Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, October 13, 2021

The pace of the economic recovery hinges in part on workers returning to jobs that involve dealing with an unpredictable public. But many of those workers say increasingly combative customers - angry about everything from long wait times to mask mandates - have prompted them to quit.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Aggressive and violent clashes between customers and service workers over COVID safety protocols over the past nearly two years have led to prison sentences, fines and deaths.

Businesses have shut down in support of their employees. Some industries have provided self-defense classes and banded together on public awareness campaigns.

Workers in restaurants, bars, hotels (6.8%) and retail (4.7%) businesses quit at a higher rate in August than the record national rate (2.9%), new data from the Labor Department on Tuesday showed.

What they're saying: "I was extremely lucky to work in a place where the employer treated the employees well and everyone made excellent money. ... [Customers] did make me quit," former bartender who goes by Ash in West Virginia, tells Axios Today.

"What really hurts is that the same people whining about people on unemployment were the same people who would come in and treat the people actually working like [crap]," she continued, saying that she also moved to Michigan.

"[As] an essential business - [we] continued to work tirelessly through the entire pandemic ... All we ask for in return is empathy, courtesy and understanding," says Casey Carville, who runs a group of nonprofit veterinary clinics in Texas.

If consumer behavior doesn't improve, more workers may leave, putting the workers who stay at more risk of abuse and placing even greater challenges on businesses to operate.

Workers' fears would likely abate if more Americans get vaccinated and the risk of getting infected on the job declines. That would also allow businesses and local governments to ease up on mask mandates that workers are often tasked with enforcing.

The anti-vax/anti-mitigation crowd is actively sabotaging the US economy by terrorizing many front line workers, causing millions of people to choose their own sanity and safety over pulling in a paycheck that now feels like underwhelming combat pay. The abject selfishness and entitlement of folks like these are rotting away what's left of any notion of comity and community as they blindly assert the personal right to be outright -------- towards other Americans simply trying to serve them for a living.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-12 10:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So much for service workers being "essential" and "heros" I guess.

#2 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-10-12 11:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Agree.
One such example was some crazed hen that came over the counter of McDonald's because her fries were cold.

#3 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-10-13 10:56 AM | Reply

There was a story posted here recently about the group of women that put a beat down on a hostess who asked for proof of vaccination.

I would never again have a job dealing with the public.

#4 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-10-13 11:03 AM | Reply

So, is it "the public" or just the Trump cult? Virtually every confrontation I have seen has involved Trump cult members. Don't accuse "the public" when it only one specific angry mob who are causeing the problems because they see wearing a mask while shopping to be an invringement on their freedumbs. Due to that attempt by the author of that article to be non-partisan it turned into a misleading pile of crap.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-13 11:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

NYC Apple store security guard stabbed by customer over mask dispute
www.imore.com

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 11:11 AM | Reply

@#3 ... One such example was some crazed hen that came over the counter of McDonald's because her fries were cold. ...

That level of crazy has always been around. I had to deal with it when I worked in a store during the summer while I was at college.

But this current crop of anti-mitigation crazies is raising the problem to a level that seems to be at least an order of magnitude worse. They are quite more fierce in how they seem to object to reasonable requests.

At times I really wonder when they will start saying it is their freedom to go through red traffic lights....




#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 11:46 AM | Reply

Or their freedom to shoot you dead because you're wearing a mask.

#8 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-13 11:52 AM | Reply

People are being jerks right now. The mask thing is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot of rude pushback on service workers. I've seen people -------- one of two cashiers at the dollar store because they had to wait in line "too long" during the evening rush hour. Then capping off the bout of "Karenism" by belittling them because they have no backup. People seem to think they have a right to do that towards the minimum wage earners.
Most people aren't like that but enough are so that gig work looks better. Drop it on what you hope is the correct porch, snap a pic and run to the next.

Corporations need to step up and take the side of their storefront workers or get eaten by Amazon.

#9 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2021-10-13 11:58 AM | Reply

Lamp, here in S. Florida we already have a priveleged minority driving expensive cars, mostyly young and totally irresponsible, who apparently already do think it is their right. I don't know how it is in other parts of the country but down here the priveleged few do all sorts of things they know are wrong because our police aren't enforcing traffic laws. People pass you on I-95 doing over 100 mph, they run traffic lights, they will pull up to a very long line of drivers waiting their turn to enter I-95 and just cut in front of the line. This happens every single day and sometimes with police right there watching but they still do nothing. My theory, and one others I know who are both liberals and conservatives is that the police are pissed off about the prosecutions and firings of police for murdering people who they could have shot with impunity only a decade ago so they are basically on strike. We are still paying them but they are refusing to do a large part of their jobs. My older brother, who is an ultra-conservative living in Georgia brought the idea up to me and I have to say I agree with him. His own son is a former police officer and he agrees too.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-13 12:06 PM | Reply

#10

That is definitely true in Vegas too...which shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

#11 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-10-13 12:10 PM | Reply

Which also leads me to wonder, what kind of spiteful tactics do police forces in pretty much every other country use since they aren't permitted to murder with impunity?

It's almost as if our law enforcement culture might be slightly dysfunctional.

#12 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-10-13 12:12 PM | Reply

You lefties love your narratives and scape-goating. Customers have always been irascible and demanding. Fact is for a variety of reasons service is slow and with global supply chain disruptions wait times for goods have gotten absurd. On the other side of the coin people have gotten incredibly patient and understanding of these long delays. It's the new normal, at least for now.

#13 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 12:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"So, is it "the public" or just the Trump cult?"

It's the public. Anyone who thinks customers exhibiting abusive behavior towards workers are only Trump supporters has never worked with the public.

#14 | Posted by ScottE at 2021-10-13 12:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#13 ... Customers have always been irascible and demanding. ...

As I noted in #7.

So what is scape-goating about it?

Or do you think it is normal to stab a store security guard because you were asked to wear a mask to enter the store?

I've not seen a similar reaction to store requirements of shirts or shoes to enter the store.

#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 12:22 PM | Reply

@#14 ... It's the public. Anyone who thinks customers exhibiting abusive behavior towards workers are only Trump supporters has never worked with the public. ...

The problem is that it is not just retail workers.

The violence, threats and intimidating behavior is also being exhibited towards other workers trying to enforce anti-mitigation procedures, e.g., members of local education boards.

#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 12:38 PM | Reply

#15. That is anecdotal, first off. And anecdotes of similar behavior pre-COVID are abundant.

#17 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 12:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

" So what is scape-goating about it?"

See #1 and #5

#18 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 12:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

This issue is more nuanced than it appears. The author mentioned important facts that better illuminate the current situation. Since the pandemic hit, many people with the means have either stopped going out to retail establishments or will only visit places where they feel safer - ie. businesses that put public health at the forefront of their practices. I and millions of other Americans have now become accustomed to having almost everything delivered to our homes due to the very reason we see how the "freedumb" crowd has now claimed it their "right" to inhabit most public spaces sans mitigation, places I refuse to be around.

So yes, a great deal of the open hostility shown to workers dealing with in person customers is an offshoot of the same "freedumb" movement underpinning anti-vax sentiments, claiming public spaces as their god-given own regardless of their effect on other people - whose rights they no longer care about nor consider when doing so conflicts with their own desires.

The emphasis on the individual - amplified during this crisis which affects everyone to varying degrees - has seeped into normal aspects of public life in general, and it's driven by the same selfish ethos - what "I" want or desire supersedes the concerns of others that might be affected by my actions and decisions. Comity, community, and even common decency have become optional depending upon how any individual feels in any given moment.

And yes, in many ways our law enforcement authorities have not only shown no interest in upholding laws and regulations, they themselves exhibit the same behaviors and ethos found in those acting aggressively in public often without suffering any immediate consequences whatsoever.

Such is how societies break down into social decay leading to eventual widespread unrest.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 12:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#17 That is anecdotal, first off. ...

I don't see what is anecdotal about it...

NYPD: Apple Store Security Guard Stabbed, Slashed By Customer Who Refused To Wear Mask
newyork.cbslocal.com

...A mask dispute led to an attack inside an Apple Store in Manhattan on Friday.

It happened at the Apple Store on 14th Street and Ninth Avenue in the Meatpacking District around 6:45 p.m.

Police say a customer was asked to wear a mask, but he refused and allegedly stabbed a security guard in the stomach and arm and slashed him on the head....


#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 12:54 PM | Reply

@#18 ... See #1 and #5 ...

I saw those posts earlier.

What I did not see was an explanation why you might think those posts are scape-goating.



#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 12:56 PM | Reply

#21 to me, those posts blame irascible customers for our economic malaise when reality is any increase in customer's behaving badly is far more driven by a reaction to a precipitous drop in service and availability of goods.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 01:01 PM | Reply

Tony Roma,

Here's a bit of unsolicited advice - if you want to be persuasive and be taken seriously desist using "freedumb" as if our liberties are antiquated concepts because, __________(insert crisis here).

You make some good points however you diminish them by diminishing concerns and consternation over massive power grabs in the name of "public good."

#23 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 01:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

@#22 ... when reality is any increase in customer's behaving badly is far more driven by a reaction to a precipitous drop in service and availability of goods. ...

Is that the real reality, or the alternate reality that the right seems to be proffering so much of late?

That reality also does not explain why Trump supporters have been acting badly in so many other venues when things do not go their way, e.g., as I mentioned earlier, local education board meetings.

While I would agree that the public in general has had a minority that reacts poorly to some events, I have also seen a marked increase in violence, threats and intimidation coming from Trump supporters, and directed at public and private officials and employees for no other reason than they seem to disagree.

#24 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 01:12 PM | Reply

#21 to me, those posts blame irascible customers for our economic malaise when reality is any increase in customer's behaving badly is far more driven by a reaction to a precipitous drop in service and availability of goods.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger

Trumps cult behaves like sociopaths because they are emulating their leader.

Trump made it OK, even admirable, to behave like an -------.

Elect an ------- leader, the country will head in the direction of everyone becoming -------s. It's not rocket science.

One hell of a role model you put up on a pedestal in front of our kids -------.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 01:17 PM | Reply

" as I mentioned earlier, local education board meetings."

That's not a "Trump supporter" thing, first off. Quick question, do you have a poster child for the terrible actions of these parents?

#26 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 01:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

There are lots of types of people who dont want to get vaxxed - trump cult morons, people with weak immune systems, minorities who dont trust the government, hippies who dont trust anything from a lab...

But only ONE of those groups attacks people in public, throws tantrums on planes, goes and gets their gun from their truck, rips the mask off people's faces...

Guess which one that is.

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 01:20 PM | Reply

#23

Please keep your advice to yourself. The day I take advice from you will never come.

As for my use of "freedumb" I explained it quite nicely. If you weren't a self-absorbed stunod, you might have noticed that my use of the term was not partisan-exclusive. My point is that personal public displays of selfishness has become far more obtrusive and regular than it was before the pandemic, and you yourself have admitted that stresses from this crisis has negatively changed the behavior of many.

The public good as it regards public health induced governmental regulations has been settled law since 1905. It has yet to be overturned. Everyone claiming that anything being done today is somehow against the law doesn't know the law.

So as it regards the public good and state and local government's power to dictate health initiatives during times of pandemic, it is you who needs a primer on the truth. No one is "grabbing power" when government tries to maintain the health of its constituents. Life and health are the only things governments are trying to promote and they gain no permanent extra powers by doing so. They are protecting the public from others who will spread disease through their own obstinance and refusal to voluntarily contribute to the public good - which is the foundation of everyone's freedom.

#28 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Hear, hear. The voice of reason. Tonyroma I'm with you. Your arguments are superb.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-13 01:26 PM | Reply

#28 | Posted by tonyroma

No matter how many times you explain it to him, he'll return tomorrow as if it's never been explained to him before.

Trying to explain human compassion to a sociopath is like trying to describe the color blue to a person born without sight. Waste of time.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" While I would agree that the public in general has had a minority that reacts poorly to some events, I have also seen a marked increase in violence, threats and intimidation coming from Trump supporters, and directed at public and private officials and employees for no other reason than they seem to disagree."

Can you substantiate that increase with any kind of number and does said number ignore the tremendous left wing violence of 2020?

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 01:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

" As for my use of "freedumb" I explained it quite nicely. If you weren't a self-absorbed stunod, you might have noticed that my use of the term was not partisan-exclusive. My point is that personal public displays of selfishness has become far more obtrusive and regular than it was before the pandemic, and you yourself have admitted that stresses from this crisis has negatively changed the behavior of many."

That's a non-sequitur. You define "selfishness" as opposing what certain people demand you do to your own body.

I'm fully vaccinated, BTW.

People in this country push back against authoritarianism. The more the heavy hand comes crashing down the more people resist. Figure out a better way of getting people to vaccinating without trying to denigrate them into doing so.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 01:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

People in this country push back against authoritarianism.

#32 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

That's not what the Republican Party does any more.

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2021-10-13 01:56 PM | Reply

Figure out a better way of getting people to vaccinating without trying to denigrate them into doing so.

#32 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

True story, and a local one: The Trumpite nurse lying that most people in her hospital that die of COVID have both vaccinations.

I'd love to be nice to this witch. But she is a witch.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2021-10-13 01:59 PM | Reply

People in this country push back against authoritarianism.

#32 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

The more I think about this the funnier you get.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2021-10-13 01:59 PM | Reply

#35 I am glad you find it amusing.

#36 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#32 ... People in this country push back against authoritarianism. ...

I agree that Democrats, most Independents and some Republicans are pushing back against authoritarianism.

However, there are still many supporters of fmr Pres Trump in and leading the republican party who continue to support authoritarianism.


#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 02:04 PM | Reply

You define "selfishness" as opposing what certain people demand you do to your own body.

No I do not and I never have. Thanks for confirming that you indeed are a stunod.

People have every right to do whatever is within the law - in the confines of their own homes where their decisions affect no one but themselves. People do not have the right to enter public spaces and potentially infect others with a widely preventable disease when the government will pay for preventative medicine that almost insures the disease will not be spread further - particularly to those who cannot take the preventative medicine due to their own health conditions.

Our government was formed to protect and promote life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is what regulating public health is completely about - life and health.

In your parlance, actively trying to stop suicide would qualify as an authoritarian overreach by government.

And let's be straight for the last time: People have every right to control whatever they put into their bodies. People DO NOT have the right to enter into public spaces and endanger the health and welfare of others who are taking reasonable precautions to protect themselves from getting sick or dying from a novelcoronavirus that has killed 700,000+ Americans over the last 18 months. You have the freedom to stay at home. If you want to enter public spaces then government has the right to protect vulnerable citizens from the recklessness and selfishness of those who'd willingly continue to publicly spread a virus by refusing to voluntarily protect themselves and others.

Again, settled law, not authoritarianism, it's government's responsibility. It's incredible that those like you continue to talk about rights without ever speaking to responsibilities. What responsibility does any individual have to the rest of us in society? None?

If those unwilling to mitigate (notice, non-vaxxed can wear masks and take non-medical precautions to also stop the spread of disease, but most don't) want to talk about their freedom, then they should take sole responsibility for their fates should them become infected - eschewing all medical/pharmaceutical help and/or paying for all of their care themselves since they refused the recommended preventative care offered to them for free.

What price should those exercising their freedom be forced to pay because I'm sick and tired of paying for it with my own inability to safely and freely traverse public spaces due the health decisions they make for themselves which might negatively impact me?

#38 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 02:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#38 The vaxxed and the young face negligible risk from the unvaxxed.

I'd like to see an actual law passed through normal means - passes both houses and is signed by POTUS.

Further - if the goal is getting as many people vaxxed as possible should we not try and evaluate which methods have the highest likelihood of success?

#39 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If those unwilling to mitigate (notice, non-vaxxed can wear masks and take non-medical precautions to also stop the spread of disease, but most don't) want to talk about their freedom, then they should take sole responsibility for their fates should them become infected - eschewing all medical/pharmaceutical help and/or paying for all of their care themselves since they refused the recommended preventative care offered to them for free."

Does that apply to people who are obese? What about people who contract HIV as a result of promiscuous and unprotected sex? Where do we draw the line?

#40 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I agree that Democrats, most Independents and some Republicans are pushing back against authoritarianism.

Oh, that's how you see it.

Independents push back against authoritarianism by far the most. Democrats and Republicans are closely split with Republicans currently pushing back a bit more over the past decade.

#41 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"You define "selfishness" as opposing what certain people demand you do to your own body."

I can't make you wipe your ass.
But it's not selfish to demand that you do.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-13 02:27 PM | Reply

Can you substantiate that increase with any kind of number and does said number ignore the tremendous left wing violence of 2020?

#31 | Posted by BellRinger

Another day, another effort by an old poster hiding under a new username to pretend that a protests against government assassinating citizens without trial is the same as riots inspired by the lies of a criminal fascist con man.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:30 PM | Reply

Independents push back against authoritarianism by far the most. Democrats and Republicans are closely split with Republicans currently pushing back a bit more over the past decade.

#41 | Posted by BellRinger

Oh yeah. The side that is trying to end democracy and the side trying to save it are "evenly split" about authoritarianism.

Totally.

moron.

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:31 PM | Reply

#38 The vaxxed and the young face negligible risk from the unvaxxed.

#39 | Posted by BellRinger

Same lie. New day.

So why are low vax states having to ship hospital patients to high vax states?

moron.

#45 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:32 PM | Reply

People in this country push back against authoritarianism.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger

How many candidates from the party that is replacing democracy with fascism do you plan on voting for in the next election?

#46 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:33 PM | Reply

@#41 ... Oh, that's how you see it. ...

In the current political scenario, yes.

The most likelihood emergence of authoritarian rule in the Country nowadays will be a result of fmr Pres Trump and his supporters.


#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 02:34 PM | Reply

Does that apply to people who are obese? What about people who contract HIV as a result of promiscuous and unprotected sex? Where do we draw the line?

Talk about non sequiturs, smh. Do any of those mentioned above pose a threat to the general public by simply breathing and expelling a potentially lethal pathogen which can silently enter the bodies of others, infecting them without their knowledge?

Again, the issue is a worldwide pandemic and its spread through airborne particulates that others breath in, not STDs nor eating disorders.

#48 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#48

Sorry - moved the goalposts a bit.

I was specifically responding to this:

"If those unwilling to mitigate (notice, non-vaxxed can wear masks and take non-medical precautions to also stop the spread of disease, but most don't) want to talk about their freedom, then they should take sole responsibility for their fates should them become infected - eschewing all medical/pharmaceutical help and/or paying for all of their care themselves since they refused the recommended preventative care offered to them for free."

This specifically talked about denying healthcare (to the extent it's publicly funded) to the unvaxxed.

#49 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Another day, another effort by an old poster hiding under a new username to pretend that a protests against government assassinating citizens without trial is the same as riots inspired by the lies of a criminal fascist con man.

#43 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-10-13 02:30 PM"

Riots are riots. Looting is looting. Arson is arson. Felony assault is felony assault. Homicide is homicide.

All of those are indefensible. It's a straightforward concept, really.

#50 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#45 Follow the science. Unvaccinated children are at lower risk due to exposure to COVID than vaxxed elderly.

#51 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 02:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#50 ... Riots are riots. Looting is looting. Arson is arson. Felony assault is felony assault. Homicide is homicide.

All of those are indefensible. It's a straightforward concept, really. ...

"The Illinois Republican also blasted a counter-narrative to the Jan. 6 committee that argues similar actions were not taken in response to last summer's unrest.

Kinzinger said he was called to serve during last year's protests as an Air National Guardsman, and condemned the riots that resulted. However, he said that he never thought the future of self-governance was at stake.

'Not once did I ever feel like the future of self-governance was threatened like I did on January 6,' Kinzinger said.

'There's a difference between breaking the law, even rejecting the rule of law. Between a crime -- even grave crimes -- and a coup,' he continued."

- - - Rep Kinzinger, July 27, 2021, during hearing of United States House Select Committee on the January 6 Attack


#52 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 02:50 PM | Reply

"Unvaccinated children are at lower risk due to exposure to COVID than vaxxed elderly."

Lower risk for what? Passing viral loads? Long-haul conditions? Greater number of hosts for variants?

Or are we now pretending the ONLY negative outcome that counts is death?

#53 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 02:50 PM | Reply

Riots are riots.

#50 | Posted by BellRinger

Oh so a riot over a cop killing an unarmed man is morally and ethically the same as a riot over blacks being allowed to attend white schools?

You wish.

Your cult's only strategy is to pretend ethics don't exist. There is no good and evil. No difference between fighting for justice or fighting for fascism.

#54 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:57 PM | Reply

#45 Follow the science. Unvaccinated children are at lower risk due to exposure to COVID than vaxxed elderly.

#51 | Posted by BellRinger

You didn't answer the question so I'll ask it again - why were low vaccination states shipping patients to high vaccination states? Tourism?

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 02:58 PM | Reply

Forgot the link for #52...

Kinzinger gets emotional: Difference between a 'crime' and a 'coup'
thehill.com

#56 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-13 02:58 PM | Reply

Democrats and Republicans are closely split with Republicans currently pushing back a bit more over the past decade.

#41 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

LOL the Repubs ARE the authoritarians.

Who else has spend the last year gutting democratic institutions because they can't win on ideas?

#57 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-13 03:11 PM | Reply

Gutting Democratic institutions?

2000 - "Selected, not elected!"
2004 - "Diebold!"
2016 - the litany of trashing Democratic institutions is far too long to even list.

#58 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 03:13 PM | Reply

All of those are indefensible. It's a straightforward concept, really.

#50 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

And bringing it up is a giant straw filled pile of deflection.

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-13 03:13 PM | Reply

#58 you're saying 2000 was entirely proper?

Or that it even pales in comparison to states taking over the power to control outcomes of elections in partisan fashions?

GTfOOH.

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-13 03:14 PM | Reply

Or are we now pretending the ONLY negative outcome that counts is death?

#53 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

For the self centered freedumz crowd it is.

Otherwise they can still demand they get top notch healthcare and social services to assist with their damaged heart, kidneys and lungs. And if they don't? Long haulers will just be another group for them to hate on.

#61 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-13 03:16 PM | Reply

2016 - the litany of trashing Democratic institutions is far too long to even list.

#58 | Posted by BellRinger

Yeah because trump trashed them. Starting with colluding with enemy nations to get elected.

how come putin funds the GOP and tried to elect trump twice? Do you think putin wants what is good for america?

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-13 03:20 PM | Reply

This specifically talked about denying healthcare (to the extent it's publicly funded) to the unvaxxed.

To an extent. Again, the question is what responsibility comes with any individual expressing their personal "freedom" when it comes times for the rest of society to be affected by their decisions?

But my point is not to "deny" anything to anyone. You use the same false comparisons over and over. If a person claims the right NOT to take a publicly-provided preventative medication - which costs $20/dose - that protects both them and the rest of us from a virus, then why should the rest of us - as taxpayers - be responsible for paying for a $2000/dose therapeutic drug when the contract the virus? Isn't it their SOLE responsibility to bear the costs of their decision?

Where is MY freedom not to pay for the poor decisions of others who refused available preventatives and then caught a disease? Since when does their "freedom" include any responsibility to the rest of us to subsidize it?

Again, since when did freedom not come with the attendant "personal responsibility" for dealing with the results of exercising said freedom?

And this is especially germane because the vast bulk of these people claiming their "freedom" are the very ones who view many public policies as encroaching "socialism" when they involve helping people they don't like or philosophically agree with. Talk about a hypocritical viewpoint.

#63 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 03:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#39 | Posted by BellRinger

---- off, ------.

#64 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-13 04:27 PM | Reply

Or do you think it is normal to stab a store security guard because you were asked to wear a mask to enter the store?
I've not seen a similar reaction to store requirements of shirts or shoes to enter the store.
#15 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

It's not unheard of for someone who got kicked out of a bar to come back with a gun. It happened on my block when I lived in Seattle.

Now, it's spread beyond bars.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-13 05:34 PM | Reply

"one specific angry mob who are causeing the problems because they see wearing a mask while shopping to be an invringement on their freedumbs. Due to that attempt by the author of that article to be non-partisan it turned into a misleading pile of crap.
#5 | POSTED BY DANNI"

EVERYONE ignores the masks mandates now - from Blue cities to the rural areas that never used them. Walk around NYC - not a mask in sight. The only ones still whining about people wearing masks are politicians and people on this website that live in their basement bunkers and have not experienced real life in the past 6 months. Masks were a thing 4-5 months ago. Now, it is unmasked faces as the normal and it has no connection whatsoever to political party. Watch a football game - hundreds of thousands of unmasked fans.

#66 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-13 09:07 PM | Reply

EVERYONE ignores the masks mandates now

Not in my world. Have not seen an unmasked person indoors in public in months.

#67 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-10-13 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's anecdotal but I'm not seeing much in the way of mask wearing these days.

Honestly, I think people are just fed up.

#68 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 09:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It's anecdotal but I'm not seeing much in the way of mask wearing these days.
#68 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER"

Like I said, I think the liberal belief that everyone is still masking is a result of them living bunker lives and not actually interacting in the real world for the last 6 months. So, rather than actually walking around and seeing the unmasked faces, they continue to believe that the unmasked are a dangerous, outlier breed that must be forced to comply because that is the narrative the MSM is pushing.

Look at any city in CA, look at NYC - unmasked faces are by far the norm - especially among the young people.

#69 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-13 09:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#68 | Posted by BellRinger
#69 | Posted by Skeptical

I hope you are both right, I'm looking forward to a Flu/COVID culling this fall and winter.

I'm not picky, I'd like more GQP types to die but if I get 50/50 I'll be happy.

#70 | Posted by billy_boy at 2021-10-13 09:33 PM | Reply

Hey dummy, we're well aware people aren't wearing masks.

That was a critical aspect of the delta wave.

#71 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-13 09:37 PM | Reply

#68 | Posted by BellRinger
#69 | Posted by Skeptical

Has the CDC/NIH or any state health organization EVER publicly called for non-vaccinated people to go unmasked in public indoor settings? Was there EVER a recommendation for the non-vaccinated to ignore mitigation protocols when in public settings?

Outdoors, during the summer season, unless people are closely packed together, of course you see most not wearing masks any longer. But as Billy_Boy notes, summer is over and winter is around the corner. And those who refuse to wear masks in indoor public settings will likely fuel a twindemic of both a rise in flu and covid infections.

I live in a deep red state but many of my Republican friends understand that viruses aren't political, they're infectious pathogens with the ability to sicken and kill. Even though I'm fully vaccinated and days away from being fully-boosterized (my booster shot was around 9 days ago) I've continued to wear a mask when indoors among any people I do not know and when I see others wearing their masks (about 30-40% of those I encounter) I see people who care as much as I do about stopping the spread of the virus - especially as delta washed across this nation.

I don't say a word to non masked wearers nor act differently towards them. But I don't want them around me nor in my airspace. I demand the freedom not to breathe what unmasked non-vaccinated persons spew out.

#72 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 09:52 PM | Reply

I'm fully vaccinated and even if I were unvaxxed I'm low risk.

I am not masking unless specifically required to do so (airport, doctor's office, etc) , or if it's a situation where it's the polite thing to do given the people I am around.

Before the vaccines I complied with mandatory masking. It sucked, but I did it.

Cloth masks have very little effectiveness. Mandating them is one factor that angers people on the fence about getting the shot.

#73 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 10:05 PM | Reply

"even if I were unvaxxed I'm low risk."

To whom?

Or is the guy in the mirror the only one in your equation?

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 10:05 PM | Reply

"Cloth masks have very little effectiveness."

Purposeful misinformation can be deadly.

Back before a vaccine was on the horizon, 60 Minutes did a segment interviewing all the leading scientists in the COVID field. At the end of the segment, Scott Pelley revealed the most stunning thing he discovered: when asked which they would choose, either a mask or a vaccine, EVERY scientist answered the same:

"A mask."

Purposeful misinformation can be deadly. Please be careful what you claim.

#75 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 10:11 PM | Reply

"Mandating them is one factor that angers people..."

Ask them if they can define "asymptomatic contagion".

If they can, ask where in the Constitution they have the right to infect others. If they can't define it, eff 'em and send 'em home.

#76 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 10:13 PM | Reply

Your cult's only strategy is to pretend ethics don't exist. There is no good and evil. No difference between fighting for justice or fighting for fascism.

#54 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

And they accuse "liberals" of "moral relativism"!

#77 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2021-10-13 10:19 PM | Reply

Cloth masks have very little effectiveness.

Properly used, they are far better than no mask at all.

I haven't used a cloth mask since this pandemic started. Early on, I had an N95-lined sports mask - not one that would be used by healthcare personnel. Since earlier this year, I've been wearing nothing but N95 masks - of the non-surgical variety.

The delta variant is not effectively stopped by cloth masks only - but again ANY mask is better at mitigating viral spread than none at all. But N95's are easily obtained and I don't leave home without a supply of them to share with my friends who aren't aware that better protecting masks are now ubiquitous.

#78 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 10:23 PM | Reply

#76 I agree with what you are saying.

I am simply pointing out that if the ultimate goal is to get as many people jabbed as possible we should take into account actions that likely push some away from getting jabbed.

Or is the guy in the mirror the only one in your equation?

#74 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I get where you are going with that. So, I am going to turn that around a bit. When it comes to overall public health is that exclusively defined by COVID outcomes? Mental health, depression, substance abuse, domestic violence.....mandated masking and mandated social distancing and absolutely mandated lockdowns all had an adverse effect on those other important issues I just listed. Throw in loss of livelihoods, overall economic suffering and probably most importantly (the greater effects of which will probably take more than a decade to fully realize) the stunting of critical developmental years of our children, who are at extremely low risk to COVID (in school learning has never shown to be a super-spreader event that I've seen) and if we are going to take a big picture look at this it really needs to be across-the-board.

Back before a vaccine was on the horizon, 60 Minutes did a segment interviewing all the leading scientists in the COVID field. At the end of the segment, Scott Pelley revealed the most stunning thing he discovered: when asked which they would choose, either a mask or a vaccine, EVERY scientist answered the same:

"A mask."

Did those scientists make any differentiation between the different types of masks? Again, from everything I've read, cloth masks do very little.

#79 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 10:26 PM | Reply

I've read that this may be morphing into an endemic. If that happens, at what point do we just accept that this virus is another risk of living and revert our behavior back to where we shake hands and hug one another? Where we don't dress up like bank-robbers as a matter of perpetual risk mitigation? Do we just add the COVID shot to the annual Flu shot and live our lives?

#80 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 10:30 PM | Reply

#80

When R0 equals or is less than 1.

#81 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 10:36 PM | Reply

"When it comes to overall public health is that exclusively defined by COVID outcomes? Mental health, depression, substance abuse, domestic violence"

Well, I appreciate you admitting death isn't the only negative outcome. A bit late to the party, though.

"from everything I've read, cloth masks do very little."

Droplets equate to load, or at least it did with Original Recipe Covid. Think "sneezes", photographed under special light, with vs without a mask; there's your difference. It's a turn of the macro dial.

#82 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 10:37 PM | Reply

"we should take into account actions that likely push some away from getting jabbed."

Like being lied to by politicians "we" vote for?

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-13 10:42 PM | Reply

Serious question Bellringer: Did you catch the flu or have a bad cold last winter?

If you didn't, did that make you happy?

Reality is not as draconian as you make it out to be. I've been mask-free when around friends that I know are vaccinated and especially when around only a person or two. But I still find myself keeping a little distance between us, though we do hug and touch but keeping our faces away from each other.

I'm hyper-aware of airspace and airflow. I'll converse unmasked with a small group of strangers in a well aerated room, but not among a large group of strangers like those found in stores. But COVID or no, I already decided that I'll continue to wear masks in stores and in groups of people during the winter flu seasons moving forward.

Good lord, I never understood why so many urban-dwelling Asians always wear masks in public settings. Now I get it, and yes, as a society they are far more logically aware than we've been in this regards.

#84 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 10:45 PM | Reply

Serious question Bellringer: Did you catch the flu or have a bad cold last winter?

I did not. I've only had respiratory flu once in my life. But, most years I do catch a cold. It's annoying and when it comes on usually that first day I feel pretty run down. After that, it's the annoying symptoms that last for at least a week.

I think we, as a society, need to figure out how to strike a happy medium. It used to be that people who had a cold went to work anyway. COVID did force an economic realignment that may pay economic dividends in the long term - ZOOM, working from home....people can still work during a cold without infecting their co-workers and further, companies can downsize their corporate offices and save some serious bling. Silver lining, I guess.

#85 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 10:54 PM | Reply

Silver lining, I guess.

Maybe, but I call it evolution. I wrote about this in Feb./March of last year. It's not because I'm prescient, it's because I pay attention to history and apply logic and common sense.

Global pandemics are seismic events. They are one of the few conditions outside of World Wars and catastrophic natural disasters that can affect most everyone at the same time even though lingering effects happenly locally and over longer stretches of time.

Long story short, our economy had no alternative but to change for the new reality. Some businesses had to die and others were created for the first time. It's economic Darwinism and many businesses are struggling to adapt to the reality of workers having more leverage than they do for the first time in decades.

But another reality has always been this: If everyone on the planet would have effectively worn a mask when in public for around 6-8 weeks, we could have killed the spread of the virus long ago. If you take away new hosts, viruses die. This is why "lockdowns" were tried in the first place. But those refusing to effectively mitigate made sure that such efforts would fail.

#86 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 11:06 PM | Reply

... happen locally and over longer stretches of time.

#87 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 11:07 PM | Reply

#86 I mostly agree with that. Here is where I disagree:

"If everyone on the planet would have effectively worn a mask when in public for around 6-8 weeks, we could have killed the spread of the virus long ago."

First and foremost, such a claim makes a lot of assumptions that are simply not realistic. Most notably, by the time it was really known what we were dealing with such mitigation efforts would have been too late. Further, it assumes more efficacy of masks than is realistic. Once Pandora's box was opened....

I am not trying to nitpick - most of what you said in that post was very well articulated.

#88 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-13 11:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Most notably, by the time it was really known what we were dealing with such mitigation efforts would have been too late.

Not at all. You still don't get it. The virus only spreads if it can find new hosts to infect. Take away hosts, kill the virus. The 6-8 week timeframe allows for those already or newly infected that aren't destined to die to recover, and if the virus is unable to find any new hosts, it will die out from circulation.

Of course, coordinated world-wide mitigation is impossible. That's where vaccines come in. They are the only practical way to remove billions of potential hosts from spreading the infection. Vaccines don't have to work forever, they only need to be effective long enough for the virus to reach an R0 of 1 or less. And if annual shots are necessary to keep said spread at or below R0, that's a small price to pay in comparison to the last 18 months.

#89 | Posted by tonyroma at 2021-10-13 11:57 PM | Reply

#89 I get the basic science and biology behind your argument. I'm just saying that once the worms were out of the can a global pandemic was pretty much inevitable. Human history is littered with events like this. Although this is the first time that this may have been exacerbated via 'gain of function' and other human meddling that made this particular virus more transmissible than ones in the past that were organic.

In hindsight, maybe extreme measures could have been taken early on, globally and with at least some realistic disclosure from China, that could have really slowed this...but it didn't happen. So, how to best move forward....I don't pretend to have the answers other than never-ending lockdowns is not an option (I'm not suggesting that is what you are advocating).

#90 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 12:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I think what Tony is saying is that if Trump had not made a political point out of COVID and instead just treated it as a disease to be feared. we could have already freed ourselves from this pandemic but since he did, politicizing things like masks, he has insured that we will deal with this plague for decades. Didn't have to be this way. No previous President has ever fought against science like Trump did. Every COVID death today is blood on the hands of Donald Trump. What a disgusting piece of filth he really is. And to the Trump addicts, who support him no matter what he does, I just say this. Listen to your leader and then go die quietly, alone, not in our hospitals, not risking the health of our healthcare professionals. No just go away and follow your President, who got him and his wife vaccinated back in December, and see if he even gives a crap when you die from COVID. Simple answer: he does not give a crap if you die.

#91 | Posted by danni at 2021-10-14 08:32 AM | Reply

Cloth masks have very little effectiveness. Mandating them is one factor that angers people on the fence about getting the shot.

#73 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

False.

They're not as effective as N95s (duh) or surgical masks but they do decrease transmission. As with other types of masks, the level of efficacy is dependent on how well they fit.

#92 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-14 10:29 AM | Reply

I've read that this may be morphing into an endemic. If that happens, at what point do we just accept that this virus is another risk of living and revert our behavior back to where we shake hands and hug one another? Where we don't dress up like bank-robbers as a matter of perpetual risk mitigation? Do we just add the COVID shot to the annual Flu shot and live our lives?

#80 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It will become endemic. We're well past the ability to eradicate at this point.

The mutation rate is significantly lower than influenza, meaning the frequency of new strains arising is lower and will take longer. Also less likely to have enough divergence to significantly evade existing immunity.

In a year or two the primary risk for severe disease will be for those who are immunosuppressed- the very young, the elderly and those with medical conditions. The current mitigation measures will not be in place in perpetuity.

My guess is that after this winter we'll sporadic outbreaks in pockets of low immunity and, absent a new variant, will see this level out as a seasonal pathogen this time next year.

#93 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-14 10:34 AM | Reply

I think what Tony is saying is that if Trump had not made a political point out of COVID and instead just treated it as a disease to be feared. we could have already freed ourselves from this pandemic but since he did, politicizing things like masks, he has insured that we will deal with this plague for decades.

I'm by no means a Trumper and I by no means held back in blasting his non-response to COVID.

But the above is so far into wishful thinking territory that it's just funny to read.

The chance of eradication was always slim. It would have required GLOBAL (real global, not just our limited view of global) response that was completely, utterly perfect.

But what didn't have to happen was overloading of medical infrastructure and deaths of people who chose COVID over vaccination.

#94 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-14 11:01 AM | Reply

I think this excerpt from the original article is the most telling:

Because consumers were so used to a "frictionless economy" before the pandemic, there was no tolerance for a slowdown in services as businesses opened back up, says Melissa Swift, U.S. Transformation Leader at Mercer, a consulting firm.

Class, she says, also comes into play.

"Technology has insulated the upper classes from the physical labor that enables their lifestyle," she said.

If you notice, most of the "Karen's" out there appear to be from America's upper-class.

OCU

#95 | Posted by OCUser at 2021-10-14 11:46 AM | Reply

"If you notice, most of the "Karen's" out there appear to be from America's upper-class."

They're certainly not from the laboring class.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:51 AM | Reply

During the first pandemic surge, I was at Home Depot. HUGE signs at the door reading "MASKS REQUIRED."

Of course a bunch of customers were walking around without masks like nothing's wrong. When I asked a couple of cashiers why they weren't enforcing the mask mandate, they replied that corporate told them not to.

Why? Because some Trump fluffing moron shot a Home Depot associate in another state who confronted him about not wearing a mask.

This pandemic has proven just how many millions of selfish morons who don't care about anyone there are in America. And they don't even care enough about themselves to do something so simple to protect themselves.

#97 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-10-14 03:39 PM | Reply

For the past fifteen years I have owned and operated a successful retail business. Despite being on the the few industries which thrived during Covid, I am so sock and tired of the overall treatment by my customer base, I'm considering cashing out. I'm tired of being on the receiving end of the chronic barrage of BS. Sure I could tell them to fry ice, but doing so impacts my revenue stream. So I'm left suffering these sling and arrows to the point where I want nothing to do with this anymore.

Moreover, I am genuinely surprised I have not had any attrition among my employees over the last year. At least I have a vested long-term interest. Perhaps paying them well and confronting the worst of the customers in front of them has earned some loyalty.

#98 | Posted by SunTzuMeow at 2021-10-14 06:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe its time for those Second Amendment Remedies that Republicans talk about?

Attack the staff and get shot.

#99 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-10-14 06:33 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2021 World Readable

Drudge Retort