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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 09, 2021

Well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, right? But, as Orwell said, where's the omelette? The murder and other cruelty aside, what is the material record of Marxism? Poverty, misery, starvation. There was once a joke: "If the Eskimos ever went socialist, they'd have to import ice." In Cuba, that joke was no joke: Under Fidel Castro, this famously sugar-producing nation had to import sugar.

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Well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, right? But, as Orwell said, where's the omelette? The murder and other cruelty aside, what is the material record of Marxism? Poverty, misery, starvation.

There was once a joke: "If the Eskimos ever went socialist, they'd have to import ice." In Cuba, that joke was no joke: Under Fidel Castro, this famously sugar-producing nation had to import sugar.

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Marxism doesn't mean what you think it does.

#1 | Posted by a_monson at 2021-06-09 11:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I agree that Chico, Groucho and Harpo irreparably damaged the appetite for irreverent and surrealist humor in this country for nearly fifty years but you should really leave Zeppo out of it. He wasn't funny and what's more his nickname was stupid.

#2 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-06-09 11:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Marxism doesn't mean what you think it does."

Me?

Does it mean what Marx thought it did?

Or is what Marxism actually was the important thing?

#3 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-09 11:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#3

Let's not forget the lasting impact of the smooth adult sounds produced by Mr. Richard Marx.

#4 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-09 11:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#3 Marx was paid by a rather disreputable nobleman to create his works. He had 17 kids and never worked a day in his life. I still keep thinking it was all part of some kind of wierd eugenics thing, because the same industrialists and bankers that paid for the Nazi party also paid for Antifa and the Frankfurt school. Their goal was too make money off war. Didn't work out though....

But the same type of people are still around. The elephant in the room has never changed.

#5 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-10 01:04 AM | Reply

Marx had an interesting - and, I believe, largely persuasive - perspective on how/why societies tick and tock as they do. For me, he definitely starts falling apart on the historical determinism angle. That's where he veers off into what seems almost religious thinking.

#6 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-06-10 08:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#6

Marx's most fatal flaw was in the economic theory he devised, although he isn't uniquely to blame since the basis of his work was copied from Smith and Ricardo. In his economy, there was no such thing as a service industry, and any goods produced were undifferentiated products limited to their utilitarian value. You can see why this model wouldn't be an accurate reflection of the real world.

In modern terms, socialism (where the workers own or control the means of production) itself would also fail to address income inequality without additional governmental interference. A worker at a firm with what would have been a high profit margin would earn far more than a worker at a firm with what would have been a low profit margin, even if their labor contributions were exactly the same.

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 08:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Eskimos import refrigerators.

Instead of pontificating about economic fantasies, why not compare and improve real economic models and ignore labels.

China's model has dramatically increased their wealth, quality of infrastructure, housing and ability to innovate. It has also caused massive pollution.

Norway has a very high standard of living and personal freedom.

The US has the richest people and most advanced technology, but crumbling infrastructure and extreme income inequality and grinding economic decline in the rust belt.

What policies have what outcomes. Who gets to choose?

#8 | Posted by bored at 2021-06-10 09:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Who gets to choose?

#8 | POSTED BY BORED

In America is used to be the voter.

Back when America was great (before Republicanism and Trumpism came along).

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-06-10 10:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Wreckage of anything when you have a 900 lb gorilla on your doorstep sabotaging you at every step with sanctions and other shenanigans.

look around, look around care to discuss the wreckage of capitalism?

We have no excuse, this is self-inflicted.

#10 | Posted by fresno500 at 2021-06-10 05:25 PM | Reply

"Under Fidel Castro, this famously sugar-producing nation had to import sugar."

And since at least 1920, under every American President, the famously oil-rich American nation had to import oil. www.eia.gov
(Technically, in February 1943 US oil imports were zero. :)

So, what's your point?

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 05:40 PM | Reply

"Wreckage of anything when you have a 900 lb gorilla on your doorstep sabotaging you at every step with sanctions and other shenanigans."

Really?

You're going to blame the failure of Marxism on something other than Marxism?

The only honest statement you could make is that if the entire world had supported Marxism, we'd now be equally poor.

...and even the communists exported products in a capitalist construct in order to provide those things that socialism alone couldn't provide.

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 08:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"look around, look around care to discuss the wreckage of capitalism?"

Lets.

Let's go back to Orwell's statement.

"Well, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, right? But, as Orwell said, where's the omelette?"

The omelet in this case is clearly visible. In fact the omelette is more and more available to people around the globe.

When I look around, I see a planet where the expansion of capitalism has resulted in more than half the people on the planet being middle class. Many of them former socialist countries bound by Marxism.

#13 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 08:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

"Maciej Grabski looks out over a panoramic view of the Baltic Sea, from the 32nd floor of the Olivia Star tower in Gdask, Poland.

"My children never saw the dark, devastated atmosphere that I remember from the 1980s," he says. "Many people take things for granted now."

The tower, built by Grabski's construction company, is the centrepiece of a new business development on the outskirts of Gdask, and filled with the offices of multinational companies. It is next door to the squat, concrete Olivia sports hall, where the Solidarity trade union movement held its first congress in 1981, heralding the beginning of the end for communism in the region...

...But 30 years on from the heady days of autumn 1989, a range of metrics demonstrate that the transition from communism to capitalism has been a remarkable success."

www.theguardian.com

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 08:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

What about hunter gatherer societies? People who live in a state of nature without money? Agricultural barter economies? Why does western civilization always destroy these people's traditions every time they engage, or more frequently, exploit them and their lands?

Why does capitalism always collapse into oligarchy with ten people owning more than 100,000,000. Capitalism is fatally flawed. It sees a finite world as infinite, infinite economic growth is a fallacy.

It will destroy our world in it's quest for endless riches for a few.It will result in misery and the death of the habitable biosphere.

I therefore am not a capitalist. The worship of endless economic growth is a sickness.

It will kill us all in the end.

#15 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-06-10 08:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15 - what is your solution?

#16 | Posted by jakester at 2021-06-10 09:12 PM | Reply

"What about hunter gatherer societies? People who live in a state of nature without money?"

Our ancestors?

Most of them figured out how to build a better mousetrap.

You could still live a hunter-gatherer existence if that's the life you wanted to pursue. But about ten thousand years ago our ancestors realized that there were ways to get more by doing less.

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 09:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You could still live a hunter-gatherer existence if that's the life you wanted to pursue."

You could?

Whose land are you going to do that on?

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 09:40 PM | Reply

"Capitalism is fatally flawed. It sees a finite world as infinite, infinite economic growth is a fallacy."

Marx said the same thing around 200 years ago. Yet, between then and now, the exact opposite proved to be true. The problem with your statement is that it's based on a snapshot of society at this moment. It doesn't take into account evolution.

Consider this. You're Karl, sitting at the Black Gate in Trier, and you want to take to your friend in New York City. You could write a letter, or get on a ship and visit in person. Either way it's going to take roughly two months to make the one-way journey. Last Saturday I flew from Frankfurt to Las Vegas. 22 hours, and that was an unnecessarily long and painful trip. This Saturday, I will make the return trip. And that's for travel. I can call anywhere in the world instantaneously.

Evolution creates opportunity. I can't predict the future, and at some point Marx's predictions may come true, but we're still a long ways off from that.

#19 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 09:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#19 We are going to lose all useful Earth orbits for the next 500 years in the the next real conflict. When you hit a satellite, it blows into 5000 fragments, etc, you know about the Cascading Debris Field thing.

Nearly all usefully available mineral resources will tapped in 500 years. The Oligala will be empty in a hundred.

We better evolve damn quick, and we can't do that with people trying to drag us back into communism, with it's racism, sexism and bigotry. Those guys are Nazis.

#20 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-10 10:01 PM | Reply

#19 But if it weren't for ships sailing across the Atlantic, Karl wouldn't have a friend in New York to send a letter to in the first place.

What you are doing is called chasing the dragon's tail.

You are basically just preaching The Myth Of Progress. But since you don't understand how you think, you didn't know that.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 10:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"communism, with it's racism, sexism and bigotry."

???

The photo of Afghan women wearing miniskirts in Kabul in the 70s comes immediately to mind.

I believe the Politburo was about 55% women. Whereas our House is around 25% and Senate is under 10%.

BUT... HER... EMAILS!!!

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 10:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Blah, blah, blah, evolution will not save us. We will not BE saved. Endless economic growth will destroy our living world until we kill each other over dwindling resources. Then and only then will the biosphere begin to recover. In the fossil record the Holocene will greatly resemble the late Permian extinction event, when 90% of living genera went extinct in a shirt span of time.

The Chernoble exclusion zone is the only thing that gives me hope. Life has exploded there in a way no one could have ever forseen.

The radioactive soil and water have kept humanity at Bay for 35 years and now Wolves, brown bears, many species that were extinct for centuries in that part of Europe have returned in numbers.

One can hope if we destroy ourselves, and I firmly believe we eventually will; That if a few populations of animals and plants survive the Holocaust of death and destruction, the world will renew.

But capitalism itself is a Death Cult.

#23 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-06-10 10:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Evolution creates opportunity."

Pretty sure you're referring to the scientific method. Which produced the theory of evolution, among other things.

Evolution in the biological sense usually doesn't do much of anything. See: Kimura "Nearly Neutral" theory of evolution.

This was a Big Deal in the 80s. In no small part because she was a woman in patriarchal Japan.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Whose land are you going to do that on?"

Lots and lots and lots of public land up in Alaska. I suspect the same is true of Siberia. You could even disappear into the vast swamps or forests of the contiguous US if you wanted to. It's not like hunter-gatherers are tethered to any one place.

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"You are basically just preaching The Myth Of Progress. But since you don't understand how you think, you didn't know that."

Ahhh...yes. Progress is a myth perpetuated by our capitalist masters.

If only I knew how to think.

This was dumb even for you, Snoof Dog.

#26 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Blah, blah, blah, evolution will not save us. We will not BE saved. Endless economic growth will destroy our living world until we kill each other over dwindling resources."

Like I said...maybe. But not because of capitalism. Or socialism. The socialists were pursuing the same ends as capitalists...they were just very bad at it.

They didn't know how to think.

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"In the fossil record the Holocene will greatly resemble the late Permian extinction event, when 90% of living genera went extinct in a shirt span of time."

How may emerged to replace them?

The PETM, the greatest example of rapid climate change in history, wiped out many old and famous species. But it gave rise to primates. It gave rise to us.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The Chernoble exclusion zone is the only thing that gives me hope. Life has exploded there in a way no one could have ever forseen."

Maybe the socialists did something right by building faulty reactors?

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Pretty sure you're referring to the scientific method"

I'm referring to technology. Evolution probably wasn't the correct term.

...but it's not important. Socialists pursued innovation, just like the capitalists...they just weren't good at it.

Had socialism prevailed, you and I likely would not be having this conversation.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-10 10:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

What are socialists and communists and how can you tell them apart?

#31 | Posted by bored at 2021-06-10 11:29 PM | Reply

Had socialism prevailed, you and I likely would not be having this conversation.

What's that supposed to mean?

In WWII, the Socialists pushed the Nazis all the way back to Berlin, before we could even get to Berlin.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-10 11:40 PM | Reply

Madbomber is in the thrall of an orthodoxy. He's not really thinking critically or even rationally. He just sees "socialism" as evil and inefficient. It's not reasoned out, he's applying arguments after the fact to justify his pre existing bias.

A socialist government properly administered is no more or less evil than a capitalistic one.

The Nazi's were Capitalists, something Madbomber would deny against all evidence to his dying breath.

Nuff' said.

#33 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-06-10 11:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What are socialists and communists and how can you tell them apart?"

All communists are socialists. Not all socialists are communists.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 08:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"What's that supposed to mean?"

Had the world taken a different turn and elected to go socialist, it's highly likely-a virtual certainty, that it would have ended innovation.

So you wouldn't be looking at a computer screen right now.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 08:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

In WWII, the Socialists pushed the Nazis all the way back to Berlin, before we could even get to Berlin.

#32 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-06-10 11:40 PM | FLAG:

Imagine how much faster they'd have done it without Stalinism, Order 227, the great purges, etc. They were already a capitalist entity with performance bonuses for workers draped in a red flag.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-06-11 08:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The hardcore socialists were exiled. At one point a Spaniard from the People's Commissariat tried to kill Trotsky with an axe.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-06-11 08:41 AM | Reply

Is innovation always a good thing? Nuclear weapons are a good example. Can one make a case for them being unnecessary and down right counterproductive? How about automobiles, admittedly more useful and less destructive, but are they really necessary to live a good life? They waste resources and destroy vast areas with their parking and road network infrastructure. People got by without them for millennia.

Most innovations are disruptive and often quite harmful. The internet has made life more convienient, but has it really made it better?

Innovation is overrated. I'm a Luddite.

#38 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-06-11 10:23 AM | Reply

#35 Which country launched the first satellite? First man in space? Was that done with a giant trebuchet?

#39 | Posted by bored at 2021-06-11 06:09 PM | Reply

#39 - The Soviets did. But had they not been in a race to beat the US, (if the entire world was a socialist state) those events would have taken longer if at all.

It's much the same as when AT&T controlled virtually all of telecom in the US. Long distance phone calls were expensive. They were about 10c/min in 1970 equivalent to 70c/min today. But then the courts broke up AT&T's monopoly eventually bringing us free long distance. AT&T had no competition and therefor no incentive to bring down long distance prices, much less make them free. This also spurred competition in new technologies that brought us the internet.

Without competition from the US, the USSR would not have had Sputnik or Yuri Gagarin in space when they did.

#40 | Posted by jakester at 2021-06-11 06:41 PM | Reply

"Had the world taken a different turn and elected to go socialist, it's highly likely-a virtual certainty, that it would have ended innovation."

So you're saying there was no innovation, ever, in the USSR?
No Sputnik?
LOL

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:02 PM | Reply

"Without competition from the US, the USSR would not have had Sputnik or Yuri Gagarin in space when they did."

I guess you're right.
Without competition, there wouldn't have been a competition for the USSR to win.
LOL

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:04 PM | Reply

Snoofy, everything the USSR did was to forward it's goal of total world domination. That's why it's people lived three families to an apartment and had no stuff.

It feels so weird. After all these years on the DR, it all starts to finally become so transparent....

#43 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-11 07:12 PM | Reply

"Snoofy, everything the USSR did was to forward it's goal of total world domination"

The same is true for Capitalism.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:17 PM | Reply

"A socialist government properly administered is no more or less evil than a capitalistic one."

But it is a more authoritarian and prohibitive government...it has to be.

#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"That's why it's people lived three families to an apartment and had no stuff."

Once again, the same is true of Capitalism!

The Number Of Adults Living With Roommates Just Keeps Rising - Here's Why
www.bustle.com
According to a new survey from Pew Research Center, almost one-in-three U.S. adults has an adult roommate who is not their romantic partner or a college student aged 18 to 24. This rise in shared living is primarily due to an increase in two situations: Millennials moving back in with their parents post-college graduation and parents moving in with their adult children.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:29 PM | Reply

So you're saying there was no innovation, ever, in the USSR? No Sputnik?

Not really. Certainly not compared to the west.

Like the west, most of their early successes were derived from captured German technology and scientists. But that only get's a country so far. Which is why the Russians were never able to move much beyond where they were when they sent Gagarin into space, while the US put a bunch of manned missions on the moon, as well as built the Space Shuttle.

That's not to say that the Soviets couldn't have innovated, but socialism is a zero sum game. The Russians had both a moon mission plan and a space shuttle. But pursuing those efforts would have resulted in the diversion of state resources from somewhere else. And there wasn't much of a reason for individuals to devote their lives to innovation because there wasn't really anything in it for them if they did.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#45 KIt's so easy: you can Universal health care free or the same amount as a subsidy fro the private insurance of your choice. And the minimum wage is a living wage. Place import duties on goods from low-wage countries, scaled, and lower manufacturing taxes with the revenue. It would solve everything.

But you can't cause a communist revolution unless you destroy society totally. That's why the far left fights that.

#48 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-11 07:31 PM | Reply

"But it is a more authoritarian and prohibitive government"

Whereas we have a more authoritarian and prohibitive society, at least for the bottom tier of the economy, which is the economy in which 4 in 5 Americans exist.

So I guess you're saying,
Capitalism is better, because the rich people have more freedom and privilege than the poor people.
Unlike Socialism, where the rich people have more freedom and privilege than the poor people.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:31 PM | Reply

"Snoofy, everything the USSR did was to forward it's goal of total world domination."

World domination may be a bit of a stretch. Regional domination, certainly.

It's sort of funny that Marx's critiques of capitalism were truer in the Soviet system than anywhere else.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"socialism is a zero sum game."

Can I see your math?

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:33 PM | Reply

"Once again, the same is true of Capitalism!"

Really?

Capitalists governments distribute living facilities, and then dictate who lives within them?

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

HelimRat made a good point. MadBomber thinks "universal health care" is an example of the oppression of "an authoritarian government."

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:35 PM | Reply

You would despise Germany. Many houses, including mine, were specifically built to house more than one family. But the average cost of a house in DEU is $500k+ Euros, and mortgages aren't nearly as easy to come by.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Capitalists governments distribute living facilities, and then dictate who lives within them?"

Capitalist governments encourage capitalists to exploit their own citizens needs for housing -- or let them go homeless.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:38 PM | Reply

"And the minimum wage is a living wage"

And if the value of someone's labor is less than the value of a "living wage," the government prohibits them from legally selling their labor.

That's what I mean by authoritarian

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You would despise Germany."

Why?
You are the one who ought to despite Germany.
All those social services, all those taxes, all those restrictions on being a Nazi.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:39 PM | Reply

"Place import duties on goods from low-wage countries, scaled, and lower manufacturing taxes with the revenue."

And decrease the spending power for everyone. Again, authoritarian.

And why not follow what the rest of the west has done and institute a VAT? That's how much of western Europe funds the social programs than many progressives in the US seek to emulate.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

If the value of someone's labor is less than the value of a "living wage," how do they live?
???

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:40 PM | Reply

"HelimRat made a good point. MadBomber thinks "universal health care" is an example of the oppression of "an authoritarian government."

It doesn't have to be.

With a few exceptions, most of the developed world has options when it comes to healthcare. But yeah, the Bernie Sanders style, you get the care the government gives you when it wants to give you, and you get no other options, is most certainly authoritarian

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"All those social services, all those taxes, all those restrictions on being a Nazi."

All those value added taxes...

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Capitalist governments encourage capitalists to exploit their own citizens needs for housing -- or let them go homeless."

You mean by charging them rent?

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

As for being a Nazi...I was in Belgium the weekend before last and there was a communist rally.

A bunch of old men carrying the hammer an sickle. I thought of you.

They were friendly though. They gave my daughter some communist flyers and spoke to her in English about what they were doing.

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You mean by charging them rent?"

Are you telling me that charging rent isn't rent-seeking behavior?

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:49 PM | Reply

"But yeah, the Bernie Sanders style, you get the care the government gives you when it wants to give you, and you get no other options, is most certainly authoritarian"

You're talking about a thing that doesn't exist.
That's not a good way to convince us that the thing you're talking about actually exists.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:52 PM | Reply

Though, your health care is fairly described as "you get the care the government gives you when it wants to give you, and you get no other options, is most certainly authoritarian."

So if that's good enough for you, it's good enough for everyone else.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 07:54 PM | Reply

"Are you telling me that charging rent isn't rent-seeking behavior?"

Nope. It's "I don't want my house to be foreclosed" behavior.

Is this where you tell me that it's wrong for people to have to pay for their house? Unlike the USSR, where there were no mortgages?

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You're talking about a thing that doesn't exist."

It doesn't...at least in the US.

But that's why key progressive politicians are advocating for its existence.

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-06-11 07:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The purpose of capitalism is to find the value of something. Nothing in it says "conquer the world and kill everybody with no dirt under their fingernails".

#69 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-11 08:13 PM | Reply

Heh. I just would realized it would be institutionally racist of us to decrease the wages of Chinese slaves through import duties so that non-slaves could have jobs.

#70 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-11 08:20 PM | Reply

"The purpose of capitalism is to find the value of something."

No.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 08:39 PM | Reply

Nope. It's "I don't want my house to be foreclosed" behavior.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

If you sold your house, by definition it wouldn't be foreclosed.
But you'd rather use your house as a means to redistribute wealth upwards.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 08:40 PM | Reply

"Is this where you tell me that it's wrong for people to have to pay for their house?"

Did I say it was wrong?
I said it was rent-seeking behavior.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 08:41 PM | Reply

"But that's why key progressive politicians are advocating for its existence."

It already exists, for you.
So, what's the problem with it existing for others?

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-11 08:42 PM | Reply

Oceans apart day after day
And I slowly go insane
I hear your voice on the line
But it doesn't stop the pain
If I see you next to never
How can we say forever

#75 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-06-12 12:09 PM | Reply

Rand Paul Blames Richard Marx for 'Calling for Violence Against Me' After Suspicious Powder Incident

#76 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-06-12 04:36 PM | Reply

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