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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 18, 2021

As Joe Biden and state lawmakers target millionaires and billionaires, wealth advisers are trying to help their clients adapt to the new rules.

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How many ordinary American families can afford tax advisors to help them avoid significant portions of their tax bills?

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-05-17 10:32 PM | Reply

Rich people pay taxes on profits, not income. There are lots of ways to reduce taxable profits.

#2 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-17 10:50 PM | Reply

@#2 ... Rich people pay taxes on profits, not income. ...

For starters, it is humorous that you think that that income class pays taxes as ordinary people do.

That aside...

Profits are income, in my view.

Capital gains are income, in my view.


So let's start there.

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-05-17 11:21 PM | Reply

Profits are net income, most salaried people pay taxes on gross income minus a few deductions.
It is very easy to reduce net income legally, trying to hide gross income will get you in trouble.

#4 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-18 02:29 AM | Reply

"Rich people pay taxes on profits, not income. There are lots of ways to reduce taxable profits."

Franklin D. Roosevelt understood that very well, he was a rich man. Giving raises in pay to your employees, buying new equipment, expanding your business were all encouraged by the tax rates pre-demon-Reagan. He killed the goose that lays the golden eggs so that the greediest could gain more wealth than they could ever spend. We had a great system that actually worked, Reagan destroyed it. I don't know if we'll ever get it back because the greedy rich value unnecessary selfishness above spreading the wealth a little more fairly among the rest of the population.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2021-05-18 10:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Wait wat!? inco cho's idea of taxing the rich to fund our inevitable national bankruptcy might not work?

#6 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-05-18 10:54 AM | Reply

#5,

How much of what I've earned are you entitled to?

And describe "fair". And saying someone with more money than you has to give more than you isnt "fair".

#7 | Posted by boaz at 2021-05-18 10:55 AM | Reply

Any lone person who can hire others to domnothing look for tax loopholes for a living has too much money in a society where people aren't paid enough for their labor.

#8 | Posted by Tor at 2021-05-18 10:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Tor,

You dont get to chose what's too much for someone in a free society.

#9 | Posted by boaz at 2021-05-18 10:59 AM | Reply

#8 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2021-05-18 10:55 AM | FLAG:

That's a funny way to look at it.

I think a more valid way is to say any tax code that needs an army of professionals to decode it is poorly designed.

#10 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-18 11:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I think a more valid way is to say any tax code that needs an army of professionals to decode it is poorly designed.

#10 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-18 11:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

Correct. The people with the army of tax professionals bribe the GOP to make the tax code as complicated as possible to a) make ordinary Americans resent it and b) write complicated tax laws to allow them to pay less in taxes than their employees. They then pay the pinheads on right wing media to sell the egregious lie that cutting taxes will create jobs. In my 35 years in business not once did I say...looky I got a tax cut, I am going to hire someone to sit and do nothing.

#11 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-05-18 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Wait wat!? inco cho's idea of taxing the rich to fund our inevitable national bankruptcy might not work?

#6 | Posted by phesterOBoyle

How did the trump cult fund their massive tax cuts?

#12 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-18 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How many ordinary American families can afford tax advisors to help them avoid significant portions of their tax bills?

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-05-17 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag

At $500 - $1000 per hour? Not many.

Drove by H&R Block last night on my way to the soccer park, saw people waiting outside at 8pm to get their taxes filed knowing that a $125 1040 in February is now $750 last night.

#13 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-05-18 12:05 PM | Reply

"Any lone person who can hire others to domnothing look for tax loopholes for a living has too much money in a society where people aren't paid enough for their labor."

Of course they are.

Or were, Before the government started paying them more to not work.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-18 02:26 PM | Reply

Or were, Before the government started paying them more to not work.

#14 | Posted by madbomber

You forgot "...in order to save millions of lives."

If the government would have been more aggressive with their rules and assistance, we couldve saved many more, but your cult leader was too busy lying to you about the pandemic for his own political benefit.

American lives were just expendables to be sacrificed on the alter of trump's ego.

#15 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-18 03:10 PM | Reply

"You forgot "...in order to save millions of lives."

Tens of millions, dude. If not hundreds of millions.

We're probably all here today because the government paid people not work...

...except those people, who the government paid to work.

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-18 03:38 PM | Reply

"If the government would have been more aggressive with their rules and assistance, we couldve saved many more, but your cult leader was too busy lying to you about the pandemic for his own political benefit."

"My" cult leader?

And who might that be?

And I've said from the very start, as in Spring 2020, that the government should have established strict quarantine zones for those who were at risk, or even just scared. Manned by activated NGB/reserve personnel, they could have ben keep completely isolated from the rest of the world.

Instead, the planetary leaders chose a half-assed method that may have spread the pain equally across unequal risk groups, but likely didn't do much to save lives.

You can blame Trump, but his response to COVID was one of the better on the planet. Here in Germany, they're still doubling down on stupid. As I've said before, the Germans knew they had lost WWII years before the Russians invaded Berlin. It was just too difficult to admit they were wrong and reverse course.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-18 03:42 PM | Reply

And I've said from the very start, as in Spring 2020, that the government should have established strict quarantine zones for those who were at risk, or even just scared. Manned by activated NGB/reserve personnel, they could have ben keep completely isolated from the rest of the world.

#17 | Posted by madbomber

Well then, from the start, you've been proving to everyone how ignorant you are about how pandemics work. Good thing no one listened to you.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-18 04:46 PM | Reply

"My" cult leader?

And who might that be?

#17 | Posted by madbomber

The sociopathic criminal con man ex president who is protected from justice and accountability by the people you vote for.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-05-18 04:47 PM | Reply

2 notions of patriotism in this country...

Those who pay their taxes, because they know the money goes to buy things for the country (roads, schools, hospitals, the Post Office, etc...). And those that bitch, whine, hide, obfuscate, feel entitled, and lie about their wealth.

The 1st class of people are called the Middle Class. The 2nd group of people are known as the rich...

#20 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-05-18 08:55 PM | Reply

Of course they are.

Or were, Before the government started paying them more to not work.

#14 | POSTED BY MYTHBUMMER

Trumplican Lies.

And you are one of the lying liars who tell them.

This lie has been debunked. Time to get a new lie. This excuse for not helping the middle class when they desperately need it is all tired and worn out.

www.cnbc.com

$600 unemployment booster isn't primary reason people do or do not work: Yale economists
Published Fri, Jul 31 202012:18 PM

Though there have been reports of some businesses unable to find employees because of the booster (i.e., potential hires were making more money on unemployment than they would working a particular job), a report from Yale economists published on July 14 found that the extra $600 is not the primary reason people are, or are not, working.

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-18 10:18 PM | Reply

Also. All Americans hunt for ways to avoid paying taxes.

So really just much ado about nothing. Again.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-18 10:20 PM | Reply

- You can blame Trump, but his response to COVID was one of the better on the planet.

More myths, same bummer.....

"A detailed timeline of all the ways Trump failed to respond to the coronavirus"

www.vox.com

"New research from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health details the U.S. government's egregious mishandling of the COVID-19 pandemic, identifies a powerful predictor of COVID-19 deaths, and suggests responses that could still alleviate the pandemic's damage.

The study's damning conclusion: "The evidence suggests that ineffective national policies and responses, especially as compared to those of other wealthy nations or compared to the intricate preparation and planning by previous administrations of both parties, have been driving the terrible toll of COVID-19 and its inequities in the U.S."

from those Commies at

fortune.com

Here's How Many COVID Deaths We Can Blame on Trump's Terrible Response
A new report says 40% of total COVID deaths could have been avoided.

Former President Donald Trump's response to the COVID-19 pandemic was a public health disaster. Now a new report in one of the world's most respected medical journals is attempting to quantify the human cost.

But perhaps most damning of all, the Lancet found that roughly 40 percent of the nation's COVID deaths"as many as 188,000 people out of nearly 470,000"could have been avoided, something that the researchers directly blame on Trump's pandemic response, or lack thereof.

"Even the best of countries have had deep problems with COVID, but we think there's substantial shortfall because of Trump," Dr. David Himmelstein, a primary care doctor, professor at the CUNY School of Public Health, and one of the report's lead authors, told VICE News.

www.vice.com

So there.

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2021-05-18 10:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"You can blame Trump, but his response to COVID was one of the better on the planet."

What response?

"No, I don't take responsibility at all."
-- President Donald J. TRUMP. March 13, 2020

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-18 10:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"You can blame Trump, but his response to COVID was one of the better on the planet."
What response?
"No, I don't take responsibility at all."
-- President Donald J. TRUMP. March 13, 2020
#24 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Fnkcin' mic drop, SNOOF.

#25 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-05-18 10:48 PM | Reply

We poor Americans do it, too.

#26 | Posted by jakester at 2021-05-18 11:33 PM | Reply

Any lone person who can hire others to domnothing look for tax loopholes for a living has too much money in a society where people aren't paid enough for their labor.

#8 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2021-05-18 10:55 AM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

Loophole is a silly libbie/dem term as these are IRS tax rules on the record that anyone who qualifies can use. So there you hater of successful people.peolpe whow are successful in life.

PS: [1] Who are you to determine who has 'to much' money? [2] what is the 'fair share' that you contribute to our taxes -- or are you maybe one oof the 48% who did not even pay Federal Income Taxes....?

#27 | Posted by MSgt at 2021-05-18 11:54 PM | Reply

- Loophole is a silly libbie/dem term as these are IRS tax rules

... that are bought and paid for by the very wealthy and corporate who write their own tax laws by owning their own politicians.

Which might be easier for you see if it weren't for that blinding Orange Light in your eyes.

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2021-05-19 12:15 AM | Reply

"A new report says 40% of total COVID deaths could have been avoided."

Actually, I would submit that every COVID death after April 1st could have been avoided. The government would have had ample time between 11 March and 01 April to fully mobilize the military, guard and reserves, outfit them with MOPP gear, and set them to work enforcing mandatory quarantines.

You prevent COVID deaths by preventing humans from interacting with each other.

Ben Franklin once said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." You're suggesting that the vast, overwhelming majority of humans give up essential liberty...not so much for their safety, but for the possible safety of a much smaller sliver of mankind. And it's sort of easy for you to say that...you've never lived under actual lock-down conditions. Not like what happened in much of the rest of the world.

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-19 04:46 AM | Reply

#27

Progressives are like that. With money, if everyone can't be rich, then no one should be allowed to.

With COVID, if everyone can't safely go to restaurants or theaters, then no one should be allowed to.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-19 04:47 AM | Reply

Madbomber a/k/a Herman Cain and lots of other morons who feel their ideology will protect them from a virus but who were then proven wrong when their arrogant stupidity did not protect them. His comment about sacrificing liberty for safety works fine until you try to put a virus in as the threat and unfortunately, some smalL sacrifices in "liberty" are sometimes necessary when we are combatting a worldwide pandemic.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2021-05-19 07:41 AM | Reply

"Progressives are like that. With money, if everyone can't be rich, then no one should be allowed to."

More Trumptilian lies.

You are just chock full of Trumptilian lies aren't you?

Progressives believe the rich just have more responsibility than the poor to support the society they got rich in.

The poor help the rich by working for them and consuming their products.

The wealthy have a responsibility to help the poor by providing safe products and social safety nets and opportunities to also get "rich" instead of creating walls and obstacles like tax laws that favor and protect the wealth of the wealthy.

The wealthy are not doing a very good job lately and are shirking their responsibilities.

Sometimes you have you help the people to do the right things.

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-19 10:49 AM | Reply

- a little temporary Safety,

So that's what 3/4's of a million dead 'Mericans represent. Who'd a thunk it?

Of course, he had not counter for the facts about Trump's incompetence, which destroys his stupid claim.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2021-05-19 10:58 AM | Reply

-The wealthy have a responsibility to help the poor..."

Do they? I'm sure most feel they do have that responsibility and also feel they DO help the poor.

But according to you they're not. They're "shirking their responsibilities".

So, what do you think the wealthy should do they aren't currently?

I love it when someone lectures me on how I'm not doing enough for others.

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2021-05-19 11:11 AM | Reply

In CA my production music library was taxes out of existence since the industry was on the way out ...

In Nola my real estate company pays 4 percent . There's really no point to try and find a way around it. I tell everybody I'd pay more if they'd fix the damn potholes ...

#35 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-05-19 12:12 PM | Reply

I love it when someone lectures me on how I'm not doing enough for others.

#34 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2021-05-19 11:11 AM | REPLY: There are always some who want to tell others what they should or should not do, especially if they personally have no skin in the game.

#36 | Posted by MSgt at 2021-05-19 01:22 PM | Reply

"Madbomber a/k/a Herman Cain and lots of other morons who feel their ideology will protect them from a virus but who were then proven wrong when their arrogant stupidity did not protect them."

Ideolology?

That's doesn't protect anyone.

The only thing I have going for me is math, and statistically me and pretty much everyone else I know don't have much to fear from COVID. In fact if I were to be scared of something, it would be the seasonal flu. My kids are about twice as likely to die from that as they are to die from COVID.

And they're far more likely to die in a car accident.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-19 01:41 PM | Reply

"Progressives believe the rich just have more responsibility than the poor to support the society they got rich in."

Does more responsibility come with more priviledge, or should we just treat success as a burden that the best among us have no choice but to bear?

And did you ever consider what would happen if the rich decided they were no longer willing to pay our bills?

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-19 01:44 PM | Reply

"Do they? I'm sure most feel they do have that responsibility and also feel they DO help the poor."

Yup.

The top 1% pays about 37% of federal income taxes. The top 5% pays around 58%.

They're not just paying their fair share. And the poor's fair share. They're paying lot's of people's fair share.

I can only assume that the average progressive feels that those who underperform in life should have no obligation to the society that funds them.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-19 01:49 PM | Reply

- don't have much to fear from COVID

Oh, that's right... it's only all about you. Randian, right. Now I remember.

#39

Little von Mises Bomber "thinks" crony capitalism is a pure meritocracy... isn't that cute!

It's more like a poker game where one person has a billion dollar stake and the rest have a hundred dollar stake... plus the billionaire gets to own the rule book and change it as necessary. Guess who's going to win that pot every time?

Progressive taxation makes the game a little more fair, but hundreds of the biggest corps pay no income tax at all, and thousands of the 1 percent do the same.... because they own enough politicians to write the rules.

Well, and of course because comparatively poor, dumb rwingers like you, who they wouldn't bother to piss on if you were on fire, look up to them as gods.

Surely you mom explained this to you...

#40 | Posted by Corky at 2021-05-19 03:22 PM | Reply

Correct. The people with the army of tax professionals bribe the GOP to make the tax code as complicated as possible
#11 | POSTED BY NIXON AT 2021-05-18 11:58 AM | FLAG:

Right now they're bribing Democrats. We The People have the army of tax professionals, it comes in the form of TurboTax via the Free Filing program. The IRS, regardless of administration, has worked very closely with Intuit for a long time. The intent of the Free Filing was to provide support for small tax processing companies that setup in mostly low to mid income areas. It became that (and led to the RAL fraud), but it also became the TurboTax that majority of citizens use to pay taxes.

Currently afaik only Warren is pushing a Tax Simplification bill that will send completed returns to most Americans. It doesn't simplify taxes but it will probably save most people $30 or so.

#41 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-20 08:38 AM | Reply

"Oh, that's right... it's only all about you. Randian, right. Now I remember."

No...it's about you too.

Not being you, I can't conduct an accurate risk assessment for you anymore than you can do so for me. Which is why we should both assess risk based on our own individual concerns and respond accordingly.

For example, if I decide that interacting with other humans is worth risking exposure to COVID, then I interact with other humans.

If you decide that interacting with other humans isn't worth the cost of risking exposure to COVID, then you don't interact with other humans. Or at the least you limit it to those few humans that you feel you must interact with in order to stay alive. But that's going to be a sliding scale that only you can determine.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-20 03:54 PM | Reply

"It's more like a poker game where one person has a billion dollar stake and the rest have a hundred dollar stake... plus the billionaire gets to own the rule book and change it as necessary. Guess who's going to win that pot every time?"

Hmm.

I never had much of a stake...certainly not billions. But I've done OK for myself.

Or should I be pissed of that, since someone else is a billionaire, it's unfair if I can't be one as well.

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-20 03:55 PM | Reply

"Progressive taxation makes the game a little more fair, but hundreds of the biggest corps pay no income tax at all, and thousands of the 1 percent do the same.... because they own enough politicians to write the rules."

So...my take away from this is that the vast majority of those in the 1% who are paying everyone else's taxes should be irritated with those in the 1% who aren't?

I mean, if you're in the bottom 50%, none of this matters to you. What matters is that someone else is paying your taxes. Who is paying them is a fight between those within the top 1%, or so it would seem to me.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-20 03:57 PM | Reply

"Well, and of course because comparatively poor, dumb rwingers like you, who they wouldn't bother to piss on if you were on fire, look up to them as gods."

Interesting?

Do you think it's because I'm not jealous of those who make more money than me? That I don't hold it against them or think that they have gotten rich by stealing money that should have gone to me.

And "gods" is a bit strong. But I am thankful for them.

if not for them, my tax rates would be MUCH higher.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-20 03:59 PM | Reply

"if not for them, my tax rates would be MUCH higher."

What are you talking about?

If not for them, your income would be even higher than your increase in taxes.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:12 PM | Reply

"I mean, if you're in the bottom 50%, none of this matters to you."

We're all in the top 1%, according to you.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:13 PM | Reply

"Not being you, I can't conduct an accurate risk assessment for you anymore than you can do so for me."

So you deny the validity of actuaries.
Well, they're right and you're wrong.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:15 PM | Reply

"If not for them, your income would be even higher than your increase in taxes."

Really?

How would eliminating the top 1% of income earners make the value of my labor more than what it currently is?

An even better question would be, how would eliminating the top 1% of income earner make the labor value of the bottom 1% more than what it currently is? It's not like their skillsets have changed.

It's like saying that by killing off LeBron James, I'd somehow become a star basketball player worthy of a multimillion dollar contract.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-21 01:22 AM | Reply

"We're all in the top 1%, according to you."

Not all.

Only those earning more than $34k per year.

So those Americans that are getting their COVID paychecks from the government are still only in the top 2% of worldwide income earners.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-21 01:23 AM | Reply

But that's still pretty good. Being in the top 2% without having to lift a finger.

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-21 01:24 AM | Reply

But that's still pretty good. Being in the top 2% without having to lift a finger.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-05-21 01:24 AM | Reply

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