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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, July 26, 2021

A new study from Ernst & Young has revealed that out of those looking to buy their next car, 41 percent are interested in going electric.

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...EY surveyed consumers from 13 major international markets (Australia, Canada, China, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, South Korea, Sweden, the UK, and the US) and found that the degree of interest varies by country -- only 17 percent of Australian consumers are thinking of going electric, compared with 48 percent of those in China and 63 percent in Italy. But overall, the shift marks a significant 11 percent jump in EV interest from EY's study last year.

"This represents a breakthrough moment in consumer attitudes that could hugely accelerate demand for EVs and alternative powertrain vehicles," the study concluded. "Previously, many consumers expressed generalized concerns over sustainability, but those concerns did not translate into action when it came to buying their next car."...



#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 11:32 AM | Reply

"This represents a breakthrough moment in consumer attitudes that could hugely accelerate demand for EVs and alternative powertrain vehicles,"

Have there been recent huge gains in battery technology? Until recently, there didn't seem to be a lot of electric mowers to choose. But after buying and using one, I'll never go back.

#2 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 11:36 AM | Reply

Until recently, there didn't seem to be a lot of electric mowers to choose.

Power tools in general. I'm getting quite a collection of cordless drills, saws, impact wrenches and they work surprisingly well.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-07-26 11:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" I'm getting quite a collection "

Agreed. I'm about to add a blower and string trimmer. And all with the same battery and charger.

#4 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 11:52 AM | Reply

@#2 ... Have there been recent huge gains in battery technology? ...

The move from NiCad (nickel-cadmium) to Li-Ion (lithium ion) was a significant move forward in the power-to-size ratio.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 11:52 AM | Reply

" The move from NiCad (nickel-cadmium) to Li-Ion (lithium ion) was a significant move forward in the power-to-size ratio."

It shows.

I had one of those "Where has this been all my life?" moments after using the super lightweight mower.

Like I said, I'm never going back.

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 11:56 AM | Reply

Have there been recent huge gains in battery technology? Until recently, there didn't seem to be a lot of electric mowers to choose. But after buying and using one, I'll never go back.

#2 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-07-26 11:36 AM | FLAG:

Not really. The 18650 battery cell is 27 years old at this point. It's cylindrical and less efficient than flat pouch and prismatic cells but very cheap at this point. $1.20/unit on AliBaba in quantities over 1000. Standard, single cell 3.7v - 4.2v setup. The big deal Tesla pushed at a Battery Day was first "2170" cells which is bigger so you get slightly better densities and iirc has a better "C Rating" which gives a better sustained output. The 4680 cell has not made it to production, this would increase their platforms power density by simply being more efficient in space and weight. The batteries chemistry is what it is, but the packaging continues to improve.

#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#7 ... The 18650 battery cell is 27 years old at this point. ...

Yeah, that Li-Ion battery has been arund a while, but it has been only relatively recently where those Li-Ion batteries have replaced the NiCad batteries in consumer use. That replacement made the big difference in consumer cordless goods.

A lawn trimmer I bought 10 years ago used a NiCad battery.

The replacement lawn trimmer that I bought a couple of years ago uses a Li-Ion battery that is half the size and lasts longer (30+ minutes of use for the Li-Ion vs about 15 to 20 minutes for the NiCad). I used to use two NiCad batteries to get through the trimming tasks for my lawn. With the Li-Ion, I use just one.

It is that increased power-to-size ratio that has the Li-Ion batteries effectively pushing the NiCad batteries out of the consumer market.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 12:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Count me in.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-26 12:39 PM | Reply

@#6 ... the super lightweight mower. ...

Another aspect of the Li-Ion batteries is that they pack a higher voltage per size than what had been done with the NiCads.

It is now common to see power tools (and lawn mowers) with 48 volt or higher battery packs. The NiCads I had were 6 volt and 12 volt capable, occasionally you'd see an 18 volt NiCad battery pack.

The higher voltage of the Li-Ion batteries means that the motor uses less amperage to attain the same power output.

Less amperage means less copper in the motor windings, and that leads to less weight.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 01:02 PM | Reply

I've always had a lawn service and commercially you're never going electric until you can sustain 8 hours of use a day on 1 pack. They don't cut it on my club's property either, too big, or there'd be robo-mowers in use. On hand tools I've been all electric for awhile. Currently have a complete Porter Cable 20v set and love it.

All of my model aircraft are electric except for one so I've had an abundance of flat pack lipos for over a decade. Electric dominates small scale flying and is great for the front yard or park. Light, clean, quiet, and you can put a dozen batteries in a pocket and fly 2 hours. The NiCads for flight were not good but lipos made it very enticing. 20cc is the price point where gasoline engines are preferable to electric and unfortunately has not budged in years.

#11 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 01:03 PM | Reply

" commercially you're never going electric until you can sustain 8 hours of use a day on 1 pack. "

Before the bride and I moved in together, we both had large yards that took 2-3 hrs to cut. When considering our current home, I asked the owners how long it took to mow.

"20 minutes, front and back."

"SOLD!"

I can mow at least twice on one charge.

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 01:16 PM | Reply


@#11 ... I've always had a lawn service and commercially you're never going electric until you can sustain 8 hours of use a day on 1 pack. ...

Yup. I could see a situation in some instances where there's a pack before lunch, and another after. But I'd say that would be the limit.

Another issue with the battery packs in a commercial environment is the life span. The NiCads seemed to have about a three year life based upon what I saw in my usage. I don't know how the Li-Ions fare at this point.

... Currently have a complete Porter Cable 20v set and love it. ...

I had a Porter Cable cordless drill. A substantial tool, built to last.

Unfortunately, the replacement NiCad battery pack was more expensive than buying a new cordless drill.... :(

#13 | Posted by lamplighter at 2021-07-26 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"commercially you're never going electric until you can sustain 8 hours of use a day on 1 pack."

The landscaping crew at the office in La Jolla was already using battery powered leaf blowers three years ago.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:21 PM | Reply

Electric mowers out-torque the gas ones now. The battery packs push harder than the 110v 100' orange extension cord of old.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-26 01:23 PM | Reply

I'm looking at the Ford Maverick Hybrid. AWD truck for 20K. Sounds good to me.

#16 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 01:23 PM | Reply

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2021-07-26 01:17 PM | FLAG:

eh, this feels more like mid-grade consumer quality but the hammer drill does in fact hammer so I'm happy.

#17 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 01:38 PM | Reply

I don't know how the Li-Ions fare at this point.

#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2021-07-26 01:17 PM | FLAG:

This depends entirely on how you treat it. You can get 6 years out of one with only a 10% increase in internal resistance if you baby it. There's some good rules to live by.

* Don't leave it at 100%. If you top off you need to discharge to 90% as soon as possible, within an hour preferably. Any period of non-use needs to be left at a 50% "storage" charge. Don't go under 10%. This is one of the biggest. Never ever violate your Low Volt warning. A cell goes down to 3.7v, but charged is 4.2v. In cars they used throttle maps to cover up the voltage loss for a consistent driving experience. In planes and drones you much more directly feel the loss in performance over time and use should a voltage alarm and flight timer to mitigate potential for power loss crashes.

Charge at 1C max. That's a 1 hour charge rate. Everybody wants a fast charge but it's horrible for your battery life and one of the main places research focuses on improving. Whenever convenient have a lot of battery packs and a multi-channel charger so you can charge at least 4 "bricks" at 1C simultaneously.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 01:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Wow. Thanks all, for some great info and advice!

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 02:02 PM | Reply

@#18 ... This depends entirely on how you treat it. ...

Sadly, I learned about the 100% rule too late.

I suspect that is what did it for me.

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 02:09 PM | Reply

" Any period of non-use needs to be left at a 50% "storage" charge."

Does that mean I have to keep running it if the battery has a higher charge? And is a non-use period two weeks, or do you mean months?

"Don't go under 10%."

Yikes! I always heard "rechargeable " batteries should be exhausted the first time. Have I screwed up already?

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-07-26 02:17 PM | Reply

@#21 ... I always heard "rechargeable " batteries should be exhausted the first time. Have I screwed up already? ...

That was probably due to the so-called "memory effect" of NiCads.

Memory effect
en.wikipedia.org

As a rule, with Li-Ion I do not deep discharge them.

#22 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-26 02:24 PM | Reply

#21 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-07-26 02:17 PM | FLAG:

I consider it a week or more. I also have battery chargers with a Storage Charge setting that will charge or discharge them as needed. It discharges slowly which is also very healthy for the battery. Rapid charge and discharge is always unhealthy (but convenient and/or fun). Also important is cooling. Tesla for example has active cooling. A Leaf does not. The Leaf battery is going to degrade faster than the Tesla under most circumstances. You want to keep them in a cool place, sub 70F if possible.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 03:02 PM | Reply

I'm hoping my next car will be no car. As long as I continue to live close to a population center I expect that self-driving electric vehicles will replace many/most taxi/uber/etc drivers by the time I need to replace my current vehicle. That should make the system more predictable and efficient.

Also, bought an electric chainsaw recently. Didn't really expect a whole lot from it. Picked it up for lighter jobs. Was happy to find it is a lot more powerful than I expected. Allowed me to get rid of my noisy gas saw.

#24 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-07-26 03:42 PM | Reply

Also, bought an electric chainsaw recently.

I have one of those coming in the mail.

#25 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-07-26 03:54 PM | Reply

Less amperage means less copper in the motor windings, and that leads to less weight.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter

Plastic everything like say including a deck also helps.

I have an Ego (not the new x-blade ones) but the thing does not cut as well as my gas powered mower. It seems to have enough torque but I think it is the blade design and POSSIBLY blade speed. It does not "suck" the grass up to be cut. I have to run over stuff twice to get it to cut and basically each back and forth is overlapped 50%. When I get into thick stuff you can here it rev up but it takes WAY too long for that to happen and it spins down too fast. I did a bunch of research, the only other ones I would have considered last year were the Makita and Greenworks twin blade 80v, I really wanted the x-blade ego but this was a Home Depot getting out of Ego clearance too good to pass up and I should have...

#26 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-26 04:00 PM | Reply

Small ICE maintenance sucks if rarely used.

#27 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 04:42 PM | Reply

#23 Great info. What battery charger do you recommend? The ones that come with the tool seem to just charge to 100%.
Also, what is the tradeoff sweet spot between convenience of having a full charge vs the capacity loss over time compared to staying at 50% between uses. I have lots of tools that go months between uses, some corded, some battery.

Is there some tool use case calculator app that recommends battery charge to 100%, battery charge to 50% with special charger, corded, multiple battery packs at 50% for endurance but at extra pack cost? If there isn't, can you build one for me for free, Tx.

#28 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 04:51 PM | Reply

For a power tool? Batteries are so cheap you just buy more. For a mower I don't know, it would depend on each brand, their connector, if the battery comes with a balance tap, etc. For RC, a Venom Pro Quad, iCharger 4010, Hitec RCD, EV-PEAK CQV, etc. So many and the China brands come & go so it's hard to keep track.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 05:12 PM | Reply

For a car, just pay attention. You will be, you have to plan around range. It spends most of its time not in use so have blown insulation added to your garage along with an ac/heater duct to keep it cool.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-26 05:14 PM | Reply

My battery powered mower is awesome. Will never buy a gas one again.

Check out this awesome hybrid.
shop.ford.com

#31 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-07-26 05:17 PM | Reply

If you buy a gas car right now, you'd better be planning to own it til it dies because no one will want to buy it used from you.

It's like buying a VCR in 2001.

Or a DVD player in 2018.

#32 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 05:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

...no one will want to buy it used from you.

Don't kid yourself. There are people out there with barns full of 100W incandescent light bulbs.

#33 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-07-26 05:29 PM | Reply

My wife and I are among those whose next auto will be electric.

#34 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-26 06:20 PM | Reply

My battery powered mower is awesome. Will never buy a gas one again.

I bought one a couple years ago myself (EGO self-propelled 22"). Love it! I can cut half an acre on one charge. Push a button and go. And quiet enough to carry on a conversation if the blades are engaged. All my other lawn tools are now electric too.

#35 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-26 06:23 PM | Reply

#29 Tx, so I can be lazy and just buy new batteries for tools as needed, rather than obsess on optimization. I like lazy.
#30 I am very happy with my Leaf, and I live in the PNW a block from the ocean. It gets above 30 about 5 days a year and below zero about 5 days a year, and my garage is insulated already. We use the Leaf everyday and let it oscillate around 80% most of the time, with occasional drains to 20%, like going to the lake or ski hill. I kinda want an EV truck for a reno, but I should probably just get stuff delivered. I like the Taycan, but my son will want to borrow it and then I will need to give the detailer a black light. He will be too tired to work.

#36 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 06:45 PM | Reply

I like the Taycan, but my son will want to borrow it and then I will need to give the detailer a black light. He will be too tired to work.

#36 | Posted by bored

Ever say no to your kids?

#37 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 07:15 PM | Reply

Whoosh.

#38 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-26 07:43 PM | Reply

It's like buying a VCR in 2001.

Or a DVD player in 2018.

#32 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-26 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag

I just sold a spare VCR for three times what I paid for it on LetGo.

#39 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-07-27 10:46 AM | Reply

If the F-150 Lightning was available now I'd strongly consider it. Instead I'm thinking about buying my last gas powered automobile. Probably a Subaru Outback or a Mazda CX-5.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-27 10:52 AM | Reply

#26 | Posted by GalaxiePete

I sold our first EGO with the quick charger and 5 amp hour battery and bought the X blade version with 7.5MAH battery. It cuts great. Another thing I like about the newer model is it has buttons for the self propulsion on both sides of the handle.

You won't have any problem selling yours for a good price if you want to get the newer model.

#41 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-27 12:18 PM | Reply

If I was in the market for a car, I would certainly look at the Tesla Model 3 or the new, lower-priced vehicle they'll be introducing next year.

#42 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2021-07-27 04:37 PM | Reply

If I was in the market for a car, I would certainly look at the Tesla Model 3 or the new, lower-priced vehicle they'll be introducing next year.

#42 | Posted by _Gunslinger_

That is NOT happening next year. I'd say probably 5 years. They still have to bring the cybertruck and semi and roadster to production. They're all already late.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-07-27 04:44 PM | Reply

Roadster with Cold Gas Thrusters so you can accelerate beyond a street legal tires grip limits, and it can briefly fly on those thrusters. Pushed back to at least 2023. I think we'll one day see it as a real 2 seconds to 60 hypercar, but not the silly promises. There's also the Semi, Battery Swap System, Solar Roof, Full Self Driving, Robotaxi Network, Alien Dreadnaught, The One Hour Bodyshop, 100% Solar Powered Factory, Boring Company Car Elevators and Underground Transportation Network, Electric Skate Pods to get to Dodgers games at 150mph for $1 rides, fixing Flint's Water Crisis, Squeak & Rattle detection via phone app, Low Cost Housing with Boring Company dirt bricks, Ventilators... somebody needs to take that guy's Twitter away.

#44 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-27 05:41 PM | Reply

I've been looking at EV Motorcycles, Scooters, and Bikes myself.
Will wait a few years for the pricing to settle, and the tech (batteries)
to improve a bit, before investing in an EV car or truck.

Besides, other than winter, the simple purchase of an EV Scooter or
Motorcycle (for trips to the store and for short trips around my region)
should reduce my usage of the truck and hence my carbon footprint from
vehicles by at least 60% I am figuring.

Just got to make sure my EV Scooter or Motorcycle has a luggage rack or
saddlebags for getting groceries or supplies from Point A to Point B,
and I think it will be a 'Go'.

#45 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-07-28 09:48 AM | Reply

A guy named Craig Vetter built a motorcycle 40 years ago that got 108mpg on 20hp 4 stroke. I wonder what he could do with a hybrid setup.

#46 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-07-28 11:08 AM | Reply

"If you buy a gas car right now, you'd better be planning to own it til it dies because no one will want to buy it used from you."

#32 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-07-26 05:23 PM | REPLY | FUNNY: 1: Not a problem for us as every car I ever bought I keep until no longer feasible to put money into it - usually 250-300k miles, so only worth 500 dollar trade-in. [i.e., I run my vehicles 'into the ground' and been doing so for decades. Also, pay cash for my vehicles as why pay interest on a car loan?

#47 | Posted by MSgt at 2021-07-28 01:12 PM | Reply

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