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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 14, 2021

A majority of Americans -- including suburban voters -- support vaccine mandates for federal workers as well as private companies, according to the latest installment of the Axios/Ipsos Coronavirus Index.

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So run with it, Joe. You've got the legal backing and the backing of the voters.

Enjoy.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-14 06:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In the world of polls and elections, this represents a landslide of public opinion supporting President Biden's policy.

For Democrats, it means the Nation agrees with Democratic leadership.

For Republicans, it means time to buy more Gunz-n-Ammo.

#2 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-09-14 06:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I've seen it higher in other polls, as high as 66 or 68%. As vaccination rates increase due to the President's non-mandate and infection rates drop, that number will climb because most vaxxed people are quickly losing patience with the traitors who refuse to do the patriotic thing, put the country first, and take the damned jab so that we can get back to some semblance of normal life. Also, it's NOT a vaccination mandate, it requires vaccination OR weekly testing. So you don't have to get vaccinated, you can just agree to weekly testing so really, NO MANDATE!

#3 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2021-09-14 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

ANY POTUS (Trump, Reagan, Obama, Biden etc) has the authority to require those in their employment get the vaccine.

I'm generally in favor of the vaccine mandates but someone please explain to me why any POTUS can tell businesses with 100 employees...if they have more than 100 employees, that the federal government can demand THOSE people get vaccinated??

There seems to be a magic number of "100" employees. Is there some federal law that gives the POTUS the authority to dictate company policy.

#4 | Posted by jamesgelliott at 2021-09-14 07:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#4 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOTT

There is no demand. There's a very clear alternative in weekly testing.

#5 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-14 07:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

but someone please explain to me why any POTUS can tell businesses with 100 employees...if they have more than 100 employees, that the federal government can demand THOSE people get vaccinated??

First, Section 361 of the Public Health Service Act allows the Health and Human Services Department or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to make necessary measures "to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or possession." This might certainly entail vaccination requirements for anyone but Biden is merely requiring large employers present the alternative of testing or vaccinations.

Second, the Occupational Safety and Health Act has been in effect since 1970. It mandates all sorts of things in workplaces - hard hats, personal protective equipment, steel-toed shoes, ear plugs and goggles, to name a few. In June OSHA issued an Emergency Temporary Standard for health-care workers that required measures to suppress transmission including "patient screening and management; Standard and Transmission-Based Precautions; personal protective equipment (PPE), including facemasks or respirators; controls for aerosol-generating procedures; physical distancing of at least six feet, when feasible; physical barriers; cleaning and disinfection; ventilation; health screening and medical management; training; anti-retaliation; recordkeeping; and reporting."

Roderick Hills, a New York University Law professor, told the legal website Law & Crime: "The federal government has regulated workplace safety since 1970, when [President Richard M.] Nixon signed the Occupational Safety and Health Act into law. The businesses covered by the Act are all regarded as either in' or affecting' interstate commerce and therefore within Congress' power to regulate under Article I, section 8, clause 3 of the Constitution (the so-called commerce clause')."

#6 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-14 07:30 PM | Reply

"Also, it's NOT a vaccination mandate, it requires vaccination OR weekly testing. So you don't have to get vaccinated, you can just agree to weekly testing so really, NO MANDATE!"

That.

The only question I would have is regarding the funding of the testing. I'm not sure how it works in the US, but in Germany pretty much every other street corner has a free rapid COVID testing center. Would it be the same in the US, or would the employer or employee be forced to cover the cost? And could they use home test kits?

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 06:31 AM | Reply

"I'm generally in favor of the vaccine mandates but someone please explain to me why any POTUS can tell businesses with 100 employees...if they have more than 100 employees, that the federal government can demand THOSE people get vaccinated??"

It's his job dumb ass. We are in a state of emergency. We have had well over 600,000 deaths already and it's still rising. How many deaths before the President needs to act? Businesses witho over 100 employees that don't enorce any vaccination requirements are actually COVID epidemics waithing to happen. Probably, it should be 50 employees instead of 100.
Would it actually be possible for the President to take this pandemic too seriously?
I just went through a little war within my family. I demanded that my grandchildren get vaccinated or I was going to be a royal bitch going forward. I was criticized by some members of my family, a large one. But, happily, I won and I don't have go be a bitch any more. I hated it but I felt that the lives of my grandchildren were too precious to not give it my all. I did understand that I might alienate them but I felt the risk to their lives was worth the sacrifice.

I am probably now going to plan a party for all of them to celebrate their vaccinations and good sense. I will probably do it up quite fancy, with gifts, food, drinks, music, etc.

I am so thankful that I actually do have a family that can listen and even change their views at important moments and not just be stubborn fools. I am sorry for those of you who have families who won't listen, it must be awful. I only think mine are the way they are because I never put pressure like that on the about anyting that isn't actually life threatening, but when it is you get the full court press.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-15 07:04 AM | Reply

You once again don't know what you're talking about Danni.

There is no vaccine mandate. And Biden is not proposing one. What he is proposing is that those who don't get a vaccine undergo weekly testing if they work for a firm employing more than 100 people.

I do get what JGE is saying...why 100? What is significant about that number? And picking random numbers just suggests even more that this administration is in the weeds.

#9 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 07:17 AM | Reply

"I just went through a little war within my family. I demanded that my grandchildren get vaccinated or I was going to be a royal bitch going forward."

What was their rationale for not getting vaccinated? I'm curious.

I think you're an idiot not to get vaccinated. But lacking that authoritarian streak, I feel that you should be allowed to be an idiot...even if it kills you.

#10 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 07:19 AM | Reply

I know Liberals are concerned more about popularity and looks than actually governing fairly,

"We are in a state of emergency."

Then you go on to say how you are happy you have a family that can listen and change their views at important moments, yet you won't accept that "state of emergency" is an opinion that a large amount of people don't agree with. In other words, all you really care about, like most extreme Liberals today, is when people believe your opinion. Anyone else is a stubborn fool. The fact you can't see how egotistical and self-absorbed that is is the problem. And I'm not picking on you, I'm just describing the current state of the Democrat party. Too many extremists like you have taken over and made the party into one that allows rich, powerful people to wear dresses with their opinion on them to a function all about me me me and think it actually helps when in reality it only proves the other side right that the very people doing that aren't spending their time on an ACTUAL emergency like disastrous storms that hit their area and lots of their people are suffering. Once these extremist Liberals go away, the Dem party can actually start caring about the people instead of themselves.

#11 | Posted by humtake at 2021-09-15 07:57 AM | Reply

"There is no vaccine mandate. And Biden is not proposing one. What he is proposing is that those who don't get a vaccine undergo weekly testing if they work for a firm employing more than 100 people."

It must be a pain in the ass to be the only person who can read Madbomber. Or even worse to just think you are the only one who can. I could describe you in other terms but I think I'll just leave it here.

#12 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-15 08:13 AM | Reply

"Then you go on to say how you are happy you have a family that can listen and change their views at important moments, yet you won't accept that "state of emergency" is an opinion that a large amount of people don't agree with.

600,000 people dead and they don't agree with it as a "state of emergency?" More accurately there are millions who listen to right wing liars and pretend it isn't a state of emergencyy. It's call stupidity.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-15 08:17 AM | Reply

Can anyone argue with this premise? If Humtake posts he generally always posts idiotic nonsense? Has he ever made a valid point? I can't remember one.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-15 08:21 AM | Reply

With a few exceptions, COVID kills the sick and the old. Those that are already dying of something else. The security of the nation is not compromised.

The biggest thing we have to fear, no ----, is fear itself.

Because for the vast majority of the population, fear of the virus is more dangerous than the virus itself.

#15 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 08:32 AM | Reply

If Humtake posts he generally always posts idiotic nonsense? Has he ever made a valid point?

I'm wondering what he's doing up so early.

#16 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-15 08:34 AM | Reply

"More accurately there are millions who listen to right wing liars and pretend it isn't a state of emergencyy. It's call stupidity."

In 2019, 600k people in the US died of caner.

Was that a state of emergency too?

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 08:39 AM | Reply

"For Most People, Coronavirus Presents Similar Risks as Car Accidents"

The chance of dying in a traffic accident in a given year, for example, is extremely low. State data shows that there is one fatality per 100 million miles traveled. Given the unprecedented and draconian policy response to this coronavirus outbreak, this next fact may come as a surprise: Most people in Michigan faced a similar or smaller risk of dying from COVID-19 in 2020 as they did from dying in a car accident.

The 6.9 million people in Michigan who are under 55, about 69% of the state's population, had a 0.009% chance of dying in a motor vehicle crash in 2019. Their chance of dying from COVID-19 in 2020 was 0.012%, a difference of just 0.003 percentage points. Another way of saying this is that 99.99% of people under 55 in Michigan, no matter their health condition, lived through the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020 " nearly the same percentage that lived through all the traffic accidents in 2019.

www.mackinac.org

Do the risk of car accidents represent another "state of emergency?"

#18 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-09-15 08:41 AM | Reply

666,000 people died in car accidents in the last year (I don't think so)? And I suppose that car accidents, heart disease, and cancer can all be prevented by vaccination? Do tell. BTW, if there were, do you think right-wingers would take it if the CDC told them it would save their lives (like this one)?

#19 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2021-09-15 09:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

38,680 died from car accidents in all of the US in 2020.
600,000 cancer deaths.

And MadBomber is proposing that since there were that many cancer deaths, then COVID's not a big deal. We shoud has the same kind of approach to cancer (which we've been trying to find solutions for for decades) rather than the incredibly easy, proven, known solution we have in hand today to deal with COVID.

That makes absolutely no sense. None.

#20 | Posted by YAV at 2021-09-15 09:29 AM | Reply

I'm generally in favor of the vaccine mandates but someone please explain to me why any POTUS can tell businesses with 100 employees...if they have more than 100 employees, that the federal government can demand THOSE people get vaccinated??
There seems to be a magic number of "100" employees. Is there some federal law that gives the POTUS the authority to dictate company policy.
#4 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOTT AT 2021-09-14 07:23 PM | FLAG:

Bureaucracy. The POTUS can't. That is a misconception. Biden cannot as President order a company to do that.

What the POTUS has been given the authority by Congress to do is order OSHA to make a rule using their Emergency Temporary Standards power. This bypasses the standard procedure of OSHA comment periods on a rule in, well, emergencies. That's all legal for them to do. That's two parts of our three way balance of powers. What comes next are the legal challenges to this rule. It's going to come from Republicans, certain public worker unions (police), some private labor organizations, etc. Statistically the rule has a high probability of being overturned in court. >50% of total ETS have been challenged and 83% that went to court were defeated.

While improbable, if it does survive, Congress has to step back in and create legislation to fund OSHA and organize it to execute this rule since it's the greatest expansion in inspection demands in OSHA history.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-09-15 11:01 AM | Reply

Separately, completely within Biden's power, is to order vaccine mandates for Federal employees and Contractors.

Even if you work from home, have always worked from home, contract to companies with less than 100 employees, and don't legally know that you work for the Federal government as a contractor, nor could say so if you did. =P Glad I got vaxxed in April lol. Some people I know aren't taking that one so well.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-09-15 11:03 AM | Reply

COVID order, who it applies to, rational behind it, and authority to do it:
www.whitehouse.gov

#23 | Posted by YAV at 2021-09-15 11:10 AM | Reply

It's the order to make a rule, in relation to the 100 employee private company rule.

"The Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is developing a rule that will require all employers with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforce is fully vaccinated or require any workers who remain unvaccinated to produce a negative test result on at least a weekly basis before coming to work. OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement. This requirement will impact over 80 million workers in private sector businesses with 100+ employees."

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-09-15 11:32 AM | Reply

I'm generally in favor of the vaccine mandates but someone please explain to me why any POTUS can tell businesses with 100 employees...if they have more than 100 employees, that the federal government can demand THOSE people get vaccinated??
There seems to be a magic number of "100" employees. Is there some federal law that gives the POTUS the authority to dictate company policy.
#4 | POSTED BY JAMESGELLIOTT

Just a guess but I imagine that 100 is due to logistics and may be the starting point and the plan is to work down.

There are about 80M people in the US who work for companies with 100 employees or more. About 55% of Americans are fully vaccinated. Using that number, we can assume of the 80M employees that 36M are unvaccinated. If we assume those people need to receive 2 injections then we are looking at potentially needing to give 72M shots by the time the regulation goes into place. I've seen it reported that it is expected that companies will have to comply with the regulation within 2 to 3 months of it being announced. Let's assume 90 days. On average that means about 800K doses per day to meet this requirement. Of course there is probably some considerable overlap here but that number is on top of of the 20M healthcare workers and federal contractors who also have new requirements. So we could really be looking at another 100K shots per day to accommodate those people. That isn't even taking into consider employees at smaller businesses who are voluntarily enacting their own requirements. Surveys already showed that approximately 60% of US businesses of all sizes already plan to announce their own plans by the end of the year anyway.
That all has the potential to stress the vaccination/testing infrastructure in some areas. When you add in that a disproportionate number of the unvaccinated live in more conservative/more rural states where that vaccination infrastructure may not be as well developed it becomes easy to see why an incremental implementation would make sense. The administration would not want to create a situation where people who are likely already resistant to receiving the vaccine have to deal with the added frustration of having to wait in long longs or schedule their visits far in advance and then using that an excuse to continue to refuse to receive the shot.

#25 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-09-15 01:27 PM | Reply

38,680 died from car accidents in all of the US in 2020.
600,000 cancer deaths.

38,000 traffic fatalities is certainly a significant number. As are the additional 2.2 million injured in traffic crashes yearly. Most, if not all, crashes are avoidable. Communities, states, and the federal government have had a hard push on traffic safety for over 30 years. Deaths per million miles travelled are decreasing, indicating mitigation efforts are successful.

600,000 cancer deaths is an even bigger number. Decades of government funded and privately funded cancer research and we're still trying to figure that monster out. Through better prevention, treatment, and care, cancer mortality rate is decreasing, 31% since 1991.

COVID deaths as of today are at 665,000. Climbing at 2,600+ per day. Rapidly approaching last winter's peak of daily deaths. One little thing has been proven very effective at preventing its transmission and reducing its severity if transmitted. Actually 2 little things 30 days apart. Of these 3 forms of death, one could reasonably be drastically reduced by the end of the year. If folk would quit bitching about their rights and get the shots.

Those that are already dying of something else.

We're all dying of something. From the moment we take our first breath we're headed toward the grave. What's your point? ---- the elderly? Will you feel the same way in 20 years?

#26 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2021-09-15 05:23 PM | Reply

That brings up a question: ~51% of Americans have been vaccinated. Why do the 9% who haven't support a vaccination mandate?

#27 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-15 05:35 PM | Reply

Re: #27

Not surprising.

Likely just another example of "Do as I say, not as I do".

Nearly everyone (~99%) of adults in the US think smoking is dangerous, yet 14% of adults smoke.

#28 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2021-09-15 05:48 PM | Reply

If you can't see the difference between car accidents and cancer, versus a pandemic then there's no helping you.

That's a very simple minded approach to discussing the problem. Which, interestingly, is what the former president did.

#29 | Posted by brass30 at 2021-09-15 11:23 PM | Reply

And as the virus continues to have its way with the un-vaccinated, the number of vaccinated individuals, as a percentage of the population, will continue to grow until we reach 'herd immunity'.

It will also be interesting to see in nine years, when the next decennial census is taken, what the impact of the pandemic will have had on the regional population distribution. It's very possible that the trend will favor the so-called 'Blue' states versus the 'Red' states. That, along with the changing demographics, which is already underway, could result in a significant shift in power in this country. And if the Republican party continues to move toward being a more 'pure white' party, this will simply speed-up the process of them having a permanent minority status, and as the states become less 'white', it's going to become harder to maintain control, even with gerrymandering and voter suppression efforts.

OCU

#30 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-09-16 01:01 PM | Reply

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