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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, July 31, 2021

President Donald J. Trump pressed top Justice Department officials late last year to declare that the election was corrupt even though they had found no instances of widespread fraud, so that he and his allies in Congress could use the assertion to try to overturn the results, according to new documents provided to lawmakers and obtained by The New York Times.

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According to the reporting, Trump spoke with the acting attorney general and his deputy, Richard Donoghue, on Dec. 27, pressing the officials on voter-fraud claims that the Justice Department already knew to be false. Donoghue reminded the then-president that the department could not help Trump change the election's outcome, but according to the lawyer's notes, the then-president said that wasn't what he was asking for.

"Just say that the election was corrupt [and] leave the rest to me" and to the White House's congressional allies, Donoghue wrote, summarizing Trump's response.

The then-president didn't specify which congressional allies he was referring to, but the Times' report added that during the same call, Trump referenced Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) -- who was recently rejected as a member of the House committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack -- as well as Rep. Scott Perry (R-Pa.) and Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.).

As the December discussion progressed, Trump's pitch to the Justice Department leaders grew more ridiculous. Told that federal law enforcement can only act in response to "actual evidence," Trump said "people" are blaming the Justice Department for failing to pursue far-right conspiracy theories.

This is nothing more than a continuation of Impeachment Part 1. All of this falls directly upon the entire Republican Party who abdicated their constitutional responsibilities to continue to enable the sociopathy of a narcissistic imbecile who places his own needs and desires above all else - laws and Constitution be damned.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-07-30 01:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 9

Trump was probably the most corrupt President in U.S. history. That will be his lasting legacy.

#2 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-07-30 01:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

#2 - Yep. I was going to say something similar, Sentinel. I still shake my head every time there's another revelation like this one. It just doesn't end!

#3 | Posted by YAV at 2021-07-30 01:56 PM | Reply

#1 | Posted by tonyroma

I'm sure you've read about Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Milley's deep concerns about Trump using the military to stage a coup after invoking the Insurrection Act ...

A man like Gen. Milley wouldn't have been worried unless he had good reasons to be concerned.

#4 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-07-30 02:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

"Falls directly on the entire Republican Party"

I don't know about that

You can't blame leadership for how their "moron" constituents react to the messages they tailor and feed them

- - eb "never critique the ideology" erley

#5 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-07-30 03:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

A traitor says what?

#6 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-30 06:47 PM | Reply

Good thing Trump is so incompetent.

#7 | Posted by bored at 2021-07-30 06:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Has trump ever made a phone call that wasn't obscene?

#8 | Posted by Tor at 2021-07-30 06:54 PM | Reply

Has trump ever made a phone call that wasn't obscene?

#8 | POSTED BY TOR

Has Trump ever done a non-hateful thing in his life?

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-31 10:42 AM | Reply

Uh ... he was talking about people whose last names begin with the letter "R", and not me ...
-GOP Congress traitors,planning on spending the month on some boat or private beach so as to avoid the national press

#10 | Posted by catdog at 2021-07-31 10:46 AM | Reply

disgrace... left office in disgrace...

#11 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2021-07-31 10:51 AM | Reply

Another hot, frothy lather being whipped up.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-07-31 10:55 AM | Reply

The sad part of this is that the Country has become so accustomed to the routine criminality of the Trump administration that this revelation will probably be little more than a passing headline among many similar headlines.

Supporters of fmr Pres Trump won't care because they seem to put Trump's anti-Democrat stance at a higher priority than the rule of the Constitution.


#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 10:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump was probably the most corrupt President in U.S. history. That will be his lasting legacy.

#2 | Posted by sentinel

What a crock.

#14 | Posted by Sniper at 2021-07-31 10:59 AM | Reply

@#14 ... What a crock. ...

Which part do you think is a crock?

1) Trump was probably the most corrupt President in U.S. history.

- or -

2) That will be his lasting legacy.

or both?

From what I've been seeing, both (1) and (2) may be correct.

The emerging evidence is providing substantial gravity to (1), giving credence to the forecast of (2).

In my view, we have only just started to see the body of evidence regarding the criminality and corruption of the Trump administration.

#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 11:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Sniper's back!

Sniper I thought the Rona had got you. But then I guess you'd have to leave the house to get it. Stay safe.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-31 11:12 AM | Reply

What a crock.

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Prove your point, trumpian loser. What other president was more corrupt, even by half?

None, that's who. Why don't you simply admit it and stop being such a loser?

#17 | Posted by kudzu at 2021-07-31 11:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Supporters of fmr Pres Trump won't care...
#13 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Already evident in this thread.

#18 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2021-07-31 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Another hot, frothy lather being whipped up.

Yeah, sedition and insurrection kinda does that to believers in US law and the Constitution.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-07-31 11:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"leave the rest to me and the R congressmen."

^
This was a coup attempt.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-31 11:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7



@#20 ... This was a coup attempt. ...

It certainly is looking that way.

And it starts to explain a lot more of why Leader McCarthy, Rep Jordan and others are so eager to attempt to derail the Jan 6 investigation. Rep Jordan reluctantly admitted on FoxNews that he had conversations with fmr Pres Trump on Jan 6.

Jordan acknowledges talking to Trump on Jan. 6
thehill.com

..."No. I mean on Jan. 6, congressman?" Baier asked again.

"Yes," Jordan responded....


Does fmr Pres Trump saying, "leave the rest to me and the R congressmen" indicate that he already has had conversations with some GOP Congressfolk about an insurrection attempt?

Why else would he make such a statement?

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Trump never went far enough for you, did he?

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2021-07-31 11:56 AM | Reply

Republicans and Conservatives: You had your choice of several rock solid conservative with proven track records. Instead, you chose a former Clinton supporting Democrat, Manhattan limousine liberal, tiny handed vulgarian, sexual predatory, corrupt con-man, multiple bankruptcy, phony, fake, game show host. Nobody made you do it. You did it freely. Now the country has to deal with the fallout of what you fell for. It was voting fraud. You voted for a fraud. I would hope you would've learned, but the hope is misguided because you never seem to learn anything that benefits the country.

#23 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2021-07-31 12:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Another hot, frothy lather being whipped up.

Leave Rick Santorum out of this.

#24 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2021-07-31 12:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Trump never went far enough for you, did he?

#22 | POSTED BY ZED

A moron leading the moronic. What did we expect?

Criminally negligent and incompetent to boot.

What a combo!!

Us survivors were lucky to survive it.

That's assuming we do.

Time to hold them accountable.

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-07-31 12:28 PM | Reply

Wonder how this will play out as a piece of 1/6...

#26 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-07-31 12:36 PM | Reply

Another hot, frothy lather being whipped up.

#12 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Another scandalous piece of information dug up that you sycophantic ------- will ignore. Because you're cultists, not political followers.

Idiot.

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-31 12:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a crock.

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

What other POTUS pressured his DoJ to assist in overturning an election?

#28 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-31 12:56 PM | Reply

What other president was more corrupt, even by half?

Obama.

Because he wore tan suits and ate spicy mustard.

You know who else loved tan suits and spicy mustard?

Goebbels. That's who.

There, proof Obama was a radical lefty nazi socialist fascist.

*smug smile and stares at you with lazy eye*

-sprayandpray

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2021-07-31 12:59 PM | Reply

Is anyone surprised? It's Donald Trump for Christ sake, the most despicable person to live.

Don't worry. The show hasn't ended. This stuff will keep being revealed until he is dead, and maybe not even then.

#30 | Posted by jakester at 2021-07-31 01:06 PM | Reply


Austin Lounge Lizards - Jesus Loves Me (But He Can't Stand You)
www.youtube.com

...I know you smoke, I know you drink that brew,
I just can't abide a sinner like you.
God can't either, that's why I know it's true,
That Jesus loves me but he can't stand you.

I'm going straight to heaven, boys, when I die,
'cause I've crossed every T and I've dotted every I
Why, my preacher tells me I'm god's kind of guy,
That's why Jesus loves me, but you're gonna fry.

God loves all his children, by gum,
That doesn't mean he won't incinerate some,
Can't you feel those hot flames licking you?...



#31 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 01:08 PM | Reply

Now I wonder about all the documents the Drumpf Regime reportedly destroyed before the inauguration, are there records of other phone calls, is there anything left in the top-secret safe? What other crimes have they buried? This country is so fortunate that Rosen and Milley and others responsible patriots did not bend to Dotard's criminal desires.

#32 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2021-07-31 01:22 PM | Reply

"Is anyone surprised?"

Is anyone surprised to see you normalizing Trump?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-07-31 01:26 PM | Reply

To argue with the Trump Cult members in this thread is just sort of unnecessary. They can't even convince themselves with such damning evidence revealed, they really just appear delusional today. I almost, but not quite, feel sorry for them. My advice Cultists, just make up a new sock puppet name and get on with your life because there is no recovery from this total embarrassment your poor things are enduring today.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2021-07-31 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Forget what the brainwashed cultists think. They're still staggering around in a daze.

A hand written note by DOJ attorney Donoghue in real time is pure evidentiary gold.

Of course, this puts Barr in a tricky position. Will he lie to the FBI about why he didn't come forth with this damning information immediately? Or will he do his usual fancy dance around the question to protect his own butt?

#35 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#35 ... A hand written note by DOJ attorney Donoghue in real time is pure evidentiary gold. ...

Couldn't have said it better myself.

thx.

#36 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 01:50 PM | Reply

Twin's question for Barr is a good one, he must be squirming a little today. He, along with all the top Republicans who were entirely complicit should go to prison along with Trump. I just can't see how our democracy can survive if they aren't severely punished. And after this if you are still voting for Republicans you have serious mental issues similar to those of battered women who keep coming back for more.

#37 | Posted by danni at 2021-07-31 02:03 PM | Reply

Welcome to Fantasy Island!

Keep dreaming that -------, barr or any of the minions will ever be held accountable.

#38 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 02:11 PM | Reply

DANNI

Barr was an officer of the court. Even though he declined to participate in Trump's scheme, he had an obligation to report the conversation to the FBI. Failing to report foreknowledge to the proper authorities made him complicit.

#39 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 02:28 PM | Reply

And, yes, TRUTHHURTS is probably right. Barr will not suffer the consequences of his inaction.

Let's don't get lost in the forest.

It's only the leverage of Barr's testimony we need. What we're really after is the head of the snake.

#40 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 02:40 PM | Reply

You ain't gonna get it.

#41 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 02:41 PM | Reply

You'll be lucky to not have him back as POTUS come 2025

#42 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 02:43 PM | Reply

TRUTHHURTS

That's the purpose of the investigation. It's not going to be just one infraction. It's going to 100's of them, both state and federal.

If the Manhattan D.A. finds what he's looking for, especially any federal bank fraud evidence which they'll turn over to the Federal Banking Commission, plus the dismantling of Trump Org. and all its tentacles, Trump's financial resources will be severely curtailed and probably rendered to State Receivership.

I believe that's the situation the DOJ is waiting for before they move in, without mercy, to cut off the head of the snake.

And then, there's Melania.

#43 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 03:23 PM | Reply

TRUTHHURTS

I don't want to see Trump in jail. I want to see him dead broke, using a phone booth for an office and panhandling for cab fare.

#44 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 03:29 PM | Reply

TRUTHHURTS
I don't want to see Trump in jail. I want to see him dead broke, using a phone booth for an office and panhandling for cab fare.

#44 | POSTED BY TWINPAC

You will have to recalibrate your desires. ------- will never see such justice.

#45 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 03:36 PM | Reply

Again, the current trajectory has ------- as serious contender for the 2024 republican presidential nominee, thereby making him, ipso facto, viable, if not likely, the next president

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 03:40 PM | Reply

Which is why the dems number one priority coming out of 1/6 was to delegitimize the ------- movement, i.e. non stop congressional hearing on the lies behind 1/6, stealing the election, space lasers and the baby eating dem cabal.

Of course, they chose otherwise.

So, ------- remains a legitimate threat to become president again, cause, if you haven't notice, repubs are all-in on him.

#47 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-07-31 03:44 PM | Reply

I uploaded this yesterday.

You're welcome Tony.

#48 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 04:19 PM | Reply

I uploaded this yesterday.

You're welcome Tony.

I uploaded my thread yesterday around 1:30pm (check the time stamp on post #1), about 4 hours before you posted yours. When RCade moves a thread to the Front Page from the Back, THAT time starts the 48 hour Front Page clock - if a thread has enough traffic to keep from dropping off before then as newer stories are promoted to the Front Page.

My original thread was entitled "New Docs Show Trump Pushed DOJ to Say Election Corrupt" and today RCade joined yours and mine together under your title - which admittedly was better.

That's how it works around these parts. RCade always seeks to give credit to the first poster of any specific thread's information when he can, and sometimes you'll see multiple threads sharing the same base information but perhaps from different sources or with a later update.

Just an fyi, LA.

#49 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-07-31 04:59 PM | Reply

NYC local TV news is reporting that fmr Pres trump is blaming Democrats for portraying his Just Say the Election Was Corrupt + Leave the Rest to Me phone conversation in a bad light.

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 05:33 PM | Reply

Tony.

I was just joshin' ya.

You're always right on top of these things.

Upward Thumb.

#51 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 06:31 PM | Reply

fwiw... didn't fmr Pres Trump say a similar thing in a phone call with the Ukraine President?

Fmr Pres Trump asked the Ukraine President to announce an investigation into Hunter Biden, not actually do the investigation, just announce it.

Is a pattern emerging?


#52 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 06:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Usually by the time I force myself out of bed and look at the days top new on the sh*tt*er you've already handled everything Tony.

And most of these goofballs are already bickering over it.

Which can only mean one thing. Tony makes all the news happen.

#53 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 06:40 PM | Reply

Lamp.

That phone call was perfect. At least thats what he kept yelling.

Like how corona was gonna disappear the day after Biden got elected...

#54 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 06:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#54 ... That phone call was perfect....

Then there was the phone call to the Georgia Secretary of State asking him to find 10,000 more votes to put fmr Pres Trump into the "win" column for Georgia. (not to worry, the Georgia is fixing this problem)

Aside from the pattern of phone calls that has been developing (and I suspect may develop even more as time progresses), I do have the concern of what might have happened with these phone calls if fmr Pres Trump had what he wanted, i.e., "elected" officials that do his bidding instead of their oath to the Constitution.

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 06:57 PM | Reply

Trump and his supporters are beyond redemption. They are lost causes and should not be engaged in conversation.

#56 | Posted by cbob at 2021-07-31 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

LAMP

"Fmr Pres Trump asked the Ukraine President to announce an investigation into Hunter Biden, not actually do the investigation, just announce it.

Is a pattern emerging?"

You're absolutely right. I was remembering the same thing.

Trump has a nasty habit of mis-judging everybody else by using his own penchant for corruption as a standard.

#57 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 07:14 PM | Reply

@#57 ... Trump has a nasty habit of mis-judging everybody else by using his own penchant for corruption as a standard. ...

From the looks of things, he may not have misjudged many in the current Republican Party too incorrectly....

#58 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 07:27 PM | Reply

Fat Donnie needs a dirt nap.

#59 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-07-31 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#59

I disagree.

Fmr Pres Trump should be held accountable for any misdeeds (I'm being kind, imo) he might have done while occupying the esteemed Oval Office.

The fact that he is a fmr President should not shield him from being held accountable.

The fact that many of his supporters disagree via death threats should not shield him.


#60 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-07-31 08:08 PM | Reply

#35 | Posted by Twinpac
#37 | Posted by danni
#39 | Posted by Twinpac

Y'all are blinded by your obsession.

Try reading the first sentence of the first post. "... Trump spoke with the acting attorney general and his deputy, Richard Donoghue, on Dec. 27 ..." (emphasis added). Barr's last day in office was the 23rd. en.wikipedia.org

#61 | Posted by et_al at 2021-07-31 09:16 PM | Reply

So because his coup didn't succeed he's innocent?

#62 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 10:39 PM | Reply

"Attempted murder - what does that even mean anyway?"

-Sideshow Bob

#63 | Posted by LostAngeles at 2021-07-31 10:39 PM | Reply

"Y'all are blinded by your obsession."

It's a good bet that Trump put the same kind of pressure on Barr that he put on Donoghue. It could explain his resignation so close to the end of Trump's term:

Bill Barr Quit. What Finally Spooked Him?

The attorney general's sudden departure raises alarms about what Trump might do next.

What's the January surprise Barr wants no part of?

Another option is that Barr realizes that Trump plans to continue challenging the election outcome. Barr has been willing to tolerate Trump's arguments thus far, even if he himself has refused to say that Justice has evidence of meaningful fraud. Yet the prospect of increasingly wild claims of conspiracy and an inauguration without Trump in attendance might perhaps be enough for Barr to prefer to be out of town--and out of the administration--for the next few weeks.

What Trump does next, however, might give us a hint about what spooked the man who misled the public about Robert Mueller's investigation; appointed a special counsel to investigate the investigators of Trump-Russia collusion; and spread false claims about election fraud before the vote. It would have to be pretty bad.


www.bloomberg.com

#64 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-07-31 11:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"according to a study by the home improvement marketing firm CraftJack."

So Et Al is fine with an attempted coup, no surprise there. I have always considered him to be a wannabe Fascist, now he proves it.

#65 | Posted by danni at 2021-08-01 04:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Y'all are blinded by your obsession."

Yes we are obsessed with obeying the absolutely proven true will of the people not the wannabe dictator. Et Al has lost all credibility on this site in this one thread. Nothing he posts in the future will have any validity.

And thank you Et Al, putting me in that list with Twin Pac is a great honor but I do question why Gal Tuesday wasn't include too.
Et Al is a genius in his own mind but doesn't actually understand the legal system he pretends to know. I actually have never had much respect for him and now I know I was right all along.

I may not be a legal scholar but I do know right from wrong. Wannabe dictators fall into the wrong category though Et Al doesn't seem smart enough to understand that.

#66 | Posted by danni at 2021-08-01 04:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

DANNI

Et Al is right. The three way conversation on Dec. 27 was with Rosen and Donoghue who advised Trump that they could not just "snap their fingers" and change the outcome of the election.

I will take the blame. I am the one who was wrong. I should have said 'Trump pressured the DOJ' (not Barr)

In all other respects you, Gal and myself have been spot on about A.G. Barr. He was the corrupt face of the Department of Justice for his entire tenure, a reputation that will continue to extend long beyond his resignation.

Any criticism of Barr still remains valid.

#67 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 07:07 AM | Reply

BTW, DANNI

Since Et Al likes to throw the word "obsession" around, maybe he'd be well advised to take another look at Donald Trump's non-stop obsession to invalidate the election, long before, during and continue well after the events on January 6th.

That's the true meaning of the word. One could also be justified in calling it insanely obsessive because that's exactly what it was and continues to be to this date.

Et Al's criticism of you and I pale by a magnitude of millions.

#68 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 07:36 AM | Reply

If Barr was pressured by Trump the way Rosen and Donoghue were, what was his obligation? He resigned, but should he have told someone the reason why--the FBI, relevant Congressional committees, the Gang of Four?

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-08-01 08:05 AM | Reply

#68 - Exactly right, TwinPac.

#70 | Posted by YAV at 2021-08-01 08:21 AM | Reply

"I will take the blame. I am the one who was wrong. I should have said 'Trump pressured the DOJ' (not Barr)I will take the blame. I am the one who was wrong. I should have said 'Trump pressured the DOJ' (not Barr)"

Conveniently timed resignations like Barr's do not lessen his duty to do his job especially without any real comment about Trump obvious attempts to invalidate a free and fail election. It was obvious to anyone with a heart beat what Donald Trump was trying to do, we just can't, at this time, give him some sort of an excuse just because he resigned several days earlier. That should not enable him to have a stay out of jail card at all, it was and is obvious what he was trying to do and, so far, we don't even have knowledge of his conversations with Trump at that time. This administration is, as others here have said, the most corrupt administraion in our nation's history.

#71 | Posted by danni at 2021-08-01 08:39 AM | Reply

DANNI

Barr was still an officer of the court after he resigned. However, he had no client, not even the people of the United States. I'm not sure of the legalities in that case. Of course, if he had foreknowledge his moral obligation didn't go away. In fact, if anything he had even more freedom to sound the alarm. Instead he heaped praise on the most corrupt administration in history that HE supported and helped facilitate.

Someone with more expertise regarding complicity, both before and after his resignation, will have to chime in here.

#72 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 09:01 AM | Reply

Here's another, more important legal question IMO: I know "treason" has specific definition(s), but can you commit treason without aiding another independent country? Much like the pre-formation of the Confederacy, more specifically, is a coup attempt considered treason?

I couldn't imagine as a third party observer, who has no knowledge of the U.S. political history, look objectively at the facts and not believe that these people committed the highest possible crime against their nation.

#73 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-08-01 11:43 AM | Reply

Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason within the meaning of the Constitution. The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.
legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com
(emphasis added)

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-08-01 12:37 PM | Reply

#74

I see that as nebulous, down to the level of what "is" is. What is the "United States" in this manner? If it's the constitution or governmental institutions I would say it is treason. If it means "the people" or the landmass itself, it appears to get murky. You could argue going against the vote is going against the "people" if popular vote determined the presidency, but I don't know about when the electoral college is included.

Which is probably why no one has been charged with it, and likely nobody, no matter how high up will be. It's too hard to argue.

#75 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-08-01 01:27 PM | Reply

#75 They swore the Oath of Office to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. That's what they betrayed.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-08-01 01:48 PM | Reply

Also, as I understand it, what "is" is, is not some kind of existential appeal to the inherent uncertainties of life.

Clinton was asked: is there a sexual relationship between them. Well, by then, the relationship was over. So, "is" is the wrong verb tense, and that's what Slick Willie was angling at.

Maybe I'm wrong but I've always thought they made a mountain out of a molehill over that one.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-08-01 01:52 PM | Reply

Either way, it would be divine if some of these top level planners and inciters did real stints, and most importantly their cultists get the hint.

I still wish the officers would have sprayed the crowd like they were looting TVs in New Orleans during Katrina.

Give them a wake up call.

#78 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-08-01 02:18 PM | Reply

Good luck with all that.

Ain't gonna happen

#79 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 02:26 PM | Reply

Y'all are blinded by your obsession."

Sure. Someone is always "blinded" by something.

Trumpy is blinded by his obsession with power.

We are blinded by are obsession with holding him accountable for his crimes.

You seem to be obsessed with blinding yourself what has really happened

What is your excuse?

No man is above the law.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-08-01 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BOCAINK

"is a coup attempt considered treason?"

That may turn out to be the question of the ages. More specifically, can the President of the United States commit treason by levying a war or coup to subvert his own government? In my opinion, the answer should be yes. But technically, no, because there is no defined war or enemy to whom to give aid and comfort. In fact, Trump himself is the enemy.

Subversion is probably the best description for what Trump (and maybe Barr and Pence by extension) have been in the process of doing.

All willful acts that are intended to be detrimental to the best interests of the government and that do not fall into the categories of treason, sedition, sabotage, or espionage are placed in the category of subversive activity.

#81 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 02:59 PM | Reply

#81

"But technically, no, because there is no defined war or enemy to whom to give aid and comfort. In fact, Trump himself is the enemy."

I mostly agree which is why I posed the question if it had to be an established physical enemy. HOWEVER, if the U.S. Constitution is the definition of "The United States" in that section, I think it gets murky.

#82 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-08-01 03:29 PM | Reply

BOCAINK

Yes, I think it would have to be an "established physical enemy" to be considered treason. And war would have to be an established physical declaration by an act of Congress or the War Powers Act by the President.

Trump is guilty of subversion. The only aid and comfort he gave to the enemy was himself.

We all know that Trump was in way over his head when he took on the job. Maybe the part of his Oath of Office that says "to the best of my ability" is his Ace in the Hole.

#83 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 03:51 PM | Reply

Seeing as soldiers swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States too, I think it's clear the Constitution of the United States is, at the very least, a part of the United States.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-08-01 05:24 PM | Reply

#84

That's a very good argument, but the fact that it is an argument at all means the likelihood of consensus is probably low.

#85 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-08-01 05:35 PM | Reply

#74 seems pretty clear to me.

Where's Et_Al?

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-08-01 05:44 PM | Reply

BOCAINK

Before we go off half-cocked on the ultimate charge against Trump, let's see what the Manhattan D.A. and the DOJ turn up. The object is to cut off the head of the snake. What charges are used doesn't concern me as long as it's thorough and permanent.

There are other in the Republican queue, smarter and more focused, who are waiting to follow in Trump's footprints. Trump's punishment for his crimes must be severe enough to convince them that it's a really, really bad idea.

#87 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 05:57 PM | Reply

"Where's Et_Al?"

#86 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Who? ~~ LOL

#88 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-01 07:31 PM | Reply

Before we go off half-cocked on the ultimate charge against Trump, let's see what the Manhattan D.A. and the DOJ turn up. The object is to cut off the head of the snake. What charges are used doesn't concern me as long as it's thorough and permanent.
There are other in the Republican queue, smarter and more focused, who are waiting to follow in Trump's footprints. Trump's punishment for his crimes must be severe enough to convince them that it's a really, really bad idea.

#87 | POSTED BY TWINPAC AT

You will be waiting forever.

You think that the DoJ or the Manhattan DA is going to file charges against ------- for tax evasion or some insurance fraud?

Ain't gonna happen.

Americans don't do that to former presidents and certainly not one with his popular support.

You think ------- would ever see a day in court? Or EVER be found guilty?

Ain't gonna happen.

The only and best shot we had was to impeach him back in February, which, if successful, would have kept him from running in 2024.

But the dems chickened out.

You think if he decides to run he won't win the republican primary?

You think if he wins the primary, the republicans won't support him?

Keep wishing on the Manhattan DA to Al Capone him, but it ain't gonna happen.

#89 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 07:46 PM | Reply

You think that the DoJ or the Manhattan DA is going to file charges against ------- for tax evasion or some insurance fraud?

How about the NY AG, Letitia James? I won't be surprised if she goes after Trump.

#90 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-08-01 07:59 PM | Reply

"The only and best shot we had was to impeach him back in February, which, if successful, would have kept him from running in 2024."

You wanted Democrats to impeach him a third time, after he was out of office, and you believe that would have resulted in a different outcome than the first two impeachments?

#91 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-08-01 08:01 PM | Reply

You wanted Democrats to impeach him a third time, after he was out of office, and you believe that would have resulted in a different outcome than the first two impeachments?

#91 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Last February WAS the 2nd impeachment. Schumer chickened out on holding a trial. But, hey we got a whole news cycle over covid relief, so there is that

#92 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 08:04 PM | Reply

How about the NY AG, Letitia James? I won't be surprised if she goes after Trump.

#90 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Americans do not put their ex-president's on trial and ------- will not be put on trial for insurance fraud.

#93 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 08:06 PM | Reply

"Last February WAS the 2nd impeachment. Schumer chickened out on holding a trial."
I thought there was a trial?:

At the conclusion of the trial, the Senate voted 57"43 to convict Trump of inciting insurrection, falling 10 votes short of the two-thirds majority required by the Constitution, and Trump was therefore acquitted. Seven Republican senators joined all Democratic and independent senators in voting to convict Trump, the largest bipartisan vote for an impeachment conviction of a U.S. president.

en.wikipedia.org

#94 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-08-01 08:11 PM | Reply

I thought there was a trial?:

You call reading one thing into the record and then voting to acquit a trial?

#95 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 08:22 PM | Reply

I was thinking of the impeachment managers presenting their case and Trump's two lawyers saying a lot of stupid ------.

#96 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-08-01 08:31 PM | Reply

Most trials involve interviewing alot of witnesses and alot of testimony. Something that may have swayed a few senators and if not them made the republican brand slightly more toxic.

Dems chose another path

#97 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-08-01 09:40 PM | Reply

I don't necessarily agree with TRUTHHURTS outlook about Trump dodging the justice system. Under normal circumstances, as he says, we have a tendency to let past presidents slide, content with ushering them off to the dust bin in disgrace and political impotency. Nixon and George Bush would be prime examples.

But then, we've never had a president like Trump before who was so off his rocker that he thought he could singlehandedly turn democracy into autocracy and get away with it ~ just to name one of his many mental deviations. Impeachment is a constitutional prescription for bad actors but unfortunately, the Senate didn't agree much to the detriment of the country.

How this drama actually turns out will depend wholly upon the 2024 election. The onus is on the voters.

#98 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-02 01:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nixon and George Bush would be prime examples.

Who for the most part shut up and went away quietly.

#99 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-08-02 01:54 AM | Reply

Trump is the most corrupt politician in the history of the US.

#100 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-08-02 01:55 AM | Reply

REDIAL

"Who for the most part shut up and went away quietly."

We've got no such luck this time. Plus we're hamstrung with a Republican minority in the Senate who hasn't the intestinal fortitude to put the country over their fear of being primaried by a thrice impeached blowhard with an insatiable itch for revenge.

I hope President Biden has a plan for getting that Voting Rights Bill passed.

The weight is all on his shoulders now.

#101 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-08-02 03:33 AM | Reply

The weight is all on his shoulders now.

With luck, he's hired good people.

#102 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-08-02 03:39 AM | Reply

Idiot.

#27 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2021-07-31 12:54 PM | REPLY

Fake doctor shares his intelligence with the group again. At least he's quit throwing feces. There may be hope after all.

#103 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-08-02 07:38 AM | Reply

What a crock.

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Prove your point, trumpian loser.

#17 | Posted by kudzu at 2021-07-31 11:13 AM | Reply | Fla


That's his standard drive by M.O.

I am surprised he had the courage to show up even now.

#104 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-08-02 07:49 AM | Reply

Or will he do his usual fancy dance around the question to protect his own butt?

#35 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-07-31 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag

I can see it now.....

"Define handwritten...I am struggling with the word contemporaneously....Was I on the phone that day? It sure sounds like I was....my mind must have been elsewhere....."

Attorney General Coverup is slimy enough to weasel out of this. Barr resigned with a month left in Fat Hitler's term because he KNEW the --- was gonna go down. I wouldn't be surprised if it came out that Fat Hitler ran his idea past Barr to see if he could be held accountable for his actions. This whole plan was put into place MONTHS before the election when the Quid Pro Quo phone call blew up on him.

#105 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-08-02 08:02 AM | Reply

There may be hope after all.

#103 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

There will always be Hope.

Even for you.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-08-02 10:05 AM | Reply

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