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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, October 14, 2021

It was shocking to learn that nobody in the Mueller investigative team, the Senate committee or the media even bothered to talk to Kilminick

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Hardly.

Thread sucks.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-14 10:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#1. That was a convincing response.

#2 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:34 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The premise the FBI should've stopped surveilling Kislyak because Jeff Sessions walked into the room is profoundly ludicrous.

Until Manafort explains giving secret campaign documents to a Putin crony, and Team Trump explains its 100+ lies about contacts with Russians, it is and always will be RussiaGate.

#3 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 10:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Until Manafort explains giving secret campaign documents to a Putin crony, and Team Trump explains its 100+ lies about contacts with Russians, it is and always will be RussiaGate.

Did you read the article?

What evidence do you have that Kilminick is a Putin crony?

Further, at least according to Kilminick nobody even reached out to him to ask any questions - nobody from Mueller's team, the Senate committee or the news media. Why?

Further, in his interview with someone who did reach out to him the polling data was publicly available. Is he lying? Perhaps, but what evidence do we have that he is lying?

#4 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 12:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Also, Manafort wasn't prosecuted for anything related to Russiagate. He was prosecuted for financial crimes that occurred over a decade prior to all of this. So, where is the collusion, particularly to an even remote criminal aspect?

#5 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 12:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Which country was invaded? How many casualties have there been?

#6 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2021-10-14 12:09 PM | Reply

@#3 ... Until Manafort explains giving secret campaign documents to a Putin crony, ...

It is old news that Mr Kilimnik denies being a Russian spy. Not sure why it is news again all of a sudden?

Longtime Manafort associate Konstantin Kilimnik rejects his depiction in Mueller report (2019)
www.washingtonpost.com

...Konstantin Kilimnik, a dual citizen of Russia and Ukraine who was a longtime business associate of Paul Manafort's, said he is perplexed that he became the focus of special counsel scrutiny and eventually faced criminal charges as a result of the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election.

In an email exchange Friday with The Washington Post, Kilimnik said the 448-page report by Robert S. Mueller III paints a false picture of his role, including the assessment by the FBI that he has ties to Russian intelligence.

"I have no ties to Russian or, for that matter, any intelligence operation," he wrote in an email. "This is one of the biggest mistakes in the public perception and in the report. It is simply not based on any facts and is a made-up narrative."...



#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-10-14 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Balldonger/Stoogical/JakeGoat is an idiot.

#8 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-14 01:36 PM | Reply

-#8. I can honestly say I've never witnessed you making a comment of any substance.

It's all insults. Pathetic.

#9 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 03:54 PM | Reply

Has your mom told you she has AIDS yet?

I gave them to her.

#10 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-14 03:57 PM | Reply

#10 at least that was creative.

I can respect an insult that resulted in a bit of creativity.

#11 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 04:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

" Manafort wasn't prosecuted for anything related to Russiagate."

So TF what??? Does that suddenly change the 100+ lies into truths?

#12 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 04:33 PM | Reply

#12 which lies are you referring to? Not trying to give you crap, just want to make sure we are on the same page.

#13 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 04:37 PM | Reply

"The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European but an Asiatic and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinaman or a Japanese and, from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all-out son of a bitch, a barbarian, and a chronic drunk."

GP

#14 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-14 04:51 PM | Reply

Russia helped get Trump elected.

I don't doubt this fact for a moment.

They probably did what they're accused of, focusing propaganda in purple areas where Hillary wasn't guaranteed the win. Areas Democrats took for granted.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-14 04:57 PM | Reply

#14

Jesus Christ, Tor.

That's some horrible propaganda you've posted.

#16 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-10-14 04:59 PM | Reply

Truth hurt, moron? We all know who and what you are. Go pound it, loser.

#17 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-14 05:02 PM | Reply

You really surprised that George Patton was a racist dumbfuq?

#18 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-14 05:21 PM | Reply

It really is brutal clown shack.

I don't think it has to do with Asian ancestry heck the Japanese have proven themselves for generations to be awesome for the most part.

I think Russia's problems stem from inbreeding.

The really nasty kind.

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-14 05:40 PM | Reply

They literally have Team Trump working with Russian agents and Assange. It's not even a theory anymore.

And worse, Russia help even if uncoordinated with the campaign, has been proven over and over.

The only question was whether Trump himself knew.

#20 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-10-14 06:20 PM | Reply

'...which lies are you referring to?'

Oh, FFS.
time.com
www.theguardian.com

And this doesn't even include Jeff Sessions' need for three swings at "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 06:38 PM | Reply

Let's cut to the chase, shall we?

Did the FBI approach both the Trump campaign and the HRC campaign to warn about possible Russian influence campaigns? Why yes, they did!

Did the FBI instruct both camps to report any attempts by Russians to the FBI? Why yes, they did!

Did the FBI continue to surveil Russians? Why yes, they did!

Did Team Trump members then interact with surveilled Russians? Why yes, they did!

Did Team Trump report the meetings/overtures from Russia to the FBI, as instructed? Why no, they didn't.

Did Team Trump tell America the truth about meetings with Russians? Why no, they didn't.

In other words, the central conceit the Gaslighting Oligarch Party wants folks to believe is, after all that, the FBI was out of line by continuing to record, once a Team Trump member walked into the room. And--get this--continuing to surveil Kislyak somehow equals spying on the Trump campaign.

Fact of the matter is, if HRC won a close election with possible help from Chinese folks, folks her team met with scores of times and always lied about...and the FBI passed on investigating in real time...Republicans' heads would explode. So all this is either faux outrage, or the height of hypocrisy.

#22 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 06:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Historians view of sessions will be interesting.

He seems to have gone along with some of Trumps darker plans but only when he agreed with the plans and when he didn't Trump couldn't get him to do anything he didn't want to do.

#23 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-14 07:19 PM | Reply

"It was shocking to learn that nobody in the Mueller investigative team, the Senate committee or the media even bothered to talk to Kilminick"

Talking to Kilminick wasn't properly predicated.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 07:28 PM | Reply

#22

This thread has nothing to do with Kiskyak

It pertains to Kilminick. Yea FB, similar names but completely different people and circumstances

#25 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 07:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#22 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I didn't bother saying any of that in post 1 because it's so thoroughly gone over I didn't think anyone (*cough*bellringer*cough*) would need for it to be said again.

This is all revisionist history trying to rehabilitate Trump's legacy. It's pathetic.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-14 07:35 PM | Reply

"This thread has nothing to do with Kiskyak "

Surveilling Kislyak was why Sessions had to "restate" his sworn testimony about meetings with Russians. Twice.

"completely different people and circumstances"

Pound sand. It's all about lies, to the FBI and the American people.

Go on: Tell us were it HRC, you would've been just fine if the FBI stood down (after Huma Abedin met, and disobeyed FBI instructions). I'd like to see the extent of your hypocrisy.

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 08:05 PM | Reply

#26 and #27

It's pretty clear neither of you read the article.

Your comments aren't on topic.

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 08:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Both of you seem pretty smart so maybe your egos won't allow you to admit that you were duped. Russiagate is a big hoax. Even honest Trump haters recognize it.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 08:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The true story of Russian Collusion is Hillary's political team trying to smear Trump due to her exposure on the server issues and her Pay to Play charity scam.

So, they commissioned a whole cloth fake dossier provided by an ex-spy to add some notion of credibility to it but consisting of bar talk and just totally fabricated information that was easy to disprove in many instances if the FBI/Intelligence community were interested in the truth rather than helping Hillary in her smear campaign. As part of this, the FISA court and special prosecutor's office was abused like never before by Democrat operatives thinking that they would NEVER be caught for their wrongdoing. Lastly, the intelligence community and the FBI were total corrupted in the process and knowingly hid or lied to continue the charade.

That is the sum total of this Russia Nonsense - and yes, Hillary and her team should go to jail for it but because of our 2-tier justice system, they likely will walk. The Justice Department lawyers that forged documents against Carter Page should have been locked up for YEARS for their conduct. His conduct amounted to trying to brand Page as a traitor to the US. That lawyer should have been made an example of so this kind of nonsense can never happen again.

#30 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 08:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's pretty clear neither of you read the article.

At 3,700 words you are probably right.

#31 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-10-14 08:54 PM | Reply

#31 good point.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 08:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

" her Pay to Play charity scam"

Which folks have claimed for years and years and years, without a single indictment, nor for that matter a shred of proof, despite the fact Foundation documents must be available to the public.

At this point, it's fair to conclude if Republicans had ANYTHING substantive against Hillary, we'd have seen it.

Because, as it stands, either Hillary is the greatest criminal in all of history, or Republicans or the most incompetent prosecutors known to man.

#33 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 09:12 PM | Reply

"Which folks have claimed for years and years and years, without a single indictment, nor for that matter a shred of proof, despite the fact Foundation documents must be available to the public.
#33 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

Squirts, we have Joe Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired that was investigating the firm his kid was being paid $83K/month to be on the board of - despite not speaking the language and no knowledge of the energy sector - along with Hunter complaining to his kids about Joe taking 50% of his salary...

...we have Hunter clearly lying about his drug addiction on a federal document to buy a handgun, then the dead brother's widow that he was banging stealing the gun and leaving it in the trash near a school...

...all without a single charge filed....

If you still think ANY Trump supporter still respects Federal law enforcement and believes:
1.) The same system of justice applies to everyone
2.) That the justice system will ever target top Democrats

you are clearly mentally impaired. Holding up an utterly incompetent agency that clearly has a 2-tier view of justice and then crowing 'See!!!! No indictments!!!' as some sort of argument is waste of everyone's time.

#34 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 09:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If you still think ANY Trump supporter still respects Federal law enforcement"

Nobody thinks they do.
Certainly not after attacking Federal law enforcement on Jan 6.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 09:24 PM | Reply

"Nobody thinks they do.
Certainly not after attacking Federal law enforcement on Jan 6.
#35 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

And this is the rub - I believe the FBI and CIA should be totally disbanded.

The Snoofy from 30 years ago would have 100% agreed with that. The Snoofy from the time of the Patriot-act re-authorization would have probably agreed with that. The current Snoofy - the basement bunker dweller that has been converted into the big-government religion of Authoritarianism - totally disagrees with it.

One of us needs to re-examine our belief system and it is not me.

#36 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 09:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And this is the rub - I believe the FBI and CIA should be totally disbanded"

^
Defund The Police!
LOL dude.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 09:29 PM | Reply

"Defund The Police!
#37 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I live in a gated community and own guns, I will be fine. It would decrease my city spending by about 30%.

You, on the other hand, better ask your mom to install bars on your basement bunker windows because defunding local police is not going to end street crime like you believe it will.

#38 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 09:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I live in a gated community and own guns, I will be fine. It would decrease my city spending by about 30%."

Your city spends 30% of its budget on police?
And you still feel so insecure you need to live behind gates and arm up?

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 09:42 PM | Reply

So you want to defund all police, not just Federal police?

LOL

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 09:43 PM | Reply

"It was shocking to learn that nobody in the Mueller investigative team, the Senate committee or the media even bothered to talk to Kilminick."

Well, he can come on in now and talk to the FBI. They'd like to have a little chat with him:

Konstantin Viktorovich Kilimnik is wanted by the FBI for obstruction of justice and engaging in a conspiracy to obstruct justice which occurred in Washington, D.C. and elsewhere from in or about and between February 23, 2018, and April of 2018. A 2018 indictment issued by the United States District Court for the District of Columbia alleges that Kilimnik knowingly and intentionally attempted to corruptly persuade another person, with intent to influence, delay, and prevent testimony in an official proceeding. Kilimnik worked and served as a liaison to Ukrainian and Russian politicians and businessmen. Kilimnik, who is assessed by the FBI to have ties to Russian Intelligence, allegedly assisted with a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign in the United States which was allegedly conducted at the direction of the Ukrainian Government without providing disclosures required by law.

On June 8, 2018, a federal arrest warrant was issued for Konstantin Viktorovich Kilimnik in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia after he was charged with obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice.

www.fbi.gov

#41 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 09:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Your city spends 30% of its budget on police?
And you still feel so insecure you need to live behind gates and arm up?
#39 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Most cities spending between 25-40% - if you ever have to start paying taxes, you will probably take an interest in it.

As to 'arming up' by buying a gun to prevent crime - I would ask the same question to you: you have been double vaccinated but still are afraid to go outside?

I take it as an ounce of precaution.

As to defunding all police, again, I am fine abolishing 100% of federal police and intelligence agencies including the NSA, CIA, etc. As to local police, they still serve a function but are not actually deployed where they are needed. In my area, they go around collecting fees on traffic violations to justify their staffing. They should just collect more through straight taxation and make the cops walk the beat in the crime ridden areas of the city to make life better for the residence there.

#42 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 09:50 PM | Reply

Probably just a coincidence:

Out of the Shadows, new documentary by @GStephanopoulos on Christopher Steele, airs October 18th on Hulu.

twitter.com

Maybe Steele will talk more about this:

Steele had 'personal' relationship with Ivanka Trump, DoJ report reveals

The former MI6 officer Christopher Steele had a "personal" relationship with Ivanka Trump and gifted her a "family tartan from Scotland" as a present, the long-awaited report by US Department of Justice inspector general, Michael Horowitz, revealed on Monday.

www.theguardian.com

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 09:56 PM | Reply

"Kilimnik, who is assessed by the FBI to have ties to Russian Intelligence, allegedly assisted with a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign in the United States which was allegedly conducted at the direction of the Ukrainian Government without providing disclosures required by law.
#41 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

And here we go with why we all know there is a 2-tiered justice system. This violation of the law was handled with a simple post-dated admission by the Podestas and it went no further. As I said above, the FBI is corrupt and incompetent...and sorry, it is not just the 'leaders', it is rotten to the core and needs to be disbanded completely. Reforming an entrenched institution that has spent most of its existence operating above the law is not possible. Disband it completely.

#44 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 09:57 PM | Reply

"The former MI6 officer Christopher Steele had a "personal" relationship with Ivanka Trump
#43 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

It is clear this guy was a broke loser trying to suck up to power to turn a buck. That was basically the intelligence community assessment of him - and if the intelligence community knew it, it had to be 100% obvious as they are incompetent. So, he found his money smearing on behalf of Hillary.

#45 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 10:00 PM | Reply

"I would ask the same question to you: you have been double vaccinated but still are afraid to go outside?"

Hahaha!!
You're afraid to say your past username(s).
What else are you afraid of?

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:03 PM | Reply

" Because, as it stands, either Hillary is the greatest criminal in all of history, or Republicans or the most incompetent prosecutors known to man."

Maybe it's both? :-)

#47 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:04 PM | Reply

On behalf of Hillary? More likely on behalf of Trump (emphasis mine):

Last week, in the midst of his opening remarks in the congressional impeachment hearings, the House Intelligence Committee's ranking Republican, Devin Nunes, Republican of California, went off on a tangent that was almost unintelligible to anyone not steeped in Trumpworld's alternative narrative, claiming that Democrats "got caught defending the false allegations of the Steele dossier, which was paid for by them."

www.newyorker.com

Looks to me like Steele, working on behalf of Ivanka, put out a dossier that muddy the waters just enough to cover up Trump's real Russian ties. Definitely a win/win for Trump.

#48 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 10:14 PM | Reply

#48 Interesting angle. Feels a bit too much to ask of Trump in the big brain dept., but not beyond Putin.

Mix some facts with some lies and the Deplorables will also dismiss the truth.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:22 PM | Reply

"Squirts"

Thanks for reminding folks you got caught in a lie about ivermectin, and now have to pretend "squirts" are the worst outcome, and not what doctors have warned about: severe allergic reaction, seizures, and loss of consciousness.

Just like you got caught in a lie about Uttar Pradesh.
Just like you got caught in a lie about VAERS.
Just like you got caught in a lie about a fake "Pew" research site.

And now, you're blathering on about Hillary and her "Pay for Play" charity "scam", as if that hadn't been investigated within an inch of its life, and found to be wanting. In fact, the folks investigating decided Benghazi was a better way to get at HRC. Let that sink in. Benghazi, where HRC wasn't even in the military chain of command.

So it looks like you got caught in yet ANOTHER lie. Unless of course, you have any evidence to proffer that Republican prosecutors haven't been able to find, despite decades of looking.

#50 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 10:24 PM | Reply

"#48 Interesting angle. Feels a bit too much to ask of Trump in the big brain dept., but not beyond Putin.
Mix some facts with some lies and the Deplorables will also dismiss the truth."

Yes to Putin being behind the scheme:

The idea that the Steele dossier represents an exercise in Chekist provokatsiya gets more plausible the more you look at it. It's very much in the habits of Russian intelligence to disseminate a great deal of accurate information, sometimes muddied, in the service of a greater lie. The KGB's successors are highly adept at assembling disinformation that results in more questions than answers for Western investigators. There's no doubt that the dossier created enormous political churn in Washington--including murky assertions that haven't been resolved yet and perhaps never will be.

topsecretumbra.substack.com

#51 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 10:32 PM | Reply

#48 Steele was working on behalf of Perkins Coie trying to dig up any kind of dirt on Trump he could via Russian nationals. Problem was the dirt he dug up was garbage - innuendo and drunken bar-talk rumors. That the FBI used it as a predicate to investigate Trump and spy on his campaign was criminal.

I know this is a difficult concept for some, particularly on the left, but here goes....it is possible to despise Trump (as I do) and also recognize what complete garbage Russiagate was to the point of aspects of it being very likely criminal. It's not unlike being able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

#52 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:41 PM | Reply

"That the FBI used it as a predicate to investigate Trump and spy on his campaign was criminal."

Really? Which criminal statute(s) did the FBI run afoul of?

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:44 PM | Reply

"it is possible to despise Trump (as I do) and also recognize what complete garbage Russiagate was"

You keep saying you despise Trump, yet you support all of his policies and you always rush to defend him, politically.

It's possible that you despise Trump and you also love him.
You're probably just projecting your feelings for your own father onto Trump.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:46 PM | Reply

#53 falsifying a document presented to the FISA court, for starters.

Making the Steele dossier central and essential to obtaining FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page is another.

#55 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:47 PM | Reply

Memo reveals dossier wasn't the origin of FBI investigation

There's one sentence in the last paragraph of the GOP memo that could thwart President Trump's efforts to discredit the Russia probe, the Washington Post points out. "The Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 by FBI agent Pete Strzok."

Why it matters: This line undermines the argument that the FBI counterintelligence investigation happened because the Trump dossier set it in motion. Instead, it points to a former Trump campaign associate (who has since been charged in Mueller's probe) as the reason.

Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee wrote as much in their response to the Devin Nunes memo: "This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture."

www.axios.com

#56 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 10:48 PM | Reply

#54 Out of courtesy I am going to give you a head's up - I don't respond to trolling posts.

If you want to have a discussion, I'm game. If you want to build on #54 I will ignore you.

#57 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:48 PM | Reply

#56 It was also revealed that Hillary's team informed the Obama administration that the Steele Dossier was to try and distract from her own email scandal. Three days later the FBI launched "Cross Fire". That timing is awfully convenient.

#58 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:50 PM | Reply

#56 Don't even get me going on Papadapolous. That was some serious malfeasance regarding an offhand and somewhat innocuous remark over drinks, compounded by the fact that when an undercover FBI agent asked him about having Russia help dig up dirt on Hillary he responded that he wouldn't do that because it would be illegal.

#59 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 10:52 PM | Reply

"#53 falsifying a document presented to the FISA court, for starters."

That was certainly wrong: www.justice.gov
But, said document wasn't the only reason for the investigation.

"Making the Steele dossier central and essential to obtaining FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page is another."
^
You didn't specify an actual crime there.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:53 PM | Reply

"" Because, as it stands, either Hillary is the greatest criminal in all of history, or Republicans or the most incompetent prosecutors known to man."
Maybe it's both? :-)
#47 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER"

The Republican incompetence is by design - they won't crack down because both parties use the same corrupt tricks. Both use the turnstile to private industry, both use the book tours, both use lobbying gigs and speaking engagements, both use insider trading.

Let's take Hillary's emails - which were in her own bathroom server because they related to the pay to play charity scam. Under subpoena, they are deleted, bleach-bitted, and physical devices were destroyed with hammers. If that was anyone but Hillary, they would be in jail for this and no one can even attempt to defend this with a straight face. Yes, Hillary is a criminal, yes GOP is incompetent by design - Jeff Session and Trey Gowdy would be exhibits #1 and #2 for this.

That is why I want to drastically shrink the federal government - because it is beyond reforming. We need to slash and burn - some power goes back to the states and a majority the government had no business in dealing with in the first place.

#61 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 10:55 PM | Reply

"Let's take Hillary's emails - which were in her own bathroom server because they related to the pay to play charity scam"

They were?
Who paid, who played?

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 10:59 PM | Reply

"That is why I want to drastically shrink the federal government - because it is beyond reforming."

How would that stop Hillary, who wasn't even President?
???

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:00 PM | Reply

You didn't specify an actual crime there.

#60 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-10-14 10:53 PM

It's been established that at the very least the second, third and fourth FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page could not have been obtained had the FBI not included the Steele Dossier contents and vouched for its veracity. So far, no criminal charges have resulted from that although the IG report was scathing in its condemnation of it. An investigation into this and other actions taken by the FBI is ongoing. It remains to be seen if more indictments are forthcoming.

#64 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:00 PM | Reply

"If that was anyone but Hillary, they would be in jail for this and no one can even attempt to defend this with a straight face."

LOL. It wasn't even illegal for the Secretary of State to have her own email server.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:01 PM | Reply

"It's been established that at the very least the second, third and fourth FISA warrants to spy on Carter Page could not have been obtained had the FBI not included the Steele Dossier contents and vouched for its veracity."

^
Still no crime.

"although the IG report was scathing in its condemnation of it."

You're just all over the place with this crap.

www.acslaw.org

www.politico.com
Key takeaways from the report
Jump to each takeaway by clicking the links below
The FBI did not use the Steele dossier to open Russia probe
Lynch, Comey sat for IG interviews
No evidence political bias was a factor
Peter Strzok and Lisa Page were not decision-makers
Carter Page was the only Trump official under FISA surveillance
First Carter Page FISA contained seven significant inaccuracies and omissions'
Steele dropped as FBI source after Mother Jones article
Steele had prior relationship with Ivanka Trump
Manafort was under investigation prior to Russia probe scrutiny

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:05 PM | Reply

"the IG report was scathing in its condemnation of it. "

The IG report mentioned it, but the IG went out of his way pointing out it didn't undermine the solid reasons for the investigation.

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:06 PM | Reply

"If that was anyone but Hillary, they would be in jail for this and no one can even attempt to defend this with a straight face."

Laughable. You're pretending bloodthirsty Republicans had prosecutable offenses, but passed.

Based on history, that doesn't even pass the smell test.

#68 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:08 PM | Reply

"It was also revealed that Hillary's team informed the Obama administration that the Steele Dossier was to try and distract from her own email scandal. Three days later the FBI launched "Cross Fire". That timing is awfully convenient."

Link?

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 11:09 PM | Reply

"which were in her own bathroom server because they related to the pay to play charity scam."

Let me guess: your proof is just as solid as your claim ivermectin has "no known side effects".

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:09 PM | Reply

"The Republican incompetence is by design"

Whatever you say, Fredo....

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:11 PM | Reply

"The Republican incompetence is by design"

But only on the federal level? Once power is restored to the states everything will be hunky-dory, and GOP incompetence by design will cease to exist? Please.

#72 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 11:15 PM | Reply

"Hillary's political team ... commissioned a whole cloth fake dossier provided by an ex-spy"

Skepitimoron can't seem to catch a break. From The NY Times:

The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by a major Republican donor, first hired the research firm that months later produced for Democrats the salacious dossier describing ties between Donald J. Trump and the Russian government, the website said on Friday. The Free Beacon, funded in large part by the New York hedge fund billionaire Paul Singer, hired the firm, Fusion GPS, in 2015 to unearth damaging information about several Republican presidential candidates, including Mr. Trump. But The Free Beacon told the firm to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:16 PM | Reply

#69 I've read about it from multiple sources including one source very recently. I've tried a couple of different Google searches and I can't find the sources where I read about it. So, take what I said with a grain of kosher salt, for now

#74 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:19 PM | Reply

LMFAO

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:19 PM | Reply

This is what you call a discussion, huh?

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:20 PM | Reply

#76

Yes, it is. I made a claim based upon what I read (including within the last week) and was asked for substantiation. I can't find the source via Google so I'm backing off the claim because I can't source it, at least not at the moment.

#77 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:22 PM | Reply

"I've read about it from multiple sources including one source very recently."

Let me guess: OAN quoting PJ Media.

Multiple sources mean nothing if both equally believe you're gullible.

#78 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:24 PM | Reply

Review the claims in #86, which are documented, and discuss that.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:24 PM | Reply

Sorry, #66.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-14 11:24 PM | Reply

My feeling is Durhman wants to take down Marc Elias because he is the one who has brought so many successful election-related cases against Trump and the GOP in recent months. Nobody in the Republican party cares about Hillary anymore as she will never run again and has no power in Democratic circles or elsewhere.

#81 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-14 11:25 PM | Reply

Let me guess: OAN quoting PJ Media.

No. Not at all.

#82 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:26 PM | Reply

"That was some serious malfeasance regarding an offhand and somewhat innocuous remark over drinks"

Great. So that's the defense: You had no right to uncover my wrongs!

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-14 11:27 PM | Reply

Review the claims in #86, which are documented, and discuss that.

#79 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-10-14 11:24 PM

Post #86 doesn't even exist yet, you moron!

#84 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:27 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

I saw your #80 BEFORE I posted #84.

#85 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:29 PM | Reply

Great. So that's the defense: You had no right to uncover my wrongs!

#83 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-14 11:27 PM

No. Do you know what Papadapolous's wrongs were?

When we look at the totality of his "wrongs" it was an incredibly weak predicate (laughable, really) for the FBI to open a counter-intelligence investigation into a political campaign.

#86 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-14 11:32 PM | Reply

"Skepitimoron can't seem to catch a break. From The NY Times:
The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by a major Republican donor, first hired the research firm
#73 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

Squirts, you need to understand the space time continuum - seems this is a difficult concept for you. The Washington Free Beacon funded the anti-Trump nonsense at first - BUT ENDED THEIR FUNDING PRIOR TO CHRISTOPHER STEELE BEING HIRED.

Why you pretend the whole cloth fabrication peddled by Christopher Steele is not 100% funded by Hillary is a lesson in the Left's mental illness.

So, show the class that you do understand the concept of the space time continuum by explaining how it is not possible for the Washington Free Beacon to be responsible for the Steele Dossier as Steel was only hired to produce the dossier after they ceased funding it and the project transferred over to the Clinton campaign.

#87 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-14 11:57 PM | Reply

"#77 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER"

The source is the statement from Andrew McCabe in his testimony that had it not been for the Dossier, the FISA warrant would not have been granted. McCabe is trying to spin that now though.

#88 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 12:03 AM | Reply

The source is the statement from Andrew McCabe in his testimony that had it not been for the Dossier, the FISA warrant would not have been granted. McCabe is trying to spin that now though.

#88 | POSTED BY SKEPTICAL

It was amazing to watch. McCabe was a protected by the fact that it was a teleconference call (COVID). He was asked point-blank, had he known then what he knows now would he have signed off on those warrants and he answered, "No" He was extremely uncomfortable throughout the process and it would have been worse for him had his testimony been in person. It was a straight-up admission that certain FISA warrants were unlawfully obtained.

#89 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:09 AM | Reply

"It was a straight-up admission that certain FISA warrants were unlawfully obtained.
#89 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER"

100% correct. However, even the liberals know that but will spin and lie with cover from the MSM and be secure in the knowledge that NOTHING will happen to them for abusing their office. That is why I say these agencies need to be completed shut down. If you need any proof of this - look no further than the slap on the wrist the DOJ lawyer got for forging the Carter Page email. Lying to the FISA court should result in 10 years in prison - they didn't even require this guy to serve a single day. Lying to a FISA court - with the court itself being a violation of Constitutional rights is the lowest the government can go. Why anyone would have faith in the system is something I will never understand given the repeated abuses, failings, 2-tiered system and NOTHING ever happens. Roger Stone 'lies' to the FBI - prison. Comey, McCabe, Clapper, etc lie to the FBI/Congress, etc - NOTHING. Burin it all down.

#90 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 12:22 AM | Reply

"But only on the federal level? Once power is restored to the states everything will be hunky-dory, and GOP incompetence by design will cease to exist? Please.
#72 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

I think power needs to be taken back to the state level as well. However, we need to start with the Federal government because of its overall size and level of abuse. At the state and city level, there are a whole host of wasteful programs that should be eliminated - but the size and scope is nothing compared to the Feds.

#91 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 12:24 AM | Reply

#82

Well, it's certainly an outlet willing to tell you Hillary originated something commissioned by a Republican donor. Fox quoting Infowars? Michael Savage channeling Newsmax?

#92 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 12:27 AM | Reply

Snoofy,
I saw your #80 BEFORE I posted #84.
#85 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Solid discussion. I can see why you wanted to have it.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 12:30 AM | Reply

"Comey, McCabe, Clapper, etc lie to the FBI/Congress, etc - NOTHING."

Oh, don't worry.

Some idiot on this blog assured all of us those three would be frog-marched once the Durham Report comes out...

...just in time for Trump to win the November 2020 election with over 25% of the black vote...so...

...any year now..

#94 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 12:30 AM | Reply

"Lying to the FISA court should result in 10 years in prison"

The maximum possible sentence for that was five years, by the way.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 12:32 AM | Reply

#93 I was trying to have fun. I can't tell whether you took it in the manner in which it was intended or you were snubbing my earlier calls for serious discussion because I decided to temporarily derail in an attempt at humor.

#96 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:35 AM | Reply

#93 No matter how you took it, it wasn't an insult.

#97 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:36 AM | Reply

Let's discuss not discussing #66.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 12:36 AM | Reply

"it was an incredibly weak predicate (laughable, really) for the FBI to open a counter-intelligence investigation into a political campaign."

Dude.

The campaign disobeying direct instruction from the FBI, that the FBI knows about, while hearing that political campaign publicly lie about contacts with Russians IS PLENTY OF REASON for a counter-intelligence investigation.

Again, pretend it was Hillary. You would be demanding heads if the FBI had rolled over. This is either faux outrage, raging ignorance, or blazing hypocrisy.

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 12:39 AM | Reply

Some idiot on this blog assured all of us those three would be frog-marched once the Durham Report comes out...

#94 | POSTED BY DANFORTH A

Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of the Durham Report?

That's not a trap question. I don't know what to expect with it.

Just curious to hear your thoughts - there is no wrong answer as my question is speculative.

#100 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:40 AM | Reply

"Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of the Durham Report?"

All suggestions of frog-marching the trio are incel-fapping fantasies.

#101 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 12:47 AM | Reply

"Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of the Durham Report?
#100 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER"

My prediction: useless Washington inaction and cover up. The results of the Durham Report will be that people will finally understand you cannot count on the justice system to actually work. Thus, when GOP reclaims power in 2022, you will see calls for a lot more direct action and no longer waiting 2+ years for a report that is only relevant if released immediately. It is a great wake up call.

#102 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 12:50 AM | Reply

#99 Papadapolous was an extremely weak reason to launch a counter-intelligence investigation into a presidential campaign whilst the other party was in control of the investigatory agencies.

Look, I really don't want to fight you on this (you are surely ready to quote Spock with - "That is wise").

It's not about fighting. It's about establishing some basic facts. In this case (this thread) the argument is narrow - a HUGE deal was made over the fact that Manafort shared polling data (our media inserted "sensitive" without any attribution) with Kilminick. This was treated as a massive smoking gun of collusion (likely criminal) between Trump and Putin. According to the article, nobody from the Mueller team talked to Kilminick. Nobody from the Senate committee talked to him. Almost nobody from the media talked to him. Yet, this nefarious narrative was crafted that Manafort sharing "sensitive" polling data with him was somehow proof of some criminal conspiracy....Evidence supporting this narrative simply doesn't exist. Taibbi actually interviewed this guy. His claims (yes, he could be lying but we have almost zero proof that he is lying) are that, A) he has no meaningful connection to Putin; and B) the nefarious polling data was nothing more that a couple of numbers that were publicly available via RCP polling averages.

This thread isn't about Papadapolous.

It's exclusively about this big, bad narrative that Manafort (at Trump's behest) was sharing hugely consequential and sensitive polling material with Putin to be used to steal the election.

#103 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:58 AM | Reply

"Lying to the FISA court should result in 10 years in prison - they didn't even require this guy to serve a single day. "

Well, since the documents numbered more pages than the dossier, it's possible the supporting information warranted the surveillance...

...like maybe the fact Carter Page told the FBI the Russians had approached him.

Did you catch that??? THIS is how effing stupid this has become: Page can literally tell the FBI the Russians are trying to recruit him, and partisan morons will insist that's not enough to investigate.

#104 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 12:59 AM | Reply

"Do you have any predictions regarding the outcome of the Durham Report?"

All suggestions of frog-marching the trio are incel-fapping fantasies.

#101 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-15 12:47 AM

Thank you for answering my question.

#105 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 12:59 AM | Reply

Let's discuss not discussing #66.

I respect that but we can't ignore how Order #66 affected galactic power - the Jedi were pretty much wiped out, after all.

#106 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:01 AM | Reply

Michael Savage channeling Newsmax?

#92 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Is that POS even relevant any more?

Back in the day I accidentally picked up his show when driving and after a few minutes I tried to punch him through my radio.

What a nasty piece of work.

#107 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:05 AM | Reply

"...like maybe the fact Carter Page told the FBI the Russians had approached him.
Did you catch that??? THIS is how effing stupid this has become: Page can literally tell the FBI the Russians are trying to recruit him, and partisan morons will insist that's not enough to investigate.
#104 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

Squirts, did you miss how the criminal DOJ lawyer altered an email from the CIA that stated Carter Page was a source to 'NOT A SOURCE'? This is not like omitting a document - this is active forgery. This is an active lie with full knowledge of what he was doing. Had the FISA court know that Page was a source for the CIA, then the FISA court under no circumstances should have violated the rights of Carter Page by allowing the warrant to be granted.

#108 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 01:10 AM | Reply

"Back in the day I accidentally picked up his show "

I'll never forget the first time: this big, booming announcer, trumpeting this bastion of all things good and righteous in a hugely resonant bass voice, saying "MIKE-ELL SAVVV-AAAAGE"

...and then some guy who sounded like Mike Tyson on helium started talking.

#109 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:12 AM | Reply

"Squirts, did you miss how the criminal DOJ lawyer altered an email from the CIA that stated Carter Page was a source to 'NOT A SOURCE'? This is not like omitting a document - this is active forgery. "

To be fair, he has acknowledged it (more than once that I've observed) and has both denounced it and has called for prosecution of it.

#110 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:14 AM | Reply

He will probably claim otherwise, just to eff with me, but I have receipts.

#111 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:14 AM | Reply

'll never forget the first time: this big, booming announcer, trumpeting this bastion of all things good and righteous in a hugely resonant bass voice, saying "MIKE-ELL SAVVV-AAAAGE"

...and then some guy who sounded like Mike Tyson on helium started talking.

That is absolutely hilarious.

Mike Tyson on Helium? I am not sure a dog could hear that. Damn!

#112 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:16 AM | Reply

"Squirts"

Once again, thanks for reminding folks you got caught in a lie about ivermectin, and now have to pretend "squirts" are the worst outcome, and not what doctors have warned about: severe allergic reaction, seizures, and loss of consciousness. You rub your own face in your lie in a way I never could.

"did you miss how..."

What a riot.

Did you miss how every excuse just boils down to You had no right to discover my wrongs!...? Right now, you're whining that folks shouldn't have discovered Team Trump was lying to the American people about contacts with Russians.

"the FISA court under no circumstances should have violated the rights of Carter Page by allowing the warrant to be granted."

What part about "Carter Page told the FBI that Russia was trying to recruit him" did you miss?

#113 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:17 AM | Reply

" I have receipts."

Under what nom de plume?

But yes, I've advocated prosecuting FISA liars to the fullest extent of the law. That said, suggesting there was no reason for any investigation is just insultingly stupid. As is omitting the fact the IG went out of his way to point out the lies did not materially affect the investigation, nor did political leanings. Presenting the IG report as if it excoriated every foundation for the investigation is, at best, intellectually dishonest.

#114 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:21 AM | Reply

What part about "Carter Page told the FBI that Russia was trying to recruit him" did you miss?

#113 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-15 01:17 AM

An argument might be able to be made that the first warrant application was legit (I'm being very generous). The next 3 would have been denied were it not for the Steele Dossier, which was known to be garbage but was utilized nevertheless.

Further, Page had a history with the CIA as an informant for the US government against Russia yet when an inquiry was sent out to try and authorize yet anther FISA warrant an agent altered the email response to create the exact opposite result. Not sure why you are going back to this when you already admitted what really happened and that it was wrong.

Maybe it's the Thursday night booze interjecting a bit (I'm unsuccessfully trying to fight it off)

#115 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:26 AM | Reply

"#99 Papadapolous was an extremely weak reason to launch a counter-intelligence investigation into a presidential campaign whilst the other party was in control of the investigatory agencies."

If the other party was in control of the investigation, why did they announce they were investigating Hillary Clinton days before the election?

LOL dude. Find some new material.

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 01:32 AM | Reply

"What part about "Carter Page told the FBI that Russia was trying to recruit him" did you miss?

#113 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

Squirts, I highly doubt the lawyer would have violated the law and all his ethical oaths to forge the email if he thought that "Carter Page told the FBI that Russia was trying to recruit him" would be enough to get the FISA warrant.

As for the IG - again - no one should trust these corrupt, incompetent federal employees. The IG is most interested in self-preservation for himself and the agencies he represents.

They should not be trusted, they should not be respected, they should not be funded, they should not be given power/control. Burn it down - end the FBI, end the FISA court, end the NSA, CIA, etc. They cause more harm than good.

#117 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 01:33 AM | Reply

"The next 3 would have been denied "

The approach from the Russians was after the first one, iirc. And new FISA applications are only granted if NEW material has been obtained with the last warrant. They couldn't use the Steele Dossier as a reference; it must have been the other paperwork submitted.

"Not sure why you are going back to this when you already admitted what really happened and that it was wrong. "

Not sure why ANYONE is bringing it up, when the IG report said it didn't materially effect the investigation or outcome.

#118 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:36 AM | Reply

"no one should trust these corrupt, incompetent federal employees."

Is there a specific DR veteran you consider exceptionally incompetent? Maybe Boaz?

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 01:38 AM | Reply

But yes, I've advocated prosecuting FISA liars to the fullest extent of the law.

I've observed that.

I know this is trite but if you are trying to persuade people tossing out admissions like that really does go a long way.

It's tough. Our country is very polarized on so many fronts (not all of which are political). It's so easy to fall into a us/them mentality.

Throw out the politics. We all need to figure out how to talk to each other. Sans hate. Just talk to one another. Right now, "Kumbaya" is beyond fantasy.

But maybe just ask questions in a way in which we try to better understand each other's point of views?

I am not naive. The polarization and divisiveness in our country is really intense right now. I don't know how to improve it other than advocating that we actually talk to each other instead of past each other.

#120 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 01:39 AM | Reply

"Squirts, I highly doubt..."

Thanks once again, for reminding folks you got caught dead-to-rights in a lie about ivermectin, and now have to pretend "squirts" are the worst outcome, and not what doctors have warned about: severe allergic reaction, seizures, and loss of consciousness. Have you finally decided to come clean about the truth, or are you going to keep with your "there are no known side effects" to ivermectin?

"They should not be trusted, they should not be respected"

Folks who get caught breaking the law always have that reaction.

#121 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:39 AM | Reply

"Burn it down - end the FBI, end the FISA court, end the NSA, CIA, etc. They cause more harm than good."

Exactly what a comrade would say, trying to earn his rubles.

#122 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:42 AM | Reply

Nice try Ding Dong.

Trumpy's campaign made hundreds of contacts with Russians. They invited investigations by their outrageous behavior.

If you don't want to be investigated and wiretapped by the FBI then don't be hanging out with or calling Russian spies!!

The Big Lie is akin to the Bush Cheney lies about WMD. They lied us into a war where thousands of Americans died.

Get back with us when Biden goes to war over a lie.

Trumpy is lying us into a civil war.

Time to start holding Trumpy and his minions accountable for Jan 6th. Before more Americans die due to Trumpy and his lies.

Steve Bannon has volunteered to go first.

Let the perp walks begin.

#123 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-15 01:44 AM | Reply

"But maybe just ask questions in a way in which we try to better understand each other's point of views?"

Sure.
What were your old usernames, and why'd you come back after being banned?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 01:50 AM | Reply

"Exactly what a comrade would say, trying to earn his rubles.
#122 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

No Squirts, it is exactly what someone that loves the USA and all that it stands for would say. It is probably what you said before you were converted into the Big Government religion of Authoritarianism.

We have a divide in this country - those that want an omniscient and omnipresent government to control every aspect of their lives and those that understand the government is incompetent and people are better off with freedom.

You belong to the Authoritarian group and the BS you are pushing is way more harmful to the US than anything Putin could do.

#125 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 01:54 AM | Reply

"No Squirts..."

Thanks for reminding us, once again, you'll lie about anything, and when proven wrong, you'll continue to lie.

Tell us: are there "no known side effects" to ivermectin, as you claimed, or were you caught in a lie?

#126 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:57 AM | Reply

"those that understand the government is incompetent"

Well Reagan certainly was the first Republican to try to prove that claim.
Dubya was incompetent as well; Trump an absolute disaster.

Republicans keep screaming "government is the problem", and then when elected, do everything they can to prove their mantra correct.

Ultimately, it's a lot easier to throw a wrench in the machine than it is to design, build, run, and maintain it. Your answer is the equivalent of vandalism.

#127 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 02:00 AM | Reply

"the BS you are pushing is way more harmful to the US than anything Putin could do."

Bwahahahaha!

Can you taste the stupid when you post something that incredibly dumb???

#128 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 02:01 AM | Reply

"Can you taste the stupid when you post something that incredibly dumb???
#128 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

I can smell your fear when you strap on your all white pantsuit. However, being an American I realize the dangers posed by authoritarianism and the braindead Left's steady acceptance of more and more centralized control and conformity in opinion.

You would make a fine little Nazi with your full throated defense of the Gestapo and approval for the monitoring the private communication of citizens.

#129 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 03:34 AM | Reply

" POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" "

Thanks for again reminding everyone what a liar you are. I appreciate it, and I'm sure the regular readers do as well. It helps when someone insists on bringing up a particularly embarrassing moment when they got caught making a false claim about something, in this case ivermectin. It's particularly telling you still refuse to agree with doctors around the world that it can cause loss of consciousness, severe allergic reactions, and seizures. Do you plan on continuing to lie about the side effects of ivermectin, even after you've been caught?

"I can smell your fear when you strap on your all white pantsuit. "

What your smelling is that place you've been getting all your posts. I'm sure it stinks.

"You would make a fine little Nazi with your full throated defense of the Gestapo "

Oh, FFS, you're so full of confession and projection. Look at you: defending folks who got caught lying about meeting with Russians again and again, and all you can do is whine about the methods of discovery.

#130 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 03:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I realize the dangers posed by authoritarianism"

You do? What are they? What dangers does authoritarianism pose to you and your guns in your gated community?

"the braindead Left's steady acceptance of more and more centralized control and conformity in opinion"

Republicans don't even have a political platform. Why are you accepting of that?

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 04:19 AM | Reply

"Republicans don't even have a political platform. Why are you accepting of that?
#131 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

I provided a summary of the Trump platform and my assessment of the completion percentage the other day. I don't feel like re-typing it now to prove you wrong.

#132 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 04:33 AM | Reply

"I provided a summary of the Trump platform"

That's my point.
It's not even the Republican platform.
It's one man's platform. That's a hallmark of authoritarianism.

As I've pointed out many times, you're fine with fascism and authoritarianism.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 04:40 AM | Reply

"those that understand the government is incompetent and people are better off with freedom."
--Skeptical

"I provided a summary of the Trump platform and my assessment of the completion percentage the other day."
--Also Skepitcal

Oh, I get it. Government isn't incompetent... but only when Trump is President!

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 05:18 AM | Reply

I found it:

1.) End foreign wars (Trump accomplished that)
2.) Control the border (Trump 50% successful)
3.) Tariffs on China to move jobs back to the US (50% successful)
4.) Energy independence (100% successful)
5.) Bring back manufacturing to the US (50% successful)
6.) Fund law enforcement to make cities safer (50% successful until BLM riots)
Biden has reversed course on #2-#5 and the result has been run away inflation, soaring gas prices making our enemies rich, out of control crime in blue cities, and probably close to 2M illegals entering the country in 2021.
These are just the facts - you may want to whine that it is not Biden's fault, the but the results are what they are.
#17 | POSTED BY SKEPTICAL

You sure seem to think government can do great things... but only when Trump is President!

You want to defund the police... but when Trump funds the police, that's good!

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 05:25 AM | Reply

"Oh, I get it. Government isn't incompetent... but only when Trump is President!
#134 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Trump is the best leader we have had as a nation in the last 100+ years and he was only able to accomplish half of what he needed to do because of the deeply ingrained incompetence of the US government. With a fool at the head of the ship - we are getting the results we expected with Biden....run away inflation, military debacles, supply lines so backed up it will threaten Q4 retail, mass deaths from Biden-covid variants, the southern border overrun with illegals and skyrocketing crime in blue cities. Yes, government is incompetent and Biden proves that truth every day his handlers push him in from of the public.

#136 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 05:47 AM | Reply

"he was only able to accomplish half of what he needed to do because of the deeply ingrained incompetence of the US government."

Get real.

He had both houses of Congress for two years and he couldn't even repeal Obamacare.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 05:50 AM | Reply

"Trump is the best leader we have had as a nation in the last 100+ years"

Trump's leadership doubled the COVID death toll and now it's become a plague that is almost exclusively killing Republicans, Independents, and Libertarians. Those that don't die threaten to bring down the health care system by refusing vaccination. Those that don't get sick threaten the nation's economic recovery by refusing to work.

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 05:52 AM | Reply

The bankruptcy-prone orange racist killed more Americans than Hitler and had the worst jobs record since Hoover. Even Shrub and his great recession couldn't match Bunker Bitch's record of futility.

#139 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2021-10-15 05:54 AM | Reply

"He had both houses of Congress for two years and he couldn't even repeal Obamacare.
#137 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Because the GOP, outside of Trump, is largely incompetent. I am not going to defend them and I did not vote for them. The Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney wing of the party are total losers that are as bad as Democrats.

#140 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 05:54 AM | Reply

The OP, a Russian troll farmer lying his ass off about the Russian-Trump connection??????

Color me not surprised. Daddy Vlad must have cut off or severely decreased the rubles and the personal "spunk" delivery to his boy Bellruskie.

#141 | Posted by a_monson at 2021-10-15 06:00 AM | Reply

"Because the GOP, outside of Trump, is largely incompetent."

All they had to do was introduce the legislation the White House sent them.
Why didn't they do that?

#142 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:02 AM | Reply

Dang, the Ruskie troll farmers seem desperate. The whole crew showed up. Looks like pooty poot is going to work overtime providing Vlad batter to all his trolls in St Petersburg, Russia. Also hear their ruble supply has been threatened. Poor little Ruskie troglodytes.

#143 | Posted by a_monson at 2021-10-15 06:05 AM | Reply

If Trump is such a great leader, the best we've had in a century, why couldn't he get the GOP Congress to enact his legislation?

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:06 AM | Reply

"All they had to do was introduce the legislation the White House sent them.
Why didn't they do that?
#142 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Because they are incompetent. Didn't I already point that out to you?

#145 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 06:06 AM | Reply

No, that's not why.

It's because Trump didn't send them any legislation to enact.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:07 AM | Reply

"Because they are incompetent."

Obama was able to get them to pass Obamacare.
Why couldn't Trump get them to pass Trumpcare?

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:08 AM | Reply

"If Trump is such a great leader, the best we've had in a century, why couldn't he get the GOP Congress to enact his legislation?
#144 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Again, because they are incompetent. I don't give a monkey a camera and expect them to produce Citizen Kane, I expect them to break the camera and then start to fling poo. I have the same expectation for the Congress - both libs and cons.

#148 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 06:08 AM | Reply

"I have the same expectation for the Congress - both libs and cons."

Obama exceeded your expectations then, in terms of leading Congress to enact his legislation.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:09 AM | Reply

"Obama was able to get them to pass Obamacare.
#147 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

Because sometimes the greed of the congress can outweigh their innate incompetence. Just too many healthcare $'s for them to pass up. So, the 1 or 2 Dems with functioning brain cells tells their party how they must vote so they can keep that lobbying money flowing in. Much like the party must do with AOC today. They point her in the direction they want and demand she vote the way they want or she is back to bartending or dancing with a pole.

#150 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 06:12 AM | Reply

"Because sometimes the greed of the congress can outweigh their innate incompetence. Just too many healthcare $'s for them to pass up."

Why couldn't Trump harness that greed?
Trump clearly wasn't as good a leader as Obama, by your own standards.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:14 AM | Reply

Why did you claim Trump made us energy independent? In 2020, US imported 7.86 million barrels of oil... a day. www.eia.gov

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:15 AM | Reply

"Why did you claim Trump made us energy independent? In 2020, US imported 7.86 million barrels of oil... a day. www.eia.gov
#152 | POSTED BY SNOOFY "

Because energy independence means net petroleum products, not just oil. So, our exports exceeded our imports.

#153 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 06:37 AM | Reply

"Because energy independence means net petroleum products, not just oil. So, our exports exceeded our imports."

The notion of American energy independence is marketing for fools who willingly forget the concept of private property.
America is dependent on companies like ExxonMobil and ConocoPhillips for our oil.
It's not America's oil. It's theirs.

True energy independence is something you would oppose with every fiber of your being.
If we had a national oil company like Gazprom or Petrobras, you could make the claim of independence.

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 06:47 AM | Reply

"The notion of American energy independence is marketing for fools who willingly forget the concept of private property.
#154 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

LOL. You are just too obtuse to understand what the term means. Just like your first attempt at looking solely at oil.

The reasons why American energy independence is a good this is:
1.) We don't need to rely on foreign countries for energy when they can become hostile powers or they could shut down our economy by stopping our ability to have foreign imports
2.) If the US produces excess energy, it leads to low global oil prices which takes money out of the hands of those countries that hate us (Russia, Middle East, Canada, etc). Biden's moronic policy driving oil above $80 is funding terrorism and Russia.
3.) Low energy prices raise the standard of living globally - African life expectancy shoots up with the availability of cheap electricity

#155 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 06:56 AM | Reply

"We don't need to rely on foreign countries for energy"

We rely on multinational corporations for energy. Who sell it to the highest bidder.
Why not just rely on America?

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 07:04 AM | Reply

"If the US produces excess energy, it leads to low global oil prices"

Only if we engage in international trade.
And if we do that... then we aren't independent. We're globalist.

#157 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 07:12 AM | Reply

Also, if Saudi Arabia wants the price of oil to go up, then they produce less and the price of oil goes up.

The United States can't move the market like that. Largely because our consumption is mostly on par with our production.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 07:23 AM | Reply

"In this case (this thread) the argument is narrow - a HUGE deal was made over the fact that Manafort shared polling data (our media inserted "sensitive" without any attribution) with Kilminick. "

The use of "sensitive" to describe the polling data comes from two sources, emphasis mine:

The U.S. Treasury Department said Thursday that Konstantin Kilimnik, an associate and ex-employee of Paul Manafort, "provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy," during the 2016 election, an apparently definitive statement that neither Special Counsel Robert Mueller nor the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation made in their final reports.

and:

The 966-page Senate Intelligence Committee report, for its part, stated that[:]

The Committee was unable to reliably determine why Manafort shared sensitive internal polling data or Campaign strategy with Kilimnik or with whom Kilimnik further shared that information. The Committee had limited insight into Kilimnik's communications with Manafort and into Kilimnik's communications with other individuals connected to Russian influence operations, all of whom used communications security practices. The Committee obtained some information suggesting Kilimnik may have been connected to the GRU's hack and leak operation targeting the 2016 U.S. election.

www.justsecurity.org

#159 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 07:42 AM | Reply

"B) the nefarious polling data was nothing more that a couple of numbers that were publicly available via RCP polling averages."

I don't know what was in the polling data, but it sounds like more than just "a couple of numbers":

Paul Manafort Gave Konstantin Kilimnik 75 Pages of Polling Data, Docs Suggest

Redacted court filings suggest that Paul Manafort gave Konstantin Kilimnik--whom Special Counsel Robert Mueller has alleged is a Russian spy--75 pages of recent polling data.

www.thedailybeast.com

#160 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 07:49 AM | Reply

"His claims (yes, he could be lying but we have almost zero proof that he is lying) are that, A) he has no meaningful connection to Putin;"

How about to a Russian oligrach like Oleg Deripaska, who does have close ties to Putin?

#161 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 07:58 AM | Reply

"It was shocking to learn that nobody in the Mueller investigative team, the Senate committee or the media even bothered to talk to Kilminick"

He Says He's an Innocent Victim. Robert Mueller Says He's a Spy.
April 6, 2018

Asked in the interview about the allegation of ties to Russian intelligence agencies, Mr. Kilimnik said, "I vehemently deny it."

www.nytimes.com

#162 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 08:18 AM | Reply

Hard to talk to someone who doesn't want to talk:

'Person A' In His Own Words: On The Record With Shadowy Operative In Russia Probe

April 06, 2018

Kilimnik, who has not been charged with a crime, has kept his head down since media started making the connection to Person A. But before he emerged in the Trump-Russia investigation, Kilimnik did go on record -- denying, for example, having ties to Russian spy agencies.

In February 2017, this RFE/RL reporter conducted the first in-person interview with Kilimnik. The interview led to an additional face-to-face meeting, several phone calls, and dozens of text messages over the course of nine months in 2017.

Kilimnik cut communication in late September, as Mueller's investigation ramped up and shortly after RFE/RL's publication of his comments in a story about Oleg Deripaska, a Russian billionaire with close ties to the Kremlin who was involved in business ventures with Manafort, and whom Manafort offered private briefings on the 2016 presidential race, via Kilimnik.


www.rferl.org

#163 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 08:26 AM | Reply

crossfire hurricane. You said you where a political operative. How much did you make off it Gal? My civil rights where violated with censorship for political reasons.

#164 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-10-15 08:31 AM | Reply

"Russia, if your listening ... ."

Yeah sure there was no collusion

#165 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-10-15 08:33 AM | Reply

"You said you where a political operative. How much did you make off it Gal?"

Nope and nada.

#166 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 08:34 AM | Reply

My civil rights where violated with censorship for political reasons.

#164 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

You should sue sue SUE!

Like a good little Trumpy do.

#167 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-15 09:19 AM | Reply

"You should sue sue SUE!"

Yeah, sue Sue and leave me out of it.

#168 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2021-10-15 09:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Nope and nada.

#166 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

So you sold your soul for nothing at all.

#169 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-10-15 09:42 AM | Reply

So you sold your soul for nothing at all.

#169 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

So that makes one wonder ... what IS the going rate?

How much did YOU get?

#170 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-15 09:45 AM | Reply

#170 | Posted by donnerboy

Dude. I worship Cthulhu. I get your soul.

#171 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-10-15 09:48 AM | Reply

*eat, not get.

#172 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-10-15 10:06 AM | Reply

H.P. Lovecraft was a racist tool also.

#173 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-15 10:54 AM | Reply

"Paul Manafort Gave Konstantin Kilimnik 75 Pages of Polling Data, Docs Suggest"

That would certainly help with the astroturf targeted ads on social media. Some of which were parroted by "independents" right here on the DR.

#174 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 12:58 PM | Reply

"The results of the Durham Report will be that people will finally understand you cannot count on the justice system to actually work. "

A year ago, you were claiming the "results of the Durham Report" would have the trio being frog-marched.

Is this yet ANOTHER example of you making a dumbass statement, only be proven embarrassingly wrong???

#175 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:29 PM | Reply

"we have Joe Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired "

You're like a word salad spinner, with talking points thrown in, and puke barfed out. If you can't outright lie, you'll purposely mislead.

#176 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 01:44 PM | Reply

"H.P. Lovecraft was a racist tool also."

Did anyone really not guess that based on his fictional works?

#177 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-15 01:51 PM | Reply

"You want to defund the police... but when Trump funds the police, that's good!"

If Ima SchittttTturd didn't have double-standards, he'd have no standards at all.

#178 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-15 06:38 PM | Reply

danforth this thread has been hijacked.

The new topic is Lovecraft.

#179 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-15 07:10 PM | Reply

Even honest Trump haters recognize it.

#29 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Should be easy enough to name them, yet your post leaves us wondering if they actually exist.

That in and of itself is quite using, BELLY.

#180 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-10-15 08:43 PM | Reply

""we have Joe Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired "
You're like a word salad spinner, with talking points thrown in, and puke barfed out. If you can't outright lie, you'll purposely mislead.
#176 | POSTED BY "SQUIRTS" DANFROTH"

Squirts, you really want to argue that Biden did not get a Ukrainian prosecutor fired? Really? Just how deep does your "head in the arse" condition extend? These aren't even debatable points - this is a straight up fact.

#181 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-15 08:45 PM | Reply

Even honest Trump haters recognize it.

#29 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Should be easy enough to name them, yet your post leaves us wondering if they actually exist.

That in and of itself is quite using, BELLY.

#180 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2021-10-15 08:43 PM

I can name three without even digging:

Matt Taibbi
Glenn Greenwald
Michael Tracy

Throw in Sharryl Atkisson for good measure. Hell, even Eric Wemple at Washington Post sheepishly acknowledged some of this.

#182 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 08:56 PM | Reply

This has been fascinating to watch.

Trump is a loathsome person.

On character alone he was completely unfit for the presidency. I'm glad he's gone - we deserve better

Because of that, a ridiculous and scandalous narrative was peddled for year with the FBI and DOJ being thoroughly corrupted trying to build a false narrative that Trump was a Putin puppet. When that fell apart a segment of the left bitterly clung to that narrative anyway. The really fun thing is when Hunter and Joe Biden have far more concerning ties to foreign entities to the point of potential blackmail and whatnot the entire media complex including Big Tech shuts it all down.

This unholy marriage between Big Tech, most of the media and the Democratic Party is not sustainable. It got Trump out of office and now Biden is such an epic disaster we will likely see a shellacking in 2022 with an increased animosity toward the tech giants and news media giants.

#183 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-15 09:04 PM | Reply

"Because of that, a ridiculous and scandalous narrative was peddled for year with the FBI and DOJ being thoroughly corrupted trying to build a false narrative that Trump was a Putin puppet."

The other day, Trump said he isn't into golden showers.

You believe him?

#184 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-15 11:16 PM | Reply

Bwahahahaha. That what dbag Putin tell you Russian dupes? AHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

#185 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-15 11:21 PM | Reply

"This unholy marriage between Big Tech, most of the media and the Democratic Party is not sustainable. It got Trump out of office "

LOL.
It got Trump into office.
It got the UK out of the EU.
It got Deplorables to storm The Capitol.
It got hundreds of thousands of people dead from COVID-19.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-16 01:49 AM | Reply

"Because of that, a ridiculous and scandalous narrative was peddled for year with the FBI and DOJ being thoroughly corrupted trying to build a false narrative"

Trumpy and his minions built that "narrative " and encouraged it.

It's pretty simple comrade Ding Dong.

While Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation found that Russia interfered in the election in an effort to undermine the Clinton campaign, no one in Trump's orbit " or "any American" for that matter, Barr added " knowingly assisted Russia in that effort.

That's even in Barr's famous false summary.

But while Mueller may not have found any evidence that Trump associates conspired with Russia to interfere in the election, they nonetheless had a lot of contact with Russians leading up to Election Day. In fact, investigators have found that Trump and at least 17 of his campaign officials and advisors had more than 100 contacts between Trump associates and Russians, belying the campaign's November 2016 claim that "there was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign." According to reporting, many others associated with Trump were told about contacts with Russian-linked individuals.

time.com

Like I always say ... If you don't want to be investigated and wiretapped by the FBI and the DOJ then don't hang out with known Russian spies.

#187 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-16 01:28 PM | Reply

In fact, investigators have found that Trump and at least 17 of his campaign officials and advisors had more than 100 contacts between Trump associates and Russians, belying the campaign's November 2016 claim that "there was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign."

More than 100 contacts with the Russians during the campaign.

But whatever you do. Don't call it COLLUSION!

#188 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-16 01:31 PM | Reply

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