Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, July 25, 2021

There were at least 915 shooting incidents that killed at least 430 people and left at least 1,007 wounded between Saturday July 17 and Friday, July 23. That translates into a shooting every 12 minutes, according to the data from the Gun Violence Archive.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Let Freedom Ring!

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-25 10:16 PM | Reply

430 people should have had guns.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-07-25 10:18 PM | Reply

Less than the flu so let it wash over you.

#3 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 01:43 AM | Reply

I guess Americans have used Covid time off to practice their aim.

#4 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 01:44 AM | Reply

There's nothing we can do.

- -----------.

#5 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-26 07:28 AM | Reply

America, rapidly on its way to becoming one of the
most violent countries in the world...

Who could have seen this Arc of History happening,
what, with all the easy to get guns?

#6 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-07-26 07:44 AM | Reply

That's strange. My weapons didnt hop up and shoot anyone in my house this weekend. And I've got an entire closet and safe full of them. It's not the guns. It's the culture and mindset of the people.

This, in my opinion, is a weapons rights "hit piece".

If you notice, the race data is never given. This is a problem largely of the poor and of the black community. The community needs to put pressure on it's gang population and it's young male population. That's hard to do. And the only way we can bring these numbers down.

It's not the gun, it's the person pulling the trigger. Solve that and you will solve the "gun" problem without taking a law abiding person's right away from them.

#7 | Posted by boaz at 2021-07-26 08:36 AM | Reply

"This, in my opinion, is a weapons rights "hit piece".

So you're saying despite "the culture and mindset of the people" who do these killings, they should still have Second Amendment rights.

Is that correct?

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 08:41 AM | Reply

#8,

Yes. And why you think they should have their rights taken from them is baffling to me.

#9 | Posted by boaz at 2021-07-26 08:53 AM | Reply

This is the problem Snoofy, not the guns..

www.the-sun.com

#10 | Posted by boaz at 2021-07-26 08:59 AM | Reply

"And why you think they should have their rights taken from them is baffling to me."

I'll explain:
Because they killed 415 people last week.
Why should they have the right to bear arms, if that's what they're going to do with arms?
Baffling.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:00 AM | Reply

I like looking at progressions and patterns.
When the 2nd was written guns weren't particularly effective weapons. They were an improvement for the person shooting them because you could (through probability wasn't high) slow, wound, perhaps fatally wound, and kill someone.
Then weapons became better. More accurate. More powerful.
Now you can take out dozens of people in a minute or two. Easy-peasy, and for under $1,500.
Things aren't going to reverse course.
So following this trend, cheaper, faster, more deadly, it's not hard to imagine we could all potentially have access to "guns" that can kill a hundred people in under a minute. Just a pull of a trigger.
All that in the hands of every human in the United States without any check or registration.

There is no such thing as an always in control perfect human, and when you make guns ubiquitous and accessible by all humans, humans that are upset and to something rash are going to have access to guns. People that have a long simmering problem are going to have access to weapons. We get a Las Vegas, or a Gifford, or a baseball game with Congressional members, or Sandy Hook, on and on and on and on.

Just think about any of the events we've gone through with the weapons we have today, and imagine the weapons are twice as efficient. What would have happened? Five times? Ten times? A hundred times?

Is there ever a point where too much is enough for Americans?

I'm curious.

#12 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 09:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They are war zones, they are vicious, people join gangs and the cycle continues."

So why don't other modern countries have war zones, Boaz? Why don't they have our levels of gun violence?

Are Americans just that much more violent?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:03 AM | Reply

So why don't other modern countries have war zones, Boaz? Why don't they have our levels of gun violence?

There could be millions of reasons. Their culture is stronger. They are more united. They dont have liberals. I dont know. I'm not going to get into that.

#14 | Posted by boaz at 2021-07-26 09:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'll explain:
Because they killed 415 people last week.

And whoever did the murder should and will be punished.

You cannot prevent all human action. Sometimes, it takes the Human to do it.

#15 | Posted by boaz at 2021-07-26 09:07 AM | Reply

You cannot prevent all human action. Sometimes, it takes the Human to do it.

You can make it harder for humans to kill more and more people with the pull of a trigger. There are tradeoffs for everything in life.

#16 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 09:11 AM | Reply

"You cannot prevent all human action."

I didn't say we could. (And you're making the perfect the enemy of the good).

But if we didn't give these kilkers the right to bear arms, there would be less killing.

Not zero killing, but less killing.

You disagree, Boaz?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:17 AM | Reply

"And whoever did the murder should and will be punished."

You're effectively saying murder is okay, so long as the murderer gets punished.

That's hardly a suitable attitude towards murder.
Having to pusinsh murder is a sign of failure.
Success is not having murder to begin with.
You disagree, Boaz?

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:20 AM | Reply

"Acceptable losses."
Like all those kids at Sandy Hook.

#19 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 09:21 AM | Reply

There could be millions of reasons. Their culture is stronger. They are more united. They dont have liberals. I dont know. I'm not going to get into that.
#14 | POSTED BY BOAZ

You say you don't know...
So how can you know it's not the easy access to guns thanks to the Second Amendment?
You say you're not going to get into that, but you already did, when you said it's not guns.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:22 AM | Reply

"Acceptable losses."
Like all those kids at Sandy Hook.

^
I believe this is a fair and accurate summary of Boaz's beliefs.
I'd add Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, and Kennedy to the list as well.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:24 AM | Reply

"There could be millions of reasons."

Or there could be one: they don't have as many guns.

#22 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-26 09:27 AM | Reply

#22 - Succinct and accurate.

#23 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 09:38 AM | Reply

" They are more united. They dont have liberals."

The places in the world with the lowest gun violence "don't have liberals"?!? Canada, Europe, Australia ... no liberals???

Can you taste the stupid when you post something that demonstrably dumb?

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 09:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

There could be millions of reasons. Their culture is stronger. They are more united. They dont have liberals. I dont know. I'm not going to get into that.
#14 | POSTED BY BOAZ

How to admit you are wrong without admitting you are wrong: A lesson by Boaz

You truly are a waste of space.

#25 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-07-26 09:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You cannot prevent all human action. Sometimes, it takes the Human to do it.

#15 | Posted by boaz

So you are calling for the government to take action and prevent violent death by gun? What a turn around.

Sarcasm aside, do you realize just how idiotic that statement is from someone calling for gun rights in the face of increasing gun violence? Why all the gun violence in Central America? MOST of the guns they have are exports from the US both of the legal and illegal form. The organized crime aspect - primarily from the war on drugs - is also a US export to CA.

#26 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-26 10:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Now you can take out dozens of people in a minute or two. Easy-peasy, and for under $1,500.
Things aren't going to reverse course.
So following this trend, cheaper, faster, more deadly, it's not hard to imagine we could all potentially have access to "guns" that can kill a hundred people in under a minute. Just a pull of a trigger.

Easy-peasy...just pull a trigger??

Could you shoot a dozen people that easily?

I couldn't.

#27 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 10:25 AM | Reply

"So following this trend, cheaper, faster, more deadly, it's not hard to imagine we could all potentially have access to "guns" that can kill a hundred people in under a minute."

Aren't we pretty much there?

Didn't the Vegas country music festival shooter hit like 500 people in maybe ten minutes, killing something like 58 of them?

And didn't Andrea, A Mattress call them Crisis Actors?

I feel like Pulse nightclub was only shot up for a matter of minutes too.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:41 AM | Reply

Could you shoot a dozen people that easily?

Stephen Paddock fired more than 1,000 rounds and killed 60, and wounded 411, all in under 10 minutes. That works out to more than 47 people a minute.

#29 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 10:53 AM | Reply

Snoofy - exactly.

#30 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 10:53 AM | Reply

Yav,
That wasn't the question?
Could you do that?

And then there's this:

www.reuters.com

No guns used... violence is a problem especially in the US. The value of life has diminished over my lifetime and that is a culture problem.
I think blaming it all on guns is an easy excuse.

#31 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 11:31 AM | Reply

"I think blaming it all on guns is an easy excuse."

^
Nobody did that.

I think making straw men is an easy avoidance technique.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 11:46 AM | Reply

"I think blaming it all on guns is an easy excuse."
^
Nobody did that.

Just about everyone here has done that.

So what's your solution Snoofy?

#33 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 11:51 AM | Reply

No guns used... violence is a problem especially in the US. The value of life has diminished over my lifetime and that is a culture problem.
I think blaming it all on guns is an easy excuse.

#31 | Posted by ScottE

Spring 2020 - lines outside gun stores all over the country

Spring 2021 - massive spike in shootings and shooting deaths

Duhhhh....I wonder what the connection is?

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 12:42 PM | Reply

Absolutely nothing.

If you think you can prove a link between the two go ahead.

#35 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 12:47 PM | Reply

#35 - LMAO!

Dude. There's this thing called "The World" and there are stats and correlations in every country. It's not a trend. It's a FACT.

#36 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 12:49 PM | Reply

Could you shoot a dozen people that easily?
I couldn't.
#27 | Posted by ScottE

Are we talking Mental Capacity for cold blooded murder or Technical ability and skill? I will assume skill. I have complete confidence in any semi-competent Joe's ability to do what you claim you can't under given circumstances. IF they are out to do it with today's weaponry and even basic training in how to shoot and competency. The closer they are the easier it is too. The only thing stopping you is lacking the technical ability and minimal experience or if you are physically impaired.

I technically have the technical capability to do that. There is no doubt in my mind. It's not like a musket - the high tech of the time that 2A was created. i.e. - Shoot once with a highly inaccurate gun, spend a minute or two reloading. The founding fathers had no concept of a gun like an assault rifle that could shoot over 500 rounds per minute (not that that is sustainable...)

Spraying a handgun into a crowd? You are going to hit someone if you aim at all. If it is a rifle you will be far more accurate and deadly.

Just for famous ones:
- Sandyhook
- Look at the Las Vegas shooter. He was no marksman shooting a fairly long distance. How many did he slaughter and cripple?
- Look at the Synagogue and Church shootings.
- Dance club shooting Florida.
- Any of the weekly (almost daily) shootings of whole families or groups.

Do you REALLY doubt the capabilities of a murderous person with a semi-automatic weapon?

#37 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-26 12:52 PM | Reply

Absolutely nothing.

If you think you can prove a link between the two go ahead.

#35 | Posted by ScottE

That is the link. Massive spike in gun violence follows massive spike in gun purchases.

End of story.

If you need to pretend you don't see the link, that's fine, but you're basically announcing to everyone that you're blind and/or stupid.

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 12:56 PM | Reply

Gun violence happens disproportionately in poorer urban areas. If the number of guns available were the reason as y'all claim than the most gun violence should be happening in rural America because that's where the majority of guns are per person.

Blacks are 13% of the population and 55% of the homicides by gun. 93% of these killings are committed by black offenders. The most likely victim and offender is a male 15-34 years old.

FACTS.

If it was the availability of guns is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?

So I'll ask again what's your solution to curbing gun violence?

#39 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 01:10 PM | Reply

I have the technical ability and the firepower but I couldn't go out and murder people.

Could you?

#40 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 01:13 PM | Reply

Spring 2020 - COVID Virus comes to America
Spring 2021 - 500,000 COVID deaths recorded
Duhhhh....I wonder what the connection is?

Absolutely nothing.
If you think you can prove a link between the two go ahead.
#35 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:15 PM | Reply

So I'll ask again what's your solution to curbing gun violence?
#39 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

Curbing gun access to the kinds of people who killed 415 people last week.

This is what they do in other modern countries, by the way. It's not like I just dreamed this up.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:16 PM | Reply

I have the technical ability and the firepower but I couldn't go out and murder people.

Could you?

#40 | POSTED BY SCOTTE A

Depends
Are they a threat to my loved ones ?
Problem is people can't recognize a threat and have few tools for confronting them

#43 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-26 01:18 PM | Reply

If it was the availability of guns is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?

So I'll ask again what's your solution to curbing gun violence?

#39 | Posted by ScottE

So if the shootings are a result of race and not the availability of guns, then you must think that the number of minorities greatly increased in 2020. Did it?

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 01:19 PM | Reply

Asking that question in #40 and the one in #39 shows you don't seem to have the capacity to understand the answer.

You could put yourself in situations and reexamine your questions on your own.

But your question, could I do it?

It's irrelevant, and frankly a question that was so strange I didn't think to interpret it as a personal inquiry. How many people that shoot and kill someone think they couldn't do it - until something changes and they could? A fit of rage, jealousy, a response from bullying, schizophrenic breakdown, whipped up anger over politics or race? A building resentment until one day the calculation is they have nothing to lose?

Then there's the other side - where guns are everywhere, crime is everywhere, drugs are the only option you see to make money, to survive, and people around you die. There just isn't any hope.

When guns are ubiquitous and so deadly then mayhem happens. We're animals at our core, controlling ourselves, living within our our norms and mores, until we're not.

Why would expect something different to happen?

Seems to me the real question is how can you be so detached from reality that you think more guns that people should make everyone feel safe and that murders, suicides, accidental shootings should go down.

Quite frankly, that is what's bizarre.

#45 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 01:20 PM | Reply

No one wants to change the laws. The shootings continue, at a quickening pace. What episode will be the final straw to end the firearm fever? What person or persons has to die to make it happen? In my experience, many of my gun-totin' friends have a degree of dissociative issues, so they aren't interested, no matter how close to home the victim(s).

I don't have plans to own any firearms, so I will sit in my home office, listening to The Dead, waiting for my turn at the wheel.

#46 | Posted by john47 at 2021-07-26 01:23 PM | Reply

"If it was the availability of guns is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?"

If the availability of abortion is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:30 PM | Reply

"In my experience, many of my gun-totin' friends have a degree of dissociative issues"

Bingo.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:30 PM | Reply

"We're animals at our core ... "

Sucks to your assmar!

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 01:34 PM | Reply

Of the 24K gun deaths how many were suicides? Yeah people died but they would have probably just hung themselves or did it another way.

#50 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 01:36 PM | Reply

Seems to me the real question is how can you be so detached from reality that you think more guns that people should make everyone feel safe and that murders, suicides, accidental shootings should go down.
Quite frankly, that is what's bizarre.

#45 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2021-07-26 01:20 PM |

I never made or even implied that.

I said I think the problem is more culture than the number of guns.

And my question was not irrelevant.

The vast majority of guns owners would never consider using their firearm to murder someone. That was my point and the reason you failed to answer me.

I have no problem with red flag laws provided there's a sworn statement. No anonymous tip.
When you look at many of the recent mass shootings you find out a number of people were concerned and in many cases contacted the authorities who failed to follow up.
The fellow who did the supermarket shooting in Colorado had mental issues that were confirmed by his family and they were also aware he recently purchased a firearm but did nothing.

#51 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 01:45 PM | Reply

#50 The reason thats not really the case is because shooting yourself with a gun is one if the most effective ways to kill.

Let's say you don't have a gun so you take a whole bottle of pills. Well, you can change your mind and call 9-1-1 and they might be able to save you. Or, someone cab find you as you're unconscious and dying and call 9-1-1 and they might be able to save you.

In the UK, the suicide rate went down after they removed the carbon monoxide from the natural gas supply making it harder to kill yourself by sticking your head in the oven and turning on the gas. So no, people didn't always find another way to kill themselves, when the low hanging fruit was taken away.

And frankly, that ought to be readily understood through common sense. Your argument amounts to saying, speed bumps won't slow any traffic, you can still drive over them at speed if you want to. Which is true. But most people don't actually want to.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:46 PM | Reply

"I said I think the problem is more culture than the number of guns."

Aren't those the same thing?
Gun Culture is a thing.

Anyway, it's not at all clear how to change culture.

But all the other modern countries make it obvious how to change the prevalence of guns in society.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:48 PM | Reply

" The reason thats not really the case is because shooting yourself with a gun is one if the most effective ways to kill"

Yep. Gun attempts are successful 85% of the time; other methods total 9%, with one successful suicide for every 11 attempts.

(As a former library rat, we're living in a golden age of information.)

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I said I think the problem is more culture than the number of guns.

#51 | Posted by ScottE

Gun shootings spiked in 2020.

Did the number of minorities spike in 2020, or did the number of guns in people's houses spike in 2020?

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 01:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Anyway, it's not at all clear how to change culture.
But all the other modern countries make it obvious how to change the prevalence of guns in society.

#53 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 01:48 PM

You realize what it would take to repeal the 2nd right? What you want to happen is probably never going to happen. Gun culture is here to stay. We don't live in Europe where the average person has never shot a gun. Everyone I know owns at least one. I don't plan on giving mine up anytime soon because I don't want to have to hope the police get there before the intruder kills me.

#56 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 01:52 PM | Reply

"Of the 24K gun deaths how many were suicides?"

About two-thirds.

Are you suggesting suicide isn't worth preventing? To hell with those 22 veterans a day?

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:52 PM | Reply

If it was the availability of guns is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?"

If the availability of abortion is the problem why are the demographics skewed so heavily toward one group?

#47 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 01:30 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

In the second example you mean women??

Somebody please help Snoofy out.

#58 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 01:53 PM | Reply

"You realize what it would take to repeal the 2nd right?"

You realize what it would take to curb gun violence right?

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:53 PM | Reply

"In the second example you mean women??"

In your example you mean men??

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:55 PM | Reply

" The vast majority of guns owners would never consider using their firearm to murder someone."

True. But that's overshadowed by the clear odds (~3-1) the gun is more likely to kill a household member than an intruder.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 01:56 PM | Reply

#54 - this is again so frikken obvious and yet you will see the gun proponents avoid that simple fact over and over.

The vast majority of guns owners would never consider using their firearm to murder someone. That was my point and the reason you failed to answer me.

I did answer you. "Most gun owners never consider using their firearm to murder someone" - until they do. It may be rage, jealousy, a fight, and if they hadn't had the gun handy and killed someone, they might have just cooled off and it would have been over. I've seen it in my own personal life several times over.

#62 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-26 01:57 PM | Reply

" if they hadn't had the gun handy and killed someone, they might have just cooled off and it would have been over"

What we need is bullet control!
m.youtube.com

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 02:00 PM | Reply

"The vast majority of guns owners would never consider using their firearm to murder someone."

The vast majority of people who kill anyone with the guns they own, kill themselves.

The vast majority of children who kill themselves with guns do it with an unlocked, loaded gun in the home.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 02:05 PM | Reply

I don't plan on giving mine up anytime soon because I don't want to have to hope the police get there before the intruder kills me.
#56 | POSTED BY BYRDMAN

You having guns isn't the problem.
You're not likely to invade any homes.

But, your hostility to the concept of keeping guns out of the hands of people who do invade homes? That is in fact the problem.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 02:11 PM | Reply

But, your hostility to the concept of keeping guns out of the hands of people who do invade homes? That is in fact the problem.

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 02:11 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

I have no problem with the concept, it's the implementation I'm concerned about.

Children who kill themselves with guns is a trajedy and it's the fault of irresponsible parents. And Snoofy I deal with irresponsible parents all the time...the consequences to the children are always bad.

#66 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 03:00 PM | Reply

There were at least 915 shooting incidents that killed at least 430 people

Trump killed 600,000+ Americans with a virus, and 73 million Americans voted for him.

You think anyone cares 915 shooting resulted in 439 dead people?

That's about 2 deaths per shooting.

Insignificant.

#67 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-26 03:08 PM | Reply

"Children who kill themselves with guns is a trajedy and it's the fault of irresponsible parents."

Blaming the parents doesn't bring the children back.

Blaming people doesn't solve anything.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 03:17 PM | Reply

"I have no problem with the concept"

You sure about that?
You had a problem with this concept earlier:

Spring 2020 - lines outside gun stores all over the country
Spring 2021 - massive spike in shootings and shooting deaths
Duhhhh....I wonder what the connection is?
#34 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Absolutely nothing.
If you think you can prove a link between the two go ahead.
#35 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

But if you're no longer fighting that battle, then I won't keep driving the point home.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 03:23 PM | Reply

No, it doesn't bring them back
Unfortunately he behavior of irresponsible parents causes the death of children I'm a number of ways.
Who do think is responsible for a child getting hold of a loaded unlocked gun and killing themselves or someone else?

#70 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 03:53 PM | Reply

"Who do think is responsible for a child getting hold of a loaded unlocked gun and killing themselves or someone else?"

The Founding Fathers, who wrote the Second Amendment.

Americans, who can't find a way to keep our society safe from gun violence.

The parents, who shouldn't have been trusted with guns by the Founding Fathers or by Americans in the first place.

It takes a village. It takes a village that's okay with gun violence to allow this much gun violence in the village.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 03:58 PM | Reply

Snoofy my Gun is inside a safe that is locked. Inside the safe is a gun box that is locked. So behind 2 locks. At night before I sleep I get the keys situated so I can access my gun in case I have an intruder. Only as a last resort. My cat set off the one of my motion detection cameras. I yelled I have a loaded gun leave my house. I figure I'll give one warning in case it was some stupid drunk kid at the wrong house. Then if they don't leave I figure they mean to do me harm. So I figure behind 2 locks I'm not worried about an accidental shooting.

#72 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 03:59 PM | Reply

#72 As I said earlier, I'm not worried about you, or your guns. You're a responsible gun owner.

What percentage of gun murders do you think are done by responsible gun owners? My estimate is right around zero percent.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 04:02 PM | Reply

Adults with children who keep guns at home should train their children in gun use and safety, early and often.

As a child growing up, my parents had a gun. I knew what it was and not to use it. I learned misusing the gun could result in injury or death.

Educating children is valuable. Children are smarter than most people give them credit for being.

There are no excuses for having a gun at home and not talking to your kids about it.

#74 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-07-26 04:05 PM | Reply

"Children are smarter than most people give them credit for being."

Far smarter, in my opinion. I think we could start teaching algebra when we start teaching how to read.

Back on topic, for most of us, meanness is a learned behavior. Disregard for human life is not the natural state for humans.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 04:11 PM | Reply

Corrections:
1. US gun deaths are about 40k, not 24k, there were 24k suicides.
en.wikipedia.org
2. US gun violence is not due to number of guns, Canada, Finland and Switzerland have similar rates of gun ownership, but far lower gun deaths. (gun per capita data, but I think US guns per owner is higher, en.wikipedia.org)
3. The vast majority of gun owners claim they would never murder, but many murderers would have claimed that, their claims are empty like spouses and cheating.
4. Murder is not mostly caused by poor young black men, even if half of murderers are black men. That is the same as blaming gun deaths on gun owners, the vast majority of poor young black men are not murderers. The non-murder percentage for all races is above 99.9%.

US gun deaths are due to two main causes.
1. A sick pro murder culture. (the constant repeated fantasies of defending your family or property by killing an attacker, vigilantism, when in reality most murdered women were murdered by their partner)
2. Almost no control over who possesses guns. The 2A cult won't let effective regulation of who can have guns be enforced, so any kook can easily get a gun.

#76 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 04:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Gun crimes in the US are overwhelmingly committed by men. Why are American men so violent and irresponsible?

#77 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-07-26 04:58 PM | Reply

#77 Exactly, because weak men need guns.

#78 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 05:07 PM | Reply

Gun crimes in the US are overwhelmingly committed by men. Why are American men so violent and irresponsible?

#77 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

I read a recent explanation that makes sense - as life gets harder for everyone but the rich, it's harder for men to feel masculine. You don't feel like a real man when you can't keep a job, can't provide good shelter or education for your wife and kids, can't take them all to disneyland. It's emasculating.

But that all is fixed when you buy a gun. Suddenly your masculinity is back. Sure you still can't provide for your family, but you can PROTECT them, or so you think.

Men turning to guns in order to feel like men is yet another result of an winner-take-all economy that pampers the rich and screws everyone else.

#79 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 05:17 PM | Reply

...But I never picked cotton...

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 05:34 PM | Reply

I have no problem with the concept"
You sure about that?
You had a problem with this concept earlier:

No I didn't.

We were talking about the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm all for that.

#81 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 05:39 PM | Reply

But that all is fixed when you buy a gun. Suddenly your masculinity is back. Sure you still can't provide for your family, but you can PROTECT them, or so you think.
Men turning to guns in order to feel like men is yet another result of an winner-take-all economy that pampers the rich and screws everyone else.

#79 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-07-26 05:17 PM

You really believe this nonsense? Most of my friends have guns, and they all have decent jobs. I do own a gun for protection because I didn't want to have to rely on a bat or a butcher knife. The chance is very low I'll ever need to use it, but it isn't 0.

#82 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 05:44 PM | Reply

#77 Exactly, because weak men need guns.

#78 | POSTED BY BORED AT 2021-07-26 05:07 PM

So the rancher in Montana who needs to shoot wolves is weak because he doesn't rip them apart with his bare hands?

#83 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 05:45 PM | Reply

I read a recent explanation that makes sense - as life gets harder for everyone but the rich, it's harder for men to feel masculine. You don't feel like a real man when you can't keep a job, can't provide good shelter or education for your wife and kids, can't take them all to disneyland. It's emasculating.
But that all is fixed when you buy a gun. Suddenly your masculinity is back. Sure you still can't provide for your family, but you can PROTECT them, or so you think.
Men turning to guns in order to feel like men is yet another result of an winner-take-all economy that pampers the rich and screws everyone else.

#79 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

That might explain why some men buy guns but it doesn't explain why American men use them to commit violent crimes with a much higher frequency than American women or men in other countries with high rates of gun ownership.

#84 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-07-26 05:48 PM | Reply

That might explain why some men buy guns but it doesn't explain why American men use them to commit violent crimes with a much higher frequency than American women or men in other countries with high rates of gun ownership.

#84 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE AT 2021-07-26 05:48 PM

Life in America is super stressful. Way too many men have jobs where their bosses push them to the limit. So they go home at the breaking point and get set off. I think it's our culture. They have socialism and better worker protections so they aren't under so much pressure.

#85 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

76 | POSTED BY BORED AT 2021-07-26 04:14 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

I think you're spot on with your first cause....a sick pro murder culture.

It's strange that I mentioned that several times already and it was immediately shot down. I think you left gang life off the list and is a major contributor to gun violence.

Maybe partly for the explanation that Speak gave.

I don't believe that being pro 2nd amendment necessarily means one is against any and all gun regulation.

#86 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 05:51 PM | Reply

#79 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-07-26 05:17 PM

You really believe this nonsense? Most of my friends have guns, and they all have decent jobs. I do own a gun for protection because I didn't want to have to rely on a bat or a butcher knife. The chance is very low I'll ever need to use it, but it isn't 0.

#82 | Posted by byrdman

You think it's NONSENSE than guns are associated with masculinity?

Ok so you just ruined all your credibility.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 06:22 PM | Reply

That might explain why some men buy guns but it doesn't explain why American men use them to commit violent crimes with a much higher frequency than American women or men in other countries with high rates of gun ownership.

#84 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

Because people snap more in a country where you see wealth all around you, but the wealthy keep screwing the poor out of any chance to no longer be poor. Combine that with easy access to guns and you get a lot of people snapping and shooting other people.

#88 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 06:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My father kept a loaded .357 revolver in the nightstand next to his bed. He was drunk a lot. After I left home for the AF, I never went there after dark, for sure!

#89 | Posted by john47 at 2021-07-26 06:28 PM | Reply

88 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-07-26 06:24 PM | REPLY

Good point...as mobility has decreased in the US the violence has ticked up.

#90 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 06:34 PM | Reply

My father kept a loaded .357 revolver in the nightstand next to his bed. He was drunk a lot. After I left home for the AF, I never went there after dark, for sure!

#89 | Posted by john47

Years ago when my then new brother-in-law and sister visited, he literally pulled one gun from a shoulder holster, another from behind his back, and one from his ankle and set them on an end table. I literally had to tell him, "I'm going out and won't be back until late. If you hear someone coming in late it's me. DON'T SHOOT ME!"

#91 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-26 06:38 PM | Reply

#86 I left off gang violence, as the root cause is mostly the war on drugs. That funds the gangs and leads cops to view their jobs as combat with people that look like gang members, and all the problems that come with that. Why do we force cops into a war zone for no value to society other than keeping po folk down.

I am anti-gun, but if you check your biases it is easy to see mass shootings and acquaintance shootings are caused by mental illness and/or male humiliation, not just easy access to guns. Gun suicide is easy access to guns. I consider gang shootings to be business shootings. We need to legalize sales and get the violence out and fund treatment.

I don't have an issue with JPW or Bozo having guns locked up or at the range, but I do think men under 30 should have their partner and parents permission to buy a gun. The ----------- have spoiled it for the sane, so pre-adult men should have the 2A infringed.

#92 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 07:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm all for legalization and/or decriminalization of all drugs.

Gang violence is a huge part of the gun violence problem. I posted some stats earlier...blacks are 13% of the population and are 55% of the gun homicides, and have a black shooter 93% of the time. The most frequent victim of a gun homicide is a black male between 15-34....81 deaths per 100,000. For all Americans it's 12 per 100,000.

#93 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 07:45 PM | Reply

I agree with you about the mass shootings and acquaintance shootings and said previously I support red flag laws.

Mass shootings while horrendous are a very small part of the overall gun violence problem.

It's clear there's no one solution to the problem.

#94 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 07:52 PM | Reply

We were talking about the idea of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm all for that.
#81 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

Then you can't be for the Second Amendment, because the Second Amendment gives criminals the right to bear arms.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:13 PM | Reply

I don't believe that being pro 2nd amendment necessarily means one is against any and all gun regulation.
#86 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

Regardless of what you believe or don't believe, the Second Amendment is why we can't have the kinds of gun regulation they have in every other modern country.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:16 PM | Reply

It's clear there's no one solution to the problem.
#94 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

It's clear there's no solution at all. Because of the Second Amendment.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:17 PM | Reply

The floggings will continue until you totally agree with me.
- snoofster

#98 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 09:48 PM | Reply

egardless of what you believe or don't believe, the Second Amendment is why we can't have the kinds of gun regulation they have in every other modern country.
#96 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 09:16 PM

Snoofy the second doesn't say we can't have regulations. It just says we have a right to bear arms. Felons can't bear arms. Mentally ill people can't bear them. Fully automatic weapons aren't legal. There can be plenty of regulation. What will never happen is what happened in Australia. A complete repeal of gun ownership.

#99 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 09:51 PM | Reply

"Mentally ill people can't bear them."

--------.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 09:54 PM | Reply

#97 The 2A already has limits/infringements that conservative SCOTUS members agree with.
I don't think it is impossible to get agreement to run an experiment on the outcomes of different interpretations of the 2A.

Washington can go full Communist Satan worshippers and add red flag laws.
Texas can put gun vending machines in schools.
In a few years we will have data that the Reich wing will ignore, but at least I don't live in Texas.

#101 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 09:55 PM | Reply

Oh, and I want Florida to allow shooting guns in the air. That will be cool to watch on YouTube.

#102 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 09:57 PM | Reply

#99 I hope you have learned how wrong you are. Shame on you. Now agree with me.

#103 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 09:58 PM | Reply

"Mentally ill people can't bear them."

Aurora, Virginia Tech, Newtown, Columbine, whoever shot that sniper guy. There are countless more examples.

To come close to achieve what you claim, we would have to judge mental fitness as a requirement to purchase. The Second Amendment makes that illegal, period, end of story.

The the widespread availability of weapons means mentally ill people can quite easily get them -- even if they (a) have a disqualifying diagnosis (b) which the gun-loving cops have entered in NICS (c) and they're not buying from a private party or a gun show.

The system is like a firewall with a default Allow All rule.

Putting the onus on gun stores to deny the sale of weapons, which is how they earn their livelihood, is like telling a fisherman with a fish on the hook that he can't reel it in. It flies in the face of the reason for having a gun store business in the first place.

Anybody can see this. They just have to want to see it.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:07 PM | Reply

"What will never happen is what happened in Australia. A complete repeal of gun ownership."

I agree, and I'm not proposing that.

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:09 PM | Reply

Unless we have a complete gun ban there is no way of stopping every disqualified person from touching a gun. That would mean not even cops should have them since they have been known to be crazy as well. This isn't going to ever happen. It's a pipe dream. Here are the countries with complete gun bans. Take your pick China - Restricted
Eritrea " Banned
India " Restricted
Indonesia " Restricted
Iran " Restricted
Japan " Restricted
Lebanon " Restricted
Malaysia " Restricted
North Korea " Banned
Singapore " Restricted
Taiwan " Restricted
Venezuela " Restricted
Vietnam " Restricted

#106 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 10:13 PM | Reply

The floggings will continue until you totally agree with me.
- snoofster

1. It's funny because it's true.

2. And the shootings will continue too.
There's no "until."
The shootings will simply continue.

And when they continue in Chicago, right-wingers will crow about them, thinking they're rubbing our faces in it. As though gun violence enabled by their beloved Second Amendment somehow shows the failure of liberal policies.

Well, if it's a failure of liberal policies, they've yet to offer any solutions.

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:14 PM | Reply

#106 Those are --------- countries, -------.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:15 PM | Reply

"Unless we have a complete gun ban there is no way of stopping every disqualified person from touching a gun."

Congrats on making the perfect the enemy of the good.

Go get your GED and try again.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:16 PM | Reply

Well, except for Japan. Japan isn't a --------- country. Singapore too.

Both have gun murders in the single digits per year.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 10:22 PM | Reply

The federal Gun Control Act of 1968, codified at 18 U.S.C. 922, generally prohibits the sale to, and possession of firearms by, a person who:

Has been convicted of, or is under indictment for:
A federal crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year (typically a felony)

A state crime that is not classified as a misdemeanor and is punishable by imprisonment for more than one year

A state crime that is classified as a misdemeanor under state law and is punishable by more than two years imprisonment

Is a fugitive from justice

Is "an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance"5
Though certain states have legalized the use of medical and recreational marijuana, it remains illegal under federal law. Therefore, ATF considers people who use marijuana legally under state law unlawful users of a controlled substance.

Is underage

Has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to
be a danger to self or others, or to "lack[] the mental capacity to contract or manage [their] own affairs," as a result of their mental condition or illness

Has been involuntarily hospitalized or committed to a mental health or substance abuse treatment facility by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. (This prohibition does not apply when a person is admitted for treatment voluntarily or when a person is only hospitalized for short-term observation without longer-term commitment or court-ordered treatment.)8

Is unlawfully in the United States or has been admitted to the US under a nonimmigrant visa

Has been dishonorably discharged from the US Armed Forces

Has renounced their US citizenship

Is subject to an active court order restraining them from harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner, their child, or a child of a partner, or from engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child

Has been convicted of a misdemeanor offense of domestic violence9

#111 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 11:39 PM | Reply

"The federal Gun Control Act of 1968, codified at 18 U.S.C. 922, generally prohibits the sale to, and possession of firearms by, a person who:"

1. How's all that enforced, exactly?

2. If someone has never had any of those things, you're telling me you can vouch for their safety?

"Has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to
be a danger to self or others, or to "lack[] the mental capacity to contract or manage [their] own affairs," as a result of their mental condition or illness"

How many dangerous people do you think have achieved this threshold?

Do you understand the difference between a whitelist and a blacklist?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 11:46 PM | Reply

Then you can't be for the Second Amendment, because the Second Amendment gives criminals the right to bear arms.
#95 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 09:13 PM | REPLY |

Wrong. And you know it.

#113 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 11:56 PM | Reply

1. How's all that enforced, exactly?

How are any laws enforced?

2. If someone has never had any of those things, you're telling me you can vouch for their safety?

Why you leaving it up to me to vouch for the mental health of 350 million citizens?

How many dangerous people do you think have achieved this threshold?

I don't know, how many?

#114 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-27 12:14 AM | Reply

"Wrong. And you know it."

Did Lee Harvey Oswald buy a gun or not?

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 01:08 AM | Reply

Did Sirhan Sirhan buy a gun or not?

Did John Hinckley buy a gun or not?

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 01:13 AM | Reply

"Why you leaving it up to me to vouch for the mental health of 350 million citizens?"

Thanks to the Second Amendment, nobody has to do that before they can buy a gun.

If you support the Second Amendment, you support that.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 01:14 AM | Reply

Did Lee Harvey Oswald buy a gun or not

The Gun Control Act was 1968. Oswald assassinated Kennedy in 1963.

What's your point?

#118 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-27 01:22 AM | Reply

Damn, it makes me so proud to be a Canadian. The hockey fights can go a bit overboard, but I'll take it.

#119 | Posted by Jaspar at 2021-07-27 01:24 AM | Reply

In Canada you are on the precipice of not being allowed to have many types of paintball guns and no airsoft guns. Very ironic given the Canadian governments stake in Kore Outdoor which owns GI Sportz, in partnership with Richmond Italia whom bought Remington. It owns the majority of the global paintball industry.

#120 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-27 07:58 AM | Reply

#120 - At least you've moderated that post from previous assertion to "on the precipice."

#121 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-27 09:10 AM | Reply

I've commented here on C21 before? Don't remember that. I do know some of the Canadians that have been in front of their Parliament to speak about how it's criminalizes hobbyists playing games at small businesses to address an issue that is not an issue.

#122 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-27 09:33 AM | Reply

Gun ownership is a right.

Voting is a right.

Only one is constantly restricted by the GOP.

#123 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-27 10:10 AM | Reply

Then you can't be for the Second Amendment, because the Second Amendment gives criminals the right to bear arms.
#95 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-07-26 09:13 PM | REPLY |

Wrong. And you know it.

#113 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-07-26 11:56 PM | Reply | Flag

Texas will now let people carry handguns without first getting a background check and training, becoming the latest and largest on a growing list of states to roll back permitting requirements for carrying guns in public.

Background checks are required to buy guns at licensed dealers, but Texas doesn't require them for private gun sales.

www.nbcdfw.com

#124 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-27 10:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I've commented here on C21 before?

Hm. I was pretty sure it was you that said they were banned, and I responded with paintball orgs that were active in Canada. Perhaps it wasn't you. If not, mea culpa.

#125 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-27 10:22 AM | Reply

The Gun Control Act was 1968. Oswald assassinated Kennedy in 1963.
What's your point?
#118 | POSTED BY SCOTTE

That criminals and the mentally ill routinely purchase guns in America.

Do you think the Virginia Tech shooter was mentally ill?
Do you think the Virginia Tech shooter purchased guns?
"Cho, a mentally unsound individual, was able to purchase two handguns despite state laws that should have prevented such a purchase."

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 10:32 AM | Reply

"Cho, a mentally unsound individual, was able to purchase two handguns despite state laws that should have prevented such a purchase."

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 10:32 AM | Reply | Flag

The issue here is humans. Humans that allow mentally unstable individuals to buy weapons to kill with.

Yet whenever anything is mentioned about strengthening laws that would prevent mentally unstable people from buying weapons the cancervaturds immediately throw up "See they are coming to confiscate our guns!" hyperbole.

Are they admitting that they are mentally unstable? It sure seems that way.

#127 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-27 11:01 AM | Reply

Georgia spa killings: Robert Aaron Long given 4 life sentences after guilty plea. www.foxnews.com
The Atlanta-Journal Constitution reported he purchased the gun earlier that day. heavy.com

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 04:37 PM | Reply

Record gun sales during COVID are coming home to roost. This is not a violence problem, or a gang problem, big cities all over the world have many of the same problems we have in our big cities without the accompanying gunplay. The difference is that we have more guns per capita than any other first-world country by far! This weekend I read a news story from Texas, where a dude saw his ex-wife and her new boyfriend at a football game, so he went and shot them both dead, along with her unborn baby, yeah how's that party of the unborn? We're going to be seeing more and more stories like that. Then we'll see people who see the ex approaching with a gun on his hip, and they'll open fire fearing that the ex was going to shoot first. This will get far worse and I don't see it ever getting better as long as the GQP are beholden to the terrorist NRA who are supported by Russian funds.

#129 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2021-07-27 04:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What a pathetic shame that our once-great country is ruled by gun nuts and Trump rubes and the dumb religious conservatives.
Guess the second amendment means you don't have a "right to life" after all.

#130 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-07-27 06:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2021 World Readable

Drudge Retort