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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, April 30, 2021

In a letter obtained by CNN, the Republican leader asks Education Secretary Miguel Cardona to abandon curriculum in American schools that McConnell argues tells a revisionist history of America's founding.

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... McConnell argues tells a revisionist history of America's founding. ...

He should have argued that months ago.

Now it just looks like he is trying to change the reputation he has earned.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-30 01:53 PM | Reply

When all else fails pick at the racism wound.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-30 01:53 PM | Reply

He should have argued that months ago.
Now it just looks like he is trying to change the reputation he has earned.
#1 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

I'm sure he's got a lengthy list of topics described by this statement.

Better to leave an issue on the table to leverage later than be an actual statesman who does what's best for the country.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2021-04-30 02:06 PM | Reply

@#3 ... be an actual statesman who does what's best for the country. ...

Along those lines, I like this old chestnut...

"A politician thinks of the next election; a statement of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of his country. The statesman wishes to steer, while the politician is satisfied to drift."
    --- James Freeman Clarke

   

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-30 02:31 PM | Reply

@#4

Geesh, if I'm quoting, I should at least type it correctly. Lemme try again...

"A politician thinks of the next election; a statesmen of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of his country. The statesman wishes to steer, while the politician is satisfied to drift."
      --- James Freeman Clarke

 

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-04-30 02:33 PM | Reply

"Revisionist history."

I guess these pitches to the rubes must work - they are the backbone of today's GOP, after all - but, sheesh, this sort of nonsense just further reveals the sleaze of people who do/should know better.

#6 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-04-30 04:26 PM | Reply

Cancel Culture is a core GOP value.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-30 04:42 PM | Reply

"Actual, trained, credentialed historians with diverse political views have debunked the project's many factual and historical errors, such as the bizarre and inaccurate notion that preserving slavery was a primary driver of the American Revolution," McConnell writes. "One renowned historian called the project 'so wrong in so many ways.' Citing this debunked advocacy confirms that your Proposed Priorities would not focus on critical thinking or accurate history, but on spoon-feeding students a slanted story."

Can anyone elaborate on how he is wrong about this?

#8 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-04-30 05:40 PM | Reply

Preserving slavery was a primary driver of the American Revolution War.

#9 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-30 05:47 PM | Reply

Civil War
My bad.

#10 | Posted by bored at 2021-04-30 05:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Slavery is (one of the) reasons we "Remember The Alamo!"

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-04-30 07:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden : Go Pound Sand, Loser.

Debunked by who? Ya know what sells books in academia? Taking the other side.

#12 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-04-30 08:36 PM | Reply

Patriotic History is good but not if it contains BS and isn't written by historians.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2021-05-01 12:44 AM | Reply

#11 wish Goatman was here, because when I said that he had a fit.

#14 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-01 12:53 AM | Reply

McConnell must be losing his mind. He thinks it's still 2019.

Stress will do that, doncha' know.

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-05-01 04:24 AM | Reply

"Slavery is (one of the) reasons we "Remember The Alamo!"

It really isn't. Unless you're just using the royal we.

#16 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-01 08:22 AM | Reply

It really isn't. Unless you're just using the royal we.

#16 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

A slave was the lone noncombatant male who lived to tell the provisional rebel government what had happened at the fort.

So the slave that escaped and told the story is not the reason we remember?

I guess it was because of them Mexican immigrants then. Because one of them escaped death, too. But I don't think he bragged about it tho or wanted to anyone to Remember it because he had to lie and claim he was captured to escape ( except he had recently just deserted from the Mexican Army) .

#17 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-01 11:02 AM | Reply

#16, Here's some words so you can brush up.

Slavery in Texas

#18 | Posted by SunTzuMeow at 2021-05-01 11:08 AM | Reply

"A slave was the lone noncombatant male"

Wasn't there a woman and a kid who survived as well?

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2021-05-01 11:10 AM | Reply

There were at least fourteen survivors.

www.pbs.org

#20 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-01 12:01 PM | Reply

Stop even negotiating w the GOP.
Run roughshod over them. They've
been stomping on the Middle Class
and people's rights long enough.
Tell Manchin to get
in line w Democratic Agenda,
or tell him he cannot run any longer
under the Democratic ticket, (as he
basically isn't one) and will
have to switch to Independent or
Republican...(I know this isn't
possible, but dammit, I'm allowed to
dream!)... God f*%$ing damn but that
man pisses me off! Almost as much as
McConnell...

#21 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-05-01 11:39 PM | Reply

#21 Muse.
I'm in total agreement.
Dems have no guarantee 2022 is theirs and the clock is ticking.
Get Manchin back on the farm and move the voting rights, DC statehood, and filibuster agenda forward.

#22 | Posted by Docman at 2021-05-02 07:17 AM | Reply

You guys are geniuses. I'm sure if we push out Senator Manchin that will guarantee those agendas will move forward, and there's no way the filibuster thing will come back to bite the Democrats two years later. So woke, just like teaching that the country started in 1619.

#23 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 07:39 AM | Reply

Who teaches "that the country started in 1619"?
Or is that just your read?

#24 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-05-02 08:28 AM | Reply

Sounds like people really ought to find out what the 1619 Project was about, and what it says.
Unfortunately that gets in the way of using it to divide people and make political gain.

#25 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 08:58 AM | Reply

Regarding the Civil War -
The economic system of the South depended wholly on the exploitation of Slaves.
Slavery was the crux.
The "States Rights" argument was all about slavery and the "right" of the southern states to move slaves from one state to another without interference from the Federal Government.
What was "Bleeding Kansas" about?

How can this even be a point of contention?

#26 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 09:03 AM | Reply

Does the United States have a 400 year history?

#27 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 09:26 AM | Reply

#27 - I'm sure you're trying to make a point.

Were we taught about Columbus?
The Puritans?
In the state I grew up in, were we taught the history of Ponce De Leon?
Were we taught about slavery going on before 1776?
Were we taught about Slaves fighting in the war of Independence?
All these things that influenced, shaped, formed and lead to the founding of our Nation?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Are you putting forth the proposition that nothing matters before July 4th, 1776?

#28 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 09:42 AM | Reply

Sounds like a discussion about the Magna Carta is out of the question...

#29 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 09:44 AM | Reply

"How can this even be a point of contention?"

For starters, it trolls the libs.

But the backstory is that white nationalism is alive and well and over the past 80 years or so -- since the Civil Rights movement -- has become a core belief of the GOP.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 11:04 AM | Reply

"Are you putting forth the proposition that nothing matters before July 4th, 1776?"

Of course not. But it's wrong to suggest anything before that date is a part of this country's legacy.

#31 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No. Don't end the funding. Everybody needs to know what the woke believe. The only way to stop them is to let them keep talking. That's why the Proud Boys are idiots: let them beat up an old crippled guy a wheelchair with a bike-chain for wearing a MAGA hat or attack a pedophile survivor rally in Ireland ("No Pedo Hate"). And then watch CNN call them heroes.

#32 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-02 12:32 PM | Reply

Who teaches "that the country started in 1619"?
Or is that just your read?

#24 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS AT 2021-05-02 08:28 AM | REPLY

"The project dedicated an issue of the magazine to a re-examination of the legacy of slavery in the United States, at the anniversary of the 1619 arrival of the first slaves to Virginia, challenging the notion that the history of the United States began in 1776 or with the arrival of the Pilgrims."

The NY Times. They paid for the project.

The New York Times' 1619 Project excited tremendous controversy because it challenged established narratives that date the founding of America's political development and character to 1620 or 1776.

How is that possible? These are the same Pilgrims who, the year after their arrival, enjoyed the first American Thanksgiving meal with their neighbors from the Wampanoag nation"an event steeped in lore and closely associated with one of the country's most beloved holidays. The same Pilgrims who signed the Mayflower Compact, which arguably planted the first democratic seeds in New World. The same Pilgrims who transported a strain of Christian millennialism to America that influenced the development of political culture throughout the United States.

#33 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-02 12:56 PM | Reply

The actual name you're looking for is Nikole Hannah-Jones, lead writer of the project, who put the founding of America as 1619.

The NYT, without a correction notice, removed that claim from the opening text.

To make it more weird, the NYT, after that notice, had to go on to say that the Tweets of their lead writer about the project, don't mean anything about the project.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-02 01:02 PM | Reply

But it's wrong to suggest anything before that date is a part of this country's legacy.

#31 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

You think that the history of America started in 1776? Weird.

One could argue that the idea of an "America" started when the idea of a New World came into existence.

The term "New World" ("Mundus Novus") was first coined by the Florentine explorer Amerigo Vespucci, in a letter written to his friend and former patron Lorenzo di Pier Francesco de' Medici in the Spring of 1503, and published (in Latin) in 1503"04 under the title Mundus Novus.

He included on the map data gathered by Vespucci during his voyages of 1501-1502 to the New World. Waldseemller named the new lands "America" on his 1507 map in the recognition of Vespucci's understanding that a new continent had been uncovered following Columbus' and subsequent voyages in the late 15th century.

www.loc.gov

#35 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-02 01:16 PM | Reply

"To make it more weird, the NYT, after that notice, had to go on to say that the Tweets of their lead writer about the project, don't mean anything about the project."

Whoops...

I've sat in on a couple of seminars by these "CRT" proponents. They really do believe that literally everything is about race, and they hold Robin DiAngelo up as a hero, and they're proud to admit it.

#36 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 01:19 PM | Reply

"You think that the history of America started in 1776? Weird."

Frak off. The United States did not exist prior to 1776, and it didn't really exist as a singular entity until 1865 (prior to that, it was widely referred to in the plural).

#37 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 01:22 PM | Reply

Yes, the right thinks that teaching our kids about slavery, the Jim Crow era and the civil rights movement is divisive, while passing voter suppression laws and continuing the systemic racism in our legal justice system isn't.

OCU

#38 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-05-02 01:23 PM | Reply

There's just no point in even engaging.

#39 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If all you've got is partisan hack straw man arguments, accusing everyone who isn't in lock step with your ideology that you follow without question as being part of the "other" party, then yes, there really is not point in engaging.

#40 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 01:38 PM | Reply

"They really do believe that literally everything is about race"

What are some things in America's history that are in no way whatsoever about race?

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 01:39 PM | Reply

But it's wrong to suggest anything before that date is a part of this country's legacy.
#31 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

So George Washington wasn't part of this country's legacy until he was... checks math... 44 years old.
That thing about the cheery tree that they taught us in school. What was that about?

Do you realize how dumb you sound, or is that the whole point?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 01:41 PM | Reply

"But it's wrong to suggest anything before that date is a part of this country's legacy."

Roanoke colony?
Plymouth Rock?

They must not teach Russians about these things.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 01:43 PM | Reply

"Do you realize how dumb you sound, or is that the whole point?"

#42 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-05-02 01:41 PM | FLAG: the most self-retortingest self-retorting retort ever

#44 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 01:44 PM | Reply

#40 - You can't be talking to me. I have never accused you of being a member of any political party. I'm also not talking ideology. That post alone, if it's directed to me is why I said, and now repeat, there's just no point in engaging.

Snoofy's points in #41, #42, and #43 are right on target, (except for the snark on Russians)

#45 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 01:52 PM | Reply

"But it's wrong to suggest anything before that date is a part of this country's legacy."

Good God. Is there a Republican History to accompany Republican Math?!?

#46 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-02 01:59 PM | Reply

The colonies where democracies 300 years before 1776. Everybody was armed. In Rhode Island, ordinary women could even vote and inherit property - a first in the world as far as I know....

#47 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-02 02:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

There is, it's called Project 1776.

Here's a spinoff, https://1776unites.com
1776 Unites is a movement to liberate tens of millions of Americans
by helping them become agents of their own uplift and transformation, by embracing the true founding values of our country.

They're preaching to the downtrodden to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps.
And they're doing this with no sense of irony whatsoever.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:03 PM | Reply

Since the United States did not exist at the time, events that happened in the British Colonies prior 1776 were not a part of United States history. They're the legacy of another country. Should we study the events leading up 1776 as context that US history inherited and was informed by? Of course! But as mentioned earlier, the authors of the 1619 project don't see it that way, and proponents of it like Senator Tim Kaine have explicitly said that slavery was not something that was "inherited" by the United States, when it obviously was.

#49 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 02:04 PM | Reply

"The colonies where democracies 300 years before 1776."

1476... You mean, before the Indians were ethnically cleaned?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"slavery was not something that was "inherited" by the United States, when it obviously was."

What point do you think you are making here?
You just said it doesn't matter either way, because "events that happened in the British Colonies prior 1776 were not a part of United States history."

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:08 PM | Reply

"Since the United States did not exist at the time..."

That doesn't mean prologue isn't part of its history.

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-02 02:08 PM | Reply

#45 Thanks Yav.
You have always been a beacon of sanity around these parts.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:10 PM | Reply

Roanoke colony?
Plymouth Rock?

Boston Tea Party? That little skirmish with Cornwallis?

#54 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-02 02:12 PM | Reply

Do you all agree or disagree with Senator Kaine's statement about the U.S. not inheriting slavery?

#55 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 02:14 PM | Reply

11.5 million Africans where shipped to the Americas. 450,000 went to the South, 250,000 to Mexico, 2 million to Brazil, 4 million to Argentina, 2 million to the Caribbean, 27,000 to Canada, and the rest to the other central and south American states. Which is why America is the most racist nation in the world, and everybody but the Northern states reaped the benefits of slavery and is rich today while the Union states are poor.

#56 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-02 02:18 PM | Reply

#55 Again. Why are you asking, when you just said it doesn't matter either way, because "events that happened in the British Colonies prior 1776 were not a part of United States history."

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:19 PM | Reply

#56
What It Means To Be 'Black In Latin America'
www.npr.org

The descendents of slaves brought to Latin and South America, says Gates, don't identify as white or black the way many Americans do. In Brazil, there are 134 categories of blackness to describe someone of African descent.
...
In many countries in Latin America, says Gates, race is no longer recorded as part of the census.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:22 PM | Reply

#58 Yeah. Then go to Mexico. It genocided it's slaves. It rounded them all up, took them to one location in the scrub, and left them there with no tools or supplies. That's why only 0.5% of Mexico is Black today (even though they imported way more slaves per capita than the US), and they all live in that one spot still where segregation was finally ended in 1996.

#59 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-02 02:28 PM | Reply

Oh joy. Now we have "Whataboutism" being attempted.

#60 | Posted by YAV at 2021-05-02 02:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Earlier you were all about the context being included, but now you're like, no, no, not that context. It doesn't fit the narrative.

#61 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 02:41 PM | Reply

Now we have "Whataboutism" being attempted.

Whatever happened to Kellyanne anyway? Is she still hanging out with Maga Lardo?

#62 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-02 02:42 PM | Reply

#61 The context is economics, and slavery is a key factor.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:45 PM | Reply

Yeah, that's the cool thing about Critical Theory: the theory is to be critical of everything you don't like and if asked to defend yourself, never do it but instead switch lines of attack with whataboutism. It's how you can tell a well trained Marxist, it always comes out in the argument because you just have to use Critical Theory back and the whole argument just becomes a list assertions with nobody defending them. Their own tactic is to stop themselves from thinking about what they are saying.

#64 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-02 02:50 PM | Reply

"Whatabout Critical Theory!!??"

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 02:51 PM | Reply

If you want to talk about the history Trans-Atlantic Slave trade, why not go back to May 29th, 1453, which was probably one of (if not the biggest) events that caused it.

#66 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 02:58 PM | Reply

"Whatabout 1453!!??"

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 03:04 PM | Reply

How is a currency note with a unique serial number on it a fundamentally different construct that a non-fungible token?

Other than the ability to print an unlimited number of dollar bills...

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 03:06 PM | Reply

"Whatabout 1619!!??"

Thanks for making my point.

#69 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 03:06 PM | Reply

Oops, wrong thread! :)

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 03:06 PM | Reply

"Thanks for making my point."

You had a point?
What was it?

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 03:07 PM | Reply

Frak off. The United States did not exist prior to 1776, and it didn't really exist as a singular entity until 1865 (prior to that, it was widely referred to in the plural).

#37 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

You freak off herself insurrectionist.

America is more of an idea than any particular place.

The idea of America began when Martin Luther nailed his list of protests on the door of the Catholic Church.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-02 03:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#72 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

And here I thought the idea of America began with the Donner Party. You know, "your people"...

#73 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 03:13 PM | Reply

O'Connell is a little late to the party. He waits until this crap is already in our schools then he start speaking about it. He is exactly what is wrong with our country. People wait until the stuff has taken hold then they decide to chime in. America and its people Black, white, brown, green and all colors need to stand against this anti-American revisionist teaching. It is racist and straight out of the depths of hell.

#74 | Posted by Condorman65 at 2021-05-02 03:41 PM | Reply

"It is racist"

Just listen to these conservatives.
It's racist to teach the history of racism now...

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 03:45 PM | Reply

#33
Nope, not what they say.
Here, have a banana.

#76 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-05-02 04:15 PM | Reply

and straight out of the depths of hell.
#74 | POSTED BY CONDORMAN65

Wow. That lends so much more weight to your point.

#77 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-05-02 05:15 PM | Reply

"Just listen to three liberals."
"Just listen to these conservatives."

Thanks again for proving my point, guys.

#78 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 06:38 PM | Reply

" Wow. That lends so much more weight to your point"

Whoever posted that was obviously stirring the pot, just like Snoofy. The first word was a dead giveaway. (Who's O'Connel?)

I agree that adherents to the CRT cult are racist, by definition. I would say it's rooted in counterculture agitation, which is clearly from Earth, with both domestic and foreign agitators.

#79 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 06:50 PM | Reply

This thread really demonstrates how difficult it is to have a discussion about a complex and multi-faceted issue here on the DR without resorting to simplistic misrepresentations about what the other side is claiming. Which is a shame because from a strictly academic perspective the different societal/economic threads and political movements that eventually lead up to 1776 are fascinating when it comes to understanding the formation of this nation.

#80 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-02 07:18 PM | Reply

This thread really demonstrates how difficult it is to have a discussion about a complex and multi-faceted issue here on the DR without resorting to simplistic misrepresentations about what the other side is claiming.

In addition to that, it stands as a stark example that most people have no idea that racism and prejudice/racial bias are two distinctly different constructs that are not wholly synonymous with each other. Racism (nee - another type of classism) is based on the unearned and unequal power, privilege, and control one group has and maintains over other groups identified as unlike them. These advantages extend into laws, government, employment, and nearly every aspect of public life, commerce, and economics, where the group wielding the power holds systemic advantages and often control over the very lives of the disadvantaged groups - many times with public laws codifying these advantages and privileges to the distinct detriment of those not of the empowered group nor favored by them.

The reason I like to refer to systemic disadvantages as classism is that these same power dynamics can and are used against some in the majority who are denied certain privilege afforded to others simply as a matter of being in the same homogenous group and many of the same types of restrictions are imparted upon different genders, orientations, and non-majoritarian identifiers as well as simple ethnically-identified groups.

Power and control are the underlying tenets of 'racism' that do not exist in simple prejudice or racial bias.

#81 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-05-02 07:50 PM | Reply

#81 is a perfect example of the mental gymnastics and hoops that racists are willing to jump through to claim that racism exhibited by themselves or people they sympathize with isn't actually racism. Doesn't matter if you identify as liberal or conservative, it's the same dance. Racial bigotry and racial discrimination are forms of racism, whether it's done by a system or an individual.

#82 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 08:05 PM | Reply

Racial bigotry and racial discrimination are forms of racism, whether it's done by a system or an individual.
#82 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

You're trying defining systemic racism out of existence.

People like you are exactly why the 1619 Project is so necessary.

You feeling like a victim because Project 1619 exists is because you're a White Nationalist.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 08:11 PM | Reply

"Snoofy's points ... are right on target"

LOL. Go ahead and hitch yourself to that, and goobers like Timmeh Kaine.

#84 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 08:19 PM | Reply

Your ignorance is legendary Sentinel. I literally took the definition out of the dictionary:

racism noun

1: a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2a: the systemic oppression of a racial group to the social, economic, and political advantage of another

b: a political or social system founded on racism and designed to execute its principles

www.merriam-webster.com

I do not extoll that my race is superior to any other race. I do not have any power over white people nor the laws which they live under.

The only reason I despise those like you isn't because of your race, it's because of your ignorance and your refusal to stop wallowing in it when confronted with objective truths.

Racial bigotry and racial discrimination are forms of racism, whether it's done by a system or an individual.

They are not forms of systemic racism when practiced by non-privileged individuals. They are what they are - bigotry and discrimination based on race - and any human can exhibit them. But they are not systemic racism when practiced by a person or group that has no power or influence over those they target. Understanding the language is important so that we know that we're all talking about the same thing.

#85 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-05-02 08:25 PM | Reply

This is why US history should be view with side eye.

#86 | Posted by fresno500 at 2021-05-02 08:34 PM | Reply

#85, you're a racist bigot who's try to peddle the nonsense that the only racism is systemic racism, cherry picking your definitions to define individual racism out of existence. I really don't care if you despise me for calling you and other bigots out on it.

Merriam-Webster lost their credibility when they chose to redefine the word "literally" to include the opposite of what it actually means as an equally valid definition, BTW.

"non-privileged individuals"

Who would that be? If you're basing it on race, then you've proven my point about you being racist.

#87 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 08:40 PM | Reply

"#85, you're a racist bigot"

Calling TonyRoma a racist bigot would be laughable, if only it weren't so intentionally, egregiously offensive.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 08:44 PM | Reply

Historically, however, there is no question that the country was founded by racists and white supremacists, and that much of the early wealth of this country was built on the backs of enslaved Africans, and much of the early expansion came at the expense of the massacre of the land's Indigenous people and broken treaties with them.

Eight of the first 10 presidents personally enslaved Africans. In 1856, the chief justice of the Supreme Court wrote on the Dred Scott case, in an infamous ruling that would be issued in 1857, that Black people "had for more than a century before been regarded as beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations; and so far inferior, that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect."

America is not the same country it was, but neither is it the country it purports to be. On some level this is a tension between American idealism and American realism, between an aspiration and a current condition. America's systems -- like its criminal justice, education and medical systems -- have a pro-white/anti-Black bias, and an extraordinary portion of America denies or defends those biases.

As Mark ----- once put it: "The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. 'Tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning."

Being imprecise or undecided with our language on this subject contributes to the murkiness - and to the myth that the question of whether America is racist is difficult to answer and therefore the subject of genuine debate among honest intellectuals.

Saying that America is racist is not a radical statement. If that requires a longer explanation or definition, so be it. The fact, in the end, is not altered.

Charles Blow

#89 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-05-02 08:44 PM | Reply

"Thanks for making my point."

#69 | POSTED BY SENTINEL
Nice!

#90 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 08:53 PM | Reply

Calling TonyRoma a racist bigot would be laughable, if only it weren't so intentionally, egregiously offensive.

It's simply evidence that he does not respect the language we use as we try to communicate. His argument is self-defeating - in his opinion I'm racist for trying to define the terminology of racism so that we can all talk about the same topic and understand what that topic entails.

It's just anti-intellectualism and sophistry, no more no less. And it's lazy. If as a non-white person, I say to a white person - I don't like you because you and your type held my ancestors in human -------, - nowhere in that sentiment do I claim to be racially superior to that person. How can that sentiment be racism? It's prejudiced, because I may or may not know that individual's feelings on the history I just accused him/her of. I can certainly be accused of bigotry for such sentiments too.

But I am not extolling racism because I used no advantage construct; I yield no power to dictate that person's life or future outside of my spoken words. Inherent in racism are the dynamics of racial superiority and the ability to escape constructs that oppress specific groups of individuals or allow me to gain unearned advantages from those constructs.

#91 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-05-02 08:59 PM | Reply

#91, gold medal in gymnastics. And you shouldn't put yourself down like that. You're effectively saying you aren't capable of doing things that so-called white people are capable of, simply because of the shade of your skin. I believe you are capable.

#92 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 09:05 PM | Reply

"Being imprecise or undecided with our language on this subject contributes to the murkiness"

Choosing to be imprecise with the language spreads FUD.
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
It's a classic denialist tactic.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-02 09:12 PM | Reply

fudusa.com

#94 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-02 09:21 PM | Reply

From another thread:
"I'm sadly only pointing this out because in another thread we have a white nationalist who is trying to say that bigotry and systemic racism are really just the same thing. They're two very different things."

#4 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-05-02 08:32 PM

Thanks again for proving the point I made in #40.

#95 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-03 08:35 PM | Reply

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