Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, September 10, 2021

Steve Benen: [T]he fact remains that business leaders want to make money. They want to thrive in a growing economy. They want healthy employees and customers. This really isn't complicated: The pandemic is bad for business and Biden has a plan to make things better.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

It was against this backdrop that Joshua Bolten, the CEO of Business Roundtable - a powerhouse D.C. organization, which lobbies on behalf of corporate interests - issued a written statement in response to Biden's vaccination policy.

"Business Roundtable welcomes the Biden Administration's continued vigilance in the fight against COVID. America's business leaders know how critical vaccination and testing are in defeating the pandemic, which is why so many have invested resources in encouraging and incentivizing their customers and employees to get vaccinated, including providing paid time off. Over the past several weeks many companies have decided to implement a vaccine mandate for some or all of their employees, a decision we applaud."

The National Association of Manufacturers, another traditional private-sector ally of the GOP, also largely embraced Biden's new policy.

The National Federation of Independent Businesses also didn't issue any critical press statements or publish any critical tweets.

[T]he U.S. Chamber of Commerce's ... Twitter feed didn't say anything about Biden's initiative, either.

For all the hysterics among Republicans about the president's agenda, there's no great mystery as to why corporate interests haven't made much of a fuss over the last 24 hours: They apparently think Biden is right.

Biden understands that fighting the virus isn't personal or about infringing on anyone's personal freedom. It's about the economic well being and general health of the entire United States being tied to ending the spread of Covid. End of story.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Corporate America has learned, long before the pandemic, that virtue-signaling inoculates them from the LW mob.

I remember back 15 years ago when companies like WalMart that sold cheap crap manufactured from China were demonized by the left.

Yet woke companies like Apple, that exploit China slave labor get a complete pass.

#2 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 04:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

On a tangent is another stark reality of the Republican freakout over Biden trying to end the domestic scourge of Covid infections:

For far too many on the right, ending the pandemic isn't the principal goal.

Indeed, it's why of all the Republicans who condemned Biden's policy yesterday, none of them said it would be ineffective in combatting the public health crisis. They instead bypassed the efficacy question altogether, since it's simply not part of their political offensive.

The president and his detractors are having two very different kinds of conversations. Biden's focus is on ending the pandemic and saving lives. His Republican critics are focused on amorphous concepts of "freedom" - as defined by conservative ideologues - and exploiting political opportunities for partisan gain.

When it comes to Covid-19, public-health steps can be reduced to a simple question: Will the decision help end the pandemic or help extend it? The fact that so many Republicans find this binary dynamic irrelevant helps explain why the United States is still struggling so badly with the crisis.

www.msnbc.com

It's hard to believe that Republicans would rather stand up for the virus and its ability to sicken and kill more Americans than to realize the virus is the real enemy of America and Americans, not the President who ceaselessly tries to end its threat. But to today's GOP leaders, demagoguery and politics trumps even the stopping of a pandemic wreaking havoc and stressing our hospitals and their staffs to the point of implosion.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#3 We are supposed to be living in a free country. Even in a pandemic we have a separation of powers - we have checks and balances. We don't live in a dictatorship.

#4 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 04:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

You remind me of the RW idiots who applauded the Patriot Act. It was unconstitutional but we were dealing with an unprecedented threat that required new unconstitutional powers to be bequeathed to the benevolent and omniscient federal government.

It's amazing how often history repeats itself.

#5 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 04:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

It's amazing how often history repeats itself.

You have no idea how right you are ... for the wrong reasons as usual. Why don't you learn some factual history and stop spewing ignorance:

Vaccine Mandates Are an American Tradition. So Is Backlash.
Forced mandates have been deemed constitutional for over a century, and President Nixon himself articulated that when he signed OSHA into law, the federal government then had the authority to regulate every aspect of commerce and labor to protect both workers and the public.

It's breathtaking how much you pontificate from sheer ignorance. Why not actually look up subjects before you expose yourself as an imbecile pulling false idiocy out of your behind.

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#6 Your link doesn't nearly support the argument that you think it does.

Look, I'm vaccinated. It was the smart thing to do.

I also understand human nature and also understand the structure of our government.

A vax mandate will likely backfire. Because "free-dumb" or whatever. It will likely backfire.

People in this country value their liberties.

This is a bad approach that will not only see backlash but lawsuits and civil disobedience.

Imagine Trump doing this and the response it would have gotten....

#7 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 04:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Even in a pandemic we have a separation of powers - we have checks and balances. We don't live in a dictatorship.

Correct. And President Biden isn't acting out of his own ego, he's following the best advice of medical professionals on how to stop the spread of Covid - which is precisely the basis of the SCOTUS ruling upholding vaccine mandates from 1905:

We come, then, to inquire whether any right given or secured by the Constitution is invaded by the statute as interpreted by the state court. The defendant insists that his liberty is invaded when the state subjects him to fine or imprisonment for neglecting or refusing to submit to vaccination; that a compulsory vaccination law is unreasonable, arbitrary, and oppressive, and, therefore, hostile to the inherent right of every freeman to care for his own body and health in such way as to him seems best; and that the execution of such a law against one who objects to vaccination, no matter for what reason, is nothing short of an assault upon his person.

But the liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States to every person within its jurisdiction does not import an absolute right in each person to be, at all times and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy. Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others. This court has more than once recognized it as a fundamental principle that 'persons and property are subjected to all kinds of restraints and burdens in order to secure the general comfort, health, and prosperity of the state ...'

www.law.cornell.edu

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How exactly will this backfire? Be specific about what the repercussions will be from majority that's already been vaccinated?

#9 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-09-10 04:51 PM | Reply

Your link doesn't nearly support the argument that you think it does.

Please stop digging a deeper hole. THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND, it's not up for debate. It's been challenged numerous times since 1905, but it stands as precedence as it regards vaccine mandates issued by state governments through their constitutionally-derived powers.

Unless you can prove otherwise, which you can't, your argument is baseless and fraudulent. There is no individual right to liberty that supersedes the state's interest in stopping the spread of an infectious pathogen and protecting others through the advice and input of medical experts.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND

The link you provided didn't show that to be the case.

If it is - I will admit my ignorance and apologize.

#11 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 04:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

This is a bad approach that will not only see backlash but lawsuits and civil disobedience.

Ie. ignorance and politics is more important than protecting lives and livelihoods.

Thanks for self identifying as the virus' friend and America's foe. Mandates are about stopping the virus and they'll end when the virus does. They're temporary, not permanent.

As asked above, just how is civil disobedience going to stop the spread of Covid or stop infected patients from overwhelming our hospitals to the point that non-Covid patients needing hospital care may die themselves due to the inability to get it?

#12 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 04:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How exactly will this backfire?

That's a really good question. In this country people simply don't like mandates, in a general sense. Even if it's the right thing to do. So people will push back. It's human nature in a country that has the degree of freedom that we enjoy. I am not suggesting the pushback is necessarily rational - but it's there nevertheless.

#13 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 05:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#12 I am not an anti-vaxxer. I've been vaccinated and am very frustrated by the vax-resistance.

I am simply looking at this from a standpoint of what is the best path to take to get the maximum number of people vaccinated as we possibly can.

I think, at least at this point, this is a bad approach.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 05:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I am simply looking at this from a standpoint of what is the best path to take to get the maximum number of people vaccinated as we possibly can.
I think, at least at this point, this is a bad approach.

#14 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2021-09-10 05:04 PM | REPLY

What would you suggest?

#15 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2021-09-10 05:05 PM | Reply

I think, at least at this point, this is a bad approach.

"The OSHA Act gives employees a right to a safe and healthy workplace," said Robert I. Field, a law professor at Drexel University. "Having a vaccinated work force is an essential component of having a safe and healthy workplace. Being exposed to a potentially deadly virus is neither safe nor healthy. So OSHA would have that authority."

For months, the president tried gentle persuasion. Anything more, the White House worried, would backfire in a polarized country where tens of millions of people viewed the Covid-19 vaccine as a political Rorschach test.

But having declared himself out of patience with the unvaccinated, Mr. Biden is now testing the limits of government's authority to compel personal health care decisions in the interests of confronting a pandemic.

"This is not about freedom, or personal choice," he said Thursday. "It's about protecting yourself and those around you."

www.nytimes.com

The government has tried every single approach but for forced mandates and we're seeing the results: GOP governors and politicians wrongly making Covid mitigation efforts into a partisan game while millions more lives are impacted by Covid that wouldn't have been if more people were vaccinated. Those of us taking personal and social responsibility by getting vaccinated are still having our public lives negatively impacted by those who place themselves above everyone else.

If people want to stay on their own property unvaccinated, they have every right. But they do not have the right to traverse in public and threaten the health and welfare of others due to decisions they make for themselves alone. We do not live in vacuums, we live in a communal society where each of us has to follow rules and laws designed to allow us the liberties we enjoy. But with that liberty comes responsibility, and it's far past time that those shirking their own either take others into consideration or stay within their own non-public bubble.

#16 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 05:18 PM | Reply

What would you suggest?

#15 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Another great question. This is getting fun.

This is how I see it. This pandemic has been terribly politicized and all are guilty to varying degrees. The messaging has been atrocious, across the board. Masks work. Well, maybe they don't. If you are vaccinated you can go back to normal living. Well, no you really can't - mask up, bitch. Our experts, specifically Fauci, have been terrible. At times we have been lied to "for our own good". The media and Big Tech have acted as information overlords and it's been more narrative driven than fact driven. I could go on and on.

Bottom line - people have plenty of reasons to strongly distrust what they are being told from the so-called experts and government officials. A LOT of credibility has been squandered.

At this point, I believe the best way to convince people to get vaccinated is to become honest and transparent.

Biden needs to pick a credible spokesperson, maybe even a Republican or respected conservative - in the spirit of the fact that this shouldn't be a political issue and by picking a political opponent he shows that this is not only bipartisan but apolitical - and that spokesperson needs to be blunt. And the message to America needs to start with an apology and an acknowledgement of just how bad the communication process has been and how political this has been. Then, lay out ALL of what we know about these vaccines, both the good and the bad. Then, acknowledge that with blown credibility, if anyone distrusts what was just laid out regarding the positives/negatives of the vaccines that PLEASE consult your personal physician and weigh your options from there.

It's absolutely a doable approach. It really wouldn't be difficult. I can't speak to how effective this would be, but to me it seems like a logical starting point given where things are at.

Mistrust is driving at least some, if not most, of this vax hesitancy.

#17 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 05:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The government has tried every single approach but for forced mandates and we're seeing the results: GOP governors and politicians wrongly making Covid mitigation efforts into a partisan game while millions more lives are impacted by Covid that wouldn't have been if more people were vaccinated. Those of us taking personal and social responsibility by getting vaccinated are still having our public lives negatively impacted by those who place themselves above everyone else.

Do you remember when in California restaurants could serve patrons only if it was outdoors? Numerous restaurants spent thousands of dollars creating outdoor eating spaces only to be later told that ALL in person dining was being shut down while at the same time movie production was deemed an essential business. On one side of the street (there is a viral video of this) there is a picture of an outdoor seating area for a restaurant that had been shut down and across the street a nearly identical set-up was operational as an eating area for cast and crew for a movie set. That is one of but countless examples of lockdown inanity.

People notice this stuff. And it pisses them off.

#18 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 05:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Mistrust Misinformation is driving at least some, if not most, of this vax hesitancy.

First, let me give you credit for constructive comments. But second, let me disagree with many of your premises.

There has never been any doubt that N95 or high filtering masks would help stop the virus from being inhaled or exhaled. Never. At the beginning of the pandemic, there were not enough of these masks for first responders and healthcare providers so the message coming from the CDC was for citizens NOT to try and buy these masks because doing so would dry up the supply needed by professionals. And again at first, there was doubt about the efficacy of simple cloth masks because science knew that they did not stop the penetration of viral particles do to their small size.

But on the flipside, everyone should have understood that Covid-19 was a novelcoronavirus - something the world had never seen before - we brand new pathologies and mutative capabilities that were not predictable. IOW, Covid was and remains a moving target - where it is today is not where it's going to be tomorrow. The public should have been warned that as more information and data became available mitigation strategies were likely to change. Such is the nature of science, nothing is absolute.

As it regards Fauci and other spokespeople during Trump's administration, it was obvious that they could not be candid about negative information. Trump wanted nothing but rosy scenarios because he believed his reelection depended upon a strong economy and the pandemic stood in the way of his goals. He never prioritized mitigation, he prioritized his own goals with public health being far down on the list. You cannot blame those he muzzled both literally and figuratively for skepticism when Trump himself was the foremost skeptic even after his bout with the virus that almost killed him.

Accurate, up-to-date information on vaccine efficacy and known side effects are a simple internet search away for anyone with a cell phone or computer from universally-recognized authoritative sources. But I do appreciate everything positive you stated, but that doesn't change the reality that such things could have been done months ago since the main information about vaccine efficacy hasn't effectively changed.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 05:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

... - with brand new pathologies ...

#20 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 05:52 PM | Reply

#17 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So fire Fauci, a doctor with immense experience in combatting endemics, and replace him with a politician?

That's supposed to depoliticize the situation? Please, elaborate.

#21 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 05:55 PM | Reply

Ok. You said the already

Push back how?

Quit their jobs? Boycott? Be angry?

In other words, what's the downside? Less COVID and angrier nimrods?

Are they going to revolt? And if so in what way different from what they already have?

What you are suggesting is doing what we have been doing to convince these asshats to do what they so far refuse to do.

#22 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-09-10 05:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Accurate, up-to-date information on vaccine efficacy and known side effects are a simple internet search away for anyone with a cell phone or computer from universally-recognized authoritative sources. But I do appreciate everything positive you stated, but that doesn't change the reality that such things could have been done months ago since the main information about vaccine efficacy hasn't effectively changed.

#19 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

Yes and no. Look at how the lab-leak theory was treated. It was scoffed at by most news outlets and those who pushed it on tech platforms found themselves censored. Youtube has shut-down videos of credentialed virologists debating aspects of the pandemic because a couple of virologists were challenging conventional wisdom as it existed at the time.

Misinformation is driving at least some, if not most, of this vax hesitancy.

Plenty of misinformation out there. Also, some of what was dubbed misinformation 12 months ago is now dubbed to be information.

I do appreciate your thoughtful response. I hate that this has become a political issue.

#23 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 05:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

What you are suggesting is doing what we have been doing to convince these asshats to do what they so far refuse to do.

#22 | POSTED BY CHIEFTUTMOSES

What I suggested is quite contrary to what we have been doing.

People in a relatively free country react negatively to being hectored by self-proclaimed superiors and experts.

Amp that up to authoritarian measures like lockdowns, forced masking, etc and people will put up with it in the short-term. As it drags on people become more and more rebellious.

An authoritarian mandate before all persuasive options have been exhausted first...people are going to say, eff you! I ain't doing it out of principle!

Is it a cutting off the nose to spite the face issue? Yeah, to an extent. But it's human nature.

The end goal is to figure out the best way to get as many people to get vaccinated as possible, all the while recognizing that we have safeguards against authoritarianism for a reason.

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Also, some of what was dubbed misinformation 12 months ago is now dubbed to be information.

Can you provide some examples?

I hate that this has become a political issue.
#23 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

"I purposefully down played the virus." -- COVI-Donald

#25 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:04 PM | Reply

So fire Fauci, a doctor with immense experience in combatting endemics, and replace him with a politician?
That's supposed to depoliticize the situation? Please, elaborate.

#21 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

He's a terrible communicator and spokesperson.

He's also dishonest, a bit of an egomaniac and may well have played a roll in gain of function research in Wuhan in spite of his denials.

We have a communication and credibility problem. Fauci is part of that problem. He's lost a lot of credibility in the eyes of the public. So, quit trotting him out there and find someone else. Surely he's not the only doctor in this country with immense experience in combatting endemics.

#26 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Amp that up to authoritarian measures like lockdowns, forced masking, etc and people will put up with it in the short-term. As it drags on people become more and more rebellious.

Curious, is forcing people to wear pants authoritarian in your book?

An authoritarian mandate before all persuasive options have been exhausted first...people are going to say, eff you!

Which persuasive options have been ignored?

But it's human nature.

I'd say it's more of an 'American exceptionalism' biproduct.

all the while recognizing that we have safeguards against authoritarianism for a reason.
#24 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Like SCOTUS, right? The same SCOTUS that deemed such mandates as this one as being wholly constitutional in 1905?

#27 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:08 PM | Reply

Can you provide some examples?

I already provided one - the lab leak theory.

The effectiveness of cloth masks is another.

Having young kids mask in school is yet another situation where the mandate fails to follow the science.

How many examples do you need?

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I hate that this has become a political issue.

Sorry, but TRUMP'S FAULT! (to begin with) Remember Dr. Meissonier who in February 2020 correctly told Americans how to and what to prepare for because she understood that the virus' spread was unstoppable due to how the world travels and lives as a globally connected society? Trump made sure she never spoke publicly again. His Administration never prepared America for what was inevitable by simply looking back 100 years into history. America went through this in 1918 and it lasted a little over 2 years. We had a template, but Trump's government was too busy blaming China, or blaming scientists or blaming Democrats for wanting to mitigate solely to hurt Trump himself to ever even consider lessons learned from the 20th century.

And as it regards the virus' origin, that has never been connected to stopping its spread, so again, to me that whole topic is/was irrelevant in the present course of ending the virus' spread, but obviously germane in any after-action analysis. It has never made sense that China was trying to create or unleash a pathogen as a weapon for the very reason we've lived for almost 2 years: No virus can be controlled to the point it won't affect your own country and people as well.

It's another MAD scenario - if anyone pulls the trigger, they'll end up harming themselves just as badly.

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 06:09 PM | Reply

I hate that this has become a political issue.
#23 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER
"I purposefully down played the virus." -- COVI-Donald

#25 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2021-09-10 06:04 PM

Trump is among the guilty of politicising this.

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Biden needs to pick a credible spokesperson, maybe even a Republican or respected conservative"

Such a person would be instantly labeled a RINO. Even in the astronomically unlikely event that he picked Donald Trump and Trump agreed to do it. There's going to be backlash no matter what. Still, it's worth a try, even though he'll still be bashed for "just doing it for the optics" as much as he'd be bashed for "not caring enough about optics".

#31 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-10 06:14 PM | Reply

It has never made sense that China was trying to create or unleash a pathogen as a weapon for the very reason we've lived for almost 2 years: No virus can be controlled to the point it won't affect your own country and people as well.
It's another MAD scenario - if anyone pulls the trigger, they'll end up harming themselves just as badly.

#29 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

I don't think it was a bio-weapon. However, strong evidence suggests it was developed via gain of function research and that poor safeguards resulted in it escaping the lab. Whether that was the case or it was from a dead bat at a wet market China appears to have known what they were dealing with at the beginning and the actions they have taken since were an act of bio-terrorism IMO.

They are blocking attempts to study its origins for a reason and that reason is NOT altruistic.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#31 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

That's a fair point. I really think it would boil down to how it's messaged.

If a Republican spokesperson were to be picked by Biden and said spokesperson started by laying out all of the horrible messaging and politicking and then went on to apologize on behalf of all involved, with Biden nodding from behind (and hopefully not nodding off) I think it would go a long way toward restoring some credibility.

#33 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Curious, is forcing people to wear pants authoritarian in your book?

Are you really equating face masks with pants?

Which persuasive options have been ignored?

For the most part, persuasive options haven't been tried.

#34 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 06:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Trump is among the guilty of politicising this.

Yes. And he's also guilty of allowing our enemies to spread disinformation through social and professional media that drives much of the vaccine hesitancy and political polarization.

US officials: Russia behind spread of virus disinformation

China Spins Tale That the U.S. Army Started the Coronavirus Epidemic

Iran's COVID-19 Disinformation Campaign

Axis of Disinformation: Propaganda from Iran, Russia, and China on COVID-19

And perhaps the absolute worst about this topic is the fact that Trump himself and the right wing media not only don't pushback against our enemies disinformation, they rebroadcast and magnify the disinformation in service of their own political agendas.

This does not happen from Fauci, government health experts, or most anyone from non-right media sources.

#35 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 06:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

For the most part, persuasive options haven't been tried.

#34 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2021-09-10 06:20 PM | FLAG:

I find "not dying" and "not killing other people" to be incredibly persuasive.

#36 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2021-09-10 06:23 PM | Reply

So, quit trotting him out there and find someone else.
Surely he's not the only doctor in this country with immense experience in combatting endemics.
#26 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

That has nothing to do with the politicization that you were focusing on. Furthermore, my uncle is a doctor at the National Institute of Health and worked alongside Fauci in Africa fighting the AIDS endemic. He fully supports Fauci and recognizes the nuance that Fauci has had to traverse, including the restraints imposed by the Trump administration, and then the difficulties with an administration transition. If my uncle still supports Fauci, there's no reason for me not to. If anything, Fauci's been improperly demonized and there's a distinct narrative that seems to only come from one side of the aisle regarding Fauci's performance. That narrative, which is immensely false, has been propagated on national television through Fox News, Newsmax, OANN and filtered through the right-leaning facebook pages. That hyperbole turns balanced folks like yourself against someone like Fauci who has done an admirable job getting pertinent information to the public. He still is. And that's why schools in California are remaining open, as of now. The states following Fauci's advice have kids in the classroom. Those who did not are closing schools down. Of course he's not batting a thousand, but why anyone would expect that from a scientist or science in general while riding through a pandemic caused by a novel virus is surely mystifying.

Lastly, removing him and replacing him with someone who is Republican or conservative won't change a thing. Trump getting vaccinated has not changed people's minds. Republicans who are pro-vaccine vocally encouraging people to get vaxxed have not changed anything. The FDA approving the vaccine hasn't changed anything. Those who are keeping us from moving beyond the pandemic by both refusing vaccines AND refusing to wear masks are dead set in their decision now. Changing their minds would require them to admit that they were wrong; that the left won. The notion that people are dying and spreading the virus to own the libs has legitimacy. At least the black community has a specific excuse to be warry of government-mandated medicine. Considering systemic racism is NOT holding back the white community, white anti-vaxxers don't have much to stand on in that regard, IMO.

#37 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:24 PM | Reply

Are you really equating face masks with pants?

Absolutely. The fact you're hesitant to answer the question is telling.

For the most part, persuasive options haven't been tried.
#34 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Such as?

#38 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:25 PM | Reply

And don't forget that Amy Coney Barrett just allowed Indiana University to mandate vaccines for its students just about a month ago, Bellringer.

So even this Court has already come down in favor of vaccine mandates, but funny, the right wing didn't lose its collective mind or claim that the school's administrators were authoritarian Nazis like they're claiming Biden is over the last 24 hours, obviously in contradiction to one of their own cherished jurist's rulings.

Go figure.

#39 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 06:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#28 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

What about the lab leak theory are you referring to that has been proven true?

The effectiveness of cloth masks is another.

This I can't agree with. It's been very well known and publicized the cloth masks are not nearly as effective as other materials, but if cloth mask is the only available mask, it should still be worn. 5-10% mitigation is better than none, that's the point.

Having young kids mask in school is yet another situation where the mandate fails to follow the science.

It's working for most California schools. Schools in states without mask mandates are shutting down and it's not even the fall yet. Not sure how this is a proper example.

How many examples do you need?
#28 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

For an environment enflamed by a novel virus? More than three, obviously. Why did you expect perfection? Are you still? Are you some sort of purist or something?

I'm thinking three examples is all you have. If true, that hardly justifies what you're advising, IMO.

#40 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:32 PM | Reply

I think it would go a long way toward restoring some credibility.
#33 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Credibility that was unjustifiably harmed in the first place. That would be an amazing show of weakness on the part of Biden. Especially when you consider the fact that the new spokesperson would be laying out the exact same information that Fauci would.

What a shame.

#41 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 06:35 PM | Reply

That's a really good question. In this country people simply don't like mandates, in a general sense. Even if it's the right thing to do. So people will push back. It's human nature in a country that has the degree of freedom that we enjoy. I am not suggesting the pushback is necessarily rational - but it's there nevertheless.

#13 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2021-09-10 05:01 PM | FLAG:
RECEIVED

As usual, you have the dumbest takes on the board. Poll after poll shows that the majority of Americans are totally in favor of mask and vaccine mandates. The 30% of morons who are not vaxxed are the ones who are opposed, shocker I know, and they are what is keeping us from returning to normal life. Those of us who are vaxxed understand that these idiots will ONLY get the jab once they are mandated to do so, whether it's through vaccine passports, or employment mandates. We need another 25% of the country to get vaxxed, and then we should be close to herd immunity and finally getting passed the Trump virus, sadly now we'll probably have to get yearly boosters like the flu shot.

#42 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2021-09-10 06:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Imagine Trump doing this and the response it would have gotten....

#7 | Posted by BellRinger

Irrespective of the response, it probably would have stopped the virus, kept the economy from being undermined and he would have easily won reelection. But no, he had to pretend that it wasn't a big deal because Trump didn't have the guts to do what was right. He was surrounded by sycophants who felt their job was to make Trump look good no matter what the cost, even if that cost was going to be measured in body bags because people ignored science and critical medical advice.

OCU

#43 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-09-10 06:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

...China appears to have known what they were dealing with at the beginning and the actions they have taken since were an act of bio-terrorism IMO.

They are blocking attempts to study its origins for a reason and that reason is NOT altruistic.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger

Tell me this, how is this any different than what the Republicans are now doing with respect to getting to the bottom of what led up the January 6th attack on the Capital? And if there are troubles on September 18th and people are injured or even killed, how will that be any different than if it had been an of terrorism?

OCU

#44 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-09-10 06:51 PM | Reply

Why wouldn't a corporation be supportive of everyone getting vaccinated?

The pandemic is costing them money.

#45 | Posted by Tor at 2021-09-10 07:01 PM | Reply

Imagine Trump doing this and the response it would have gotten....

My first thought would have been 'Who replaced Trump with a doppelganger(?)' because such a 180 turn would have gone against everything he's stated that he stands for: never admitting mistakes, and always doubling down on his decisions.

Personally, I would have been jubilant had Trump tried to issue vaccine mandates after 650,000+ Americans had died from a preventable disease.

This is why we refer to Earth 1 and Earth 2. I live on Earth 1 where viral pathogens should be countered with the most effective mitigation strategies regardless of which political entity implements them. The do not ascribe to politics, they're viruses and all they do is infect and mutate. They are the enemy, period, and our leaders job is to stop them from harming his nation's citizens to the best of his power and ability so that they can live as they did before the virus appeared.

Those who only see politics in public health decisions inhabit Earth 2, where any and everything is distilled down to zero-sum base politics with all other considerations either coming in second or not coming into play at all.

One cannot have liberty without life. Biden wants Americans to live without catching or spreading Covid-19. His opponents don't seem to care as Americans die and fill hospitals because they refuse to accept effective mitigation getting infected even though billions of people on Earth already have and all data points to the vaccines almost guaranteeing that one will not die if vaxxed.

This is where we are. I'd rather be anyplace else where sanity and logic were ascendant and ignorance and lack of societal responsibility were nonexistent.

#46 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 07:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tell me this, how is this any different than what the Republicans are now doing with respect to getting to the bottom of what led up the January 6th attack on the Capital?

OCU

#44 | POSTED BY OCUSER AT 2021-09-10 06:51 PM

Refusing to participate in Pelosi's kangaroo court is synonymous with what China is doing?

Please cite how the GOP is thwarting the FBI's efforts on this.

That is a really bad take.

#47 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Irrespective of the response, it probably would have stopped the virus

It's a global pandemic. Once infected people began traveling here there was no stopping it. Mitigating, maybe. But stopping? The science does not support that.

Further, the states with the most draconian shut-down measures are amongst the highest with per capita deaths.

#48 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

This does not happen from Fauci, government health experts, or most anyone from non-right media sources.

#35 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2021-09-10 06:22 PM

If you believe left wing sources have been honest and transparent about this I've got a bridge to sell you.

#49 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Lastly, removing him and replacing him with someone who is Republican or conservative won't change a thing. Trump getting vaccinated has not changed people's minds. Republicans who are pro-vaccine vocally encouraging people to get vaxxed have not changed anything. The FDA approving the vaccine hasn't changed anything. Those who are keeping us from moving beyond the pandemic by both refusing vaccines AND refusing to wear masks are dead set in their decision now. Changing their minds would require them to admit that they were wrong; that the left won. The notion that people are dying and spreading the virus to own the libs has legitimacy. At least the black community has a specific excuse to be warry of government-mandated medicine. Considering systemic racism is NOT holding back the white community, white anti-vaxxers don't have much to stand on in that regard, IMO.

#37 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Please remove the tinfoil hat. You are part of the problem and don't even realize it.

#50 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

If congress passes a bill and Biden signs into law a COVID vax mandate it would have legitimacy. Doing it through OSHA pisses people off and is an abuse of power.

#51 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

If you believe left wing sources have been honest and transparent about this I've got a bridge to sell you.

Do you always misstate the point? I made no mention of transparency, I was talking about knowingly spreading and amplifying foreign disinformation. The left does not do that unilaterally as does the right. This very topic is but another example. Settled law is clear, and even one of the most conservative Supreme Court members picked by Trump himself has already ruled in favor of a vaccine mandate, but yet, here we are debating the subject as though a century's worth of precedence doesn't exist.

I don't buy bridges, especially when there's nothing to traverse across but for the delusions and falsehoods masquerading as facts in the minds of the manipulated. Reality is solid ground, not a ravine.

#52 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 07:32 PM | Reply

Settled law is clear, and even one of the most conservative Supreme Court members picked by Trump himself has already ruled in favor of a vaccine mandate,

As it pertains to a bill passed by congress and signed into law by POTUS or by Executive decree?

#53 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Doing it through OSHA pisses people off and is an abuse of power.

You've learned nothing. Biden's only ability to partially nationalize a mandate is the federal power derived from the OSHA law to regulate workplaces for the health and safety of all workers. That is the law. None need be passed by Congress... so far, unless and until the Courts say otherwise.

#54 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 07:36 PM | Reply

#54 Here is but one of many problems with that - does it take into account those who have already caught COVID but aren't vaccinated? from what I've been reading people who have developed natural antibodies but haven't taken the shots are more resistant than those who never had COVID but are vaccinated.

#55 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-10 07:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

As it pertains to a bill passed by congress and signed into law by POTUS or by Executive decree?

Again, OSHA is passed law and the Jacobson decision and others following it clearly gives government the power to mandate vaccines when the public's health can be affected by individuals spreading communicable disease which can be stopped by vaccination.

#56 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 07:39 PM | Reply

Speaking of "if you believe"

Just sixteen months ago, public schools went from indoctrinating our children to hate America" to today where "irreparable damage done to the children" by NOT attending the aforementioned "indoctrination to hate America"

-- belldingdong.

#57 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-09-10 07:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I've been reading people who have developed natural antibodies but haven't taken the shots are more resistant than those who never had COVID but are vaccinated.

Wrong again. I just read where the latest studies confirm that the protection of antibodies present after infection wane with time, and that those who were infected gain more protection after being vaccinated.

Others have already had Covid and believe that they have immunity that makes a vaccine unnecessary, although the C.D.C. urges previously infected people to get vaccinated because natural immunity may not be enough to prevent reinfection. And millions of unvaccinated Americans have no choice in the matter: They are under 12 years old and are still waiting for a vaccine to be cleared for their use.

www.nytimes.com

And perhaps the strongest reason for adult vaccination is the fact that kids under 12 can't be vaxxed yet and are increasingly subject to more severe Covid infections with delta than with alpha.

#58 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 07:43 PM | Reply

You are part of the problem and don't even realize it.
#50 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You're flat out wrong. Funny thing is, I'm guessing you know it.

#59 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-10 08:06 PM | Reply

This is exactly how California went about stopping people from smoking in bars and restaurants. If they had tried to pass a law that was worded so as to protect customers, the courts would have thrown it out since the customer was there on his own volition and therefore it was not the state's responsibility to protect them. However, when it came to the employees, the people actually working in the bars and restaurants, that was a different story altogether. With respect to the workplace, the state is obligated to assure that employers are providing their employees with a safe work environment. And since the Surgeon General had ruled that smoking was a hazard to people's health including the effects of 'second-hand smoke', there was only one action that could be taken, disallowing ANYONE from smoking while inside a bar or restaurant, whether that person was an employee or a customer, since smoke coming from either group, it would have had the same impact on any individual in the room, including the employees, who can't just up and leave if it got to be too much for them.

OCU

#60 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-09-10 08:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#60

Great point OCU. I live in deep red Indiana, yet through time, indoor public smoking has been banned almost everywhere, including bars - outside of actual cigar bars. Smokers have to go outside and most places created smoking areas, even heating them in the winter.

The GOP lawsuits are going to meet a rude awakening in front of honest judges ruling from precedence. If not, it will prove our courts are indeed corrupted in the service of Republican politics and authoritarianism overruling government's obligation and power to protect the general public from disease. In that case, America is screwed.

#61 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-10 08:26 PM | Reply

As in jiu-jitsu, dems need to use Republicans' strength against them. For example, run an ad talking the benefits of Americans exercising their freedom to safely travel, attend restaurants, concerts, schools, etc. and end it by saying "that's why I'm getting vaccinated".

#62 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2021-09-11 10:57 AM | Reply

Is this the same GOP that
a few months ago was clammoring
that it was every American's duty to
help business out and go back to work?

#63 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-09-11 06:02 PM | Reply

Biden really hasn't issued a vaccine "mandate" by using the OSHA law. He's issued a Covid testing mandate with a vaccination opt-out.

"People who don't want the vaccine needn't get injected with anything or forfeit their job. To the extent this is "authoritarianism," it's the tyranny of a brief-if-relatively-frequent nasal swab."

#64 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-12 09:30 AM | Reply

"For the most part, persuasive options haven't been tried."
What a crock! Those refusing to be vaccinated now are doing it out of ideological identity even though most of their leaders have been vaccinated. "The leaders of the rights say do as I say not as I do." But the cult members are so determined to maintain their brainwashed condition that all facts are rejected as left wing propaganda because right wing cult members are mentally ill.

#65 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-12 11:36 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2021 World Readable

Drudge Retort