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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, November 06, 2021

Jim Sells is 71, a self-described "strong conservative" who's on social media all the time. As the pandemic unfolded in the United States, his online social network was the source of a lot of his ideas about Covid-19 and what the risks of the virus could be. It was there where he read about a high survival rate among people who'd had Covid-19, and where he saw people questioning whether masks were effective. Sells said he and his friends didn't think addressing the pandemic was particularly urgent. And based on posts he saw on social media, Sells decided he didn't need to be vaccinated against Covid-19. "That attitude is what left me totally unprepared for Covid," he said.

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Based on what Sells had seen online, he didn't expect Covid-19 would leave him hospitalized and hardly able to breathe. "Social media is full of this information to address your agenda. The algorithm sends just what you want to hear right to you," he said. "And I was filled with this information."

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'Based on what Sells had seen online, he didn't expect Covid-19 would leave him hospitalized and hardly able to breathe."

Right-wingers are plumb stupid.

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

I've had COVID Delta for sure and I'm pretty sure that in 4/20 I had the original virus. The first time I had it I was tested for both types of Influenza and had neither, but there was no available COVID test in my area at the time. The wife too was sick at the same time and had neither of the types of flu. The Delta version stole my energy for almost 2 weeks but never threatened me in any other way. Anyone asking me to take a vaccine at this point should save their breath. I'm not saying it's not harder on older people or people who have compromised immune systems but I'm good with it.

I also watched doctors prescribe Ivermectin to older people I know who had the virus and they all came out well. Some in their early 80's.

#2 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 06:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"but there was no available COVID test in my area at the time."

Thanks, Trump!

So, you had COVID 18 months ago, and then again recently, and your previous infection gave you no immunity.

Is that right?

And you don't want a vaccine -- even though having COVID once didn't protect you from getting it again?

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So, you had COVID 18 months ago, and then again recently, and your previous infection gave you no immunity.
Is that right?
And you don't want a vaccine -- even though having COVID once didn't protect you from getting it again?
#3 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-11-06 07:02 PM | REPLY

The vaccines don't give immunity either that's why some countries are on their 3rd or 4th dose.

I view it like the Flu. Sometimes I get it - sometimes I don't and it never made sense because i used to get the shot religiously. I quit in 2007 because fo several reasons including the fact that healthcare professionals don't keep stats on how effective the shot is.

#4 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I view it like the Flu."

How?
The flu doesn't kill 500,000 Americans a year.

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:09 PM | Reply

"Sometimes I get it - sometimes I don't and it never made sense because i used to get the shot religiously."

The flu has many variants, and they can't always predict which one will be prevalent come flu season.
If that still doesn't make sense to you, and you want to learn, then ask me or JPW and we can explain it to you.
But I'm guessing you're happier in your ignorance.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:11 PM | Reply

How?
The flu doesn't kill 500,000 Americans a year.

#5 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-11-06 07:09 PM

Look, I'm not trying to make healthcare decisions for anyone else. My decisions are mine and I will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. I don't want to stand in anyones way of either decision they make. BTW I have no Idea what I had the first time in 4/2020 - it just wasn't the flu.

#7 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:13 PM | Reply

"ask me or JPW and we can explain it to you"

Thank you but I have a doctor who did explain it to me.

#8 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:16 PM | Reply

"The flu has many variants, and they can't always predict which one will be prevalent come flu season"

Totally understand that. My point was that stats aren't kept and industry data isn't published for the general public to the the effectivity rate.

#9 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:19 PM | Reply

Bro, do you even Google?

Table. Adjusted vaccine effectiveness estimates for influenza seasons from 2004-2021
www.cdc.gov

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:25 PM | Reply

Table. Adjusted vaccine effectiveness estimates for influenza seasons from 2004-2021
www.cdc.gov
#10 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-11-06 07:25 PM |

There's no way it can be accurate. Stats are not taken by all healthcare providers. Personally, I have never been asked if I got the vaccination when diagnosed With the Flu. and that's 52 years of life. I've had numerous GPs and not one time has any of them asked the million-dollar question. Let me guess, it's just a coincidence that's confined to my experience? BTW, we've had this conversation before, right here on this site.

Other that Flu or Corona, I'm fully vaccinated just so you know.

#11 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"There's no way it can be accurate. Stats are not taken by all healthcare providers."

That's not a valid criticism. The stats can never be that complete, because we don't have single payer system. But just like polling, you can get within +/- 3% just by sampling 1,000 people.

"Personally, I have never been asked if I got the vaccination when diagnosed With the Flu"

Was your flu shot covered by insurance? Was the person making the diagnosis also covered by the same insurance? Then they don't have to ask, because they already know. Understand?

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

" I've had numerous GPs and not one time has any of them asked the million-dollar question."

Your GP doesn't care. It doesn't change the treatment for flu if you've been vaccinated or not.

Doctors aren't epidemiologists. Doctors are where the rubber meets the road. Epidemiologists drive the car.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But just like polling, you can get within +/- 3% just by sampling 1,000 people."

Is that a poll conducted by an affiliate of the vaccine manufacturer? I don't trust big pharma they're in this to make bank.

ethics.harvard.edu

ethics.harvard.edu

#14 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:41 PM | Reply

#14 Dude. Do you know nothing about medicine except what Facebook tells you? The flu shot is neither a "risky drug" nor a "new drug."

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:43 PM | Reply

"I don't trust big pharma they're in this to make bank."

Weak. Capitalism exists to make bank. That's not big pharma's fault.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 07:47 PM | Reply

I don't have a facebook account. I don't get my facts from any social media. And I don't trust big pharma because it's driven by profits rather than effectivity. They buy their way in with drugs. But I do appreciate your genuine concern for my health.

#17 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-06 07:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And I don't trust big pharma because it's driven by profits rather than effectivity."

You don't think the Invisible Hand rewards effectivity with profit, then?

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 08:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Actually the better question is:
Who do you trust?

I'm going with Big Pharma, assuming you're still getting those flu shots. ;)

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-06 08:20 PM | Reply

Ivermectin is still big Pharma,so why is it ok?

#20 | Posted by Scotty at 2021-11-06 08:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

My younger sister didn't take COVID seriously. Wouldn't mask, wouldn't get vaxxed, went out all the time, told me it's "like the flu, anyway." Otherwise healthy, she died on a ventilator from COVID several weeks ago.

BTW, immunity from COVID doesn't last a lifetime. And as LFTHNDTHRDS' comment illustrates, having COVID doesn't keep you from getting it again.

Wonder why we have flu vaccinations every year? Because it continues to mutate, and last year's vaccination doesn't protect you this year.

#21 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2021-11-07 01:45 AM | Reply

Thank you but I have a doctor who did explain it to me.

#8 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Not very well...

There are absolutely stats on efficacy of influenza vaccines from year to year. They're used constantly as a reason to not get it by other anti-vaxxers.

And Ivermectin doesn't work. Period. Sorry, but your anecdote is meaningless and says more about the quality of doctors in your area than anything else.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 08:30 AM | Reply

So much misinfo and mislead opinions on this thread. But it jives with what I see in real life with people suddenly becoming experts in infectious diseases and immunology over the last year and a half.

I now understand how climatologists feel.

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 08:34 AM | Reply

Ivermectin is still big Pharma,so why is it ok?
#20 | POSTED BY SCOTTY

Great question.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 08:36 AM | Reply

Ivermectin is still big Pharma,so why is it ok?

#20 | POSTED BY SCOTTY AT 2021-11-06 08:30 PM | REPLY

The dumbassery is strong on this one.

You do realize how old Ivermectin is, right?

#25 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-07 11:10 AM | Reply

"You do realize how old Ivermectin is, right?"

So when did Big Pharma become untrustworthy?
Because research on mRNA vaccines is as old as ivermectin.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 11:27 AM | Reply

"So much misinfo and mislead opinions on this thread. But it jives with what I see in real life with people suddenly becoming experts in infectious diseases and immunology over the last year and a half."

Does it really concern you all that much that stupid people are killing themselves off?

It's like drug addicts. Play stupid games, win stupid prises.

There is plenty of detailed information out there from numerous sources. RKI, CDC, whatever. If you want to get your medical advise from a political commentator, you kinda get what's coming to you.

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 12:40 PM | Reply

"So when did Big Pharma become untrustworthy?"

For conservatives?

About a year ago. Give or take.

About the same time it became trustworthy to progressives.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 12:41 PM | Reply

#28 Progressives attack big pharma for raking in obscene profits off the illness of regular folks, which remains the case. That isn't comparable to the anti-science antivax idiocy seen on the right today.

I cant read this site for 5 seconds without seeing some asinine false equivalence from a rightwinger. So embarrassing.

#29 | Posted by JOE at 2021-11-07 12:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Progressives attack big pharma for raking in obscene profits off the illness of regular folks, which remains the case."

Really?

Yet Progressives demand that many Americans who don't really need a vaccine get one.

So, we can say it was about a year ago that progrossives bowed up in favor of Big Pharma?

I like Big Pharma. Always have. Still do.

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 12:57 PM | Reply

"So when did Big Pharma become untrustworthy?"

About the time I realized prescription meds was the 3rd to 4th leading cause of death in the West.

Next question...

#31 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-07 01:01 PM | Reply

Here's a nice article about vaccines and their jaded past.

CNN is about as mainstream as I could find for you. Do you trust CNN?

www.cnn.com

#32 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-07 01:05 PM | Reply

Yet Progressives demand that many Americans who don't really need a vaccine get one.

Not at all relevant to the progressive goal of lower drug prices, single-payer healthcare, medicare negotiation, etc. I suspect you're smart enough to know this is a moronic comparison to the antivax movement, yet here you are pretending to be stupid. Why?

#33 | Posted by JOE at 2021-11-07 01:10 PM | Reply

If you want to get your medical advise from a political commentator, you kinda get what's coming to you.

#27 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

If this was some magical disease that arose in everyone inherently I would agree.

But it's not and those people's proud ignorance means they place others at risk.

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 02:17 PM | Reply

Here's a nice article about vaccines and their jaded past.

So 2 incidences in the 1950's and a 1 in 100,000 increase in Guillen-Barre incidence in the 1970's.

Wow. What a "jaded" past that is. I feel so wrong having gotten any vaccine ever.

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 02:20 PM | Reply

"But it's not and those people's proud ignorance means they place others at risk."

How so?

Getting vaccinated doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it stops the individual from getting sick.

In other words, the only people who are at greater risk are those who choose to be unvaaxed.

I'll caveat that by stating that those who have recovered from COVID don't need a vax. Something that has been recognized by the European states...not so much by the US.

#36 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 02:29 PM | Reply

Wow. What a "jaded" past that is. I feel so wrong having gotten any vaccine ever.

#35 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2021-11-07 02:20 PM | REPLY

Drama queen much? You probably didn't even read the entire article. There's also a couple articles I posted for the other dishonest member here that came from Harvard Ethics. Maybe look at that. It specifically talks about the speed at which these companies are trying to get drugs approved.

Extra points, What is the FDAs track record on % of drugs that get recalled?

#37 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2021-11-07 02:53 PM | Reply

Getting vaccinated doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it stops the individual from getting sick.

It does reduce spread by two means.

a. decreased time of shedding in vaxxed infections
b. decreases chance of vaxxed catching it

It's not perfect but that doesn't mean the stats are identical for vaxxed vs unvaxxed.

In other words, the only people who are at greater risk are those who choose to be unvaaxed.

And those for whom vaccination doesn't work well, namely the elderly and the immunocompromised.

I'll caveat that by stating that those who have recovered from COVID don't need a vax. Something that has been recognized by the European states...not so much by the US.

#36 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

People think natural immunity is vastly different than vaccine induced immunity.

It's not and much of that misunderstand is from idiots who oversell it.

The primary difference is that natural immunity induces a broader response (all viral proteins, not just one) and induces a more refined response over time (too much to spell out here).

But longevity of that response differs considerably between people (estimates are 8-18 months of protection from infection-induced immunity) because the strength of immune stimulation is highly variable during infection. The strength of said immunity is pretty much directly proportional to the severity of symptoms one has, meaning asymptomatic COVID cases may not have very robust or long lasting immunity at all.

Which is why a boost to achieve hybrid immunity is a very very wise move and why vaccination even for "low risk" people is highly recommended-vaccine induced immunity is much much more homogenous and reliable with a subsequent infection boosting existing immunity and forming immune responses to new antigens found in the virus but not the vaccine.

Add to that the fact that as far as I know there isn't widespread, easily available testing to assess actual quantitative anti-SARS-CoV-2 immunity in the US and you're making a mistake akin to the "everyone who's vaxxed can go maskless in public now" debacle we had over the summer. People who think they're golden because they have a positive PCR test in their back pocket will act accordingly because they're "immune," when in reality that immunity may be weak from their mild case and they'll have a much worse case the second time around.

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Drama queen much?

Not at all.

Just better aware of the historical context than you are and laugh that that's the best you've got.

When both issues with the polio vaccine occurred they had only just discovered the physical nature of DNA. RNA? Pffft. Molecular biology to detect something like SV-40? Pfffft.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that the primary vaccines used in the US, the mRNA vaccines, aren't even made from cell lines that could possibly introduce contamination into them. Both of those incidences are moot. Rates of Guillen-Barre are comparable to every other approved vaccines so that point is also moot.

The rest is just innuendo unless you have something specific to say that's actually an argument against the current vaccines in use.

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 03:02 PM | Reply

Doesn't take a lot to expose the taaards.

#40 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-11-07 03:16 PM | Reply

"Does it really concern you all that much that stupid people are killing themselves off?"

It doesn't concern you?
I guess you're too dumb to figure out that it's bad for the economy.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 03:23 PM | Reply

"About the time I realized prescription meds was the 3rd to 4th leading cause of death in the West."

Link?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 03:25 PM | Reply

"Yet Progressives demand that many Americans who don't really need a vaccine get one."

Nobody really needs a vaccine.
Just like nobody really needs their kids not to die.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 03:26 PM | Reply

"There's also a couple articles I posted for the other dishonest member here"

You're calling me dishonest?
Wow. I didn't realize you were this much of a lost cause.

It always makes me sad to see old people slowly lose their wits.
Of course, some may not have had a lot to lose to begin with.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-07 03:30 PM | Reply

Getting vaccinated doesn't stop the spread of the virus, it stops the individual from getting sick.
In other words, the only people who are at greater risk are those who choose to be unvaaxed.

#36 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You say this all the time. And every time i see it, i remjnd you that the vaccine doesn't reduce your chances of getting Covid to absolute zero, meaning everyone who comes into contact with the willful plague rats is still being exposed to risk, including the healthcare professionals who have to treat the plague rats when they inevitably contract Covid and then magically start trusting the healthcare system.

And every time i say that you either disappear or ignore the content of my post. Wonder which one it'll be today?

#45 | Posted by JOE at 2021-11-07 03:47 PM | Reply

"People think natural immunity is vastly different than vaccine induced immunity. It's not and much of that misunderstand is from idiots who oversell it."

What "people" think it vastly different.

You can get into Europe without a COVID test if you can show proof you've recovered from COVID.

What does it get you to show that you've recovered from COVID in the US?

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 03:57 PM | Reply

#45

Joe, you need to go find someone who will provide you with enough narcotics that you can end your possible exposure to the pandemic formerly known as COVID.

I would recommend a fentanyl lollipop, but I'm guessing you don't know anyone in the military. At least not the types that would have access to a fentanyl lollipop.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 04:00 PM | Reply

#47 So you're going with "ignoring the content of my post." You're nothing if not predictable.

#48 | Posted by JOE at 2021-11-07 04:02 PM | Reply

#48 That's because you're stupid Joe.

Just stupid.

Or the rest of the world is stupid. To be fair I haven't queried your academic pedigree. Maybe you're the Albert Einstein of viruses. Maybe you know more than everyone else.

If this is the case, I apologize and defer to you.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-07 04:16 PM | Reply

What's stupid about saying that getting vaccinated doesn't reduce your chances of contracting the virus to zero? You're the -------- who said the only people at increased risk when encountering a plague rat are the unvaccinated, which is objectively false. Maybe try speaking with accuracy and you won't draw the ire of people you think are stupid.

#50 | Posted by JOE at 2021-11-07 04:20 PM | Reply

What "people" think it vastly different.

And usually vastly wrong...

You can get into Europe without a COVID test if you can show proof you've recovered from COVID.
What does it get you to show that you've recovered from COVID in the US?

#46 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

What I said made no sense to you, did it?

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2021-11-07 04:51 PM | Reply

Darwin and Science proven correct EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
I don't feel sorry for these idiots.

#52 | Posted by e1g1 at 2021-11-08 12:17 PM | Reply

"What I said made no sense to you, did it?"

No.

I'm assuming what I said made no sense to you either.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-08 03:44 PM | Reply

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