We didn't do that.

#207 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 04:59 PM | Reply

It'll become a wedge issue if it goes anywhere.

Probably.

If there is any forgiveness it's not going to be the $50K Schumer et al are pushing for.

Last I heard Biden was considering as high as $10K.

Either way I don't care. Both of those values easily mops up what I have left.

#208 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 05:00 PM | Reply

You make it sound like you won the lottery with that story.
What you described is what any college kid can do.
#196 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2021-04-07 04:30 PM

Perhaps you're right; however, most didn't because their parents were paying their way and had no need to offer up their time as servants to the University or Capitalists. I ended up agreeing with them...college is for studying, not for toil. Unless one's degree plan was filled with so many easy three-hour lectures that outside employment was seen as a bonus.

#209 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 05:20 PM | Reply

You make it sound like you won the lottery with that story.

What you described is what any college kid can do.

#196 | Posted by eberly

No, they can't. You can no longer work two or three jobs and pay for school. Minimum wage was $3 when MADSCIENTIST went to college. It's $7.25 an hour now, and Republicans ----- about raising it.

#210 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-04-07 05:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No, they can't. You can no longer work two or three jobs and pay for school.

You couldn't even when I was in undergrad in the early 2000's.

I worked two summer jobs and part time in the campus bookstore all academic year.

I had a scholarship that covered tuition but still had to pay room and board, fees, buy books ect.

Even with those three jobs over the entire year I never had enough to cover all my expenses and had to take loans to cover the gap.

And no, assistance from my parents wasn't available. My sister that is 1.5 years older than me soaked up all that resource.

#211 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 05:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#210 That was exactly my point. Unfortunately I have a bad habit of dancing around the point with references and anecdotes and forget to end the post with its most important point.

It's impossible for someone to work and go to college now and escape the adventure loan-free. I felt awful for garnering $5500. That's peanuts compared to what young adults are facing now.

The University system found out that they could keep raising tuition rates and the federal government would foot the bill through Stafford loans. So, now my alma mater looks like a fortress.

#212 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 05:29 PM | Reply

"BTW Snoofy I'm paying it cause I can. It's only 100 bucks a month for 7 more months so why not get it done in a bunch of small bites."

Okay.

I figured you owed an order of magnitude more than $700.

#213 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 05:34 PM | Reply

If minimum wage kept pace with tuition, minimum wage would be something like $25/hr.

As it stands to get $25/hr as a starting wage... you need a college degree.

#214 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 05:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

As another example, my mother won a special country-wide scholarship, which I forget its name, and decided to enter the University of Texas at Austin as a physics major. She kept the telegram informing her of the scholarship in a photo album with pride. She spent two years there and dropped out and went to California where the money was. She was also having problems with her boyfriend and was spooked by the Charles Whitman mass-murder scene. She eventually got her BA in Psychology from the University of Mary Hardin Baylor at Belton, TX 30 years later.

She made $2.13/hour working for the Austin Statesman newspaper as a proofreader and had enough money for room, board, outside dining, gas, etc. and leftover spending money on various sundries. She never had to go home to her parents for money. This was around 1964-66.

She didn't understand why my sister and I were having so much trouble affording college.

#215 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 05:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That video also explains how the same people are just as reckless with credit cards as with student loans.
#194 | POSTED BY EBERLY

If you hand a gun to a reckless person, do you bear any responsibility for what happens next?

Why should it be different when you hand them a loan or a credit card?

Or maybe you think it's okay to give guns and credit to reckless people. And let society bear the burden. That would be in line with the GOP agenda.

#216 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 05:44 PM | Reply

Just remembered it, it was from the Minnie-Stevens Piper Foundation. It paid for room, board, tuition, books, and incidentals. They also gave her a motorcycle.

#217 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 05:47 PM | Reply

comptroller.texas.gov

#218 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 05:51 PM | Reply

Or rather, a studio condo in San Diego.
#14 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

LOL The house my fiance and I are renting is on a property in North Park. The owner has decided to sell (smart choice IMO), but new owner wants all tenants vacated. So we've found a smaller place that costs more in the same neighborhood. The current property was sold $1.2 million cash buyer. When viewing the property, off market for that matter, the relator had 7 people lined up out front ready to check the place out. Each and every one of them were cash buyers.

Even if we had the 20% down payment, buying a house in San Diego is damn difficult simply because of the cash buyers investing in rental/AirB&B properties. The fnkcers buying up property while living out of state are killing the San Diego housing market.

I doubt we'll ever been home owners in San Diego, at this rate.

Funny note, though, the relator was very candid with me when he said that he's selling his current property to rent. He was embarrassed being a relator who rents, but he said according to the market, now is the time to sell, not buy. And the market will be correcting itself sometime at the end of the year or next year. So he's sitting on the profits to invest later on. I have some friends, who are not wealthy, looking to buy a house. I've told them about my relator and they really got cold feet. But each time they put in an offer over the span of 4 or 5 months, every single time they would either be outbid by 5% - 10% over asking or it was a straight cash buyer. They've committed to renting for the rest of the year, in the least.

It's brutal out here. Hoping lifting the eviction moratorium in July might help the renters market. $2,400 a month for 2 bedroom 625 sq. feet is crazy expensive, but North Park sure is comfy place to be!

#219 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 05:57 PM | Reply

She didn't understand why my sister and I were having so much trouble affording college.

That will be one of the biggest political problems with loan forgiveness besides the jealousy factor Eb brought up. Boomers just have no clue what kids are dealing with in terms of cost of college, and well everything really. If a recent grad tells a boomer they have 50k in loans the boomer assumes that they bought a car and were living in a fancy apartment off campus for that kind of money. Not that they were working full time walking or taking the bus and eating ramen for every meal so they ONLY had that much debt.

I figured you owed an order of magnitude more than $700.

No that was for my second (really third) stint and it was at CC. Of course if you feel better I'm a way bigger economic loser that you are in money_istheonly_value's book. I'm well into middle age and still paying off loans for a degree that I didn't even finish and am certainly not using.

#220 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 05:59 PM | Reply

Tao, that was when I tried to explain geometric expansion to my mother. $2.13/hr in 1965 should be $17/hr in the mid 1980s and early 1990s. And well over $20/hr now.

#221 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:03 PM | Reply

I was paid a perfunctory salary of $1000/month by the sole proprietor of the first company I worked for after just graduating college. I was the Vice President's personal bitch. The next month it jumped to $30,000/year. This was back in 1994. One of the criteria was you had to smoke dope. He used it as an albatross over each employees' head so they wouldn't turn him in for being a potheaded, drunken, pill-popping lecher. After the thousand dollar amount was agreed upon, he took me privately to his office and offered me a $2000 cash loan until I got on my feet. He was a very mobster-esqe businessman and knew how to tap people based on their weaknesses. A cou;le years later, after paying him $100/month for the loan he cancelled the loan and tore up the piece of paper I'd signed acknowledging the loan.

As a warning to parents: if you don't help your kids in their early 20s, there are plenty of nefarious entities out there that will make use of your starving children. Some of them make extra cash by peddling their -----, or stripping, or being hired by a company that is constantly being sued, or drug dealing.

#222 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:12 PM | Reply

When you posted that you still have undergrad and grad school debt as a middle age guy. Sorry, that makes you an economic loser.
#36 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Thank the heavens your opinion does not dictate reality.

#223 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 06:14 PM | Reply

As an example, one of the managers I worked for at a Dairy Queen told me she made extra cash by giving -------- for $50. I was too young to take advantage of the opportunity, and felt sorry for her instead of aroused.

#224 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:15 PM | Reply

'It's brutal out here."

Here is what I really don't get.

The median household income in San Diego is right around $78,000.

That gets you *nowhere near* being able to afford the median house, which sells for about $730,000.

It barely gets you the studio condo.

And good luck saving 20% down, aka one year's gross salary!

#225 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 06:16 PM | Reply

Some of them make extra cash by peddling their -----, or stripping, or being hired by a company that is constantly being sued, or drug dealing.
#222 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST

Human traffickers target the youth just out of high school. College debt makes them vulnerable targets. Magazine sales has been identified as a form of labor trafficking. I knew quite a few college kids that jumped on that band wagon because they couldn't find part-time work during the school year, winter break, or spring break. Don't even get me started on the porn industry. Hell, movies have made it a running gag with female characters having to turn to prostitution to pay for the tuition/loans.

Clearly unsustainable system; clearly a harmful system.

#226 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 06:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Here is what I really don't get.

#225 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-04-07 06:16 PM | FLAG:

Just like higher education, housing is supply constrained. Your city knows this and is making plans to increase housing supply as best it can.

#227 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-07 06:25 PM | Reply

Add healthcare to that. We're hell bent on expanding demand but are terrible as expanding the supply.

#228 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-07 06:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Just like higher education, housing is supply constrained."

The supply isn't "constrained."

There are 10x more vacant housing units than homeless people in San Diego.

Wealth inequality simply gives rise to a situation where the median home is completely out of reach to the median household.

#229 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 06:31 PM | Reply

Maybe it's different up North, or along the Eastern Seabord. From what I gleaned from my boss from Cincinnati, most of the labor stuff not only be unethical, but unlawful. He noted the good-ole-boy attitude toward developing reservoirs down here. Before the reservoir is built, a bunch of businessmen in the know would buy up all the property surrounding the reservoir when it finally topped out at its mean sea level. He said up north there would have to be bids and environmental impact studies done first. He was referring to Lake Conroe and all the swanky gated-entry homes situated on the water. Most of the land was bought up by Cynthia Woods Mitchell's father by no-bid contracts and he became a billionaire. His daughter constructed an outdoor amphitheater in the Woodlands to compensate. That's where I saw REM, Aerosmith, etc.

#230 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:31 PM | Reply

Seaboard

#231 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:32 PM | Reply

Two of the lab technicians I was responsible for bounce off me the idea of going into stripping. I told them you wouldn't want all those drunk dude pawing at you all the time, would you? The responded that it's better than working an 8-5:30 job doing mind-numbing experiments all day.

Thankfully, they got married. One to an electrician and the other to an Airline Pilot. They'd never phone in advance, but they'd drop by our apartment from time to time and keep me up to date on their lives, and take a peek at what was going on with mine.

It always reminded me of the saying by Socrates, "To the homes of the good, the good go unbidden."

#232 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:37 PM | Reply

Oh, yeah, as Sitzkrieg mentioned above, there are no more Quack Shacks on campus to get free medical attention. You have to pay for insurance to obtain medical care now.

Why our elders sanction this indentured servitude is beyond my comprehension. Not only have they mortgaged our futures with incredible government debt, but stolen and squandered our birthrights out from under us by getting rid of their homes and possessions to the medical and rest home industries. Not to mention cruise lines. My father's mother was adamant about leaving my sister and I the small savings she had insisting it didn't go toward the government or assisted living arrangements.

#233 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:42 PM | Reply

Once, around 9pm, I was well into my cups and heard a rapping at the front door. Being inebriated, it was no shock as would've been had I been sober. I looked through the peephole and there was a lanky dude standing outside. I opened up the door and he presented himself as a new Russian emigre' and would like to sing a Christmas holiday song and give me a quite nice artistic photograph of a night scene in Russia. So I said go ahead. He sang for about 3 minutes and I reached into my wallet and gave him a $20. I hung the picture up in our apartment with pride. What people force themselves to debase themselves to to make a living is heartbreaking sometimes.

#234 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 06:53 PM | Reply

"made extra cash by giving -------- for $50"

Hey, that probably hits home for some posters here......

It's painful for them because they never made 50 bucks sucking ----.

#235 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 06:54 PM | Reply

With the religion-peddlers, it was a different story. After they'd introduce themselves, I'd ask them to come in and have a spot of tea or coffee, or a screwdriver or G&T. The Mormons, refused of course, and the others would always say, "No".

They were men and women on a mission; got a serious mind.

Got the saints and apostles
Backin' up from behind.
Black eyed looks from those bible books.
He's a man with a mission
Got a serious mind.
There was a woman in the jungle
And a monkey on a tree.
The missionary man he was followin' me.
He said "Stop what you're doing."
"Get down upon your knees."
"I've a message for you that you better believe, believe, believe, believe."

--Partially taken without authorization from either the group Eurythmics, their distributor, or ASCAP.

#236 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 07:01 PM | Reply

But using elementary reverse-psychology, it was child's play to make them leave me alone in the future. Not being self-aware enough that they recoiled at someone intruding on their space by inviting them to come in. That was their job to make people uncomfortable.

Jesus certainly should've clarified evangelizing the gentiles more clearly. Not to send innocently brainwashed 20 year old girls into the night knocking on doors about the good news.

#237 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 07:04 PM | Reply

And good luck saving 20% down, aka one year's gross salary!
#225 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

My boss just pulled that off. Working for a public organization, I know exactly how much he makes. He and his wife lived in a studio for 3 years to save up the down payment on a house. They finally closed escrow a couple months ago and from what he said, it was an absolutely nauseating experience with sellers and relators putting major pressure sales tactics, knowing a cash buyer is right around the corner. He said the only reason the owner took his offer is because he was one of the first to take a look at the house and built a bit of a relationship with the owner. So the guy took pity on my boss who makes >$120,000 per year, not including his wife's salary. And they got their house.

It's simply nuts.

#238 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 07:22 PM | Reply

Just like higher education, housing is supply constrained. Your city knows this and is making plans to increase housing supply as best it can.
#227 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Unfortunately, the supply will not drown out the demand. Especially with housing market situations like that in San Francisco or Silicon Valley. The commitment to remote working has proven to many up there that they don't need to live in such a f'ed up housing market. So they bring they're multi-$100,000 salaries down to San Diego, where they can live and work remotely.

Compound that with the AirB&B debacle that the city refuses to address. For almost a decade now, affordable housing has been bought up by out of state investors, looking to either flip or turn into an AirB&B and most of these investors are offering cash, which clearly is a big incentive for sellers.

IOW, what does it matter if they build 130,000 new units when those units will more than likely be bought up by out of state investors? Am I missing something?

#239 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 07:29 PM | Reply

"The exploitation of several generations of young people by banks and loan companies under the epic lie that a college education always 'pays for itself'
#171 | POSTED BY MODER8"

First, it was not the loan companies. Second, it cannot change because the Democrat's sole economic plan is to push more and more people into college to become 'educated' despite the costs being way too high and the number of jobs requiring the skills shrinking, and for some majors, non-existent to begin with.

The reality is that the US cannot now, nor ever will be capable of having 70-80% of our workforce 4-year college "educated" - the jobs don't exist to support them and 70-80% of Americans is double or more the amount of Americans with the ability and desire to attend college. So, the only way to get there is the dumbing down of college that we see now - which is why a college degree is no longer respected.

However, good luck with the Democrats admitting that as they have chased out manufacturing, mining, and oil extraction - which is where employment with living wages could actually grow. Also, throws a wrench into the need for illegals "only doing jobs Americans won't" as that only flies when you think every American is elite college material.

#240 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 07:43 PM | Reply

"Compound that with the AirB&B debacle that the city refuses to address.
#239 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11"

Gee...cities pass rent control ordinances and people switch to AirBNBs instead...shocking to no one.

#241 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 07:45 PM | Reply

"I know someone who got a full ride to Duke for wrestling.
#187 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS"

So your friend gets $60K/year to role around with other sweaty, half-naked men. Probably could have gotten the same deal on Craiglist-San Francisco.

#242 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 07:48 PM | Reply

That old boss was so corrupt, he asked me if I knew how to make meth. I told him yes and I also knew how to make marijuana and morphine stronger by adding acetic anhydride to it and letting it dry. He never asked me to make illicit drugs for him, though. I wouldn't have anyway. The consequences of a Type I Professional Chemist was 20 years in the hole in Federal Prison.

I'd had the hospitality of the county sheriff a couple times in the holding tank earlier in my youth and had no desire to expand my knowledge on being a fully-fledged inmate. One strange observation I made was that when the female inmates were being marched to chow, they were all beautiful. I expected them to look like haggard heroin victims. So, I supposed that most of them were in for credit card fraud or passing bad checks.

#243 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 07:51 PM | Reply

And if anyone is unaware, holding tanks are 30 x 30 rooms with concrete floors, no blankets or pillows, and one roll of toilet paper that the most senior captive used as a pillow. There was a toilet/sink combo in the corner with no privacy barrier. So if you had to take a dump, you did it with 30 people trying not to stare at you. Having to ask the guy for a few sheets of TP wasn't hard. He seemed to acknowledge your predicament.

Breakfast, lunch, and dinner were simply brown paper sacks with a dry bologna sandwich, an orange, and a half-pint of reduced fat milk. I lost about 20 lbs over the 48 hour span of time before getting to plead my case too a Magistrate. I had told the deputy numerous times I wanted to consult my attorney, so when it was time to go in front of the Magistrate, I was first in line. Holding my Levi 501s up by my left hand so they wouldn't fall down. (They'd taken my belt, watch, wallet, workboots, and my drivers license. She summarily dismissed the charges against me and I was free to go. They returned everything but my drivers license. So I had to get my attorney to get it back. That was $300 for the effort.

So, like the old addage goes, "You might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

#244 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I was arrested for being drunk in public. The arresting officers didn't take a breath test to prove it, so the Magistrate had no choice but to let me go. I have to believe asking for my attorney several times also helped my case.

In case you're ever arrested, don't argue with the cop. Just get booked and ask politely for your attorney. They'll ignore you, but they know that you've got an Ace up your sleve. And when you're arraigned the Magistrate will most likely let you go if the offence isn't too antisocial. And she knows you've been trying to get a hold of your lawyer for two days. My sister is a probation officer and she told me they're supposed to let you contact your attorney as soon as possible and there's no law that says you must spen 24-48 hours in a holding tank with a bunch of drunks.

#245 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:06 PM | Reply

"there's no law that says you must spen 24-48 hours in a holding tank with a bunch of drunks.
#245 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

Them removing you from a keyboard for 48 hours seems more like a mental wellness hold.

#246 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:11 PM | Reply

I'll ignore #246 and add this all took place in Texas. I've no idea how other states deal with inmates.

#247 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:15 PM | Reply

Family Values, I, quite intelligently, took Typing for one year as a Freshman in HS. I can type about 180 words per minute. It's been a very marketable tool over the years, and I have no shame in admitting it. So, go stick hemlock parsnip up your ass and let it dissolve until your body has a strange numbing effect and your breathing becomes laboured.

#248 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:18 PM | Reply

...erased her considerable debt....and cratered her credit record for six years. FTFY

...erased her considerable debt..and exposed her to charges of fraud for declaring bankruptcy for no other reason than laziness. further FTFY

(disclosure: I had $42000 in student loan debt from masters and doctorate degrees, and paid them off earlier by...wait for it...saving, being thrifty for several years, and paying extra payments where possible.)

#249 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-04-07 08:20 PM | Reply

Gee...cities pass rent control ordinances and people switch to AirBNBs instead...shocking to no one.
#241 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Yet still harmful to the affordable housing market, as my point contended.

Why do you even bother posting?

Such a waste of time for you, it must be.

#250 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:20 PM | Reply

"Family Values, I, quite intelligently, took Typing for one year as a Freshman in HS.
#248 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

I am more concerned about the bump of coke you seemingly took an hour ago. You don't need to type out every thought that runs through your head.

#251 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:22 PM | Reply

#249 | POSTED BY E1G1

Good on you, yet shouldn't use your own anecdote to suggest that everyone else should also be capable of doing what you did.

You're simply shoulding all over yourself.

#252 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:22 PM | Reply

You don't need to type out every thought that runs through your head.
#251 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

HA!

The irony is rife.

#253 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:22 PM | Reply

#248

And that's what I appreciates about you.

#254 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 08:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#251 The only cocaine I've experimented with was once at a party with some of the ex-cons that worked in the warehouse of a manufacturing plant about 25 years ago. It was truly for experimental purposes only...so I could recognize the effects on other people in the future. After the party, the host passed around a fifth of Jack Daniels to help us deal with the side-effects of coming down from it. His common-law wife laughed and said, "Payin' tha piper's a bitch, ain't it?

#255 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:29 PM | Reply

Anyway, I'm a redhead and subject to cyclothymia like all readheads. Sometimes you retreat into your cave and sometimes you come out to play.

#256 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:30 PM | Reply

"The irony is rife.
#253 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11"

No irony. EVERYTHING I write is pure gold. MADSCIENTIST rambles like the homeless guys with mental illness wandering around in parks.

#257 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:33 PM | Reply

"I'm a redhead
#256 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

Have you researched why gingers have no souls?

#258 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:34 PM | Reply

Have you researched why gingers have no souls?

Whether or not people possess "souls" is best left to psychologists, philosophers, and theologians. I do possess what is known in psychoanalytic theory as a tremendous superego. This was told to me by a college girlfriend who had an MA in Psychology and used me as a guinea pig for all her psych tests. Thankfully the only bump was on the MMPI for paranoia, but she said that was normal for college-educated people.

#259 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:43 PM | Reply

I took an IQ test for her in front of her class, once. I'm not going to reveal the number, but it made her so wet I got laid that night.

#260 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

254

I bet it's not the only thing you appreciates about him......

#261 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 08:45 PM | Reply

#257 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Delusions of grandeur.

#262 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:47 PM | Reply

Family Values, I'd urge you to read "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus." I think you'd find it interesting. Personally, I've read it twice.

#263 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:47 PM | Reply

Alright let's take about 20% off there squirrely Eberly.

#264 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 08:53 PM | Reply

"Family Values, I'd urge you to read "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus." I think you'd find it interesting. Personally, I've read it twice.
#263 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

I have heard of the book but don't have a desire to read it. My assumption is that it is an attempt to normalize the changing Western culture and sexual roles within a family. I don't believe these changes are healthy for society and the rise in mental illness - specifically with liberal leaning young women - is a testament to their destructiveness. If you can assure me that it is not about that, I may take your recommendation and read it. I prefer to read about history - specifically ancient civilizations anthropology.

#265 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:55 PM | Reply

Anyway, I'm a redhead and subject to cyclothymia like all readheads. Sometimes you retreat into your cave and sometimes you come out to play.
#256 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST

I'm a red head and have never heard of cyclothymia. Looking it up, I don't see any indication that having red hair equates to a predisposition.

Am I missing something?

#266 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:55 PM | Reply

And FV, were I a betting man, I'd wager you're a pathetically lonely incel who hasn't been near a mons pubis in a decade or two. And that booze is your go-to substance to enhance your spirits. Amiright?

It doesn't take a lot of time to recognize other peoples' personalities by what they don't talk about, as opposed to what they do talk about.

Like ancient cave paintings of the silhouettes of hands made by spewing pigment all around the hand and then removing it. It's not a painting of the hand, but you know it is one because of what is left over afterwards.

#267 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:56 PM | Reply

#257

Does it burn that a guy who "rambles like the homeless guys with mental illness wandering around in parks" is about ten times more interesting than you?

#268 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I'm a red head.....Am I missing something?
#266 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11"

Yes, a soul.

#269 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 08:56 PM | Reply

= the rise in mental illness

In your case, you are right to be concerned.

#267 |

Insightful analysis, my good doctor.

#270 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-07 08:59 PM | Reply

#268 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR

I had a great discussion with a homeless guy outside of Petco Park last night after the Padres beat the Giants. I had an extra can of beer and I handed it to him. Being double vaxxed now for more than 2 weeks, felt the urge to be compassionate and shake the man's hand.

I can't tell you for the life of me what we were discussing, mostly nodding and agreeing and "I hear you. I'm listening." But it was definitely nice to shake a stranger's hand, give him a beer, and experience sincere appreciation from another human being.

Joe, wherever you are, I really enjoyed meeting you and look forward to seeing you again in the future. Stay warm.

#271 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 08:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#266 I started recognizing it as a kid with my drop-of-the-hat willingness to get into fist-fights with bullies. Maybe it's just me, but I've seen other redheads with fiery tempers as well. Maybe it's the Irish in me? But since both of my parents carried the recessive red-head gene it could come from my Germanic father. They were both brunettes and had brown eyes.

#272 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 08:59 PM | Reply

And, FV, something that I would know, is that when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for insults, you've got nothing. So, my advice is to simply blow away like a fart in the wind. Unless you have something more entertaining to hold us captive with. Feel free to stay and sit at the adults table. By the way, this is a formal invitation. Not a mockery.

#273 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 09:04 PM | Reply

264

That show cracks me up.

#274 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 09:04 PM | Reply

"I have heard of the book but don't have a desire to read it. My assumption is that it is an attempt to normalize the changing Western culture and sexual roles within a family."

Okay.

NOW the thread is actually pretty funny.

I read Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. It was a real eye-opener. Definitely explained some things I had seen the rough edges of but couldn't put into words. And other stuff that had just never occurred to me. I still use some of those concepts more or less daily.

Then again, lots of people don't like opening their eyes.

#275 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-07 09:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yes, a soul.
#269 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Hook, line and sinker.

Funny, as a white male, my privilege still does not protect me from such innate hatred of being an other. I'd say it's weird, but I've lived with it all my life.

I'd take a guess, were you Canadian, you would've taken part in the youthful tradition of Kick a Ginger day, that puts many children across the country in the hospital.

I'm sure you meant the remark in jest, so no harm, no foul.

Besides, I too believe I do not have a soul, but that's not because of my hair color.

#276 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 09:05 PM | Reply

"And FV, were I a betting man, I'd wager you're a pathetically lonely incel who hasn't been near a mons pubis in a decade or two. And that booze is your go-to substance to enhance your spirits. Amiright?
#267 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

Well, with betting skills like, it explains why you counted among the economic losers on this board.

#277 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:06 PM | Reply

#272

I know some Irish families. Fist fight at the drop of a hat... even if no one is wearing one. Then get drunk and laugh about it.

#278 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-07 09:06 PM | Reply

They were both brunettes and had brown eyes.
#272 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST

Similar situation for me as well. My nickname in high school was milk, in reference to "It had to have been the milk man."

#279 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 09:08 PM | Reply

"My assumption is that it is an attempt to normalize the changing Western culture and sexual roles within a family. I don't believe these changes are healthy for society and the rise in mental illness - specifically with liberal leaning young women - is a testament to their destructiveness. If you can assure me that it is not about that, I may take your recommendation and read it."

It's been years since I read it but I don't think you'd find it like that. It's more about the natural differences between men and women....differences you'd believe and accept. It's not an attempt to brain wash you or guilt you with your complete lack of sensitivity.

#280 | Posted by eberly at 2021-04-07 09:09 PM | Reply

it explains why you counted among the economic losers on this board.
#277 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES

Your life must be so inconsequential.

smh

#281 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-04-07 09:10 PM | Reply

#271

I've had a few of those over the years but no not recently. Still only 1 vax and not even two weeks from that. Also I quit going to Walmart right before this all started, nothing against Walmart but a trip there takes an hour minimum between parking and lines and walking from one end of the world to the other. I've gotten so busy that I just don't have an hour to spare. I found quite a few of my crazy homeless people either in or just outside the store.

My favorite wasn't crazy but he told the greatest stories about why he needed money. A couple times I would stop and listen just for the entertainment. He had a sack on him though usually went for at least 20 bucks. One time he stopped me and three friends and 3 of us kicked in 10 and the 4th did 1 and he was like come on man I can tell you got money. Got another 10 out of him.

#282 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 09:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"= the rise in mental illness
In your case, you are right to be concerned.
#270 | POSTED BY CORKY"

I posted this link a few days back.

www.powerlineblog.com

Young liberals - especially female liberals have a huge increase in mental illness. Does being a liberal cause mental illness or does mental illness cause people to believe in liberal ideas?? - I will leave that to the scientists.

#283 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:12 PM | Reply

"It's not an attempt to brain wash you or guilt you with your complete lack of sensitivity.
#280 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

That hurts. I am very sensitive. But liberals are like children - spare the rod, spoil the child - so I must be stern with them.

#284 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:15 PM | Reply

#274

It's a great show.

Now I guess I have to read MAFMWAFV managed to dodge that piece of "culture" all these years.

#285 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-04-07 09:16 PM | Reply

I remember when Powerline was a semi-respectable conservative publication and website. They've fallen so low. It is a genuine shame.

#286 | Posted by YAV at 2021-04-07 09:17 PM | Reply

#265 Personally, I've had little difficulty with classically defined gender specific roles. All the men I roomed with in college were expert chefs, if only because their wives/girlfriends were satisfied with eating Fruity Pebbles. And the men wanted meat and potatoes.

I do most of the cooking around here, and I don't find it effeminizing. I also empty all the trash and do the laundry. My better half does other things she's good at in return. My mom was such a quasi-feminist bitch that she wouldn't even sew up my coat for me, so I had to learn to sew and crochet by myself. I still remember her sitting on the couch watching TV and spewing, "I'm not your goddamn maidservant." My friends and I laughed one evening that we all came from post-feminist bitches who recoiled at the idea of doing something like sewing, cleaning, or cooking. So, we had to learn to "batch" for ourselves.

#287 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 09:18 PM | Reply

Figure it out.

#288 | Posted by YAV at 2021-04-07 09:19 PM | Reply

- www.powerlineblog.com

No wonder you are such a demented nut job. GIGO, as they say.

Was it the Nazi lightening bolt imagery that attracted you there?

#289 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-07 09:24 PM | Reply

FV/KBM One of the most poignant examples from Men are from Mars was that both men and women retreat into their caves (for men), or holes (for women) to recoup, regroup, and reorganize. So if a woman seems disinterested in talking with you, just chalk it up to them being in their holes. Men do the same thing by retreating into their cave (safe space) where they aren't obliged to perform and be held accountable for something.

#290 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 09:29 PM | Reply

Oh yeah, Family Values, if you really are the former poster named KBM, I'm sorry what happened to your brother. You didn't think anyone was paying attention, but I was. It was the reason I stopped picking on you at the time.

#291 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 09:32 PM | Reply

On the topic of ---- jobs, I was an E-3 (PFC) for a long time at my USAR unit because I spent a year drilling there while in High School before going to Basic Training the day after I graduated. One interesting find was that most of the hair in men's bathrooms is pubic hair. I'd have to get on my hands and knees and swipe the floor with a hand brush. I consoled myself that there was no where else to go but up. In a way, I became the most valuable soldier in the company. Every time a ---- job came up, I got to do it. Everyone else were E-4 Specialists. KP, peeling potatoes, emptying water reservoirs from a hundred diesel engines. I inadvertently made a lifelong friend of the KP Sergeant 1st Class (E-7) when I told him, exhausted, that, "Y'all work hard back here." He smiled and said nothing. I always got extra helpings during chow time after that. Like ribs or brisket.

#292 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-07 09:41 PM | Reply

"I remember when Powerline was a semi-respectable conservative publication and website. They've fallen so low. It is a genuine shame.
#286 | POSTED BY YAV"

Why are you on about Powerline? The data is from Pew, not Powerline. They just hosted the image I linked to as it was the first that popped up in Google image search. Now that we have established the source of the data, you want to still dispute it? Frankly, it should not have been difficult to deduce the data source before popping off as it is listed right at the bottom of the chart.

#293 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:49 PM | Reply

"Oh yeah, Family Values, if you really are the former poster named KBM, I'm sorry what happened to your brother.
#291 | POSTED BY MADSCIENTIST"

Nope - not KBM as I have already posted I was Jacques_Strap. I remember that name vaguely but no recollection on his/her positions.

#294 | Posted by Family_values at 2021-04-07 09:51 PM | Reply

"Apply this same logic to corporate bailouts and let me know what happens."
you are correct, we agree, imagine that.

#295 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-04-07 10:27 PM | Reply

Why are you on about Powerline? The data is from Pew, not Powerline.

The assumptions and the premise the data is used to support come from Powerline. There are many reasons why the data would not support either the premise or the conclusion and could support an entirely different conclusion. For the article, the premise clearly forms the conclusion, so I don't place value in either.

#296 | Posted by YAV at 2021-04-07 10:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#296

There you go again being all rational and stuff.

#297 | Posted by Corky at 2021-04-07 10:33 PM | Reply

Does it burn that a guy who "rambles like the homeless guys with mental illness wandering around in parks" is about ten times more interesting than you?

#268 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR

Teri Schiavo was ten times more Interesting than him.

#298 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-07 10:59 PM | Reply

Nope - not KBM as I have already posted I was Jacques_Strap. I remember that name vaguely but no recollection on his/her positions.

Looks like Laura and her keen eye for detail fished you out correctly.

#299 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-08 08:07 AM | Reply

I am more concerned about the bump of coke you seemingly took an hour ago. You don't need to type out every thought that runs through your head.
#251 | POSTED BY FAMILY_VALUES AT 2021-04-07 08:22 PM

You wouldn't believe the amount of executives out there wanting a protege' as an accoucher for their thoughts. And to type memoranda and scientific journal articles as fast as they could dictate. Like I said earlier, many executives would give their right arm for an educated personal secretary.

#300 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-08 08:16 AM | Reply

"Looks like Laura and her keen eye for detail fished you out correctly."

When I asked FV who he was previously, he said he was Jacque_Strap. I remembered the name but nothing about the poster. I speculated Laura would remember though, and she did.

#301 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-04-08 08:22 AM | Reply

Oh, and Jock Strap, the only drugs I take are by prescription only. I can't drink alcohol on them. The are, to wit: Lisinopril, Carvedilol, Rosuvastatin, and Trazodone to get to sleep. I'm also a patient at a pain clinic and Rx'ed 7.5mg hydrocodone q.i.d and Gabapentin. But it has long passed its euphoric properties and simply deadens lower back pain. The spongy tissue among the last 5 vertebrae above my sacrum have deteriorated and are a thorn in my side. Should've been lifting with my legs all those years ago.

#302 | Posted by madscientist at 2021-04-08 08:31 AM | Reply

The supply isn't "constrained."

#229 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-04-07 06:31 PM | FLAG:

You keep posting that. You don't understand the basics of real estate. Vacant doesn't mean somebody doesn't own it and you can't just teleport your homeless population onto private property.

San Diego acknowledges the shortage. Everybody acknowledges the overall shortage in California. Except you lol. I'd say buy a home and learn, but that's not in the cards for you any time soon without a relocation.

#303 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-08 08:40 AM | Reply

IOW, what does it matter if they build 130,000 new units when those units will more than likely be bought up by out of state investors? Am I missing something?

#239 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2021-04-07 07:29 PM | FLAG:

Did you just make up the 130,000 number because it's not far off from what California really needs. 130k would be a great improvement if it's per year over the 85k annually added now. It's a huge step in the right direction if the expansions are sustained, maybe by dumbing the entire Coastal Commission. You'll love looking like Florida. It's part of the road to what California needs to add, at least 170,000 annual to stabilize the supply, that includes your speculator purchases, and double it again for a decade to start easing the crisis.

#304 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-04-08 08:52 AM | Reply

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