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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, October 25, 2021

Axing either of the two provisions would infuriate progressives and alienate valuable voting blocs. Yet the party might just have to.

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Why not do nothing? That would cost nothing? No need for asskissing two senators who will remain nameless. Just punt. Isn't that what the two holdouts claim they want? Just do that. They will freak. Don't negotiate with terrorists.

Bring the bill back later after the --------- abates. They will be on board, or at least more reasonable.

#1 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-25 05:14 PM | Reply

Ditch the expansion and paid leave.

#2 | Posted by Sniper at 2021-10-25 05:25 PM | Reply

The deficit is shrinking under Biden.

Trump claimed he'd eliminate the entire national debt "like water" but added 8 TRILLION in debt over 4 years despite inheriting a great economy from Obama.

This follows a long pattern where Republicans scream about the debt, get elected, run it up to the sky, and a Democrat has to clean it up and get deficits back down again.

#3 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-10-25 06:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ditch the expansion and paid leave.

#2 | POSTED BY SNIPER

You're a little bitch.

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-10-25 08:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a compelling argument. You must have studied forensics at a college level.

#5 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-10-25 08:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Yeah, according to these billionaire's puppet rwingers we have around here, Americans should not only not get what they want politicians to do, they shouldn't even know what's in the Bill.

"When making the case for progressive policy, the veteran leftwing senator Bernie Sanders often cites public opinion. "Poll after poll," he'll say, before running through a list of ambitious initiatives that the "vast majority of the American people want", from lowering the cost of prescription drug prices to expanding Medicare, establishing paid family and medical leave and confronting the climate crisis."

Versions of these programs " initiatives once considered nothing more than liberal pipe dreams " are at the heart of Joe Biden's sprawling domestic policy bill pending before Congress. But despite the popularity of the specific proposals, the legislation has a polling problem. Poll after poll shows that most Americans have no idea what's actually in the bill.

Rankled, Sanders convened a live panel discussion on Wednesday titled What's in the Damn Bill?. To the tens of thousands of viewers who joined the broadcast, Sanders described the Democrats' multitrillion-dollar spending package as a once-in-a-generation opportunity to rebuild the American economy in a fairer and more equitable way.

"This is not radical stuff," he said. "This is finally doing right by the American working class and having the courage to stand up to big-money interests."

www.theguardian.com

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-25 08:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dems want to pass legislation of this nature?

They need to win more elections because it's not happening with their slimmest of slim majorities.

#7 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-25 10:21 PM | Reply

I don't want Biden to bend an inch. Manchin is slowly getting bent over a barrel and Sinema's staff has convinced her she's being an obstructionist.

#8 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-10-26 03:58 AM | Reply

"Rankled, Sanders convened a live panel discussion on Wednesday titled What's in the Damn Bill?. To the tens of thousands of viewers who joined the broadcast
#6 | POSTED BY CORKY"

He is just preaching to the choir here and will have no impact.

The problem with the Dem big tent is the free stuff for everyone will eventually alienate part of the supporters that think someone else is getting more than them. Unfortunately, because a majority are societal parasites, they never stop to think about the taxpayers that will have to fund their free stuff.

The reality is that we live in a world of finite supply and infinite demand. Everyone wants free health care - but a majority don't want rationing of healthcare which is the logical result. Most would support free university tuition - just not at the current inflated prices where the cost of the education far outweighs the benefits. So, free college is great - just make the college looks like those free famous European universities like......ummm, there has to be at least 1 in Germany....I hope you can all get the point.

I would apply the same thinking to well-funded public schools. We all want our kids to have a great place to learn - but when more and more the spending is turning into basic parenting (3x meals a day year round, babysitting rather than active classes - which is the reality given student achievement), a lot will start to opt out - which includes about 100% of the upper class Dems. They run the damn public school boards and yet send their kids to private schools.

#9 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-10-26 06:13 AM | Reply

Dude we got rationing of healthcare now. I waited three years to get a massive hernia fixed and I nearly died when it strangulated, which was the only way I got it fixed, by the way.

If people have to wait a little so others like me can get their issues addressed in months, not years, and without almost dying, I see that as a huge improvement. Poor people die 15 years younger than the rich in this country.

The sense of entitlement is coming from well off people who don't want any inconvienence in their lives, not from poor people who just want proper healthcare to survive. There is no sense of a common good in this country and the rich are leading the charge on that.

Other countries manage to create public healthcare systems that don't bankrupt the nation and we could too if the will was there.

It's not because too many Americans are invested in themselves alone. They are selfish and entitled without any social awareness.

Trump pushed that to new extremes. He feeds on human malice and hate like a vampire. Most evil ----------- to attain high office in my lifetime and that's saying a lot.

The repukes are a cult of selfishness and a force for evil.

The Dems aren't perfect but they sure as hell are better than that!

#10 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-26 07:58 AM | Reply

But despite the popularity of the specific proposals, the legislation has a polling problem. Poll after poll shows that most Americans have no idea what's actually in the bill.

The democrats should be on every single news show every day hammering home what is in the bill, but what happens is the shows are clogged with right wing meatheads who are making excuse after excuse for the traitors that tried to destroy our democracy on 1/6.

#11 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-10-26 10:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You'd have to know what was really in the bill. It is 2500 pages.

The only thing people care about right now is inflation.

#12 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-10-26 12:41 PM | Reply

" The only thing people care about right now is inflation."

Why, then, are precious metals lagging?

#13 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 01:02 PM | Reply

Dems want to pass legislation of this nature?

They need to win more elections because it's not happening with their slimmest of slim majorities.

#7 | Posted by BellRinger

How can they win more elections when your cult has rewritten laws so they can just throw out votes they don't like?

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-26 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Public sentiment doesn't care about that either.

Inflation & Covid are the two dominant issues. Covid cases are trending down. Food & energy inflation is going up. 12.6% year of year for meat, without accounting for transportation costs. On transportation, 42.6% Year Over Year increase for fuel oil. Nat Gas US prices went from $3 to climbing to $6 just from Jun to September. If it goes down then sentiment will shift.

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-10-26 01:35 PM | Reply

So progressives should block the whole thing, especially the 'traditional' infrastructure bill. I do not care AT ALL about the road funding, the medicare expansion and tax increases on the rich are absolutely the most important parts of all of this.

#16 | Posted by DarkVader at 2021-10-26 01:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Normals: We're concerned about inflation.

Leftists: Let's print 3.5 trillion dollars.

#17 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-10-26 02:29 PM | Reply

" Leftists: Let's print 3.5 trillion dollars."

Realists: Righties just passed a tax bill to borrow an additional 10% of all the debt rung up since 1776, just to give away in tax cuts.

If you're truly worried about the debt, repeal the Trump tax giveaways.

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 02:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Normals: We're concerned about inflation.

Leftists: Let's print 3.5 trillion dollars.

#17 | Posted by visitor_

Normals: Lets invest in the future of our society and improve the lives of the working class.

Your cult: No lets just give tax cuts to the rich and replace democracy with fascism.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-26 03:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Dems want to pass legislation of this nature?

They need to win more elections because it's not happening with their slimmest of slim majorities.
#7 | Posted by BellRinger
--------------
How can they win more elections when your cult has rewritten laws so they can just throw out votes they don't like?

#14 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2021-10-26 01:12 PM

That sounds like 'stop the steal' insurrectionist talk.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 04:31 PM | Reply

Expand Medicare and work on paid leave some other year.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-26 05:14 PM | Reply

That sounds like 'stop the steal' insurrectionist talk.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger

Except one is based in fact and the other was the lies of a con man.
Anyone with a brain can see the difference.

Republicans ARE replacing democracy with fascism anywhere they have the power to do so.
Democrats did NOT steal the election.

Trump's lie about democrats isn't equal to our truth about republicans.

#22 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-26 06:14 PM | Reply

"The reality is that we live in a world of finite supply and infinite demand."

My goodness...

...it's almost like you took an economics class or something.

#23 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-26 10:47 PM | Reply

"I waited three years to get a massive hernia fixed and I nearly died when it strangulated, which was the only way I got it fixed, by the way."

Really?

I waited three months. My buddy is having similar surgery next week.

He waited two months.

What country do you live in?

#24 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-26 10:49 PM | Reply

#10 - " I waited three years to get a massive hernia fixed "

The VA found a subinguinal hernia in me and it was repaired less than 2 weeks later. I don't think I could have gone three years of poking my guts up out of my -------- several times a day as I did until it was repaired.

#25 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-26 10:57 PM | Reply

You have no idea. Healthcare in America for the uninsured is a sad joke. I almost died when it strangulated but got to the hospital in time to avoid major complications. Worst pain I ever felt. I got maximum morphine and Dilaudid and It did almost nothing for the pain.

One day in the hospital, May 12,2018. $28,000 hospital bill plus $3000 anesthesiology bill.

One good thing. I never paid anything.They gave me financial assistance.I still never paid and they forgave the whole bill. No lawsuits,no judgements.

I got lucky,but I had to be a deadbeat to get lucky.

Terrible System.

#26 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-27 12:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#26 - I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Still, living three years with a hernia must be hell. I assume you had a truss. I remember my grandfather wearing one as part of his daily dress. My dad told me how he (my grandfather) showed him (my dad) his ------- filled with his guts before he put the truss on.

#27 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-27 12:05 AM | Reply

No truss. The hernia was too big. When fully extended the tip of the bulge was halfway to the knee. The surgeon said I might lose my right Nut but thankfully it didn't happen.

Now I have small hernia on the left side that hasn't ruptured yet, but it will eventually.

It was probably caused by the other hernia being so big and displacing my guts for so long.

I'm still not insured.

#28 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-27 12:15 AM | Reply

Jesus, dude. That's horrible.

I was told 10 years ago my other side was going to rupture, but it hasn't het. My PCP checks it every six months, and I do my own version of "turn your head and cough".

I hope you don't go three years when the next side goes.

Did they open you up, or was it laparoscopic? I chose the former, but only because my old doctor said he was more familiar with it. But next time, I'm going laparoscopic. The healing process for opening me up was not pleasant. I oozed blood for three or four days.

#29 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-27 12:26 AM | Reply

#10 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER
#24 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER
#25 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

WTH are you all doing that leads to hernias? Is this something to be expected in regular life in my years ahead?

#30 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-10-27 12:36 AM | Reply

No truss. The hernia was too big. When fully extended the tip of the bulge was halfway to the knee. The surgeon said I might lose my right Nut but thankfully it didn't happen. #28 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Reading this hurt my internals - glad to read you're doing better-ish, but damn..

#31 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-10-27 12:39 AM | Reply

"I got lucky,but I had to be a deadbeat to get lucky. Terrible System."

Really?

A system where you get life-saving healthcare for free is a terrible system?

Really?

#32 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 12:43 AM | Reply

#30 - I'm pretty sure in my case it is hereditary. My dad and grandfather suffered from them.

#33 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-27 12:48 AM | Reply

"WTH are you all doing that leads to hernias? Is this something to be expected in regular life in my years ahead?"

Unless you do nothing more than spend your days typing on this -------- site, then expect a hernia.

If you engage in any sort of dangerous activity commonly known as physical fitness, expect a hernia at some point.

The doctors will mesh you up, you'll hurt for a week or two...but it will be worth it.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 12:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

When it happens, you'll think it's stomach cancer.

Don't listen to WebMD.

#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 12:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dude I had to get EMERGENCY surgery to get treated at all. So Yeah, it's a ------ system.

Talk to me when you go THREE ------- YEARS with a timebomb in your junk just waiting to kill you at any time.

You don't know ----, people complain about "rationing" of healthcare, long waiting times of a few months at most.

---- OFF.

#36 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-27 12:56 AM | Reply

The preceding posts are proof that we need to expend Medicare if only to provide further Mental Health Services to the insane.

#37 | Posted by Tor at 2021-10-27 12:57 AM | Reply

" Unless you do nothing more than spend your days typing on this -------- site, then expect a hernia.

Everything wears out eventually.
~my (retired MD) brother

#38 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 12:59 AM | Reply

"Dude I had to get EMERGENCY surgery to get treated at all. So Yeah, it's a ------ system."

Really?

You never thought about going to a doctor and telling them that you had a problem?

Or is it just ------ because someone else isn't legally on the hook to pay for your problems?

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 01:04 AM | Reply

"---- OFF."

Your moniker serves you well.

Cuckposter would also work though...if you need two accounts.

#40 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 01:05 AM | Reply

#38

Your brother was an MD?

And you majored in interpretive dance?

Well...I guess being the black sheep of a wealthy family still has it's advantages.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 01:08 AM | Reply

Go ahead, bait me, if it makes you feel better. I'm just too cheap and stupid to deal with it,Is that right?

Doctor's don't work for free. Unless of course you have the VA waiting to attend to your every need as it arises.

Do you know anything about actual want?

You sound like a spoiled brat. Choke on it -----.

#42 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-10-27 01:14 AM | Reply

" Your brother was an MD?"

Yes, as is his wife.

"And you majored in interpretive dance?"

No, I majored in Performing Arts. Then I earned pensions both as a stage actor and as a VO/commercial artist.

"I guess being the black sheep of a wealthy family still has it's advantages."

WTF are you blathering about? I grew up dirt poor, in a family of six in a 2 bed, 1bath house.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 01:18 AM | Reply

Unless of course you have the VA waiting to attend to your every need as it arises.

#42 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2021-10-27 01:14 AM | FLAG:

You wait on the VA, and I can't help but notice their patients have a very high suicide rate.

#44 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-10-27 09:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#4 - No, you don't. At least you don't have to wait very long. Trump's Mission Act says that if a VA clinic or doctor cannot see you within 30 days, the VA has to send the patient to a third party civilian doctor.

This legislation came about after a veteran in Arizona died because the VA didn't see him in a timely matter.

As a veteran who uses VA health care, I can confirm this is true.

I don't think the high suicide rate of veterans has anything to do with waiting to see a doctor. I think they stem from PTSD issues with which civilians generally don't deal.

#45 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-27 09:10 AM | Reply

What the Democrats should do is propose a VAT to fund Medicare expansion and whatever else they want to put on the table.

I keep hearing that these things are popular with the public, but I don't really believe it until I see the public being willing to pay for it. Like they do throughout the western world.

It appears to me that the Biden wants to spend more by taxing an increasingly smaller percentage of the population.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 01:16 PM | Reply

It appears to me that the Biden wants to spend more by taxing an increasingly smaller percentage of the population.

#46 | Posted by madbomber

Yeah because that's the logical thing to do when that increasingly smaller percentage of the population has sucked up most of the wealth in the country.

Who do you think it makes more sense to tax? People who are struggling more than ever before, or people who are richer than ever before?

Think hard now. Use both brain cells....

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 01:52 PM | Reply

I don't think the high suicide rate of veterans has anything to do with waiting to see a doctor. I think they stem from PTSD issues with which civilians generally don't deal.

#45 | Posted by jakester

Yeah resulting from the decisions of the last republican president before trump who started a war to impress his daddy. The guy you used to defend under your old usernames.

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 01:53 PM | Reply

Normals: We're concerned about inflation.

Leftists: Let's print 3.5 trillion dollars.

#17 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-10-26 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag

Normals: We're concerned about inflation.

Cancervatives: Let's print $2.3 trillion dollars to give to corporations and billionaires and print $7 trillion for the MIC.

#49 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-10-27 02:13 PM | Reply

At this point Biden really just needs them to pass something. If they are able to expand their control of the Senate in 2022, they can take another shot at an expanded infrastructure bill.

#50 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-10-27 03:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Yeah because that's the logical thing to do when that increasingly smaller percentage of the population has sucked up most of the wealth in the country."

By sucking up you mean earned, right?

It was not forcibly confiscated from someone else and given to them, was it?

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 07:10 PM | Reply

"Who do you think it makes more sense to tax?"

Everyone. Just like they do in western Europe.

So I'll ask you directly. Would you support Build Back Better if it was funded by a VAT?

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 07:11 PM | Reply

"Yeah resulting from the decisions of the last republican president before trump who started a war to impress his daddy."

Wow.

As best as I can tell, the Obama administration was not much more than an extension of the Bush administration. Especially when it came to wars. Obama seems to have been just as fond of them.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 07:13 PM | Reply

"Yeah because that's the logical thing to do when that increasingly smaller percentage of the population has sucked up most of the wealth in the country."

By sucking up you mean earned, right?

It was not forcibly confiscated from someone else and given to them, was it?

#51 | Posted by madbomber

No by sucking up I mean bribing politicans to write laws to further enrich themselves at the expense of the working class. I mean genius business school grads using their brains to come up with new fine print and financial schemes to trick people out of money instead of using their brains to actually improve society. I mean plutocrat corporations buying up all the homes and driving up prices to turn the working class in to permanent renters. I mean finding new ways to track every second of their worker's time so that they can't even go to the bathroom so the CEO can get a bonus.

Leave it to suckers like you to think these people don't deserve to pay more to support the society they're ruining.

#54 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 08:28 PM | Reply

"Yeah resulting from the decisions of the last republican president before trump who started a war to impress his daddy."

Wow.

As best as I can tell, the Obama administration was not much more than an extension of the Bush administration. Especially when it came to wars. Obama seems to have been just as fond of them.

#53 | Posted by madbomber

Yeah when a republican starts a stupid war for no reason, it's democrats' fault for not having a magic wand to end it responsibly.

How much whining did you do about biden ending the afghanistan disaster?

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 08:29 PM | Reply

I don't think the high suicide rate of veterans has anything to do with waiting to see a doctor.
#45 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

I do.
If they would see a doctor when they are thinking about killing themselves, there would be an intervention.
Of course, thanks to gun nuts, the doctor wouldn't be allowed to ask if they own a gun, which is a huge risk factor for suicide. But I digress.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 08:33 PM | Reply

So I'll ask you directly. Would you support Build Back Better if it was funded by a VAT?
#52 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Probably not.
It should be funded by a progressive tax.
Not a flat rate consumption tax which is necessarily regressive due to the dynamics of spending and wealth accumulation.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 08:37 PM | Reply

"consumption tax which is necessarily regressive"

Bingo.

Somebody understands the equation.

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 08:39 PM | Reply

"No by sucking up I mean bribing politicans to write laws to further enrich themselves at the expense of the working class."

There is nothing that Jeff Bezos can do to alter the value of anyone's labor. The only person that can alter the value of one's labor is the person themselves.

Economics.

"Leave it to suckers like you to think these people don't deserve to pay more to support the society they're ruining."

They deserve whatever amount the value of their labor demands.

#59 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 08:55 PM | Reply

"I don't think the high suicide rate of veterans has anything to do with waiting to see a doctor."
~Jakester

"I do. If they would see a doctor when they are thinking about killing themselves, there would be an intervention."
~Snoofy

Snoofy's macro observation is absolutely correct. My only suggestion would be exchange "could" for "would".

#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 08:57 PM | Reply

"If they would see a doctor when they are thinking about killing themselves, there would be an intervention."

Is suicide a bad thing?

I can say with a high level of confidence that someday I will chug a bottle of pills.

Once you reach the point where you no longer are able to experience a quality of life that is commensurate with your expectations, why would someone else be able to demand you keep living?

I wouldn't use a gun though. It's pretty thoughtless IMO. Someone would have to come in and clean up the mess.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 08:58 PM | Reply

"Probably not."

So you really only want it if you don't have to pay for it.

Which means you don't really want it.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 08:59 PM | Reply

"They deserve whatever amount the value of their labor demands."

That suggests Bezos' portion of the Amazon pie is equal to his work input.

My theory is Bezos made his fortune by underpaying those who had an outsized hand in Bezos' success.

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:00 PM | Reply

"Somebody understands the equation."

Snoofy gets it while every other country in the western world does not?

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:00 PM | Reply

"So you really only want it if you don't have to pay for it."

I want it paid for with a progressive tax.
There's only one progressive tax in the entire tax code, do you know which one it is?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:01 PM | Reply

"They deserve whatever amount the value of their labor demands."

Why do they deserve that?

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:01 PM | Reply

"Snoofy gets it while every other country in the western world does not?"

Economists get it, even if you don't.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:02 PM | Reply

"My theory is Bezos made his fortune by underpaying those who had an outsized hand in Bezos' success."

Your theory is incorrect.

You can't legally underpay someone.

If the remuneration is below what someone thinks that they are entitled to, they simply find a different job. BY taking a job you agree that the compensation is reasonable for the labor you provide.

Your best bet would be to look at other similar wage rates outside of Amazon...that would allow you to draw a comparable comparison, but even that would ignore the fact that a person working for Amazon took a job accepting lower wages than they would have received working for a different employer.

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:04 PM | Reply

"Is suicide a bad thing?"

You have children.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:04 PM | Reply

"I want it paid for with a progressive tax."

Yeah.

You want it of you don't have to pay for it.

You needn't repeat yourself.

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:05 PM | Reply

"Economists get it, even if you don't."

Economists support the VAT.

It's why you see them everywhere.

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:06 PM | Reply

"You have children."

Yeah.

They're the primary reason I would chug a bottle of pills.

Get the inevitable over with, rather than prolong a circumstance where they get to watch me ---- and piss myself for years.

#72 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:07 PM | Reply

"The only person that can alter the value of one's labor is the person themselves."

Nonsense. An owner can say, "In this equation, this worker provides X% of the success." It's usually reflected in profit-sharing or stock-acquisition programs.

In my case, I purposely overpay my assistant because she contributes more to my business than she realizes.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:10 PM | Reply

Economists support the VAT.
It's why you see them everywhere.
#71 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I guess the American economy must not make a lot of sense to economists then.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:10 PM | Reply

"You can't legally underpay someone."

You could if the government didn't force you to pay a minimum wage at gunpoint.
You'd do away with the minimum wage, so don't go predicating ideological arguments on its continued existence.
See how that works?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-27 09:11 PM | Reply

"BY taking a job you agree that the compensation is reasonable for the labor you provide."

Manure.

By taking the job, sometimes you agree it's the best you can get under the circumstances.

You're pretending the value of everyone's work drops in a town when a large business closes.

#76 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:12 PM | Reply

"You'd do away with the minimum wage, so don't go predicating ideological arguments on its continued existence. See how that works?"

(Unrecognized) Newsworthy Flag

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:13 PM | Reply

"Nonsense. An owner can say, "In this equation, this worker provides X% of the success." It's usually reflected in profit-sharing or stock-acquisition programs."

Like fisherman, right?

Each worker gets a share of the take.

But consider Amazon. It took 4 years from the IPO for Amazon to turn a profit.

Should the workers have been working with no pay for those first four years?

And Tesla...have they even turned a profit?

#78 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 09:16 PM | Reply

"Should the workers have been working with no pay for those first four years?"

I never said the workers should be paid ONLY in stock options. Put those goalposts back where you found them.

#79 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:18 PM | Reply

"And Tesla...have they even turned a profit?"

More to the point: shouldn't there be a multiple of CEO compensation to average employee compensation that makes sense? I get it Oprah will be pissed, but my vote is to go ahead anyway.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 09:20 PM | Reply

There is nothing that Jeff Bezos can do to alter the value of anyone's labor. The only person that can alter the value of one's labor is the person themselves.

#59 | Posted by madbomber

Semantics. He can bribe politicians to gut social services and the safety net so he can have a tax cut. That's enriching himself at the expense of the working class.

The rich have been doing this for decades so now they're the only ones with any wealth to tax.

Don't whine about being targeted for taxation when you've sucked all the wealth out of society. There's no one else with anything left to tax besides the rich.

#81 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 09:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And Tesla...have they even turned a profit?

#78 | Posted by madbomber

Yes. Have you even learned to use google?

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-27 09:26 PM | Reply

"There is nothing that Jeff Bezos can do to alter the value of anyone's labor."

Oh my, you're naive.

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-27 10:06 PM | Reply

"I never said the workers should be paid ONLY in stock options. Put those goalposts back where you found them."

Should the same be true for other factors of production?

For instance, if a company required dry edible beans, should the amount paid to the supplier of dry edible beans go up as profits increased?

#84 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 11:15 PM | Reply

"More to the point: shouldn't there be a multiple of CEO compensation to average employee compensation that makes sense?"

I dunno.

Should there be something like that in professional sports?

Or...the entertainment industry?

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 11:17 PM | Reply

"The rich have been doing this for decades so now they're the only ones with any wealth to tax."

YGBFSM.

Median household income is at a record high...yet no one has any money?

Why don't you be honest and just admit that your argument is driven by petty jealousy.

#86 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 11:20 PM | Reply

just admit that your argument is driven by petty jealousy

Could just be driven by economics and reality.

Look at every nation that actually provides a first-world safety net for their people. What are their tax rates? It's not "jealousy" to tax rich people. It's how you get the money to do things.

But I wouldn't expect a hypocritical government leech to be honest about how taxation works.

#87 | Posted by JOE at 2021-10-27 11:33 PM | Reply

"Look at every nation that actually provides a first-world safety net for their people. What are their tax rates? It's not "jealousy" to tax rich people. It's how you get the money to do things."

Well sir, you are clearly talking out of your ass.

First, unlike the US, most of the European states have a value-added tax (VAT), that ranges from 18%-25% depending on the country.

Second, unlike the US, lower income earners carry a much larger part of the tax burden.

"In 2019 a single parent of two children earning two-thirds of average pay faced total net labour taxes of only 10%, according to analysis by the oecd, a club of mostly rich countries. In egalitarian Sweden the rate was nearly 33%."

www.economist.com

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 11:48 PM | Reply

"But I wouldn't expect a hypocritical government leech to be honest about how taxation works."

OK.

I wouldn't expect a progressive to be honest about taxation. This whole thread is a testament to that dishonesty.

And I can provide links to other testaments to dishonesty as well...although I think you're well entrenched in and fully comfortable with your flavor of dishonesty.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-10-27 11:50 PM | Reply

Median household income is at a record high...yet no one has any money?

Why don't you be honest and just admit that your argument is driven by petty jealousy.

#86 | Posted by madbomber

Yeah because both parents have to work now. Median household income used to be 1 income now it has to be 2 and you still cant afford college for your kids.

Sociopaths think everyone is like them. So I must be JEALOUS that I can't bribe politicians to enrich myself and harm others, right?

#90 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-28 12:42 AM | Reply

#90. I have no power to bribe politicians either.

I make sacrifices. Drive an older car, keep vacations cheap, etc.

I've never expected to be able to have government be able to rob my neighbor and distribute that money because ... ... .

#91 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-28 12:51 AM | Reply

#68 - "Snoofy's macro observation is absolutely correct. "

Um, no it's not. I'm a veteran. Neither of you are. Don't talk about things you know nothing about to someone who does. In fact, weren't you telling me just two days ago I knew nothing about SAG gun protocols because I've not spent even ten minutes on a movie set? Yes, you did. How many minutes have you been a veteran, Danforth? Double standard much? (yes, you do)_

When you call any VA number, the first thing you hear is (paraphrasing) "if you are thinking of harming yourself, please stay on the line and a doctor will be with you."

Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it, Danforth. Goes for snoofy as well.

#92 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 03:49 AM | Reply

Above was replying to post 60, not 68

#93 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 03:51 AM | Reply

#61 - absolutely agree, Madbomber. As the left loves to say, "A person's body is theirs to do with as they please". So if they want to commit suicide, who is snoofy or danforth to tell them they can't? They loves them their double standards.

#94 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 03:54 AM | Reply

#60 - I had to see what other lies snoofy puked out. Here's one:

"Of course, thanks to gun nuts, the doctor wouldn't be allowed to ask if they own a gun,"

The VA shrinks do indeed ask suicidal patients if they own guns. Snoofy blatantly lied. I know this for a fact because I once flippantly made a joke about suicide to my VA endocrinologist.
She freaked and the VA shrinks were all over me like white on rice until I finally convinced them I was joking. It took several months to get them off my back. And yes, they asked me if I owned guns.

Besides, how could he possibly know what VA shrinks ask their patients if he's never been one? Obviously he can't. He just likes to lie, troll, and stir up ----.

I have no idea why snoofy lies so much. I guess it's a trolling thing. Plus he wants to blame "gun nuts" for things he doesn't understand. Pathetic.

#95 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 04:23 AM | Reply

I'm sure snoofy and danforth, both non-veterans, will be quick to tell me how they know more about veteran's affairs than I and other veterans do.

Just watch.

#96 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 04:26 AM | Reply

#72 - again, dead on. I'm ready to do the same thing if necessary. Not only would it spare loved ones the anguish of watching me die, but why trade my assets for a few more months of life when I could leave them to my grandchildren.

#97 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-28 05:47 AM | Reply

" Don't try to describe the ocean if you've never seen it, Danforth."

Don't try to describe a set if you've never been on one, Goatman.

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-28 01:08 PM | Reply

" weren't you telling me just two days ago I knew nothing about SAG gun protocols because I've not spent even ten minutes on a movie set? "

Yes, as a matter of fact I was.

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-28 01:08 PM | Reply

"The VA shrinks do indeed ask suicidal patients if they own guns."

Good. I'm glad I was wrong about that.

The law I was thinking of was only in Florida, and it was overturned by a Federal appeals court. www.nbcnews.com

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-28 01:31 PM | Reply

#61 - absolutely agree, Madbomber. As the left loves to say, "A person's body is theirs to do with as they please". So if they want to commit suicide, who is snoofy or danforth to tell them they can't? They loves them their double standards.

#94 | Posted by jakester

What if suicide were contagious? Like covid? Would you still have the right to kill yourself if it could also make other people die?

#101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-28 01:32 PM | Reply

I've never expected to be able to have government be able to rob my neighbor and distribute that money because ... ... .

#91 | Posted by BellRinger

You think government is "robbing" people by taxing the income they earned WITH THE GOVERNMENT'S HELP.

But you DONT think the rich are robbing the poor when they bribe government to cut social services to give tax cuts for the rich.

Let me clue you in moron - you've been brainwashed to fight for the agenda of those who are making you suffer. You're never going to get into the country club. They laugh at you suckers that they conned in to voting for the billionaires' agenda by scaring you with "immigrants" "taxes" and "critical race theory".

#102 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-10-28 01:35 PM | Reply

First, unlike the US, most of the European states have a value-added tax (VAT), that ranges from 18%-25% depending on the country.
Second, unlike the US, lower income earners carry a much larger part of the tax burden.
#88 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

So, the VAT is regressive then?

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-28 01:42 PM | Reply

As the left loves to say, "A person's body is theirs to do with as they please". So if they want to commit suicide, who is snoofy or danforth to tell them they can't?
#94 | POSTED BY JAKESTER

Who is telling them they can't?
I'm not suggesting telling people they can't commit suicide.
I'm not advocating removing a person's sense of agency.

I'm advocating intervention to prevent suicide. Like the one you experienced when you were "just joking."

#104 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-28 01:46 PM | Reply

"lower income earners carry a much larger part of the tax burden."

Because GRATs, tax-favored investing, stepped-up basis, carried interest, and getting up-front cash via tax cuts today in exchange for 2% bonds redeemable in 25 years, just isn't enough of an advantage for the wealthiest.

#105 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-28 01:48 PM | Reply

"who is snoofy or danforth to tell them they can't?"

Small minds discuss people, Goatman.

And once again, you've misrepresented my position while pretending to speak for me.

#106 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-28 01:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I make sacrifices. Drive an older car, keep vacations cheap, etc.
#91 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Sacrifice
Definition 3
The act of giving up something highly valued for the sake of something else considered to have a greater value or claim.

Is this what you mean? You looked at your financial situation and decided you're better off driving an older car?
I mean, if you decided a new car is more important than your future finances, you could turn it around, say you made sacrifices for the new car...
The way you use the term sacrifice, you aren't giving up value, you're maximizing it.
But for some reason, you still come off as a victim...

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-28 01:56 PM | Reply

Compromise is the essence of politics. It just seems that the Dems are the only ones ever willing to compromise.

#108 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-10-28 02:02 PM | Reply

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