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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, September 27, 2021

Robert Kagan: The United States is heading into its greatest political and constitutional crisis since the Civil War, with a reasonable chance over the next three to four years of incidents of mass violence, a breakdown of federal authority, and the division of the country into warring red and blue enclaves.

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The warning signs may be obscured by the distractions of politics, the pandemic, the economy and global crises, and by wishful thinking and denial. But about these things there should be no doubt:

First, Donald Trump will be the Republican candidate for president in 2024. The hope and expectation that he would fade in visibility and influence have been delusional. He enjoys mammoth leads in the polls; he is building a massive campaign war chest; and at this moment the Democratic ticket looks vulnerable. Barring health problems, he is running.

Second, Trump and his Republican allies are actively preparing to ensure his victory by whatever means necessary. Trump's charges of fraud in the 2020 election are now primarily aimed at establishing the predicate to challenge future election results that do not go his way. Some Republican candidates have already begun preparing to declare fraud in 2022, just as Larry Elder tried meekly to do in the California recall contest.

Meanwhile, the amateurish "stop the steal" efforts of 2020 have given way to an organized nationwide campaign to ensure that Trump and his supporters will have the control over state and local election officials that they lacked in 2020. Those recalcitrant Republican state officials who effectively saved the country from calamity by refusing to falsely declare fraud or to "find" more votes for Trump are being systematically removed or hounded from office. Republican legislatures are giving themselves greater control over the election certification process. As of this spring, Republicans have proposed or passed measures in at least 16 states that would shift certain election authorities from the purview of the governor, secretary of state or other executive-branch officers to the legislature. An Arizona bill flatly states that the legislature may "revoke the secretary of state's issuance or certification of a presidential elector's certificate of election" by a simple majority vote. Some state legislatures seek to impose criminal penalties on local election officials alleged to have committed "technical infractions," including obstructing the view of poll watchers.

The stage is thus being set for chaos.

The grand experiment of self governance known as America teeters on the brink. Never say that you weren't warned or didn't realize what was happening right in front of your oblivious eyes.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-27 06:20 AM | Reply

It laster longer than I thought it would.
~ Tom Jefferson

#2 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-09-27 06:27 AM | Reply

Yep, democracy is in big trouble in this country, and the GOP is becoming more radical. For example, this guy is running as a Republican candidate in the VA-02 Congressional District:

Jarome Bell
@JaromeBellVA
Audit all 50 states.

Arrest all involved. Try all involved. Convict all involved. Execute all involved.

#MaricopaCountyFraud

twitter.com

And yet some Democrats are refusing to create a filibuster cutout in order to pass real nation-wide election integrity bills. What could possibly go wrong?

#3 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 08:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half stupid and half not-so-stupid"

-Abraham Nerfherder

#4 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-09-27 09:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

There are roughly three types of Republicans-- the really rich, the really religious, and the really dumb.

Each type uses the other 2 for its own selfish needs.

10 years ago when I first started to vote I thought things would change by time I was 30. I guess I was stupid to think that (but not as stupid to give up and vote GOP).

#5 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-09-27 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This should be required reading for everyone.

I fear one day we'll be looking back not only at the leaders who ended democracy in America, but the silent enablers in power, the media who played the soundtrack, and citizens who let it pass.

#6 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-27 11:20 AM | Reply

Democrats and progressives now define democracy as their candidate winning. If a Republican wins that means democracy has ended according to Democrats and progressives.

#7 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 11:28 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Democrats and progressives now define democracy as their candidate winning."

According to Republicans, we don't live in a democracy.

So your comment, in addition to being wrong, also makes no sense.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:37 AM | Reply

"If a Republican wins that means democracy has ended"

Maybe. Unless you think Gerrymandering is democratic.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:39 AM | Reply

Great article - though lengthy.
Absolutely spot-on, too.
We're in deep s**t, folks.

#10 | Posted by YAV at 2021-09-27 11:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Democrats and progressives now define democracy as their candidate winning."

Wow; both projection AND confession. How positively Trumpian!

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#11. I can't even count how many times lefties and our media (same thing) described defeating Trump as "saving Democracy."

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 11:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#12 As Jan 6 made clear, Trump and his cronies oppose democracy when Trump loses the election.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I can't count how many times Republicans say we don't live in a democracy to begin with.

Bellringer, do we live in a democracy?

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:56 AM | Reply

#10 you're in deep do-do because Biden is a dementia-addled train wreck and his Veep is the most unpopular VP we've seen in decades.

Your only hope is that Biden steps down soon and Harris is actually a decent leader with a pulse for what is going on in America.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 11:57 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#14. Don't be stupid. We live in a Democracy as it is generically defined. Specifically we live in a democratic Republic. Is that too nuanced for you?

#16 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 11:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

FTA: "Democrats need to give anti-Trump Republicans a chance to do the right thing."

IOW we are doomed, cause republicans NEVER do the right thing.

#17 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-09-27 12:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

>>Democrats and progressives now define democracy as their candidate winning.
#7
See paragraphs 3 and 4 in TonyRomas post #1.

One point he makes in closing it up: why don't conservatives like Romney etc. speak up? They won't have a place in the crazy train. Why not defend the principles they care about?

#18 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-27 12:04 PM | Reply

"Don't be stupid"

Yeah Snoofy, don't be stupid. Otherwise you might find yourself voting Republican.

#19 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2021-09-27 12:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Is that too nuanced for you?

Let's work on that nuance:
Are Republicans attacking Democracy when they make it harder to vote?

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:06 PM | Reply

Let's work on that nuance:

Was the Jan 6 insurrection which was intended to install Trump as President an attack on Democracy?

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:08 PM | Reply

Is this an attack on democracy?
:

As of this spring, Republicans have proposed or passed measures in at least 16 states that would shift certain election authorities from the purview of the governor, secretary of state or other executive-branch officers to the legislature. An Arizona bill flatly states that the legislature may "revoke the secretary of state's issuance or certification of a presidential elector's certificate of election" by a simple majority vote. Some state legislatures seek to impose criminal penalties on local election officials alleged to have committed "technical infractions," including obstructing the view of poll watchers.

#22 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-27 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only noteworthy feature of BellRinger is his moral cowardice when it comes to answering very simple and straightforward questions.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:14 PM | Reply

"I can't even count how many times lefties and our media (same thing) described defeating Trump as "saving Democracy.""

Did you read the Eastman proposal?

Did you hear Trump tell his GA crowd the announced AZ numbers proved he won? Did you hear him say the GA head of elections didn't do the right thing?!?

And (most importantly), if Biden was claiming he won despite the numbers, BLM had attacked the Capitol on Jan 6th, and Biden was still claiming victory despite over 60 court losses...

...can you admit your head would explode???

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 12:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#23 your questions are stupid. Ask an intelligent question and I might grace you with a response.

#25 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 12:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#24. Trump's response to his loss has been deplorable. Good riddance

#26 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 12:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Not only is BellRinger a coward.

He's proud of his cowardice! It's his source of inner strength.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:25 PM | Reply

"Trump's response to his loss has been deplorable."

Why don't you see it as a call to abandon Democracy, when it's a clear call to abandon Democracy? He literally told his audience the "forensic audit" in Arizona proved he won. "Just look at the numbers."

Regarding the other two questions, please answer. TIA.

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 12:33 PM | Reply

It's the things BellRigner can't ever bring himself to say, that are worth paying attention to.

You really have to read between the lines with this guy.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:37 PM | Reply

#28. It absolutely is a call to abandon democracy. I'm glad the MFer is gone. I don't know how I can be more clear.

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 12:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Snoofy, get lost. The adults are talking.

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 12:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It absolutely is a call to abandon democracy."

So then why do you say crap like

"Democrats and progressives now define democracy as their candidate winning."

When it's Republicans who tried to overthrow our democracy?

Are you one of these smurf accounts where multiple users post whatever they think will best troll the libs at any given moment?

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 12:56 PM | Reply

"It absolutely is a call to abandon democracy."

And the folks you're voting for either parrot it, or enable it.

#33 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 01:03 PM | Reply

Uttering threats to force states to "find the votes" and "decertify" is absolutely illegal and unconstitutional. Trump should already be in jail.

#34 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2021-09-27 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#33. Ah. The old vote shaming gambit.

Now do the criminal Russiagate scandal by YOUR party (I'm small l Libertarian) and the scary allegiance of Big Tech, mainstream media, DNC and woke corporate and institutions unifying in a massive trust to control the flow of information during an election to favor one party over another.

#35 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 01:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#34. "Find the votes" didn't happen. Debunked. I can't speak to your other allegation.

#36 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 01:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Whatabout Russiagate?"

It never stops.
He literally can't stop deflecting.
It's very Trump like, with the constant bargaining over everything, and the position that anything is negotiable at any time.

At its core its moral relativism taken to the limit where morals no longer have any meaning.

For example, he says vax mandates are good, but mask mandates are bad, even though both mandates serve the same purpose.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:18 PM | Reply

At this point, I am not even certain Trump will be unchallenged if he runs again for the GOP nomination. And if he gets it, I would not be surprised to see another true conservative Republican run against him as a third party candidate. Trump is damaged good in the eyes of more than 60% of all Americans.

#38 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-27 01:22 PM | Reply

#34. "Find the votes" didn't happen.

LOL
www.google.com

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#38 The issue there is that the inmates have taken over the asylum.

Trump was the top choice at the recent GOP retreat in Michigan, at 55%

#2 Is DeSantis at about 27%. And Desantis was the clear #1 when Trump's name was not a possible choice.

So, by the time "regular" Republicans get to vote for the guy with the R after his name, whoever that candidate is, he's guaranteed to be Deplorable.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:26 PM | Reply

#38 Trump running again would be a gift to the Democratic Party.

Because of his negatives his path to victory is narrow.

Take a less polarizing candidate with far less baggage running on a similar platform and Dems will get destroyed in 2024

#41 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 01:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"At this point, I am not even certain Trump will be unchallenged if he runs again for the GOP nomination. "

Are you joking? I'm 100% certain he'll be challenged. I'm also 100% certain that if he is dumb enough to waste time and money pursuing the nomination, he'll not get it.

#42 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 01:30 PM | Reply

#38 - I'm at a complete loss to explain the irrational fear progressives have of Trump. As you say,

"Trump is damaged good in the eyes of more than 60% of all Americans."

Yet daily this blog is filled with quivering bowls of jello lamenting how Trump might get elected in 2024.

Relax.

Trump. Will. Never. Be. President. Again.

read that as many times as it takes to get over your fear of him.

#43 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 01:34 PM | Reply

"Because of his negatives his path to victory is narrow."

Narrow?

His path to victory has already been enacted by legislation in 15 states!

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:37 PM | Reply

"Trump. Will. Never. Be. President. Again."

Doesn't even have to be Trump.

The same ideology could come back with a different name.

You know, like you did, "Jakester," after you got banned from this site.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:40 PM | Reply

I keep hearing people say, "Trump is so stupid". "The vast majority of Americans hate him." "Trump is damaged goods".

All these things are unquestionably correct, and even understatemnets. But then I hear:

"But, but, but Qanon and Trump's rabid supporters will make sure he gets re-elected!"

This is grossly incorrect. Radical Trumpsters are a very small minority of American voters. Their numbers aren't anywhere high enough to get him the GOP nomination, much less elected again. Calm down. You're scaring the children.

I don't understand the disconnect.

#46 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 01:41 PM | Reply

But I hate to pour water on a pity party.

Keep shaking in your boots. Trump loves it.

#47 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 01:43 PM | Reply

"Take a less polarizing candidate with far less baggage running on a similar platform and Dems will get destroyed in 2024"

similar platform = the platform to end democracy.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:44 PM | Reply

"Radical Trumpsters are a very small minority of American voters. Their numbers aren't anywhere high enough to get him the GOP nomination, much less elected again."

Well, except that they got him the nomination in 2016, and again in 2020, and at their latest retreat Republicans overwhelmingly picked him again, with Trump at 55% and Trump idolator DeSantis at 27%.

You ask us to ignore reality.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 01:47 PM | Reply

Our Constitutional Crisis Is Already Here

And

Trump loves it.

#47 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

Yup

Pretty much sums it up.

#50 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-09-27 01:48 PM | Reply

This is the new face of the once great Democratic party, boys and girls. A party that not only has given up on the 2024 election, but has given it up to the biggest idiot, loser, and dunce in American political history.

Pathetic.

Thanks, Progressives! You built this.

#51 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 02:03 PM | Reply

As a liberal Democrat my main concerns for 2024 revolve around Joe Biden's health and his mediocre performance in office so far. And in the alternative, if he were not to run for re-election, I feel trepidation over the possibility that most Americans may be unwilling to support an aggressive African-Indian woman with a strong personality and a thin skin. Kamala Harris versus Trump might end up being even worse than HRC versus Trump. She easily could win the popular vote and get blown out in the EC.

#52 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-27 02:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"A party that not only has given up on the 2024 election, but has given it up to the biggest idiot, loser, and dunce in American political history."

Meanwhile, on another thread:

"Relax.
Trump. Will. Never. Be. President. Again."

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 02:07 PM | Reply

"Kamala Harris versus Trump "

That won't happen. Trump will not get the nomination. He is already eschewed by more than half of the Republicans. Besides, the party knows he's damaged goods. Consider also, he will be neck deep in income tax audits, not to mention the criminal charges which will probably be coming to a head by then.

I do think you have a point about his health. Should he still be alive in 2024, he hopefully will be wise enough to throw his support to vice president Harris.

It's refreshing to see a well thought out post that is on topic and makes valid points, rather than one that calls people names and rambles on incessantly about me and Goatman.

#54 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 02:19 PM | Reply

>>Their numbers aren't anywhere high enough to get him the GOP nomination, much less elected again.

Huh?
He owns the party.
The rest of the GOP has decided they can either power-sniff his neckfolds, drop out, or receive death threats.

Who do you think is getting the nomination?

#55 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-27 02:23 PM | Reply

She easily could win the popular vote and get blown out in the EC.
#52

That's pretty much the new reality for any Dem candidate.

#56 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-27 02:33 PM | Reply

rather than one that calls people names and rambles on incessantly about me and Goatman.
#54 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Wants people to believe he's not a liar.

Can't tell the truth about his previous username.

#57 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 02:39 PM | Reply

"Who do you think is getting the nomination?"

It's folly to try to make such predictions more than two years in advance, especially as volatile as politics are.

#58 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 02:39 PM | Reply

"That's pretty much the new reality for any Dem candidate."

The EC works to the advantage or disadvantage to both parties. It is a level playing field.

Hillary made the mistake of not campaigning in the right states, ignoring the realities of the EC. The Democrats for some reason don't learn from history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. That doesn't mean the EC works against them.

#59 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 02:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"He owns the party."

He own's a segment of it for sure, but the entire party? No way.

Even if you are correct, the party elite knows he is damaged goods and will not allow him to get the nomination. Before you say, "but the voters..." The voters don't matter in a primary. Primaries didn't exist before 1901. Even then, it was just one state. Today they aren't even required in half the states states. It is a mere formality. There is no Constitutional requirement for them.

www.utm.edu

#60 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 02:51 PM | Reply

You ask us to ignore reality.
#49 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Republicans have been doing it for the past 40+ years.

Why can't everyone else?

#61 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 02:52 PM | Reply

"That doesn't mean the EC works against them."

The number of EC votes per voter works against Democrats. No getting around it.

Ten highest: Alaska, Iowa, Ohio, Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, Texas, Florida, New Hampshire, Montana...seven of ten red states.

Ten lowest: Idaho, Connecticut, Oklahoma, Maryland, Illinois, Washington, Massachusetts, Virginia, New York, California...eight of ten blue states.
wallethub.com

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 02:53 PM | Reply

"The voters don't matter in a primary."

The first four words are the new mantra of The Trumpublican Party.

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-27 02:55 PM | Reply

The EC works to the advantage or disadvantage to both parties. It is a level playing field.
#59 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Figures, the poster who can't be honest about his prior username can't be honest about the EC only and directly benefitting the Republican Party.

Expect to see more elections in the future where the winning Republican Presidential Candidate loses the Popular vote but secures the EC.

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 02:55 PM | Reply

"Before you say, "but the voters..." The voters don't matter in a primary."

Since when?

The Republicans don't have nearly as many Superdelegates as the Democrats. That's how the inmates took over the asylum.

Primary victories is what propelled Trump to the top of the GOP.

No reason to think that won't happen again.

No reason to think if it's not Trump, it won't be some other Deplorable. DeSantis is currently the strong #2 choice of Republicans.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 03:02 PM | Reply

Trump should already be in jail.
#34 | POSTED BY DEREK_WILDSTAR

Democrats don't have the balls.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 03:04 PM | Reply

d rambles on incessantly about me and Goatman.

#54 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

Goatman, Goatman, Goatman, Goatman......

#67 | Posted by Zed at 2021-09-27 03:06 PM | Reply

#67 - Obsession, Obsession, Obsession, Obsession.

#68 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 03:13 PM | Reply

Goatman's favorite thing is making sure everyone knows he's Goatman, while denying he's Goatman.

Pretty sure RCade quit the DR.

#69 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 03:14 PM | Reply

What I've learned is that if any ignorant, hysterical, subversive group of people bands together closely enough a movement is created and cynical, ambitious people put themselves forward to lead them.

The modern Republican Party is an active and ongoing threat to democracy. Their threat is to the educated, the rational, and the patriotic.

#70 | Posted by Zed at 2021-09-27 03:15 PM | Reply

In a deeper psychological sense, the Trumpites are earnestly in search of a new mythology. One that has little or nothing to do with things such as normative American culture or Christianity.

Someone is going to start claiming that Trump performs miracles.

#71 | Posted by Zed at 2021-09-27 03:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

", hysterical, subversive group of people bands together closely enough a movement is created"

Before the Internet, there were a few such Deplorables in every town, but there usually weren't enough achieve critical mass.

Thanks to the Internet, they can seek out like-minded individuals in far-away places, allowing their cancer to spread throughout the nation.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 03:20 PM | Reply

The Constitutional Crisis would not be as scary if it were not fundamentally based on racist, White supremacist support. The people who do not support democracy mainly choose not to do so now that demographically minorities are gaining increasing amounts of power, and white people no longer get to control everything.

#73 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-27 03:20 PM | Reply

"In a deeper psychological sense, the Trumpites are earnestly in search of a new mythology."

And you can see this at their rallies.
They have so many different kinds of flags displayed, they're clearly searching for some kind of identity to bind them all together as one.

Which is of course the linguistic root of the word "fascism." Binding together.

Fascism
Etymology
1922, from Italian fascismo (from fascio ("group, association; bundle, fasces"), from Latin fasces ultimately with reference to the fasces or bundles of axes and rods carried before the magistrates of ancient Rome in token of their power of life and death). Originally only applied (usually capitalized) to Benito Mussolini's Italy which used a representation of the ancient fasces as its emblem.
en.wiktionary.org

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 03:23 PM | Reply

As long as Fascists "own" the abortion and guns debate, white conservatives, who may or may not be racists, are willing to overlook the Brown Shirts and hold on to the 30-something percent of the vote that allows them to matter in elections.

Not sure what can be done about either of those issues that would satisfy them... and still be Constitutional and ethical.

#75 | Posted by Corky at 2021-09-27 03:36 PM | Reply

similar platform = the platform to end democracy.

#48 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-09-27 01:44 PM

You are either a troll or you are a very dumb man.

#76 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 03:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

When Trump says the U.S. 'will not survive,' don't look away

Donald Trump, who's chiefly responsible for fueling fears over the nation's future, sat down with a conservative media outlet (OAN) over the weekend and poured some fuel on the fire:

'[Democrats] cheat on the elections. They don't need votes. They cheat on the elections. I mean, you look at 43,000 votes were found last night. They cheat on elections. When you cheat on elections you don't have to destroy the country. They are destroying our country. Our country will not survive this. Our country will not survive.'

As is always the case, what democracy's opponents do is more important than what they say. And as we've seen in recent months, Trump and his allies have done quite a bit, from trying to overturn election results to launching a campaign of new voter-suppression tactics to delegitimizing elections they disapprove of.

But as Yale's Timothy Snyder has warned, the rhetoric of democracy's opponents isn't irrelevant. When a former American president " who may yet run again and who continues to lead a major political party " tells a national audience that the United States "will not survive" because of election crimes that exist only in his mind, I'm not inclined to look away.

Steve Benen

#77 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-27 04:06 PM | Reply

"You are either a troll or you are a very dumb man."

Read the fine print in #77.

It explains how Trump is trying to destroy our Democracy.

Do you see that or not?

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 04:15 PM | Reply

"You are either a troll or you are a very dumb man."

The two are not mutually exclusive.

#79 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 04:18 PM | Reply

Everyone in a position of power was subject to the career-destroying bullying Trump can bring to bear on Republicans.

This angle on stealing an election is also why conservative judges have recently become so enamored of a highly strained constitutional interpretation which holds that state legislatures are the ultimate judges of state elections - even beyond the strictures of the state's constitution. For example, perhaps the state constitution says some of the power goes to the secretary of state or the governor or simply prohibits the legislature from tossing out the results of an election. But Justice Alito says that the federal constitution overrules all that and allows the state legislature total power to do anything it wants.

This legislative power grab models is we might call the election rigging nuclear option. But there's a more mundane and prosaic path.

One key factor in how 2020 played out is that a number of Republican secretaries of state - most visibly Georgia's Brad Raffensperger - simply refused the pressure to steal the election. Republicans have been making quick work of replacing those people with other Republicans who are Big Lie loyalists, either by electing new people or reassigning who gets to make those decisions.

Next we have the same kinds of stratagems playing out at the federal level. Absent a tie vote, Congress is not supposed to play anything but a procedural role in confirming the results of an election. Here 2020 was clearly just a dry run. Given the precedents set in 2020 it's difficult to imagine a Republican House or Senate simply accepting Democratic electoral majorities any more than they allow majority votes in the Senate for legislation they don't support.

What's notable here is that we have the same core dynamics at work. House elections routinely amplify Republican support. If Republicans and Democrats get the same number of votes nationwide in the House Republicans will get a fairly sizable House majority. Republicans actually barely try to do that anymore. Republicans have won a majority of the votes for President only once since 1988. Just once, in 2004. The real battle is in the electoral college. Structural advantages in the House amplify that even more.

One way to see Big Lie activism is simply an effort to use these structural advantages to maximum effect to throw out election results where Republicans don't win ... If you stew people long enough in the claim that the Democrats stole the 2020 election they'll feel justified in stealing it for themselves in 2024 because that's just fair play. You're just evening the score.

It's the essence of GOP grievance politics aimed squarely at the forehead of civic democracy.

Josh Marshall

#80 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-27 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#76 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

-GOAT-

#79 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

-GOAT

#81 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-27 04:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#81

"Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."
-- David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

^
We are seeing this happen before our very eyes.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I assure you this scenario is coming.
In 2022, we will see multiple challenges to Congress elections, all spurred on by Trump. Any narrow Dem wins will be challenged as corrupt/fixed...EVEN IN BLUE STATES. This series of challenges is the dress rehearsal for 2024.

Trump himself is putting this in motion so that he will run again in 2024 for president, lose again, then his followers will start a civil war (again) to place the losing party in power.
Except this time there will be bloodshed in many states, especially WI, MI, GA, TX, VA, NC, CA, and PA...maybe FL too.

#83 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-09-27 06:10 PM | Reply

BTW, welcome back Goatman versions 2 and 3.

#84 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-09-27 06:11 PM | Reply

It's funny how I posted here for months without any Goatman reference. Then one person said, "Jakester is Goatman" and this place went into a wild frenzy over it and like sheep, they all began repeating it. I found that pretty funny. I assumed the novelty would wear off, but months later, it is still a past time here.

I once stopped posting for a week hoping that everyone would get it out of their system, but they didn't. There is still a hard core obsession with me here. I may try stop posting again for a week or so to let everyon get it out of their system.

But like they say, doing the same thing twice and expecting different results is insanity. Given the obsession with me is so strong and the compelling urge people have to post about me, maybe the name of this place should be changed to the Jakester Retort.

#85 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 06:19 PM | Reply

"I once stopped posting for a week hoping that everyone would get it out of their system, but they didn't."

What did you expect?
That we wouldn't recognize you, and call you out?

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 06:46 PM | Reply

"I may try stop posting again for a week or so to let everyon get it out of their system."

Want to get out of our system? Then leave, and you won't be in our system any more.
Obviously you don't want that, and you're just doing what you always do:
"he managed to turn every thread into a conversation about himself"

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 06:48 PM | Reply

If Trump wins in 2024, it will have nothing to do with the GOP cheating and everything to do with Biden continuing his disastrous presidential policies.

1.) Economy is sputtering and growth in Q4 was cut by 41% by Atlanta Fed - the fed toolkit is exhausted. They need to taper and home prices are an obvious bubble that will destroy a lot of families when it corrects
2.) Inflation is skyrocketing and, as always, is much higher than actually reported
3.) Gas prices will continue to rise as a direct consequence of Biden's energy policies
4.) Covid will continue to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans as Biden lets in variant after variant
5.) Racial tensions continue to get worse as the left is doubling down on identity politics
6.) Biden's incompetent leadership led to the debacle in Afghanistan and the murder of 10 innocent people in trying to change the narrative and we will see world leaders continue to test him
7.) The border is a mess for all to see and direct result of Biden's policies and statements
8.) Homelessness and disorder is growing in every major city
9.) Violent crime is spiking again mainly driven by Dem support for their felon voting base - releasing violent felons for racial justice and to ease covid crowding is not a sound policy

Biden was elected on the false premise that he could control covid. As people see that was a lie, they are turning on him. He is -5.1 in the RCP average now. It doesn't matter who the Dems run in 2024 if they do not fix the 7 points above.

#88 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 07:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If Trump wins in 2024, it will have nothing to do with the GOP cheating and everything to do with Biden continuing his disastrous presidential policies."

Biden would have to ---- up pretty badly to be beaten by Trump. I honestly believe that is outside the realm of possibility.

#89 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 07:48 PM | Reply

"Biden would have to ---- up pretty badly to be beaten by Trump. I honestly believe that is outside the realm of possibility.

#89 | POSTED BY JAKESTER"

You honestly think Trump lost a sizable amount of the people that voted for him in 2020? Sorry, I don't buy it. Trump had record vote totals in 2020 and was undone by Biden's overwhelming turnout. Going into 2024, the Dem scare of 'Trump is literally Hitler' will have less and less meaning for the moderate Dems. They will stay home. I suspect we will have a low voter turnout election for Dems regardless of who they run unless they address my points above. The fact of the matter is that barring covid, Trump would have won in a landslide in 2020. Voters blamed him for covid and trusted Biden to fix it. He didn't. On top of it Biden loses the economic card, the inflation card, and the border is exactly as Trump said it would be.

#90 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 07:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You honestly think Trump lost a sizable amount of the people that voted for him in 2020? "

Considering who sits in the Oval Office now, the onswer is obviously yes.

He lost the independent vote in 2020 because of his dismal performance. It's not the left and right partly handle pullers who elect a president. It's the middle of the road thinkers, not the mind numb handle pullers.

He had them in 2016, but he lost them in 2020. So yes, he lost a "sizable amount", but they were the independents. He still had a grip on the Qanan/proudboy idiots. But they weren't enough and they won't be in 2024.

#91 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:04 PM | Reply

"The fact of the matter is that barring covid, Trump would have won in a landslide in 2020."

Not Covid.
Trump's disastrous handling of Covid.

"No, I don't take responsibility at all"
--President Donald J. TRUMP, March 13, 2020.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:07 PM | Reply

"He had them in 2016, but he lost them in 2020. So yes, he lost a "sizable amount", but they were the independents.
#91 | POSTED BY JAKESTER"

I think you need to re-check the vote numbers. Trump went up from 2016. He didn't lose support from 2016 with his supporters, he gained supporters. Dems were just able to increase their turnout more. If Trump has 2020 type turnout and Dems revert to 2016 turnout rates, Trump cruises to a victory.

#93 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 08:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Biden was elected on the false premise that he could control covid."

LOL.
The premise is rendered false by people like you who refuse to get vaccinated.

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:09 PM | Reply

"LOL.
The premise is rendered false by people like you who refuse to get vaccinated.
#94 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

I got vaccinated so strike 1. Biden has 270k dead Americans under his disastrous rule despite having an effective vaccine and has totally lost the public. Look at even NYC - no one is wearing masks now. Look at the NFL and college stadiums - no one wearing masks. He has lost legitimacy and so have the Dems. Their constant harping on Trump's covid response is rendered moot with Biden killing American with imported variants at rates no different than our pre-vaccine levels. So, those that voted Biden based on covid (and there were huge numbers), will stay home.

#95 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 08:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Biden has 270k dead Americans under his disastrous rule despite having an effective vaccine and has totally lost the public."

This is a ridiculous assertion.

What do you think Biden could do differently?

What could Biden do to get Trumpers vaccinated, when Trump himself gets booed by Trumpers when he says Trumpers should get vaccinated?

With your 20/20 hindsight, what should Biden have done differently?

We're all ears.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:27 PM | Reply

"Look at the NFL and college stadiums - no one wearing masks."

Again, what would you have Biden do differently?

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:29 PM | Reply

"Biden killing American with imported variants"

LOL.
You're mad that Biden didn't close the border, instead kept it just as open as Trump did.
That's just never gonna be believable.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:31 PM | Reply

"What do you think Biden could do differently?"

Stop Delta and the foreign variants from entering the US. Invest in therapeutics. Make policies to protect the most vulnerable and let the rest of the country to get on with their lives so actually will comply.

"What could Biden do to get Trumpers vaccinated,"

Fire Kamala Harris over her anti-vax stance pre-election. But, the lowest vax rate is among blacks, not Trump supporters so it is not really a Trump issue.

"With your 20/20 hindsight, what should Biden have done differently?
We're all ears.
#96 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I told you - control the border and stop variants. But at this point, he has lost the narrative and people have stopped listening to him even in the deep blue cities. Take NYC - no masks to be seen. He he cannot control his own base, how is he going to reach Trump's?

#99 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 08:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Again, what would you have Biden do differently?
#97 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

He is going to do nothing - and he will get the same results. He can't control NYC and LA at this point. Forget middle-America.

#100 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 08:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Biden has 270k dead Americans under his disastrous rule despite having an effective vaccine and has totally lost the public.

Seems that Skeptical's ignorance is showing yet again (no surprise). The data is even on the Front Page at this very moment.

Since Delta began circulating widely in the U.S., Covid has exacted a horrific death toll on red America: In counties where Donald Trump received at least 70 percent of the vote, the virus has killed about 47 out of every 100,000 people since the end of June, according to Charles Gaba, a health care analyst. In counties where Trump won less than 32 percent of the vote, the number is about 10 out of 100,000.

www.nytimes.com

It would also be interesting to find out how many of the less than

#101 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-27 08:36 PM | Reply

"control the border and stop variants."

The variants can't be stopped. Obviously the border crisis can be fixed by anyone with the cojones to do it.

#102 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:37 PM | Reply

"Stop Delta and the foreign variants from entering the US."
How could he do that, when Trump couldn't do it?
???

"Invest in therapeutics."
Therapeutics exist.
Trumpers won't take them.

"Make policies to protect the most vulnerable"
Oh, you mean vaccine mandates for Federals workers, contractors, and businesses with over 50 employees.

" and let the rest of the country to get on with their lives so actually will comply."
Oh, you mean like let people go to sporting events without a mask.

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:37 PM | Reply

"Take NYC - no masks to be seen."

Sounds like Biden is letting the rest of the country get on with their lives.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:38 PM | Reply

I told you - control the border and stop variants.

Which means completely shutting down international trade, since nothing moves without people entering and leaving countries. IOW, something that Trump himself has never called for and something that would immediately send the global economy into depression.

Just another worthless idiotic opinion from a worthless idiotic poster who refuses to accept their banning and keeps returning with yet another worthless moniker spewing the same idiocy that got them banned previously.

#105 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-09-27 08:40 PM | Reply

"He can't control NYC and LA at this point."

It's the President's job to control our cities?
With respect to COVID, we burned that bridge when Trump said "No, I don't take responsibility at all."
Elections matter.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:40 PM | Reply

Fire Kamala Harris...

Under what authority?

#107 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-27 08:42 PM | Reply

"I told you - control the border and stop variants."

Do you mean, close the border? Is that what control the border means? How exactly do you envision controlling the border to keep variants out, short of simply closing it?

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:45 PM | Reply

"Obviously the border crisis can be fixed"

--------.
What's broken, and how can it be fixed?
You have no clue.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:46 PM | Reply

#107 - good question. I wasn't sure, so I googled it.

No, the president cannot fire the VP.

Besides, Constitutionally, the VP has no power except as a tie breaker in the Senate. Obviously the VP can influence the president, but having actual power, the VP has none (except as Senate tie breaker)

#110 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:46 PM | Reply

Biden could tell Harris to step down, and she probably would.

But he's probably not going to, because he's not that kind of a leader.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 08:50 PM | Reply

Fun fact: The Vice President is the only person who is a member of two of the three branches of government. She is president of the Senate (legislative branch) and the executive branch.

#112 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 08:53 PM | Reply

the VP has no power except as a tie breaker in the Senate

The real power of the VP is to score election votes that the president him/herself would not likely get.

#113 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-27 09:00 PM | Reply

#13 - that's why the VP usually comes from a state with a lot of electoral votes. But that "power" is pre-election. Once elected, there is no legal power, just advisor/confidante power.

#114 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 09:06 PM | Reply

#109. It was relatively stable until Biden came in and reversed all of the actions that created said stability. Had Biden said nothing and changed nothing we wouldn't have this border and humanitarian crisis.

Biden and Democrats are horrible to humanity.

#115 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 09:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"#101 | POSTED BY TONYROMA"

Yes, the Biden-Covid variants are hitting the red states harder as the blue states harvested all their old people during the initial wave of covid - like NY, MA, MI, etc.

#116 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 09:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"#109. It was relatively stable until Biden came in and reversed all of the actions that created said stability."

It was "relatively stable" under Trump? When we heard dire warnings about caravan after caravan?

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:07 PM | Reply

"Biden and Democrats are horrible to humanity."

Planning on crying yourself to sleep on your MyPillow again?

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It was relatively stable until Biden came in and reversed all of the actions that created said stability.

This statement seem vague, like you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

What had Trump done to "stabilize" the border?

What did Biden do to reverse all of that?

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-27 10:22 PM | Reply

"I purposefully downplayed the virus." -- COVI-Donald

#120 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-27 10:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""I purposefully downplayed the virus." -- COVI-Donald
#120 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 "

"I fling open the border so I can get all the Biden covid variants into the US. Bring on Delta, Lambda, Mu - I am too old and stupid to pretend to know how to stop the virus" -- COVI-Biden

ps. Yes, my kid did admit on tape to smoking crack with Marion Barry (disgraced Washington DC mayor). We are very proud of him and he is still the smartest man I know.

#121 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-27 11:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Marion Barry (disgraced Washington DC mayor)."

I saw the tape.
The b---- set him up.
(I really should have bought one of those t-shirts when I had the chance.)

Why is drug use such a problem for you? Are you Mormon?

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:34 PM | Reply

"#122 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

In the case of Hunter, I just find it funny. Reflects very poorly on 'The Big Guy'...

#123 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-28 12:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

in response to #1...Tony.

Yeah, most of us see it. The better question is what the hell are we
supposed to do about it? When you have one Party (the GOP), that is actively
wanting to cheat, lie, do anything they have to, to win, what CAN a nation do?

You can protest, sure. But if it's falling on the deaf ears of a party that has
already decided on Fascism and Party Loyalty over Democracy, I don't know what
good it will really do.

What we really need is either a Judicial System or the Military to intervene,
and neither will (apparently) be coming to the rescue. Barring that, there is
Congress (see problem No. 1 above) [the GOP doesn't care].

I would love to find a way out (somebody! show me a way around this!), but I
sadly think that the Great Experiment may be close to over. I've already
considered this point, and have plans to get the hell out of the country
(upon retirement) if it slides any further to the Reich...(yes I spelled that right).

I've also warned my son. And am fine with him going off to Canada or to Europe upon
graduation (if America fails).

Seriously, I would love to find a solution. I love my country (well, the non-ignorant
parts anyways), and have served her for 20 yrs plus as a Fed. But the more I see
the news, and the more I hear and read the rhetoric, it looks more and more like we
are headed for a nasty divorce. And I ask those on the right, will that truly be
worth it? (fyi...if you answer yes to this, you are an idiot, and clearly have not
thought out the ramifications of your fanciful wish fulfillment.)

#124 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-09-28 08:08 AM | Reply

Biden should stop playing footsie with the Republicans especially when they are supporting deplorables and their domestic terrorism.

Pack the supreme court. It's perfectly constitutional and sure would wake up things.

And it would restore the balance of power between the branches.

I don't care if "they will do it too".

Time to stop playing nice. Or as the article implies accept the inevitable collapse and end of this particular "grand experiment" in self governance.

Better luck next time I guess.

#125 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-09-28 11:53 AM | Reply

Earth the dems had a golden opportunity after 1/6
------- was impeached
The dems should have had a long drawn out impeachment trial exposing day in and day out the lies and insanity of ------- and the republicans. Put numerous politicians pundits and advisers on the stand and make them defend or deny the insanity, under oath
A non stop public discourse would have sanitized the conversation burning out the lies
Instead dems ran from it which allows ------- to claim victory, normalizes the corruption and treason and allows the shock to wear off
Opportunities like that come along rarely

#126 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-09-28 12:41 PM | Reply

#126. That was the problem. Dems didn't treat either Trump impeachment seriously. Both were highly partisan political theater in lieu of being sober and serious affairs.

The GOP disgustingly lowered the impeachment bar with Clinton. Democrats took the baton from the GOP and turned the process into a sick joke.

#127 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 12:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#125. Before we know it the court will have 27 justices and will have lost all validity in the eyes of the public. It's amazing how unprincipled progressives are. It's all about political power. Nothing more. The ends always justify the means. People like you are the reason we have a bill of rights and separation of powers.

#128 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 12:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

TH: Part of the reason the "opportunities" arose in the first place was because the Dems chose an unlikeable and borderline tolerable candidate in HRC in 2016, - which in turn lead to the rise of Trump, - which in turn lead to the rise of all these current "opportunities" for the Dems. But just like before, the Dems do not have a popular leader such as Barack Obama or Bernie Sanders or Bill Clinton to make the most of these opportunities. I guarantee you that if we had a strong leader like Sanders in the White House right now we would be seeing all opportunities maximized.

#129 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-28 12:52 PM | Reply

>A non stop public discourse would have sanitized the conversation burning out the lies

Nah. Most people just don't care.

Now, if you cut their wi-fi, look TF out.

#130 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2021-09-28 12:53 PM | Reply

Mod one of the first things dems need to learn is to stop trying to get republicans to help them with anything
McConnell is going to destroy the economy because he doesn't want to pay for the stuff he authorized

#131 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-09-28 12:56 PM | Reply

"Some Republican candidates have already begun preparing to declare fraud in 2022, just as Larry Elder tried meekly to do in the California recall contest."

It really is telling about the Dem party that they completely ignore reality about the campaigns they lost and all the lawsuits that came as a result of those, and changes made by Dems to try to not lose that way again. I agree it is bad to try to make voting results biased yet Liberals refuse to call it a problem when it is their party doing it. You can't argue it, it's all public record. All you can do is accept it and either throw temper tantrums like the kids you are or accept it and try to hold your party accountable for it, so then you can make the right, objective changes and THEN start calling on the other party to do the same. Otherwise, you are governing by hypocrisy.

"The GOP disgustingly lowered the impeachment bar with Clinton. Democrats took the baton from the GOP and turned the process into a sick joke."

This is America politics in one sentence. Each party sets the bar lower when they are in power. Fantastic sentence! Now if only everyone could find this kind of objectivity in their minds and start looking to change politics with that logic. Oh the country we would be.

#132 | Posted by humtake at 2021-09-28 01:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#132 - bears repeating:

"This is America politics in one sentence. Each party sets the bar lower when they are in power. "

It's sad, but true

#133 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-28 01:05 PM | Reply

"Democrats took the baton from the GOP and turned the process into a sick joke."

Uh, no, the GOP Senate did that when they didn't even hold a trial.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 01:08 PM | Reply

"Each party sets the bar lower when they are in power."

What a crock:

"Recent administrations with the MOST criminal indictments:
Trump (Republican) " 215
Nixon (Republican) " 76
Reagan (Republican) " 26

"Recent administrations with the LEAST criminal indictments:
Obama (Democrat) " 0
Carter (Democrat) " 1
Clinton (Democrat) " 2

"Notice a pattern?"

A Facebook post said that there have been 317 criminal indictments under three recent Republican presidents and only three under three recent Democratic presidents.
The claim is essentially on target for the Democratic presidents, but the comparison to the GOP presidents is overstated, because the numbers of Trump and Nixon administration indictments claimed are greatly exaggerated.
Even so, with a generous count, there were roughly 142 people indicted in the three GOP presidents " far less than 317, but far more than the two under the Democrats.
www.politifact.com

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 04:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#135 | Posted by snoofy

Jakester? Humtake? No response to actual facts? Just going to run away?

#136 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-28 08:35 PM | Reply

#125. Before we know it the court will have 27 justices and will have lost all validity in the eyes of the public. It's amazing how unprincipled progressives are. It's all about political power. Nothing more. The ends always justify the means. People like you are the reason we have a bill of rights and separation of powers.

#128 | Posted by BellRinger

Trump tactic #1 - accuse your opponent of your own crimes. "YOURE the puppet!"

YOUR CULT stole a supreme court seat. YOUR CULT is all about political power - willing to KILL AMERICANS to prevent democrats from saving their lives.

Re-balancing the court would be the UNDOING of a crime.

The anti democratic senate doesn't give you enough power. It's not enough that the electoral college lets you win when more people vote for the other side. You need to steal supreme court seats and be able to overturn elections too. Fascists.

#137 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-28 08:38 PM | Reply

#137 9 times in our history a SCOTUS vacancy occurred when POTUS and Senate were controlled by opposite parties during an election year. 8 of those justices were not confirmed prior to the election. I get being upset over Garland however it was a move that did have precedent.

#138 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 09:25 PM | Reply

#137. Seriously, take your meds. I can see your spittle as you furiously type.

#139 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 09:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

POSTED BY SKEPTICAL

Possibly one of our dumbest posters.

Reminds me of special Eddie. But even more special.

I like how he believes now that the TrumpVirus has taken over America due to Trump's ineptitude and desire to kill Americans, it's Biden's fault.

Stupid regressive conservatives, zero critical thinking skills. All bullshht.

#140 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 09:36 PM | Reply

Trump virus?

I'm sorry, where did the virus originate?

#141 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 09:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

where did the virus originate?
#141 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

China.

But you can appreciate the deserved derision of associating Trump's name with the virus, considering his deplorable response to it in 2020, yes?

"I purposefully downplayed the virus." -- COVI-Donald

#142 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 09:54 PM | Reply

#142 our COVID death rate has been in par with other western nations. Travel ban out of China effective Jan 31, 2000 to which Biden labeled it xenophobic.

Did Trump force Cuomo and Whitmer into putting COVID patients into nursing homes?

Do I have a problem I own with some of the ways in which he handled this?

Absolutely.

Did he create a global pandemic?

Obviously not.

#143 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Forgive any typos and clumsy sentences. I'm typing from my phone.

#144 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:02 PM | Reply

"Did Trump force Cuomo and Whitmer into putting COVID patients into nursing homes?"

Where should they have put them?
???

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:02 PM | Reply

"Travel ban out of China effective Jan 31, 2000 to which Biden labeled it xenophobic."

What's worse is that it was completely ineffective.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:03 PM | Reply

#137. Seriously, take your meds. I can see your spittle as you furiously type.

#139 | Posted by BellRinger

Yeah we're just all so impressed the way you kept your cool as fascists took over your party.

#147 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-28 10:07 PM | Reply

Trump virus?

I'm sorry, where did the virus originate?

#141 | Posted by BellRinger

The mental virus of trumpism is the reason we can't end the covid virus pandemic.

Rupert murdoch was the origin.

#148 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-28 10:09 PM | Reply

Travel ban out of China

The virus came through Europe.

Also. Why would you need to put a travel ban against a virus that's a hoax?

Also the CDC could have done more had Trump not defunded it to pay for his tax cut.

Also it was revealed Trump and Kushner wanted to allow covid to spread in costal cities in order to kill the more Democratic costal communities.

TrumpVirus killed 500,000+ Americans.

500,000 dead Americans and counting. Thanks to the TrumpVirus.

#149 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 10:09 PM | Reply

Did he create a global pandemic?

Obviously not.

#143 | Posted by BellRinger

Give us your best estimate of how many lives would have been saved if trump had taken covid seriously from the beginning. Never whined about masks. Never whined about the CDC or FDA. Created a rapid distribution plan for vaccines when they were ready. Got vaccinated in public. Didn't have packed unmasked rallies...

What's your best guess?

#150 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-28 10:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Also it was revealed Trump and Kushner wanted to allow covid to spread in costal cities in order to kill the more Democratic costal communities."

Letting the virus kill more libs is one of the things BellRinger thinks Trump could have done better on.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:11 PM | Reply

Trump was forcing states to compete for PPE.

States had to go around the Trump administration in order to acquire PPE.

Trump is directly and indirectly responsible for every American who died from the TrumpVirus.

#152 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 10:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#152 is Merkel directly and indirectly responsible for every death caused by Xi virus?

#153 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#153

Do you believe Xi was the president of the United States?

He was tasked with protecting the general welfare of our nation?

Weird how you can't assign blame to the person who was responsible for safeguarding the nation.

I mean. After it became apparent COVID wasn't a hoax or going away, Trump started blaming Governors for covid in their states.

"Everyone's fault but Trump's!"
-Trumpers.

#154 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 10:28 PM | Reply

Did he create a global pandemic?
Obviously not.
#143 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You didn't remark specifically on Trump's quote. Why is that? Because, IMO, him purposefully downplaying the virus was what led to the politicization of the virus we are still witnessing to this day. He knew earlier than most how severe it would get and yet he downplayed it for political gain. Worst, he completely admitted to it on the record.

#155 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 10:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#154. You do realize it's a global pandemic, right?

#156 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#155 I mostly agree with that.

#157 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Alright, cheers!

#158 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 10:35 PM | Reply

#149

Trump virus? It's the communist China virus. Why are you carrying water for them?

#159 | Posted by willowby at 2021-09-28 10:35 PM | Reply

#152 is Merkel directly and indirectly responsible for every death caused by Xi virus?
#153 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Sure, why not?
Just explain to us why the buck wouldn't stop with the nation's leader.
Just explain that.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:38 PM | Reply

You do realize it's a global pandemic, right?

Why do you pretending you're here for a discussion when what you really want to say is:

"Everyone's fault but Trump's!"

#161 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 10:41 PM | Reply

"Everyone's fault but Trump's!"
#161 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It rained here yesterday. Trump's fault!
#20 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Te-he-he

#162 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 10:42 PM | Reply

#152 is Merkel directly and indirectly responsible for every death caused by Xi virus?
#153 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Let's try this another way, not that your cowardly ass can handle this discussion:
Germany's death rate from COVID-19 is about half the USA. USA 2,133 per 1M, Germany 1,119 per 1M.

Do you chalk up that discrepancy to the differences in leadership by Trump and Merkel, or do you shut your stupid mouth now?

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:46 PM | Reply

Trump virus? It's the communist China virus. Why are you carrying water for them?
#159 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

Because I'm an American who believes it's the president's job to protect this nation from foreign threats. Be it man or virus.

Viral threats are always present. Prior administrations, specifically the Obama administration dealt with SARS, MERS, avian flu, swine flu, Ebola ...

If it were the Trump administration, they'd release the ebola patient in the middle of Times Square in order to kill as many liberals as possible.

Wake up.

#164 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 10:47 PM | Reply

#163 Now do Italy.

#165 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And the UK.

#166 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:51 PM | Reply

Viral threats are always present. Prior administrations, specifically the Obama administration dealt with SARS, MERS, avian flu, swine flu, Ebola ...

None of those were a global pandemic. It's been over a century since the world has seen something this bad.

#167 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 10:52 PM | Reply

"This illustrates is what is now clear to many observers: An effective response to the virus needs to be orchestrated as a coherent system of actions taken simultaneously."
hbr.org

Trump is simply not capable of orchestrating a coherent system of actions.

That's why our death toll is on par with Italy (2,167 deaths per 1M), and will end up surpassing it, as Republicans continue to commit suicide in the name of freedom.

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:56 PM | Reply

"It's been over a century since the world has seen something this bad."

The world has never before seen America fall flat on our face this bad.

Congratulations, Republicans!
You Built That.

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 10:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#164

Nice attempt at not explaining your reason for carrying communist China's water.

#170 | Posted by willowby at 2021-09-28 11:00 PM | Reply

Nice attempt at not explaining your reason for carrying communist China's water.
#170 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY

Oh man. I didn't realize you're this obtuse.

Let's put it in a way you can understand.

If Obama had defunded the CDC, then downplayed and lied about a virus that ended up killing 500,000+ Americans, while at the same time telling people not to take any mitigating precautions, such as masks and social distancing.

You wouldn't be blaming China.

Trump owns his virus. It's his.

It will be the only thing remembered about him.

The TrumpVirus of 2020.

#171 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 11:49 PM | Reply

Trump virus?

I'm sorry, where did the virus originate?

#141 | Posted by BellRinger

"Only 15 cases. Soon to be zero!"

"And, again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

That's a "pretty good" job!!!!

"It's going to disappear one day. It's like a miracle. It will disappear."

It will disappear. Like magic!!

"I wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down..."

I don't care where it originated. Trump failed in his duty to protect Americans.

And now a Million Americans dead due to Trumpy's criminally negligence and incompetence.

It's the Trumpy Virus now because he owns the suffering caused by his criminal incompetence.

#172 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-09-29 06:46 AM | Reply

#172 are you suggesting that had a Democrat been present we'd have had zero deaths?

#173 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-29 07:01 AM | Reply

#172 are you suggesting that had a Democrat been present we'd have had zero deaths?

#173 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It would not be what it is today: a dumb-ass, bloody-minded Republican mass murder.

#174 | Posted by Zed at 2021-09-29 09:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

172 are you suggesting that had a Democrat been present we'd have had zero deaths?

#173 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

No. Are you?

#175 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-09-29 01:02 PM | Reply

#172 are you suggesting that had a Democrat been present we'd have had zero deaths?

#173 | Posted by BellRinger

No one said that but I can understand why you'd want to make a strawman to argue against.

Give us your best estimate of how many lives would have been saved if trump had taken covid seriously from the beginning. Never whined about masks. Never whined about the CDC or FDA. Created a rapid distribution plan for vaccines when they were ready. Got vaccinated in public. Didn't have packed unmasked rallies...

What's your best guess?

#176 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 01:37 PM | Reply

" Give us your best estimate of how many lives would have been saved if trump had taken covid seriously from the beginning."

I'd like to see that answer as well.

Bellringer? What say you?

#177 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 02:32 PM | Reply

#177.

First, I don't know what a Dem POTUS would have done differently.

Second, even if we lay out some hypotheticals, in the benefit of hindsight of course, I don't know to what extent the numbers would have been mitigated. We are talking about a global pandemic - a virus that isn't sentient.

Also, I take a big picture approach to issues. Public health is a far bigger issue than a narrow focus on COVID deaths. The shutdowns did serious health and economic damage to the public at large. HUGE tradeoffs need to be taken into account with shutdowns and to a lesser degree chronic masking. Crucial loss of development for children, loss of livelihoods, etc. ALL of these things matter greatly.

#178 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-29 03:48 PM | Reply

" First, I don't know what a Dem POTUS would have done differently."

You're being disingenuous. You know EXACTLY the central difference. Why are you afraid to admit it up front?

#179 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 03:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" Second, even if we lay out some hypotheticals, in the benefit of hindsight of course, I don't know to what extent the numbers would have been mitigated"

Strange; Dr. Birx had no such problems, suggesting everything over 100K was on Trump. Why can't you apply similar reasoning?

#180 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 03:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" HUGE tradeoffs need to be taken into account"

Unless you have higher death rates based on staying at home, you're farting in a windstorm.

#181 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 03:59 PM | Reply

#172

Another idiot carrying communist China's water. You, I can understand. clownshack knows better.

#182 | Posted by willowby at 2021-09-29 04:03 PM | Reply

#181. So those negative outcomes don't matter at all?

The scary thing is the developmental loss our children experienced through all of this, especially considering in person learning has not shown to be any kind of spreader event. This is something that will take years to fully manifest.

#183 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-29 04:10 PM | Reply

First, I don't know what a Dem POTUS would have done differently.

Second, even if we lay out some hypotheticals, in the benefit of hindsight of course, I don't know to what extent the numbers would have been mitigated. We are talking about a global pandemic - a virus that isn't sentient.

Also, I take a big picture approach to issues. Public health is a far bigger issue than a narrow focus on COVID deaths. The shutdowns did serious health and economic damage to the public at large. HUGE tradeoffs need to be taken into account with shutdowns and to a lesser degree chronic masking. Crucial loss of development for children, loss of livelihoods, etc. ALL of these things matter greatly.

#178 | Posted by BellRinger

I didn't ask for an exact number. I asked for your best guess at how many people died because of trump's approach to covid.

You say you dont know what a dem potus would have done, but dems dont elect anti science sociopathic con men, so any dem president wouldn't have: lied about the risks. Sold unproven cures. whined about masks. whined about the CDC or FDA. Neglect Creating a rapid distribution plan for vaccines when they were ready. Got vaccinated in secret. Hold packed unmasked rallies...

Why can't you even hazard a GUESS at how many people trump killed by doing these things? What are your afraid of?

#184 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 04:14 PM | Reply

The scary thing is the developmental loss our children experienced through all of this, especially considering in person learning has not shown to be any kind of spreader event. This is something that will take years to fully manifest.

#183 | Posted by BellRinger

Yes you're so worried about the kids' development. Not enough to protect them from the virus. Not enough to consider what happens to them when their parents die of covid. Not enough to get vaccinated and end the pandemic so they can go back to school normally. But SOOOO worried.

#185 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 04:15 PM | Reply

#185. Nothing but falsely assigned positions.

Ever notice how your advocacies are presented as Utopia and anyone who disagrees in any way on any aspect is a murderous cult member?

If you ever grow up I'll be happy to have a rational discussion with you as an adult. Until then ...

#186 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-29 04:26 PM | Reply

"in person learning has not shown to be any kind of spreader event."

Link?
Because here's a link that says you're lying. A healthy 20 year old who thought he didn't need a vaccine.
drudge.com

#187 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 04:39 PM | Reply

"Why can't you even hazard a GUESS at how many people trump killed by doing these things? What are your afraid of?"

It's the classic non-denial denial.
He'll say Trump could have done better.
But he won't say how much better, or what he should have done better.

It's all just smoke and mirrors with this guy.
Correction: Smoke, mirrors, and ivermectin.

#188 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 04:41 PM | Reply

"So those negative outcomes don't matter at all?"

Something you can't quantify, but can add gallons of hyperbole, versus a quantifiable number of deaths?!? While long-term health effects of Covid don't enter the equation???

You're joking, right?

#189 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 04:46 PM | Reply

"Ever notice how your advocacies are presented as Utopia and anyone who disagrees in any way on any aspect is a murderous cult member?"

Moments later,

"So those negative outcomes don't matter at all?"

Ever notice how you're a twit?

#190 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 04:59 PM | Reply

"Also, I take a big picture approach to issues. Public health is a far bigger issue than a narrow focus on COVID deaths."

If you weren't lying when you said that, you'd favor both gun control and single payer health care.

#191 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 05:00 PM | Reply

"The shutdowns did serious health and economic damage to the public at large."

If you weren't crying crocodile tears when you said that, you'd want to claw back some of the gains from the top 20%, for whom COVID was a boon, and use it to address those issues.

#192 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 05:02 PM | Reply

Ever notice how your advocacies are presented as Utopia and anyone who disagrees in any way on any aspect is a murderous cult member?

If you ever grow up I'll be happy to have a rational discussion with you as an adult. Until then ...

#186 | Posted by BellRinger

I've never used the word utopia on this site. I've never said dems have all the answers.

But it is a fact that you are in a fascist cult by every definition of those 2 words.

You can't deny it so you whine about it instead.

And currently your fascist cult is fighting to kill more people with covid, so yes you're in a murderous fascist cult, and you're spreading propaganda that helps them murder more people.

If you're tired of being called a fascist cult member, stop being a fascist cult member.

#193 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 06:40 PM | Reply

If you ever grow up I'll be happy to have a rational discussion with you as an adult. Until then ...

#186 | Posted by BellRinger

That's a clever way to run and hide from having to give your estimate of how many people were killed by trump's incompetence and lies.

Coward.

#194 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 06:41 PM | Reply

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