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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, October 10, 2021

More than a thousand flights were canceled on Sunday and 800 on Saturday. The airline blamed air traffic control and "disruptive weather," but no other carrier reported problems.

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Blame ATC? Good luck with that.

#1 | Posted by LesWit at 2021-10-10 10:45 PM | Reply

From what I read it was a "sick-out" protest to a company vax mandate.

#2 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 12:08 AM | Reply

air traffic control and "disruptive weather,"

Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most.

#3 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-10-11 06:58 AM | Reply

The vaccine mandates have the great effect of removing the stupidest and most dangerous people from an organization.

If they could institute a vaccine mandate for all airline passengers, then the disruptions on airplanes would go way down.

#4 | Posted by bus_driver at 2021-10-11 09:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If they could institute a vaccine mandate for all airline passengers, then the disruptions on airplanes would go way down."

Why?

Currently, in order to fly, you must show proof of vaccination, proof of recovery, or a negative test. In fact if you're flying in to the US, you need to show a test or proof of recovery even if you are vaccinated.

Southwest does this a lot. I flew into Vegas last night. It was a mess. It was also a mess when I was out here in July and Southwest (and only Southwest) were cancelling flights because it was "too hot."

That being said, my Delta flight from Frankfurt into ATL was at about 90%. The flight into LAS was 100%. There weren't even any upgrades available.

#5 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 11:05 AM | Reply

It's funny how the passengers can comply with the rules and the airline workers can comply with the rules... but the government workers can't comply with the rules.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 11:48 AM | Reply

"If they could institute a vaccine mandate for all airline passengers, then the disruptions on airplanes would go way down."

Why?

#5 | Posted by madbomber

Because trumpers dont get vaxxed, and trumpers are the angry babies who are throwing tantrums on flights.

Keeping the baby morons off of planes would make the planes more peaceful for everyone.

#7 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 12:43 PM | Reply

From what I read it was a "sick-out" protest to a company vax mandate.

#2 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Because that's the narrative right wing "news" is running with despite it being denied by all unions that would be involved as well as SWA itself.

www.reuters.com

Southwest Airlines (LUV.N) will run fewer flights through the end of the year in a bid to fix issues that disrupted operations this summer and led to flight delays and cancellations.

The low-cost carrier on Thursday said it will reduce an average of 27 flights a day from Sept. 7 through Oct. 6 and cut 162 flights a day from Oct. 7 through Nov. 5.

Oooops.

#8 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-11 12:46 PM | Reply

#8. Oops what? Did they or did they not have a sick out?

#9 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:04 PM | Reply

Read the post.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-11 01:08 PM | Reply

#10. I read it. It was a corporate press release.

Again, did they have a sick out or not?

#11 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:27 PM | Reply

They may well be having problems that require a short term reduction in flights. That doesn't explain away a sick out.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:29 PM | Reply

The only people claiming the sickout are rightwing "news" outlets and pundits.

SWA denies it. The employee unions deny it.

And about six weeks ago SWA stated it was going to be cutting flights when? Right now.

It's not very hard to see what all that adds up to.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-11 01:36 PM | Reply

But I know, you read it on the intertubes so it must be a sick out and SWA is just hiding it along with the unions and the FAA.

You rubes are becoming a real time lesson in how effective unscrupulous media can be in entrenching a narrative.

#14 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-11 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#13. So they didn't have an unprecedented number of employees call off sick on the same day?

For the record I think this anti vax thing is stupid.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:39 PM | Reply

"For the record I think this anti vax thing is stupid."

Probably explains why it's almost entirely conservatives, libertarians, and independents who are part of it.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 01:42 PM | Reply

Our news media is mostly horrible. The concept of an anti vax sick out is click bait. The question I have is did they have an unprecedented number of employees call off on the same day?

#17 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:43 PM | Reply

"The concept of an anti vax sick out is click bait."

Is this clickbait?
Trump Administration memo opens door to mass sickout by ATC
theaircurrent.com

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 01:48 PM | Reply

#16. Don't forget those black people, Snoofy. Can't forget them.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-11 01:48 PM | Reply

"The question I have is did they have an unprecedented number of employees call off on the same day?"

Their medical history is none of your business, are you really so dumb you don't know that?
They're not legally allowed to engage in any labor action, are you really so dumb you don't know that?
???

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 01:49 PM | Reply

So they didn't have an unprecedented number of employees call off sick on the same day?

I've explicitly stated that the airline, unions and FAA have said no.

That's all I can say because I'm not an employee for SWA.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-11 01:56 PM | Reply

"#16. Don't forget those black people, Snoofy. Can't forget them."

While White adults account for the largest share (57 percent) of unvaccinated adults, Black and Hispanic people remain less likely than their White counterparts to have received a vaccine, leaving them at increased risk, particularly as the variant spreads." (A bit more than 60 percent of Americans are classified in the census as white alone; 18.5 percent are Hispanic or Latino, 13.4 percent are Black, and about 6 percent are Asian.) www.nationalreview.com

That's from August. Blacks fall more into the "hesitant" group, many of whom have been converted. Whites fall more into the "resistant" group which is where you find the Conservatives, Libertarians, and Independents.

Do your Libertarian friends know you're vaccinated? Who am I kidding you don't have friends.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 01:57 PM | Reply

"unions and FAA have said no."

^
It would open the door for legal action if the Union or the FAA said "Yes."

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 01:58 PM | Reply

For the record I think this anti vax thing is stupid.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger

But you'll still spend all day every day spreading propaganda for the anti vax side and attacking the pro vax side.

Does that mean you're calling YOURSELF stupid?

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 02:09 PM | Reply

"Because trumpers dont get vaxxed, and trumpers are the angry babies who are throwing tantrums on flights."

I still don't get what you are saying.

Are you saying that non-vaxxed people should not be allowed as a punative measure, even if they meet the other public health guidelines required for air travel?

And there are a lot of non-Trumpers who have so far refused the vax. Unless you're suggesting that the millions of professionals who have walked off their jobs are all Trump supporters.

Possible...but I don't think likely.

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 02:16 PM | Reply

"Unless you're suggesting that the millions of professionals who have walked off their jobs are all Trump supporters."

They are primed to become Trump supporters in 2024 if he promises them their jobs back.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 02:17 PM | Reply

"And about six weeks ago SWA stated it was going to be cutting flights when? Right now."

Cutting flights and cancelling flights that have already been booked are two very different things.

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 02:18 PM | Reply

"Because trumpers dont get vaxxed, and trumpers are the angry babies who are throwing tantrums on flights."

I still don't get what you are saying.

Are you saying that non-vaxxed people should not be allowed as a punative measure, even if they meet the other public health guidelines required for air travel?

And there are a lot of non-Trumpers who have so far refused the vax. Unless you're suggesting that the millions of professionals who have walked off their jobs are all Trump supporters.

Possible...but I don't think likely.

#25 | Posted by madbomber

I'm saying the recent rash of -------- behaving like -------- in airplanes is mostly fueled by trump supporters - angry that their con man cult leader lost, angry that the election was "stolen", angry that they're being forced to wear a mask, angry that libs are telling them what to do...just primed and ready to scream at a flight attendent because their stupid gullible brains have been so crammed full of lies and propaganda to make them mad.

So keeping these angry morons off the planes with vaccine mandates would be the most effective way to get airlines back to civility.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 02:28 PM | Reply

The only anecdotal story I've heard from an associate had to do with weather and crew rest. Aircrew have a set duty day that they cannot exceed. I'm not sure what it is for commercial aviation, but for military is was 12 hours. If they can't complete the flight from takeoff to final parking, they can't go. This happens a lot in the south in the summer. I can also attest that my flight from ATL to LAS last night was way too long and took a very unusual routing. I was asleep the whole time, not sure why. If it was weather it was one hell of a divert. Normally we cross Oklahoma City. Last night we dipped south to Austin, and then back up.

There is a move by the pilots union to block the vaccine mandate that Southwest has put in place, which directs employees to be vaxxed by 08 December.

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 02:29 PM | Reply

"They are primed to become Trump supporters in 2024 if he promises them their jobs back."

I think you're absolutely right.

Biden has done a good job of placating the howling left for the most part, but has done so at the expense of everyone else.

Biden's approval rating right now appears to be worse than Trump's ever was. He currently has a 21% strongly approve. 50% strongly disapprove.

50% was not a number that Trump ever managed to crack.

He's got to start moving to the middle, or lose the fight on principle.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 02:36 PM | Reply

Biden has done a good job of placating the howling left for the most part, but has done so at the expense of everyone else.

#30 | Posted by madbomber

"placating the howling left" = saving lives

And sociopaths like you dont see the point.

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 02:50 PM | Reply

"Aircrew have a set duty day that they cannot exceed. I'm not sure what it is for commercial aviation, but for military is was 12 hours."

^
This rule was considered as a contributing factor in the "Some Ting Wong" Korean Airlines rough landing in San Francisco. As in, a different crew landed the plane than took off, owing to the length of the flight.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 03:34 PM | Reply

"And sociopaths like you dont see the point."

Me and the majority of Americans it would appear.

Anyway...we'll see what happens in 2024. The big difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump is a piece of ---- with decent policy. Biden is a decent man with ------ policies. I would place my bets that in the next election, voters will choose policy.

Maybe this will give you a chance to have your own "stop the steal" moment.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 03:49 PM | Reply

Me and the majority of Americans it would appear.
#33 | Posted by madbomber

the majority of americans are vaccinate and want others to be vaccinated too.

You are in a minority of sociopaths who think wearing a mask or getting a shot is worse than people dying or having long lasting debilitating preventable disease.

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 03:51 PM | Reply

"As in, a different crew landed the plane than took off, owing to the length of the flight."

On really long international flights there are reserve crews. I used to fly between Doha and the US quite a bit. I never knew this, and it may just be a feature on the Qatar Air jets, but in the very back of the plane there is a small door with a ladder that goes into a crew dormitory. That's where the off-duty crews hang out and sleep.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 03:51 PM | Reply

The big difference between Trump and Biden is that Trump is a piece of ---- with decent policy.
#33 | Posted by madbomber

Replacing democracy with fascism is "decent policy?"

Tell us more.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 03:52 PM | Reply

"Trump is a piece of ---- with decent policy."

His policies were hot garbage. He started and lost a trade war, then he cost hundreds of thousands of Americans their lives. All while spending like a drunken sailor.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 03:53 PM | Reply

"the majority of americans are vaccinate and want others to be vaccinated too."

Do the majority of Americans think that vaxxing should be conducted forcibly?

Do they think that those who don't want to get vaxxed should be exiled?

And from a business standpoint, do businesses want to lose 152 million customers?

And do you want your taxes to go to fund 152 million people who have been excluded from work?

COVID is not that big of a deal. Those who don't get vaxxed are only hurting themselves. You seem to be one of the few people who doesn't understand this. Stop being such a baby.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 03:55 PM | Reply

Other than a tax cut for the rich and conservative judges (which he could have cared less about), what exactly did ------- achieve?

#39 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-10-11 03:56 PM | Reply

"Do the majority of Americans think that vaxxing should be conducted forcibly?"

Probably, but for legal reasons, nobody is getting vaccinated forcibly.

Elijah McClain notwithstanding.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 03:57 PM | Reply

And from a business standpoint, do businesses want to lose 152 million customers?

if ------- and the anti-science crowd had their way 152 million would have died from covid anyway

#41 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-10-11 03:57 PM | Reply

"Do they think that those who don't want to get vaxxed should be exiled?"

Exile would be preferred, but who is going to take them?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 03:57 PM | Reply

"And do you want your taxes to go to fund 152 million people who have been excluded from work?"

It's almost certainly cheaper than the alternative.

Do you think someone without the horse sense to get vaccinated would be a good employee? I don't.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 03:59 PM | Reply

"His policies were hot garbage. He started and lost a trade war, then he cost hundreds of thousands of Americans their lives. All while spending like a drunken sailor."

Fair.

By decent, I meant they weren't hot garbage, as Biden's are panning out to be.

I can't stand Trump. I think he's established a cult of personality in much the same way that many dictators have. He's the US's Hugo Chavez. But when given the choice between this and a president whose tenure has mostly been a dumpster fire, and not looking to get any better, it's a very difficult decision to make.

#44 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 04:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Not really seeing what's so bad about Biden.

Maybe it's because right-wingers were endlessly crying wolf about Dems, even while Trump was President.

If I'm missing some real failures, please point them out.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Do the majority of Americans think that vaxxing should be conducted forcibly?

Do they think that those who don't want to get vaxxed should be exiled?

And from a business standpoint, do businesses want to lose 152 million customers?

And do you want your taxes to go to fund 152 million people who have been excluded from work?

COVID is not that big of a deal. Those who don't get vaxxed are only hurting themselves. You seem to be one of the few people who doesn't understand this. Stop being such a baby.

#38 | Posted by madbomber

Define "forcibly".

A hundred years ago they FINED americans who wouldnt get vaxxed. Is that FORCIBLY?

Businesses don't care about covid they only care about money. THerefore it's not their decision. Government's job is to save lives so government has to force businesses to choose saving lives over making money and killing people.

And thanks for one more reminder that you're a sociopath - the only type of person who thinks covid is no big deal.

And of course you couldnt resist adding one more reminder that you're also a moron who doesn't understand how vaccines or contagions work. Your decision affects others, so morons aren't just hurting themselves.

Great post!

#46 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 04:47 PM | Reply

Other than a tax cut for the rich and conservative judges (which he could have cared less about), what exactly did ------- achieve?

#39 | Posted by truthhurts

A massive payday for morticians.

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 04:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not really seeing what's so bad about Biden.

Maybe it's because right-wingers were endlessly crying wolf about Dems, even while Trump was President.

If I'm missing some real failures, please point them out.

#45 | Posted by snoofy

Howbout failing to defend america from the fascists who attacked out country and are still attacking our country?

Nothing else he does matters unless he keeps them from replacing democracy with fascism.

And what has he done, besides hire an attorney general who promised to go easy on them?

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 04:49 PM | Reply

I can't stand Trump. I think he's established a cult of personality in much the same way that many dictators have. He's the US's Hugo Chavez. But when given the choice between this and a president whose tenure has mostly been a dumpster fire, and not looking to get any better, it's a very difficult decision to make.

#44 | Posted by madbomber

yeah. A Con man who killed a half million with lies and incompetence and wants to replace democracy with fascism, or a guy who's spending money to fix the crumbling nation. What a dillema for a sociopath.

#49 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 04:50 PM | Reply

"Maybe it's because right-wingers were endlessly crying wolf about Dems, even while Trump was President."

I think you forget who you are talking to.

Political tribalism exists on both sides of the aisle. In fact you're engaging in it right now.

I don't belong to a tribe. Maybe independent, if that's a tribe.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 04:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If I'm missing some real failures, please point them out."

Do you have that much time?

It's also worth noting that what you view as a win, others will view as a failure. What really counts is the total number of people in each category, because it will influence the way they vote.

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 04:57 PM | Reply

"It's also worth noting that what you view as a win, others will view as a failure."

Try me.
The Wins I see are not many:
US out of Afghanistan.
More and more people getting vaccinated.

There might be a few other things but nothing major comes to mind.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:00 PM | Reply

"Howbout failing to defend america from the fascists who attacked out country and are still attacking our country?"

Those wheels of justice turn slow.
Well, except for Ashli.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:01 PM | Reply

"Businesses don't care about covid they only care about money. THerefore it's not their decision. Government's job is to save lives so government has to force businesses to choose saving lives over making money and killing people."

If that were the case, government would be first banning alcohol. And of course tobacco. And many of the foods we eat. And virtually all vehicle usage. And swimming.

I think you would have been a happy resident of the Soviet Union. With the exception of alcohol and tobacco, the USSR severely restricted many of the elements that are far more deadly than COVID.

Oh, and their businesses didn't exist to make money either. In fact they weren't even really businesses. They were government managed enterprises that answered to Soviet economic planners.

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:02 PM | Reply

I don't belong to a tribe. Maybe independent, if that's a tribe.

#50 | Posted by madbomber

What's the name of the tribe where you constantly parrot republican propaganda then say you're not a republican?

The delusional tribe? Chief Lies-a-lot?

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:02 PM | Reply

Also,

"Howbout failing to defend america from the fascists who attacked out country and are still attacking our country?"

Won't that just turn people Republican, just like Gay Superman is gonna turn people Republican?
???

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:02 PM | Reply

If that were the case, government would be first banning alcohol. And of course tobacco. And many of the foods we eat. And virtually all vehicle usage. And swimming.

#54 | Posted by madbomber

if alcoholism were contagious government SHOULD ban it. But it's not. What government DID do is ban drunk driving so your personal choice to be drunk doesn't harm someone else. Just like they can ban moron anti vaxxers from public life so their personal decision doesn't harm someone else.

#57 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:04 PM | Reply

Won't that just turn people Republican, just like Gay Superman is gonna turn people Republican?
???

#56 | Posted by snoofy

How many threads do you want to discuss that on?

#58 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:05 PM | Reply

#51

How about we start with the Keystone XL pipeline.

Biden revoked the permit as a gift to environmental activists. It was symbolic act intended to placate stupid people. Oil that would have flowed efficiently from as far away as Canada will now be moved by trucks or trains driven by diesel engines that produce a ton of carbon. Had the environmentalists not been stupid, they would have been advocating for the pipeline as a means of cutting carbon emissions.

The oil will still move, just less efficiently and at greater cost. And a higher carbon footprint.

Of course by ensuring that oil would not be moved through the pipeline, Biden did create, or at least likely save a bunch of jobs that would have been made obsolete by the pipeline.

#59 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:11 PM | Reply

"US out of Afghanistan."

That was negotiated by Trump.

"More and more people getting vaccinated."

Do you think more or less people would have been vaccinated had Trump won. I think it would be more.

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What's the name of the tribe where you constantly parrot republican propaganda then say you're not a republican?"

What Republican propaganda do you feel I am parroting?

I think they're a bunch of idiots. Just like the Dems. But even idiots are correct on occasion.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:15 PM | Reply

Moving it by trucks and trains means lots more jobs for Americans.

Pipelines don't fail often, but when they do it's catastrophic. See: Orange County, CA.

I'm not really seeing a win or a loss on that one.

A pipeline pushing Canadian oil down a Canadian pipe to American ports for export... isn't a win for America.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:17 PM | Reply

"Just like they can ban moron anti vaxxers from public life so their personal decision doesn't harm someone else."

You don't really think that possible, do you?

#63 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:17 PM | Reply

"Do you think more or less people would have been vaccinated had Trump won. I think it would be more."

Far less, because Trump would not have issued a vaccine mandate like Biden did.

Duh.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:18 PM | Reply

"US out of Afghanistan."
That was negotiated by Trump.

Right, that's a big reason the withdrawal was so messy, but the actual withdrawal was still on Biden's watch, and he owns what he inherited.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:20 PM | Reply

"Moving it by trucks and trains means lots more jobs for Americans."

Totally agree.

That was one of the things that was funny when it was cancelled-the republicans clamoring about the job losses. A few thousand short-term jobs, yes, compared to many more long term positions for truck drivers and train operators.

But Biden couldn't have sold it that way. The demographic he was trying to placate is too stupid to get it.

And that's why it was a bad policy. It was based on pragmatism. It was based on giving a bunch of crybabies their binkie.

#66 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:21 PM | Reply

Won't that just turn people Republican, just like Gay Superman is gonna turn people Republican?
???
#56 | Posted by snoofy
How many threads do you want to discuss that on?
#58 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I'm asking why doesn't it apply here?

You want to have cake on one thread, and eat it on the other.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:21 PM | Reply

Actually, Keystone XL was never a good policy for America to begin with.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:22 PM | Reply

Do you think more or less people would have been vaccinated had Trump won. I think it would be more.

#60 | Posted by madbomber

You got that right. Your party is so evil that they literally chose to extend a pandemic OUT OF SPITE that their cult leader lost.

But that's not biden's fault. It's rupert murdoch's.

#69 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:23 PM | Reply

"Far less, because Trump would not have issued a vaccine mandate like Biden did."

Disagree.

Trump would have taken credit for "his" vaccine, and his tribe would have been screaming like Speaksoftly that everyone get vaxxed.

I also think that, had Trump won, there would have been a lot of opposition on the far left. First, it's the far left that his historically been the most against big pharma. Second, they would be screaming that the requirement to get the vaccine was just another facet of Trumpian fascism. The military would have been forced to get the vaccine once it was approved by the FDA, just like a million other vaccines we get. Schools would have likely required it, just like the do the flu shot. And businesses would be free to do as they chose.

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:25 PM | Reply

"Just like they can ban moron anti vaxxers from public life so their personal decision doesn't harm someone else."

You don't really think that possible, do you?

#63 | Posted by madbomber

Of course it's possible. You can ban them from anywhere that isn't their own private property.

You dont have the right to go out and put people's lives at risk for no reason other than youre throwing a tempter tantrum that your cult leader lost an election.

#71 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:25 PM | Reply

I'm asking why doesn't it apply here?

You want to have cake on one thread, and eat it on the other.

#67 | Posted by snoofy

How would prosecuting fascists push swing voters to the right?

#72 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 05:27 PM | Reply

"Actually, Keystone XL was never a good policy for America to begin with."

Why not?

Efficiently moving resources is bad policy?

Is it better to move them inefficiently?

#73 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:33 PM | Reply

"But that's not biden's fault. It's rupert murdoch's."

Wanna know a really easy way to compel people to get vaccinated?

Pay them.

The government has been shelling out cash like a drunk sailor for the last two years over COVID. If you offer an 18 year old $2k to get vaxxed, he or she id probably going to take it.

They may try and get vaxxed a few times even.

#74 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:35 PM | Reply

The younger they are, the less likely they are to be vaxxed. But if you offer money to 12-24 year olds, I'd hazard a guess they would take the money.

#75 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:36 PM | Reply

"Efficiently moving resources is bad policy?"

They're not American resources, and they're only being moved through America to get loaded onto foreign ships in American ports, where they get sent to foreign lands.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:37 PM | Reply

"Of course it's possible. You can ban them from anywhere that isn't their own private property."

Really?

You can ban them from a public park? From driving on a road?

And most businesses are private property.

And if they were banned from these public places...presumably they would be recused from paying taxes?

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:38 PM | Reply

How would prosecuting fascists push swing voters to the right?
#72 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Same way attacking straights with a gay comic book moves swing voters right.

By making them victims.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:38 PM | Reply

"They're not American resources, and they're only being moved through America to get loaded onto foreign ships in American ports, where they get sent to foreign lands."

Not true.

A lot of the oil was going to come from the Bakken formation in ND and MT. And the oil was going to refineries in Texas.

#79 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:39 PM | Reply

And businesses would be free to do as they chose.
#70 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Whereas with Biden, there's a vaccine mandate.

Duh. Again.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:40 PM | Reply

"You dont have the right to go out and put people's lives at risk for no reason other than youre throwing a tempter tantrum that your cult leader lost an election."

I can't expose anyone to COVID unilaterally. Not legally anyway.

They need to willingly expose themselves to me as well.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:41 PM | Reply

#79 Then America can build their own pipeline, instead of having TransCanada build it.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:41 PM | Reply

"Whereas with Biden, there's a vaccine mandate."

Got it.

And maybe Trump would have issued a mandate as well as a means of forcing progressives who didn't want the Trump vaccination to get vaxxed. It kinda sounds like something he would do if the perception was that he was sticking it to the left.

#83 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:42 PM | Reply

"#79 Then America can build their own pipeline, instead of having TransCanada build it."

There already is one. Dakota Access.

#84 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:45 PM | Reply

Let's move on.

$15 minimum wage. More dumbness.

Although if you tied a $15 minimum wage to having a COVID vax, you would almost certainly see a lot of younger people getting vaxxed.

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:49 PM | Reply

Cancelling the border wall.

Why?

Did it not create enough jobs?

#86 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:50 PM | Reply

"A lot of the oil was going to come from the Bakken formation in ND and MT. And the oil was going to refineries in Texas."

And now that a lot of it won't, that means less CO2, not more.

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:52 PM | Reply

And let me be very clear, I'm not pissing on Biden. During his years in the Senate he was a reasoned centrist. That's why I voted for him. I just think he was elected to run a party that has created too big of a tent to manage effectively. I think Nancy Pelosi would tell you that as well.

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:52 PM | Reply

"And now that a lot of it won't, that means less CO2, not more."

Oh, no sir.

The oil is still going to get there. It's just going to get there via means of transportation that create CO2. And lots of it.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:53 PM | Reply

"$15 minimum wage. More dumbness."

Not a Federal law.
Nothing to do with Biden.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:53 PM | Reply

"The oil is still going to get there."

Not as much as if there were a pipeline.

Less oil being burned, less CO2. Econ 101 stuff.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:54 PM | Reply

"Cancelling the border wall.
Why?"

Try asking why Trump couldn't build one to begin with.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:55 PM | Reply

"Not as much as if there were a pipeline."

It is literally all going there.

Every last drop that would have reached a Texas refinery via pipeline will now reach a Texas refinery via truck or train.

Especially now with gas prices so high. I bet they're drilling new wells daily.

What? Did you make the mistake that the idiot environmentalists did that the lack of a pipeline would result in lower demand for oil? That it would just be left in the ground?

Silly child.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:57 PM | Reply

"Not a Federal law. Nothing to do with Biden."

After calling on Congress to pass the PRO Act, a piece of pro-labor legislation, Biden added, "By the way: While you're thinking of sending things to my desk, let's raise the minimum wage to $15. No one working 40 hours a week should live below the poverty line."

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 05:58 PM | Reply

You make it sound like having a pipeline has no bearing on how quickly the oil will be produced.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 05:59 PM | Reply

#94 since that hasn't happened, it's neither a win or a loss.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:00 PM | Reply

"Try asking why Trump couldn't build one to begin with."

Why couldn't he?

And who cares...it wouldn't have worked anyways. But it was a decent jobs plan.

#97 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:00 PM | Reply

Wanna know a really easy way to compel people to get vaccinated?

Pay them.

#74 | Posted by madbomber

Your stupid cult is literally willing to kill their kids to avoid a vaccine. You'd have to pay them a lot to make them abandon a position they're that dedicated to.

And what would your cult leaders say if dems DID offer to pay, besides attempting to prevent them from doing it?

#98 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 06:05 PM | Reply

"You make it sound like having a pipeline has no bearing on how quickly the oil will be produced."

It doesn't.

The Keystone XL pipeline would have moved up to 700,000 barrels per day. Instead, it will be made up for by 3700 tanker trucks and 1000 rail cars per day.

#99 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:06 PM | Reply

What? Did you make the mistake that the idiot environmentalists did that the lack of a pipeline would result in lower demand for oil? That it would just be left in the ground?

Silly child.

#93 | Posted by madbomber

Higher prices means more gets left in the ground and the planet doesn't get as hot. Simple economics. Child.

#100 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 06:06 PM | Reply

"You dont have the right to go out and put people's lives at risk for no reason other than youre throwing a tempter tantrum that your cult leader lost an election."

I can't expose anyone to COVID unilaterally. Not legally anyway.

They need to willingly expose themselves to me as well.

#81 | Posted by madbomber

They're not exposing themselves to you. They're going to get groceries. Moron anti vaxxer are the ones making the grocery stores unsafe. Anti vaxxers are the ones making a selfish choice to put others' lives in danger, so they're the ones that need to be regulated and controlled.

#101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 06:08 PM | Reply

"Your stupid cult is literally willing to kill their kids to avoid a vaccine."

Kill kids?

If you're under 18, you're about six times more likely to die in a car crash than die from COVID.

You're about three times more likely to die from drowning.

Even the seasonal flu remains a greater threat to those under 18 that COVID.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:09 PM | Reply

Same way attacking straights with a gay comic book moves swing voters right.

By making them victims.

#78 | Posted by snoofy

A gay comic books makes them feel like dems are moving the country in the overly woke direction.

Prosecuting fascists does NOT make swing voters like dems are too woke.

Idiotic comparison. Should have kept it on the other thread.

#103 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 06:10 PM | Reply

"Every last drop that would have reached a Texas refinery via pipeline will now reach a Texas refinery via truck or train."

You're right and I'm wrong. Keystone XL will have no impact on production either way:

So here is why cancelling Keystone XL is a win for America and for Biden:

As I pointed out on Twitter: by cancelling Keystone XL President Biden will not reduce GHG emissions since the pipeline was intended to move existing production. Rather, the alternatives to KXL will generate higher emissions, at higher risk, while pulling billions from Canada's economy. Reducing pipeline capacity will make the railways the big winners with the US Midwest refiners coming a close second as they will continue to get Canadian oil on the cheap. The loss of optionality, meanwhile, will cost Canada and Alberta heavily in loss of tax and royalty payments. Cancelling KXL is a massive windfall for US refiners and rail interests; a loss to provincial and federal coffers; will increase the GHG intensity of the oil; and will increase the risk to rail communities. Irrespective of activist claims, it will not reduce Alberta's oil sands production and it will not decrease global GHG emissions.
achemistinlangley.net

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:10 PM | Reply

If you're under 18, you're about six times more likely to die in a car crash than die from COVID.

You're about three times more likely to die from drowning.

Even the seasonal flu remains a greater threat to those under 18 that COVID.

#102 | Posted by madbomber

You're back to your "it's just a few dead kids" argument sociopath?

#105 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 06:10 PM | Reply

"They're not exposing themselves to you. They're going to get groceries. Moron anti vaxxer are the ones making the grocery stores unsafe."

Unsafe for who?

Other anti-vaxxers?

I'm confused. Who are you thinking you're protecting with this line of reasoning?

#106 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:10 PM | Reply

"A gay comic books makes them feel like dems are moving the country in the overly woke direction.
Prosecuting fascists does NOT make swing voters like dems are too woke."

Says who?
Are you speaking for yourself?

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:11 PM | Reply

"If you're under 18, you're about six times more likely to die in a car crash than die from COVID."

If you're under 18, what's the most likely way a parent or guardian dies, and where is COVID on that list?

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:11 PM | Reply

"You're back to your "it's just a few dead kids" argument sociopath?"

Me a sociopath???

I have yet to hear you demand and end to the use of personal vehicles or the filling in of swimming pools.

You're a monster.

How many dead kids does it take, Speaksoftly, before you demand an end to these tragedies?

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:12 PM | Reply

"But it was a decent jobs plan."

No it wasn't. It was far too expensive of a jobs plan.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:12 PM | Reply

"If you're under 18, what's the most likely way a parent or guardian dies, and where is COVID on that list?"

If you're vaccinated? It's unimportant. Somewhere between getting eaten by a shark and struck by lightning.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:14 PM | Reply

"If you're vaccinated?"

And if you're not?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:14 PM | Reply

"No it wasn't. It was far too expensive of a jobs plan."

It was a stupid plan. A waste of DoD dollars.

Biden cancelled it as a jab to Trumpian who thought it would work.

Although, under the Biden regime the situation at the border has become a complete and total dumpster fire. One that's very difficult to put out without offending someone in your base to the point where they might not vote for you.

#113 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:16 PM | Reply

"And if you're not?"

Then go to CVS and get one.

Or don't and risk getting sick. I don't care either way.

#114 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:16 PM | Reply

"Although, under the Biden regime the situation at the border has become a complete and total dumpster fire."

Has it really changed that much?

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:20 PM | Reply

"And if you're not?"
Then go to CVS and get one.

^
That's not how the real world works.
In the real world, people are refusing to get vaccinated.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:20 PM | Reply

"Biden cancelled it as a jab to Trumpian who thought it would work."

Biden cancelling it has just about nothing to do with Trump, and everything to do with American values, specifically, not walling ourselves off from the rest of the world like John Goodman's character in 10 Cloverfield Lane.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"That's not how the real world works. In the real world, people are refusing to get vaccinated."

OK.

Then for under 49, the mortality rate is .4%

But again...don't care. A person choosing not to get vaxxed doesn't impact me at all. It really doesn't impact anyone other than themselves.

#118 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:30 PM | Reply

Has it really changed that much?

Yes.

Worst in 21 years.

And what makes it even worse is that he is inevitably hamstrung in what he can do. If he takes measures to seal off the border, such as deploying military units, he will risk the wrath of the far left in the US, who, like Trumpers, are more than willing to engage in violent riots or attack government buildings. If that were to happen, the optics would suggest that a left-leaning president cannot even control the left. This would isolate the centrists in the party, as well as enable the Republicans to make the claim that the mayor had lost control. Goodbye 2024.

#119 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:43 PM | Reply

"Biden cancelling it has just about nothing to do with Trump, and everything to do with American values."

My American values have no qualms at all with implementing border controls. In fact I don't think many Americans are against border controls.

#120 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:45 PM | Reply

It just ensures that the people crossing the border are allowed to cross.

#121 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:45 PM | Reply

"Then for under 49, the mortality rate is .4%"

That's in line with the article the other day, saying 120,000 kids had lost a parent or guardian to COVID-19.

"A person choosing not to get vaxxed doesn't impact me at all."

Until you need a hospital bed, and they're in it.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:48 PM | Reply

"My American values have no qualms at all with implementing border controls."

Your American values have no qualms with spreading a disease that has killed 734,255 and counting.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Worst in 21 years."

So it hasn't really changed compared to 21 years ago, is what I'm hearing in the big picture here.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:49 PM | Reply

What exactly is the worst in 21 years?
And, is it that bad, for more or less for the same reasons as 21 years ago?

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:50 PM | Reply

"Your American values have no qualms with spreading a disease that has killed 734,255 and counting."

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Ben Franklin said that.

Was he un-American?

#126 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:51 PM | Reply

"Ben Franklin said that."

What was Ben Franklin talking about when he said that?

Was it a plague?

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:52 PM | Reply

What essential liberty is given up when you get a vaccine?

You got a vaccine. What essential liberty did you lose?

You tell us, you're the one making the claim.

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 06:54 PM | Reply

"What exactly is the worst in 21 years?"

The most number of apprehensions.

#129 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:58 PM | Reply

"What was Ben Franklin talking about when he said that?"

Essential liberty. That's what he said.

#130 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 06:59 PM | Reply

"You got a vaccine. What essential liberty did you lose?"

I choose to get it.

Maybe more importantly, I chose a line of work where I don't always get a say.

The outcome of something you willingly choose is different than the outcome of something you were forced to do.

#131 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:00 PM | Reply

Again, what essential liberty did you lose, when you got vaccinated?

More to the point, why'd you do it, if you agree with Ben?

???

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:01 PM | Reply

fascists does NOT make swing voters like dems are too woke."

Says who?
Are you speaking for yourself?

#107 | Posted by snoofy

Says common sense, polling data, and the person who got clinton elected twice:
www.cnn.com
"In NPR/PBS Newshour/Marist poll conducted shortly after the 2018 midterm elections, a clear majority of people (52%) said they were "against the country becoming more politically correct and upset that there are too many things people can't say anymore." Just 36% said that they were "in favor of the United States becoming more politically correct and like when people are being more sensitive in their comments about others."
A May 2021 Pew poll showed that 57% of Americans believe that "people today are too easily offended by what others say" while just 40% agreed that "people should be careful what they say to avoid offending others."
And even on specific issues, there's some sentiment that people believe the so-called "woke mob" has gone too far. In an Axios-Ipsos poll from May, 70% of Americans opposed "the 'defund the police' movement" while just 27% supported it. A May Fox News poll showed that 47% of registered voters said the Biden administration is proposing too much of an increase in government spending, while 17% said not enough, and 33% chose just about the right amount.
And there's no question that Republicans see the focus on "wokeness" as a major opening for them in 2022. "

#133 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 07:01 PM | Reply

"The outcome of something you willingly choose is different than the outcome of something you were forced to do."

Not that you'll listen, but:
Nobody's forced to get the vaccine.

Now, tell us, what essential liberty did you choose to surrender?

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:02 PM | Reply

Me a sociopath???

I have yet to hear you demand and end to the use of personal vehicles or the filling in of swimming pools.

You're a monster.

How many dead kids does it take, Speaksoftly, before you demand an end to these tragedies?

#109 | Posted by madbomber

I have yet to hear you demonstrate the the brain power to understand the difference between personal risk and risking others via contagion.

#135 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 07:03 PM | Reply

I don't care either way.

#114 | Posted by madbomber

(because I'm a sociopath)

#136 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 07:03 PM | Reply

#133 but where's your data saying that prosecuting Deplorables doesn't fit the bill of "the country becoming more politically correct and upset that there are too many things people can't say anymore?"

That's the piece you're missing.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:03 PM | Reply

"The outcome of something you willingly choose is different than the outcome of something you were forced to do."

Also, what does this actually mean?
If I willingly pay my debts, vs. if my wages get garnished, how is the outcome any different?
I don't see the difference. Explain it to me.

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:05 PM | Reply

"I have yet to hear you demonstrate the the brain power to understand the difference between personal risk and risking others via contagion."

Have I taken personal risk if I am killed in a traffic accident, or was I inevitably posing a risk to others by driving?

#139 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:12 PM | Reply

"If I willingly pay my debts, vs. if my wages get garnished, how is the outcome any different?"

You're asking the wrong question.

The real question is whether you had the freedom to choose those debts in the first place. If you chose to take on debt, you're going to pay it. One way or another. You had that freedom.

The lack of freedom would you not being able to choose to take on debt in the first place.

#140 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:14 PM | Reply

"I have yet to hear you demonstrate the the brain power to understand the difference between personal risk and risking others via contagion."

Have I taken personal risk if I am killed in a traffic accident, or was I inevitably posing a risk to others by driving?

#139 | Posted by madbomber

Why aren't you allowed to drive drunk? It's a personal decision right? So why can't you drive drunk?

#141 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#133

I'm confused.

Shouldn't the government be telling people what they can and can't say?

#142 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:15 PM | Reply

"The real question is whether you had the freedom to choose those debts in the first place"

So long as the credit card company says I did, I did.
They are the ones who give me that freedom. It's not innate to my being. It's a financial construct of society.

"If you chose to take on debt, you're going to pay it. One way or another."
Not at all. I could decalre bankruptcy. I could get bailed out. I could get my debt forgiven.

What essential liberty did you surrender when you got vaccinated, MadBomber?

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:16 PM | Reply

"So why can't you drive drunk?"

I can drive drunk.

If I have a car and alcohol, I have all the prerequisites needed to drive drunk. The only way you eliminate this possibility is by eliminating access to cars or alcohol.

And just like drunk drivers, the only way you can avoid them is by staying off the road. Even that won't work 100% of the time.

The good news is that, unlike drunk driving, there is a vaccine for COVID. So you can expose the ---- out of yourself to potential COVID carriers.

Drunk drivers are still an issue though, so you should limit your exposure to public places where you might come into contact with a drunk driver.

#144 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:19 PM | Reply

"They are the ones who give me that freedom."

They enabled you to make a choice, but the choice was yours.

"What essential liberty did you surrender when you got vaccinated, MadBomber?"

None. I made the choice. I wanted the vaccine, and the doctor was willing to give me one. No one's free choice was violated.

My body, my choice.

#145 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 07:22 PM | Reply

"What essential liberty did you surrender when you got vaccinated, MadBomber?"

Then what's your Ben Franklin quote supposed to tell us?

"No one's free choice was violated."

And no one's is being violated by the vaccine mandate. You don't want the vaccine, you can quit your job. No one is forcing you.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 07:31 PM | Reply

#146

I agree completely.

I took it that you were suggesting that it should be the government driving the train on mandatory vaccinations. I have zero issues with businesses choosing what their employment policies are.

#147 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:05 PM | Reply

Back on topic for Southwest, there are people here in Vegas who've been on the ground since Saturday, and SWA is not reimbursing them for hotel expenses.

So...don't fly SWA. Evah.

#148 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:08 PM | Reply

"I took it that you were suggesting that it should be the government driving the train on mandatory vaccinations."

The government is driving the train on mandatory vaccinations.
Want to keep your government job? Get the vaccine.
Want to keep your private sector job subject to OSHA? Get the vaccine.

"I have zero issues with businesses choosing what their employment policies are."

Me either, just like I don't have issues with government choosing what employment policies are for companies over 100, via Department of Labor authority. Just like they enforce a zillion other employment policies, like break time and minimum wage, etc. Even drug testing for some private sector jobs is required by the Feds through DOT.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:12 PM | Reply

"Me either, just like I don't have issues with government choosing what employment policies are for companies over 100, via Department of Labor authority."

And that's where we differ on the issue of individual freedom.

I think that private enterprises of any number of people will decide their terms of employment. If they determine that all employees will be vaxxed, cool. If they don't care. Also cool. If they choose NOT to hire anyone who is vaxxed...that's their decision.

But there really is no value in requiring that an employee be vaxxed.

#150 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:18 PM | Reply

"I think that private enterprises of any number of people will decide their terms of employment."

As usual, what you think is not quite in tune with how the world works.

"But there really is no value in requiring that an employee be vaxxed."

Sure there is. It helps bring about the end the pandemic through herd immunity.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:21 PM | Reply

"If they choose NOT to hire anyone who is vaxxed...that's their decision."

If they choose not to operate a business any more because they don't like the government regulations, like having to pay a minimum wage, or requiring their employees get vaccinated, that's their decision too.

No one is being forced. It's all voluntary.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:22 PM | Reply

"And that's where we differ on the issue of individual freedom."

Presumably you refer to the individual freedom of the business owner, not the actual employee...

Business owners are encumbered by plenty of regulations. One more isn't going to hurt them. I might even support a policy where some other regulation is relaxed, in exchange for requiring vaccinations.

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:25 PM | Reply

"Sure there is. It helps bring about the end the pandemic through herd immunity."

So does exposure.

Are you in favor of that as well?

#154 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:27 PM | Reply

Are you stupid?

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:32 PM | Reply

I can drive drunk.

If I have a car and alcohol, I have all the prerequisites needed to drive drunk. The only way you eliminate this possibility is by eliminating access to cars or alcohol.

And just like drunk drivers, the only way you can avoid them is by staying off the road. Even that won't work 100% of the time.

#144 | Posted by madbomber

But you can MASSIVELY reduce the odds of that happening by making it illegal, heavily enforced, with steep penalties RIGHT STUPID?

What would happen to road fatalities if drunk driving were legalized? Do you need to see a study on that? There's obviously no limit on how oblivious to the obvious you'll pretend to be.

#156 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 08:50 PM | Reply

"Business owners are encumbered by plenty of regulations. One more isn't going to hurt them. I might even support a policy where some other regulation is relaxed, in exchange for requiring vaccinations."

That's completely irrational.

Not being vaxxed doesn't pose a threat to anyone.

Choosing not to get a vax only poses a threat to that person.

#157 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:51 PM | Reply

- how oblivious to the obvious you'll pretend to be.

Not convinced he's pretending.....

- Not being vaxxed doesn't pose a threat to anyone.

I rest my case.

#158 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-11 08:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not being vaxxed doesn't pose a threat to anyone."

It does, though.

Let's say your unvaxxed employer gets COVID and ends up in the hospital. Now you're down a worker. That's going to hurt your business. It might even raise your group rates when it's time to buy health insurance next year.

This is not even considering the drain on health care resources, which might affect you or anyone else who gets hit by a drunk driver, and the last ICU bed has your unvaxxed worker in it.

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:56 PM | Reply

"Choosing not to get a vax only poses a threat to that person."

No, it's a threat to the herd, because it diminishes herd immunity.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 08:56 PM | Reply

"Let's say your unvaxxed employer gets COVID and ends up in the hospital."

Do you mean "employee"

I don't disagree with you, which is one of many reasons I can understand why an employer would demand an employee be vaxxed.

But that has nothing to do with the government.

#161 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 08:58 PM | Reply

"This is not even considering the drain on health care resources, which might affect you or anyone else who gets hit by a drunk driver, and the last ICU bed has your unvaxxed worker in it."

That's a hospital policy. Easily solved by demanding that the hospital treat COVID patients via space available...if you're going to go authoritarian.

It might even have an impact if hospitals came out stating that unvaxxed COVID patients would be deprioritized.

#162 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:00 PM | Reply

"No, it's a threat to the herd, because it diminishes herd immunity."

As does limiting exposure.

If you're truly concerned about HM, you'd be in favor of not only lifting all COVID restrictions, but actually going so far as to encourage human interaction.

#163 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:01 PM | Reply

An unvaccinated person who is infected with COVID-19 poses a much greater risk to others who are also unvaccinated. But vaccines are not 100% effective, so there is a chance that an unvaccinated person could infect a vaccinated person " particularly the vulnerable, such as elderly and immunocompromised individuals.

www.factcheck.org

#164 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-11 09:03 PM | Reply

"But that has nothing to do with the government."

Biden decided to make it his business.
America is better for it. It's a huge win.

It's also a great boon to future employers. Now when the see a gap in employment history or change of career in late 2021, they'll know if the person applying for the job is a reasonable person who can follow reasonable rules, or if they're a douchebag twit.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:04 PM | Reply

"That's a hospital policy. Easily solved by demanding that the hospital treat COVID patients via space available"

That's not a realistic solution, even though you don't understand why.

#166 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:04 PM | Reply

"No, it's a threat to the herd, because it diminishes herd immunity."
As does limiting exposure.

True, but limiting exposure also buys time until a vaccine is available. In addition to reducing the overall death toll.

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:08 PM | Reply

#164

Got it.

The vaccine keeps you from getting sick. If you don't want to get sick, get vaxxed. If you're still at risk, you need to have that come to Jesus moment and decide what's important to you. Life and isolation, or risk and being part of a community. That's a question those individuals can only answer for themselves.

#168 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:20 PM | Reply

"Biden decided to make it his business. America is better for it. It's a huge win."

And you just answered your earlier question on trading liberty for safety.

The sad thing is, you're embracing authoritarianism for something that's almost insignificant. If you would give up freedom for COVID, what wouldn't you give it up for?

#169 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:24 PM | Reply

"That's not a realistic solution, even though you don't understand why."

I know.

But I would do the same for anyone who found themselves having to go to the hospital out of personal choice.

#170 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:25 PM | Reply

#168... is a lame obfuscation for the myth you stated about how, "Choosing not to get a vax only poses a threat to that person."

And here you could have chosen a small step on the path to myth-telling rehab.

#171 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-11 09:25 PM | Reply

"And you just answered your earlier question on trading liberty for safety."

Again, which liberty?
???

No one can make you get vaccinated.
What part of "no one can make you get vaccinated" don't you understand?

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:28 PM | Reply

"If you would give up freedom for COVID, what wouldn't you give it up for?"

What freedom have you and I given up for COVID?

#173 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:29 PM | Reply

You really just can't explain it, huh?
But you'll keep saying it...

#174 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 09:33 PM | Reply

But when given the choice between this (Trump) and a president whose tenure has mostly been a dumpster fire, and not looking to get any better, it's a very difficult decision to make

#44 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

MADBOMBER can't decide between the fascist and the non-fascist.

If you are in fact a commissioned officer, time to resign. The country does not need you.

#175 | Posted by Zed at 2021-10-11 09:42 PM | Reply

The vaccine keeps you from getting sick. If you don't want to get sick, get vaxxed. If you're still at risk, you need to have that come to Jesus moment and decide what's important to you. Life and isolation, or risk and being part of a community. That's a question those individuals can only answer for themselves.

#168 | Posted by madbomber

That's the exact choice the anti vaxxers should make - life in anti vax isolation, or protecting the society you're benefiting from by being vaccinated?

Anti vaxxers are an unnecessary risk to society. Not just risk, but COST to society. You dont have a right to make me spend to fix the consequences of your idiology of ignorance. You dont have the right to kill someone else's kid when it could have been avoided with a shot or mask. Your rights end where the health of others begins.

Just like you can smoke but you can't do it next to me in a restaurant. Keep your idiocy to yourself and live like the outcast you deserve to be.

#176 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 09:44 PM | Reply

#170 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2021-10-11 09:25 PM | FLAG: C-L-O-W-N

#177 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-11 09:46 PM | Reply

#168... is a lame obfuscation for the myth you stated about how, "Choosing not to get a vax only poses a threat to that person."

How stupid and brainwashed can some people be to make that statement?!

Infected people infect others. If they didn't, we wouldn't have a pandemic, seasonal flu, or any other communicable diseases.

#178 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-10-11 09:47 PM | Reply

"What freedom have you and I given up for COVID?"

You're missing the point.

Government has the right to suspend the constitution or limit individual freedom in the interest of national security. We can all agree that there are times when that is probably the only way to protect national security.

This is not one of those times. National Security has never been held at risk due to COVID. And if the slight risk to this country from COVID is significant enough to limit individual freedom, then what isn't.

COVID killed a bunch of old people who were dying of something else. Would you be equally supportive if government restricted the use of privately owned vehicles? Or banned the use of alcohol?

Both are far more deadly than COVID.

#179 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:47 PM | Reply

Everyday with madbomber is just like groundhogs day.

Trying to explain why people dying unnecessarily is a bad thing to a sociopath is starting to feel like a waste of time, since every day he starts with the exacts same broken record, easily destroyed arguments he used the day before. There's always a "most people dont die" "just a few dead kids" and "anti vaxxers should be free to make the world unsafe" thrown in.

#180 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 09:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Would you be equally supportive if government restricted the use of privately owned vehicles? Or banned the use of alcohol?

Both are far more deadly than COVID.

#179 | Posted by madbomber

Are those things ------- contagious and easily preventable moron?

#181 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-11 09:49 PM | Reply

"If you are in fact a commissioned officer, time to resign. The country does not need you."

And it needs you?

I would submit that I am far more representative of the average American than you are.

Maybe the country does not need you.

#182 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:49 PM | Reply

"Infected people infect others. If they didn't, we wouldn't have a pandemic, seasonal flu, or any other communicable diseases."

You can infect others whether you're vaxxed or not. It only matters if you're unvaxxed. And even then if you have some underlying condition.

#183 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:51 PM | Reply

"That's the exact choice the anti vaxxers should make - life in anti vax isolation, or protecting the society you're benefiting from by being vaccinated?"

We're saying the same thing. Get vaxxed and eliminate the risk, or don't and accept life with risk.

This is not a problem.

#184 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:52 PM | Reply

"Anti vaxxers are an unnecessary risk to society."

No they're not.

They're only a risk to themselves.

They pose no threat to those who are vaccinated.

#185 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:53 PM | Reply

"Trying to explain why people dying unnecessarily is a bad thing to a sociopath is starting to feel like a waste of time."

Is it really dying unnecessarily if you chose not to get vaxxed?

#186 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:54 PM | Reply

"Are those things ------- contagious and easily preventable moron?"

Your obsession with thinking that contagious things are more dangerous than non-contagious things is odd.

Eliminating drunk driving is also easily preventable. You just ban cars. Or alcohol or both.

And would you like to revisit swimming pools?

#187 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 09:56 PM | Reply

"What freedom have you and I given up for COVID?"

"You're missing the point."

I'm not missing it.

You're not making it.

I'll ask again, what liberty did you surrender when you got vaccinated?

#188 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 10:13 PM | Reply

I hope a dog bites your ignorant ass and you die in fear of rabies. You're an idiot.

#189 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-11 10:13 PM | Reply

- They pose no threat to those who are vaccinated.

Just like Trump; repeating the Big Lie after it has already been debunked in 164.

#190 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-11 10:17 PM | Reply

"I hope a dog bites your ignorant ass and you die in fear of rabies. You're an idiot."

I'm sorry. I don't understand your statement.

Are you saying you hope I get bit and die in fear of Rabies? Tollwut?

Fear of Rabies won't kill you. Rabies will

You don't even make sense.

#191 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 10:20 PM | Reply

"I'm not missing it."

You're right, Tovarisch.

Please forgive my occasional counter-revolutionary tendencies.

#192 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 10:22 PM | Reply

"Just like Trump; repeating the Big Lie after it has already been debunked in 164."

So...is the math wrong then?

#193 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 10:23 PM | Reply

Puh-lease. You know what you are.

#194 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-11 10:23 PM | Reply

I do

www.bing.com

#195 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 10:43 PM | Reply

Please forgive my occasional counter-revolutionary tendencies.
#192 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Think about what it means that you have strongly held beliefs and a Master's degree, yet you can't articulate your thoughts.

It ought to make you think you're a fraud, a charlatan.

#196 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 10:56 PM | Reply

"It ought to make you think you're a fraud, a charlatan."

Or that I'm trying to explain something to a person who lacks the intellectual capacity to comprehend what they're being being told.

That's OK.

Maybe you say the same of me.

#197 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-11 11:13 PM | Reply

"Or that I'm trying to explain something to a person who lacks the intellectual capacity to comprehend what they're being being told."

Then go ahead and explain it.

What liberty did you give up?

#198 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 11:19 PM | Reply

Be sure to explain how that liberty is "essential" in your response.

#199 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 11:21 PM | Reply

Please forgive my occasional counter-revolutionary tendencies.
#192 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

The man you quoted is a Revolutionary, MadBomber.

#200 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-11 11:26 PM | Reply

- So...is the math wrong then?

The math is the math... it's your myths that are, well, lies at this point.

An unvaccinated person who is infected with COVID-19 poses a much greater risk to others who are also unvaccinated. But vaccines are not 100% effective, so there is a chance that an unvaccinated person could infect a vaccinated person " particularly the vulnerable, such as elderly and immunocompromised individuals.
www.factcheck.org
#164 | POSTED BY CORKY

Of course, were it someone young in your family that is immunocompromised and infected by a vaxxed person... well, one supposes you would just say, "that's the math".

#201 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-11 11:34 PM | Reply

No they're not.

They're only a risk to themselves.

They pose no threat to those who are vaccinated.

#185 | Posted by madbomber

Then how come it's so much harder to get a hospital bed in a low vaccination state stupid?

#202 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-12 01:03 PM | Reply

Eliminating drunk driving is also easily preventable. You just ban cars. Or alcohol or both.

And would you like to revisit swimming pools?

#187 | Posted by madbomber

Ok moron - what happens to the economy if we ban cars? It collapses.

No what happens to the economy if we ban anti vaxxers? It improves.

Other than that yeah great comparison idiot.

#203 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-12 01:05 PM | Reply

Southwest sucks about half the time. But then again, everybody who flies Southwest already knows that. All cheapo airlines end up sucking. Just spend the extra $100 and avoid the garbage.

#204 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-10-12 02:52 PM | Reply

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