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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, July 19, 2021

Juan Williams, The Hill: What happens if President Biden, facing a new surge in COVID, asks people to start wearing masks again? ... The Republican Party -- and former President Trump -- will exploit public frustration to stir up votes in the 2022 midterms. They will exaggerate public anger and sound economic alarms. Their goal will be to amplify the backlash against any renewed safety measures as a campaign issue.

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From the beginning of the COVID crisis, the Republicans have been more concerned about using COVID as a political tool to get [re-]elected, instead of being concerned about the health of Americans.

Why does anyone think they will change their tune so late in the game?

The Republicans have shown their lack of concern for Americans dying, to the point that it is ingrained in their base.

The Republicans want power, regardless of how many Americans are killed in their quest.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 12:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

From the beginning of the COVID crisis, the Republicans have been more concerned about using COVID as a political tool to get [re-]elected, instead of being concerned about the health of Americans.

#1 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

hence my growing belief that Republicans are rooting for the pandemic. They want the country to fail, seeing the agony to be at their advantage.

This very morning on this very blog, I spoke with a man who argued that a million plus new American COVID deaths was no big deal. Completely acceptable. Only fascist Trumpian politics and fascist Trumpian culture can inspire that level of barbarism.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 12:24 PM | Reply

LAMP

I don't think Trumpers realize that absolute power corrupts absolutely. And that they are also the intended victims.

Votes for Trump DO NOT buy them special consideration.

#3 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-19 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Votes for Trump DO NOT buy them special consideration.

#3 | POSTED BY TWINPAC

But that's what many of them think. Trump is an unloving, selfish, vicious god. Trumpites often believe that it will be someone else who burns their first-born alive in order to propitiate him.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 12:27 PM | Reply

They're not even reckless. It's a plan. They're PRO COVID now. Better to spread a pandemic than to have things improve while biden is in office.

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 12:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Supposedly.

99% of the people currently dying are the unvaccinated.

It seems this problem is taking care of itself.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-19 12:46 PM | Reply

-It seems this problem is taking care of itself.

Man, that is just cold-blooded. And you guys whine to me about how insensitive I am.

I would NEVER say something like that.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 12:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

#6 I would.

These people are killing other people on purpose.

What does that make them?

Are you pro murder of innocents, or pro letting murderers murder each other? Because murderers are going to murder no matter how much you ask them to stop murdering. We've discovered that over the past year or so.

#8 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-07-19 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#7 that is

#9 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-07-19 12:58 PM | Reply

that is just cold-blooded.

No admonishment for the Republican politicians who lie to their constituents about the dangers of the vaccine?

Which is weird. Considering they're killing their own supporters.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-19 01:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Literally Eberly, the Republican platform is basically the seven deadly sins at this point.

#11 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-07-19 01:08 PM | Reply

-No admonishment for the Republican politicians who lie to their constituents about the dangers of the vaccine?

no...go right ahead. I'm not referring to them.

I'm referring to the people who are going to contract, spread and die from COVID....which you seem to still believe will be virtually all Trumpers.

I disagree. I think you'll be singing a different tune soon.

#12 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"which you seem to still believe will be virtually all Trumpers."

Whites outnumber blacks about 5:1 in this country.

Unvaccinated Trumpers outnumber unvaccinated blacks, maybe 3:1 you figure?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:18 PM | Reply

13

If I tried to "figure" nobody would believe me. I'll gladly trust what Kaiser or some other reputable organization says.

At the end of the day, we'll be comparing these numbers and stats from this new strain.

Right now, it's all the rage on the news because of the 4 states with most cases......we'll see where this heads.

Keep in mind, I'm not in charge of anything. I don't decide who gets the virus.

It's as if posters like you think I'm a factor in this with your hostility towards me.

#14 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-It seems this problem is taking care of itself.

Man, that is just cold-blooded. And you guys whine to me about how insensitive I am.

I would NEVER say something like that.

#7 | Posted by eberly at

How is it cold blooded to hope for the death of people who are actively harming and killing others?

Anti covid vaxxers are helping this pandemic thrive, mutate, and kill more people. It's not unreasonable to hate them and wish they were gone.

#15 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 01:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Having deployed their strategy of killing their electoral base, GOP legislators in many Red states will soon have to allow dead people to vote, or to have the elected representative in the district where the voter is buried to vote by proxy for whomever the representative chooses. So long as the original voter is a white 'Christian', and preferably male...

#16 | Posted by catdog at 2021-07-19 01:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If I tried to "figure" nobody would believe me."

You sell insurance, which is a numbers game.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:29 PM | Reply

"It's as if posters like you think I'm a factor in this with your hostility towards me."

Again,
You're hostile to not blaming people.
But Public Health doesn't work that way.
Public Health isn't Republican politics.
It's pretty much the opposite, and that's what you keep tripping over.

This isn't like insurance, where you get to refuse a claim if somebody didn't pencil whip a checkbox on a clipboard.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:34 PM | Reply

@#13 ... you figure? ...

I figure it differently.

Those who are unvaccinated are little more than walking petri dishes for the virus, giving it fertile grounds to reproduce and create new variants.

My concern is that eventually a variant may emerge that is able to circumvent the current antibodies possessed by those who have had COVID-19 and those who are vaccinated for it.

If such a variant does occur, we'd be back to square one, for the most part. A trip back to Spring 2020....

So far, the vaccines have been quite resilient when faced with the variants. I hope that resiliency continues.

That's what I figure...

(as I watch the number of hospitalized COVID patients in Connecticut nearly double in the past week to 44)


#19 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 01:34 PM | Reply

"How is it cold blooded to hope for the death of people who are actively harming and killing others?"

How are they harming and killing others?

Themselves? Possibly. But when other people choose to expose themselves to other people...that's a choice.

#20 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 01:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-How is it cold blooded to hope for the death of people who are actively harming and killing others?

fair enough, smart guy.

I'll remember this next time we're talking about gun violence in inner cities, drug dealers, etc.

And for those of you who believe this is an orchestrated strategy to kill people.....do you think the GOP would engage in this unless they thought it would kill more opponents than supporters?

If they're that diabolical and sociopathic....then they would be proceeding with the end in mind....to kill more democrats than their own base.

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-You're hostile to not blaming people.

like who?

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:38 PM | Reply

-How is it cold blooded to hope for the death of people who are actively harming and killing others?

are you including minorities in that group who don't trust the medical community?

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:40 PM | Reply

-How are they harming and killing others?

Just wait until this starts moving through the unvaccinated in the cities at a more alarming rate.

they'll all blame billy bob in his trailer 200 miles away for the deaths in the cities.

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 01:42 PM | Reply

And for those of you who believe this is an orchestrated strategy to kill people.....do you think the GOP would engage in this unless they thought it would kill more opponents than supporters?

#21 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That's exactly how the White House predicated its initial response to COVID.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"they'll all blame billy bob in his trailer 200 miles away for the deaths in the cities."

So you'll step up and say it's also our history of institutional racism going back to 1619, a history that Billy Bob refuses to acknowledge, right?

LOL

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:45 PM | Reply

But when other people choose to expose themselves to other people...that's a choice.
#20 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Sure. People can live in the cold vacuum of space. That while thing about families and societies and gravity keeping us down here is Fake News.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:47 PM | Reply

Some members of Jared Kushner's coronavirus task force believed the pandemic would affect Democratic areas worse and may have adjusted accordingly, Vanity Fair reported.

In March and early April, Kushner gathered a team to devise a nationwide coronavirus testing plan.

An public-health expert in regular contact with the team told the magazine that "the political folks" thought a nationwide response was a bad political move.

At the time, outbreaks were worst in Democratic-voting states and cities. The source suggested that some close to Kushner thought it was best to hold back and blame governors.

INSIDER-07/13/2020-Jankoxicz.

#28 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If they're that diabolical and sociopathic....then they would be proceeding with the end in mind....to kill more democrats than their own base.

#21 | POSTED BY EBERLY A

Are they diabolical and sociopathic at all? Because if they are, this whole COVID Holocaust thing becomes plausible.

#29 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 01:50 PM | Reply

"And for those of you who believe this is an orchestrated strategy to kill people"

What's the goal of the strategy, if not to kill people?

What do you think the goal of the strategy to make it so people don't get vaccinated is?

Please just tell us.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What do you think the goal of the strategy to make it so people don't get vaccinated is?"

Absolutely cuts to the chase.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 01:52 PM | Reply

@#20 ... How are they harming and killing others? ...

Those who choose not to be vaccinated are walking petri dishes, providing fertile ground for the virus to reproduce and produce new variants. Variants that could be even more contagious (as we are seeing with the Delta variant), and/or that could even bypass the antibodies we have from the vaccines or from having had COVID-19.

(as I type this, I see that the number of patients in the hospital with COVID here in Connecticut has nearly doubled this past week to 44 due to the delta variant).

#32 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 01:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lamplighter,

Delta seems more contagious, but not necessarily more deadly.

My concern is we get a variant that is 10% fatal, like SARS.

Or 35% fatal, like MERS.

That will really separate the men from the boys.

Happy Extinction!

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 01:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If they're that diabolical and sociopathic....

#21 | POSTED BY EBERLY

My argument from the start is that Trump is both.

I have rarely been so ashamed of this country as I have been over the COVID response of Republicans.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#33 ... Delta seems more contagious, but not necessarily more deadly. ...

Agreed.

... My concern is we get a variant that is 10% fatal, like SARS. ...

Yeah, I missed that part in my comment.

Thanks for catching that.

#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 02:04 PM | Reply

Eberly,
#30 needs your valuable insight.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 02:14 PM | Reply

"Just wait until this starts moving through the unvaccinated in the cities at a more alarming rate."

Which is at least part of the reason, if not the sole reason many people got vaccinated.

And if the vaccines don't work, what's the point?

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 02:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So you'll step up and say it's also our history of institutional racism going back to 1619, a history that Billy Bob refuses to acknowledge, right?"

Racism?

You sure you don't want to attribute this one to capitalism?

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 02:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"What do you think the goal of the strategy to make it so people don't get vaccinated is?"

Why do you care?

If Trump supporters want to forego vaccination at the cost of possibly increasing their risk of COVID, why do you care?

Honestly, I think you might even be a bit happy about it.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 02:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#37 ... And if the vaccines don't work, what's the point? ...

The vaccines are currently working quite well, even against the more contagious Delta variant.

Also, from what I'm seeing on the NYC news is that there are extensive efforts to reach out within NYC to up the vaccination rates. For example, taking down the mass vaccination sites that are no longer needed, and moving to more community-driven campaigns.



#40 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 02:24 PM | Reply

Themselves? Possibly. But when other people choose to expose themselves to other people...that's a choice.
#20 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Still touting this selfish, -------- line?

'It's not my fault I ignored science and followed the advice of a con man politician, it's your fault for coming near me and not living as a complete hermit to give me the "freedom" to act like an inconsiderate selfish ass!'

Yeah, great argument.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 02:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

And if the vaccines don't work, what's the point?

#37 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

They do work, so your "point", whatever it is, is moot.

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 02:48 PM | Reply

-What do you think the goal of the strategy to make it so people don't get vaccinated is?

I'm not the one who believes that IS the strategy.

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 02:48 PM | Reply

If Trump supporters want to forego vaccination at the cost of possibly increasing their risk of COVID, why do you care?

Because if they don't then the continued circulation of variants puts people at risk, people for whom the vaccine didn't work so well or those who can't get it.

Because continued circulation means potentially new variants as more and more vaccinated individuals become evolutionary bottlenecks.

Because this thing ends when R0 is less than 1, something that can't happen if ignorant Trumper morons keep proudly getting COVID.

You still have zero clue that all of this stuff only works at population levels. You're so stuck in me me me me me mode you can't even fathom the idea that something requires more than the individual.

#44 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm not the one who believes that IS the strategy.

#43 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You asked the question.

#45 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 02:51 PM | Reply

How are they harming and killing others?

Themselves? Possibly. But when other people choose to expose themselves to other people...that's a choice.

#20 | Posted by madbomber

Serious question - since covid began, how many times have people explained to how vaccinations acheive herd immunity and end the pandemic?

Is something wrong with your brain where this info leaks out every time you hear it? Or are you just pretending not to understand?

#46 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 02:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

If Trump supporters want to forego vaccination at the cost of possibly increasing their risk of COVID, why do you care?

Honestly, I think you might even be a bit happy about it.

#39 | Posted by madbomber

Because then those trumpers keep the pandemic going, kids have to keep wearing masks in school, people who can't get vaxxed for medical reasons keep getting sick and dying, and the virus gets more chances to mutate into something that our vaccines can't stop.

Any more stupid questions?

How many more times are you going to pretend not to understand this?

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The trumpers who won't vaccinate are trying to save face, not kill people.
They bought into Trump's lies and their false pride won't let them back down.
Many will die due to false pride and ignorance.

Covid was a test. The west failed due to obstinacy and selfish recklessness.

Xi knows China can take over the world by simply weaponizing a contagion.

Great job traitors.

Might as well cancel the military as it isn't necessary anymore, China can takeover anytime they want.

#48 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-19 03:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Coworker insisted this morning that he still will not get the vaccine because "too many people have died after getting the shot". Asked for more information he of course could not provide it. Said he has canceled the trip he was making because they are now requiring face masks, and that he would rather get the virus than the vaccine. Part of me hopes he gets it just to eat his words, but I am honestly not that petty of a person and the rest of me feels guilty for that thought. All I am able to find regarding deaths after the shot have not been directly related to the vaccine and are like 6,080 total deaths out of 340 million people vaccinated...

#49 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-07-19 03:28 PM | Reply

-What do you think the goal of the strategy to make it so people don't get vaccinated is?
I'm not the one who believes that IS the strategy.
#43 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Then what?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 03:40 PM | Reply

"If Trump supporters want to forego vaccination at the cost of possibly increasing their risk of COVID, why do you care?"

If drunks want to drive, why do you care?

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 03:42 PM | Reply

"Because then those trumpers keep the pandemic going, kids have to keep wearing masks in school"

Why would kids wear masks in school?

The seasonal flu is 2-3 times as deadly to those under 18 as COVID is.

It would make more sense to protect kids from the seasonal flu, but I guess that threat, as great as it was, didn't prompt parents to make their kids wear masks.

Here is what should happen. If you're worried about COVID, there are plenty of protective ensembles available on the market. Buy one and leave the rest of us alone.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 03:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"he still will not get the vaccine because "too many people have died after getting the shot". Asked for more information he of course could not provide it."

Where did he hear that? seriously...where did he hear that?

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 03:52 PM | Reply

All I am able to find regarding deaths after the shot have not been directly related to the vaccine and are like 6,080 total deaths out of 340 million people vaccinated...

#49 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

If they're really up to date on talking points they'll point to the 11,000 or so VAERS reports of deaths after vaccination.

What they won't tell you is that most of them are elderly folks who have died on the scale of months after vaccination.

What they don't seem to get is that it's not a vaccine against death. People will continue to die after being vaccinated for reasons entirely unrelated to the vaccine. When you're inoculating millions upon millions of people in a short period of time people will...die.

It's quite amazing how quickly people will throw critical thinking out the window.

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 03:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Might as well cancel the military as it isn't necessary anymore, China can takeover anytime they want."

By releasing a virus that kills off the old and the sickly, leaving those of fighting age completely intact?

Truthfully, it would be better served by China using it against their own population in a crisis to kill off those likely to provide the least benefit for society.

Nursing homes are full of people that, in a time of war, consume a lot of resources while providing very little in return.

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 03:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Why would kids wear masks in school?
The seasonal flu is 2-3 times as deadly to those under 18 as COVID is.

Hey idiot.

IT. IS. NOT. ABOUT. THE. INDIVIDUAL.

Capisce?

If you're worried about COVID, there are plenty of protective ensembles available on the market. Buy one and leave the rest of us alone.

#52 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

In true "C-c-conservative" form the expectation is that everyone else accommodate you and your ignorance.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 03:55 PM | Reply

-People will continue to die after being vaccinated for reasons entirely unrelated to the vaccine

reasonable point. the vaccine doesn't cure someone who is already ailing from something that is putting that person near the end of their life.

#57 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 03:56 PM | Reply

"If drunks want to drive, why do you care?"

If there were a vaccine that protected me from drunk drivers, I wouldn't.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 03:57 PM | Reply

reasonable point. the vaccine doesn't cure someone who is already ailing from something that is putting that person near the end of their life.

#57 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Exactly. Not knowing when and how one dies we of course vaccinate people who will die shortly after by chance.

Using their "logic," I would suggest people stop showering. The number of people who die within a day of taking a shower is immense!

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 03:59 PM | Reply

I was skeptical when COVID starting to become the cause of death of so many folks in nursing homes, I wondered if the mortality numbers were skewed and that the normal number of deaths from heart, cancer, other major factors near the end of life would drop in numbers. Leading me to believe the true mortality caused by COVID was being overreported.

I didn't see national numbers but Kansas numbers were clear.....we weren't overreporting the number of deaths due to COVID. The mortality from the other leading causes of death remained consistent while COVID was added on (not replaced). Overall, Kansas saw a significant increase in the number of deaths in 2020.

There were stories all the time I was hearing about how hospitals were putting cause of death as "COVID" for the money.

It was all in the wind.........

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 04:05 PM | Reply

Hey idiot. IT. IS. NOT. ABOUT. THE. INDIVIDUAL.

Yeah it is. It's the individual that would be required to wear a mask. To...what? protect against a virus that has a readily available vaccine?

Does the vaccine not work?

"In true "C-c-conservative" form the expectation is that everyone else accommodate you and your ignorance."

It's actually the other way around. Puh-puh-puhgressives demanding that those who aren't at risk wear unnecessary PPR so that those who are don't have to.

This makes sense. A teacher who is in a higher risk category wears a protective ensemble, while the students wear what they would like.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 04:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#60

There were a few significant changes.

Another biggie was when the CDC changed it's reporting rule from confirmed COVID cases to Confirmed and probable.

Not sure about the US, but here if you had symptoms of COVID you were directed to go home and self-quarantine for 14 days. No tests were ever accomplished. And it's in the middle of June that you start to see cases in the US start to go up.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-19 04:10 PM | Reply

If you already have poor lung function or heart function and you tax it with COVID, COVID pushing you over the edge is the cause of death.

Death is multi-factoral and usually a fairly complex process of cascading events. Being elderly and having pre-existing conditions simply lowers the threshold to get that cascade rolling.

Taking the logic that existing health issues mean it's not a death due to COVID out to an absurd length would suggest we should never have anything more than "lack of oxygen to the brain" as a cause of death.

#63 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 04:10 PM | Reply

Yeah it is. It's the individual that would be required to wear a mask.

But an individual wearing a mask means nothing. It's only when ENOUGH of a population wears the mask that it becomes effective.

Same with vaccines.

To...what? protect against a virus that has a readily available vaccine?
Does the vaccine not work?

Vaccines aren't magic forcefields.

For the strain(s) that they were developed from the vaccines were exceptionally effective, even preventing the vast vast majority of infections as well as severe illness/hospitalization/death.

Now, because of people refusing to follow guidelines and receive vaccines, we have delta moving through. Because the vaccines weren't tailored to delta, they still do a great job of preventing severe illness/hospitalization/death (90%+), but they no longer induce sterilizing immunity, make vaccinated individuals capable of being infected and spreading it.

That has the effect of not reducing R0 as much as it should and you run the risk of thinking you're protected by might not be either due to poor efficacy of the vaccine in your specific case or waning immunity due to time.

Puh-puh-puhgressives demanding that those who aren't at risk wear unnecessary PPR so that those who are don't have to.

The only reason you say this with a straight face is you're self-centered and can't grasp things at a population level because you don't want to.

That is literally the flaw you exhibit in just about every post you make on this topic.

#64 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 04:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This is the thread where the "personal responsibility" crew argue on behalf of inexcusably irresponsible

You peoples lack of scruples is astonishing

Why do this?

#65 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-07-19 04:16 PM | Reply

Hey madbumbler

It's says right here that Germany requires proof of recovery by all citizens after contracting, (or suspect)
You know, a test

Why lie?

#66 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-07-19 04:23 PM | Reply

#48

Drudgie Nominee for Post of the Year

#67 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-07-19 04:26 PM | Reply

Another way unvaccinated covid patients affect others: when hospitals get overrun with covid patients, people with other serious illnesses are ---- out of luck because their care and treatment is affected. ICU beds aren't a a available for cancer or heart surgery patients etc.

#68 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-19 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.cnn.com

Here it comes.

in a week or so the numbers are going to be bad.

And let me enlighten you all....it won't be bad just in red areas.

which is going to shock some of you because some of you believe this is all about politics and nothing else matters. Some of you also believe the virus cares why you're not vaccinated. You're wrong.

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 04:51 PM | Reply

Why would kids wear masks in school?

The seasonal flu is 2-3 times as deadly to those under 18 as COVID is.

It would make more sense to protect kids from the seasonal flu, but I guess that threat, as great as it was, didn't prompt parents to make their kids wear masks.

Here is what should happen. If you're worried about COVID, there are plenty of protective ensembles available on the market. Buy one and leave the rest of us alone.

#52 | Posted by madbomber

So they don't get their teachers sick. So they don't allow the virus to mutate into something deadlier. This has been explains to you OVER AND OVER. Are you stupid or what?

If you don't to worry about covid anymore - TELL YOUR CULT TO GET VACCINATED. This is no longer the covid pandemic. Now its the republicans pandemic. Your party of morons is the reason we can't fix it now.

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 04:53 PM | Reply

And let me enlighten you all....it won't be bad just in red areas.

which is going to shock some of you because some of you believe this is all about politics and nothing else matters. Some of you also believe the virus cares why you're not vaccinated. You're wrong.

#69 | Posted by eberly

Yeah it'll get bad everywhere again - BECAUSE OF TRUMP AND HIS CULT.

We could have beaten this thing, but trump and his cult prevented that victory. And have now dedicated themselves to helping covid spread as much as possible.

Their pathetic brains have one program - FIGHT LIBERALS. Liberals want to stop a pandemic, so republicans are now officially PRO PANDEMIC.

#71 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-So they don't get their teachers sick.

I thought vaccinated people have a really really low chance of getting sick. testing positive...yes, but they are 99%+ mild symptons or no symptoms.

#72 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 04:55 PM | Reply

This makes sense. A teacher who is in a higher risk category wears a protective ensemble, while the students wear what they would like.

#61 | Posted by madbomber

No what makes sense is the selfish morons who wont help fight a pandemic can live in the woods or in their homes by themselves, and if they want to participate in society, then they have to help society stop the pandemic by wearing a mask and getting the vax.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-So they don't get their teachers sick.

I thought vaccinated people have a really really low chance of getting sick. testing positive...yes, but they are 99%+ mild symptons or no symptoms.

#72 | Posted by eberly

The longer we let this thing float around and mutate the sooner we'll create a version we can't stop.

Is that what you want?

If it weren't for your moronic party it would be almost over by now.

#74 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 04:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

74

At least you're making it clear what you really want.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:06 PM | Reply

At least you're making it clear what you really want.

#75 | Posted by eberly

Yeah I want the pandemic to end.

Why isn't that what YOU want?

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 05:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Where did he hear that? seriously...where did he hear that?
#53 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Interviewer: "How many people have gotten seriously injured or died after receiving the covid vaccines? So, do you have the answer to that question, senator?"

Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.): "Well, I can report what's being reported on the VAERS system. ... It's an imperfect system. In general, the complaint is a very small percentage of adverse effects actually get reported, and so you have to take this with a grain of salt, but according to the VAERS system, we are over 3,000 deaths of, after, within 30 days of taking the vaccine. About 40 percent of those occur on Day Zero, One or Two."

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 05:10 PM | Reply

-Yeah I want the pandemic to end.

nobody will ever say you aren't funny, speak.

well...that's not true...almost nobody here thinks you're funny....but I do.

#78 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:15 PM | Reply

Nursing homes are full of people that, in a time of war, consume a lot of resources while providing very little in return.
#55 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Very little in return?

Health care is 18% of our GDP.

Close the nursing homes, you'll cause mass death and mass unemployment.

You really don't understand anything about economics, or health care, or infectious disease.

As for "in a time of war," you could say the same for wounded soldiers. Anyone being evac'd to Landstuhl may never be a soldier again. What a colossal waste of time and resources to not let them die on the battlefield.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 05:16 PM | Reply

Republicans literally prefer to help the virus mutate into something we can't stop than have the pandemic end during a democrat presidency.

#80 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 05:16 PM | Reply

-Yeah I want the pandemic to end.

nobody will ever say you aren't funny, speak.

well...that's not true...almost nobody here thinks you're funny....but I do.

#78 | Posted by eberly

What's funny about that?

#81 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 05:16 PM | Reply

It's fun watching you run around begging for attention.

"Yeah I want the pandemic to end."

yeah, sorry...no way.

"Why isn't that what YOU want?"

That actually is what I want and you know it. Instead, you're interested in trolling and screaming "Trump and his cult!!!" and "your party blah blah blah" as though it's every going to rile me.

You're the riled one, boy. Remember that.

And THAT is what you want. You don't give 2 ----- about ending the pandemic. You just need this hostility and anger in your life so you have someone to blame for your ---- sandwich you eat each day.

Try telling us the truth about something here someday, speak.

#82 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:25 PM | Reply

"Yeah I want the pandemic to end."

yeah, sorry...no way.

"Why isn't that what YOU want?"

That actually is what I want and you know it. Instead, you're interested in trolling and screaming "Trump and his cult!!!" and "your party blah blah blah" as though it's every going to rile me.

You're the riled one, boy. Remember that.

And THAT is what you want. You don't give 2 ----- about ending the pandemic. You just need this hostility and anger in your life so you have someone to blame for your ---- sandwich you eat each day.

Try telling us the truth about something here someday, speak.

#82 | Posted by eberly a

Post anything I've ever said that indicates I don't want the pandemic to end.

I'll wait.

Then we can have a talk about who posts the truth.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 05:31 PM | Reply

Eberly is dug in deeper than a --- on Iwo Jima.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#84 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-19 05:33 PM | FLAG: Racist

#85 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:40 PM | Reply

-The longer we let this thing float around and mutate the sooner we'll create a version we can't stop.

Let's get back to the teachers....is a vaccinated teacher at a significant risk of getting sick from an unvaccinated student?

someone feel free to give speak a lifeline here......he probably doesn't want to answer.

#86 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:45 PM | Reply

I was skeptical when COVID starting to become the cause of death of so many folks in nursing homes...

#60 | Posted by eberly

I was hearing that BS about nursing homes from the deniers as early as April last year. Turns out the numbers were UNDER REPORTED in New York state (the early epicenter) at least and significantly so. In fact COVID deaths early on at least were extremely under reported. I heard things like "She just died from old age" from people when 50 people in a Nursing home died in a two week span. Note: That is NOT normal. Sure her old age and poor health contributed but it was the COVID that killed her...

As for they were labeling things "COVID" for the money. I suspect that is more like GOP claims of voter fraud than reality. I haven't seen anyone (not to mention anyone that might be seen as reliable) produce any evidence to back this claim up. It was also a very early claim.

#87 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-19 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#86 | Posted by eberly

Your question is not as straight forward as you think. Define "significant" but it would seem there is what is to me significant risk to a vaccinated teacher getting COVID yes. Is it dramatically less than an unvaccinated teacher? My answer is also yes.

What about the children who are not vaccinated getting it from an unvaccinated teacher?

#88 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-19 05:48 PM | Reply

-What about the children who are not vaccinated getting it from an unvaccinated teacher?

well, the experts here who have weighed in have determined that it's 2 murderers trying to kill each other.

#89 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 05:53 PM | Reply

"FLAG: Racist"

No, Eberly.
It's the truth.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 05:57 PM | Reply

well, the experts here who have weighed in have determined that it's 2 murderers trying to kill each other.
#89 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Except children below the age of 12 CAN'T get vaccinated.

Don't go down the Gracie road. It's unbecoming.

#91 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 05:59 PM | Reply

-The longer we let this thing float around and mutate the sooner we'll create a version we can't stop.

Let's get back to the teachers....is a vaccinated teacher at a significant risk of getting sick from an unvaccinated student?

someone feel free to give speak a lifeline here......he probably doesn't want to answer.

#86 | Posted by eberly

Nice try. Before we move on to anything else, we're going to deal with your accusation that I want the pandemic to continue, and discuss who has a problem with the truth.

Still waiting to see how you came up with that accusation.

#92 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 06:02 PM | Reply

#53 | POSTED BY EBERLY

IDK, I told him he was blatantly wrong and asked where he got that information. He brushed it off and said its all over the news. I asked what news he watches and he was still evasive. I looked for information after that on the web and all I could find was the numbers I put in my post. I literally only believe a third of what he says on any given day, but this really blew my mind.

#93 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-07-19 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Don't go down the Gracie road.

That could be a Country song...

#94 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-07-19 06:10 PM | Reply

"Let's get back to the teachers....is a vaccinated teacher at a significant risk of getting sick from an unvaccinated student?"

Fact is, thus us an emerging and evolving disease so we don't have a great answer to that question.

That being said, schools as ourbreak sources for other contagious diseases is a well documented phenomenon, from measles to common colds and even to cooties (head lice).

What number or percentage of vaccinated teachers are you okay with getting sick from an unvaccinated student? In other words, what number is "significant" to you?

And if you can't answer that question, then what are you really asking?

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 06:12 PM | Reply

-Except children below the age of 12 CAN'T get vaccinated.

You're right.....I know.

#96 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:12 PM | Reply

-Before we move on to anything else, we're going to deal with your accusation that I want the pandemic to continue,

Are you saying you take exception to being assigned a position you don't actually have?

what a pity........LOL

So...nobody wants to answer my question regarding a vaccinated teacher.

everybody is an expert until you ask a real question. How about you JPW?

I mean....speaksnoofy has no ------- clue but he's here all day every day with his smarts.....

#97 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:19 PM | Reply

-Your question is not as straight forward as you think.

The question is very straight forward...perhaps the answer isn't very straight forward.

#98 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:20 PM | Reply

but he's here all day every day with his smarts.....

I work?

I'm not sure what question specifically you're referring to. There's so much -------- thrown around on this topic it's impossible to keep track of it.

#99 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 06:23 PM | Reply

-your accusation that I want the pandemic to continue

Can't read, can you?

I didn't say you want it to continue...I said you don't give 2 ----- about ending the pandemic.

You're indifferent to that problem, IOW. Not that you want it to continue.

#100 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:24 PM | Reply

JPW,

is a vaccinated teacher at a significant risk of getting sick from an unvaccinated student?

#101 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:25 PM | Reply

is a vaccinated teacher at a significant risk of getting sick from an unvaccinated student?

This one?

With delta yes, they can get infected from an unvaccinated student.

Will they experience severe disease? Likely not.

#102 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 06:25 PM | Reply

102

thanks. we're seeing vaccinated folks test positive but a very small % getting pretty sick.

#103 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 06:27 PM | Reply

Correct. Likely people for whom vaccination was/is less effective (immunosuppressed, elderly, genetics ect)

#104 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-19 06:29 PM | Reply

-Before we move on to anything else, we're going to deal with your accusation that I want the pandemic to continue,

Are you saying you take exception to being assigned a position you don't actually have?

#97 | Posted by eberly

I'm saying it takes one hell of a liar or moron to assign a position to someone for which there is zero evidence.

So do you have evidence? Or are you just a liar? Or just a moron?

#105 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 06:30 PM | Reply

hanks. we're seeing vaccinated folks test positive but a very small % getting pretty sick.
#103 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Holy ---- dude.
Take out the word vaccinated and that's been the story all along.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-19 06:35 PM | Reply

"I'm saying it takes one hell of a liar or moron to assign a position to someone for which there is zero evidence."

I'll quote you and others here

"If the shoe fits!" Or "if you don't like being accused of it, don't act like it"

See how that works, you ------- troll?

#107 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-19 07:22 PM | Reply

How did Trump influence this group so much?

Answer.....he didn't. They have their doubts for other reasons.

POSTED BY EBERLY

There are no rational arguments against vaccination.

There are misinformed arguments, and fear-based arguments, and yes----Hillbilly Trump Fascist arguments.

There are an awful lot of sick people in America, and I'm not talking COVID. Talking sick in the head. The Republican Party is in the grip of mass hysteria and as a whole is crazy, murderous, and self-destructive.

Time for everyone to decide if you're a barbarian or a civilized human being.

#108 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-19 07:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hospital in Jacksonville, FL thinks they will break their record for number of COVID patients today, last set in Jan during the last outbreak, and before vaccines were available -- @gabegutierrez reports on @MSNBC" Jesse Rodriguez (@JesseRodriguez) July 19, 2021

#109 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-19 09:10 PM | Reply

The GOP is criminal period. Full stop!

#110 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-07-19 09:34 PM | Reply

See how that works, you ------- troll?

#107 | Posted by eberly

I said I wanted covid to end.

You said I didn't.

You can't provide evidence so you're throwing a fit.

Who's the troll loser?

#111 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-19 09:43 PM | Reply

Either Pucker Carlson is using eberlys material, or eberly is simply imitating Carlson because these two are yelping the exact same tune. Word for word almost

Didn't someone write "Meta moron"

#112 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-07-19 10:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Eberly,

I can't help but notice this and the vaccine hesitancy topics are the most off the fence I've ever seen you.

A POTUS and his party intentionally scuttle a public health response and you finally pull that fence post out of your ass to make sure we know it's not all of them.

#113 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 12:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I've quoted this doctor before but not in a while:

"So just understand, every one on this screen will know a COVID-related event, either in yourself, or your family, or your colleagues in the days ahead. If you haven't had it happen already, it's going to happen. There won't be any blue or red states anymore. There won't be blue or red counties. It will be COVID color."
www.yahoo.com

"We will all know somebody--we will all love somebody--who will die from this disease. Eventually there won't be any blue states or red states. There won't be any blue cities or red rural areas. It'll all be COVID colored."
mcknightpediatrics.com

Dr. Michael Osterholm, founder and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota

Really hope he is wrong about everybody loving someone who is going to die of covid.

#114 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 12:28 AM | Reply

My daughter and five of her friend are currently sick with COVID. They are all fully vaccinated, young, and otherwise healthy except my daughter who is severely immunocompromised. Their symptoms are mild, but worse than most people i know who got sick before vaccines were available. The vector was an unvaccinated child.

We are not hearing reports like this, clusters of sick vaccinated people getting sick. Why not? Is that "misinformation" that doesn't follow the narrative? If you believe Biden's "This is only a pandemic for the unvaccinated" Watch out ... ..

#115 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 03:09 AM | Reply

#115 | Posted by Miranda7

You can thank your lucky stars your daughter is vaccinated or she might be fighting for her life in a drug induced coma while a ventilator breathes for her.

There will, of course, be breakthrough cases because no vaccine is 100% effective. But getting vaccinated means you won't get as sick or die from it.

Now, what are you whining about?

#116 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-20 03:16 AM | Reply

#114 It looks like in the next 5 years almost everyone will get Covid. The vaccinated will not get very sick, but they will spread it to the unvaccinated as social distancing ends. If a more deadly variant emerges, the death toll will be staggering, especially in poor countries without vaccines.

#117 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-20 03:19 AM | Reply

Fox has quietly implemented its own version of a vaccine passport while its top personalities attack them

Tucker Carlson has called the idea of vaccine passports the medical equivalent of "Jim Crow" laws. And other Fox News personalities have spent months both trafficking in anti-vaccine rhetoric and assailing the concept of showing proof of vaccination status.

But Fox Corporation, the right-wing talk channel's parent company, has quietly implemented the concept of a vaccine passport as workers slowly return back to the company's offices.

Fox employees, including those who work at Fox News, received an email, obtained by CNN Business, from the company's Human Resources department in early June that said Fox had "developed a secure, voluntary way for employees to self-attest their vaccination status."

#118 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-20 03:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

American Unity,
She's not out of the woods yet. She is very sick and her underlying condition is flaring. She could have permanent organ damage. Her friends have had symptoms typical for UNvaccinated people their age. Like a week long can't get out of bed cold.

I am very pro vaccine. My point is the vaccines aren't working in MANY cases and we need to be aware of that. Spreading through a cluster of now 6 vaccinated young people is more than isolated "breakthrough". I want to know why we aren't hearing more about cases like this. Because it doesn't fit the narrative? If I told my daughters story on a Facebook would it be flagged as disinformation?

Biden campaigned on the promise of a comprehensive COVID plan. Throughout the campaign I was asking out loud "why don't you share it with us NOW, people are dying". It turns out his whole plan was to wait on the vaccine and get it out to the people. That was Trumps plan. What else has BIDEN done about COVID? Now he's claiming it's "only a pandemic amongst the unvaccinated", and I think we are going to see very soon that is not true.

#119 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 08:23 AM | Reply

"If I told my daughters story on a Facebook would it be flagged as disinformation?"

I doubt it in light of the posts I read by these two doctors:

twitter.com

twitter.com

#120 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 08:29 AM | Reply

Again, with the GOP, other than making
sure the rich stay wealthy and pay little
to no taxes, the overarching drive of the
GOP, is to 'win at all costs!' Even if
it means sacrificing a few of their own,
to make the opposing POTUS look bad.

It is a Sick Puppy Cult all the way.
Don't know how anyone could stand to belong.

You basically have to admit to yourself that
you have ZERO moral fiber, that you stand for
nothing but greed, racism, power, and corruption.
The most base of human attributes.

But hey!
You do you Tiger!

#121 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-07-20 08:29 AM | Reply

"She's not out of the woods yet. She is very sick and her underlying condition is flaring. She could have permanent organ damage."

Very sad news. Is she in the hospital/ICU?

#122 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 08:30 AM | Reply

Yeah it is. It's the individual that would be required to wear a mask. To...what? protect against a virus that has a readily available vaccine?

When the ------------- are all vaccinated then your comment might be valid.

#123 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-20 08:31 AM | Reply

"Is she in the hospital/ICU?"

If so, I hope you can visit her. I know what it is like not to be able to visit a hospitalized loved one with covid. Heartbreaking, unbearable.

#124 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 08:33 AM | Reply

It turns out his whole plan was to wait on the vaccine and get it out to the people. That was Trumps plan. What else has BIDEN done about COVID? Now he's claiming it's "only a pandemic amongst the unvaccinated", and I think we are going to see very soon that is not true.

#119 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7 AT 2021-07-20 08:23 AM | REPLY | FLAG:EYE ROLL

You are full of it. What Trumptidumped did was deny it tell us repeatedly it would go away by April. Cl0wns need to stop lying! Democrats and Republcl0wns are NOT alike. Deny lie deny lie deny lie is what Trumptidumped did.

Trumptidumped had a year after the first cases showed up on our shore to do something outstanding... instead he tried to keep people from coming home to US soil... in order to fudge the numbers... because what he does is fudge numbers! The ineptitude kept flowing like bad water in Flint.

He blamed the numbers on testing!

Here's the obvious... It didn't matter who was in charge... Based on what scientists know about pandemics everyone had to wait on a vaccine to mitigate the effects... big doh. It's not like Trumptibukerboi could do anything else or instigate anything special... btw other nations were also working on vaccines as well. It was not an American initiative or edict by Trumptidumped.

It is a pandemic among the unvaccinated now...(you pigs need to own that)... and with that everyone is also informed that the unvaccinated one's who catch it are the stew pot for more virulent strains. It's the science of virology.

What would you suggest from your armchair? What do you think Biden is not doing that the Orange Oinker would be doing?

#125 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2021-07-20 08:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It turns out his whole plan was to wait on the vaccine and get it out to the people. That was Trumps plan.

#119 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Either you're a liar or you keep your head deliberately in a sack.

There is little or no evidence Trump had any interest i n actually getting the vaccines out to anyone.

Meanwhile, Trump supporters continue to defend infection, which should give you a clue.

#126 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 09:02 AM | Reply

My daughter and five of her friend are currently sick with COVID. They are all fully vaccinated,

#115 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7 AT

This never happened.

#127 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 09:04 AM | Reply

My daughter and five of her friend are currently sick with COVID. They are all fully vaccinated.

#115 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Trump supporters are notorious for making stuff up on the fly to make some "point".

Breakthrough infections after vaccinations are very rare. Very. Rare. But you just happen to know a "cluster" of six.

Donald Trump and you Trumpites were stuck during the worst part of this plague with just letting it burn through the population. As far as I can tell, you're still stuck there.

#128 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 09:09 AM | Reply

#115 ps I doubt it, but you may need receipts.

#129 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 09:18 AM | Reply

As Gracie said on yesterday's nooner: anyone can claim to recall anything for political purposes. Ditto any claim really.

#130 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 09:21 AM | Reply

"But an individual wearing a mask means nothing. It's only when ENOUGH of a population wears the mask that it becomes effective."

Not if you're wearing this mask.

www.galls.com

If you're at risk, this is the mask you should be wearing. It's what I would be wearing if I were concerned. Not so much the face diaper.

#131 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 12:16 PM | Reply

"The only reason you say this with a straight face is you're self-centered and can't grasp things at a population level because you don't want to."

Selfish?

If I were at risk, I'd be looking to ensure I was taking care of myself, rather than expecting everyone around me to sacrifice unnecessarily on my behalf.

#132 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 12:18 PM | Reply

"It's says right here that Germany requires proof of recovery by all citizens after contracting, (or suspect) You know, a test."

Partially true.

You can use an official proof of recovery. It's one of three documents that allow for freedom of movement/travel.

The other two being a vaccination card or a negative test.

#133 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 12:22 PM | Reply

"The only reason you say this with a straight face is you're self-centered and can't grasp things at a population level because you don't want to."

Let's do this.

There are 159 million fully vaccinated people in the United States. There have been 5492 confirmed cases of fully vaccinated people catching COVID. That's a .0000045. One out of every 222k vaccinated people. There have been 1,063 vaxxed that have died of COVID. That's a .0000007. One out of every 4.25M people. you're four times more likely to be struck by lightning.

So the odds of someone who has been vaccinated having a problem once is insignificant. It doesn't even get close to cracking the top 15. In fact the seasonal flu kills 41k per year. It's entirely possible that COVID ends up being as deadly or possibly less deadly than the seasonal flu.

And if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice. And if you're still scared, you can spend some of your free government money on an M50 gas mask.

#134 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 12:38 PM | Reply

Feel free to check the maths. Those are some big numbers. You normally don't have to go out to the tens of millions with running odds.

#135 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 12:39 PM | Reply

It turns out his whole plan was to wait on the vaccine and get it out to the people. That was Trumps plan.

#119 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Why did trump get vaccinated in secret?

#136 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 01:10 PM | Reply

And if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice. And if you're still scared, you can spend some of your free government money on an M50 gas mask.

#134 | Posted by madbomber

Another day, another attempt by madbomber to pretend this hasn't been explained to him a thousand times - UNVAXXED PEOPLE HELP THE VIRUS MUTATE.

Tattoo that backwards on your forehead so you read it every time you look in the mirror. Apparently that's the only way you'll learn it.

#137 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 01:12 PM | Reply

www.politifact.com

"Our ruling
Maddow said, "While he was president, President Trump never encouraged Americans to get vaccinated."

Trump expressed confidence in the vaccines and vaccination in many different ways " on Twitter and in public remarks " touting their life-saving potential and saying they would be safe and available to all.

We rate Maddow's claim False."

#138 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 01:18 PM | Reply

"you're four times more likely to be struck by lightning."

Do the math.... Two years ago you were infinitely more likely to be struck by lightning.

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 01:19 PM | Reply

"While he was president, President Trump..."

What has he done for me lately?

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 01:20 PM | Reply

It's what I would be wearing if I were concerned. Not so much the face diaper.

#131 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Because being selfish your concern is only catching it. Not spreading. All your arguments center around a justified lack of responsibility on your part. It's their fault if they catch it from you because they chose to be near you.

You don't in any way feel like you're part of the problem.

And "face diaper"? I knew you were an idiot Trumper just straining to be let out.

If I were at risk, I'd be looking to ensure I was taking care of myself, rather than expecting everyone around me to sacrifice unnecessarily on my behalf.

#132 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

See above.

It's entirely possible that COVID ends up being as deadly or possibly less deadly than the seasonal flu.

Yeah, when it becomes an endemic seasonal virus. The key is getting there with as little damage as possible.

And if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice.

Because it doesn't end with them.

Forget it. I'm done arguing with somebody who can't see past the end of their own nose.

#141 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:20 PM | Reply

Vaccinated individuals that become infected help the virus mutate more rapidly.

#142 | Posted by FSUknowit at 2021-07-20 01:20 PM | Reply

It's what I would be wearing if I were concerned. Not so much the face diaper.

#131 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Because being selfish your concern is only catching it. Not spreading. All your arguments center around a justified lack of responsibility on your part. It's their fault if they catch it from you because they chose to be near you.

You don't in any way feel like you're part of the problem.

And "face diaper"? I knew you were an idiot Trumper just straining to be let out.

If I were at risk, I'd be looking to ensure I was taking care of myself, rather than expecting everyone around me to sacrifice unnecessarily on my behalf.

#132 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

See above.

It's entirely possible that COVID ends up being as deadly or possibly less deadly than the seasonal flu.

Yeah, when it becomes an endemic seasonal virus. The key is getting there with as little damage as possible.

And if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice.

Because it doesn't end with them.

Forget it. I'm done arguing with somebody who can't see past the end of their own nose.

#143 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:21 PM | Reply

"Vaccinated individuals that become infected help the virus mutate more rapidly."

More rapidly than what? Unvaccinated individuals who become infected? Link?

#144 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 01:22 PM | Reply

"And if someone chooses not to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----."

Why stop there?

You've never stopped there before.

If someone chooses to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice to not isolate.

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 01:22 PM | Reply

Big problem with your math Madbomber are the unknowns.
Every time the disease mutates, the math changes.

You want to live like that, playing roulette every time
there is a mutation? Are you big conservative men THAT
afraid of a little needle?

Or, do you want to do the stand up thing and help everyone
out, and you know, just get the fecking shot!

#146 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-07-20 01:24 PM | Reply

How big of a deal is it that vaccinated people still spread the virus to the unvaccinated people?

Is that happening at an alarming rate?

If so...it's the fault of the unvaccinated, 100%.

#147 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 01:26 PM | Reply

"Do the math.... Two years ago you were infinitely more likely to be struck by lightning."

The current odds of a vaccinated person dying of COVID is 1 in 4.25 million.

The odds of dying from a lightning strike are 1 in 1.1 million.

#148 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 01:37 PM | Reply

"The current odds"

Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Don't you know anything?

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 01:40 PM | Reply

"Because being selfish your concern is only catching it. Not spreading. All your arguments center around a justified lack of responsibility on your part. It's their fault if they catch it from you because they chose to be near you."

You're ------- crazy.

Literally crazy.

I am literally, 100% stating that the personal responsibility outweighs the social responsibility of the masses. Especially in a case like this where it is so easy to take personal responsibility

What you are saying is that, rather than an individual taking responsibility for their own health and well-being, they demand that others do it. So they don't have to. And in this case doing it a manner that is far, far, FAR less effective than taking personal responsibility. Unless you're beleive that the face diaper offers protection equal to that of the M50 CBRNE

Actually...considering the source, it's not crazy. It's progressive. Another example on how it is wrong to expect people to take care of themselves when there are others who should be made to sacrifice to do it for them.

#150 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 01:43 PM | Reply

How big of a deal is it that vaccinated people still spread the virus to the unvaccinated people?
Is that happening at an alarming rate?
If so...it's the fault of the unvaccinated, 100%.

#147 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It keeps prolonging this.

If we were past the herd immunity threshold then it wouldn't matter so much because the chances of a vaccinated person spreading it to an unvaccinated person is pretty low.

The issue with vaccinated individuals being potential carriers is they likely won't know it.

#151 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:43 PM | Reply

"What you are saying is that, rather than an individual taking responsibility for their own health and well-being, they demand that others do it. So they don't have to."

No, that's what pre-COVID anti-vaxxers do.

They rely on others for their herd immunity, while not contributing to herd immunity.

And today's vaccine refusers are on the same path. We just haven't achieved herd immunity levels via vaccinated people and recovered people yet.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What you are saying is that, rather than an individual taking responsibility for their own health and well-being, they demand that others do it. So they don't have to.

In correct. The problem with turds in the punch bowl is everyone's punch tastes like ----.

Unless you're beleive that the face diaper offers protection equal to that of the M50 CBRNE

If two people are in a room wearing a "face diaper" (I see you've gone full idiot...that's unfortunate) it's about as effective as wearing that absurd mask.

And that's why I think you're selfish. You would rather some walk around in masks rated for biological warfare just so you don't have to do a thing. It's a ------- cloth mask, dude. Stop being such a -----.

Another example on how it is wrong to expect people to take care of themselves when there are others who should be made to sacrifice to do it for them.
#150 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You're too wrapped up in yourself to even see my point.

Don't worry, from now on I'll just treat you like the poor victimized little soul you think you are.

#153 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:48 PM | Reply

"Yeah, when it becomes an endemic seasonal virus. The key is getting there with as little damage as possible."

Are we there yet?

The odds of a vaccinated person dying of COVID is 1 in 4.25 million

The odds of a person dying of seasonal flu is 1 in ~7.8k.

I don't have data on how many vaccinated individuals died from the seasonal flu after receiving a vaccine, but during the 2018-2019 flu season, around 45% of adults received a flu shot.

#154 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 01:50 PM | Reply

"If someone chooses to get vaccinated, and gets sick or dies from it...who gives a ----. It was their choice to not isolate."

Truer words have never been spoken by you.

#155 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 01:50 PM | Reply

Do you really not understand how childish you sound, Mad?

You are literally obstinately opposing anything at all that you might have to do to even help those around you even a little bit. Even something so simple as throwing a cloth mask on when in an enclosed public space.

That is literally nothing. Nothing of significance. But yet you still can't be bothered.

Tell me, do you tolerate this level of self-centered obstinance in the airmen underneath you? Would your level of Cartman-esque "whatev-uh, I do what I want" go well for unit cohesion and mission success?

#156 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:52 PM | Reply

"Big problem with your math Madbomber are the unknowns. Every time the disease mutates, the math changes."

That's pretty much true of all diseases.

Using that logic, measures meant to limit the spread of COVID should become permanent. The seasonal flu first came to visit as the Spanish Flu, which was far deadlier than COVID has been, and to a much broader demographic.

If you're worried about mutations, that's one to worry about.

Not to mention strains, like Nipah, which if set loose would potentially be far deadlier than anything this planet has seen.

When it comes to viruses, COVID is a bit of a cream puff. Many more are not so forgiving.

#157 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 01:56 PM | Reply

Are we there yet?

No, which is why the anti-vaxx crowd is so infuriating. We could be. By winter.

The odds of a vaccinated person dying of COVID is 1 in 4.25 million
The odds of a person dying of seasonal flu is 1 in ~7.8k.
I don't have data on how many vaccinated individuals died from the seasonal flu after receiving a vaccine, but during the 2018-2019 flu season, around 45% of adults received a flu shot.

#154 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Yes, and most of those who die are either a. the very young who can't get vaccinated or b. the very elderly for whom vaccination doesn't work very well.

The likely driver of the disparity above is simple number of infections. The number of people infected with influenza every year is simply lower than SARS-CoV-2, which shouldn't be surprising.

#158 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:56 PM | Reply

>When it comes to viruses, COVID is a bit of a cream puff. Many more are not so forgiving.

#157 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Highly pathogenic viruses tend to be self-limiting.

Take SARS for example.

The outbreaks were smaller because when you go it you were so ill you a. knew you were sick so there wasn't asymptomatic spread and b. you felt like ---- so you stayed home. The severity of the disease worked against itself, which is why viruses tend to become less pathogenic as the adapt to new hosts.

#159 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 01:59 PM | Reply

#152

You're talking about two different things.

I don't know that I would characterize anti-vaxxers in the same way you have. I think that Bored captured it earlier, pointing out that a lot of it is probably pride and an unwillingness to walk back on their dismissal of COVID. Whatever. Their choice.

Expecting someone to get a vaccine in order to make someone who is vaccinated feel better about themselves is very different. The maths clearly show that if you're vaccinated, COVID doesn't even make the list of things that will get you. In fact it may be less deadly than the seasonal flu. Which is stupid. And if the risk of 1/222k of getting the disease, or 1/4.25 million of dying still scares you, it's up to you how to figure out how to reconcile that risk...not expect others to sacrifice so you don't have to.

#160 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:02 PM | Reply

"And that's why I think you're selfish. You would rather some walk around in masks rated for biological warfare just so you don't have to do a thing."

Absolutely.

There is no reason that society should have to sacrifice in order to make someone else feel safer, when they can take measures, real measures on their own to ensure that safety.

But forcing the public to wear a mask so that 1 in 222,222 doesn't die??? Yeah. Fair trade. Very fair trade.

#161 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:04 PM | Reply

"You are literally obstinately opposing anything at all that you might have to do to even help those around you even a little bit."

It's not me dude. It's everyone who is not that 1 in 222,222.

And why is it you would be against a tiny minority of at risk individuals being accountable for their own well being? Why doesn't that make sense to you.

If it were me, and I was at risk, or was scared of COVID, I'd be masked up in an M50. Why should I ask or expect others to do something on my behalf that I can do better myself?

#162 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:07 PM | Reply

"That is literally nothing. Nothing of significance."

If it's nothing...if it's insignificant, why do it?

To make people feel better? Is this the progressive, egalitarian answer? Make 1440 people who don't really need it wear a mask for the one person who does?

If one person has to wear it, then everyone does?

It's a serious question. You seem to view it as problematic for a person at risk to be expected to don proper protective equipment. I don't get that. As effective as being permanently masked up may be, it's still nowhere near as effective as PPE that was designed for this specific purpose.

#163 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:10 PM | Reply

"Yes, and most of those who die are either a. the very young who can't get vaccinated or b. the very elderly for whom vaccination doesn't work very well."

62.2% of children were vaccinated during the 2018-2019 season.

Seasonal flu is 2-3 times more deadly for those under 18 than COVID.

#164 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:13 PM | Reply

There is no reason that society should have to sacrifice in order to make someone else feel safer, when they can take measures, real measures on their own to ensure that safety.

Except they are taking measures too.

But forcing the public to wear a mask so that 1 in 222,222 doesn't die??? Yeah. Fair trade. Very fair trade.

#161 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

If you have to lie you've already lost.

BTW next time I say "your selfish" just say "I agree." It'll make these threads easier to read.

#165 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 02:19 PM | Reply

#162 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

For the last time catching it is only half the equation.

Interesting take on your character, though, that you apparently have zero reservations about giving somebody COVID.

#166 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If it's nothing...if it's insignificant, why do it?

Because the impact is far greater than the action.

Again, not selfish = gets that.

#167 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 02:21 PM | Reply

62.2% of children were vaccinated during the 2018-2019 season.
Seasonal flu is 2-3 times more deadly for those under 18 than COVID.

#164 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

And?

#168 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 02:22 PM | Reply

You seem to view it as problematic for a person at risk to be expected to don proper protective equipment.

If you have to lie.

You've. Already. Lost.

#169 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 02:23 PM | Reply

'I Lost My Best Friend': Georgia Deputy's Son, 5, Dies From COVID-19

www.gpb.org

#170 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-07-20 02:29 PM | Reply

"BTW next time I say "your selfish" just say "I agree." It'll make these threads easier to read."

OK That's fair.

If selfishness is expecting one person to see to their own well being so that 1,440 other don't have to, them I'm as selfish as they come.

I would think it selfish if even one person was expected to sacrifice so than another didn't have to be personally responsible.

#171 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:32 PM | Reply

"For the last time catching it is only half the equation."

What's only half the equation?

If everyone saw to their own well being, they wouldn't be reliant on others to do it for them.

"Interesting take on your character, though, that you apparently have zero reservations about giving somebody COVID."

You can't catch COVID if you're wearing an M50 gas mask. Or any number of similar protective equipment.

I mean, I guess it's possible. It could be defective or something.

But generally they work.

#172 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:35 PM | Reply

"And?"

Shouldn't we have been wearing masks since they were developed?

For the children?

Is society remiss for having gone all these years without protecting them from the seasonal flu?

#173 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:36 PM | Reply

Trump expressed confidence in the vaccines and vaccination in many different ways " on Twitter and in public remarks " touting their life-saving potential and saying they would be safe and available to all.

#138 | Posted by eberly

Then he got vaccinated in secret. Why is that?

Now he's saying people are dying from the vaccines. Why is that?

#174 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 02:36 PM | Reply

"If you have to lie."

Then I will ask again the question you refuse to answer.

What is your problem with people who are still at risk post-vaccine, or simply scared, taking charge of their own well being and using the proper PPE?

#175 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:37 PM | Reply

I would think it selfish if even one person was expected to sacrifice so than another didn't have to be personally responsible.

#171 | Posted by madbomber a

No it's selfish to keep a pandemic going simply because you're brainwashed to oppose people who are trying to end it.

#176 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 02:37 PM | Reply

"Because the impact is far greater than the action."

What's more effective at protecting a person who is still at risk from COVID?

That person wearing an M50 gas mask, or everyone else wearing some form of face diaper?

#177 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:39 PM | Reply

@144 Gal_Tuesday

www.geertvandenbossche.org for supportive references.

#178 | Posted by FSUknowit at 2021-07-20 02:40 PM | Reply

If you need help, I can answer. I have a lot of experience with the M50.

And the answer is the M50.

#179 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:40 PM | Reply

"No it's selfish to keep a pandemic going simply because you're brainwashed to oppose people who are trying to end it."

The get a vaccine.

They appear to be quite effective.

So effective, in fact, that you can stop wetting yourself over it.

#180 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 02:42 PM | Reply

-BTW next time I say "your selfish" just say "I agree." It'll make these threads easier to read.

That suggestion would work in a lot of threads...but the DR has to exist so, there you go.

But you're concerned about selfishness from Madbomber's opinion but posts that start with "screw them, they deserve to die" you ignore?

I actually agree with your choices....people who utter things like that should be ignored.

At least Madbomber is discussing this issue in a way you can engage.

#181 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 02:49 PM | Reply

"No it's selfish to keep a pandemic going simply because you're brainwashed to oppose people who are trying to end it."

The get a vaccine.

They appear to be quite effective.

So effective, in fact, that you can stop wetting yourself over it.

#180 | Posted by madbomber

For the millionth time. A pandemic doesn't end when I get the vaccine. It ends when all the morons agree to finally get it.

Do you want the pandemic to end? Or just not while a democrat is in the white house?

#182 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 02:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Do you want the pandemic to end? Or just not while a democrat is in the white house?

#182 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Bingo.

#183 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 03:00 PM | Reply

I would think it selfish if even one person was expected to sacrifice so than another didn't have to be personally responsible.

#171 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

This is literally the third time you've posted this and it's been corrected.

Expecting you to wear a mask doesn't mean others go maskless.

---- dude, this isn't hard.

#184 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:08 PM | Reply

You can't catch COVID if you're wearing an M50 gas mask.

So it's up to everyone else to protect themselves from you because you're a petulant child?

Gotcha.

#185 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And?"
Shouldn't we have been wearing masks since they were developed?
For the children?
Is society remiss for having gone all these years without protecting them from the seasonal flu?

#173 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I see. So you're cherry picking some data to make an absurd point based on a logical fallacy.

#186 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:13 PM | Reply

Then I will ask again the question you refuse to answer.

I've answered it three times now.

#187 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:14 PM | Reply

Then I will ask again the question you refuse to answer.

I've answered it three times now.

#188 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:14 PM | Reply

If you need help, I can answer. I have a lot of experience with the M50.
And the answer is the M50.

#179 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Already addressed this one too.

Two people wearing cloth masks is as effective as an N-95 (97% reduction of risk).

And those masks can be had for a few bucks at a drug store as opposed to a top of the line respirator developed for biological/chemical warfare defense.

#189 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:15 PM | Reply

At least Madbomber is discussing this issue in a way you can engage.

#181 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Continually repeating fallacies even after they've been corrected and insisting people should just wear hazmat suits in public so he doesn't have to wear a mask at all isn't much better.

#190 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 03:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You seem to view it as problematic for a person at risk to be expected to don proper protective equipment."

Everybody is a person at risk.

Until 2019 the risk was zero. It's gone up since then. It's not going back to zero.

And it's not a problem to wear PPE. It's just a mask.

#191 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:24 PM | Reply

"You can't catch COVID if you're wearing an M50 gas mask."

Setting aside other vectors of infection, you will starve to death if you never take the mask off.

#192 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In May, over 18,000 Americans died of COVID-19. Of those who died, only about 150 were people who had been vaccinated. In the same month, more than 107,000 Americans were hospitalized for severe illness attributed to COVID-19. Only 1% of those people had been vaccinated.

#193 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-20 03:30 PM | Reply

"Do you want the pandemic to end? Or just not while a democrat is in the white house?"

Why would I care about an illness that is now targeting almost exclusively those who choose to host it?

#194 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:31 PM | Reply

I like to ---- in the city water supply while shedding AIDS. The chance that anyone will get infected is low, but if they are scared they can always take AZT as a precaution.

#195 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-20 03:33 PM | Reply

"So it's up to everyone else to protect themselves from you because you're a petulant child?"

Yes.

You literally are the best progressive on this site. Asserting that the vast majority of humans should sacrifice so that a tiny minority can feel safer.

And it's not me. Again, if I were scared or considered myself at risk, I would be wearing the proper PPE. Why? Because I can do it far more effectively on my own than 1440 can by wearing a face diaper.

That's a fact. That's not even up for dispute.

Which is why you keep dodging the question on why it's wrong to expect individuals to take care of themselves.

#196 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:34 PM | Reply

"But forcing the public to wear a mask so that 1 in 222,222 doesn't die??"

You realize that the denominator keeps getting smaller, right, as more and more people die, right?

At the first moment you could have made that claim, it would have been 1 in 330,000,000 people.

Just 18 months later it's 1 in 222,222.

#197 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:35 PM | Reply

What German city do you live in? I am always looking for new places to swim.

#198 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-20 03:36 PM | Reply

"so that a tiny minority can feel safer."

Not feel safer.
Actually be safer.

And it's not a tiny minority.
It's everyone.

#199 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:36 PM | Reply

"I've answered it three times now."

No you haven't.

You have not answered why people should be required to take care of themselves, especially when it's so easy.

What you may have said three times is that at-risk or scared people shouldn't have to take care of themselves, but rather society should make that sacrifice on their behalf.

So I'll ask again. Is there any reason why those who are scared or at risk should not be expected to wear PPE that would provide nearly 100% protection in favor of society wearing face diapers that offer something less than 100% protection

#200 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:37 PM | Reply

"Why would I care about an illness that is now targeting almost exclusively those who choose to host it?"

It isn't targeting anyone.

#201 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:37 PM | Reply

"Continually repeating fallacies even after they've been corrected and insisting people should just wear hazmat suits in public so he doesn't have to wear a mask at all isn't much better."

Fallacy?

It's a fallacy that an individual wearing an M50 provides better protection than those around him wearing face coverings?

That's not true?

If so, someone needs to inform the DoD. I think they expect the M50 to perform better in a contaminated environment.

#202 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:38 PM | Reply

"Everybody is a person at risk."

Yup. Like everyone is at risk of being hurt in a plane crash. Or being eaten by a shark. Or being struck by lightning.

But as always, that's why it's on the individual to reconcile the risk they incur by placing themselves in their chosen environment.

An unvaxxed 18 year old may decide that there is no risk worth putting life on hold, while a vaxxed 50 year old may elect to shelter indefinitely out of fear of the virus.

#203 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:41 PM | Reply

"Like everyone is at risk of being hurt in a plane crash. Or being eaten by a shark. Or being struck by lightning."

None of those are infectious diseases that we can prevent anf forestall with herd immunity.

So, the dynamics of risk reduction for the population is not the same.

#204 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:44 PM | Reply

#177

No,

The numerator is the number of people who have been vaccinated. The denominator is the number of vaccinated people who have caught COVID in one case, and the number of people who have died from COVID.

#205 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:45 PM | Reply

" people should be required to take care of themselves, especially when it's so easy."

Not really.

It turns out doing your own cornea transplant isn't as easy as it sounds.

#206 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-20 03:45 PM | Reply

"An unvaxxed 18 year old may decide that there is no risk worth putting life on hold"

Wearing a mask isn't putting your life on hold.
Getting a vaccine isn't putting your life on hold either.
So what are you referring to?

#207 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:45 PM | Reply

"None of those are infectious diseases that we can prevent anf forestall with herd immunity."

It most certainly is.

You can avoid dying or being injured in a car or plane crash by not driving or flying. That will reduce your risk immeasurably. But it still won't stop that one off chance of a car driving into your house and killing you, or a plane crashing into you.

But here's the thing. We're talking about risk numbers that are now almost insignificant. One in more than 200k can be expected to catch COVID. One in more than four million will die from it.

In terms of risks that need to be addresses, these are almost not worth recognition.

#208 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:49 PM | Reply

-None of those are infectious diseases that we can prevent anf forestall with herd immunity.

But it's all about mitigation of risk.

Just like these dolts who choose not to be vaccinated...they aren't mitigating their own risk.

Especially those who know they are at risk, aren't vaccinated, and then still expose themselves to the virus all the time.

You know who we are talking about....we post threads about them multiple times a day here.

They're the ones who don't give a ----....the selfish.

I'm vaccinated. My family is vaccinated. Where directed, we will wear a mask, like when we fly for vacation in 2 days.

I don't want a shark to eat me.....but I don't expect anybody other than me to mitigate that risk.

The point being made is that is an option for someone with regards to COVID. Make your choices and take your risks.

#209 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 03:50 PM | Reply

" We're talking about risk numbers that are now almost insignificant."

Only if you ignore asymptomatic contagion, increased hosts for variants, long-haul sufferers, and those who will end up with permanent organ damage.

#210 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-20 03:53 PM | Reply

" The point being made is that is an option for someone with regards to COVID"

Except if you choose to swim with the sharks, no one around you can get eaten.

If they could, would/should you view your swim differently?

#211 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-20 03:55 PM | Reply

"Wearing a mask isn't putting your life on hold."

Then why wouldn't you expect someone at risk to wear a mask?

"Getting a vaccine isn't putting your life on hold either."

For millions of 20-somethings, it might mean a couple of lost weekends spent in abject misery. To vaccinate against a virus that is almost insignificant.

I get jabs all the time for my job, so one more isn't a problem for me. And I'm one of the fortunate ones who had almost zero side effects. But I'm the exception. But I also understand why someone who isn't statistically at risk would see no value in getting the shot. They may actually enjoy the thought of striking fear into the hearts of a bunch of preachy old people.

But here's the thing. If you want to get more jabs into arms, get with your bros, put together some funds, and pay them to get the shots. I can almost promise you that if some progressive trust fund was shelling out cash in return for shots, ALL of those 20-somethings would be standing in line.

In Germany, they've made it pretty simple. If you're vaxxed, you can do whatever you want. Unvaxxed, you're stuck with last January's rules. In fact Germany is actually looking towards altering their decision modeling away from the number of new cases to the number of new hospitalizations. They've realized that for many people additional restrictions simply aren't necessary, even if cases are rising.

#212 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:57 PM | Reply

"None of those are infectious diseases that we can prevent anf forestall with herd immunity."

"It most certainly is."

You lie.

The herd could reduce your risk of shark attack by swimming with you. But that would increase their risk. It becomes a zero sum game.

Herd immunity is not like that. As each individual gets vaccinated, it also reduces the risk for everyone else. It's not a zero sum game.

#213 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 03:59 PM | Reply

"Just like these dolts who choose not to be vaccinated...they aren't mitigating their own risk."

But according to JPW, these individuals should be put on a pedestal, and restrictions should be implemented to prevent them from getting COVID.

#214 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 03:59 PM | Reply

What time is it in Germany?

#215 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 04:00 PM | Reply

" One in more than 200k can be expected to catch COVID. One in more than four million will die from it."

Probability doesn't work that way.; you've already used up your entire denominator, but your numerator gets bigger every hour. That means your current percentages have nowhere to go but up.

As it is, your conclusion assumes not a single additional person will die from Covid, starting now. Is that what you're claiming?

#216 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-20 04:00 PM | Reply

Which is why you keep dodging the question on why it's wrong to expect individuals to take care of themselves.

#196 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Number four.

Piss off.

#217 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:02 PM | Reply

" ... against a virus that is almost insignificant."

That lie never becomes truer with repetition.

Are you simply trying to clear your conscience?

#218 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-20 04:03 PM | Reply

>You have not answered why people should be required to take care of themselves, especially when it's so easy.

Those at risk should wear masks too. That's been part of my position from the get go.

That's five.

Piss off.

#219 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:03 PM | Reply

" ... against a virus that is almost insignificant."

Weird. Stupidly weird.

#220 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 04:05 PM | Reply

An unvaxxed 18 year old may decide that there is no risk worth putting life on hold, while a vaxxed 50 year old may elect to shelter indefinitely out of fear of the virus.

#203 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Only when you consider the effects of catching COVID.

Whatever. You're too far down the sociopath me me me hole to be helped at this point.

#221 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm vaccinated. My family is vaccinated. Where directed, we will wear a mask, like when we fly for vacation in 2 days."

Airplanes are actually some of the least risky places to be without a mask.

You probably go out to dinner, and when you sit down you remove your mask. Apparently the act of sitting is enough to prevent the transmission of COVID.

On an aircraft, the air you exhale is immediately sucked into a system where part of it is filtered and a larger part is pulled in through the engine's bleed air system. Can transmission happen? Yes. But must virons aren't that luck and get cast out into the stratosphere.

Yet oddly enough the airlines still tend to be the biggest mask Nazis...although I think they are getting better. I've been flying back and forth to the US about once a month, plus trips here in Europe. Masks must be worn from the minute you enter the departure airport to the minute you exit at the arrival airport. 24 hours under mask can be brutal. When you need a break, just order a drink or a snack.

#222 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:06 PM | Reply

One in more than 200k can be expected to catch COVID. One in more than four million will die from it.

In a case where 100% of people are vaccinated.

Which begs the question, why are you phrasing your argument that way when that's not the case?

#223 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:06 PM | Reply

"Do you want the pandemic to end? Or just not while a democrat is in the white house?"

Why would I care about an illness that is now targeting almost exclusively those who choose to host it?

#194 | Posted by madbomber

How many times has mutation been explained to you? How many times have people who CANT be vaccinated been explained to you?

Better question - How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

#224 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 04:07 PM | Reply

#215

22.00

#225 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:07 PM | Reply

I don't want a shark to eat me.....but I don't expect anybody other than me to mitigate that risk.

It's not within other people's power to mitigate that risk.

See the difference?

#226 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:07 PM | Reply

But according to JPW, these individuals should be put on a pedestal, and restrictions should be implemented to prevent them from getting COVID.

#214 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

More lies.

Piss off.

#227 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:08 PM | Reply

"Those at risk should wear masks too."

M50 masks or M50 mask equivalents, right?

Something that provides near 100% protection?

What masks should those who are not at risk wear? Same? Different? Anything?

#228 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:08 PM | Reply

Then why wouldn't you expect someone at risk to wear a mask?

The are wearing a mask...

I didn't think somebody could become a pilot while being illiterate.

#229 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:09 PM | Reply

#215

22.00

#225 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Yeah, I had to look it up too.

#230 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-20 04:09 PM | Reply

"In a case where 100% of people are vaccinated."

In the case of the 159 million who are vaccinated.

Given that the majority of those who aren't vaccinated aren't at risk, you could reasonably expect those odds to decline.

#231 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:10 PM | Reply

"But I also understand why someone who isn't statistically at risk would see no value in getting the shot."

If they don't know what herd immunity is, or how it works, that's one thing.

If they do know, and they want to increase the risk to others by weakening herd immunity that's something else entirely. That's sociopathic behavior.

There's arguably shades of grey between the two. For example, people who overestimate the risk of the vaccine and/or underestimate the risk of COVID-19 to society and by extension to themselves.

#232 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:10 PM | Reply

24 hours under mask can be brutal.

Snowflake.

But yes, airplanes are probably much safer than restaurants due to controlled airflow.

#233 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:11 PM | Reply

"Given that the majority of those who aren't vaccinated aren't at risk, you could reasonably expect those odds to decline."

Except those odds have gone up, thanks to Delta.

#234 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:11 PM | Reply

In the case of the 159 million who are vaccinated.
Given that the majority of those who aren't vaccinated aren't at risk, you could reasonably expect those odds to decline.

#231 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

No.

Infectivity in an unvaccinated person doesn't change no matter how many there are.

Nor does the mortality rate.

#235 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:12 PM | Reply

More lies.

Dude, that's literally what you said

And that's why I think you're selfish. You would rather some walk around in masks rated for biological warfare just so you don't have to do a thing. It's a ------- cloth mask, dude. Stop being such a -----."

Were you lying?

#236 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:13 PM | Reply

M50 masks or M50 mask equivalents, right?
Something that provides near 100% protection?
What masks should those who are not at risk wear? Same? Different? Anything?

#228 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

As I've stated three times, two people wearing a cloth mask are as effective as an N-95.

Are you really this functionally illiterate?

#237 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:14 PM | Reply

'You would rather some walk around in masks rated for biological warfare"

LOL

#238 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:14 PM | Reply

Were you lying?

#236 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Jesus H you're an idiot.

#239 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:15 PM | Reply

"Except those odds have gone up, thanks to Delta."

Really?

My understanding is that D is more contagious, and potentially more problematic to unvaxxed, but not much of a threat to the vaxxed population

#240 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:15 PM | Reply

"As I've stated three times, two people wearing a cloth mask are as effective as an N-95."

At doing what?

Is either as effective as an M50?

#241 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:16 PM | Reply

'You would rather some walk around in masks rated for biological warfare"

If I were at risk of being harmed by COVID, you bet I would.

Only those without real concern would walk around without one on.

#242 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-20 04:17 PM | Reply

Two people wearing cloth masks is as effective as an N-95 (97% reduction of risk).
And those masks can be had for a few bucks at a drug store as opposed to a top of the line respirator developed for biological/chemical warfare defense.

#189 | POSTED BY JPW

That's what I've already said.

Here's an analogy of your behavior.

We both want to reach 50 as an average number.

I think we should have two people wearing plentiful, cheap, easily obtained and worn cloth masks so each is contributing 50. I'm even better with the more worried party wearing an N95 to make it 45/55.

Your expectation is that it be 0 for you and 100 for anybody else.

BTW why did you ignore my question about mission success and obstinate individualism? Wouldn't you be pretty pissed if 40% of your pilots decided they didn't think that target should be hit and dropped on something else? Because, you know, they saw a youtube video by some guy...

#243 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:22 PM | Reply

At doing what?
Is either as effective as an M50?

#241 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

At mitigating transmission.

You really are this stupid? Or is it just obtuse?

#244 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:23 PM | Reply

"My understanding is that D is more contagious, and potentially more problematic to unvaxxed, but not much of a threat to the vaxxed population."

Your understanding of COVID-19 is that it's not much of a threat to the unvaccinated population either.

#245 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:24 PM | Reply

"It's not within other people's power to mitigate that risk.
See the difference?"

But even if it were within someone else's power to mitigate the risk of me getting eaten by a shark....I would still own that responsibility myself.

I wouldn't hand it to someone else.

What risk that I have and can mitigate all by myself should I be putting on to all of you?

Motorcycle riders are at risk of being struck by automobiles because they don't see them.

It's a risk those riders take when they are out there on the road.

If that rider wants to not wear a helmet, gets struck by a car, and suffers a massive head injury due to the fact they weren't wearing a helmet, at the end of the day, there is no getting around the reality of recognizing the risk the rider taking. Primarily being on a motorcycle in the first place and second, not wearing a helmet.

All risks that can be mitigated by either wearing a helmet or staying off the cycle in the first place.

It helps when other drivers are paying attention.......but it doesn't change the risk the rider is taking all by themself that they chose to take.

#246 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:25 PM | Reply

So maybe they should stop putting those annoying stickers up that say "see motorcycles", right?

#247 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:31 PM | Reply

-Your understanding of COVID-19 is that it's not much of a threat to the unvaccinated population either.

Not me. My understanding is that the unvaccinated are taking virtually all the risks. Especially the ones who KNOW they have health vulnerabilities.

Historically, anti-vaxers count on the reality they are surrounded by the vaccinated.

That's why parents of children not vaccinated for the various things don't worry about their kids getting it any of those diseases.

They'd get over that ---- in a New York minute if they really worried about their kids getting polio.

Which is where we are headed with the current crop of -------- who are thumbing their nose at vaccines.

Once they get it how risky their behavior really is....they'll get the vaccine.

At this point, they didn't appreciate it.....but I think many will soon.

#248 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:31 PM | Reply

And you still didn't quite hit the mark in that rebuttal.

There is and will always remain an element of your decisions and actions effecting others when it comes to infectious diseases.

#249 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:32 PM | Reply

"But even if it were within someone else's power to mitigate the risk of me getting eaten by a shark....I would still own that responsibility myself."

You own the part under your control.

Including the sliver of the risk to others that is based on your decisions. That too is under your control.

I'm not suggesting you don't know this. I'm just calling it out.

#250 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:32 PM | Reply

"I wouldn't hand it to someone else."

The existence of society means you've already handed some of it to everyone else.

There is no other way.

#251 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:34 PM | Reply

247

sticker? where? you mean signs?

#252 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:35 PM | Reply

-The existence of society means you've already handed some of it to everyone else.

If don't want to get vaccinated and still expose myself to society....then yes, I'm handing it to everyone else.

I've gotten vaccinated. Not just for myself, but for the good of my neighbor.

but if my neighbor doesn't want to get vaccinated...I'm the selfish one for not wearing a mask around him when he comes over to my house?

#253 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:38 PM | Reply

I see both.

#254 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 04:38 PM | Reply

"but if my neighbor doesn't want to get vaccinated...I'm the selfish one for not wearing a mask around him when he comes over to my house?"

Selfish is not the word I would use. That's a bit extreme.

But they way things are going, you should wear mask around unvaccinated people.

Obviously people have a bubble of people they let their guard down around. Friends, family, co-workers you actually work with.

#255 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 04:49 PM | Reply

254

are the stickers meaningful?

or are do consider them meaningful because they aren't a huge hassle to put up?

Or are they really nothing more than a meaningful gesture to motorcycle riders to say "we care"?

Kind of like "children at play" signs in neighborhoods?

#256 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:50 PM | Reply

-Selfish is not the word I would use. That's a bit extreme.

That term has been used repeatedly on this thread....is it extreme only in my scenario or all of them?

-Obviously people have a bubble of people they let their guard down around. Friends, family, co-workers you actually work with.

Obviously that was a first step....my home.

Now, let's move to Home Depot or a commercial flight.......same theory?

The most rancid and nasty things said about the unvaccinated has NOT come from me, in case you haven't noticed.

Now, you're suggesting everyone, including the Clownshacks, speaksoftlys, etc..all suck it up and wear a mask to protect those who they are fine with seeing die?

#257 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-20 04:54 PM | Reply

"Now, you're suggesting everyone, including the Clownshacks, speaksoftlys, etc..all suck it up and wear a mask to protect those who they are fine with seeing die?"

Yes, I'm suggesting wearing a mask around other people, even if you're vaccinated. Although I don't think people will do that in their own homes.

Lots of places I'm at, the workers still have to wear masks. So I generally do too. Not always. Definitely not as much as before. You can't stay at red alert forever. Which coincidentally is the excuse they used to roll on David Koresh when they did.

#258 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 05:03 PM | Reply

#256 masks are just as easy and slapping a sign in your yard.

#259 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-20 05:03 PM | Reply

My understanding is that D is more contagious, and potentially more problematic to unvaxxed, but not much of a threat to the vaxxed population

#240 | Posted by madbomber

If delta evolved to be more dangerous than alpha, does that tell you that letting this pandemic continue could create more strains that are even more dangerous and can't be stopped?

Do you want that to happen? When we get a deadlier varient than delta it will be entirely the fault of morons like you.

#260 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 05:27 PM | Reply

What would you suggest from your armchair? What do you think Biden is not doing that the Orange Oinker would be doing?
#125 | POSTED BY RIGHTISTRITE AT 2021-07-20 08:57 AM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

Apparently you have pigeonholed me as a Trump supporter. I'm not. Biden has been equally disappointing in his response. I don't have the answers. I just know there are a lot of questions that aren't being answered. Politics have defeated truth.

#261 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 07:22 PM | Reply

Gal Tuesday,
No she isn't in the hospital. I won't go into a lot of detail out of respect for her privacy, but she is starting to improve. I appreciate your remarks.

Others here assume I am lying and have an agenda. My agenda is simply truth. I am VERY pro vaccine. I am also relatively conservative. Those two viewpoints commonly coexist, despite the partisan rhetoric suggesting otherwise. I am concerned we are not getting accurate and complete information, and the other shoe is getting ready to drop.

I don't blame anyone for not believing me, it is really unlikely that a group of six vaccinated 20 somethings could get sick, based on what we have been told. That's my point. We aren't being told. I fear that information is being kept from us to protect the "narrative". I'm not going to show any "receipts" because these kids deserve some privacy. Suffice it to say it will all come out soon enough. Tney have notified CDC. They can't be the only ones. Coming soon to your school, workplace or neighborhood.

And Zed, you are simply vile. You are so consumed with Trump that you ooze hatred from every pore. Must be a sad existence for you.

#262 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 07:51 PM | Reply

Apparently you have pigeonholed me as a Trump supporter. I'm not. Biden has been equally disappointing in his response. I don't have the answers. I just know there are a lot of questions that aren't being answered. Politics have defeated truth.

#261 | Posted by Miranda7

haha "i'm not a trump supporter. Just a moron who can't tell the difference between a president killing a half million americans with lies and incompetence vs a president who makes sure a solution to the pandemic is available to everyone."

Trump defeated truth because he knew if he could destroy the concept of knowable facts, he could do whatever he wants and no one would believe it. it's why the first thing he did was attack the media. it worked like a charm on morons.

#263 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 08:13 PM | Reply

A moron is a person with such a simplistic, binary thought process that they believe one President did nothing but wrong and evil and the other does nothing but right and goodness.

I don't like either one of them, but Neither is all villain or all hero. I will give each credit for what they did right and hold them accountable for what they did wrong. It is intellectually dishonest to do otherwise.

#264 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 08:31 PM | Reply

A moron is a person with such a simplistic, binary thought process that they believe one President did nothing but wrong and evil and the other does nothing but right and goodness.

I don't like either one of them, but Neither is all villain or all hero. I will give each credit for what they did right and hold them accountable for what they did wrong. It is intellectually dishonest to do otherwise.

#264 | Posted by Miranda7

Who said any president is all evil or all good? Quote them.

A cold and AIDS are both diseases. But only a moron can't tell which one is worse.

#265 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-20 08:33 PM | Reply

No need to quote, just click on your name and read any of your posts. No. Ok then, tell me something Trump did right and something Biden did wrong.Stumped? Proved my point.

#266 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-20 09:15 PM | Reply

"Ok then, tell me something Trump did right and something Biden did wrong."

Trump made Epi-Pens cheaper. Biden made them expensive again.

#267 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-20 09:32 PM | Reply

"Tney have notified CDC."

That's one way to create receipts and in a way that could prove beneficial to others.

PS Relieved to hear your daughter is improving.

#268 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 09:51 PM | Reply

I don't blame anyone for not believing me, it is really unlikely that a group of six vaccinated 20 somethings could get sick, based on what we have been told. That's my point. We aren't being told. I fear that information is being kept from us to protect the "narrative".

I posted this article as a separate thread, but you might find it useful in understanding how 6 vaccinated 20 somethings could get sick and yet not have it mean the vaccinations aren't working:

www.theatlantic.com

"I don't like either one of them, but Neither is all villain or all hero. I will give each credit for what they did right and hold them accountable for what they did wrong. It is intellectually dishonest to do otherwise."

No hero is perfect/all good, that is true unless you are talking about a perfect being like Christ or the Buddha. Even saints have flaws. Villains can do good things, but that doesn't mean they aren't villains. What is intellectually dishonest is to excuse a villain because s/he did a good thing or 20. It's like Trump saying, "Hitler did good things." Oh, sure, he started WWII and killed all those Jews, but, hey, he did good things too.

#269 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 10:27 PM | Reply

"Their symptoms are mild, but worse than most people i know who got sick before vaccines were available. "

PS I wonder if that could be because, unlike the other people you know, your daughter and her friends have the Delta variant? I think that is the next shoe that is currently dropping now all across the country. Will there be more shoes in the future? Probably.

#270 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-20 11:30 PM | Reply

Am I the only one excited for the next variant? It'll probably have a great name ...

#271 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-21 12:36 AM | Reply

Thanks for the link. I will take a look.

As to villains, I disagree. You can't deny that Hitler did a few things "right". If he hadn't, he would never have gained a folllowing. He was charismatic enough to indoctrinate a lot of people. Acknowledging his strengths does not excuse or mitigate his wrongs or make him any less evil. He should never be glorified or celebrated. But it is equally dangerous to idepict him as a simplistic one dimensional monster. It gives a false sense of security that monsters are easy to identify and eradicate.

Ted Bundy is another example. Many objected to Zac Efrons "humanizing" depiction of him as a witty, charming attractive man. He was all of those things, and also a sadistic homicidal maniac. Young women needed to see that version of him to understand WHY women willingly got into his car. "He seemed so nice" said one of his few survivors.

#272 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-21 12:50 AM | Reply

Variant testing is not routinely done.here and required a special request. The results will take weeks.

#273 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2021-07-21 01:00 AM | Reply

Variant testing is not routinely done.here and required a special request. The results will take weeks.

#273 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

It's my understanding random sampling is done to check variant proportions.

And yes, it's a much longer procedure than a simple PCR test.

#274 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 01:04 AM | Reply

Variant testing is not routinely done.here and required a special request. The results will take weeks.
#273 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7 AT 2021-07-21 01:00 AM | REPLY

FYI:

NEW: CDC Director says Delta variant now represents 83% of sequenced samples in US
twitter.com

83% of new coronavirus cases in the U.S. are caused by the Delta variant, according to new figures from the CDC
twitter.com

In February 2020 I started looking at what was happening in Italy and knew covid was coming here. A few weeks ago I started looking at what is happening in Israel (and to a lesser extent the UK) with regard to Delta and see what is in store for us:

On Friday, Bennett said the Pfizer vaccine is less effective against the Delta variant, which currently represents the vast majority of cases in Israel.

"We do not know exactly to what degree the vaccine helps, but it is significantly less," he noted.

Israel is conducting research to understand what is causing the drop in efficacy, Ash said, and whether the time elapsed since receiving the two shots is the central elements or other factors-- like age or background diseases--have a significant role.


www.jpost.com

#275 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-21 06:01 AM | Reply

The Republicans have shown their lack of concern for Americans dying, to the point that it is ingrained in their base.

The Republicans want power, regardless of how many Americans are killed in their quest.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-19 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

The rabid Trumptards were greedy selfish racist bigoted ------ before Fat Nixon gave them an idol to worship. He just gave them the confidence to come from under their rocks.

#276 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-21 07:55 AM | Reply

-It seems this problem is taking care of itself.

Man, that is just cold-blooded.

You seem to be clutching your pearls over tolerant people not tolerating intolerant people.

I am out of ---- to give for these people that are sick and dying because they REFUSE to a) wear a mask, b) social distance and c) take a vaccine that will keep them from dying.

They've had every opportunity to do things that keep them and us safe during this pandemic but haircuts, bowling and their hysteria over wearing a mask cutting off the airflow to their feeble minds lead to a plan to kidnap and murder the governor of Michigan. They were like children laying on the floor at the Piggly Wiggly kicking and screaming because you would not buy them a box of Frankenberry when there is a near full box of Count Chocula at home. They acted like toddlers on social media making fake "freedom to breathe" badges and yelling and screaming at minimum wage store clerks who were only doing their jobs. You don't want to wear a mask? Fine. But if a store requires a mask inside you have no right to demand the store acquiesce to your ----- baby demands. Go elsewhere.

Story after story are coming out now of these vaccine deniers who refused to get the jab, refused to wear a mask and social distance now are getting sick and dying from a variant THAT THEY HAVE BEEN WARNED WAS COMING FOR SIX MONTHS.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

The more anti-vax morons there are, the less anti-vax morons there will be in the future.

COVID doesn't care about your politics or social status.

What they are doing is giving the virus a living host to replicate in, possibly mutate into something worse than the delta variant, and spread to the rest of us.

They're selfish ------ and they get what they deserve.

#277 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-21 08:07 AM | Reply

Acknowledging his (Hitler's) strengths does not excuse or mitigate his wrongs or make him any less evil.

#272 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

But that's exactly what Trump was trying to do.

Donald Trump isn't interested in a nuanced view of Hitler. Donald Trump admires Hitler.

#278 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 08:17 AM | Reply

Acknowledging his (Hitler's) strengths does not excuse or mitigate his wrongs or make him any less evil.
#272 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

^
This was better when you had "strengths" in quotes. Ted Bundy's "strength" was he was a good con man. Being a con man isn't a strength, from the point of view of anyone but a con man.

Also, if you talk about a bad person's strengths without context, it's not at all clear that you even think he's evil.

Get it?

#279 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 08:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"it's not at all clear that you even think he's evil."

Yes it is. You're just a juvenile searching for an excuse to call someone a Nazi.

#280 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 08:37 AM | Reply

-You seem to be clutching your pearls over tolerant people not tolerating intolerant people.

You seem to be talking tough because you imagine all these people are trumpers.

#281 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 08:40 AM | Reply

"it's not at all clear that you even think he's evil."

You = the speaker. Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches next to his bed, and also unapologetically re-tweeted Mussolini with full knowledge it was Mussolini. The evidence suggests Trump admired the two.

"You're just a juvenile"

That's kind of you, but my youthful good looks is nothing for you to to be jealous of!

#282 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 08:47 AM | Reply

"You seem to be talking tough because you imagine all these people are trumpers."

Not all Republicans are Trumpers, but all Republicans decided Trump isn't a dealbreaker.

(I feel like that's going to be a high mileage quote for you.)

#283 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 08:49 AM | Reply

"Also, if you talk about a bad person's strengths without context, it's not at all clear that you even think he's evil."

Miranda7's first post on the topic did open itself to such an interpretation in that he seemed to define "right" as something pertaining to "right and goodness":

"A moron is a person with such a simplistic, binary thought process that they believe one President did nothing but wrong and evil and the other does nothing but right and goodness.

I don't like either one of them, but Neither is all villain or all hero. I will give each credit for what they did right and hold them accountable for what they did wrong. It is intellectually dishonest to do otherwise."

It was only in his subsequent post that he defined "right" in terms of "strengths" and effectiveness in using those strengths to do "wrongs" and obtain "evil: ends:

"You can't deny that Hitler did a few things "right". If he hadn't, he would never have gained a folllowing. He was charismatic enough to indoctrinate a lot of people. Acknowledging his strengths does not excuse or mitigate his wrongs or make him any less evil. He should never be glorified or celebrated. But it is equally dangerous to idepict him as a simplistic one dimensional monster. It gives a false sense of security that monsters are easy to identify and eradicate.

Ted Bundy is another example. Many objected to Zac Efrons "humanizing" depiction of him as a witty, charming attractive man. He was all of those things, and also a sadistic homicidal maniac. Young women needed to see that version of him to understand WHY women willingly got into his car. "He seemed so nice" said one of his few survivors."

#284 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-21 08:52 AM | Reply

-Not all Republicans are Trumpers, but all Republicans decided Trump isn't a dealbreaker.

What does that have to do with the unvaccinated? Many of whom have zero allegiance to Trump.

#285 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 08:52 AM | Reply

-COVID doesn't care about your politics or social status.

Very well said.

#286 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 08:54 AM | Reply

"What does that have to do with the unvaccinated?"

More than it ought to.

#287 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 09:00 AM | Reply

"COVID doesn't care about your politics or social status."

It sure seems to know when your politics or social status makes you a soft target.

#288 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 09:03 AM | Reply

You're just a juvenile searching for an excuse to call someone a Nazi.

#280 | POSTED BY EBERLY

EBERLY, if you don't think this country is filthy with at least proto-Nazis then you've never been interested enough in history to know what a Nazi is.

#289 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 09:05 AM | Reply

"And Zed, you are simply vile. You are so consumed with Trump that you ooze hatred from every pore. Must be a sad existence for you."

Just because Zed didn't believe your story about your sick daughter doesn't mean he is vile. He didn't believe you without proof. To be honest, I was skeptical myself but decided to give you the benefit of the doubt. But we don't know each other, and people can and do lie on the internet, on both sides of the aisle and in the middle. Which is why I mentioned Gracie saying my "recalling" something on the nooner was meaningless to her without proof that what I was "recalling" actually happened. Trust but verify. I realize, however, there is no way to verify the story about your daughter without an unwise invasion of privacy.

#290 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-21 09:17 AM | Reply

And Zed, you are simply vile. You are so consumed with Trump that you ooze hatred from every pore. Must be a sad existence for you.

#262 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

I have a great life, thanks. No thanks to modern "conservatism".

Donald Trump tries to hurt people. He's still trying to hurt me, my family, and my country.

You support Donald Trump. My next point should be obvious to you.

#291 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 09:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"you've never been interested enough in history to know what a Nazi is."

You just described everyone here.

When presented with historical facts regarding the Nazi party, people lose their ---- at the poster who posts them.

Nobody is interested in facts when it comes to understanding what a Nazi is ... .especially you, Zed. You simply and poetically call as many people a Nazi as you can.

Which is fine.

But don't pretend you're fooling anyone.

#292 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 09:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"He's still trying to hurt me, my family, and my country."

Nazis have been gunning for you your whole life though.

You should be able to demonstrate that you've braced for it ... ... at least a little.

It appears you wake up every day with a whole new sense of fear and hostility about it. You can't acclimate yourself to your environment.

#293 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 09:40 AM | Reply

#291 | POSTED BY ZED

via GIPHY

#294 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 09:41 AM | Reply

It appears you wake up every day with a whole new sense of fear and hostility about it. You can't acclimate yourself to your environment.

#293 | POSTED BY EBERLY

What's funny is Zed is probably one of the least hostile people here.

That sore ass kept you awake all night, eh?

#295 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 09:42 AM | Reply

You can't acclimate yourself to your environment.
#293 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It's no surprise to see Eberly counseling Zed that the way to deal with Nazis is to learn to tolerate them.

It's sad, but it's no surprise.

#296 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 09:47 AM | Reply

295

what?

#297 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 09:54 AM | Reply

"is to learn to tolerate them."

Like I said, you first have to understand what they really are.

You just want to hurl a derogatory term at people....and hopefully hurt their feelings.

It doesn't work in case you haven't noticed.

#298 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:02 AM | Reply

-What's funny is Zed is probably one of the least hostile people here.

He calls more people a racist and a Nazi than almost any poster here.

Do you even read his posts?

#299 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:06 AM | Reply

He calls more people a racist and a Nazi than almost any poster here.

#299 | POSTED BY EBERLY

We have a fundamental disagreement in regards to what is happening in American culture.

Take out racism, take out fascism----No Trump and no Trumpites.

#300 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 10:25 AM | Reply

what?

#297 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You've been super butthurt these past few days.

#301 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 10:27 AM | Reply

It appears you wake up every day with a whole new sense of fear and hostility about it. You can't acclimate yourself to your environment.

#293 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I've been shocked and amazed at how wrong I was about this country. I've been shocked and amazed at how quickly at least one-third of it ditched every significant personal value in order to support Donald Trump and his version of America.

As I've said before now, and many times, it's as if they really never had any values at all. Trump just made it safe to crawl into the daylight.

#302 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 10:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I don't know eb, that's a hard characterization to beat.

#303 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 10:33 AM | Reply

301

LOL....assigning butthurt? that's all you got?

#304 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:36 AM | Reply

"Like I said, you first have to understand what they really are."

Throw us a frickin' bone.
What are they, really?

#305 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 10:36 AM | Reply

LOL....assigning butthurt? that's all you got?

#304 | POSTED BY EBERLY

There's not much to have in this catfight.

"if only people wore masks, this miserable ---- would still be alive"
-JPW/Snoofy

#7 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That's pretty butthurt dude. I hadn't even commented on the thread and whine that others would have the audacity to expect people to think about those around them.

*shrugs* hope things get better.

#306 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-21 10:42 AM | Reply

-I've been shocked and amazed at how wrong I was about this country.

So, you're admitting that you can't seem to adapt to the environment you're in.

You see Trump through your own eyes. Just like I do.

So do 300 million other americans. They don't see him through your eyes. Their own....you follow?

They simply don't see what you see. They don't believe they have "ditched every significant personal value"

Personally, I'm amazed at how Trump got elected. I'm not shocked he defeated Hillary Clinton but rather that he wanted the job in the first place. I was certain he would drop out before the end of the GOP primary. I was wrong about that.

But the people you're so upset with don't see the evil you see.

You can place yourself on a pedestal with your enlightenment and look down on so many people for not seeing the evil you see but that's all there is.....your enlightenment.

You're a smart guy, Zed. No doubt about that. But you might use those smarts to recognize where you are and stop being so shocked and amazed every day at the same thing.

#307 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:46 AM | Reply

306

fair enough....but I see my name attributed to made up quotes multiple times every day here.

Literally every day. multiple times. I don't even think about it. The worthless vermin that posts it just begging for attention anyway.

It's trolling really

#308 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:48 AM | Reply

-Take out racism, take out fascism----No Trump and no Trumpites.

Are you going to pretend you haven't been assigning racism and fascism to every leader of the GOP for at least the last 30 years?

You didn't start this little routine with trump. Do you think you did? Or rather...do you think you've fooled us?

#309 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 10:52 AM | Reply

"Are you going to pretend you haven't been assigning racism and fascism to every leader of the GOP for at least the last 30 years?"

Let's up that to 40 years, kicked off in Philadelphia, MS in 1979. Then Don Jr. played the same racist move in 2017. What is it about Philadelphia, MS. that so fascinates Republicans. The town is famous for only one thing, it is the place where they found the three dead Civil Rights workers back in the early 1960's. What other reason do Republicans have for kicking off campaigns from that town if not racism? It's like their "dog whistle" politics but, oh no, don't ever call them racists. Horse manure.

#310 | Posted by danni at 2021-07-21 11:10 AM | Reply

310

Honesty. Danni is honest. She isn't pretending to be shocked at the racism and fascism that is the entire GOP and for at least the last 40 years.

Zed seems to imagine it's new every day.

#311 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 11:15 AM | Reply

"Are you going to pretend you haven't been assigning racism and fascism to every leader of the GOP for at least the last 30 years?"

Forget the leaders.
Look at the policies.
And then listen to Lee Atwater explain it to you again.

#312 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 11:16 AM | Reply

Zed seems to imagine it's new every day.

#311 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm never going to get used to someone -------- on my living room floor. I'm going to react to the ----.

#313 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-21 11:29 AM | Reply

No need to quote, just click on your name and read any of your posts. No. Ok then, tell me something Trump did right and something Biden did wrong.Stumped? Proved my point.

#266 | Posted by Miranda7

No problem - trump destroyed many myths about what republicans stand for. Family values, christianity, responsible spending...he burned those lies to the ground. That's a good thing.

As for biden - he's been awful on how he's letting the previous criminal president go unpunished for attempted to end democracy, cheat elections, and profit from the office.

#314 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 12:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Zed seems to imagine it's new every day.

#311 | POSTED BY EBERLY

His imagination is not near as good as yours.

You seem to imagine that Trumpy and Tumpism is somehow "normal".

Maybe Jan 6 th was not big deal to you. But it is to many of us.

Folks like Zed and so many other Americans will NEVER accept this kind of idiotic and criminal behavior as normal.

You seem to imagine that well, Maybe it's not good but to be expected.

No.

It's not normal behavior. It's criminal. And should be treated as such. Always.

And anyone who tries to normalize this criminal and his minions in any way should be treated accordingly.

You should be shocked and appalled. Everyday. All day. Until they are all held accountable for their actions.

#315 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-07-21 01:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Folks like Zed and so many other Americans will NEVER accept this kind of idiotic and criminal behavior as normal."

Yeah. You will. We know this because many of you on this site did.

When Republicans engage in idiotic and criminal behavior, it's the fault of Republicans.

When the left does it, it's because Republicans incited them to engage in violent acts.

We know this because it occurred across the country all last summer. Most notably in Portland. And many of the posters here were extremely critical of Trump's decision to send Federal Officers to Portland, believing that it would only aggravate the matter further.

If there were participants on this site who thought that the rioters in Portland should be crushed during any of those 120 nights of riots, they remained silent about it.

Maybe JPW. But since he's never really come right out and said it. He may be worried about getting cancelled.

#316 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 02:48 PM | Reply

"Your expectation is that it be 0 for you and 100 for anybody else."

Nope.

It should be zero for those who aren't worried about it and 100% for those who are.

And I'm curious. Is there a point in your mind where masks ever go away? I get that you're attempting to elevate the unvaxxed, but the odds of getting sick or dying are so low as to be immaterial. Would it be the case for you that the possibility of catching COVID is greater than zero, then masks should be mandatory?

#317 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 02:52 PM | Reply

"If there were participants on this site who thought that the rioters in Portland should be crushed during any of those 120 nights of riots, they remained silent about it."

If they had made it inside the Federal courthouse building, nobody would have a problem with the police pushing them back out.

#318 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 02:52 PM | Reply

"I am out of ---- to give for these people that are sick and dying because they REFUSE to a) wear a mask, b) social distance and c) take a vaccine that will keep them from dying."

You shouldn't care.

It's their choice.

I know I don't care.

#319 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 02:59 PM | Reply

"Just because Zed didn't believe your story about your sick daughter doesn't mean he is vile."

Zed often pretends he doesn't believe things when it conflicts with his world view.

That's our Zed:)

#320 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:01 PM | Reply

When Republicans engage in idiotic and criminal behavior, it's the fault of Republicans.

When the left does it, it's because Republicans incited them to engage in violent acts.

#316 | Posted by madbomber

No one blamed george floyd on "republicans". It was blamed on systemic oppression and injustice. If YOU associate that with republicans, that is quite revealing.

Republicans were inspired BY MONTHS OF LIES TOLD BY THEIR LEADERS to attempt to end democracy.

BLM protests weren't inspired by months of deception by liberal leaders. They were inspired by cell phone cameras revealing reality to the world. And they didn't try to end democracy and install fascism as a solution.

#321 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 03:02 PM | Reply

You shouldn't care.

It's their choice.

I know I don't care.

#319 | Posted by madbomber

You don't care because you dont want the pandemic to end. Especially during a democrat administration.

You want things to get worse and more people to suffer because you think it will show that dems couldnt handle covid any better than trump did.

Let us know when dems get a half million people killed with lies and incompetence.

#322 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 03:04 PM | Reply

"If they had made it inside the Federal courthouse building, nobody would have a problem with the police pushing them back out."

They did make it inside.

In fact they set it on fire.

They also destroyed property and attacked Federal Police, and even the Mayor of Portland.

The police tried to push them back.

They failed.

Just as the Capitol Police failed to push back that mob.

#323 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:07 PM | Reply

"You don't care because you dont want the pandemic to end. Especially during a democrat administration."

You know I voted for Biden, right?

And while the Dems are mostly ------- so far as I'm concerned, there is no way I would ever vote for any of Trump's sycophant bootlickers.

Unless Bernie was in a position to take the presidency. It would be a hard choice, but if it's a far-left Trump (Bernie) or Trump himself, I'd Probably go with Trump. He's far less likely to do permanent damage to the country.

#324 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:13 PM | Reply

"You want things to get worse and more people to suffer because you think it will show that dems couldnt handle covid any better than trump did."

That's a complex statement.

On one hand, Trump was very dismissive of COVID. And most of what he said about it was --------.

But at the same time, he caught it and moved on. He basically walked the talk when it came to COVID. Biden hid in a basement. When he said "don't let it control your life," he was speaking from experience.

Trump was also the WARP SPEED guy.

That's not to be dismissive of everything Biden has done to make the vaccine available. I've heard that the US has purchased enough to vaccinate every American five times over.

#325 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:16 PM | Reply

Pfizer had nothing to do with "Warp Speed". Donnie Fail is the "Space Force" dolt, so "Warp Speed" plays into his Star Trek fantasies. And you're a dolt.

#326 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-07-21 03:29 PM | Reply

The police tried to push them back.

They failed.

Just as the Capitol Police failed to push back that mob.

#323 | Posted by madbomber

Were the portland police intentionally understaffed and ordered to stand down that day so the rioters could end democracy?

If not, then your comparison still sucks.

#327 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 03:41 PM | Reply

Trump was also the WARP SPEED guy.

That's not to be dismissive of everything Biden has done to make the vaccine available. I've heard that the US has purchased enough to vaccinate every American five times over.

#325 | Posted by madbomber

Trump's WARP SPEED entailed telling drug makers to GO FAST. Any president would have done the same thing. It was the bare minimum and he deserves no credit for it.

He failed to do HIS part - VACCINE DISTRUBITION - at warp speed. He was too busy pouting that he lost, telling lies, and trying to end democracy to worry about distributing a vaccine.

#328 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 03:43 PM | Reply

Conservatives also rioted and attacked Capitol buildings in Michigan, Tennessee and Kentucky.

But, MythBoofer like to compare Portland with DC.

Because a bunch of Oregonians protesting/rioting at their state Capitol building.

Is the same as Trumpublican politicians inciting a riot and getting Trumpers from across America to attack the Capitol building in DC with claims that they can stop the transfer of power from Trump to Biden.

#329 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-21 03:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Were the portland police intentionally understaffed and ordered to stand down that day so the rioters could end democracy?"

So the Capitol Police Officer who shot Ashli Babbitt had been ordered to stand down?

First I've heard of that.

What do you think the punishment is for an officer who kills someone outside of the line of duty?

A better question, would you be equally defensive of Federal Police in Portland had they started shooting at individuals engaging in violent activity?

#330 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:47 PM | Reply

Also.

According to MythBoofer.

Hitler and Bernie Sanders are the same person.

But. Please. Believe him when he says he's not a Trumper.

He needs you to believe him.

#331 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-21 03:48 PM | Reply

"Conservatives also rioted and attacked Capitol buildings in Michigan, Tennessee and Kentucky."

And Oregon too.

But that's OK, right?

#332 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:49 PM | Reply

"Hitler and Bernie Sanders are the same person."

The same person? Mmmm...not really.

Both did refer to themselves as socialists when they really weren't. Bernie less so than Adolf.

#333 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-07-21 03:50 PM | Reply

So the Capitol Police Officer who shot Ashli Babbitt had been ordered to stand down?

First I've heard of that.

What do you think the punishment is for an officer who kills someone outside of the line of duty?

A better question, would you be equally defensive of Federal Police in Portland had they started shooting at individuals engaging in violent activity?

#330 | Posted by madbomber

That's because you avoid real news.

www.msn.com
"Capitol Police officer allegedly told units to only monitor for 'anti-Trump' protesters on Jan. 6 "

www.nytimes.com
Capitol Police Told to Hold Back on Riot Response on Jan. 6, Report Finds

Meanwhile trump was watching this all on tv letting it happen, and his military cult members were refusing to send in help. Isn't he commander in chief supposed to DEFEND the country? Not watch on tv while it burns.

Trump's cult was in the middle of a terrorist attack. If we can't shoot terrorists during a terrorist attack, who can we shoot? They should have shot more of them.

#334 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 04:39 PM | Reply

-You should be shocked and appalled. Everyday. All day. Until they are all held accountable for their actions.

LOL

#335 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 05:43 PM | Reply

-Maybe Jan 6 th was not big deal to you.

I fully support the criminal prosecution of of everyone involved in 1-6

Including anybody who was involved in the conspiracy.

You told like 5 lies in that post.

Jesus, you're so upset with me you have to engage in such absurd purse swinging?

#336 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 05:47 PM | Reply

I fully support the criminal prosecution of of everyone involved in 1-6

Including anybody who was involved in the conspiracy.

#336 | Posted by eberly

Does that include the people who lied the morons into thinking the election was stolen? That would be most of your party's leaders.

#337 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-21 06:36 PM | Reply

337

If that can be prosecuted. I don't think it is.

I know you need to make me out to be such a bad guy.

Such a traitor to this country. Bad American.

Why? Don't tell me you take that "your party stuff seriously l

#338 | Posted by eberly at 2021-07-21 08:42 PM | Reply

Jesus, you're so upset with me you have to engage in such absurd purse swinging?
#336 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I read my post again. Nope. Not a lie in there.

Trumpy and his minions need to be held accountable as does any who attempts to overthrow our democracy by force.

The fact that you think they are lies that just shows what a real (*censored*) you are and how far from normal you have gone.

#339 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-07-21 09:27 PM | Reply

"They did make it inside."

They breached a fence.

#340 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 10:40 PM | Reply

"Is there a point in your mind where masks ever go away? "

Why would there be?

Is there a point in your mind where hand washing goes away?

It's only been going on for 100 years or so. Meaning we can clearly live without it.

So why do you continue to wash your hands?

#341 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-21 10:50 PM | Reply

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