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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 18, 2021

A few weeks after his arrest for allegedly storming the Capitol on Jan. 6, the man known as the "QAnon Shaman," Jacob Chansley, floated an idea that dozens of others have tried -- that Trump himself deserved some of the blame for his actions.

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Watkins, the "Q Shaman" Jacob Chansley's attorney, said his client had Asperger's syndrome and indicated that Chansley's mental state " and the impact of Trump's "propaganda" efforts " would play a role in his case. "A lot of these defendants " and I'm going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully " but they're all ------- short-bus people," Watkins told TPM. "These are people with brain damage, they're ------- retarded, they're on the goddamn spectrum."

Interesting defense of the cancervative filth who attacked D.C. on 1-6-21.

#1 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-05-18 10:58 AM | Reply

So? Retarded people get executed all the time.

#2 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-05-18 01:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They're criminals because of Trump. We get it.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2021-05-18 04:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

By extension then not all ------- voted, but those that did voted for Donnie Fail. Perhaps we need an IQ test to vote.

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-05-18 05:01 PM | Reply

Gentlemen, "retarded" is a slur.

#5 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-05-18 05:22 PM | Reply

Get those insurrectionists on video blaming Trump. Make a montage. Play it on loop outside every GOP meeting.

#6 | Posted by bored at 2021-05-18 05:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For being the party of personal responsibility, these MAGA-dorks are certainly doing a lot of ducking and diving. They stood proudly behind their orange oaf, and permitted themselves to be egged on by a guy who was safely behind walls, fences and Secret Service agents. Now that putsch has come to shove these criminal terrorists want to be let off the hook because they were only following orders. Let them all loose--chained together in groups of 5, in the middle of the desert, only 50 miles from potable water. May the best man win...

#7 | Posted by catdog at 2021-05-18 06:23 PM | Reply

That idiot should go to prison and they should make him wear that silly outfit while he's in there.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-18 07:05 PM | Reply

What a twist.

If they manage to successfully use the "Trump defense", will they get a lighter sentence? How will that work?

If they don't pull off using the "Trump defense" and are found fully accountable, will that exonerate Trump?

#9 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 07:54 PM | Reply

^You tell us, Bill.

What answer will make Trump look blameless for purposefully lying?

#10 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-18 08:26 PM | Reply

What a twist.
If they manage to successfully use the "Trump defense", will they get a lighter sentence? How will that work?
If they don't pull off using the "Trump defense" and are found fully accountable, will that exonerate Trump?

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-18 07:54 PM | REPLY

Trump is absolutely guilty of being an insurectionist. Your continued support for Trump makes you one as well.

#11 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-18 08:43 PM | Reply

"If they don't pull off using the "Trump defense" and are found fully accountable, will that exonerate Trump?"

I'm not a lawyer, but could they be found fully accountable and Trump as well as a co-conspirator?

#12 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-18 08:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BTW Charles Manson never physically killed anyone yet he is still a murderer because he was part of a conspiracy to commit murder. That makes Trump an insurrectionist by default.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-18 08:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Gal,

The whole "overthrow the government" thing I read sounds pretty silly.

Come on...overthrow the government? Maybe they thought stealing Nancy's gavel would give them the power.

Personally, one of my favorite images of the "riots" was men walking between the ropes like they were on a tour.

I know things got serious and I'm not making light.

However, I don't think everyone who went in were on the same page or perhaps even realized at the time how bad things had gotten.

I don't know enough details about the day but the idea they thought they would overthrow the government (I mean..really overthrow the government) sounds pretty far fetched.

Don't bother with links.

I get bored with people who link and don't write.

#14 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:00 PM | Reply

Laura,

Personally, I've not convinced yet Trump intended on people breaking into the Capitol.

Sorry.

Sure...it was pretty well planned...I'll agree to that.

I want to see how this plays out in court before I pass judgement.

#15 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

I know things got serious and I'm not making light.

Oh, you most certainly are.

Sure...it was pretty well planned...I'll agree to that.

Ok... you're starting get a grasp.

#16 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-18 09:08 PM | Reply

Laura,

Trump likely intended on marching and making themselves known...but breaking in?

I'm not convinced Trump was wanting anything quite like that.

#17 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:08 PM | Reply

Personally, I've not convinced yet Trump intended on people breaking into the Capitol.
Sorry.
Sure...it was pretty well planned...I'll agree to that.
I want to see how this plays out in court before I pass judgement.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-18 09:04 PM | REPLY

You're an intellectually dishonest partisan hackjob. Trump absolutely intended for his followers to storm the capitol to overturn the election results. Trump committed an insurrection and you're making excuses for it.

#18 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-18 09:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 9

"I'm not convinced Trump was wanting anything quite like that."

He said they had to fight like hell to take their country back.
Naturally, you don't think he wanted them to fight like hell to take their country back.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-18 09:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

Laura,

Some of those people I would say are probably mentally ill and not because they are conservative.

I mean...personally I wonder about anyone who is fanatical to an extreme...be it conservative or liberal.

#20 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:13 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

Fight doesn't always mean physical.

That's all I will say to you.

#21 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:14 PM | Reply

Laura,

Of course you believe Trump was instigating murder and mayhem.

That's who you are.

I don't believe someone who is wanting to be the next president would really want things to play out like they did.

Yea...anger...marching...but breaking in??

Like I said...I'll leave that up to the courts to prove to me.

#22 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:17 PM | Reply

Trump Was Pleased as Mob Stormed Capitol

President Trump was "pleased" as hordes of his supporters first stormed the Capitol Building on Wednesday, and he ignored pleas from his aides to step in and defuse the situation, The New York Times reports. Several advisers are said to have frantically tried to convince him to take action, to no avail. As the full fallout of the coup attempt became clear late Thursday--with four people confirmed dead and a Capitol Police officer on life support--Trump released a video in which he finally condemned the violence and acknowledged that his presidency was ending (albeit while clearly reading from a script). But even that two-and-a-half-minute video came not after Trump realized the scope of the damage of the riots but after he realized he could personally face legal trouble, according to the Times. He is said to have initially been against making the video and agreed to it only after it became clear that prosecutors intended to scrutinize his comments to supporters before the coup.


www.thedailybeast.com

#23 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-18 09:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Of course you believe Trump was instigating murder and mayhem.
That's who you are.
I don't believe someone who is wanting to be the next president would really want things to play out like they did.
Yea...anger...marching...but breaking in??
Like I said...I'll leave that up to the courts to prove to me.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-18 09:17 PM | REPLY

Yes that's who I am because that's exactly what happened. You won't admit the truth because you're a Trumper til the end.

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-18 09:27 PM | Reply

Trump wasn't in the least upset that the insurrectionists were breaking into the Capitol:

McCarthy pleaded with Trump to call off the insurrection in explosive phone call: 'Who the f--- do you think you are talking to?'

According to a new report from CNN, former President Donald Trump and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy had a testy phone call on January 6 as rioters overtook the Capitol.

During the call, McCarthy pleaded for Trump to call off the mob, describing to him that rioters were breaking through his office's windows. According to CNN, McCarthy told Trump that his supporters were leading the charge.

"Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are," Trump said, according to lawmakers who told CNN that they were briefed on the call by McCarthy.


www.businessinsider.com

He saw their actions as a sign that they supported him, were angry at what they thought was extensive voter fraud and demonstrated they were great patriots. The insurrectionists and their buddies in Congress didn't reference 1776 on 1/6 for no reason.

#25 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-18 09:30 PM | Reply

"Don't bother with links.
I get bored with people who link and don't write."

You mean be like you? LOL Nah, I get bored with people who write and don't link to substantiate their thoughts and conclusion.

#26 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-18 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"Like I said...I'll leave that up to the courts to prove to me."

You mean like they proved to you there wasn't extensive voter fraud in the 2020 election?

#27 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-18 09:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Anyone else lost track of the number of times court cases have proven that Joe Biden won the election and that Donald Trump lost?

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2021-05-18 10:02 PM | Reply

"Fight doesn't always mean physical."

You, like Trump, hide behind ambiguity and innuendo.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-18 10:22 PM | Reply

------- screamed for months that the election would be and was stolen from him. He said he won by a landslide. He tried numerous times to overturn results-failed miserably every single time.

On Jan. 6 he saw his last opportunity-stop the ceremonial counting of the certified votes.

His followers took him at his word and stormed the Capitol, yes stormed is the right word. The relatively low body count was because the police reacted with restraint-no tear gas, no rubber bullets. The insurrectionist's goal was to stop the certification-THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF INSURRECTION-TO STOP THE PROPER AND LEGAL TRANSFER OF POWER. The details of the day make it very clear-who they were targeting, the coordination between qnon republican representatives and the invaders.

Just because the insurrectionists were incredibly stupid and nave and failed miserably in their attempt does not make it any less insurrection.

------- LITERALLY, sent his own private army to overturn the election to kill representatives, senators and his own VP. ---- he has yet to truly condemn the insurrectionist's actions.

#30 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-05-18 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Bill Johnson is a damn fool. Just take a crap instead of posting, it means the same thing.

#31 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-05-18 11:23 PM | Reply

Here's the genesis of the defense:

"Asperger syndrome is a condition on the autism spectrum, with generally higher functioning.
People with this condition may be socially awkward and have an all-absorbing interest in specific topics."

Yeah, sure. All thousands of them.

All they need is a little social training. Prison has a way of taking care of that.

#32 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-05-19 12:45 AM | Reply

"I don't think everyone who went in were on the same page or perhaps even realized at the time how bad things had gotten."

Shouldn't the first smashed window be a hint?

#33 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 02:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

DANFORTH

"Shouldn't the first smashed window be a hint?"

You'd think.

From what I saw, Trump had worked them up to a frenzied, full-blown pack mentality out for the kill, long before the first window was cracked. He was the enabler and responsible for every violent thing that happened that day from beginning to end. Yes, even the murders.

#34 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-05-19 04:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump gave them what they yearned for: permission.

#35 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-05-19 04:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Gal,

"You mean like they proved to you there wasn't extensive voter fraud in the 2020 election?"

You are a major disappointment.

Try reading my posts before commenting on them

#36 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 08:17 AM | Reply

Bill, why not just answer the question:

"You mean like they proved to you there wasn't extensive voter fraud in the 2020 election?"

A simple yes or no will suffice.

#37 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 08:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Trump gave them what they yearned for: permission."

Not just permission but a grand justification: They are great patriots!

#38 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 08:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Gal,

I was posting about the dangers of mail-in ballots before the election.

You just link but do not comment on any of the points I make.

You just regurgitate what other people are saying.

#39 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 08:33 AM | Reply

I offer you facts from various sources rather than merely offering my opinion, but you don't care about facts because you value your own opinion so highly. Okay, fair enough. So, tell me, in your opinion, did Biden win the election fairly and squarely or is Trump right in saying it was stolen from him?

#40 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 08:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Gal,

The points I make are not specifically related to this election but are broader in nature.

Regarding your supposed "proof". I don't believe you can adequately prove a negative without a more thorough audit.

They haven't proved there was extensive fraud but that is not the same as saying they have proved there wasn't.

#41 | Posted by Billjohnson at 2021-05-19 08:53 AM | Reply

Bill J, those 'other people' included every one of the Judges (Some were Trump appointees) who threw each and every Voter Fraud Cases into the krapper.

You do believe what the all the Courts have ruled, right?

Cause, you know, "waiting for the Courts " is a Bool Carp senile delay tactic, if you refuse to accept the Court rulings thus far.

#42 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-05-19 09:04 AM | Reply

" I'm not convinced Trump was wanting anything quite like that."

Trump's reaction, or in this case lack of, speaks much louder than your gut. Anyone "not wanting" something like that would've leaped at the first opportunity to quell it.

But he wasn't appalled. He thanked them, called them "patriots", and said he loved them.

How did Trump react in YOUR world?

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" They haven't proved there was extensive fraud but that is not the same as saying they have proved there wasn't.

That's like saying you're sure magical unicorns exist, because there's never been any proof to date.

#44 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:09 AM | Reply

Bill, If it wasnt proven to happen in Court, then it legally didnt happen, and no relief can be granted for Plaintiff.

Thats the way the whole legal "Proof Required" thingy works.

Are you new to this concept?

#45 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-05-19 09:09 AM | Reply

" I was posting about the dangers of mail-in ballots before the election. "

And you had no proof then, either. Have you found any in the interim?

#46 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:09 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"They haven't proved there was extensive fraud but that is not the same as saying they have proved there wasn't."

Yes, "they" have proved there wasn't extensive voter fraud, but, yes, I know in your opinion "they" haven't.

This was my original question, that Bill refuses to answer:

"You do believe what the all the Courts have ruled, right?"

#47 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 09:11 AM | Reply

" I don't believe you can adequately prove a negative without a more thorough audit."

Why weren't the first three counts, agreeing with each other, not enough?

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I was posting about the dangers of mail-in ballots before the election.

#39 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Others were posting about the danger of Rats from Space.

#49 | Posted by Zed at 2021-05-19 09:22 AM | Reply

Bill Johnson, in the face waves of posts based on law and reality based logic, has become a little tired now, he seems to have decided to take a nap.

Ah, Bill, to sleep, perchance to dream...about the glorious Cheeto Jeebus.

#50 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-05-19 09:27 AM | Reply

Gal,

In a court of law they must prove guilt otherwise they are treated as innocent.

But that doesn't prove they are actually innocent.

The points I brought out about mail-in ballots make it actually impossible to adequately prove a negative.

Impossible.

In the realm of voting a margin of error acceptable in other environments are not acceptable in voting.

#51 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 09:32 AM | Reply

" In a court of law they must prove guilt otherwise they are treated as innocent."

In a court of law you can't pretend something exists for which you have no proof. You can't say there's been voter fraud without the thinnest shred of evidence; not inside of a courtroom, not unless you expect to be disbarred or sanctioned.

60 attempts, zero proof.

Tell us: why have a folks who look for this stuff for a living, not been able to find any of it?

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" The points I brought out about mail-in ballots make it actually impossible to adequately prove a negative. Impossible."

Just admit it Bill: the only recount you'll accept is one with a different result. Until Trump wins, in your mind there just haven't been enough audits, or the ones being done just weren't thorough enough. Do you realize how stupid that sounds when said out loud?

#53 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" In the realm of voting a margin of error acceptable in other environments are not acceptable in voting."

Total nonsense. The majority of the states wouldn't be affected in their presidential elections, even with vast amounts of fraud. Stealing 100 votes in California would be the largest, most massive voter fraud ever, and it would have all the effect of a fart in a windstorm.

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-19 09:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Bill Johnson would make a great shovel. I've never come across someone who digs himself into holes so well.

#55 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-19 10:30 AM | Reply

Snoofy,

Fight doesn't always mean physical.

That's all I will say to you.

#21 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-18 09:14 PM | Reply | Fla

But FIGHT does mean physical in most instances.

The totality of the day indicates he intended what happened to happen.

He was constantly telling the MAGAts that the elections was stolen from them.

His stooges all used words to provoke violence....

"Two of the speakers were current members of the House of Representatives: Mo Brooks and Madison Cawthorn, the former telling the crowd to "start taking down names and kicking ass" and the latter urging them to hold members of Congress "accountable" if they didn't try to overturn the election."

"Don Jr. said, "You have an opportunity today: You can be a hero, or you can be a zero. And the choice is yours but we are all watching.""

Rudy Colludy told the crowd we need "trial by combat".

Fatty told them himself "Something is wrong her. Somethings really wrong. Can't have happened. And we fight. We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."

Then as the crowd broke down barricades, he was giddy with joy watching the violence and mayhem. People around him were upset and he was confused why people were upset about it. He got what he wanted. He wanted the attack. He parsed his words to get the rubes to say just what you said... "Fight doesn't always mean physical".

Trumps own tweets indicate he wanted this... "These are the things and events that happened when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long," Trump wrote in the tweet. "Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!"

#56 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-05-19 11:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Gal,

What I'm talking about might not even come under "extensive fraud".

I have said repeatedly I believe the margin of error is critically important due to close elections.

Negligence, human error and failure in transporting uncounted ballots could affect the election results.

Much less fraud which is also a wild card.

Voting in person within a month is fair and more dependable.

#57 | Posted by Billjohnson at 2021-05-19 11:33 AM | Reply

"We fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore"

What in tarnation are you talking about? It is perfectly obvious that Trump, by using the words "fight like hell", expected his legions of dedicated followers to go over to Dupont circle, rent a hotel room, get in bed with a female Asian performance artist, call in the media, pick up a guitar, and start singing "Give POTUS a Chance"

#58 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-19 11:33 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Like I said...I'll leave that up to the courts to prove to me."

I don't believe you. If you truly believe it should be decided in court then why do you vote for people who will make sure it never reaches a court?

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-19 11:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It used to be "The Devil Made Me Do It!"

That has now been officially replaced with "Trump made me do it!"

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-05-19 12:23 PM | Reply

@#52 ... 60 attempts, zero proof. ...

That particular fact seems to be ignored by the billjohnson alias' comments.

There were attempts to prove election fraud.

All were thrown out of court or dismissed for lack of evidence, up to and including the US Supreme Court. At times, laughed out of court by a devastating opinion and ruling by the judge.

Now we have a bogus "audit" in Arizona that looks so badly that it is ridiculed by some in the Arizona GOP.

#61 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-05-19 01:26 PM | Reply

"Trump made me do it!"

So why'd you vote for Trump?

Uhhh... let's see...
Hillary made me do it!

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-19 01:29 PM | Reply

Lamp,

Audits at this point may be pointless.

An old computer adage is "garbage in garbage out".

I don't know if they are counting corrupted data but if they suspect there is problems you may well be right that it's s waste of time and will prove nothing.

#63 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 03:04 PM | Reply

Lamp,

"Lack of evidence"

That is exactly what I was inferring earlier when I said auditing might even be impossible if errors of omission occured.

Again..lack of evidence does not imply there is none or that something never happened.

#64 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 03:14 PM | Reply

Again..lack of evidence does not imply there is none or that something never happened.

#64 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Like Godzilla rising from your bathtub?

#65 | Posted by Zed at 2021-05-19 03:48 PM | Reply

I'm not a lawyer, but could they be found fully accountable and Trump as well as a co-conspirator?

#12 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

BTW Charles Manson never physically killed anyone yet he is still a murderer because he was part of a conspiracy to commit murder. That makes Trump an insurrectionist by default.

#13 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

18 USC 371 - Conspiracy to commit offense or defraud the U.S.
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both....
www.law.cornell.edu

Charging conspiracy requires two elements. 1) an agreement between two or more persons to commit an offense, 2) an overt act by at least one in furtherance of the agreement. For example, if Johnny and Charlie got together and agreed they should break into a house, they haven't yet committed an offence. When Johnny goes to the hardware store and buys a wrecking bar to pry the door open, they have both now committed conspiracy. Also a good example of Charles Manson by Laura. The problem with charging conspiracy, on the part of Trump, in the case of the 1/6 riots/insurrection is proving there was an agreement between Trump and his followers. That's a pretty high prosecutorial bar.

18 USC 2383 - Rebellion or Insurrection, is also a very high prosecutorial bar. www.law.cornell.edu

I still believe 18 USC 2101(a)(1) Incite a Riot is the proper charge regarding Trump, Don Jr, and Rudy. www.law.cornell.edu

Among all the followers, there could be myriad lesser conspiracies within each group. As well as riot charges, trespass charges, assault charges, attempted murder, etc. It will take an army of investigators and prosecutors to sort it out.

#66 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2021-05-19 04:19 PM | Reply

I was posting about the dangers of mail-in ballots before the election.
#39 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

You mean the made up dangers of mail-in ballots?

You've yet to account for how your made up dangers haven't toppled the voting systems in states like CO that have been doing it for years.

#67 | Posted by jpw at 2021-05-19 04:39 PM | Reply

I was posting about the dangers of mail-in ballots before the election.

#39 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Georgia has had 'no excuse needed' mail-in voting since 2005.

Only after Republicans lost an election did it suddenly become a 'problem.'

"Republican" is now synonymous with "hypocrite" and "traitorous."

#68 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-05-19 06:59 PM | Reply

Jpw,

How has CO proven their mail-in ballots are all there?

I would be curious exactly what steps they went through to verify the count.

#69 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-19 10:04 PM | Reply

#69 Could there be a way you say "Okay, I guess it's secure after all?"

I don't see the point in talking about this if you can't be convinced.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-19 10:18 PM | Reply

"The problem with charging conspiracy, on the part of Trump, in the case of the 1/6 riots/insurrection is proving there was an agreement between Trump and his followers. That's a pretty high prosecutorial bar."

Would this statement by Trump qualify as an agreement?:

"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy," he said. "And after this, we're going to walk down " and I'll be there with you " we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women."

The president's pledge to join the marchers was greeted with cheers. However, according to the press pool report sent following the rally, he actually went back to the White House in his motorcade.

www.businessinsider.com

#71 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 10:29 PM | Reply

Trump meant "we" in the sense of "all you other people."

And "I'll be there with you" in spirit.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-19 10:32 PM | Reply

Sorry, this should read (I hate the way dashes sometimes get turned into quotation marks!):

"Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy," he said. "And after this, we're going to walk down--and I'll be there with you--we're going to walk down ... to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women."

#73 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-19 10:36 PM | Reply

"Again..lack of evidence does not imply there is none or that something never happened."

Nonsense. Lack of evidence OF ANYTHING MORE THAN A FART IN A WINDSTORM in systems which have been doing it for a quarter-century, or in the case of the military over 150 years ABSOLUTELY DOES IMPLY that voter fraud OF ANY SUBSTANCE never happened.

Yes, the occasional kook will vote in his dead mother's name. Wives will bully their closeted husbands and vote for liberals against their husband's will. Why, some deranged MAGAt may even go so far as to murder their wife, and cast another vote for Trump...but if you're going to pretend that's substantial fraud, you're bearing false witness.

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-20 04:29 AM | Reply

Real Trump Defense: NOT. MY. FAULT.
GQP, party of personal responsibility.
What a bunch of quaking cowards.

#75 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-05-20 07:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is there a correlation between a Blame Trump defense and having a public defender? No way that's going to work lol.

#76 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-05-20 07:55 AM | Reply

It used to be "The Devil Made Me Do It!"
That has now been officially replaced with "Trump made me do it!"
#60 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Donner, it's the same thing.

#77 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-05-20 09:05 AM | Reply

Mail in voting was never a problem until this election. States have been doing it for awhile and results were accepted and respected. Only now when some of our officials are yelling "we were cheated" is this a problem. Republican states are working on getting rid of this perfectly legal way of voting billjohnson and also making it harder to vote at all, even in person. Why are polling stations being closed down if they want more in person voting? Why can't I give a bottle of water to people who have been standing in line for 3 hours? There are many questions about in person voting. Are you willing to address the ones that seem to be suppressing the vote for your party or are you only interested in working for your own interests?

#78 | Posted by rukiddin at 2021-05-20 09:08 AM | Reply

I don't think anyone reasonable has ever claimed there is zero fraud. Of course there will always be a few cases here and there, as DANFORTH mentioned. There can be counting mistakes. Recounts rarely come up with the same number twice. The question is, are fraud and counting errors statistically significant to alter the outcome? And so far court after court after court..., has said no.

And while the statement "Again..lack of evidence does not imply there is none or that something never happened.", is true, if fraud were as widespread as claimed, given the plethora of investigations, recounts, voting machine inspections, court cases, etc., shouldn't some evidence have been found by now?

#79 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2021-05-20 09:39 AM | Reply

Ruk,

"Mail in voting was never a problem until this election"

Here's the problem.

How do you know there wasn't inaccuracies until this election?

How often do problems actually exist but they continue until someone questions it?

The thing is this election there was electorial votes that could literally determine who won.

Again... How can really say there wasn't any problems? Just because there was no need to count with extreme accuracy which ended up bringing up a lot of questions can you say there were no problems.

Are you saying because there was no political problems regarding the count that means it was actually correct?

#80 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 09:46 AM | Reply

If people have to request a ballot, then their vote can be tied to information already recorded and you have something to compare against.

But letting people indescriminately mail in their vote, there is more chaos and much harder, if even possible, to determine the validity of every single ballot and verify every person who mailed a ballot actually was counted.

Entirely too much human interaction would be required by people many of who will not always be trained and overworked.

Auditing without some idea what you are expecting is impossible.

How do you know if you have all the ballots if you don't have anything to base it on?

#81 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 10:02 AM | Reply

#71 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

I completely agree with you. I fully believe Trump intended for that crowd of thousands to march on the Capitol. He intended for them, once there, to bully, threaten, cow, or otherwise influence Congress to not certify the electoral college votes. He intended, by any means necessary, to retain power regardless of the will of the people.

What I was trying to illustrate in #66 was that proving both elements of Conspiracy, on the part of Trump, would be very difficult. There must be an agreement with specific intent to commit a crime, followed by an overt act in furtherance of that agreement. No doubt there was at least one overt act. I can see many paths to a defense revolving around contrasting a political speech and call to action vs. an agreement to commit a specific crime. Very similar headwinds with Incite to Riot or Insurrection, although I think the elements of Incite to Riot would be easier to prove. The Roberts Court's record on cases involving political speech further convince me a prosecution for Conspiracy would not result in a sustained conviction.

I think the best prosecutorial strategy is do what they have been doing. Thoroughly investigate, examine evidence, identify every rioter/insurrectionist, prosecute them accordingly, and push for as much jail time as possible. Send a clear message to every person who might think to try something similar in the future.

#82 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2021-05-20 10:09 AM | Reply

Considering we have early voting that gives everyone ample time to vote and is fair, why should we set ourselves up with a chaotic voting system that creates so many issues.

Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.

I am done on this thread.

#83 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 10:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Never go against billjohnson when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

#84 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-20 10:21 AM | Reply

Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.

I am done on this thread.

#83 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Good thing you're not coming back, Bill, because this is exceptionally brain-dead.

#85 | Posted by Zed at 2021-05-20 10:24 AM | Reply

In other words Trumptards never read the story of Henny Penny.

-Eric "Otter" Stratton (damn glad to meet ya)

#86 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-20 10:25 AM | Reply

The only one that didn't trust the count was Lewzer because he, well, lewzed.

#87 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-20 10:26 AM | Reply

Trumpy Penny announced the sky was falling and all of his stupid followers started steaming in their MAGA hats and shaking their fists and pointing their guns at the clouds.

Oh, btw, Bill Johnson and all the Trumpers" Larry Kinkaid is still NOT dead.

#88 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-05-20 10:40 AM | Reply

"Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.
I am done on this thread.
#83 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-20 10:10 AM"

This comment is either willfully ignorant or willfully disingenuous.

The most obvious thing about all the lawsuits and recounts since the 2020 election polls closed is that regardless of the results of all those lawsuits and recounts, there is always just one MORE goalpost that must be crossed.

From the start, or at least early on in this whole "vote verification" process, there should have been an agreed upon standard for determining what is considered to be a "verified vote" (in each case, if necessary) BEFORE any lawsuit or recount was allowed to proceed. This continuing "carrot on a stick" amounts to nothing more than bait-and-switch and is essentially the political equivalent of a never-ending war without a defined goal!

#89 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2021-05-20 10:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Considering we have early voting that gives everyone ample time to vote and is fair, why should we set ourselves up with a chaotic voting system that creates so many issues.
Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.
I am done on this thread.
POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-20 10:10 AM | REPLY

You're such a fraud. Go away and learn something.

#90 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-20 11:29 AM | Reply

Personally, I've not convinced yet Trump intended on people breaking into the Capitol.
Sorry.
Sure...it was pretty well planned...I'll agree to that.
I want to see how this plays out in court before I pass judgement.

#15 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

If I incite a mob and tell them to shoot and kill certain people but they end up beating those people to death instead, I'm responsible.

You also conveniently ignore Trump refusing to let the National Guard step in.

#91 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-05-20 12:27 PM | Reply

Sy,

I've seen a variety of explanations involving the Capitol Police and the Pentagon why the National Guard acted as they did.

Like I said earlier. I will wait to see how things play out in court and not base my opinion on the Drudge Retort Players.

#92 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 02:25 PM | Reply

" I will wait to see how things play out in court "

Nonsense. Look at your lies about the safety and accuracy of the vote: The courts spoke 60 times. You just refuse to listen, waiting for a "more thorough" audit, which, of course, won't be thorough enough unless it finds Trump won.

#93 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-05-20 03:53 PM | Reply

Dan,

Don't put words in my mouth.

Trump winning isn't important to me.

I can be happy with either one winning because I see value in both.

But I don't like mail-in ballots for reasons I've went on about.

And it's going to take more than I've seen to convince me Trump approved of the Capitol break-in.

This next comment may not stay up but I'm also not 100% convinced the election was fair, take it however you want.

Do I think Trump actually won? No..
But I'm not sure.

Do I think there were irregularities in how votes were cast and counted? Absolutely...this was a trial run and those never go well the first time. Sort of stupid holding a presidential election like was done but covid had everyone acting crazy.

Ok..I'm done again...

#94 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 04:32 PM | Reply

Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.
I am done on this thread.
#83 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

The tremendous lack of Trust was manufactured by Trump and the GOP.

You're an idiot if you can't see that.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:35 PM | Reply

"this was a trial run"

No it wasn't. Literally every state has mail-in ballots as an option. Some states have them as the only option.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm also not 100% convinced the election was fair, take it however you want."

This could mean just about anything. I could tell you the election wasn't fair because the Electoral College isn't fair. Your statement could mean anything, and that's why it means nothing.

You lurk in the shadows and operate in half-truths and innuendo.

Your way of thinking is a lot more dangerous than you realize.

Maybe you do realize it and the folksy, good-natured persona is all just part of the ACT.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 04:41 PM | Reply

Frankly...the attack on the Capitol likely would have never happened were it not for the tremendous lack of trusting the count caused by mail-in ballots.
I am done on this thread.
#83 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

WHy are you running?!

You know DAMN well the attempted insurrection would never have taken place had Trump done what he should of done and conceded.

It's really fnkcin' simple and you're making it far more complicated than necessary.

I'll point this out to you on another thread, just to be sure you get the message.

#98 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-05-20 04:47 PM | Reply

Oh STFU BillJohnson. We've been voting by mail sinse 1775. We will be voting by mail for the foreseeable future. DEAL WITH IT

#99 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-20 05:35 PM | Reply

Laura,

We've been pooping in outhouses that long too but along came better technology.

#100 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 08:05 PM | Reply

Bill Johnson acts like voting by mail is something new and unreliable. That's not the problem for Republicans. The problem is Democrats started voting by mail in far greater numbers than they had before and undercut what has traditionally bean a GOP absentee ballot advantage:

Florida Republicans rushed to curb mail voting after Trump's attacks on the practice. Now some fear it could lower GOP turnout.

Republican operatives worth their salt remember well the Sunshine State's 1988 U.S. Senate race.

Floridians went to sleep that Nov. 8 believing that Democrat Buddy MacKay had prevailed with a slim lead of less than one percentage point. The television networks had called the race for him. The St. Petersburg Times published a story the next day declaring that Republican Connie Mack had "failed to win big" in crucial conservative strongholds Lee and Pinellas counties.

Then the last of the absentee ballots came in. They went 3 to 1 for Mack, delivering him a 34,518-vote victory.

"It was legendary," said David Johnson, a longtime GOP consultant in the state. "The Republicans had done such a good job with absentee ballots that they eked out a narrow win."

So began a long and fruitful relationship between the GOP and absentee voting. Republican campaigns invested millions of dollars encouraging their supporters to cast ballots by mail. State legislators passed laws making it easier. Over the ensuing decades, GOP voters in Florida became so comfortable with casting ballots by mail that in 2020, nearly 35 percent of those who turned out did so, according to state data compiled by University of Florida political science professor Daniel A. Smith.

Virtually every narrow Republican victor of the past generation " and there have been many, including two of the state's current top officeholders, Gov. Ron DeSantis and Sen. Rick Scott " owes their victory, at least in part, to mail voting.


www.washingtonpost.com

#101 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-20 08:29 PM | Reply

Let's hope the GOP ends up cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

#102 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-20 08:32 PM | Reply

Gal,

It is not as reliable as in person voting and I believe there will be a margin of error that is fine with most things but not with votes.

Votes must be as accurate as we can get it.

It is sad you are willing sacrifice accuracy for pandering for votes.

#103 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 08:39 PM | Reply

It is sad you are willing sacrifice accuracy for pandering for votes.

What's sad is you keep saying you are done with the thread and keep coming back.

#104 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-20 08:46 PM | Reply

Redial,

You're right.

It is sad I'm still posting here.

Waste of time.

#105 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-05-20 08:49 PM | Reply

"It is sad you are willing sacrifice accuracy for pandering for votes.

That doesn't even make sense. Everybody panders for votes. That has nothing to do with the accuracy of the election.

To be fair not everybody panders for votes. For example, you are pandering against votes.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-05-20 08:51 PM | Reply

Waste of time.

The continuous beating of dead horses is like that. They do it from Germany as well.

#107 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-05-20 08:52 PM | Reply

It is not as reliable as in person voting and I believe there will be a margin of error that is fine with most things but not with votes.
Votes must be as accurate as we can get it.
It is sad you are willing sacrifice accuracy for pandering for votes.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-20 08:39 PM | REPLY

You'rfe such a dishonest hack. Mail-in ballots are very reliable and accurate.

#108 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-20 08:53 PM | Reply

Laura,
We've been pooping in outhouses that long too but along came better technology.

POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2021-05-20 08:05 PM | REPLY

Many times old technology is light years better than new technology.

#109 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-05-20 08:54 PM | Reply

"It is not as reliable as in person voting"

That's your opinion. I voted absentee/by mail for the first time this year. Because of the reports of DeJoy monkeying with the post office, I dropped my ballot off at an early voting site rather than mailing it in. I gotta admit the drop box didn't look right to me. It looked more like a turquoise suitcase than what I imagined a drop box would look like, but folks waiting in line to vote early assured me that was the drop box, and when I noticed that it was chained in place, I felt somewhat reassured. Just to be on the safe side when I got home, I called up the county Board of Elections and was told, yes, that was indeed the drop box and that the sheriff's department accompanies someone from the board of elections when they go to pick them up. Well, okay then. I felt confident that my vote was cast in as reliable a way as it ever was when I voted in person.

#110 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-05-20 09:04 PM | Reply

We've been pooping in outhouses that long too but along came better technology.

So. You're suggesting voting should be done through technology?

Text your vote to USA2022. That's your local area code + 872-2022.

Get your text in before 8 pm local time for your vote to count!

#111 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-05-20 10:00 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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