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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 28, 2021

A Department of Homeland Security whistleblower leveled a series of bombshell accusations Sunday in his first television interview, accusing his Trump administration superiors of pressing for manipulated intelligence on three critical subjects: Russian support for Donald Trump, the Mexican border, and the white supremacist threat inside the United States.

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Every week we learn of some new revelation about just how corrupt the Trump presidency really was:

Brian Murphy, the former principal deputy undersecretary in DHS's Office of Intelligence and Analysis, filed a whistleblower complaint last year--as well as a handful of internal complaints and reports --that all painted a frightening picture of how things were running in the department tasked with keeping Americans safe. "From the outset, there were three things that I was told that we would look to manipulate intelligence on and bend the truth about," Murphy told George Stephanopoulos on ABC's This Week. "And I told them upfront that I wasn't going to do it."

On Russia, the border, and white supremacy, Murphy said he felt "intense pressure to try to take intelligence and fit a political narrative" " accusing administration officials of demanding information be manipulated to burnish Trump's image and help his messaging.


#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 09:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Jeez. Biden has been in office for 8 months and all lefties want to talk about is Trump.

It's a clear sign that Biden is a train wreck.

#2 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 09:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Well, maybe he's more of a dumpster fire.

#3 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 09:50 PM | Reply

Supplemental article:

Trump Second Term Would Be 'Existential Threat to Democracy,' Says Former Admin Member

In his September complaint, Murphy alleged that he was told to "specifically modify the section on White Supremacy in a manner that made the threat appear less severe, as well as include information on the prominence of violent 'left-wing' groups." Those instructions allegedly came after acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf and Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli reviewed Murphy's initial report and raised concerns "regarding how the HTA would reflect upon President Trump."


www.newsweek.com

#4 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 09:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#2 ... Jeez. Biden has been in office for 8 months and all lefties want to talk about is Trump. ...

Do you not think it may be worthwhile to look at and discuss a significant level of possible corruption in a Presidential administration?

Serious question.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 09:53 PM | Reply

#5. Go right ahead. Be careful for what you wish for. Biden has a possible scandal that is say beyond anything Trump is accused of.

#6 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-27 09:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

"Biden has a possible scandal that is say beyond anything Trump is accused of."

I love a teaser!
When does Trump/QAnon tell you what the scandal is?

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

When does Trump/QAnon tell you what the scandal is?

I'm sure it's Hunter's laptop. Or is that Skeptical's gig? I can't keep them straight.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-27 10:10 PM | Reply

I think Biden deep down is a good hearted old time liberal. That's great, except for the fact he, like most politicians, loves the power. So he kowtows to the toxic progressives to maintain it. I feel the same way about Harris. I think she is a sensible liberal, but is abandoning her values to placate the rabid side of the left. That's sad.

However, I think Harris has a better chance of returning to true liberalism than Biden. So I pin my hopes on her.

#9 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 10:12 PM | Reply

@#6 ... Go right ahead ...

I note that you have completely avoided answering my serious question.

... Biden has a possible scandal that is say beyond anything Trump is accused of. ...

That krakens thing again?

(jus' askin')


#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:14 PM | Reply

I like how Hunter Biden's laptop -- or whatever it is -- is an even bigger scandal than trying to overthrow the (ahem) duly elected President of the United States of America.

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

@#9 ... he, like most politicians, loves the power. So he kowtows to the toxic progressives to maintain it. ...

I don't see that.

Got any specific examples of how he "kowtows to the toxic progressives."

And then, as a subsequent followup, maybe I'll ask you to explain that "toxic" appellation.

But, first things first.

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Sure. The progressives have no problem with open borders. Biden used to. But now that he is president, he is doing little to control them.

There's one example.

#13 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 10:26 PM | Reply

Biden also once advocated jailing employers who hired illegals.

Not a peep on that any more.

#14 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 10:30 PM | Reply

"But now that he is president, he is doing little to control them."

I love how Border Patrol agents are riding on horseback and whipping Haitians, and that translates to: little is being done to control the borders.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:31 PM | Reply

"Biden also once advocated jailing employers who hired illegals."

That's already the law. He doesn't need to "advocate" for a law that already exists.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 10:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#14 ... Biden also once advocated jailing employers who hired illegals. ...

And the problem with that is?

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:35 PM | Reply

@#13 ... Sure. The progressives have no problem with open borders. ...

"Open borders"

You really need to be a whole lot more specific in the allegations of your comments.

What specifically are you alluding to?

Emphasis on specifically.

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:38 PM | Reply

#17 - there is no problem with that. However, pursuant to your original question, once he became president, not a word on acting on it. As I said in the rest of the post you didn't C&P, not a word on that anymore.

Please don't become a snoofy and quote me out of context then ask another question based on that.

#19 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 10:41 PM | Reply

n his September complaint, Murphy alleged that he was told to "specifically modify the section on White Supremacy in a manner that made the threat appear less severe, as well as include information on the prominence of violent 'left-wing' groups."

How Trump's demand for manipulated intelligence dovetails with the insurrection on 1/6:

"The lack of a strong posture, intelligence, source development, etc. with regard to the domestic threat... helped get us to the point where we were caught, figuratively, with our pants down on January 6th"

twitter.com

#20 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 10:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#13#14 blame yourself for voting Republican.

#21 | Posted by ichiro at 2021-09-27 10:53 PM | Reply

@#19 ... there is no problem with that. However, pursuant to your original question, once he became president, not a word on acting on it. ...

I do agree that Pres Biden and his predecessors, for what ever reason, have not acted upon companies hiring illegal aliens.

I have commented on that repeatedly in prior comments here on this august site.

I have also asked why we seem to base our economy upon the influx of illegal aliens to do the work that our citizens do not want to do.

So, that leads me to ask, how might you want to resolve this problem? How can we resolve the problem of illegal aliens entering the Country to perform the critically needed labor our agriculture requires?


#22 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:54 PM | Reply

@#19 ... Please don't become a snoofy ...

That.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 10:55 PM | Reply

How can we resolve the problem of illegal aliens entering the Country to perform the critically needed labor our agriculture requires?

Running out of water might fix that.

#24 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-27 10:59 PM | Reply

Hmmm, how did a thread about Trump's mandate to manipulate intelligence and to create a national security risk while doing so become a discussion about Joe Biden's border security policy? Looks to me like a simple bait and switch went down here, which tells me this topic is one conservatives want to deflect away from.

#25 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 11:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"I do agree that Pres Biden and his predecessors, for what ever reason, have not acted upon companies hiring illegal aliens."

I care not of the current president's predecessors. I am more interested in the present, which can be changed than the past which cannot.

#26 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:02 PM | Reply

"So, that leads me to ask, how might you want to resolve this problem? How can we resolve the problem of illegal aliens entering the Country to perform the critically needed labor our agriculture requires?"

Stop them at the border. Increase border patrol rather than decrease it as Biden has.

Isn't it obvious?

#27 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:04 PM | Reply

Stop giving illegal aliens free stuff. Make it clear that if they come into this country they are not welcome. Pretty much the same as all countries on this planet do.

Again, isn't this obvious?

#28 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I have also asked why we seem to base our economy upon the influx of illegal aliens to do the work that our citizens do not want to do."

There is no job that won't be done by American citizens if they are paid a fair wage.

This is a weird contradiction. Some leftwingers insist on higher wages for Americans, but then ask a question as you did.

#29 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:09 PM | Reply

@#26 ... I care not of the current president's predecessors. I am more interested in the present, which can be changed than the past which cannot....

That's a fair assessment.

But it still seems to avoid answering the question.

So let me ask once more...

How would you change companies hiring illegal aliens? It is already illegal. So that aspect does not seem to work.

The Country apparently wants the illegal alien labor to harvest to food we eat.

What is your proposed solution?




#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:09 PM | Reply

"How would you change companies hiring illegal aliens?"

You prosecute those that do.

Jesus Christ. Really?

#31 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:11 PM | Reply

"The Country apparently wants the illegal alien labor to harvest to food we eat.

What is your proposed solution?"

There are a lot of things this country wants.

My solution? Hire only Americans and ignore those who grumble.

#32 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:12 PM | Reply

@#29 ... There is no job that won't be done by American citizens if they are paid a fair wage. ...

I agree.

... This is a weird contradiction. Some leftwingers insist on higher wages for Americans, but then ask a question as you did. ...

I disagree.

I do agree that some on the left fight for higher wages.

However, I also think we all need to focus on the issue. Companies do not want to pay higher wages because the higher wages affect the profits of those who own the company.

#33 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:14 PM | Reply

"I do agree that some on the left fight for higher wages."

Yet they say "let's hire the illegals because they work for less".

This is obviously a conflict. How do you reconcile that?

#34 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:16 PM | Reply

" Companies do not want to pay higher wages because the higher wages affect the profits of those who own the company."

Oh well. C'est la vie/

And this is a problem why?

#35 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:17 PM | Reply

@#31 ... You prosecute those that do. ...

I agree.

But why has not that occurred, even through the illegal alien-antagonistic administration of fmr Pres Trump?

I mean, really, if fmr Pres Trump was not able to do that, then what is the real problem?

As much as your comments seem to want to place the issue on Pres Biden's feet, my view is that there is something more systemic that needs to be addressed.

What is it?


#36 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:19 PM | Reply

@#34 .. Yet they say "let's hire the illegals because they work for less".

I've not seen them say that.

Got a link?

#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:20 PM | Reply

" Companies do not want to pay higher wages because the higher wages affect the profits of those who own the company."

This statement dovetails perfectly what I have always said: The corporations own the government. They feel that their power should dictate judicial prudence.

Sorry. I don't go for that. If the corporations don't like their profit margin, they need to change their business model to one that doesn't involve breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens.

It gets no simpler than that, my friend.

#38 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:21 PM | Reply

@#35 ... And this is a problem why? ...

In case you have not been paying attention...

It is a problem because the companies then hire illegal aliens instead of Americans.

#39 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:22 PM | Reply

@#38 ... It gets no simpler than that, my friend. ...

I do not disagree with your comment #38. What you note is the result of Capitalism, i.e., profits uber alles.

So I will ask again, a question I have asked many times before, how do we fix this?

#40 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:27 PM | Reply

"Got a link?"

You've been asking all the questions and appear perturbed when they are not answered. I've two outstanding ones you haven't answered. I'm not going to be snoofyized.

If you want to play the "got a link" game, do you have a link to support your assertion: " Companies do not want to pay higher wages because the higher wages affect the profits of those who own the company."?

"I mean, really, if fmr Pres Trump was not able to do that, then what is the real problem?"

What does Trump have to do with this? Are you saying the worst president we've ever had is the standard we must meet? Wow. I find that appalling beyond my capability to express.

The problem, as we have been discussing, is poor border control.

#41 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:28 PM | Reply

"So I will ask again, a question I have asked many times before, how do we fix this"

Already been answered.

#42 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:29 PM | Reply

@#42 ... Already been answered. ...

Answered where?

Have a quote or a link to it?

thx.

#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:31 PM | Reply

Oh no, someone's becoming a Snoofy!

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:32 PM | Reply

#43 - Page up. You'll see it.

Listen, I'm really growing weary of jumping through your hoops and you ignoring my questions while you keep insisting yours be answered. This is so snoofyesque.

Do you want to have an honest debate, or do you just want someone to jump through your hoops?

#45 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-27 11:36 PM | Reply

Hijacking a thread for one's own discussion purposes is very Goatman-esque. Just sayin.

#46 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-09-27 11:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Snoofys.
Snoofys everywhere.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-27 11:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#41 ... If you want to play the "got a link" game, do you have a link to support your assertion: " Companies do not want to pay higher wages because the higher wages affect the profits of those who own the company."? ...

I apologize. I did not think that I might need to explain basic economics to you.

Profits = revenue - costs

Wages are costs.

Wow.

... What does Trump have to do with this? ...

Fmr Pres Trump was The Most Anti-Alien person to occupy the Oval Office in a long time.

Yet even he did not dare to address this problem.

... The problem, as we have been discussing, is poor border control. ...

Not really.

The problem is the lure of jobs by companies who seemingly hire illegal aliens because of the low cost of their labor. Even the border patrol has said that.

In order to solve a problem, one must first correctly identify that problem.

#48 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:50 PM | Reply

@#44 ... Oh no, someone's becoming a Snoofy! ...

Please don't let it be me.

:)

#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:52 PM | Reply

@#45 ... Listen, I'm really growing weary of jumping through your hoops and you ignoring my questions while you keep insisting yours be answered. ...

I've been participating on message boards since the, ummm, 1970's? and I've forgotten how may times I've seen that "you're asking too many questions I don't want to answer" comment.

Oh well.

The best of luck with your next alias.

;)

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-09-27 11:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

They found a Woke guy to concentrate on three things that aren't real. That's perfect!

#51 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-09-28 01:41 AM | Reply

#45 | POSTED BY JAKESTER AT 2021-09-27 11:36 PM | FLAG: LIAR WANTS "HONEST DEBATE" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

#52 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-28 01:43 AM | Reply

#51 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

"Woke"

-drink!-

Russian stooge.

#53 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-28 01:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#53 shhh... "crossfire hurricane". snicker.

Why are you trying to convince me you're stupid?

#54 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-09-28 01:55 AM | Reply

Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

(three of these things aren't real)

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-28 01:59 AM | Reply

Listen, I'm really growing weary of jumping through your hoops and you ignoring my questions while you keep insisting yours be answered.

Translation: Listen, I'm really growing weary of you calling me out on my bullshht and forcing me to jump through hoops to avoid answering your simple questions.

This is so snoofyesque.

Translation: Stop calling me out on my bullshht like Snoofy does.

Do you want to have an honest debate, or do you just want someone to jump through your hoops?
#45 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Translation: Either swallow my shht or I'm going to claim to be a victim.

It took me a lot of years here on the DR to learn to speak Goatman.

But I've gotten the hang of it.

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-28 02:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#28 | Posted by jakester

I don't disagree there needs to be a process to put a halt to undocumented immigration. You are also completely wrong about what most other countries do.

However you are not going to stop the immigration. We also NEED those immigrants for many reasons. Have you not noticed an end to unemployment benefits didn't see some huge jump in employment? This country lost a lot of people in the last year and a half and many more retired early (I know a couple dozen personally). We have needed them for decades now.

There are 2 problems though. The first is nobody will engage in meaningful immigration reform - in particular on the right. This needs to happen. The other problem is it is not politically acceptable on the right and sliding into the center to even consider it since these immigrants are virtually all brown people not from Europe. The US has a long history of disparaging the "current" immigrant group and seeking to limit or stop that group. The Irish, the Italian, Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Each and every wave has been discriminated against and marginalized when and where possible. Today it doesn't matter if you are from Latin America, the Middle East, Pakistan, India - it is still the same.

So what "free stuff" do the undocumented get? Nothing from the federal government for sure. Most I have encountered don't take even consider trying to take advantage of the many things legal residents have access to. They keep a low profile and work their asses off. As for what other countries do, care to actually list what other countries do?

#57 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2021-09-28 09:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I think Biden deep down is a good hearted old time liberal. That's great, except for the fact he, like most politicians, loves the power. So he kowtows to the toxic progressives to maintain it. I feel the same way about Harris. I think she is a sensible liberal, but is abandoning her values to placate the rabid side of the left. That's sad.
However, I think Harris has a better chance of returning to true liberalism than Biden. So I pin my hopes on her.

#9 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

HEY, Goat,

Exactly why did you post this obvious "Nooner" material on a thread about Trump Admin ordering manipulation of Homeland Security Intel in order to fit ideological narrative.

You were summarily kicked off this board several times for this exact behavior.

RCADE, you are being played, and everybody here sees it. I'm embarrassed for you.

#58 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-09-28 09:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"We also NEED those immigrants for many reasons."

I have no problem with immigration. I've said that many times. But again, I am against illegal immigrations.

There are people in Europe and Asia who want to emigrate to the USA. The do it the right and legal way. They study for the requisite knowledge needed. They do the right paper work. They wait however long they have to.

It's a slap in the face to those people that people can illegally get "head of the line" privileges, simply because they are brazen enough to enter illegally.

Besides, the ones who enter illegally obviously have zero regard for US law and are literally criminals. If they have no regard for US law, why should we think they any regard for the rest of our laws?

Sorry. I don't want more criminals in the country. I especially don't want to give them better treatment than we give some our own homeless. Fix the homeless problem in the US, then we can worry about fixing the destitute problem on the rest of the planet.

#59 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-28 11:48 AM | Reply

Trump was like an old sick man visiting your home.
While here, he managed to crap all over the floor.

Not only does it take time to clean up the aftermath... but people will talk about his episode which "liberals" like goat would like everyone to forget.

#60 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2021-09-28 12:49 PM | Reply

#2 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Only took you the second post to turn a Trump thread into a Biden bashing thread.

Impressive.

#61 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 09:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It gets no simpler than that, my friend.
#38 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

So are we living in a plutocracy or a corporatocracy?

#62 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-09-28 09:34 PM | Reply

Impressive.

""

Thank you

#63 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-28 09:42 PM | Reply

#58 - "RCADE, you are being played, and everybody here sees it. I'm embarrassed for you."

You mean like you and other progressives play him by blatantly violating his moderation rules like:

" Don't engage in trolling."

or

"User comments will be deleted if they contain... personal attacks..."

Get off your self-righteous high horse, oldwhiskeysour. When you get your side (including yourself) to obey the moderation rules instead of "playing" the sysop by blatantly breaking them, get back with us. OK? Spare us your selective outrage, dude.

#64 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-28 11:10 PM | Reply

STFU GOAT.

Nobody here respects you.

How bout you KMA.

#65 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2021-09-29 09:08 AM | Reply

The angry drunk puts his whiskey bottle back on the night stand, pens some hate, and rolls back over in bed.

#66 | Posted by jakester at 2021-09-29 09:10 AM | Reply

"However you are not going to stop the [undocumented] immigration. We also NEED those [undocumented] immigrants for many reasons. Have you not noticed an end to unemployment benefits didn't see some huge jump in employment? This country lost a lot of people in the last year and a half and many more retired early (I know a couple dozen personally). We have needed them for decades now."

Sorry, but that's a completely asinine statement. In any other context, everyone here would be gloating about how great it is that it's a employee's job market, but here you're effectively saying that's a problem that needs to be preemptively fixed with a huge influx of cheap and desperate labor.

#67 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-29 02:45 PM | Reply

"Hmmm, how did a thread about Trump's mandate to manipulate intelligence and to create a national security risk while doing so become a discussion about Joe Biden's border security policy? Looks to me like a simple bait and switch went down here, which tells me this topic is one conservatives want to deflect away from."

That's probably true, but it's also consistent with how almost every unrelated thread also morphed into being about Trump the last 5 years. I'm sure I'll get flames from both sides for this, but it shows that Biden lives in their heads in the same way Trump lives in #RetortRegulars' heads.

At least both topics are about potential national security risks.

#68 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-29 02:51 PM | Reply

it shows that Biden lives in their heads in the same way Trump lives in #RetortRegulars' heads.

#68 | Posted by sentinel

Which shows how stupid trump supporters are. A totally regular president terrifies them while they see no problem with a moron criminal fascist con man president.

#69 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 03:05 PM | Reply

The angry drunk puts his whiskey bottle back on the night stand, pens some hate, and rolls back over in bed.

#66 | Posted by jakester

The cowardly loser runs away and makes a new username.

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 03:06 PM | Reply

obey the moderation rules instead of "playing" the sysop by blatantly breaking them, get back with us. OK? Spare us your selective outrage, dude.

#64 | Posted by jakester

What do the moderation rules say about creating new usernames after you've been banned?

#71 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 03:07 PM | Reply

"The problem is the lure of jobs by companies who seemingly hire illegal aliens because of the low cost of their labor. Even the border patrol has said that."

I think you meant to write "A problem".

#72 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-29 03:12 PM | Reply

"I think you meant to write "A problem"."

He probably meant "root of the problem".

Ultimately, if you arrest and deport an illegal, you've simply put out another "job available" sign. Conversely, if you start frog-marching the hirers, the reason for immigration dries up.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-29 03:23 PM | Reply

Bellringer, your posts are as
predictable, valueable, and
relevant to the topic as
hastily written Twitter Tweets
from an office temp working at
Breitbart, News Max, or Fox (Faux)
News...

(i.e. purely partisan hackery)...

Step your game up Douche! :D

#74 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-09-29 03:28 PM | Reply

Stop giving illegal aliens free stuff.

Martians are coming to America for free stuff?

Is that why we're creating a space force?

#75 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-29 04:07 PM | Reply

"Ultimately, if you arrest and deport an illegal, you've simply put out another "job available" sign. Conversely, if you start frog-marching the hirers, the reason for immigration dries up."

We should be doing both. Otherwise you're encouraging one activity or the other.

Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to prove hirers like Danni knew the true immigration status of the people they hired than it is when catching someone in the act of trespassing.

And when you have whole CARAVANS organized with the intention of crossing the border illegally, it's much bigger than just dealing with "an" illegal. This just adds to and exacerbates the problems of our immigration system, unless you're one of those people who subscribes to the idea of "fixing" a system by breaking it completely, like some do with the national debt.

#76 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-29 06:05 PM | Reply

We should be doing both. Otherwise you're encouraging one activity or the other.

#76 | Posted by sentinel

Funny I never hear trumpers chant "jail the white business owners!" Just "Build the wall!"

They weren't horny to put white business owners kids in cages.

They seem to blame it entirely on brown people and democrats.

#77 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-29 06:35 PM | Reply

"There are 2 problems though. The first is nobody will engage in meaningful immigration reform - in particular on the right. This needs to happen. The other problem is it is not politically acceptable on the right and sliding into the center to even consider it since these immigrants are virtually all brown people not from Europe."

The main objection I've seen on "the right" is that we already did the type of "meaningful" immigration reform you're alluding to in 1986, and it didn't work. It enticed even more illegal immigrants to come. Until the advocates of "meaningful" immigration reform acknowledge this and come up with a solution to ensure it won't be a repeat of that, it begs the question whether they really care about meaningful immigration reform.

#78 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-29 07:32 PM | Reply

What actually happened with immigration reform:

Marco Rubio and the Gang of Eight were tied to the rails and got run over by the Trump Train. Ask GoNoles, he remembers.

It was a voter outreach program by racist xenophobe Deplorables, to the racist xenophobe Deplorables, who have since come to define the GOP.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-29 07:39 PM | Reply

Where in the constitution does it grant the federal government the right to deny me the ability to hire anyone I want?

#80 | Posted by bored at 2021-09-29 08:25 PM | Reply

Nobody here admits to the fact that after the border was militarized in the 60's the natural pattern of workers coming to the U.S. to work and returning to Mexico was broken and led to undocumented folk staying instead of returning. You built that, Republicants.

#81 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-29 10:36 PM | Reply

Most Democrats will soon become apathetic and emotionally disengaged. The Democrat elite are weak and want to be "nice." Merican democracy won't survive another 4 years. A got like DeSantis will have no boundaries. Merica is about to become a Republican country only.

#82 | Posted by iloveyou at 2021-09-30 02:21 AM | Reply

Democrats keep fighting a gun fight with a knife and losing. They just don't get it.

#83 | Posted by iloveyou at 2021-09-30 02:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

how did a thread about Trump's mandate to manipulate intelligence and to create a national security risk while doing so become a discussion about Joe Biden's border security policy?

Trolls.

It took two posts for Trumpers to derail the conversation from their fascist goals to attacking Biden based on their conspiracy theories.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 03:01 AM | Reply

Border security policy is one of the topics in the headline.

#85 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 04:00 AM | Reply

#85 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

I get it Trumper.

You're full of excuses for fascism.

Thanks to white nationalists.

The swastika is becoming a popular symbol again.

You must be elated.

You going to admit you're an antivaxxer?

Or you still pretending?

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 04:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#86, it appears that the factual statement I wrote triggered you into a delusional and angry state.

#87 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 04:15 AM | Reply

"Nobody here admits to the fact that after the border was militarized in the 60's the natural pattern of workers coming to the U.S. to work and returning to Mexico was broken and led to undocumented folk staying instead of returning."

Tell us again how you're not for open borders...

#88 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 04:24 AM | Reply

the factual statement I wrote triggered you

**Yawn**

All you're doing is continuing your xenophobic diatribe.

The article is actually about the Trump administration demanding for the manipulation of information.

But xenophobia is a subject Trumpers prefer.

Especially those with a proclivity for Swastikas.

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 04:54 AM | Reply

Tell us again how you're not for open borders...
#88 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

I'm fully for allowing humans to live where they want to.

If xenophobes, like you, would stop demonizing people and allow them to legally and freely come to this nation, they would.

That would require their employers to pay them legal wages, they would pay taxes on their labor and be productive members of society.

But. You'd prefer to complain and fearmonger immigrants.

Trumpers love to spread hate.

Ring those bells of xenophobia, loud and clear.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 05:03 AM | Reply

"**Yawn**"

Poor thing. You must be drained from the emotional state you worked yourself into.

I will say this: I respect Clownshack for being honest about his support for open borders and unfettered immigration, even though I disagree with it and believe it's impractical.

#91 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 10:37 AM | Reply

#91

You don't know what about immigration you're disagreeing with or why you've been programmed to hate immigrants.

But. You do love the Swastika, and Trump.

You got BruceBanner, a black man, kicked off the DR.

I bet you saluted your Swastika Flag that day.

#92 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#92, you poor thing. I know you're obsessed with my flag pole, but you can't have it.

As I said, I respected you when you were honest about your own positions, but when you're outright lying about mine, which is what you're doing.

Go sit in the corner an play with the black bassoon.

#93 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 04:15 PM | Reply

*not when

#94 | Posted by sentinel at 2021-09-30 04:16 PM | Reply

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