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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, May 12, 2021

Abraham Gutman: As my family shelters in Tel Aviv, I'm unsettled that progressive Americans aren't speaking up for Palestinians

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Same reason that they're not talking about Tibetans anymore you're no longer a fashionable minority.

#1 | Posted by Tor at 2021-05-12 11:19 PM | Reply

Progressivism stops at Zionism's door.

#2 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-12 11:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe because a 3000 year old middle east conflict has nothing to do with America.... not our problem to solve IMO.

#3 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-12 11:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Has someone asked them?

Maybe a journalist could give that a try.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-12 11:46 PM | Reply

The original "cancel culture": Criticize Israel and its multi-generational ethnic cleansing and be labeled an anti-Semite.

#5 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-12 11:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 10

If it has "nothing to do with America" why has this country supported it with its military and media over the last 80 years?

Maybe it has everything to do with America and you just aren't understanding the nature of the conflict and what it truly represents.

#6 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-12 11:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Fair enough.. stop financial aide to both sides and let them fight their own fights. Bad enough we have to fend off fascist cultists trying to take us over, let the Jews and the Arabs figure things out on their own.
We can't fight everyone's battles for them, or atleast I don't want to.

Personally I would evict both sides and call the whole area toxic and unfit for human life.

#7 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 12:00 AM | Reply

Toxic and unfit for human life.

It's the land of milk and honey.

The Arabs have pretty much abandoned the Palestinians. Kinda a disparity in aid between the Palestinians and Israelis. But that's alright let them fight it out. You sick bastard.

Maybe casinos in Gaza?

If you don't think Netanyahu wouldn't blitzkrieg Gaza and the west bank if the world would let him, you're a moron.

#8 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 12:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Apparently none of you are on TikTok. They're talking about it, grandpa.

#9 | Posted by techres at 2021-05-13 12:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Que?

#10 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 12:26 AM | Reply

I'm not Jewish, I'm not Arab .... why should it be my problem if two people can't agree on land ownership half way around the world?
Are you going to fight everyone else's fights too or are these two people different from the rest of the world killing each other? Don't look now but Africa, as usual, is a bloody mess... could use an intervention too.

Again, cut off all aid and let them figure it out. Neither side is willing to make a deal so until they do, goodluck!

#11 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 12:29 AM | Reply

Tik-tok isn't full of progressives. It's full of free thinkers and young people who haven't been force-fed ---- by the mainstream media their whole lives. If you want "progressives" (i.ow. hoary democrat boomers) look no further than on this website and names on the NYT & WAPO subscriptions. WaPo predictably urinated on itself by posting the Israeli-manufactured timeline of events. Timeline fabrication" always saying Israel "retaliated or defended" rather than the other way around.

Fake News is not only for Trumptards. Neither is the big lie'

#12 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-13 12:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

After a hundred years of meddling we should suddenly mind our own business. Lol. We (the west) arbitrarily made the borders. And financed one side in particular, but go ahead and fight it out.

#13 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 12:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Are we going to forever be in this conflict just because people before I was born thought this was a good plan?
What do you see letting us walk away?
Total peace?
Even playing field?
The rapture?
Just curious

#14 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 12:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The rapture, good point. Lotsa folks are looking forward to it.

Anyway your right, we didn't give a ---- about Pol Pot, we don't give a ---- about Myanmar. We don't give a ---- about the Uighers. We don't give a ---- about the Palestinians. You're right. I concede.

#15 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 12:57 AM | Reply

I wish we could save the world from itself, but we don't have the people or the resources.
But I rarely see where us dropping explosives on other humans fixes anything.
Are you ready to go fight for the Uighers?
Or the Myanmar people?
How about Africa, no shortage of carnage there.
But why ignore Central and South America... they hold their own when it comes to evil as well.
We could fight everyday for decades and help nobody.... kinda like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

#16 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 01:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Okay, all good points. My dad used to say "everyone has been conquered ". It's a messed up world, but we helped.

#17 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 01:19 AM | Reply

I feel you.. Im an American with native American blood... my problem is my people were conquered by my people.

#18 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 01:34 AM | Reply

:^) And your Rock hall of fame post was spot on.

#19 | Posted by bruceaz at 2021-05-13 01:39 AM | Reply

;)

#20 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 01:43 AM | Reply

Maybe because a 3000 year old middle east conflict has nothing to do with America.... not our problem to solve IMO.

#3 | POSTED BY 503JC69

Sounds like a cool charity to start.

Social Justice Warriors with Borders.

SJWwB!

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2021-05-13 03:17 AM | Reply

Tik-tok isn't full of progressives. It's full of free thinkers

LOL sure.

What an idiot.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2021-05-13 03:20 AM | Reply

After a hundred years of meddling we should suddenly mind our own business. Lol. We (the west) arbitrarily made the borders. And financed one side in particular, but go ahead and fight it out.

#13 | POSTED BY BRUCEAZ

Bingo.

We (the west) created that problem. We can't simply walk away from it. Well, not if we want to be seen as moral, decent people we can't.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2021-05-13 03:21 AM | Reply

#16 | POSTED BY 503JC69

There's a ton of space between active involvement via military intervention and simply walking away...

#24 | Posted by jpw at 2021-05-13 03:23 AM | Reply

Since Trump went and gave Israel Jerusalem by moving our embassy... we are not seen as an unbiased agent of peace.

We should provide medical aid to both sides but not be involved in the funding or the fighting of that war IMO.

Again, when can we disengage if somehow America is responsible for the Conflict ? Are we obligated forever to be involved in Jew vs Arab conflicts?

#25 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-05-13 06:09 AM | Reply

Why are we trying to hold up the Palestinians as some innocent arbiter of peace and justice? They are up to their eyeballs in blood caused not by Israel or the Jewish People but their own hands. Of course Israel isn't blameless. Their hamfisted approach is draconic and unnecessary. But if you really cared about history ... .. if you really knew about the conflict, its cause can be righteously placed at the feet of the Palestinians.

You want to act like the Palestinians have some historical right to self rule of that region. Like they have an ancestral claim to self rule that was stolen from them. They don't. They have NEVER been an autonomous people, not in that region, and not anywhere. The Jewish people actually DO have an ancestral claim of self rule that was stolen from them. Thousands of years ago to be sure, but at least it's a claim. After world war 2 it was given back to them due to the atrocities committed against the Jewish people at the hands of the Nazis. The world decided that. Not just one country. The WORLD.

Just because the world didn't decide in their favor ... when they have no ancestral claim, how long did they wait to join the surrounding arab countries and attack the new nation? Five damn minutes? And they are martyrs of peace and and oppression? Spare me.

Again, Israel needs to be brought to heel and cease their expansion and curtail their own extremists. But let's not all gloss over the horrific history of the Palestinians, and their laughably false claim to autonomous rule.

#26 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 07:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I have been for years. Threads about the topic don't tend to do well here for some reason.

drudge.com

#27 | Posted by qcp at 2021-05-13 08:44 AM | Reply

Found the Progressive voices.

They're busy yelling at Gal Gadot on Twitter.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-13 08:55 AM | Reply

The cold war is over, and Israel doesn't need our help (200 nukes, 11 armored divisions). The Arabs consider Palestinians to be less than trailer trash and won't let them immigrate. Their Sesame Street has muppets wearing suicide vests and kids saying "When I grow up, I want to be a suicide bomber!". Mein Kampf is the #2 best seller behind the Koran.

Yeah, that's a little hard get behind either way.

#29 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-13 08:56 AM | Reply

Well they need to be separated. Gaza is an atrocity. There has to be a way to give Palestinians their own territory, the same way we did to the Jews.

But Nerf nailed it, I don't want to be anti-Semitic. I'm half Jewish to begin with. The Palestinians are not blameless, but what do you do when you trapped in a barrel like fish getting shot at and continuously invaded.

It's a messed up situation we helped create. We give Israel a better standard of living than we give ourselves so they can commit the same genocide we rescued them from.

Something has to change.

But I've resigned to the fact that we won't help, best we can do is not hurt more.

#30 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-05-13 10:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We did help create it no doubt. But the Palestinians trying to join foreign armies to come charging back in to conquer the brand new country that was literally only weeks old, that makes them equally responsible in what happened to them ... perhaps more culpable. The Israelis took steps to protect themselves from people that IMMEDIATELY tried to slaughter them. That's how they ended up like this. Again, Israel is by no means blameless, but to say Gaza and the West Bank are atrocities and attribute it to Israel actions without showing their own hands in their fate is disingenuous at best, and willful whitewashing history to show favoritism to the Palestinians.

#31 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 10:50 AM | Reply

The original "cancel culture": Criticize Israel and its multi-generational ethnic cleansing and be labeled an anti-Semite.

#5 | Posted by NerfHerder

Very accurate. Being critical of Israel is not being an Anti-Semite necessarily. Their is a startling rise of actual Anti-Semitism in the world as a whole in recent years again and the USA is no exception.

I may be jaded but I don't believe it started as an attempt at ethnic cleansing but it would take more than a post to explain the complicated history. Bottom line is it quickly progressed to it.

#32 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-05-13 10:56 AM | Reply

"The Israelis took steps to protect themselves from people that IMMEDIATELY tried to slaughter them."

Not really about slaughter for slaughter's sake.
It's not like they're trying to eradicate Jews.
They just want their land back.
They'd want it back no matter who took it from them.
It just so happens, it was taken by Zionists, with the support of the West.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 11:53 AM | Reply

"Their" Land? Nothing changed except it going from a protectorate off one country to being the autonomous state of Israel. They had lost NOTHING. No one has been removed from a single house. The ink was barely dry on threatened document that created it as a nation. The Palestinians literally had not a single thing different from the day it was created to the day they attacked.

#34 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 02:11 PM | Reply

I meant: No one "had" been. Past tense. Of course they have been since the Israelis were forced to defend themselves from a combined attack along several fronts with the Palestinians leaving the new country to join these foreign armies.

#35 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 02:12 PM | Reply

"There has to be a way to give Palestinians their own territory, the same way we did to the Jews."

Are you British? French maybe?

Then don't give yourself credit for being part of the problem.

Israel's problem is that, for whatever reason, they choose to revere (or lick the boots) of the Orthodox Jewish community, who really are some odd hybrid of Mormon Fundamentalism and the Islamic State. Why the Israeli's pay for them, much less put up with them, is beyond me.

I think that there will always be a Palestinian element that thinks the land is theirs as well...in much the same was as the Orthodox Jews.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-13 02:35 PM | Reply

Zionists have been working to ethnically cleanse the area for nearly 100 years. Hasbarists, evangelical "Christians" and other apologists have been working nearly as hard in the same span of time to make it sound legitimate.

Basically, what it comes down to is this: a fanatical, ideological thief was invited by the rest of the world to take over and plunder land that didn't belong to "the rest of the world" in the first place. The "rest of the world" certainly is very generous with other people's stuff.

All people that originally inhabitated that land- Jewish, Christian and Muslim should be living in one state with democratic elections much like our country. That pluralist territory, known for hundreds of years in modern, recorded history as "Palestine" was like that before Zionism came to town, and yes, there were violent flareups every now and then but for the most part the preceding 100 years leading up to the arrival of the Zionist and its supremo-fascist ideology was relatively peaceful.

Make no mistake, Zionism is a poison just like Nazism or any other white supremacist movement here in the United States. To deny that is to believe the REAL "big lie" and makes one no better than the average Trumptard assaulting cops and storming into the Capitol.

#37 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-13 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They just want their land back."

"Their" land?

As in the Palestinians land?

So you dispute the historical understanding of the region we now call Israel as having been the land of the Jews for thousands of years? I mean, that's fair...I don't put much faith in the bible either. But I did think this was a well established historical fact.

...so where do you place the region the Jewish tribes historically called home?

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-13 03:11 PM | Reply

#30 | Posted by bocaink

Yeah. First of all we can call them what they are: Transjordians. Then we can have the UN give control of the occupied Territories back to Jordan. (We own the Un, but the Arab world would say no).

There is one problem.

Jordan doesn't want them. It's like adopting Gypsies if your a Nazi. They would prefer it to be an Israeli problem.

#39 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-13 03:18 PM | Reply

And they had their chance. They where getting everything. Everybody in the world expected a yes. Arafat said: the Palestinian constitution demands the destruction of Israel".

But he died a martyr so he's in Heaven now.

#40 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-13 03:34 PM | Reply

#37. Again. You are trying to imply that they took something from the Palestinians, and gave it to the Jewish people. They didn't. The Palestinians were not in control of that land the day before it became Israel, and it wasn't the day after. What's the difference? That's right, they were pouting because they weren't chosen over it becoming Israel. We just keep continuing to gloss over that the Palestinians didn't wait too see what would happen when the ink dried, and instead attacked. Who knows what could have happened if they had just tried to be patient and see what was in store in the newly formed country. Maybe they would have more of a voice in government. Maybe Gaza and the West Bank wouldn't have to be hotbeds of violence. We'll never know because they didn't wait. The only thing they wanted was to murder Jews and steal what wasn't theirs. Was NEVER theirs.

But again this doesn't excuse the hamfisted violent response by the Israeli government. But they ARE the ones legitimately trying to defend themselves.

#41 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 03:36 PM | Reply

Quit sending Israel billions of $$ until they pull back from their trespass and things will start changing.

#42 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-05-13 03:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You are trying to imply that they took something from the Palestinians, and gave it to the Jewish people. They didn't. The Palestinians were not in control of that land the day before it became Israel, and it wasn't the day after.

Now do the Native Americans!

It wasn't their land either!

Brilliant!

#43 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-05-13 03:40 PM | Reply

You can tell a Zionist apologist when they intentionally misread rational and truthful statements such as:

" All people that originally inhabitated that land- Jewish, Christian and Muslim should be living in one state with democratic elections much like our country. That pluralist territory, known for hundreds of years in modern, recorded history as "Palestine" was like that before Zionism came to town, and yes, there were violent flareups every now and then but for the most part the preceding 100 years leading up to the arrival of the Zionist and its supremo-fascist ideology was relatively peaceful. "

to suit their own Israeli-centric narrative and refer to the targeting of entire apartment complexes and the murder of dozens of children as "Ham-fisted".

#44 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-13 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Everyone I met in Israel and the West Bank was as warm and gracious as I could ever hope to imagine meeting anywhere else, whether Israeli, Arab-Israeli, or Palestinian. This all makes me weep.

#45 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 03:54 PM | Reply

#44 but did those things happen before, or after the Israelis had to go to war to defend their nation that was literally days old? Had they kicked anyone out of a single apartment? A single house before war was declared?

No logical reason exists for Israel having to go to war days after being formed. None. Israel's response to it is out of line yes. But it's still a RESPONSE. In other words, the Palestinians CHOSE the violence by being completely interning to entertain anything except violence.

#46 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 03:59 PM | Reply

#45. I have spent a decent amount of time in Israel. One of my close friends is a Jewish heart surgeon. He was the head of cardiac care at a major hospital in Tel Aviv. He had numerous Arab and Jewish doctors that worked for him, and the whole team were some of the best people I've ever met.

#47 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Progressives may be preoccupied, rightly or not, with our own radical rwingers who are trying to overthrow our government by bombarding our minorities and immigrants, and anyone who supports them, with injustice and death.

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2021-05-13 04:10 PM | Reply

The problem that a liberal such as myself has is the following: The behavior of Israel, towards Palestinians especially under the leadership of Netanyahu has been criminal Using money and arms from the United States the leadership of Israel has persecuted, evicted and murdered the Arab people living in their ancestral lands. No different than what we see in Myanmar, Tibet and many other areas of the world. But it is difficult to whole-heartedly support the Palestinian leadership in this confrontation when they have refused all overtures at peaceful resolution and continue to support thousands of attacks by Palestinians from Palestinian territories into Israel targeting civilians. It is difficult to be intellectually honest when such honesty requires the full throated condemnation of the leaders on both sides. Maybe it is human nature, but it seems that pretty much anyone feels pressured to choose a side. To hell with them all. I will actively reengage when either side shows willingness to compromise on substantive issues.

#49 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-13 04:18 PM | Reply

Why are conservatives promoting the continued apartheid state and subjugation of the Palestinians?

#50 | Posted by fresno500 at 2021-05-13 04:19 PM | Reply

Because I truly believe Israel has a right to exist. The alternative is the Palestinians trying to "push them into the sea" which is a direct quote from an Arab general during the Arab-Israeli War ... .. which began in earnest the moment Israel was becoming a country. They haven't even had time to start setting up any kind of government ... . And were already fighting a war.

There is no and never had been room for compromise on the part of the Palestinians. They proved that by starting a war right out of the gate. Didn't even try to wait a minute to see what would happen.

I personally support an autonomous Palestine separate from Israel. But will they Ever agree to it? Just make the West Bank Palestine and be done with it. But it would never be accepted.

#51 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:26 PM | Reply

"Their" Land? Nothing changed except it going from a protectorate off one country to being the autonomous state of Israel. They had lost NOTHING. No one has been removed from a single house. The ink was barely dry on threatened document that created it as a nation. The Palestinians literally had not a single thing different from the day it was created to the day they attacked.

Posted by ABH

Israel has been seizing Palestinian land for decades that was granted to Palestinians under the 1947 UN agreement.

Here's a map showing just how much Palestinian land Israel has stolen from them 1947-2005:

www.palestineportal.org

And Israel is still at it

#52 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-13 04:30 PM | Reply

"Because I truly believe Israel has a right to exist."

Why, because the U.N. says so?

You hate pretty much everything else the U.N. says.

What makes the Balfour Declaration any different?

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 04:32 PM | Reply

52. None of that land was seized until AFTER the Arab Israeli war. They seized it in order to give themselves more defensible borders after they had to fight immediately with pretty much every surrounding country. Would they have seized it anyway? I don't know. No one does because no one paused and took a breath in the beginning. It was war war war.

#54 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:33 PM | Reply

53. "When in doubt, make stuff up" seems to be your mantra. On what basis, other than the depravity of your own mind do you think you know how I feel about the UN?

#55 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:35 PM | Reply

"I personally support an autonomous Palestine separate from Israel. But will they Ever agree to it? Just make the West Bank Palestine and be done with it. But it would never be accepted."

Israel in her current state of leadership will never agree to that.

Never.

There are hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West Bank, and more arrive all the time.

Israeli PM Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a right-wing Jew for entertaining the notion of not extending Israel's borders "from the River to the Sea."

Eretz Yisrael is what Israel wants to be, and they'll bulldoze as many Palestinians villages as needed to get it.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 04:36 PM | Reply

ABH, Steve Lookner is currently live covering the story on Agenda Free TV. He is a former SNL and Seinfeld writer who is now doing straight news as a one man op. I recommend his stuff highly.

#57 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 04:37 PM | Reply

#55 Don't leave us in suspense. Set the record straight. Tell us how much you support the UN.

Happy call your bluff on this one. Happy to be wrong but I don't think I am.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 04:40 PM | Reply

My question is, why is everyone so willing to hold the Palestinians blameless? Do you really not see the cascading effect the Arab Israeli war had on Israel in terms of protectionist policies, and the general fear it instilled in the people?

#59 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:41 PM | Reply

BTW Apparently, at least three rockets fired from Lebanon today, so Hezbollah seems to be testing Iron Done, too. Iran collecting the data all around, no doubt.

#60 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 04:43 PM | Reply

#58. Call away. I happen to think as an entity the UN is very necessary and helps world. The UNCHR in particular.

#61 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My question is, why is everyone so willing to hold the Palestinians blameless? Do you really not see the cascading effect the Arab Israeli war had on Israel in terms of protectionist policies, and the general fear it instilled in the people?

#59 | Posted by ABH

Israel acts like Nazi storm troopers in occupied territories (what remains that they haven't stolen).

We'd probably be inclined to do the same ... like our forefathers did to end British tyranny.

#62 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-13 04:47 PM | Reply

But they didn't act that way at first ... because they were never given an opportunity to act at all. Here's your country. Oh by the way all of your neighbors are invading tomorrow. Have a great time!

That's literally what happened. Palestinians weren't in charge. They weren't stripped of any power. Control was given over from the brits to the Israel. On paper nothing changed for them, yet they poured and cried and decided to invade instead of waiting to see what the change actually meant. I have ZERO sympathy for them. At every turn they could do the right thing and they don't.

#63 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 04:51 PM | Reply

"Here's your country. Oh by the way all of your neighbors are invading tomorrow"

Here's your country, it's full of Muslims whose villages Israel proceeded to wipe off the face of the earth.

You know when Iran threatens to remove Israel from the face of the earth? What Israel did to their own people who aren't Jews is what Iran is referring to.

Anyway, you think the West handing out countries, aka "Nation Building" was the right call?

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 04:59 PM | Reply

The fact is, in the game of guns, he who fires first shares the lions share of the blame for the violence that follows. That wasn't the israelis. Tens of thousands of Palestinians left the country and joined foreign armies thinking they were going to kill Jews and drive them to the sea days after the country was formed.

Again Israel's response is inexcusable. But the lions share of blame falls at the feet of those who started it.

#65 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:01 PM | Reply

64 What is your solution, Snoofy. Be specific. Thank you.

#66 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 05:02 PM | Reply

#64. Again. That happened AFTER the Palestinians joined foreign armies and tried to wipe them off the earth. Do you really think Israel should not be worried after that about their neighbors plotting to kill them. They literally JUST tried to!

#67 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:02 PM | Reply

"The UNCHR in particular."

The US isn't part of that.
You think we should be, or do you vote Republican?

You think W. should be on trial for War Crimes in The Hague? I don't believe that for a second.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 05:03 PM | Reply

1st question yes I do believe we should be. And no to the second.

#69 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:04 PM | Reply

"That happened AFTER the Palestinians joined foreign armies and tried to wipe them off the earth"

So?

I guess some Ethnic Cleansing is more equal than others, to you.

Are you a Zionist Jew, or just a Zionist?

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 05:05 PM | Reply

What's sad is Israel has given the world all this ammunition by heading such a heavy handed response. But no one can quite work their way back to the Arab Israeli war and see that the Israelis weren't the ones striking first. We just want to forget the part that their neighbors immediately tried to murder them.

#71 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:06 PM | Reply

#39

I understand that Rat, that's why that's not going to work. I get it, nobody likes them, they are possibly the world's most hated people...but they've gotta go somewhere. Paraguay maybe? With Jordan being such a big U.S. ally, you would think there would be some kind of enticement for an East Timor type of resolution.

#42,

The minute you start talking about defunding Israel's genocide, you get attacked for hating Jews. It's a real phenomenon. I don't blame Jews for Israel, the state's behavior. I blame extremists like Nutty Yahoo.

#72 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-05-13 05:07 PM | Reply

No one is saying the Israelis are blameless. I've said a million times their response has been way out of line. But try to look at the origin. Not just what happened after that pesky and inconvenient attempt to ethnically cleanse the Israelis from the face of the earth. The second time in a decade I may add.

I am neither type of Zionist. Unless simply thinking Israel has a right to exist makes me one. I just happen to be a student of all history. Not just the parts that support my world view which seems to be a common theme here.

#73 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:10 PM | Reply

#66 I'll make it easy for you: Israel was having three terrorist attack a day before they built the Wall. Now it's one or two a year. The answer is to accuse Trump of Racism.

#74 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-13 05:10 PM | Reply

72
When I was there, Israel was pretty much like any liberal European nation I've been to. The UN mandate says....in 1948? Israel is a liberal, if problematic, democracy in a region where it would otherwise be a whole lot worse.

#75 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 05:14 PM | Reply

Too bad Nautilus didn't work. We built a laser to defend airstrips from mortar and helicopter attack and stuff. It did that, but it wasn't mobile. Low intensity conflicts require a mobile defense platform if its line of sight.

#76 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-05-13 05:16 PM | Reply

Over the transom: IDF ground forces now attacking Gaza....

#77 | Posted by Karabekian at 2021-05-13 05:21 PM | Reply

Bah (in part) to several answers near the top.

1). Yes to the Zionism quote...several Jews
are Liberal, but many are not. So 'yes'
(in part).
2. Covid fatigue.
3. Trump fatigue.
4. GOP induced fatigue.

In short, it is tough (and likely unhealthy)
to stay amped up 100% of the time for 100%
of the battles. Being a raging protestor
is (to some degree) a young man's/woman's game... Older people tend to pick their battles...

#78 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-05-13 05:44 PM | Reply

The fact is, in the game of guns, he who fires first shares the lions share of the blame for the violence that follows. That wasn't the israelis. Tens of thousands of Palestinians left the country and joined foreign armies thinking they were going to kill Jews and drive them to the sea days after the country was formed.

Again Israel's response is inexcusable. But the lions share of blame falls at the feet of those who started it.

#65 | Posted by ABH

Israel started it when they attacked protesters at the al-Agsa mosque.

Israeli police storm al-Aqsa mosque ahead of Jerusalem Day march

The latest violence came as Israel's police commissioner, Kobi Shabtai, intervened following appeals from the Israeli domestic security agency the Shin Bet and the Israeli military to reroute a controversial annual "flag march" march by Israeli nationalists away from Muslim Quarter of Jerusalem's Old City amid fears it could provoke a further escalation.

Anger had been mounting for weeks among Palestinians ahead of a now-delayed Israeli court ruling on whether authorities were able to evict dozens of Palestinians from the Old City's Sheikh Jarrah neighbourhood and give their homes to Jewish settlers.

www.theguardian.com

#79 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-13 05:45 PM | Reply

79. Don't be naive. We are discussing historical context of the Palestinians starting this conflict during the Arab Israeli war. Not what caused this latest flare up.

#80 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 05:52 PM | Reply

But let's talk about al Aqsa mosque. One of the big holy sites of Islam. We should all feel sorry for Muslims because it's in Jerusalem, part of Israel and surrounded by the Jewish people. Right? Let's just ignore the fact that the al aqsa mosque was erected on top of a razed to the ground Jewish holy site that was already ancient when the Muslims destroyed it and built al Aqsa.

The point is, no one here is blameless. But the Palestinians petitioned the world court for their own state abs were denied. Instead of being grown ups and trying to figure out what the RW state of Israel would look like and how they would fit into it, they acted like petulant, violent children. The origins of this violence lays at their feet.

The Israelis wholly own their overzealous and horrific response. But they did need to respond to the attempt to ethnically cleanse them ... .. again ... ..

#81 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 06:05 PM | Reply

Israel has been thumbing their nose at the world community over Palestinians for decades.

And stealing the land that was given to them at the same time Israel was given theirs by the UN.

The Israeli government are no better than Nazi storm troopers within Palestinian territories, or the Nazis were at seizing land.

#82 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-13 06:30 PM | Reply

ABH

Did you LOOK at the map I linked?

Therein lies one of the two main problems.

#83 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-13 06:32 PM | Reply

The Israelis wholly own their overzealous and horrific response. But they did need to respond to the attempt to ethnically cleanse them ... .. again ... ..

#81 | Posted by ABH

The palestinians weren't cleansing anything, they were being pushed out of their homes by religious extremist zionists. If someone kept stealing your land a chunk at a time, and the authorities didn't care, what would be your response?

#84 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-13 06:38 PM | Reply

A one state solution with common respect extended by both sides. Rule of law, meaning equal protection under the law. If Jews kill palestinians, they do the Same Time that Palestinians do for killing Jews. No religious --------, a secular Israel not the "land of the Jews",but rather a secular state that gives equal rights and citizenship to all.

Never happen In a Million years. The people there are too primitive and damaged by history to be truly open to a real non theocratic state.

Israel is doomed, it will become a charnal house of murders and genocide. The only peace I see there is the peace of the grave.

I'm glad I don't live within 5000 miles of that toilet. I see nothing but death and injustice coming out of that --------.

#85 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-05-13 07:03 PM | Reply

#84. So please tell me how that was happening prior to the Arab Israeli war. It wasn't? Oh. Weird.

#86 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 07:35 PM | Reply

#84. So please tell me how that was happening prior to the Arab Israeli war. It wasn't? Oh. Weird.

#86 | Posted by ABH

how does that justify zionist settlers just claiming more and more territory TODAY?

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-13 08:14 PM | Reply

It doesn't. I have said the Israelis response is wrong as nauseum. But you are blinded by Israeli hate.. so much so, you can't see that the the first to shoot shares more of responsibility for the violence that violence that follows.

#88 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-13 08:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I have said the Israelis response is wrong as nauseum."

Curious, what is wrong with it?

From earlier:

"No one has been removed from a single house."

I guess you're right, the King David Hotel was technically not a house.

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-13 08:41 PM | Reply

Some people should read the history of Palestine and Israel.
The conflict started in 1897 when the First Zionist Congress proposed the Basel Program seeking a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
Note: this was while Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Sultan and before WWI and WWII.
Palestinians were living in Palestine at that time.

Next big event was the Balfour Declaration in 1917 by the British government supporting a Jewish homeland in Palestine.
This was done in part to get the support of Jews living in Palestine to support Britain in its war with the Ottomans. Britain ruled the world by pitting one local faction against another.

The opening words of the declaration represented the first public expression of support for Zionism by a major political power. The term "national home" had no precedent in international law, and was intentionally vague as to whether a Jewish state was contemplated. The intended boundaries of Palestine were not specified, and the British government later confirmed that the words "in Palestine" meant that the Jewish national home was not intended to cover all of Palestine. The second half of the declaration was added to satisfy opponents of the policy, who had claimed that it would otherwise prejudice the position of the local population of Palestine and encourage antisemitism worldwide by "stamping the Jews as strangers in their native lands". The declaration called for safeguarding the civil and religious rights for the Palestinian Arabs, who composed the vast majority of the local population
Again, before WWII and the Nazis.

Britain started the Israel-Palestine conflict, not the US.

#90 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-13 08:43 PM | Reply

In 1938 Ben-Gurion was preparing to wage war to take over all of Palestine.
Again before WWII and concentration camps.

In 1946 my uncle was in the British Army keeping order between the Jews and Palestinians. Once he was responding to a Jewish terrorist attack and shot at, but missed, Menachem Begin.

In 1947 the UN partitioned Palestine against the wishes of Palestinians and their Arab neighbors.
The Jews and Palestinian militias and terrorists fought each other.

In 1948 Britain bugged out and the Jewish leadership in Palestine declared the establishment of the state of Israel.
That was the trigger for the invasion by surrounding Arab states and the escalation of the 47-49 war.

Britain abandoned Palestine after supporting Jewish settlements and likely feeling sorry for the plight of European Jews that survived the Holocaust.

The pottery barn rule says Britain should help fix it, but they are too weak now and the US has stepped in to the ME in part to protect the Suez Canal, after Egypt nationalized it and Israel, Britain and France invaded Egypt to take it back.

The Palestinians have less blame for the early conflict that Britain and Israel, after all their land was taken from them and most were forced to flee their homeland. They were victims of multiple conflicts until out of desperation they choose terrorism to fight back against their Apartheid.

#91 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-13 09:22 PM | Reply

#91 All great information, but already well known. Both sides were working towards an autonomous state. Once their petitions were heard, and the Palestinian side was declined in favor of the Israeli's petition, that SHOULD have been "zero" day. A clean slate to see what would happen and what the new country would look like. They had no idea what was going to happen and SHOULD have given i time to coalesce into a coherent and functional government. Would we have still ended up here? Maybe. Who can tell? Instead of acting like adults, and giving a moments pause to see how things were going to go, their first thought was violence, war, and ethnically cleansing the Jews by "driving them into the sea." Make no mistake, the Holocaust was literally less than a year old... 6 million had just been slaughtered like cattle.... and the Palestinians were acting like they wanted to finish the job. It's not like the Holocaust was several decades old when this happened, it was literally yesterday for them. Try some EMPATHY for how they were feeling in that moment. Of course they defended themselves and furiously. If my family and everyone like me had just had a coordinated and methodical campaign to exterminate them, I would be hyper vigilant to ensure it didn't happen again.

I have no sympathy for the Palestinians in that moment back in the 40s. They started this mess to me for their complete commitment to violence without even trying to see what would happen. I do however, have EMPATHY for the Palestinians of today. It is a huge mess. The Israelis have allowed squatters to steal land, and have bargained in bad faith for years. But that doesn't cloud my view of history. RECENT history is important of course, but you can't just ignore the origin of it, even if it is almost 80 years old at this point.

#92 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 05:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Netanyahu has no incentive to end this. He was on his way out and facing prison for corruption.

Wonder why the Israeli storm troopers attacked protesters at the al Aqba mosque? Now you know.

#93 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 07:15 AM | Reply

This latest conflict started because of Israelis stealing Arab land ... again

#94 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 07:17 AM | Reply

"The latest flare up from over 7 decades of violence that the Palestinians unequivocally started in 1947, happened after the Israelis quelled a violent protest outside the Al Aqsa mosque."

FTFY

#95 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 09:00 AM | Reply

I still remember when Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated. The far right in Israel are just as bad as the terrorists who attacked that country. They're all addicted to war and bloody conflict, and they really don't want to see peace unless it's all or nothing.

#96 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-14 09:09 AM | Reply

You didn't fix ----, ABH

Violent protests? Ha! They were there by themselves until Israel's storm troopers showed up. And the protests were over Israelis stealing MORE land, as they've been doing for decades. Same incitement tactics Sharon used when he stormed the Temple Mount years ago. Only to rile things up for his own political gain.

Israel's government's treatment of Palestinians isn't any better than 1935 Germany's towards Jews. Same tactics: Steal land, rile up emotions towards 'them.'

I used to support Israel, but now I think their leaders are little but thugs.

#97 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 09:29 AM | Reply

And i agree with your assessment of their current leaders. But again, he who shoots first shares the most blame for the violence that follows. That is squarely and totally on the shoulders of the Palestinians. They shot first in the Arab Israeli war Without even letting the ink dry, and before the Israeli government has displaced a SINGLE person.

No one can say their would be such massive displacements if they hasn't attacked Right away. Politically, if they hadn't , they would be in a much more sympathetic position on the world stage. But we'll never know since they just couldn't take a non violent breath back then.

#98 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 09:38 AM | Reply

But again, he who shoots first shares the most blame for the violence that follows.

That was the Israelis.

They treat even their own Arab citizens little different than Germany did Jews in the 1930's.

#99 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 09:46 AM | Reply

little differently than Germany did Jews in the 1930's.

#100 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 09:47 AM | Reply

And it's all because of right wing Israeli politicians like Netanyahu.

Netanyahu WANTS violence. His own freedom depends on it now, facing corruption charges. He was going to lose his PM status until his storm troopers showed up al al Aqba. He WANTS this to continue.

Sharon did the same thing when he violated the Temple Mount ... just as a possible peace agreement was about to be undertaken.

---- right wing Israelis, and right wingers everywhere. They're nothing but troublemakers.

#101 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 09:51 AM | Reply

It's like you just can't get back to the 1947 Arab Israeli war, can you?

The Israelis did NOT shoot first, And are not as responsible for this cascading violence across 7 decades. Your almost there, just look back a LITTLE beyond this week. It's like historical context is totally lost.

#102 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 09:53 AM | Reply

ABH

I'm very well read, thank you.

This week is just a repeat of many other weeks where right wing Israelis caused violent clashes. They do not want peace. Violence is what keeps them in power. Period.

You didn't look at the 1947-2005 map I posted above, did you?

Sorry, I have ZERO sympathy for Israel anymore. They're thugs who act like the very people who oppressed them and stole their land in 1930's Germany.

#103 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 10:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Historical context?

They were given land to form a country (after many terrorist acts aimed at Britain). Then, over time, they've stolen back most of the Palestinian land and allowed right wingers to act with impunity.

They treat their own Arab Israeli citizens as second class citizens.
They've blockaded humanitarian shipments
They've stolen back most of the land Palestinians were granted by the UN
They occupy the remaining land with troops who acts like brown shirts
Now they're grabbing land from Arab Israeli citizens in Jerusalem

---- 'em.

#104 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 10:10 AM | Reply

#98 Does the US shoulder the blame in Iraq and Iran,having "shot first"? Was the Islamic State justified in its excesses because the west moved against their societies before they got rolling? If your narrative holds, the US has little to say about much of anything in the ME.

It's about power and realpolitik. The Israelis can kill with impunity and this is ok with you based on something that happened 70 some years ago? I doubt you are logically consistent about this concerning anyone but the palestinians, are you?

#105 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-05-14 10:11 AM | Reply

Of course I did. I am well versed in Israeli history. But as I've stated numerous times that you just can't seem to grasp, the world denied the Palestinians petition to take over governorship from the British. It was awarded to the Israelis. They never even bothered to figure out what that meant and just went straight to war. No one had been displaced by the Israeli government, yet. Not a single person before they attacked.

It's possible to be totally against the Israeli response, and realize that ultimately, the Palestinians caused this by not being adults and trying to figure out what Israel meant for them. It may have meant this if they hadn't gone to war. May have. But we'll never know because they didn't wait. They went straight for bloodshed.

The laughable aspect to this is, they could have made Israeli look much more the villain and themselves the victim if they hadn't attacked immediately. And, it wouldn't have provided Israel all the justification they needed to seize land that was eminently more defensible. It was just such a monumentally stupid decision. I don't understand how you can just ignore their own hand they played in this. They were the spark that lit the fire. Israel has done its share of fanning the flames. But they at least didn't start the fire.

#106 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 10:18 AM | Reply

ABH

You seem insistent on mentioning Israel in 1947

Ignoring the fact that Israel's very creation was the result of terrorism against the British!

Like 1944, when the LHI assassinated the British Minister for the Middle East, Lord Moyne, or when they blew up railroad cars full of British soldiers, a wing of the King David hotel, and a slew of other assassinations and terrorist acts.

Or, more recently, when right wing Israelis assassinated Rabin because he sought peace.

Israel's right wing is the problem. Right wings in any country never lead to anything good.

#107 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 10:29 AM | Reply

#105. Don't throw down a bag of apples and tell me they are oranges and think I'm going to believe you. Iraq 1 was a response to an ally being unjustly invaded. Iraqi 2 was based on incorrect and suspect information, but information that was at least tacitly supported by numerous countries besides us that showed they were engaged in serious violations of agreements, and Afghanistan was a response to a targeted attack on the US. Sadly, I know I've just derailed the conversation, because now you are going to side bar about Iraq 2 ad nauseum. Just know I won't respond to any of it. Keep it in THIS topic.

They aren't the same. Two sides petitioned to gain control from the British. One side was successful, the other pouted so hard they decided to go to war immediately before even knowing what the other side planned.

They both suck, but my only point is to quit making them out to be innocent martyrs when they are the ones that ignited this raging fire. They can't ignite the fire and then be all mad and yell about how it's burning them. They chose to light it! Israel wholly owns all of the gasoline they have poured on it. But the weren't the ones that struck the match.

#108 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 10:31 AM | Reply

107. I don't ignore that. It's just not relevant. The two sides petitioned. One was selected. That's zero hour ... a clean slate from British rule of the area to now Israel. That was the time for the Palestinians to wait and see what would happen. But they just couldn't. They had to go to war right meow!! But yet, they are the victims.

At this point they are all victims. But only one of them is holding them match that started it.

#109 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 10:34 AM | Reply

Terrorism is why the British left. Jewish terrorism. Not Palestinian terrorism.

I don't see any point in discussing this with you further.

Israel's right wing don't want peace, so they'll continue acting like thugs and thieves, perpetrating violence against Palestinians. If Israel treated Palestinians with respect, ended the occupations of what land they haven't stolen yet, and created a Palestinian state with the lands returned, there'd be a lot less animosity towards Israel from the Arab world. Which, IMO, is justified in light of the facts.

Hamas and Hezbollah aren't doing anything to Israel that Israel hasn't done to them ... or the Brits in the past.

#110 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 10:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's fine. I just find it difficult to believe you can't even acknowledge that the Arab Israeli war was a terrible and unnecessary response to the formation of the state, and sparked all of the mess that has followed. I really don't get it. It's like you think that war was somehow Israel's fault. It's so weird.

#111 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 10:49 AM | Reply

The host of BBC's Hard Talk is laying waste to Israel's UK ambassador. She's mouthing the typical right wing BS, and he's stating facts that destroy her arguments

Evictions of Israeli Arab citizens from neighborhoods in East Jerusalem by Jewish settlers, Israeli storm troopers opening fire at al Aqba, Netanyahu's claims all the tunnels in Gaza were destroyed in 2014, and on and on and on. She's obviously full of ----, and getting called out for it.

Israel's right wing government is engaging in apartheid.

#112 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-14 10:59 AM | Reply

The Israeli right has genocide In it's heart. This is Obvious to anyone not an Israeli apologist or worse. The wars in Iraq were based on LIES not "misinformation" you are obviously in cahoots with the killers in Israel morally if not physically. Your devotion to ethnic killers is sickening.

Why does religion always create monsters?

#113 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-05-14 11:44 AM | Reply

"I have no sympathy for the Palestinians in that moment back in the 40s."

You don't have any sympathy in 2021 either.

I'm not sure why you're so proud of that, or why you think your emotions are a good basis for thinking about things, but here we are.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 12:04 PM | Reply

Right. I said I have empathy. Not sympathy for the 2021 Palestinians. You do know there is a difference?

#115 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 12:10 PM | Reply

"I just find it difficult to believe you can't even acknowledge that the Arab Israeli war was a terrible and unnecessary response to the formation of the state"

"Unnecessary"

That's like saying the siege of Leningrad was unnecessary. Russia could have just let the Nazis take it.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 12:10 PM | Reply

"Right. I said I have empathy. Not sympathy for the 2021 Palestinians. You do know there is a difference?"

At this point, what difference does it make?

What makes you think your emotions is the way to decide what is right and wrong here?

Explain.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 12:11 PM | Reply

#116. Except the Russians opened and had control of their own city. The Palestinians never had control. 2 parties asked to supplant the British pull out. One lost. Not an excuse to go to war. Nothing was taken, something just was not given. Not the same thing at all. But nice try.

#118 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 12:21 PM | Reply

#117 I am but the one being emotional. In the Only one objectively looking at the origin of the violence. Everyone else wants to just stick their head in the sand and only look at what is happening now. But historical context is everything.

No one still has any answers about how the Palestinians didn't ignore this by immediately waging war without waiting to see what the change from one party ruling to a different party ruling.

And no response to the FACT that if they had waited to see what would happen, they would be much more firm in their position as victims and the Israelis as the villains.

#119 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 12:25 PM | Reply

That's like saying the siege of Leningrad was unnecessary. Russia could have just let the Nazis take it.

#116 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Siege of Leningrad?

#120 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 01:30 PM | Reply

It's difficult enough trying to have a serious argument with Snoofy without him just making ---- up out of thin air and then passionately arguing those made up facts as if critical to his position.

#121 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 01:34 PM | Reply

You think I'm making up the Siege of Leningrad?

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 01:35 PM | Reply

"In the Only one objectively looking at the origin of the violence"

Let's say you are.

How does objectively looking at the origin of the violence (which you subjectively have decided started in 1948) help our understanding of 2021?

Is the violence not a problem, or something?

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 01:38 PM | Reply

Yes. I do.

#124 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 01:39 PM | Reply

"And no response to the FACT that if they had waited to see what would happen"

The UN could have waited to see what happened too.
But they didn't, they went ahead, and gave their country to Zionists.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 01:40 PM | Reply

Yes. I do.
#124 | POSTED BY MODER8

Okay.
Moder8 is so committed to Zionism, he thinks I'm making up the Siege of Leningrad.
You have reached a new low, sir.

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 01:41 PM | Reply

125. Let me see if I have his right. The UN should have watched as the brits pulled out of the area and not named a successor to their rule. just let it turn into an even bigger cesspool of violence, and then combine that with no government. So also no sanitation, schools, road work, and the myriad of other things governments due to keep society functioning smoothly?

Yeah, that would CERTAINLY be the right answer.

That is also a new low for stupidity.

#127 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The UN partitioned Palestine between the Palestinians and the Zionists, who had been conducting a terrorist campaign to get the British and Palestinians out.
Then there was a war of militias, then in 1948 Israel declared itself a state and some Arab states joined the fight, and lost.

There was no peace that was broken by Arabs. The Zionists were planning to use violence to displace the Palestinians since at least 1938. The Zionists were the original terrorists. The Zionists won all the subsequent wars except 1975.

#128 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-14 02:05 PM | Reply

OK. I'm wrong. I hereby eat crow. Shame On Me. I acknowledge my error.

#129 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 02:07 PM | Reply

Siege of Leningrad?
#120 POSTED BY MODER8

You never heard of this?

Over 800 days.

From wiki:
"The US Military Academy evaluated that Russian casualties during the siege were bigger than combined American and British casualties during the entire war."

#130 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-05-14 02:09 PM | Reply

"125. Let me see if I have his right. The UN should have watched as the brits pulled out of the area and not named a successor to their rule."

Tell me what difference it makes, in 2021 -- aside from how it affects your feelings, of course!

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:20 PM | Reply

I acknowledge my error.
#129 | POSTED BY MODER8

How about you acknowledge your Zionism while you're at it.
And how it caused you to decide I was a liar, simply because of your unwavering commitment to the cause.

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:21 PM | Reply

Snoofy, read my comment #49. Take a moment to actually comprehend it. And then stfu.

#133 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 02:25 PM | Reply

I comprehend your #49 to tell us your reaction to ethnic cleansing by Zionists is to say you don't care.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:26 PM | Reply

Then you are as stupid as I have always perceived. While I may admit making an error of forgetting a fact, you are guilty of errors o simple comprehension. My condemnation of Netanyahoo and the current Israeli government is unambiguous. Stop being a troll.

#135 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 02:30 PM | Reply

"My condemnation of Netanyahoo and the current Israeli government is unambiguous."

Good. They're Nazis. Zionists are Nazis, just with a different logo. Same beliefs, same methods, different victims.

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:32 PM | Reply

131. Does it change the situation on the ground? No of course not. But perhaps people can stop calling the Palestinians poor victims when this is the path they started. My point is to counteract the vehement AI to Israel hate as the the arbiters of all things violent and bad ... when all it takes is a cursory look at history to know that assessment is false. I can totally acknowledge Israel negotiating in bad faith, completely isolating and violently crushing the Palestinians and committing atrocities against them. Can you admit that the Palestinians without any hesitation attacked the new nation of Israel while barely waiting for the ink to dry and learn what they planned to do?

You have NO basis to say the Israelis planned to violently displace all Muslims from the country. None. That is purely pulled from the crack of your behind. Why is it that so many Muslims live in Israel if they planned to violently displace them all?

What a ridiculous statement. But I guess I should expect that by now.

#137 | Posted by ABH at 2021-05-14 02:32 PM | Reply

Zionists call it Eretz Yisrael. Nazis called it Lebensraum. Same ----, different --------.

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:33 PM | Reply

"You have NO basis to say the Israelis planned to violently displace all Muslims from the country."

King David Hotel?

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:33 PM | Reply

"You have NO basis to say the Israelis planned to violently displace all Muslims from the country."

I don't think I actually said that, but what's your basis for saying they didn't?
Do you have, like, anything to support your claim?
???

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:34 PM | Reply

There you go again. Trolling. And like a sucker I take the bait and respond. Zionists are not Nazis no matter how much a troll like you insists on it. Believing that the nation of Israel has a right to exist is in no way, shape or form tantamount to 'being a Nazi'. The fact that Netanyahoo is a war criminal who belongs in prison does not change that fact.

#141 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-05-14 02:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Believing that the nation of Israel has a right to exist is in no way, shape or form tantamount to 'being a Nazi'."

Oh no. Someone said Zionists were LITERALLY NAZIS on the Internet.

Believing Israel has the right to exist From The River To The Sea has more in common with being a Nazi than you seem to be willing to admit.

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:55 PM | Reply

Tell you what Moder8.

I will stipulate the Zionists as "Pioneers" and equate their Ethnic Cleansing of the West Bank with America's Manifest Destiny, if that is an easier pill for you to swallow.

Trail of Tears for you on Line 2.

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 02:57 PM | Reply

The Inifada and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising both feature Jews. Just on different sides.

Or did I just make up the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, to try to prove a point?

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-14 03:00 PM | Reply

...because the Palestinians are just as guilty of terrorist activity as are the Israelis?
Just an observation.

#145 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-05-14 10:11 PM | Reply

"Zionists call it Eretz Yisrael. Nazis called it Lebensraum."

Cool.

What do the Muslims call it?

#146 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-15 08:23 AM | Reply

"That's like saying the siege of Leningrad was unnecessary. Russia could have just let the Nazis take it."

It probably was. It's port access was blocked by German forces in Konigsberg (now occupied by Russians in much the same way Jerusalem is occupied by the Israelis) so there was no value there.

Stalin, like Hitler, was terrible military commander. More concerned with symbolism and optics than with strategy.

#147 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-15 08:32 AM | Reply

"I will stipulate the Zionists as "Pioneers" and equate their Ethnic Cleansing of the West Bank with America's Manifest Destiny, if that is an easier pill for you to swallow."

That is a more reasonable comparison. The fact you didn't / don't see a significant difference between that and calling people an N-word shows the problem is with the pill pusher.

#148 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-05-15 02:48 PM | Reply

"Stalin, like Hitler, was terrible military commander. More concerned with symbolism and optics than with strategy."

Not to disagree, but the optics is the strategy. It's a Cult of Personality.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-15 02:55 PM | Reply

"What do the Muslims call it?"

Not sure. The Caliphate is my best guess though.

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-15 02:57 PM | Reply

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