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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, October 25, 2021

Jonathan Chait: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis has been trying to walk the same line with the anti-vaccine movement that he has with Donald Trump.

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I dunno... the one with the most deaths on their hands is likely to be the next GOP Pres Nominee, and bad as he is, he's still way behind Trump.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-25 10:55 PM | Reply

He's not a vaccine skeptic.

He's a POS opportunist who will absolutely tell you whatever is necessary to expand his power and influence. Even if it kills you.

#2 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-25 11:03 PM | Reply

I was reading this saying to myself, what ya wanna bet he's vaccinated. So I looked it up, and sure enough he got the J&J...privately.

www.wtsp.com

#3 | Posted by horstngraben at 2021-10-25 11:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#2 I don't nearly always agree with him. However, he has taken a much bigger picture approach to dealing with COVID than most other governors. Factoring in broad public health issues like - financial livelihood (yes, that is a public health issue); the psychological toll that mandates social distancing, masking and lockdowns cause; children's educational, emotional and interactive development; the slippery slope of authoritarianism that we are already seeing play out; etc.

Those things all matter greatly, yet way too many people fixate solely on a single metric - the number of COVID cases and number of COVID deaths. These are also important tradeoffs that warrant serious discussion especially when comparing outcomes against other states if we are going to try and take a big picture look at how best to deal with this virus.

#4 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-25 11:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"However, (DeSantis) has taken a much bigger picture approach to dealing with COVID than most other governors."

Like lying about the numbers.

Remember when FL had a record spike in "flu deaths" during a season almost devoid of flu?

#5 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-25 11:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

He's grooming himself for 2024. The trumpers will eat up his "standing up to the man".

#6 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-25 11:38 PM | Reply

"Pro-vaccine Republicans"

LMFAO, like there's pro-vaccine Republicans!

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-25 11:40 PM | Reply

"the slippery slope of authoritarianism that we are already seeing play out; etc"

Where are we seeing this?

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-25 11:47 PM | Reply

#8 Is that a serious question?

#9 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-25 11:55 PM | Reply

The most glaring example is not in this country - it's Australia, which is another Western Democracy.

Examples abound here as well though.

#10 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-25 11:56 PM | Reply

#4 | Posted by BellRinger

Nonsense.

If that was true he'd integrate mitigation measures like masking and vaccination into his policies.

He's a partisan --------. Nothing more, nothing less.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:06 AM | Reply

#11 Are you arguing that the only public health measurement that matters is COVID?

It sure looks that way.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:07 AM | Reply

Not at all.

But vaccines and masks could help all that you listed.

So why fight them?

Because your reasoning is crap, that's why.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:09 AM | Reply

f that was true he'd integrate mitigation measures like masking and vaccination into his policies.

"21. Florida
Number of people fully vaccinated: 12,747,667
Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 59.35"

Source:

www.beckershospitalreview.com

So, Florida is slightly above the median as it pertains to a percentage of its population fully vaccinated on a state-by-state comparison.

That's nothing to celebrate but at the same time it's kind of difficult to accuse him of not integrating vaccination into his policies. Hell, Florida was ahead of the curve in getting its most vulnerable, seniors, vaccinated quickly. He was accused of favoring Republicans because a higher percentage of seniors in Florida vote GOP than Dem. Also, when trying to get access to the vaccines as quickly as possible Florida tapped Publix and the media, and of course lefties, railed him for that too as his campaign received a donation from Publix. It was all nonsense of course and even some prominent Democrats in Florida called it out as BS.

Your response was lazy and partisan. Do better.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:16 AM | Reply

#13 You are conflating mandates with mask usage and vaccinations. They are NOT the same thing. From a psychological standpoint people are more likely to want to get the vaccine if they are not being forced to get it.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:18 AM | Reply

Your response was lazy and partisan. Do better.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger

Says the guy with the lazy, partisan response.

"Slightly above median" doesn't in any way suggest he's pushed for vaccination or masking.

Especially in light of the fact that he's banned masking and vaccination mandates.

I mean, god damn dude, he's fought masking and vaccination every step of the way...but he hasn't in your world?

GTFOOH.

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:22 AM | Reply

From a psychological standpoint people are more likely to want to get the vaccine if they are not being forced to get it.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger

--------. You're reading too much confirmation bias crap.

The people who haven't gotten vaccinated by now don't give a ---- about who is or who isn't telling them to.

If you're any of the suspected sausage partiers it's not surprise your views are woefully misguided and intentionally but transparently "middle of the road."

#17 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:24 AM | Reply

If DeathSentence was genuinely interested in balancing freedumz and COVID mitigation he wouldn't have banned local bodies from implementing their own policies as they saw fit.

Nor would he be so vocal on the national scene in catering to anti-vaxx groups.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:27 AM | Reply

"Slightly above median" doesn't in any way suggest he's pushed for vaccination or masking.

I provided examples where he pushed for vaccination as a matter of policy.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:27 AM | Reply

The people who haven't gotten vaccinated by now don't give a ---- about who is or who isn't telling them to.

You know this, how? Are you a mind-reader?

f DeathSentence was genuinely interested in balancing freedumz and COVID mitigation he wouldn't have banned local bodies from implementing their own policies as they saw fit.

That's a fair point and it's one I agree with. I draw the line with vaccine passports though. Nevertheless, drop the hyperbolic -------- and you would be more persuasive. "Freedumz" as if our civil liberties don't matter? Seriously, get out of here with that crap.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:30 AM | Reply

" He was accused of favoring Republicans because ... "

... Because a Republican enclave in the Keys ALL got vaccinated as if they were first in line.
www.google.com

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:30 AM | Reply

" Freedumz" as if our civil liberties don't matter?"

Do your civil liberties include the right for you to asymptotically infect as many others with Covid as possible?

#22 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:33 AM | Reply

provided examples where he pushed for vaccination as a matter of policy.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger

None of those are what you say.

BTW he wasn't accused of getting vaccines to republicans quicker, but to high $$ donors.

If you can't relate reality properly don't bother trying. Just focus on pushing that breath out of the mouth...in the mouth...out the mouth...in the mouth...

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:34 AM | Reply

#21 All SENIORS were put in the front of the line because they were in the highest risk category.

Many other states had similar policy - when demand exceeded supply the most vulnerable (mostly seniors) were at the front of the line and then access was expanded downward by age from there. Somehow, only in Florida is that controversial when some other states handled dispersement almost identically.

The amount of blatantly dishonest and hypocritical attacks on Desantis coming from the left is remarkable. The problem is these attacks are taking an average to above-average politician and are turning him into an icon. It's politically stupid.

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:37 AM | Reply

"Freedumz" as if our civil liberties don't matter? Seriously, get out of here with that crap.

Selfish stupidity isn't freedom.

The Founding Fathers recognized that and acted accordingly.

The notion of freedom you idiots are pushing (termed freedumz) is little more than selfish, reckless, irresponsible, entitled --------.

#25 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:39 AM | Reply

" I provided examples where he pushed for vaccination as a matter of policy."

Forbidding locales to assess their own safety needs negates any vax points.

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:40 AM | Reply

#22 That's a fair question but it misses the point. Are you familiar with the famous Ben Franklin quote that is along the lines of - those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. ?

Anyone who dismisses concerns about eroding civil liberties as "Freedumz" comes off as authoritarian.

#27 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:41 AM | Reply

BTW he wasn't accused of getting vaccines to republicans quicker, but to high $$ donors.

Yet, those accusations went nowhere.

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:42 AM | Reply

The amount of blatantly dishonest and hypocritical attacks on Desantis coming from the left is remarkable.

No, it's all in your empty head.

DeathSentence didn't simply push vulnerable seniors to the front of the line.

He sold vaccine access to his wealthy donors first.

Why are you such a dick sucking sycophant? It amazes me that most small gubmint "c-c-conservatives" are the most ardent dick sucking sycophants in politics. It's almost as if you think sucking one dick constantly makes you purer than those of us who don't suck any dicks at all and are genuinely skeptical of politics and politicians.

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#25 I love how you present your opinions as fact.

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:43 AM | Reply

#29 Are you angry, bro?

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:44 AM | Reply

" All SENIORS were put in the front of the line because they were in the highest risk category."

Read the article. That enclave didn't get it because they were seniors.

#32 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:44 AM | Reply

He sold vaccine access to his wealthy donors first.

I'm sure you can substantiate that claim. I remember when that story broke and it went nowhere because it wilted under scrutiny.

are genuinely skeptical of politics and politicians.

I guarantee I am more skeptical of politicians and politics than you are.

#33 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:46 AM | Reply

"I love how you present your opinions as fact."

No, actually he was stating facts.

For example, you still can't answer whether your civil liberties give you the right to infect others with a potentially fatal disease.

#34 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:47 AM | Reply

That enclave is a few miles from me... and the Goofy Gov publicly put his, very specifically, donors and supporters at the front of the vaccine line.

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2021-10-26 12:47 AM | Reply

What's up with your attitude, JPW?

I've been very polite and am treated with mostly vitriolic responses. Don't worry, I am a big boy and can easily take it. I just don't understand why you are so nasty.

#36 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:49 AM | Reply

That's a fair question but it misses the point. Are you familiar with the famous Ben Franklin quote that is along the lines of - those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. ?

LOL ---------- wants an often misquoted quote from one Founding Father to outweigh the actions of multiple Founding Fathers, including the one he's quoting, to support his argument that entitled selfishness is freedumz.

Given the fact he thinks the notion of infecting others with a potentially deadly infectious disease is a "fair question" I'm gonna go with the assumption he's not worth taking seriously on this topic.

Anyone who dismisses concerns about eroding civil liberties as "Freedumz" comes off as authoritarian.

#27 | Posted by BellRinger

There's nothing being eroded you dumb ----. You idiots whine about this ALWAYS.

Why? Because your selfish, usually fat ---- white douche bag ass with the typical white fat ---- goatee and "I have a----------" cars/trucks who think anyone prohibiting your fat, goateed douche bag fat ass from doing what ever you think is necessary to make you feel like you're not a white, fat ---- douche bag goateed ass is impeding on your freedumz.

Get it yet? See the constant thread that weaves its way through this topic?

#37 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:49 AM | Reply

For example, you still can't answer whether your civil liberties give you the right to infect others with a potentially fatal disease.

#34 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-26 12:47 AM

To what extent should anyone's civil rights be crushed from them potentially catching a disease that might be fatal? Where do we draw the line? Again, I appreciate your question because it's a good question. It's a question that I honestly struggle to answer.

#38 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:51 AM | Reply

#33
Read the link I provided; the facts are quite clear.

Every post since, proves you didn't bother.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:53 AM | Reply

#37 Get what yet? If you had a point it was buried in an endless tirade of immature, sophomoric insults.

#40 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:53 AM | Reply

#39 I didn't see a link. I'll scroll up...

#41 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:54 AM | Reply

#36 - civility is a rare thing on this site. Immature name calling is the retort of choice with way too many here.

I don't get it, either.

#42 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-26 12:55 AM | Reply

" To what extent should anyone's civil rights be crushed from them potentially catching a disease that might be fatal? "

No, I'm talking about YOUR civil rights. Do they extend to you passing on a potentially fatal disease to as many people as possible?

You either know the definition of asymptomatic contagion, or you don't.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 12:56 AM | Reply

#39 Actually, I did see the link. At the time it looked like it was just a link to the search results for whatever Desantis search you put in so I dismissed it. I just clicked the link and see that it was Miami Herald (local media which scores a point for you). Alas, it is behind a paywall.

#44 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:56 AM | Reply

What's up with your attitude, JPW?

I've been very polite and am treated with mostly vitriolic responses. Don't worry, I am a big boy and can easily take it. I just don't understand why you are so nasty.

Because I see a trend as described in post 37.

There is a segment of our society who think that freedom means "I do whatever I want and you respect that."

Sorry, but that's not what freedom ever was nor will ever be.

This very topic proves that beyond a doubt. When you look at how our Founding Fathers dealt with the issue of infectious diseases it blows the idiot's notion of freedumz out of the water.

Do I have a ---- attitude from your perspective? Absolutely. I don't deny that one bit.

But that's because I'm tired of listening to you -------- after a year and a half. I'm tired of listening to it at the beginning when it was predictable what would happen. I'm tired of listening to it in the middle when it was clear the predictions were coming true. And I'm tired of listening to it now when you still cause death and destruction while claiming it's Biden's fault.

So yea, I have a ---- attitude towards you.

Because you earned it.

Now stop whining.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 12:58 AM | Reply

You either know the definition of asymptomatic contagion, or you don't.

#43 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-10-26 12:56 AM

I know full well what it is. It's one of the reasons this particular virus is so nasty - a high percentage of people who are carrying the virus don't even know it.

You are asking a very pointed question and I respect that. Give me a minute and I will answer your question to the best of my ability.

#46 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 12:59 AM | Reply

It's a question that I honestly struggle to answer.

#38 | Posted by BellRinger

Because you're a self absorbed --------.

For those of us who aren't that question was easily answered long ago.

*ppsssttttt* in case you can't tell who "those of us who aren't" are, we wore masks and continue to wear masks because it's nothing to do so.

We got vaccinated as soon as possible and push others to do so because it's extremely low risk to do so.

It's not a difficult question to answer. Not by a long shot.

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:00 AM | Reply

#45 You have a ---- attitude toward your bigoted caricature of me. You don't know me and you sure as heck haven't made any effort to try and understand where I actually am on this. But, whatever. Keep letting loose with your insults. I will ignore them until after I've answered Danforth's question, which is a very good question.

#48 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:02 AM | Reply

#47 Pssst - I wore masks and did so as recently as Friday for a couple of hours straight. Psst - I got vaccinated when it was my turn in line.

#49 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:04 AM | Reply

I guarantee I am more skeptical of politicians and politics than you are.

#33 | Posted by BellRinger

No, you're not.

You and your ilk convince yourself of this but this is only a positive spin on a negative thing.

Because what actually happens is you trust less politicians, for sure, but when you trust them you're all in. Like dick sucking, sycophantic, cultist 'I will drink this kool aid right now if you tell me to' all in for them.

Which makes you far far FAR more dangerous than your average person.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:05 AM | Reply

#37 Get what yet? If you had a point it was buried in an endless tirade of immature, sophomoric insults.

#40 | Posted by BellRinger

That the vast majority of those whining about their freedumz are fat ----, entitled, bitter nobodies who think they're owed more than they've earned.

Look at a picture of a random crowd at a Trump rally. who are they?

Dead eyed, fat----------- who thinks the world owes them.

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:08 AM | Reply

I don't get it, either.

#42 | Posted by jakester

Sure thing, goatshart.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:08 AM | Reply

#45 You have a ---- attitude toward your bigoted caricature of me. You don't know me and you sure as heck haven't made any effort to try and understand where I actually am on this. But, whatever. Keep letting loose with your insults. I will ignore them until after I've answered Danforth's question, which is a very good question.

#48 | Posted by BellRinger

LOL you're not special. I don't need to know you to know you fall into a few discrete groups on this topic.

The fact that you have to think about and call Danforth's question a "good question" tells me everything I need to know about you.

If after a year and half and 750K+ dead you still have to think about it and look into it?

Pfffttt you're not going to put forth anything worth reading, that's for damn sure.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:12 AM | Reply

Here's most of the Miami Herald article I linked above.

"Over the course of the last two weeks, the Medical Center has vaccinated over 1,200 homeowners who qualify under the State of Florida's Governor's current Order for those individuals who are 65 years of age or older,'' the message reads.
"We are fortunate to have received enough vaccines to ensure both the first and second for those vaccinated. At this time, however, the majority of the State has not received an allocation of first doses of vaccines for this week and beyond, and the timing of any subsequent deliveries remains unclear."
Neither Ocean Reef's media relations representative nor officials from its medical center immediately returned phone and emailed messages to answer questions about how it received so many vaccines before much of the rest of the state.Ocean Reef Club is an ultra-exclusive neighborhood that is arguably one of the highest-security private communities in the nation. According to Sotheby's International Realty, it has more than 2,100 members who live there either full or part time. It is also where the very wealthy and where dignitaries, including President Joseph Biden, come to stay when they visit the Florida Keys. It's also home to many wealthy donors to the Florida Republican Party and GOP candidates, including Gov. Ron DeSantis. In fact, the only people from Key Largo who gave to DeSantis' political committee live in Ocean Reef. All 17 of them had given the governor contributions of $5,000 each through December 2020, according to the Florida Division of Elections.
But on Feb. 25, one resident of Ocean Reef, Bruce Rauner, the former Republican governor of Illinois and former chairman of the Chicago-based private equity firm GTCR, increased his contribution and wrote a $250,000 check. Since DeSantis started using the state's vaccine initiative to steer special pop-up vaccinations to select communities, his political committee has raised $2.7 million in the month of February alone, more than any other month since he first ran for governor in 2018, records show.
A spokesperson for the governor did not immediately respond to email and telephone messages, but, after the story was published, DeSantis spokesperson Meredith Beatrice said that the governor was not involved in selecting the Ocean Reef Club for the early vaccine distribution. She did not explain how the club obtained so many doses ahead of others.
"This was not a state supported senior community POD [point of distribution], nor was it requested by the governor,'' Beatrice said in an email.
Last month, a high-end community that Republican fundraiser Pat Neal helped develop was chosen by DeSantis to host a pop-up vaccination clinic near Bradenton. Only people from two ZIP codes were eligible to receive the vaccine at the Lakewood Ranch site, and names were chosen by Manatee County Commissioner Vanessa Baugh, who included herself on her vaccine selection list.
DeSantis chose two other Neal developments for pop-up sites in Charlotte and Sarasota counties. Campaign finance data shows that Neal, a former state senator, donated $125,000 to DeSantis' political committee in 2018 and 2019. The effort has brought scrutiny from DeSantis' critics as the state's vaccine distribution appears to be inequitable. By the end of February, only 5.6% of those who've been vaccinated in the state are Black, even though Blacks account for 17% of the state's population. DeSantis has denied that he is selecting locations for the senior clinics based on politics.

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 01:13 AM | Reply

#47 Pssst - I wore masks and did so as recently as Friday for a couple of hours straight. Psst - I got vaccinated when it was my turn in line.

#49 | Posted by BellRinger

Then how is Danforth's question such a mystery?

Be honest. The "mystery" of it is you have conflicting feelings and need to come up with a slick answer.

Because for anyone with a well developed sense of empathy, compassion or caring for others it's a no brainer.

Because if it weren't for self absorbed -------- who don't get it mandates wouldn't even be necessary.

#55 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:15 AM | Reply

And this part bears repeating:
But on Feb. 25, one resident of Ocean Reef, Bruce Rauner, the former Republican governor of Illinois and former chairman of the Chicago-based private equity firm GTCR, increased his contribution and wrote a $250,000 check. Since DeSantis started using the state's vaccine initiative to steer special pop-up vaccinations to select communities, his political committee has raised $2.7 million in the month of February alone, more than any other month since he first ran for governor in 2018, records show.

Still not sure?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 01:15 AM | Reply

Danforth,

If you click my profile you will see that I identify as Libertarian, although it's small "L" as some planks of that party's platform are deal-breakers for me.

I take the issue of civil liberties very seriously. As a result, a lot of issues color my view on mask and vaccine mandates. Without going into an excessive amount of detail I'll provide some recent examples to give you an idea of the backdrop from which I am operating.

Let's start with the Patriot Act. Parts of it were unconstitutional. At the time I supported it because I felt it was necessary for the safety of our country. That changed when certain politicians - mostly Republicans - and certainly some RW pundits wanted to make it permanent - eliminate the sunset clause which would force Congress to re-authorize it. That was a bridge WAY too far for me. Then, within that context, the no-fly lists. Those were terrible. People were being denied air travel for all sorts of reasons that had nothing to do with anything in their background. I can cite countless other examples based on the Patriot Act alone but need to move this forward.

To their credit, liberals and progressives mostly fought against that authoritarianism. More recently? We have cancel culture. We have serious attempts to erode 1st Amendment protections of freedom of speech by labeling things as "hate speech" and "misinformation". And while our government hasn't been successful at creating law prohibiting unpopular speech it has created a partnership of sorts with Big Tech monopolies that have done the bidding of Dems and the Left through the auspice of a supposed free market. One of countless examples - the biggest anti-trust violation in my lifetime of the coordinated takedown of Parler and the coordinated banning of a former president from these monopolistic social media giants - the most powerful companies this world has ever seen.

From my POV we must be ever vigilant against authoritarian mission-creep especially when things like a "public health crisis" or a "climate crisis" are used as justification for us to jettison our precious civil liberties for the "greater good." The proverbial slippery-slope always concerns me greatly.

Hopefully, you have a basic understanding of the framework for my opposition to mandates. What I just shared is but a mere fraction of what makes up my opposition to mandates but I think it's important for you to have at least a baseline understanding of where I am coming from before answering your question, which is coming in my next post....

#57 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:30 AM | Reply

Still not sure?

Nah ItS AlL jUSt CiNCidEnCE cUX FreDumZ

#58 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:33 AM | Reply

The proverbial slippery-slope always concerns me greatly.

Because you're a weak minded fool who can't think for themselves.

So you slurp up this kind of ---- from less the scrupulous "media" who keep feeding you "red flags" about your loss of freedumz.

Basically you're a prepper, just without all the freeze dried food.

#59 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 01:35 AM | Reply

A whole lot of losing going on in this topic.

#60 | Posted by jakester at 2021-10-26 01:46 AM | Reply

" and the coordinated banning of a former president"

The formerly most powerful human on the planet was (and is) telling enormous, dangerous lies, knowingly, as part of a scam to stay in power, and get money from his followers.

I wouldn't want to be a conduit either.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 01:51 AM | Reply

Danforth,

This is the question you keep asking:

No, I'm talking about YOUR civil rights. Do they extend to you passing on a potentially fatal disease to as many people as possible?

I need to clarify things a bit. A vaccinated person has approximately 95% protection and for those who do have breakthrough cases the symptoms are less severe and the death rates are significantly lower.

So, it seems to me that those who aren't vaccinated are really only a significant risk to others who aren't vaccinated.

Further, from what I've read people who have already had COVID have stronger immunity via antibodies than those who haven't had it but are vaccinated.

These factor into my answer to your question.

Civil liberties are not limitless. Any time one's actions can have an adverse effect on another (drunk driving) it's absolutely within the purview of public health and safety for government to step in and take action against such actions.

Back in the '80's people who had were aware they had AIDS and had sex with another without disclosing it were successfully prosecuted for their actions, and rightly so. Now, that is not apples/apples with the COVID vax - I just want you to recognize that I do understand that civil liberties do have legitimate limitations.

In a vaccuum I absolutely see the broader public health benefit of an apolitical vaccine mandate (I am NOT sold on mask mandates, but that is a separate discussion) that allows for reasonable exemptions. We don't live in a vacuum. I cannot ignore everything else and simply treat a vax mandate as a stand-alone issue. Whatever happened to health privacy? Again, far from apples/apples, Roe was predicated on a doctor/patient privacy privilege - that is between the woman and her doctor. The concept of vax passports totally turns that upside down.

Ultimately for me the question boils down to - where do we draw the line? At what point is enough too much? At what point does this thing just become part of our lives and we decide for ourselves our level of risk tolerance?

#62 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:52 AM | Reply

#54 Thank you for printing that. It's what I recall at the time.

What I also recall is that story ended up going nowhere. Please, I am not naive and I know the I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine, nature of politics. I just don't remember it growing any legs.

#63 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:56 AM | Reply

#59

Pssst - grow up.

#64 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 01:58 AM | Reply

"I just don't remember it growing any legs."

Probably because it doesn't seem to matter to folks like you, even now.

Nice werk!

#65 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 02:01 AM | Reply

"It's what I recall at the time."

You recalled he set fundraising records when he designated pop up clinics? And this enclave got both shots while there were struggles statewide to get the first ?

Recalled, but not recoiled?

#66 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 02:04 AM | Reply

Probably because it doesn't seem to matter to folks like you, even now.

It matters. All too often I see people turn a blind eye to political corruption based solely on the letter (D) (R) after their name.

By the same token, I'm a bit colored as I've seen countless hit pieces on this particular governor that were very quickly proven to be absolute garbage by a news media that is a dumpster fire in terms of trust and credibility with the public.

I look at the compare/contrast with how the media has covered Desantis with how it covered Cuomo (who was FAR worse on just about every possible front with his handling of COVID from a corruption standpoint) and, yeah, I am skeptical of Desantis because he holds a position of power and I'm also skeptical of our news media which I feel has become downright corrupt in their own right.

#67 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 02:14 AM | Reply

With Desantis so much dung has been slung against the wall by our news media in the hopes that something will stick....I need more than innuendo and cherry-picked contextless 'facts' before I'm going to recoil.

It's not unlike the Clinton machine. Absolutely corrupt. However, their political opponents hurled so much garbage that....Vince Foster, Pizza restaurant basements, etc.

#68 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 02:19 AM | Reply

Got a sneaking feeling he's going to be found to be involved somehow in the Gaetz human trafficking sex scandal.

#69 | Posted by a_monson at 2021-10-26 02:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" However, their political opponents hurled so much garbage that....Vince Foster, Pizza restaurant basements, etc."

You forgot the most moronic of all: That the Clinton Foundation was corrupt because donations dropped after she lost the election.

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 02:49 AM | Reply

#70 Donations dropped off precipitously. That correlation certainly had the optics of pay-to-play. Nevertheless, it didn't prove corruption. The Clinton Foundation did do some noteworthy charity work, although it paled compared with the Stormy Daniels Relief Fund instituted by the far more altruistic Trump charity.

#71 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-10-26 02:57 AM | Reply

"That correlation certainly had the optics of pay-to-play"

Only to the ignorant: Foundation documents must be transparent.

For further proof, look no further than the Republicans: after looking at the CF under a microscope, they decided the best way to attack HRC was for her military failures regarding Benghazi.

Benghazi ... where she wasn't even in the military chain of command.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-10-26 03:20 AM | Reply

"A vaccinated person has approximately 95% protection and for those who do have breakthrough cases the symptoms are less severe and the death rates are significantly lower."

Colin Powell?
Acceptable losses!

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:11 AM | Reply

"Absolutely corrupt. However, their political opponents hurled so much garbage that....Vince Foster, Pizza restaurant basements, etc."

You can only name the garbage? Where is the actual corruption?

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:13 AM | Reply

"Further, from what I've read people who have already had COVID have stronger immunity via antibodies than those who haven't had it but are vaccinated."

Right.
Colin Powell will never get COVID again!

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:14 AM | Reply

"More recently? We have cancel culture."

RINOs, you mean.

John McCain a War Hero? Ridiculous. I like the ones who don't get captured.

As for that other guy,

"Wonderful to see Colin Powell, who made big mistakes on Iraq and famously, so-called weapons of mass destruction, be treated in death so beautifully by the Fake News Media. Hope that happens to me someday. He was a classic RINO, if even that, always being the first to attack other Republicans. He made plenty of mistakes, but anyway, may he rest in peace!"

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:17 AM | Reply

"If you click my profile you will see that I identify as Libertarian, although it's small "L" as some planks of that party's platform are deal-breakers for me."

But if someone identifies as a woman, and you don't think they're a woman, do you accept them when they tell you they're a woman?
So why should anyone believe you're a Libertarian?
???

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:19 AM | Reply

Are you familiar with the famous Ben Franklin quote that is along the lines of - those who are willing to sacrifice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. ?
#27 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

What essential liberty is being sacrificed?
When you got vaccinated, and when you wore the mask, what essential liberty did you sacrifice?
You tell us.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 09:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pssst - grow up.

#64 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Says the guy buying into "muh freedumz are being taken away" nonsense.

#79 | Posted by jpw at 2021-10-26 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What essential liberty is being sacrificed?
When you got vaccinated, and when you wore the mask, what essential liberty did you sacrifice?
You tell us.
#78 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

^
MadBomber couldn't answer this.
Neither can BellRinger.
Neither can Skeptical.

Why are Deplorable guys always such intellectual lightweights?

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-10-26 06:56 PM | Reply

#80 The freedom I am sacrificing due to mandates is freedom from moronic selfish dirtbags when they don't die of covid.

#81 | Posted by bored at 2021-10-27 02:51 AM | Reply

JPW thinks he has the moral high ground so he can act with impunity... But he's just coming off looking like a dick.

#82 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2021-10-27 11:55 AM | Reply

Republicans have lost their moral compass.

When did it become patriotic to be such selfish bastages?

My freedom my freedom!

F you and your imagined freedoms. You've lost nothing except your minds and your moral compass.

We are in a global pandemic. Do your part.

Or when the shooting starts make sure you have your Maga hat on and wave that traitorous Trumpy flag high.

Semper Fi

#83 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-10-27 01:23 PM | Reply

Immature name calling

Calling someone immature is name calling.

There's something wrong with you.

#84 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2021-10-27 01:30 PM | Reply

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