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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 27, 2021

The James Webb Space Telescope will be 100 times as powerful as the Hubble. It will change how we see the universe.

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...Exploring strange new worlds. Understanding the origins of the universe. Searching for life in the galaxy. These are not the plot of a new science fiction movie, but the mission objectives of the James Webb Space Telescope, the long-awaited successor to the Hubble Space Telescope. NASA is building and launching the Webb in partnership with the European Space Agency and Canada.

The launch, which will propel the Webb to nearly a million miles away, is now scheduled for December 18, 2021. When it fully deploys in space, the Webb will usher in a new age of astronomy, scientists say, and show humanity things it has never seen before.

"The Webb represents the culmination of decades, if not centuries, of astronomy," says Sara Seager, a planetary scientist and astrophysicist at MIT. "We've been waiting for this a very long time."...


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-26 01:49 PM | Reply

Ohhhh maybe it will finally launch.

Love scrolling through Hubble pictures and am looking forward to this baby getting up and running.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2021-09-26 09:14 PM | Reply

Deployed a million miles away? Best work the first time.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-26 09:55 PM | Reply

And yet, no word on the smelloscope.

#4 | Posted by kudzu at 2021-09-27 09:26 AM | Reply

Basically, we will not only be able to determine whether other solar systems have planets, but also the nature and make-up of those planets. Mind blowing stuff. We will be able to determine whether distant solar systems are capable of supporting life from planet Earth.

#5 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-27 01:51 PM | Reply

Telescoping size queens?

#6 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2021-09-27 03:15 PM | Reply

It looks cool af

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 03:17 PM | Reply

We will be able to determine whether distant solar systems are capable of supporting life from planet Earth.
#5 | POSTED BY MODER8

Some of the signatures might indicate whether life is on said planet, yes?

#8 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-27 04:10 PM | Reply

I'm looking forward to this. I may have to go see it launch in December. I saw STS-31 which launched the Hubble.

A lot of people have the misconception that a larger primary will provide larger images of objects. Though this is technically possible to an extent not proportional to the primary's size, that is not the purpose of a larger primary. It is simply to gather more light. It's as if looking at a painting in a candlelit room, then turning on the lights and looking at the same painting from the same spot.

It is not always desirable to see an astronomical object under higher magnification. Using the painting on the wall analogy, it is better to see the painting from across the room than to see it two inches away.

But yeah, exciting stuff lies in store.

#9 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 04:17 PM | Reply

Maybe in another 10 years, kinda like the SLS rocket.

#10 | Posted by bat4255 at 2021-09-27 04:21 PM | Reply

#9 | POSTED BY JAKESTER --- I think you have definitely been found out. Nothing you have posted has been more Goatman-esque than this one... Glad you are doing well.

#11 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-09-27 04:21 PM | Reply

#11 -- whatever.

#12 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 04:23 PM | Reply

#11 - Just curious -- was Goatman goatman the only person to express a interest in the Webb or any other space exploration topic?

FTR, I don't confirm nor deny being goatman. If I said I was (and I have considered to it to end this very, very bizarre obsession with me) everyone would screech, "I told you so!". If I deny, then everyone keeps on with their obsessive behavior over me and Goatman.

So the truly obsessive ones who can't go a day without talking about me or him have been killfiled. That has helped a lot. But I'm surprised to see you make a connection between me and Goatman simply because I like space exploration. (I presume he did too, right? Or am I missing something in my last post that "connects" me to him?)

#13 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 04:28 PM | Reply

#13 | POSTED BY JAKESTER --- It is not so much what you said as it is how you said it, and I cant describe it any other way. I have ignored most of the "Jakester is Goatman" bleating as daily BS on this site, but with post 9 I am convinced they are right. Whether you truthfully are or not I suppose only you would know. Either way happy postings.......

#14 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-09-27 05:12 PM | Reply

#14 - at least you are stalking me, following from thread to thread as several others (most notably legallyyourdead) was, and maybe still is, I don't know. I killfiled him.

It's funny him making that claim when Eberly outed him as a sock puppet. LOL

But you can believe what you want to believe. As I said, I neither confirm nor deny it. I find the frenzy and attention (sometimes more attention to me than the topic on some threads!) very odd to say the least.

You know this group better than I. Do you think this obsession with me and Goatman will ever end? I don't know when he posted last since there is no user page for him, but he wasn't posting when I joined. That's a long time for him to live in so many heads. I don't know him, but I bet he would be amused if he knew.

#15 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 05:19 PM | Reply

^ ...aren't stalking..."

Sorry

#16 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 05:20 PM | Reply

#14 He's never denied it.

He must be running out of people to plonk if he hasn't plonked you just for asking.

Eleanor Roosevelt quote on the horizon...

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 05:20 PM | Reply

" It is not so much what you said as it is how you said it, and I cant describe it any other way. "

That's a pretty apt descrpition.
And then of course what little pieces of his personal life manage to slip out are always congruent with his former self:
Lives in Texas. Navy veteran. Right age. Same political leanings. Same obsession with himself.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 05:22 PM | Reply

#15 | POSTED BY JAKESTER -- he managed to turn every thread into a conversation about himself and was quite a troll. I will let this go now so this thread doesnt devolve into the same nonsense. You speak/type very much like him. Sock puppets are not unusual on the DR.

#19 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-09-27 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

*19 I, too, have become convinced the Jake is Goat, and for the very reasons you outline. My 2 cents. He can plonk me if he needs to. Whatever.

#20 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 05:37 PM | Reply

#15 | POSTED BY JAKESTER -- he managed to turn every thread into a conversation about himself and was quite a troll.

No, not the T Word...

Hate to say it, but someone's honkin' for a plonkin'!

(JG, I admire your patience and level headed outlook on life. And I have no doubt you can spot an obvious truth, despite the ham-fisted attempts to obfuscate it.)

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 05:40 PM | Reply

(You too GT)

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 05:41 PM | Reply

"I, too, have become convinced..."

"Jakester" is the rookie poker player with the mirrored glasses who's quite upset no one is falling for his bluffs.

#23 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 05:47 PM | Reply

PS I will say that contrary to popular opinion, I like this reincarnation, the Jakester version, better than I liked the original Goatman in the end. So there is that.

#24 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"he managed to turn every thread into a conversation about himself "

Well, that proves I'm not goatman. I have never self-referenced here, unless you count posts like this responding to someone. But to gratuitously bring me up as many do many times a day here? Never done it.

#25 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 05:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"He can plonk me if he needs to. Whatever."

The only ones I have killfiled are those who relentlessly stalk and troll me like snoofy and legallyyourdead, or respond with nothing but childish namecalling like speaksoftly and jpw.

You don't even come close to either of those two, Gal_Tuesday. You actually are quite reasonable.

I would never killfile anyone simply because I don't agree with them philosophically. E.G., even though I rarely agree with Danni, she doesn't stalk or troll me or constantly engage in ad hominem. So I see no reason to killfile her, either.

#26 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 05:59 PM | Reply

Something I've noted about this place and I find very odd: The rightwingers are the well behaved ones. Other blogs I frequent, the name callers, trolls, stalkers are all rightwingers. Here, they are all leftwingers. A lot of the rightwingers here have disagreed with me, but they have never engaged in non-stop name calling, trolling, or stalking. So I've had no reason to killfile any of them.

And actually I don't think I've killfiled any liberals. It seems all on my killfile list are rabid progressives.

Odd as it seems, I have to give the rightwingers here kudos for not acting like the out of control progressives here.

#27 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 06:07 PM | Reply

"Something I've noted about this place and I find very odd: The rightwingers are the well behaved ones."

You're not well-behaved at all. Your conduct is atrocious.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 06:57 PM | Reply

FTR, I don't confirm nor deny being goatman.
#13 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

What an insufferable ----- you grew up to be.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 07:00 PM | Reply

@#27 ... Something I've noted about this place and I find very odd: The rightwingers are the well behaved ones. ...

Perhaps because they have come back under a different alias after being kicked out for their prior bad behavior?

I noticed that type of behavior back when I ran a message board[1]. I'd kick someone off the board for bad behavior, and the person would return with a different alias and much better behavior. (the IP address and user-agent string hadn't changed....)


1 - and based upon what I had to deal with, I can only give major supreme kudos to RCade for this board....

#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 07:15 PM | Reply

That aside...

This is cool

Unwrapping Buzz Aldrin's Visor in Moon Photo Reveals What He Saw
petapixel.com

...Artist Michael Ranger recently had the idea of "unwrapping" the reflection seen in the visor of NASA astronaut Buzz Aldrin in an iconic photo captured by Neil Armstrong during the Apollo 11 mission. The result is an image that reveals what Aldrin saw the moment the photo was snapped.

Ranger, a visual effects artist based in Los Angeles, says he initially realized how his experience in visual effects could be applied to this kind of unwrapping experiment.

"The reason I had the idea to do this and knew how to easily do it was that in visual effects we use mirror balls to take 360 HDRIs of an environment and then use those images to apply photo-real lighting and reflections to CG content and place that content into real footage," Ranger tells PetaPixel. "I realized that the spacesuit visor is basically a mirror ball, minus a bit of information on the sides."...


#31 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 07:18 PM | Reply

#30 - so Goatman must've been a real jerk if he trolled more than snoofy and speaksoftly and engaged in the name calling more than JPW and speaksoftly and stalked more than legallyyourdead since they are still here.

No wonder he was sent packing.

#32 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:19 PM | Reply

"must've been a real jerk"

He still is, as you make clearer and clearer with nearly every post.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 07:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Perhaps because they have come back under a different alias after being kicked out for their prior bad behavior?"

Heh.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 07:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#31 - the 'mirrored ball' thing was a novelty used by artists in the 17th and 18th century. They would paint a scene that looked like 'gibberish' on a canvas, but when looked at in a mirrored ball or sometimes a mirrored cylinder place in the center of the canvas, there was an easily recognizable image.

#35 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:22 PM | Reply

lh3.googleusercontent.com

#36 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:24 PM | Reply

@#35 ... the 'mirrored ball' thing was a novelty used by artists in the 17th and 18th century. ...

M.C. Escher. "Hand with Reflecting Sphere," 1935. (Robin Lubbock/WBUR)
d279m997dpfwgl.cloudfront.net

(btw, fun article...
More Than Trippy Dorm Room Decor: The MFA Examines M.C. Escher's Skill And Enduring Allure
www.wbur.org


I've always enjoyed Mr Escher. Fortunately, there's a collector in the area who lends his collection out to an area art gallery...

Work of Dutch artist M.C. Escher is a Norwalk tradition
www.thehour.com

and here's the gallery (in which I've spent far too much time {and money :) } )...

Artists Market
artistsmarket.com


#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 07:33 PM | Reply

@#32

Nice try.

#38 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 07:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I, too, always enjoyed MC Escher and his impossible and surrealistic stairs and waterfalls.

His mirrored ball, however, was not a painting that could only be seen through a mirrored ball. It was a painting of a mirrored ball. I think the former would be very difficult to paint.

#39 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:37 PM | Reply

#38 - nice dodge.

So was Goatman worse than the trolls, stalkers, name callers whom I named?

#40 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Lamplighter, be objective. I know you can be. I'm not talking about if they did those things to you. They probably didn't. I'm talking about how the post on this blog in general. Was Goatman worse than them?

#41 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:42 PM | Reply

@#40, #41

Again, nice try. I do admire your persistence. Sort of.

:)


#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 07:56 PM | Reply

@#40 ... So was Goatman worse than the trolls, stalkers, name callers whom I named?...

@#41 ... Lamplighter, be objective. I know you can be. I'm not talking about if they did those things to you. They probably didn't. I'm talking about how the post on this blog in general. Was Goatman worse than them? ...

It is not up to me to opine who is better or worse on this board. That is an unfortunate aspect of RCade's duty here. It is his board, it is his decision.

But I will note that I think you are trying way too hard to develop your alias on this board as something it may or may not be.



#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 08:06 PM | Reply

#42 - Why can you not just honestly answer with a yes or no? Is it that big of a deal?

Don't worry. Snoofy and speaksoftly won't take away your birthday if you acknowledge what a major troll they are. Any objective person already knows that.

#44 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:07 PM | Reply

"It is not up to me to opine who is better or worse on this board. "

Yet you have no problem opining that I am undoubtedly a previous poster who got booted.

What a cop out.

And I thought you were one of the honest ones here.

#45 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:10 PM | Reply

"It is not up to me to opine who is better or worse on this board."

So you can't give your opinion on that, yet you can give your opinion that I am a retread?

SMH

#46 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:13 PM | Reply

@#42 ... Why can you not just honestly answer with a yes or no? Is it that big of a deal? ...

Simple answer: I do not remember enough of the Goatman alias to reply in a yes or no context.

@#45 ... you have no problem opining that I am undoubtedly a previous poster who got booted. ...

Please quote my comment when I said the Jakester alias is undoubtedly a previous poster.

thx.


#47 | Posted by lamplighter at 2021-09-27 08:16 PM | Reply

#47 - "Simple answer: I do not remember enough of the Goatman alias to reply in a yes or no context."

fair enough. Thanks.

"Please quote my comment when I said the Jakester alias is undoubtedly a previous poster."

"Update it to say what?

That's pretty ambiguous and could mean a lot of things, but considering the context, I presume you mean to update it to say you have no evidence one way or the other. I don't like to put words into people's mouths, so please correct me if I am wrong.

Sorry for holding your feet to the fire, but it really is getting tiresome not being able to post here without people turning the topic of the thread to Jakester and/or Goatman. Even though I have the worst offenders killfiled, I still see that ----. (and I'm sure this post will spark more. Mark my words)

#48 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:32 PM | Reply

If it can't detect planets around the nearest star or signs of alien life I'm not impressed.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2021-09-27 08:43 PM | Reply

@#48 ... Sorry for holding your feet to the fire ...

No problem, I always enjoy a good discussion.

... considering the context, I presume you mean to update it to say you have no evidence one way or the other ...

Evidence? Give me a break. This a message board with random aliases. Evidence? That is so funny.

That said, I do form opinions of aliases I correspond with on this board.

I do not post those opinions, as shown by your apparent lack of response to my request, "Please quote my comment when I said the Jakester alias is undoubtedly a previous poster."



#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 08:46 PM | Reply

#50 = I should not have made that assumption. I erroneously lumped you in with the many others who keep making that claim. Please accept my apologies.

#51 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:51 PM | Reply

@#51

Apology accepted.

I will continue to endeavor to respond to comments based upon the content of the comment not the alias that posted the comment.

(of course, if an alias happen to slip in that looks like a incandescent analpore, the above does not apply.)

Ween - Don't --- Where You Eat
www.youtube.com


#52 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 09:03 PM | Reply

Changing the thread to be about him = Goatman... Jakester has now checked that box as well. It is the inability to allow us to drop it and move on. So what if we think you are a rerun? If you blocked the worst offenders the rest of us will only mention it periodically. Let it go.

#53 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2021-09-28 09:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#53 - I have NEVER done that. Yes, I have replied to posters who have hijacked the thread to talk about me, but I have never done that myself.

Please be honest, JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO . Prove that you can be honest and chastise people whenever they gratuitously bring me up for no reason but to troll. Of course there is no problem bringing me up to talk about the topic, but there is a big problem with the dozen or so people who bring me up just to make silly Goatman references or call me childish names.

So talk to them about that problem -- not me.

Thanks.

#54 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-28 11:54 AM | Reply

I've been excited for the Webb since I first learned about its planned construction. I wish it a safe journey, as the team managing the flight the best of all available outcomes.

#55 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-09-28 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Apparently i live rent free in Goatster's head LOL

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2021-09-28 02:33 PM | Reply

For what it's worth, I don't believe Jakester is Goatman.

Goatman knew a lot about astronomy and photography and would not have been so conceptually wrong as Jakester is in his #9 post.

Jakester is conflating visual astronomy with photographic astronomy, which are completely different when it comes to the brightness of an object in the night sky.

#57 | Posted by Jay at 2021-09-28 07:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

All I can say is if it isn't Goatman, then for one week I'd like to see both these posters on the DR and see what happens. Will they male-bond, or kill each other with their oversized egos, competing to make each thread all about them? I hope it'd be funny as hell, or absolutely terrifying.

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2021-09-28 08:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

conceptually wrong as Jakester is in his #9 post.

I seen nothing technically wrong with that post.

#59 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-28 09:14 PM | Reply

YAV

One way to tell is if they are the only two posters who give each other newsworthy flags that they never get from anyone else.

#60 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-09-28 09:18 PM | Reply

I seen nothing technically wrong with that post.

Redial, the technically wrong part of that post:

It is simply to gather more light. It's as if looking at a painting in a candlelit room, then turning on the lights and looking at the same painting from the same spot.

In astrophotography increasing the diameter does not increase the brightness. To increase the brightness you need either a shorter focal ratio or longer exposure time, assuming the gain on the camera sensor is the same.

In visual astronomy increasing the aperture does result in a brighter image, sort of. Say you have a six inch diameter telescope and compare it to a twelve inch telescope. At the same magnification the twelve inch scope will have an exit pupil, from the eyepiece, that is twice the diameter of the smaller scope's exit pupil, therefore the image will be four times brighter visually.

However, the reason you would want a larger diameter telescope for astrophotography or visual astronomy also, is the resolution will increase linearly to the diameter. So if the James Webb telescope has twice the diameter of the Hubble it will have twice the resolution. But if the focal ratio is the same the two scope's will have the same brightness.

Hope that helps.

#61 | Posted by Jay at 2021-09-28 10:23 PM | Reply

In astrophotography increasing the diameter does not increase the brightness.

It increases the amount of light getting to the sensor. Same image with a shorter exposure time. If the sensor is your eye, it will appear brighter.

#62 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-28 10:29 PM | Reply

Redial, it is the focal ratio that determines the photographic brightness.

Any two telescopes, or camera lenses, with the same focal ratio, will have same exposure times. The difference being that the larger one will have higher resolution and larger image scale. For example if both the JWST and the HST are f/8, which they probably are, they will have the same brightness and exposure times but the JWST have a larger image scale (zoomed in) and greater resolution.

#63 | Posted by Jay at 2021-09-28 10:49 PM | Reply

if both the JWST and the HST are f/8, which they probably are

Are they? I am well aware of how a camera lens works.

#64 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-28 10:55 PM | Reply

I looked... the Webb is f/20 and the Hubble is f/24.

#65 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-28 11:00 PM | Reply

Thanks for looking that up. I guess I just assumed they were both Ritchey-Chretien type telescopes, which are usually around f/8.

#66 | Posted by Jay at 2021-09-28 11:13 PM | Reply

Neither of you two know squat about photographic lenses. Bigger is always better and that's all that matters.

#67 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 11:14 PM | Reply

Webb is a Korsch, Hubble is a Ritchey-Chretien.

#68 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-28 11:20 PM | Reply

Without looking up the technical details (WAGing), I'm excited for the sensor technology improvement behind the lens. I imagine that it is improved from the Hubble days (and the Hubble produced some awesome composite images!).

#69 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-09-28 11:29 PM | Reply

The images Hubble has taken are awe inspiring and Webb will be even more so.

Provided it unfolds a million miles from Earth and all goes as planned. If it ever needs physical hands-on, no doubt there are loads of aspiring astronauts who'd love to take that million mile journey.

Space is fascinating. I wish Bezos and Musk and others who want to colonize Mars would focus on saving the perfectly good planet we have in Earth for future generations.

#70 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-09-29 01:47 AM | Reply

Neither of you two know squat about photographic lenses. Bigger is always better and that's all that matters.

#67 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Depends on the job.

#71 | Posted by jpw at 2021-09-29 02:11 AM | Reply

Interesting discussion.

I follow a bunch of astrophotography accounts/groups on social media. Love those types of pictures and it's amazing to see what some folks can do.

Still trying to learn how to effectively navigate a sky, though, just to view with my telescope. Definitely not a hobby I'll be entering any time soon.

#72 | Posted by jpw at 2021-09-29 02:17 AM | Reply

" If it ever needs physical hands-on, no doubt there are loads of aspiring astronauts who'd love to take that million mile journey."

We don't have the technology to send a human that far and bring him back.

#73 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-29 06:50 AM | Reply

# 70 - " If it ever needs physical hands-on, no doubt there are loads of aspiring astronauts who'd love to take that million mile journey.

From the article:

Upping the stakes is the fact that while Hubble was launched to around 340 miles above the Earth, Webb will be almost a million miles away " four times the distance from the Earth to the moon.

That means once the Webb is launched, it will be unserviceable by human hands if it breaks."

#74 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-29 07:22 AM | Reply

Bigger is always better and that's all that matters.

#67 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It ain't the meat it's the motion.

#75 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-09-29 12:59 PM | Reply

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