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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, September 30, 2021

Mike Schultz: Do everything you can to support the Freedom to Vote Act. The problem: Our former president and many others have falsely claimed the 2020 election was stolen. Many states have used this false claim to justify enacting various laws making it harder for some people to vote. Recently, partisan state legislatures have enacted recounts of the 2020 election to further erode pubic confidence in the election process. The Solution: The Freedom to Vote Act (FTVA) is being discussed in the Senate. Some of the 11 separate things it does includes: Making election day a holiday, Ending gerrymandering, It combats anti-voting laws working their way through state legislatures, and for those concerned with voter security it insures the use of paper ballots and implements a national voter ID standard.

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I want to hear any conservatives give me an analysis of why (with links or citations) they would not support this, or why they are willing to allow their representatives to not support this.

And I guess "because conservatives will lose if we make voting easier and more fair" is a valid reason, but it kinda makes you a crappy person and crappy citizen (because you are obviously putting party and your ideology over doing the right thing for the country).

#1 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2021-09-30 12:25 PM | Reply

I suspect Schultz is preaching to the choir. Of course all liberals and people of integrity support the Freedom To Vote act. Seems like only Republicans who are getting walloped by changing demographics are opposed to it.

#2 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-30 12:25 PM | Reply

I want to hear any conservatives give me an analysis of why (with links or citations) they would not support this
#1 | Posted by gtbritishskull

Because they think the founders wanted an unfair democracy that gave an advantage to their side.

#3 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 12:28 PM | Reply

Stopping the fascist insurrection called the GOP is the most important thing for the country. This should have been the only bill dems cared about. Taxation and childcare is peanuts compared to saving our democracy.

But we are led by moderate dems who are in delusional denial about what the GOP has become, unwilling to defend our country from the fascists or take steps to avoid the coming civil war. Too worried about getting re elected to save our democracy from domestic enemies.

This is the calm before the storm. The last few years of democracy unless dems save it.

Repubs will forever be the party that destroyed democracy.
But dems will forever be the party that let them do it, even when we had the power to stop them.

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Maybe American democracy cannot survive white people being deprived of their self-assumed right to have the majority voice in our nation.

#5 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-09-30 12:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Because they think the founders wanted an unfair democracy"

Well, they did. Only white male landowners could vote.

#6 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-30 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

interactive.aljazeera.com

#7 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-09-30 01:01 PM | Reply

Maybe American democracy cannot survive white people being deprived of their self-assumed right to have the majority voice in our nation.
#5 | POSTED BY MODER8

^
This is very much the existential crisis America finds itself in.

David Frum, who is a Republican white man and who coined the term "Axis of Evil" as a speechwriter for George W. Bush, may have said it best:

"Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy."
David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The fact that we need this in this country is pathetic. Voting in the United States should be a sacred right. A free and fair election should be a foregone conclusion. Right-wing assaults on voting show why they associate themselves with unmitigated losers.

#9 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2021-09-30 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rs will never support anything that eliminates gerrymandering. That's their only hope of winning may elections.

#10 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2021-09-30 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wonder how long it will take the second oldest democracy to become the oldest.

#11 | Posted by bored at 2021-09-30 01:30 PM | Reply

For 4 years all we heard about was that Trump was breaking norms.

Yet here we have Democrats at the federal level attempting to usurp the states in national elections. This is breaking norms at an unprecedented level.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 02:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

For 4 years all we heard about was that Trump was breaking norms.

Yet here we have Democrats at the federal level attempting to usurp the states in national elections. This is breaking norms at an unprecedented level.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger

Wahhh its not fair for the federal government to stop fascist state leaders from replacing democracy with fascism!

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 02:34 PM | Reply

#13. The history of the US didn't start in 2016.

Every red state that passed new voter laws expanded access from where it was in 16 and 18.

Georgia is less restrictive than Biden's home state of Delaware.

Please pick up a history book.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 02:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#13. The history of the US didn't start in 2016.

Every red state that passed new voter laws expanded access from where it was in 16 and 18.

Georgia is less restrictive than Biden's home state of Delaware.

Please pick up a history book.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger

You first. Why was the voting right act passed and what did all the red states do as soon as the supreme court repealed it?

#15 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 02:58 PM | Reply

... the federal level attempting to usurp the states in national elections ...

Usurp is a strange word choice in this context.

Article I Section 4 Clause 1: "The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators." (emphasis added)

constitution.congress.gov

#16 | Posted by et_al at 2021-09-30 03:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15 It became obsolete. Jim Crow is long over. SCOTUS repealed it because it became discriminatory against southern states as they modernized.

Further, these new laws in red states are a response to the massive temporary changes in voting due to COVID in 2020.

In reality, the only real criticism the left has is over voter ID requirements but they are so popular (and accomodating when looking at all of the ways a state like Georgia allows for one to prove their ID), even among blacks, that some of the loudest critics quietly backed off when challenged on the issue.

#17 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 03:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives

What does it say about holding elections for POTUS?

That's what this newly proposed law seems to be targeting.

#18 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 03:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Jim Crow is long over."

So then why are blacks still so much worse off than whites?

Laziness?

You yell us.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 03:13 PM | Reply

"Because they think the founders wanted an unfair democracy that gave an advantage to their side."

But, in fact, they did.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2021-09-30 03:16 PM | Reply

You yell us.

#19 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You first - go right ahead. Show causation while making your case.

#21 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 03:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#16

Presidential elections are not isolated events but are held in conjunction with elections for representatives and senators i.e. national elections.

The bill targets national elections.

www.lwv.org

#22 | Posted by et_al at 2021-09-30 03:24 PM | Reply

Jim Crow is long over. SCOTUS repealed it because it became discriminatory against southern states as they modernized.

How so?

#23 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 03:25 PM | Reply

Systemic racism is the cause.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 03:26 PM | Reply

"Show causation while making your case."

What does causation look like?
What would get you to say "yes, that's a cause."
Feel free to use examples from our racist past.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 03:28 PM | Reply

these new laws in red states are a response to the massive temporary changes in voting due to COVID in 2020.

That's the worst excuse yet.

Mail in voting wasn't temporary.

Until Republicans lost.

Then it was fraught with fraud.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 03:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#15 It became obsolete. Jim Crow is long over. SCOTUS repealed it because it became discriminatory against southern states as they modernized.

#17 | Posted by BellRinger

Hah. Supreme court SAID it was obsolete. They said racism was over. So what did all the racist states do as soon as the law was repealled?

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 03:30 PM | Reply

So what did all the racist states do as soon as the law was repealled?

Made voting more accessible compared with where they were in 2018. Any other questions?

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 03:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Do you realize that this crap requires non-profits to disclose their donors?

Any idea why SCOTUS ruled against the NAACP being forced to disclose their donors during Jim Crow?

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 03:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Donors should be known for an entity that does not pay tax. Don't you want to know what is grass-roots and what is a corporate-fake?

#30 | Posted by Brennnn at 2021-09-30 03:46 PM | Reply

Donors should be known for an entity that does not pay tax. Don't you want to know what is grass-roots and what is a corporate-fake?

#30 | POSTED BY BRENNNN AT 2021-09-30 03:46 PM

Do you understand why SCOTUS ruled the NAACP didn't have to reveal its donors during Jim Crow in Alabama?

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 04:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Do you realize that this crap requires non-profits to disclose their donors?"

I think we have not only a right but an obligation to know who is paying for our politicians.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 04:25 PM | Reply

#32 Answer #31

#33 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-09-30 04:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You said Jim Crow is over, so why would that apply here?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 04:35 PM | Reply

So what did all the racist states do as soon as the law was repealled?

Made voting more accessible compared with where they were in 2018. Any other questions?

#28 | Posted by BellRinger

By what metric? By closing polling places in minority districts? By requiring voter IDs for no reason?

www.theguardian.com

"Immediately after the decision, Republican lawmakers in Texas and North Carolina " two states previously covered by the law " moved to enact new voter ID laws and other restrictions. A federal court would later strike down the North Carolina law, writing it was designed to target African Americans "with almost surgical precision"."

Yup racism is obviously over and the act wasn't needed any more.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-09-30 04:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

GT,

"I want to hear any conservatives give me an analysis of why (with links or citations) they would not support this"

It has come good points I can easily support.

But it makes mail-in ballots a national standard.

I'm against that part.

I don't need to include links to have an opinion.

#36 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-09-30 09:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I want to hear any conservatives give me an analysis of why (with links or citations) they would not support this, or why they are willing to allow their representatives to not support this.
#1 | POSTED BY GTBRITISHSKULL "

Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy. If people don't have an opinion because they are too disconnected to do any research prior to voting and too lazy to vote unless it is pushing a button on a smart phone, we are better off with them not participating.

The human condition is one where the dumb are easy to manipulate and outsized influence is given to those that control the media or billionaire class interests that can afford to more easily spread their message and promises of free stuff to get people to support their own agenda.

I want voting restricted - raise the age to 21 or 25 other than military. Cut off those currently on public assistance. You should not get a say in the system when all you do it take from it.

#37 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 09:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy.

Good thing it's a Republic.

#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-09-30 10:08 PM | Reply

#37 is straight out of the fascist handbook.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 10:09 PM | Reply

"You should not get a say in the system when all you do it take from it."

All the military does is take from the system.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 10:12 PM | Reply

"But it makes mail-in ballots a national standard.
I'm against that part."

They really got to you, BillJohnson.
It doesn't occur to you that you were fine with this your entire life until last year?

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 10:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't need to include links to have an opinion."

You prefer to remain ignorant and you're boastful about it.

You're a Trumper, through and through.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 10:24 PM | Reply

"I don't need to include links to have an opinion."

It's probably helps your credibility that you don't.
Because any links you find to support your opinion are going to come from highly questionable sources.
You're better off hoping people just give you the benefit of the doubt.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it" -- Mark -----

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 10:28 PM | Reply

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it" -- Mark -----

BillJohnson crossed that bridge already.

#44 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-09-30 10:32 PM | Reply

"All the military does is take from the system.
#40 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

In exchange, they PROVIDE security for the nation. So, they do not only take.

#45 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 10:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

By that token, everybody gives something back.

For example, minorities give you a way to further your fascist agenda with fears of White Replacement.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:14 PM | Reply

"For example, minorities give you a way to further your fascist agenda with fears of White Replacement.
#46 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

You are as pasty white as the fresh driven snow - yet, I would rather deport you to Mexico and take the first legal immigrant I can in your place. I have no problem with minorities - I have a problem with sloth and envy, the combination of which forms the core of the Democrat party belief system.

#47 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 11:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I have a problem with sloth and envy, the combination of which forms the core of the Democrat party belief system."

Here's the Democratic Party Platform. Show us the sloth and envy. Thanks.
democrats.org

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:48 PM | Reply

"You are as pasty white as the fresh driven snow - yet, I would rather deport you to Mexico"

Right. For not thinking like you. Because you're a fascist.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:48 PM | Reply

"Right. For not thinking like you. Because you're a fascist.
#49 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Nothing to do with what you think - has to do with your actions. You could be a red diaper commie for all I care as long as you actually go to work and contribute to society. You don't. Worse, you try to get policies enacted to further destroy the social fabric. So yeah, I would trade you for a hard working minority any day of the week.

#50 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 11:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Nothing to do with what you think - has to do with your actions."

People's actions are the result of what they think.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:54 PM | Reply

"Worse, you try to get policies enacted to further destroy the social fabric."

You mean like White Replacement?

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:54 PM | Reply

"Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy."

Are they allowed to pay taxes?

#53 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-09-30 11:54 PM | Reply

"People's actions are the result of what they think.
#51 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

No - that is not necessarily the case. If based on thoughts alone, Rein would be locked up as a pedo already. But, no proof he has acted on it. So, he may be sicko, but he can remain out of prison for the time being.

#54 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 11:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So yeah, I would trade you for a hard working minority any day of the week."

You'd have to own people to trade them. So, now you are coming out in favor of chattel slavery too.

I think you would have loved having slaves. You seem like you would relish being able to rape without repercussion.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:56 PM | Reply

"Are they allowed to pay taxes?
#53 | POSTED BY DANFORTH"

Most of them don't - again, a core constituent of the Democrat party.

#56 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 11:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Most of them don't."

I guess that sales tax I paid buying a Coke wasn't really a tax. Neither was this 9-1-1 fee on my cell phone bill. Neither was that fuel tax when I filled up my car.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-09-30 11:58 PM | Reply

"I think you would have loved having slaves.
#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

No, I despise the Biden and Kamala Harris family history as slave owners. No one should own anyone - including a pregnant woman owning a fetus inside or her. We should just provide enough shame and excommunication from society that you get the hint and either reform your ways or move. Nothing to do with color, religion, etc - everything to do with your envy and sloth.

#58 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-09-30 11:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"No, I despise the Biden and Kamala Harris family history as slave owners."

You're just envious. Typical for your kind. You want the #MAGA life but that opportunity was taken from you by a Federal Government that got too big.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:01 AM | Reply

"I guess that sales tax I paid buying a Coke wasn't really a tax."

State tax, not federal.

"Neither was this 9-1-1 fee on my cell phone bill."

You don't pay a dime for your Obama-phone.

"Neither was that fuel tax when I filled up my car.
#57 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

LOL, you don't have a car.

And no - those shouldn't count as - at best - you are just covering the cost of the service you are using. People should vote based on income taxes paid over your lifetime - if that exceeds the value of services taken - you lose your right to vote. And no, paying capital gains taxes should not count.

#60 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 12:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"No, I despise the Biden and Kamala Harris family history as slave owners."
You're just envious.
#59 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Sounds like you are just another angry Dems still smarting of the Republicans taking your slaves away. That is why you switched from black to brown imports to try to skirt the law.

#61 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 12:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"State tax, not federal."

What does that change?

"People should vote based on income taxes paid over your lifetime"

So then Trump wouldn't be voting. Because he's so smart he doesn't have to pay income tax.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:15 AM | Reply

"That is why you switched from black to brown imports to try to skirt the law."

I thought I didn't have a job. But now I'm in the import-export business.

USA #1 in human trafficking, by the way. Something like 400,000 sex slaves in America, most of them children. #MAGA

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:17 AM | Reply

"And no - those shouldn't count as - at best - you are just covering the cost of the service you are using."

Military doesn't come close to covering the cost of the services they are using, and you think they deserve to vote.

You want there to be first class citizens, and second class citizens. That's fascism in a nutshell.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:20 AM | Reply

I'd love to know when America went off the rails, according to Skeptical.

Was it when we ended slavery?
Was it when we let women vote?
Was it Civil Rights?

At some point, America became a country that stands for pretty much everything he hates. Just wondering what got America to be so awful, and when.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:35 AM | Reply

"At some point, America became a country that stands for pretty much everything he hates. Just wondering what got America to be so awful, and when.
#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

With the passage of NAFTA and the Dems turning into Globalists. That started the spiral. With the Dems betraying the working class, they needed a new group of people dumb enough to not understand how they sold out their former supporters - so they turned to racism and identity politics to divide the country. A byproduct of this was normalizing homeless, drug addicts, criminals, and those too lazy to ever work as the poorer and more reliant you are on government handouts, the more loyal you are to the Democrat party.

#66 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 01:05 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The fact that we need this in this country is pathetic. Voting in the United States should be a sacred right. A free and fair election should be a foregone conclusion. Right-wing assaults on voting show why they associate themselves with unmitigated losers."

It's a phenomenon being seen around the world. Billionaires can control the media so don't really expect the media to be on the side of democracy. They are on the side of profits leaving millions of us uninformed about the things we really need to know about. Think about this, one of the wkorst crises in America is the cost of prescription drugs but when you watch the major news programs you will see the same pharmaceutical company ads from the companies who spend many millions lobbying Congress, contributing to camkpaigns, etc. and who care much more for profits than they do patients.

#67 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-01 08:48 AM | Reply

"No, I despise the Biden and Kamala Harris family history as slave owners. No one should own anyone - including a pregnant woman owning a fetus inside or her. "

This is the new hateful tactic from the right, blame today's politicians for the sins that some of their ancestors, who they never met, committed a very long time ago. It's pathetic and ridiculous and only a dishonest person would even try to use such a dishonest tactic. Judge today's politicians by the things they did not the things their ancestors did.

#68 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-01 08:52 AM | Reply

And Skeptical your reference to pregnant women is disgusting, women own their own bodies whether you like it or not. Go F yourself Skeptical, you are a sickening piece of filth. In Texas they passed a law you probably like, it prohibits abortions for women who are raped, who are pregnant through ------, etc. it is sick and so are all the a******s that support it. Not to mention that anyone who assists them in getting an abortion, even driving them to the clinic, can be sued by anyone from any state even if they have absolutely no relationship to the woman involved, it's sort of like the Nazis turning in their neighbors. It's disgusting and should be ruled unconstitutional but unfortunately McConnell stole one of Obama's appointments and slipped in another right wing crazy so the court is now just an arm of the Republican Party.

#69 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-01 09:00 AM | Reply

"women own their own bodies whether you like it or not.
#69 | POSTED BY DANNI"

They do - but they don't own a being inside of them. If some man was stupid enough to stick his penis inside you, do you have a say over his life? You have to use such stupid arguments to justify your position it is laughable. You need to define life as requiring descent down the ------- canal or you are forced to admit you are murdering an individual when you have an abortion. In 100 years time, your mass murder abortion clinic will seen the same as Hitler and Stalin - you willfully slaughtered millions with a disproportionate amount being black and brown.

#70 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 10:28 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#68. That might be the most extreme case of projection I've ever seen.

#71 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-01 11:14 AM | Reply

"They do - but they don't own a being inside of them."

That depends. Did you rape her?

Then it belongs to her and the decision is all hers.

That "being" has no inherent "right" to live.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-01 12:32 PM | Reply

"With the passage of NAFTA and the Dems turning into Globalists."

Let me guess: You support Right To Work.

Who'd you vote for in 1996, and what was their position on NAFTA, GATT, and WIPO?

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:37 PM | Reply

"They do - but they don't own a being inside of them"

Sure, but they can remove said being with prejudice.

Otherwise, you're saying if your gym teacher is raping you, you can't make him take it out.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-01 12:38 PM | Reply

Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy. If people don't have an opinion because they are too disconnected to do any research prior to voting and too lazy to vote unless it is pushing a button on a smart phone, we are better off with them not participating.

The human condition is one where the dumb are easy to manipulate and outsized influence is given to those that control the media or billionaire class interests that can afford to more easily spread their message and promises of free stuff to get people to support their own agenda.

I want voting restricted - raise the age to 21 or 25 other than military. Cut off those currently on public assistance. You should not get a say in the system when all you do it take from it.

#37 | Posted by Skeptical

Go further - you should not get a say in the system if you're going to die soon. Why should you get to set policies for a world where you wont exist? So anyone over 60 can't vote.

Also anyone who doesn't believe mankind needs to plan for the future shouldnt be able to vote. So anyone who thinks a religious messiah is going to come back soon and solve everything so we don't need to worry about our problems - they can't vote either.

"Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy. " Good point. So fox news, oann, and breitbart viewers should be excluded too.

#75 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But it makes mail-in ballots a national standard.

I'm against that part.

I don't need to include links to have an opinion.

#36 | Posted by BillJohnson

Mail in ballots have never been shown to be fraudulent in any way. You simply hate them because they take away one of your biggest election weapons - long lines in black districts and short lines in white ones.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 12:45 PM | Reply

"Allowing uniformed people to vote is not good for Democracy."

What a qtard. We are not a democracy.

And it should the exact opposite. If you don't serve in the military of your country then you should not be considered a Citizen eligible to vote ... yet.

As they exited, Benjamin Franklin was asked what kind of government do we have? "A Republic," he replied, "if you can keep it."Apr 15, 2021

#77 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-01 01:00 PM | Reply

LOL

the article I grabbed that from was in 2021

The quote was from September 17, 1787

#78 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-01 01:01 PM | Reply

"Most of them don't (pay taxes)."

That's a lie. All of them do.

#79 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-01 01:33 PM | Reply

"People should vote based on income taxes paid over your lifetime - if that exceeds the value of services taken - you lose your right to vote. And no, paying capital gains taxes should not count."

In other words, you don't believe in the ideals of America. You'd prefer a Plutocracy to our Republic.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-01 01:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"They do - but they don't own a being inside of them. If some man was stupid enough to stick his penis inside you, do you have a say over his life? You have to use such stupid arguments to justify your position it is laughable."

Take that idiotic argument to the Supreme Court who has ruled that til the end of the 2nd trimester that fetus is not a person. Will I get my opinion from a moron like you or from the SC? Your opinion is based on an assumption that if we outlawed abortions then we would not have abortions with is nonsense. There have always been abortions and for the most part legally, it wasn't until white folks noticed the drop in the white birth rates that they decided abortion was wrong (for white women) even though the same racists couldn't care less how many abortions black women had. The anti-abortion movement is directly tied to the White Nationalist moveent. Next, those same haters will be coming after birth control so that those mean white women will start having enough babies to maintain white superiority in America.

#81 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-01 02:05 PM | Reply

I don't need to include links to have an opinion.
#36 | Posted by BillJohnson

You posted on this many times and don't include links because you've never been able to find a valid one that actually supports your view. You can have your opinion, just acknowledge it is uninformed and not based in reality.

#82 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-10-01 03:43 PM | Reply

I don't need to include links to have an opinion.
#36 | Posted by BillJohnson

You posted on this many times and don't include links because you've never been able to find a valid one that actually supports your view. You can have your opinion, just acknowledge it is uninformed and not based in reality.

#82 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

You're talking to a guy who says christians dont need to listen to what jesus said in the bible about taking care of the sick, poor, and immigrants, and they can just IMAGINE that he secretly was anti gay and anti abortion and focus on that instead.

All he has to support his positions are the fantasies from his rotting brain.

#83 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 03:58 PM | Reply

Speak,

"Mail in ballots have never been shown to be fraudulent in any way."

You are presuming that is the crux of my objection.

This is my only response to you in this thread.

#84 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-10-01 05:47 PM | Reply

Johnny,

"You posted on this many times and don't include links because you've never been able to find a valid one"

Just like I've said before, I am my own authority on this topic.

Mail-in ballots as I have read being implemented are a sham.

Just ask Danni.

She convinced me mail-in ballots are designed to benefit one party.

#85 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-10-01 05:50 PM | Reply

This is my only response to you in this thread.

#84 | Posted by BillJohnson

Why? Are you your positions and perspectives so weak that you can't defend them against scrutiny?

Your objections to mail in ballots come from the same place as every other thought in your head - brainwashing.

#86 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 05:51 PM | Reply

Mail-in ballots as I have read being implemented are a sham.

Just ask Danni.

She convinced me mail-in ballots are designed to benefit one party.

#85 | Posted by BillJohnson a

So is voter ID. Are you opposed to that too?

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 05:53 PM | Reply

"I am my own authority on this topic."

And what does your research tell you when you can't find any examples of your fears?

#88 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-01 06:03 PM | Reply

"Take that idiotic argument to the Supreme Court who has ruled that til the end of the 2nd trimester that fetus is not a person."

I have a strong suspicions that your championing of the Supreme Court would end the minute they ruled different on Rowe v Wade.

But - let's play. For you, what should be the end date for when a woman can have an abortion? I will grant you all the exemptions - rape, ------, eugenics (aborting retarded kids). Outside of those - when is the cut off date?

"it wasn't until white folks noticed the drop in the white birth rates that they decided abortion was wrong (for white women) even though the same racists couldn't care less how many abortions black women had."

This is utter nonsense for a majority of the population - but a very influential part of the abortion lobby did actively promote minority abortions and still does to this day by putting clinics in poor black and brown communities.

#89 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 07:48 PM | Reply

I have a strong suspicions that your championing of the Supreme Court would end the minute they ruled different on Rowe v Wade.

#89 | Posted by Skeptical

Anyone's ethical's championing of the supreme court ended the day mcconnell stole a seat for trump. The supreme court used to have legitimacy but like everything else, you fascists ruined it and now it's far to the right of the american people. It's not enough that the senate gives empty farmland more power than populated cities. It's not enough the electoral college lets you win even when you lose. It's not enough to gerrymander your districts to pick your voters instead of them picking you. It's not enough that you're rewriting state laws so you can overturn elections you don't win. It's not enough that your fascist cult is taking over leadership roles in local election system all across the country to sabotage democracy from the ground up. It's not enough to slow down the mail to stop mail in ballots and close polling places during a pandemic to make minorities wait in line and get sick. It's not enough to destroy faith in our elections themselves by crying fraud when it's been proven over and over that there was none.

Nope you need to steal supreme court seats too.

#90 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 08:54 PM | Reply

Jesus christ if you put a tenth of the effort into helping the american people as you put into finding new ways to steal power from them, our country would be paradise.

#91 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-01 08:56 PM | Reply

"Anyone's ethical's championing of the supreme court ended the day mcconnell stole a seat for trump. "
#90 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY"

Better tell Danni - seems she missed the memo

#92 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 09:40 PM | Reply

The ruling Danni referred to was before McConnell's steal, so you missed the chronology and the point.

#93 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-01 11:11 PM | Reply

"The ruling Danni referred to was before McConnell's steal, so you missed the chronology and the point.
#93 | POSTED BY YAV"

Given that Danni is too stupid or chicken to answer - why don't you give it a go.

At what point does a fetus become an individual being such that killing it should be considered murder?

#94 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-01 11:36 PM | Reply

#94 - I have an opinion, but that's not relevant. What's relevant is that the Supreme Court ruled and the law has been clear since 1973, which is what Danni said.

Whether a woman gets an abortion or not should be between her and her doctor. End of discussion. My opinion doesn't' matter and shouldn't matter. I'm not ever going to be put in the position of having to make that choice.

#95 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-02 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Whether a woman gets an abortion or not should be between her and her doctor.
#95 | POSTED BY YAV"

Let's say it is 5 seconds before she was to give birth naturally - so at 9 months. Still a-okay for you? I didn't expect you to answer because you are a ----------- like Danni.

#96 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 09:48 PM | Reply

Let's say it is 5 seconds before she was to give birth naturally - so at 9 months. Still a-okay for you?

I'd force her to do a handstand and do the splits.

Then I'd wait till the baby's head popped out and hit it with a baseball bat.

Like playing Tee Ball.

Home run!!

#97 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-02 09:55 PM | Reply

"Let's say it is 5 seconds before she was to give birth naturally - so at 9 months. Still a-okay for you? "

Under Roe, states can prohibit elective late-term abortion.
Do you really not know that, or do you just enjoy being a drama queen?

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:03 PM | Reply

"At what point does a fetus become an individual being such that killing it should be considered murder?"

After it's born.

Even The Bible is pretty clear on that.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:04 PM | Reply

"but a very influential part of the abortion lobby did actively promote minority abortions and still does to this day by putting clinics in poor black and brown communities."

Supply and Demand.
The abortion rate for black women is almost five times that for white women.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:08 PM | Reply

"Under Roe, states can prohibit elective late-term abortion.
#98 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Okay - so what is the logic behind it? At some point, the fetus becomes an individual with the right not the be murdered. What is that point?

#101 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 10:10 PM | Reply

"Okay - so what is the logic behind it?"

The logic is a balance of the state's duty to protect life against a person's right to control their own body.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:19 PM | Reply

"The logic is a balance of the state's duty to protect life against a person's right to control their own body.
#102 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

And at what point in fetal development does that flip from woman's right to murder? What is the biological change that would justify the change in right to abort to murder?

#103 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 10:21 PM | Reply

"And at what point in fetal development does that flip from woman's right to murder?"

Not before the end of first trimester, and not after the beginning of the third trimester.

Also, an illegal late-term abortion isn't considered murder. To murder someone, they have to be a person, and to be a person, they have to be born.

But I'm sure you know that, and are just trolling and being a drama queen.

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:24 PM | Reply

"Children are occasionally born with such serious disorders that termination of life is regarded as the best option."
www.government.nl

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:29 PM | Reply

"Not before the end of first trimester, and not after the beginning of the third trimester.
#104 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

I asked you for the biological change. What happens where we hit the tipping point?

#106 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 10:41 PM | Reply

What changes is the government's power to restrict our rights.

Abortion was legal in all states when the Republic was founded. Restrictions only came later, as a way to control women.

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:44 PM | Reply

Restrictions on abortion coincide with the dawn of the women's rights movement. For the very obvious reason that if a woman is saddled with a child it reduces her capacity to engage in other activities, like social change.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 10:45 PM | Reply

"Abortion was legal in all states when the Republic was founded.

So was slavery was legal in half the country.

"What changes is the government's power to restrict our rights.
#107 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

So we should turn back the clock and make slavery legal again as well?

We could have the same discussions about gun ownership. But, as we started with abortion, let's play that one out first.

So, what biological change is being used to justify abortion being illegal vs. legal?

#109 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 10:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So we should turn back the clock and make slavery legal again as well?"
It's legal for prisoners.

"We could have the same discussions about gun ownership."
If the Founders wanted to ban abortion, they'd have included that in the Constitution. Just like they banned gun control with the Second Amendment.

"So, what biological change is being used to justify abortion being illegal vs. legal?"
Well, one biological change is if carrying the pregnancy to term is a threat to the health of the mother. In that case, abortion is always legal.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 11:01 PM | Reply

"So we should turn back the clock and make slavery legal again as well?"

Banning abortion enslaves women to the fetus inside them.

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-02 11:01 PM | Reply

No clue what Rod V Wade was about at the beginning of this thread, and you still have no idea. How embarrassing for you.

#112 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-02 11:08 PM | Reply

#112 for #109.

#113 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-02 11:08 PM | Reply

"Well, one biological change is if carrying the pregnancy to term is a threat to the health of the mother. #110 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

And outside of that? - I already stated I would grant you all the standard exemptions. So, now for the cases where those don't apply, at what point in BIOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT justifies the change from legal to illegal? If you want to just answer that there is no biological development consideration, it is simply a compromise position - that is fine. But, be honest about it.

#114 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 11:44 PM | Reply

"#112 | POSTED BY YAV"

My question is for you - I don't care about the Supreme Court ruling. You tell me - at which point in biological development should it become illegal for a woman to have an abortion outside of the standard exemptions (rape, ------, eugenics, mother's life in danger, etc.)? At what point in biological development does the mother's desire to not be inconvenienced with a pregnancy not be overruled by the fetus' right to exist? If your answer is NEVER - that is fine, just state it as such.

#115 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-02 11:47 PM | Reply

Go learn things on your own instead of asking people you don't believe.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 12:15 AM | Reply

"#116 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I am not learning ----. I am asking you to explain the basis behind your rationale. The fact that you can't clearly state your reasoning now points to a.) you never stopped to examine your own belief b.) you have no rationale and are afraid to state that fact now.

So, you are column a or column b? My guess is column b.

#117 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 12:18 AM | Reply

"I am asking you to explain the basis behind your rationale."

Self-determination and personal liberty.

If you don't know what those things are, I doubt I will be able to explain them to you.

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 12:23 AM | Reply

"#118 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Quit with the deflections. Unless you want to tell me that you support the mother's right to abort up until birth for ANY reason, you have some point at which you make a distinction that the rights of the fetus outweigh those of the mother. So, is that what you believe? Abortion up until birth for ANY reason?

#119 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 12:37 AM | Reply

I'm fine with the trimester approach they came up with in Roe. I think I like it even better than the viability concept they switched to in Casey.

I'd also be fine with abortion up until birth for any reason, but I don't think it's problematic to restrict that.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 12:44 AM | Reply

"I'm fine with the trimester approach they came up with in Roe."

So, it has nothing to do with biological development - just a compromise for you. Very 3/5ths of you.

"I'd also be fine with abortion up until birth for any reason
#120 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I give you credit for at least being honest about it. You believe life begins with the descent down the ------- canal or being cut out for a c-section. I think you are way out the norm with that belief and pretty despicable morally for that position, but at least you are brave enough to say it.

#121 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 01:03 AM | Reply

"You believe life begins with the descent down the ------- canal or being cut out for a c-section."

No, that's when legal personhood begins.

Life began billions of years ago, at least on this planet.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 01:10 AM | Reply

"So, it has nothing to do with biological development - just a compromise for you. Very 3/5ths of you."

It's nothing like that.

The compromise is between the right to life and the right to self determination.

At some point, the fetus becomes its own self. Unlike say the embryo or the blastocyst.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 01:12 AM | Reply

"At some point, the fetus becomes its own self. Unlike say the embryo or the blastocyst.
#123 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

And as I have been asking you in the last 10 posts - when is that point for you?

#124 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 01:14 AM | Reply

I'm fine with the trimester approach they came up with in Roe. I think I like it even better than the viability concept they switched to in Casey.

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 01:38 AM | Reply

"#125 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

So, it is just a compromise not based on science or morality. Got it.

#126 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 01:40 AM | Reply

It's a balancing act between the rights of the mother and the rights of the fetus.

Since rights are societal constructs, to say it is not based on morality is nonsense.

Science doesn't really play a role. You don't need science to know where babies come from. Which is why I don't like the viability approach. Sciencd could devise a way for a kidnapper to implant a fetus into you, are you going to argue you'd have to cary it to term?

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 01:57 AM | Reply

"It's a balancing act between the rights of the mother and the rights of the fetus."

Yes, and for the 10th time, what is the point at which the rights of the fetus outweigh those of the mother? Per your prior comments, it is just a matter of months after conception for you. So, if that is the case, why are making the split at that point? 1 day either way on a calendar should be the determinant?

#128 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 02:38 AM | Reply

what is the point at which the rights of the fetus outweigh those of the mother?

Never.

But. For you?

I'm willing to bet you'd allow a mother to die rather than terminate the pregnancy.

#129 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-03 03:14 AM | Reply

"Never."

So we have another one fine with abortion up to the moment of delivery for ANY reason. Got it.

"But. For you?
I'm willing to bet you'd allow a mother to die rather than terminate the pregnancy.
#129 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

You should not bet, you don't seem very good at it.

#130 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 03:32 AM | Reply

So we have another one fine with abortion up to the moment of delivery for ANY reason. Got it.

You're fkkking re tar ded if you think any woman would carry a child for 36 weeks and terminate it for shhts and giggles.

You post a lot and have nothing to say.

You're one of the dumbest recent posters.

Stupid Trumper.

#131 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-03 03:46 AM | Reply

"You're fkkking re tar ded if you think any woman would carry a child for 36 weeks and terminate it for shhts and giggles.
#131 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

But you are okay if she did. Just want to be clear on that.

#132 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 04:03 AM | Reply

But you are okay if she did. Just want to be clear on that.
#132 | POSTED BY SKEPTICAL

I'm pro abortion

If you don't want a child. Don't have it.

Whatever the reason. Doesn't matter to me.

I believe there's only one person who's opinion matter regarding birth of a child, the mother's.

You're a cultist. So. Makes sense if you're confused.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-03 04:40 AM | Reply

"You're a cultist.
#133 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK"

I am not the cultist - my beliefs on abortion are aligned with a majority of the US population. You are the outlier here championing on a death cult. You support abortion at any time for any reason - this is borderline psychopathic. But it is not surprising for a leftist like yourself. You ascribe no responsibility for a woman that chooses to get pregnant - so, no repercussions for her actions. Kill the baby? Great! says the Clown.

#134 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 05:20 AM | Reply

What are your beliefs? I spelled mine out quite clearly early on in #95, despite you harping and harping.
Rape?
------?
Life of the Mother?
Fetal malformation?
Trimester? 1st, 2nd, 3rd?
Viability?

Exactly where or what are your line(s)?

#135 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 07:41 AM | Reply

American's views on abortion:
About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases
www.pewresearch.org

#136 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 08:43 AM | Reply

I am not the cultist - my beliefs on abortion are aligned with a majority of the US population.

You were saying?

#137 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 08:44 AM | Reply

"What are your beliefs?"
#135 | POSTED BY YAV

Rape
------
Life of the Mother
Fetal malformation

That is all. Trimester does not matter as life is life. Outside of the above, the chance to get pregnant was a risk assumed by the girl when had sex. On top of this, I would require her to identify the father or she cannot claim any government benefits for the child.

It seems harsh and would 'destroy' the lives of some mothers, but ultimately, it will force them to make wiser choices about who to have sex with and whether or not to use protection. A teenage mom pushing a stroller in high school should be a warning sign to all other girls - so be prepared to have your va jay jay torn up and give that baby up for adoption or stick to oral and butt stuff. I am not even against them having sex - go for it. But, if you create a life, you are responsible for that life.

#138 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 08:50 AM | Reply

"About six-in-ten Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases
www.pewresearch.org
#136 | POSTED BY YAV"

That all depends on how you frame the data. When you specifically ask people about late term abortions, the opinion changes:

"www.usnews.com
NEW YORK (AP) " A solid majority of Americans believe most abortions should be legal in the first three months of a woman's pregnancy, but most say the procedure should usually be illegal in the second and third trimesters, according to a new poll.
.....
However, 65% said abortion should usually be illegal in the second trimester, and 80% said that about the third trimester."

So, you are in a small minority for the abortion on demand at any time for any reason crowd.

#139 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 08:55 AM | Reply

At least you put your position out there. Thanks for that.

Looks like you're not in agreement with the majority of Americans, though.
And you want all the responsibility on the woman - and more. You even want her to name the father, be forced to give birth, and if she doesn't she gets no aid? You want the State right in the middle of enforcing your version of "morality."

And you seriously think that punishing the woman would make teen pregnancy stop? In fact, I'm so stunned at what you are saying, how utterly disconnected it is from real life that I am just going to stop right here. It's just insane and out of touch with reality. Do you think we didn't used to have exactly that kind of pressure put on teenagers and others? And do you not know the results?

Wow.
WOW.

#140 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 09:00 AM | Reply

"Looks like you're not in agreement with the majority of Americans, though."

Moreso than you as my link shows.

"And you want all the responsibility on the woman - and more. You even want her to name the father ... and if she doesn't she gets no aid? You want the State right in the middle of enforcing your version of "morality.""

Not at all. I want the name of the father so I can force them to pay for the baby. The mother still has a choice, she can give the baby up for adoption or she can keep it.

As for the state enforcing 'mortality' - that is the entire justification for our legal system. This is not about policing sex - this is about the murder of a fetus. Last I checked, we still care about murder in the US.

"And you seriously think that punishing the woman would make teen pregnancy stop?"

Stop? No. Drastically decrease? Hell yes. Sorry to say this, but this country needs to shun single moms, not champion them. Single moms are destructive to the fabric of society and their kids are a drain on the system and underperform 2 parent households and every metric that matters. Give consequences to women and they will pick better partners. Charge the fathers for the cost of raising their kids, and they will be more selective of their partners and unprotected sex.

"Do you think we didn't used to have exactly that kind of pressure put on teenagers and others? And do you not know the results?
#140 | POSTED BY YAV "

I do know the results - the number of abortions and single moms is off the charts and is destroying society.

#141 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 09:09 AM | Reply

"It seems harsh and would 'destroy' the lives of some mothers, but ultimately, it will force them to make wiser choices about who to have sex with"

You don't care about the fetus.

You're just using it as a way to control women.

And why shouldn't men be forced to make better choices about who to have sex with?

And what business is it of the state who people choose to have sex with?

You are the classic example of a conservative who wants government so small, it can fit inside every woman's vagina.

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 09:19 AM | Reply

You can't site trimester delineation as a justification when you just stated that you don't use trimester as a parameter in your belief system. Also there was no breakdown on what lines were drawn in your citation other than the basis of trimester. In other words, that didn't back up your position at all since you said trimesters don't figure in your belief system.

Let me help you with a good link to that poll where you can see the breakdown:
apnorc.org

Even in the case of "A woman does not want to be pregnant for any reason" it's still 49% overall approval.
What's missing in the presentation is "don't approve, no opinion" and that is without the trimester even being considered. You'd have to make some assumptions about the responses and extrapolate to reach that conclusion.

In other words, I'm not seeing your opinion as a majority opinion of Americans.

I'm not particularly fond of this polling, though, because it doesn't seem well done, thought out, or complete, and they don't present cross-tabs. Could have been done so much better. It is what it is, though.

#143 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 09:20 AM | Reply

But, if you create a life, you are responsible for that life.
#138 | POSTED BY SKEPTICAL

To force someone to be responsible for their creation without giving them an ownership stake in that creation is both theft and slavery.

If I created it, I can do with it whatever I please with it. Not whatever you please.

One thing that is very clear is that you are a fascist who would use the power of the state to control the minutiae of as many aspects of women's lives as possible.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 09:25 AM | Reply

I do know the results - the number of abortions and single moms is off the charts and is destroying society.

You don't know ---- and you just proved it. AGAIN. The number of abortions is the lowest it's been in 50 years. Before Roe V Wade there were no numbers for abortions except for very limited cases done for very specific reasons. Abortions were done illegally and there are no comparable statistics.

You pine for the days of dead girls, tragic circumstances, forced sterilization, coat hangers, back alley abortions, and all the horrors that led to Roe v Wade being adjudicated in the first place.

#145 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 09:26 AM | Reply

One thing that is very clear is that you are a fascist who would use the power of the state to control the minutiae of as many aspects of women's lives as possible.

THIS.

#146 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 09:27 AM | Reply

That or Taliban "light."

#147 | Posted by YAV at 2021-10-03 09:27 AM | Reply

"Give consequences to women and they will pick better partners."

Got any examples of this working?

Did Roe in Roe v Wade pick a better partner? After all abortion was illegal when she wanted one.

Now here's a sentence that has a much greater chance of being true, based on what we know from Skinner boxes and human psychology:

"Give rewards to women and they will pick better partners." Which in many cases will be no partner at all, since a common reason for partnering is financial need.

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 09:29 AM | Reply

"I want the name of the father so I can force them to pay for the baby."

"Force."

You want coercion. That's all. Because you're a fascist.

You are fundamentally opposed to human freedom and personal liberty. The state knows what's better for people that people themselves. Especially black people, if abortion rates are any indicator. And to you, abortion rates are a very strong indicator.

What you're doing here is you're using the fact that people have sex to put them under the thumb of the all-knowing state. It's for their own good. It's classic fascism.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 09:35 AM | Reply

""Force."
You want coercion. That's all. Because you're a fascist."

This is laughable coming from someone that wants to FORCE me to pay taxes to support these women as well as force people to take a vaccine they don't want. Pretty rich to see you crying about forcing something now. Of course, I am fine with the alternative that we just cut all all government aid regardless.

"You are fundamentally opposed to human freedom and personal liberty."

I am all for it - just not when you expect me to pay for someone else's choices.

"The state knows what's better for people that people themselves"

Yep - that is the Democrat mantra.

"Especially black people, if abortion rates are any indicator. And to you, abortion rates are a very strong indicator."

It is an indicator of racist Democrat policy that want to abort more black babies than have live births each year along with the utter destruction of the black family. Of course, that was the foundational belief of Planned Parenthood.

"What you're doing here is you're using the fact that people have sex to put them under the thumb of the all-knowing state. It's for their own good. It's classic fascism.
#149 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

LOL. Sorry, murdering a fetus is murder. There is no difference. As long as murder is illegal, then we need to enforce the law. If the woman has the kid, then she should be responsible for the bills that the kid generates or give the kid up for adoption. Pretty simple. You want more dead black babies. I just don't know WHY you want more black dead babies. Racism? Organ harvesting? I don't know but I am thinking racism is probably it.

#150 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 11:02 AM | Reply

"LOL. Sorry, murdering a fetus is murder. There is no difference."

You yourself saw a difference in cases of rape, or birth defect.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 11:04 AM | Reply

"You pine for the days of dead girls, tragic circumstances, forced sterilization, coat hangers, back alley abortions, and all the horrors that led to Roe v Wade being adjudicated in the first place.
#145 | POSTED BY YAV"

If a girl wants to stick a clothes hanger up her va jay jay to scramble the brains of her fetus and she bleeds out, I will not shed a tear. She is a murderer - sometimes murders get killed in the act of committing their crime.

#152 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 11:04 AM | Reply

"You yourself saw a difference in cases of rape, or birth defect.
#151 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Justifiable homicide.

#153 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 11:05 AM | Reply

"FORCE me to pay taxes"

Like that's anything close to the burden of raising a child.
Taxes are inescapable in any society with a government that requires money.
But if you really think taxes are fascism, then you must be okay with fascism, since you keep paying them.

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 11:06 AM | Reply

"Justifiable homicide."

Why is it justifiable to kill an innocent life because the mother made bad decisions that resulted in her rape?

Explain the justification.

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 11:07 AM | Reply

"FORCE me to pay taxes to support these women"

It's about a million times cheaper than supporting their unwanted children that they weren't allowed to abort.

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-03 11:09 AM | Reply

"Why is it justifiable to kill an innocent life because the mother made bad decisions that resulted in her rape?
#155 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

A crime is a crime - don't victim blame here.

#157 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 11:48 AM | Reply

"It's about a million times cheaper than supporting their unwanted children that they weren't allowed to abort.
#156 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Sometimes you need to pay more to lead a moral life. Probably would have been cheaper to keep slavery legal. But, it was not the moral thing to do so the GOP had to come together to take the Democrat's slaves away.

#158 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-03 11:51 AM | Reply

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