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Friday, October 22, 2021

Is it advisable for one who is not an expert on economic and social issues to express views on the subject of socialism? I believe for a number of reasons that it is.


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Let us first consider the question from the point of view of scientific knowledge. It might appear that there are no essential methodological differences between astronomy and economics: scientists in both fields attempt to discover laws of general acceptability for a circumscribed group of phenomena in order to make the interconnection of these phenomena as clearly understandable as possible. But in reality such methodological differences do exist. The discovery of general laws in the field of economics is made difficult by the circumstance that observed economic phenomena are often affected by many factors which are very hard to evaluate separately. In addition, the experience which has accumulated since the beginning of the so-called civilized period of human history has"as is well known"been largely influenced and limited by causes which are by no means exclusively economic in nature. For example, most of the major states of history owed their existence to conquest. The conquering peoples established themselves, legally and economically, as the privileged class of the conquered country. They seized for themselves a monopoly of the land ownership and appointed a priesthood from among their own ranks. The priests, in control of education, made the class division of society into a permanent institution and created a system of values by which the people were thenceforth, to a large extent unconsciously, guided in their social behavior.


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While you're at it why don't you quote from a caveman? Einstein's world no longer exists.

#1 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-22 03:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Dumb. The world is the world. Cavemen had insights, so did Einstein. Their world's are not gone, they are part of the world today in a process of continual change, nothing is lost, everything is retained and developed upon.

Obsolescence is a false paradigm.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-22 04:58 PM | Reply

Dumb. The world is the world. Cavemen had insights, so did Einstein. Their world's are not gone, they are part of the world today in a process of continual change, nothing is lost, everything is retained and developed upon.

Obsolescence is a false paradigm.

#3 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-22 04:58 PM | Reply

Ever read about all the Heartbreak and anguish I'm on the far left in America when the Soviet Union began to admit to all the horrendous Crimes of the Soviet Union?

#4 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-22 05:21 PM | Reply

When does the United States admit all the horrendous crimes of the United States?

I haven't seen it, have you?

#5 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-22 06:57 PM | Reply

You people should really watch the film The Death of Stalin you would really be relieved too much of your ignorance if you did so.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-22 07:22 PM | Reply

Even if Stalin and socialism are monstrous. Which I agree they were.

The US has its own crimes. Just because the soviets were evil doesn't mean America can't be.

Is capitalism pure? Are "free markets" the answer to life's ills?

Are you one of those America is the greatest types?

America is deeply flawed. Militarism and love of war have poisoned us. No accountabilty for horrible war crimes abroad and severe mismanagement at home. Americans are never wrong? We are the EXCEPTIONAL nation.

#7 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-22 08:59 PM | Reply

Topic is socialism not America's f*** ups.

#8 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-22 09:33 PM | Reply

Socialism is not all bad. Hyperindividualism is not a pretty thing. It leads to maskholes,and vaxx deniers. America showed it's ass on covid,worst response of any leading nation.

Socialist countries fared better. They had fewer deaths per capita. Some sense of a common good Is nescessary for any society to function and our's increasingly isn't.

Why the big bugaboo about soshulism now?

It's hardly a new thing. What's up man?

#9 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-22 10:54 PM | Reply

Oh yeah these are so much better in Nigeria India and Venezuela.

#10 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-22 11:10 PM | Reply

People who claim that Al was talking about the kind of Bernie-esque social programs or the social democracies of Northern Europe (who vote themselves the Happiest People in the World every year)...

... are still lying. And, unless they are utterly stupid people, they know they are lying.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-22 11:21 PM | Reply

What I found was that Al was attempting to make a favorable argument for socialism without discussing economics.

The Soviets weren't evil. At least most of them. They just put their cause as being more important than the people they claimed to be helping. Had the Kulaks duly followed the orders of the Soviet government, they would have almost certainly been left alone. The evil ones, like Beria, recognized that being an important cog in an authoritarian system had certain benefits. Like being able to rape women without being held accountable. Same with Saddam Hussein's sons. At the other end of the spectrum you have people like Augusto Pinochet, who was loyal to Allende right up to the point he realized Allende's government was over. Then he quickly became the most staunch anti-communist, eliminating those enemies and allies who stood against his authoritarian rule.

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-23 06:02 AM | Reply

Ask the crimeans if communism was evil

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-23 06:17 AM | Reply

Ask the Venezuelans if America isn't evil. Ask the Cubans if America believes in free trade. Ask the Iraqis if America a peaceful nation. Ask the Iranians if America is honest.

Predatory nation. If you were not American yourself would you see a force for good in American policies? Capitalism is just one way of organizing economic development. It's not the only way.But it seeks to Be the Only Way.

Sanctions,War, Coups, the American Way is to destroy Any possible alternative to our own ------ system.

Our news is so bad we can't get the truth about anything. How do you know you haven't been lied to about everything you "know" about Venezuela, or Iran or Iraq. Certainly Cuba has been propagandized, who knows what the truth even is at this point.

#14 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-23 10:22 AM | Reply

The Venezuelans are wishing they were living in America.

Same with the Cubans.

Socialism failed.

#15 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-23 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If Republicans get their way, the Social Contract will fail too. Because they will unilaterally repeal it.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-23 11:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Did socialism fail, or was it strangled in the cradle by American sanctions and acts of war?

Which Venezuelans and Cubans do you speak for?

Are they the ones already here? Or people in their own countries minding their own business?

How do you know what ALL Venezeulans or Cubans think?

We have tremendous variety of opinion and outlook here,why would Venezuela or Cuba be any different. Are all Americans Trump lovers? Does everyone support Biden?

Dude,you're full of ---- on so many levels.

Your hatred of socialism is not fact based. It is a religious like belief based on faith alone.

Grow up.

#17 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-23 12:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Have you not attention to the news? Venezuela turned to crap is Sue The Cult of Personality down there failed.

Am I completely justifiable suspicion of socialism has nothing to do with religion it has to do with two Infamous countries both proclaiming themselves to be socialists.

#18 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-23 12:16 PM | Reply

"Did socialism fail, or was it strangled in the cradle by American sanctions and acts of war?"

Socialism defeated Hitler.
We helped, but Socialism did the heavy lifting.

These days, it seems like people who don't like Socialism are the ones who wanted Hitler to win.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-23 12:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

What cult of personality? That would be Trump? Not Maduro. Maduro showed great restraint in dealing with Guido and his false claims of presidency. Hell, they didn't even arrest the guy after he broke numerous laws. Would that happen here?

The Venezuelan government has never been given the chance to govern without sanctions and sabotage from the US and it's allies. We have no
idea how life would be there without outside meddling to undermine them. For all you know the system could work fine if unimpeded by imperialist outside sabotage.

Cuba too. We have ------ with them from day one. Batista was a money-grubbing oligarch who drove the country to communism by squashing the aspirations of the working class to enrich the elites. That was better? For whom?

American business interests. They bought and paid for policy in Cuba. They got pissed when Fidel was not for sale.

The rest was history.

#20 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-23 12:32 PM | Reply

The cult of personality do not survive Hugo Chavez and Cuba doesn't suck because of America it sucks all on its own.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-23 03:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So,no cult of personality in Venezuela, Chavez was the last of that. He died years ago. So WTF?

Maduro is hardly charismatic, he was a bus driver,before getting elected,yes,elected, president.

Cuba, is a different story.Fidel was a dictator, not a president. Still we know so little about what Cuba really is. The lying never stops about Cuba. I don't know what to believe.

All in All I'm on the fence about socialism.

It's not evil incarnate, clearly.

#22 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-23 04:05 PM | Reply

There are good and bad parts of socialism and capitalism and communism.
Communism is okay for families and communes. Capitalism is best for rewarding allocation of resources, Socialism is best for society services.

My family is communist, my income is enabled via capitalism and I use socialism services like roads, hospitals, police, fire fighters, health inspection, safety inspection, etc.

#23 | Posted by bored at 2021-10-23 04:28 PM | Reply


"Einstein's world no longer exists."

Even experts are wrong.

I once read the people who were creating the original technology for the internet that was text based didn't imagine it would grow beyond that. They actually believed the internet wouldn't be good for commerce. They were wrong.

Or...Bill Gates chose not to write a browser because he believed the internet wouldn't take off until broadband was available. Gates didn't believe it would take off with dial-up. He was wrong.

We learning as we go.

With time society is changing some for the better and a lot for the worse.

But one thing is certain. There will not be enough jobs for everyone to make a living wage.

People who hold jobs will not be able to take care of themselves, meet their needs and drive an economy.

A minimum universal income or subsidy is inevitable regardless where you stand on the subject politically.

However, people still need to be accountable and must contribute to society.

There's a lot that needs to be negotiated in the future about the responsibilities of the government and the governed.

The great free for all the Democrats want and the do or die society the Republicans want are both untenable.

#24 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-10-24 12:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good post Bill Johnson, I underestimated you. Too bad you're a Trumpilstilskin. I guess you can still renounce the dark side.

#25 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-24 07:18 PM | Reply

Tell me where socialism has worked.

#26 | Posted by Sniper at 2021-10-25 11:17 AM | Reply

"Tell me where socialism has worked."

Worked at what?

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-25 11:22 AM | Reply

Berlin, 1945. Socialism beat the Nazis.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-25 11:23 AM | Reply

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