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Saturday, June 19, 2021

he Supreme Court threw out a lawsuit Thursday alleges Nestle and Cargill trafficked child slaves to farms in the West African nation the Ivory Coast to work on cocoa farms for the food companies.

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The case was brought to the court by six plaintiffs, who were originally from Mali, another West African nation. The plaintiffs attempted to use the 1789 Alien Tort Statute, a law that allows foreigners to bring certain suits to U.S. courts.

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This is really bad news. If a country allowing slavery can't sue the US for exploitation, we will never solve Systemic Racism, reparations or not.

#1 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 07:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The court ruling from the cited article...

...The nation's highest court ruled in an 8-1 decision that the lawsuit should be dismissed because the court does not have jurisdiction in the country in which the alleged crimes took place....


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-06-19 07:29 PM | Reply

No luck with that 18th Century law?

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-06-19 07:45 PM | Reply

#2 Yeah, you see what the problem is here, right? Of the 11.5 million slaves sold to the Americas, 450,000 went to the Slave States.

250,000 went to Mexico, 2 million to Brazil, 4 million to Argentina, 2 million to the Caribbean, and the rest where sold across central and South America except for Uruguay.

Mexico genocided it's slaves when Spain said to free them in 1837. They lifted public segregation in 1996.

#4 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 07:48 PM | Reply

By 1860, the final census taken before the American Civil War, there were four million slaves in the South, compared with less than 0.5 million free African Americans in all of the US.

www.statista.com

You do realize that slaves were bred like farm animals right, dumbass?

Take your worthless statistic and place it in your ample lower intestine.

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 07:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#4 ... Yeah, you see what the problem is here, right? ...

I see the legal question that SCOTUS ruled upon, and I agree with their ruling on that legal question.

What you raise as the problem seems to be unrelated to the legal question ruled upon by SCOTUS.


#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-06-19 08:07 PM | Reply

#5 Tony, my statistics on the importation of slaves are completely accurate and not argued by any credible historian. Look at any Encyclopedia.

I'm sure there where a lot more slaves in 1860 than when America was founded in 1619, right?

Jesus dude, who are trying to convince, yourself?

#7 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 08:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And yes, that's why half of Brazil's population today is ------- - they where bred, because -------'s where more valuable under the Spanish Black Laws, which assigned you to one of 400 racial categories that determined what jobs you can hold.

How can you be so damn blind of what happened?

#8 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 08:29 PM | Reply

Don't be so ignorantly transparent. Stevie Wonder can see what you're trying to do, ie, intentionally tout a meaningless number to minimize the millions of Africans and their progeny affected by slavery in America.

Just stop, please. Take the hood off and recognize your own racial bias and inherent need to downplay the significance that racial disparity has always played in America and continues to play to this day. That doesn't mean that any single non-Black American individual should be compelled to feel "guilt" for this reality. Simple recognition of intentional systemic racism within the American historical construct is a good place to start meaningful discourse on how to remedy the baked-in problems. But trying to falsely claim terms were invented 4 decades after they were used is the vestige of a moron. It doesn't matter when words or terms came into use. The issue is the policy, not the language.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 08:42 PM | Reply

No I'm not. I'm sick and ------- tired of all you god-damned Nazi's calling everyone racist and backing it up with lies.

It it isn't funny and it pisses me off into 20th%-age. Don't you see what you are doing?

Now how about coming up with a God damn policy instead of going all Critical Theory, because the actual theory of Critical Theory is to only cause destruction.

#10 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 09:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

No I'm not. I'm sick and ------- tired of all you god-damned Nazi's calling everyone racist and backing it up with lies.

So that's what you got out of #9? GFY until your eyes bleed ignoramus. You can't have an intelligent conversation with a constipated moron who thinks the academic analysis and projection of historical facts are somehow lies when they repeatedly show the complete, unmistakable influence that race has had upon almost every facet of this nation's development and progress since even before it was founded.

Howl at boogeymen little man. Howl away.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 10:00 PM | Reply

"How can you be so damn blind of what happened?"

He probably wasn't taught Critical Race Theory in time.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-19 10:05 PM | Reply

TonyRoma, I have a question for you. Feel free to skip this one if it's not your cup of tea:

I've always referred to black people as black. Should I change that up and start referring to African American people as African Americans?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-19 10:09 PM | Reply

Tony, a young man who grows up without a father is 8x as likely to end up end jail, and 90% likely to spend his entire life in poverty.

That's 70% of Black men. That's why the Black crime rate is 6 times higher, and a Black man is three times as likely to get shot by a cop.

It's 30% for whites, 20% for Asians, and 3% for Jews. And that's why median family household incomes fall that way, too.

You want a policy? Start believing in the nuclear family, not CRT. That's just a victim's path.

#14 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-19 10:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Start believing in the nuclear family"

How does white men believing in the nuclear family keep black men out of jail?

Are you asking white judges to think of the poor black children, when sentencing thugs, rapists, and murderers... the ones who aren't from Mexico I mean!

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-19 10:17 PM | Reply

#14

Do you have a fecking clue why statistics such as those exist? Obviously you don't. It's no use with you. Unbelievable.

Seriously, GFY. I don't have the patience for you.

#16 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 10:19 PM | Reply

#15

No, he's saying Black men should act more like WHITE MEN and if they do they'll receive the same treatment, have the same success, and identical opportunities - it is only their lack of all the preferable qualities that make WHITE MEN so successful which holds the entire race back. His stats tell him so. If only Blacks would make better choices everything would be fine. There are no systemic obstacles for Blacks to overcome in American society, they should simply mirror WHITES.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 10:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Is he really that clueless? Poor guy.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-19 10:31 PM | Reply

I've always referred to black people as black. Should I change that up and start referring to African American people as African Americans?

Just now saw this. With the caveat that I'm 61 and hardly in touch with today's generation's sensibilities, it seems that in print, the preferred nomenclature is now Black - capital B. Personally, as long as the person is saying it respectably, anything outside obvious slights are acceptable.

I guess in my life we've gone from colored people to Afro-Americans to blacks to African Americans back to Blacks. And I've left out persons of color - which now fits the broad category of multiracial Americans of many ethnicities.

Personally, I only use racial terms when absolutely necessary to differentiate how we commonly analyze and talk about the immediate physical identification of individuals as members of social group. As you've undoubtedly seen me argue, race is a created construct that cannot be quantified biologically - ie, what percentage of what blood lineage makes one this or that, and very few humans are 100% anything as the globe continues to shrink.

It's kinda funny, but I read your Wikepedia link in the Yang thread, and a portion of the 'white privilege' introduction took great pains to note that many aspects of "racial" bias and language are actually based on class bias, and many transcend "race" into economic inequalities that fall not only on non-whites but poorer whites as well. IOW, as with life, it's complicated, and any intelligent discourse has to allow that any one person's opinion is just that.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-19 10:53 PM | Reply

Thanks for your insights TonyRoma.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-20 12:20 AM | Reply

TONY

First, I wanted to say I really enjoy your comments on any topic.

I grew up in a lily white suburb, but I've never judged anyone by the color of their skin, even when I was a kid. Never understood prejudice.

But my dad was rather prejudiced. However, all of that changed when I was a young teenager.

I joined a funk band who rehearsed in the "inner city," the only white guy. Dad would drive me to rehearsals. At first, he'd sit in the car and read while we practiced. But after a couple weeks, the mom of my friend invited my dad in to eat dinner with them while we were busy funking out in the basement. Not only the first time he'd ever been inside an AA's house, but also his first experience eating 'greens.' LOL

The next few months were enlightening to both my dad and JT's parents, who no doubt had their own set of prejudices about white people. And within a couple of weeks, I'd come up from the basement after rehearsals to find them drinking coffee, enjoying each other's company.

It was really something to watch dad's attitude change. As is often true, the experience of sharing meals and stories of life, prejudice (to pre-judge someone) faded away. He and they really grew to like each other.

#21 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-06-20 04:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

AU

I had a similar experience with my own dad who grew up in the deep south just north of Birmingham. They were poor white folks who owned a small cotton farm. There were 5 boys who worked in the field side by side with their one slave. The family had all the prejudices you'd expect for that time and place.

It was only after my dad moved up north and worked as a foreman for the Globe Brick Company that he had an occasion to abandon those prejudices. One of his crew was a black man that my dad grew to like and respect. Imagine our surprise when my dad invited the man home for Sunday dinner. Their friendship grew over the years and he became a fixture in our family.

That friendship was an end to an era for my dad. We children never heard him utter a single word of prejudice the rest of his life.

#22 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-06-20 05:14 AM | Reply

Jesus Christ, Tony. I grew up street. Ever been to prison? It's the same story everywhere (except on special block) "I grew up in a broken home."

White people can't clean your room up for you.

#23 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-20 06:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

You could ask the Jews though. Hey, 3% Ovey?

#24 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-20 06:53 AM | Reply

As is often true, the experience of sharing meals and stories of life, prejudice (to pre-judge someone) faded away.

The story of many of our lives. Once we realize that everyone has far more in common than in difference, learned prejudice often slips away - on both sides. But many still confuse prejudice - which is the vestige of individuals making choices based on their own life experiences or lack thereof as it regards being around/knowing others of different cultures or ethnicities - and systemic racism.

Though your father and JT's dad became friends, if it were late 50s Nashville, they still couldn't have walked into any number of retail establishments or restaurants in the city and been served together. Your father would have been fine, but JT's would have been shown the door simply for the color of his skin and what that represented in the dominant culture at that period in time.

When people want to argue that Blacks can be "racist" that answer is always "No, they cannot" because in no stricture are the majority of white people beholden to Blacks for the basic permissions of life - access to education, healthcare, shelter, opportunity and the unfettered ability to be and do whatever they want within the limits of their own capabilities without barriers being placed in their path that have nothing to do with them as individuals or their own choices. More succinctly, Blacks to this day do not have unfettered access to the American promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Blacks indeed can be and are prejudiced. Every human has this capacity but it is 100% learned, it does not come from nature. White privilege within the context of the American promise is the ability to arrive at whatever door one seeks to enter and at that point not face unseen or unspoken opposition based upon how one looks or by what different sounding name one's parents may have given you. It isn't always about something being "given" simply because of whiteness, it's often something that isn't taken away or stripped from that individual because our legal and social systems allow it to happen since "that's just the way it is" - because whites in America's past set it up this way intentionally to disadvantage whole groups of individuals unlike themselves. And yes, some of the same barriers affect lower classes of white people too. I think this is one of the conundrums of the language that we use to talk about disparity - some of it is racial, other class based, and all economically impactful in real peoples' lives to a negative degree.

Jesus Christ, Tony. I grew up street.

It isn't about the streets, it's about the places where power and influence are wielded that determine how the rest of us live and what opportunities we might be allowed to have. You really are clueless, aren't you?

#25 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-20 09:13 AM | Reply

That's racial psychosis Tony. Nobody cares what your skin color is - for a lot of people Jesus Christ taught them not to hate, for others maybe MLK nailed that door shut ("Why We Must Do This Now").

Nearly all working class and middle class whites grew up in mixed race neighborhoods. We know we aren't racist. And it really pisses us off when you Yav us, k?

That isn't a path to victory.

#26 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-06-20 11:15 AM | Reply

"We know we aren't racist."

You voted for Trump. You're okay with racism.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-20 11:19 AM | Reply

And it really pisses us off when you Yav us, k?

I'm a verb now? Awesome!

#28 | Posted by YAV at 2021-06-20 11:28 AM | Reply

Wow, Tom's really in a ranting mood today. Whatsamatta, Metzger, Juneteenth got you all worked up?

"Nearly all working class and middle class whites grew up in mixed race neighborhoods."

Bwhahahahahahaha. You live in Russia.

#29 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-06-20 02:16 PM | Reply

#25 | Posted by tonyroma

I grew up in the Midwest. There are as many redneck prejudiced whites there as in the South.

#30 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-06-20 02:17 PM | Reply

Nearly all working class and middle class whites grew up in mixed race neighborhoods.

The broader growth of race-ethnic minorities compared to whites should, by itself, lead to greater diversity at all levels of geography. Yet at the neighborhood level, long-standing patterns of segregation - while declining since the peak years of the 1960s - still persist.

[T]he white share of populations in the neighborhood in which the average white person resides remains much higher: 79% in 2000 and 71% in 2014 to 2018[1]. In other words, even though both the metropolitan area and the "white-resident neighborhood" population became less white since 2000, the racial gap between the two had not closed.

Moreover, the white share of the population in white-resident neighborhoods is even greater in smaller metropolitan areas and outside metropolitan areas: 79% and 85% white, respectively. This demonstrates that the neighborhood experience of the average white U.S. resident is far different than the national demographic profile would suggest.

www.brookings.edu

Anything else false that you'd like to have shot down Helium...?

#31 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-20 02:49 PM | Reply

I'd like to know what led HeliumRat so self-radicalize on the Internet.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-20 02:56 PM | Reply

Trump.

#33 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-06-20 03:00 PM | Reply

for a lot of people Jesus Christ taught them not to hate,

Jesus saved the day!

Bless him.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-06-20 03:02 PM | Reply

And it really pisses us off when you Yav us, k?
#26 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

"Yav" us?

Is that when he uses links and facts to counter your batshht crazy bullshht?

Must be horrible for you.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-06-20 03:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'd like to know what led HeliumRat so self-radicalize on the Internet.

In a way, the same answer as yesterday - modern day Manifest Destiny with a cognitive dissonance chaser.

In the eyes of many white men, acknowledging even the existence of systems that were created to allow them unearned advantages minimizes what they feel as their own hard-fought-for individual successes. Hence, their belief that merit overcomes any and all adversities because in their eyes the systems aren't biased, they're neutral if one strives hard enough.

When confronted with facts and evidence showing that systems were intentionally designed or re-engineered with inherent bias, they attack those bringing such history into the light because if they allow such narratives to be seen as true, it undermines what they feel are their own accomplishments gained by their own efforts without them having to acknowledge appreciable help from the system - even if it's benign help - that they never earned individually.

The fact that many outside the privileged can and do succeed - often wildly - only reinforces their belief of the systems' fairness - causing them to lash out at the millions unable to overcome centuries of intentionally suppressive laws, strictures, and second class citizenship - for being unable to attain equal levels of accomplishment, instead blaming the lack of individual initiative for such failures.

#36 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-06-20 03:21 PM | Reply

I think the problem convincing someone like HeliumRat that White Privilege is real, is that it's pretty obvious HeliumRat doesn't feel like he's had any advantages in his life.

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." -- Barack Obama

Except in his case, he clings to UFOs and antipathy to CRT.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-20 03:25 PM | Reply

Yeah, Right; so glib, so certain. Must be nice to know the fountainhead of fact and truth.

Tell us great prophet, what is the nature of reality? And why does it suck so much, for so many?

Certainty is akin to blasphemy, in the secular world. Smug generalities don't cut it.

These people's pain is real and it will harm us all if not addressed with some actual attempt at understanding it.

#38 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-06-20 04:17 PM | Reply

'Tell us great prophet, what is the nature of reality? And why does it suck so much, for so many?"

Listen up. I'm only going to say this a million times: Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-06-20 04:31 PM | Reply

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