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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, November 10, 2021

U.S. consumer prices jump 6.2% in October, the biggest inflation surge in more than 30 years

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When its because of world wide shipping bottle necks and increase demand for products including gas, I'm not sure anyone can do anything about it.

#1 | Posted by Sycophant at 2021-11-10 09:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The pandemic and its affect on supply chains has it's role to play but Trump's tariffs also play a big role. He created much of this inflation with his ill-advised policies. www.forbes.com

Fortunately Biden is rolling back Trump's changes and striking real trade deals. www.nytimes.com

#2 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2021-11-10 09:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If only businesses did not fire all of their workers to save a buck during covid's peak. If only our gov. supported the supply chain before it went to crap. Oh well, free market will recover the missed profits and some. Meanwhile, average joes/jolenes are powerless and exploited.

#3 | Posted by Brennnn at 2021-11-10 10:39 AM | Reply

more worried about the climate than about a spike in Cost of Living.
you can mitigate your expenses, you can't do crap if the climate continues to boil.

fyi...Taco Bell is STILL cheap as hell...
probably the only place I know of where
I can still get enough for dinner and pay
less than $10.00

not that you want to eat there every day... :D

#4 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-11-10 10:59 AM | Reply

Prices definitely are soaring. No question about that. Pretty much all of us except for the super-rich are stuck on the sidelines watching to see how this plays out. Not a great position to be in.

#5 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-11-10 11:15 AM | Reply

more worried about the climate than about a spike in Cost of Living.

probably the only place I know of where

#4 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE AT 2021-11-10 10:59 AM | FLAG:

All you're saying is you are well off and white lol. Live near Mexicans and try a taco truck ffs. You can eat at them daily and enjoy it. Birria is your friend.

#6 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-10 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Thanks Biden!

(just using the same logic Liberals use every time

"All you're saying is you are well off and white lol."

It's sad that the Dem leaders have gotten their voters to become sheep so much that they actually do not believe that any other skin color lives well off than white people. You are racist by assuming a specific skin color, also. Considering, when you actually look at reality, many other races have well off representatives and just in my tiny life experience compared to the whole, I've been f'ed over by non-white rich people. I'm just wondering if you are proud of the fact that Dem leaders have formed your reality or do you just not know?

#7 | Posted by humtake at 2021-11-10 11:43 AM | Reply

fyi...Taco Bell is STILL cheap as hell...
probably the only place I know of where
I can still get enough for dinner and pay
less than $10.00

Cheap colon cleanse.

#8 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-11-10 11:45 AM | Reply

true...I am white and fairly well off.
But I haven't forgotten what it was like
when I wasn't well off. And unlike many
in this country, I earned it (2 college degrees,
graduated top of my class (all that jive)). Many
now-a-days just inherit their affluence.
And because I remember being near poor, if
not po poor, I vote Democrat over sellout Republican.

Remember before you judge, 'Context is everything'...

Also, Nixon, you are spot on with that! ;D

#9 | Posted by earthmuse at 2021-11-10 12:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Biden's fault. My time in office was all peaches and cream...
-The last guy and his slimy spawn

#10 | Posted by catdog at 2021-11-10 12:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is really good news actually. Trust me, the way people talk about inflation like we are using wheelbarrows of Deutsche Marks, I don't know about any of you, but when you count the second and third stimulus, my income went up far more than 6.2 percent over the past year. I think most people's have. Even social security. Gracie's just mad that she keeps her dead husband's pension under her bed like she does the body, also lifeless.

#11 | Posted by bocaink at 2021-11-10 01:13 PM | Reply

I'm just wondering if you are proud of the fact that Dem leaders have formed your reality or do you just not know?

#7 | Posted by humtake

They "formed my reality?"

You mean like making me think an election was stolen when it wasn't just by saying it over and over?

#12 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When its because of world wide shipping bottle necks and increase demand for products including gas, I'm not sure anyone can do anything about it.

#1 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2021-11-10 09:26 AM | FLAG: .... and I am sure you would make this same statement if President Trump was still in office - Right???

#13 | Posted by MSgt at 2021-11-10 01:46 PM | Reply

#1 we were energy independent during the last administration. If Biden had kept Anwar open and leases on federal lands open we wouldn't need to import energy. Throw in the future that was Keystone before he canceled it and killed 11,000 jobs with it. Now they are talking about closing Line 5. This is all by design.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-10 01:52 PM | Reply

#14 - ARGH!

There are 7000 leases that aren't being drilled right now. NOTHING would be different if ANWAR was still "open."
Keystone wouldn't have done a thing to fix any of this. Not a damn thing. It's crap crude, expensive as hell, and not profitable at the current price per barrel rates.

PLUS the Keystone would have delivered it to the refineries in LA and TX that are still working and those are already operating at full capacity because so many were hit by hurricane Ida.

As far as killing 11,000 jobs, last I looked finding workers is still the issue.

#15 | Posted by YAV at 2021-11-10 01:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Oh, and as a reminder, NONE of the output from Keystone was for US consumption. It was to be refined and shipped from the ports to the international market.

#16 | Posted by YAV at 2021-11-10 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Throw in the future that was Keystone before he canceled it and killed 11,000 jobs with it. "

Temporary jobs. CNN/Money says 35 permanent ones.
money.cnn.com

#17 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-10 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#1 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2021-11-10 09:26 AM | FLAG: .... and I am sure you would make this same statement if President Trump was still in office - Right???

#13 | Posted by MSgt

If president trump were still in office we'd be having much bigger problems than supply chain and inflation to worry about.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#1 we were energy independent during the last administration. If Biden had kept Anwar open and leases on federal lands open we wouldn't need to import energy. Throw in the future that was Keystone before he canceled it and killed 11,000 jobs with it. Now they are talking about closing Line 5. This is all by design.

#14 | Posted by BellRinger '

Yeah the design is called "save the planet".

What day did our energy independence end? Was it election day? Or inauguration day?

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 02:33 PM | Reply

Wonder who will be the first Repub to suggest bringing back slavery to reduce labor costs. I'm gonna go with Guv. DethSentence.

#20 | Posted by censored at 2021-11-10 02:40 PM | Reply

Wonder who will be the first Repub to suggest bringing back slavery to reduce labor costs. I'm gonna go with Guv. DethSentence.

#20 | Posted by censored

It's called the private prison system. They already all support it.

#21 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 02:44 PM | Reply

Temporary jobs.

All construction jobs are temporary. Killing 11k jobs when the economy was trying to recover from the pandemic was simply stupid.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-10 03:35 PM | Reply

All construction jobs are temporary. Killing 11k jobs when the economy was trying to recover from the pandemic was simply stupid.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger

Not as stupid as making fossil fuels more accessible when the planet is already being roasted.

#23 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 03:56 PM | Reply

#23 Do you like the idea of rolling brown outs and black outs like they have in California every summer?

How about nuclear power?

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-10 04:36 PM | Reply

Renewables are expensive, unreliable and can only meet a fraction of our energy needs. In the absensce of some technological breakthrough (which will likely happen at some point) fossil fuels are here for the foreseeable future. Better to keep them cheap, clean and abundant if we care at all about the financial well being of the poor and middle class.

#25 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-10 04:38 PM | Reply

"Renewables are expensive, unreliable and can only meet a fraction of our energy needs"

So what happens when non-renewables run out?

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-10 04:41 PM | Reply

#23 Do you like the idea of rolling brown outs and black outs like they have in California every summer?

How about nuclear power?

#24 | Posted by BellRinger

Why would anyone like that?

Do you like the power failures in freedom oil slurping texas when in the summer when its hot and in the winter when it's cold and people freeze to death?

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 05:16 PM | Reply

Renewables are expensive, unreliable and can only meet a fraction of our energy needs. In the absensce of some technological breakthrough (which will likely happen at some point) fossil fuels are here for the foreseeable future. Better to keep them cheap, clean and abundant if we care at all about the financial well being of the poor and middle class.

#25 | Posted by BellRinger

Update your talking points. Those have been debunked.

Maybe pick a new username too since everyone knows your old one now.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 05:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#23 Do you like the idea of rolling brown outs and black outs like they have in California every summer?"

Enron and The Invisible hand sure liked them.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-10 05:58 PM | Reply

Wages up 4.9% so we all get a pay cut. What do you think will happen when Sloppy Joe spends his trillions?

#30 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-10 08:09 PM | Reply

Wages up 4.9% so we all get a pay cut. What do you think will happen when Sloppy Joe spends his trillions?

#30 | Posted by visitor_

You seem really worried about what happens when a nation invests in its future.

I dont recall you expressing that worry when trump handed out trillions to the rich instead.

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-10 08:22 PM | Reply

Renewables in their current form are not and will never be our future. Ask Germany how well their attempted transition to renewables has worked out for them.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-10 09:37 PM | Reply

Sorry our German isn't that good but I understand lots of your older Russian women speak broken Germans.

Of course they can only say things like "it's your baby".

#33 | Posted by Tor at 2021-11-10 11:30 PM | Reply

Remember before you judge, 'Context is everything'...

#9 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE AT 2021-11-10 12:21 PM

Well done. In a current US food landscape context though, taco truck. Doesn't have to be a truck, can be a trailer or stand. US food culture can't leave franchise fast food behind quick enough, minus the spicy chicken sandwich addiction.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-11 08:54 AM | Reply

Temporary jobs. CNN/Money says 35 permanent ones.
money.cnn.com

#17 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-11-10 02:01 PM | FLAG:

This talking point shouldn't be used by any political party. Counting jobs by construction projects? Nonsense. A crew to maintain a freeway is a lot tinier than the crew it took to build it.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-11 08:55 AM | Reply

Renewables in their current form are not and will never be our future. Ask Germany how well their attempted transition to renewables has worked out for them.

#32 | Posted by BellRinger

How it WORKED OUT? You mean they're all done?

Or are you crying about the cake being ruined while its still in the oven?

Maybe ask almond farmers in california how climate change is working out for them.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-11 11:42 AM | Reply

"This talking point shouldn't be used by any political party."

Be sure to tell the guy who claimed 11,000.

#37 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-11 12:05 PM | Reply

Throw in the future that was Keystone before he canceled it and killed 11,000 jobs with it.

#14 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2021-11-10 01:52 PM | FLAG:

This is dumb and don't use this talking point.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-11 12:10 PM | Reply

"This is dumb"

That's a feature, not a bug.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-11 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Be sure to tell the guy who claimed 11,000.

#37 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-11-11 12:05 PM | FLAG:

More annoying, construction job, nor permanent job creation is a metric that's going to help supply chain throughput. The money for port upgrades in the infrastructure bill can't be used on automated crane terminals. Those have 80% higher throughput which is also the biggest environmental gain possible in this funding. We The People get outdated cranes updating outdated cranes for a slightly lower carbon footprint, but the Port Workers unions get the job security they lobbied for.

#40 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-11 12:14 PM | Reply

"Many now-a-days just inherit their affluence."

Almost no one nowadays inherits their affluence.

You're welcome.

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-11 12:55 PM | Reply

"Throw in the future that was Keystone before he canceled it and killed 11,000 jobs with it."

Are you kidding????

Killing the Keystone pipeline created jobs dude.

Without a pipeline to transport the oil, Biden created the demand for 3000 trucks per day and 800 rail cars to move the oil the pipeline would have. Not to mention that this transportation is wholly reliant on fossil fuels, which in turn means the US needs to produce (or buy) more oil, just to move oil.

Just like spice, the oil must flow. All Biden did was create the conditions where it happens less efficiently.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-11 12:59 PM | Reply

"Wonder who will be the first Repub to suggest bringing back slavery to reduce labor costs. I'm gonna go with Guv. DethSentence."

Why a repub?

We literally have politicians referring to themselves as socialists.

Socialism is slavery. Period.

#43 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-11-11 01:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

created the demand for 3000 trucks per day and 800 rail cars to move the oil the pipeline would have

More like 8,000 rail cars if not a lot more.

#44 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-11-11 01:15 PM | Reply

"We literally have politicians referring to themselves as socialists."

Democratic Socialists, which has been explained to you a million times.

"Socialism is slavery. Period."

Dumber words were never written. I'd imagine insulting, as well. Especially from someone on record for abolishing the minimum wage.

#45 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-11 01:20 PM | Reply

"Socialism is slavery. Period."

You're in Germany, right?

Are you a slave?

"Germany has a social market economy with a highly skilled labour force, a low level of corruption, and a high level of innovation." en.wikipedia.org

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-11 01:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Almost no one nowadays inherits their affluence."

Nowadays?
Did that change at some point?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-11 01:37 PM | Reply

More like 8,000 rail cars if not a lot more.

#44 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2021-11-11 01:15 PM | FLAG:

Also bad. We're still experiencing a rail car shortage and construction throughput has to be prioritized to moving goods to ease the current supply chain crunch.

#48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-11 01:41 PM | Reply

Someone who crows about America's energy independence, maybe you can explain why not having Keystone XL, which would have moved Canadian oil through America, is a problem for America.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-11 01:44 PM | Reply

Socialism is slavery. Period.

#43 | Posted by madbomber

Not being able to quit your job because you need the health insurance is slavery.

Having to owe banks 100s of thousands of dollars for college in order to get a good job is slavery.

Socialists are MORE free than you. Period.

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-11 01:45 PM | Reply

More like 8,000 rail cars...

My bad. Quick number crunching says more like 4,500 in about 40 bulk unit trains.

#51 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-11-11 02:07 PM | Reply

Socialism is slavery. Period."

Dumber words were never written. I'd imagine insulting, as well. Especially from someone on record for abolishing the minimum wage.

#45 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

He's an ignorant moron. Just the way Trumpy likes them.

But I bet he will happily cash that social security check every month.

Reminds me of them ignant teatards and their slogan of

"Keep your government hands off my Medicare!"

#52 | Posted by donnerboy at 2021-11-11 02:13 PM | Reply

"Wages up 4.9% so we all get a pay cut. What do you think will happen when Sloppy Joe spends his trillions?
#30 | POSTED BY VISITOR_ "

The fact that wages are falling behind the fake inflation number is meaningless - that is just talking about numbers on the margins - if you make $50k, maybe you are $500 poorer than the prior year. The real effects happen when interest rates on homes adjust so they are not negative. When that happen, you will have 2008-2010 play out all over again as home prices plummet and the middle class and young people (that bought over the last 5 years) see their biggest source of net worth plummet and become and anchor rather than an asset. The negative wealth effect and rate adjustments will also work to crush to the stock market which is a total bubble as well at this point fueled by cheap money.

You have been warned and in a year from now when the Dems and Fed Reserve officials are saying "No one could have foreseen this...." know that you only have yourself to blame because you have been told it well in advance - not you Vistor_ - the above is targeted at the bobble headed Dems.

#53 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-11-11 06:32 PM | Reply

The fact that wages are falling behind the fake inflation number is meaningless - that is just talking about numbers on the margins - if you make $50k, maybe you are $500 poorer than the prior year. The real effects happen when interest rates on homes adjust so they are not negative. When that happen, you will have 2008-2010 play out all over again as home prices plummet and the middle class and young people (that bought over the last 5 years) see their biggest source of net worth plummet and become and anchor rather than an asset. The negative wealth effect and rate adjustments will also work to crush to the stock market which is a total bubble as well at this point fueled by cheap money.

You have been warned and in a year from now when the Dems and Fed Reserve officials are saying "No one could have foreseen this...." know that you only have yourself to blame because you have been told it well in advance - not you Vistor_ - the above is targeted at the bobble headed Dems.

#53 | Posted by Skeptical

Oh no an asset bubble is going to pop?

Good. Bubbles are not good for the economy.

#54 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-11 07:03 PM | Reply

"Good. Bubbles are not good for the economy.
#54 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY "

Yes, it is going to pop. And the ones that will be wiped out will be the US middle class. The poor will be laid off but they just switch over to gov handouts so no big change. The middle class will have their home values and stock portfolios wiped out forcing a bunch of boomers back into the job market - but there won't be any jobs like in 2008. The rich will be bailed out again - as always.

We need to have the bubble deflate - not pop. But, the Dems need to further inflate and that cannot occur. The effects of all the money printing is going to hit in the next year - huge asset wipe out coming.

#55 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-11-11 07:11 PM | Reply

"The real effects happen when interest rates on homes adjust so they are not negative. When that happen, you will have 2008-2010 play out all over again as home prices plummet and the middle class and young people (that bought over the last 5 years) see their biggest source of net worth plummet and become and anchor rather than an asset. The negative wealth effect and rate adjustments will also work to crush to the stock market which is a total bubble as well at this point fueled by cheap money."

How could this possibly have happened?
We elected a Debt King for President, and you're saying it's going to put the middle class and young people... into (even greater) debt?

Thoughts and Prayers,
Nothing Can Be Done.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-11 07:23 PM | Reply

"How could this possibly have happened?
We elected a Debt King for President, and you're saying it's going to put the middle class and young people...
#56 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

You want to blame Trump for this coming disaster? Sorry, that is lazy thinking. What we have now is the result of 30 years of horrible government policies and corporate greed that hollowed out the US industrial base. When the system collapsed in 2008, we had a chance to hit reset, jail the bankers, and focus on building on the real economy rather than FIRE - instead, Obama chose to try to re-inflate the Wall Street bubble which is why we have had such a divergence in Wall Street vs. Main Street over the last decade. His Wall Street boom was fueled by cheap money - QE Infinity - not based on actual production/profits.

Trump was the first one that tried to fix the problem by fixing the jobs issue and weaning the US off of cheap money and was working well until covid. With Biden, he completely reversed course and went back to the Obama solution of inflating every bubble he could with cheap money while actual production is standing still - hence, the supply issues. The result is home pricing soaring and Wall Street going up but overall, 50% of the population got poorer (those reliant on wages and without owning a home). With the collapse, Biden will finish off another 40% of the population as their net worth comes crashing down.

I will give you a prediction - the Speaksoftly of this world will be laughing in glee as Elon Musk's net worth crashes to $25B from $200B while he cooks a can of beans over a garbage fire in his homeless camp proudly stating that is is a good thing when bubbles collapse - Musk will really have to change his lifestyle with only a measly $25B in net worth!

Here is an honest question for you - who do you think is buying the $30B in US treasuries yielding 2% when inflation is 6%? Who do you think is underwriting mortgages at 3%? Seriously, stop and think for once.

#57 | Posted by Skeptical at 2021-11-11 07:52 PM | Reply

Yes, it is going to pop. And the ones that will be wiped out will be the US middle class. The poor will be laid off but they just switch over to gov handouts so no big change. The middle class will have their home values and stock portfolios wiped out forcing a bunch of boomers back into the job market - but there won't be any jobs like in 2008. The rich will be bailed out again - as always.

We need to have the bubble deflate - not pop. But, the Dems need to further inflate and that cannot occur. The effects of all the money printing is going to hit in the next year - huge asset wipe out coming.

#55 | Posted by Skeptical

Or maybe the middle class will finally be able to buy a home.

Those who already had one will have it's value drop down to sanity instead of the artificial insanity it's been boosted to recently. Only idiots who recently bought at inflated prices thinking it will keep going up forever will be screwed. Even then, they could just hold their property til the value recovers at a more reasonable pace.

Maybe the poor boomers will have to sell off their vacation houses and rental properties just to survive, unclogging the supply restricted housing market. womp womp.

#58 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-11 08:50 PM | Reply

"What we have now is the result of 30 years of horrible government policies..."

You're using Republican Math.

What we have is TWENTY years of horrible government policies. Historically, Dubya and Cheney took the surplus budgets they were handed, opted for tax cuts instead, and in the long term, reset America's fiscal sights from Surplusville to Debtsylvania.

Since then, Rs have used every possible tool to eliminate as much tax revenue as possible.

#59 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-11 08:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-We need to have the bubble deflate - not pop.

How do we accomplish that?

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2021-11-11 09:26 PM | Reply

-Or maybe the middle class will finally be able to buy a home.

Same as in 08. You're right. Most won't be able to though. They'll be broke.

But I plan to take full advantage of the opportunity.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2021-11-11 09:36 PM | Reply

Another thread where capitalists call themselves socialists because Republicans used it incorrectly as an insult. Next up, black people believe they are the N word and not just use it as slang.

#62 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-11-12 07:42 AM | Reply

"You want to blame Trump for this coming disaster?"

Trump spent like a drunken sailor, especially once he failed to protect America from the Gyna Virus.

So if you're saying runaway government spending doesn't result in inflation, then I won't blame Trump.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 09:02 AM | Reply

"You want to blame Trump for this coming disaster?" Not completely, but now that the fire is really going we shouldn't add trillions more fuel.

#64 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 10:03 AM | Reply

" but now that the fire is really going we shouldn't add trillions more fuel. "

So you're in favor of overturning the Trump Tax Giveaway?

#65 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 10:26 AM | Reply

Danforth, you'll have to be more specific. There are portions I'd like to keep, larger standard deduction and limits on deductions for state property taxes. What would you like to see kept/repealed?

#66 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 10:48 AM | Reply

"What would you like to see kept/repealed?"

I'd like to see the 83% that goes to the world's wealthiest 1% repealed.

By comparison, the most lopsided tax code I'd ever seen before Trump's, was Dubya's second round of tax cuts; 27% went to the top 1%.

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:03 AM | Reply

I'd like to see a tax-increase to spending-cut tradeoff.

#68 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-12 11:06 AM | Reply

As a rule, I don't like ANY new tax cuts during a time of record deficits.

And as a longtime tax advisor, it drives me crazy when Congress wants to funnel every new law through the 1040.

#69 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:06 AM | Reply

As a rule, I don't like ANY new tax cuts during a time of record deficits.

Agreed. I also don't like any new spending increases during a time of record deficits.

Get current levels of spending and revenues where they need to be first.

#70 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-12 11:08 AM | Reply

"I'd like to see a tax-increase to spending-cut tradeoff."

Well, Mitch passed a $2.3 Trillion dollar tax giveaway, without a penny of revenue offsets.

Did you get that? The party that won't pass a Dem bill without dollar-for-dollar spending offsets, saw fit to borrow an additional 10% of all the debt we've rung up since 1776, just to give 83% to the world's wealthiest 1%, without a single penny of offsets.

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:08 AM | Reply

#71 Oh, I got that.

#72 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-12 11:09 AM | Reply

"Get current levels of spending and revenues where they need to be first."

Sorry pal, that ship sailed when you voted for the folks who passed the Trump Tax Code.

That $2.3 Trillion will have to be made up with 100% newly borrowed money.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:10 AM | Reply

"Oh, I got that."

Well, you're voting for the party 180 degrees opposite your view.

At least Dems are trying to increase revenues to offset (most of) the spending.

#74 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:12 AM | Reply

"Get current levels of spending and revenues where they need to be first."

"first"

Denial
Anger
Bargaining --- YOU ARE HERE
Depression
Acceptance

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 11:15 AM | Reply

Danforth:

I'd like to see the 83% that goes to the world's wealthiest 1% repealed.

That's not specific unless you're saying you want the whole thing repealed, even the limits on property tax deductions. You can't call that a gift to the wealthy.

#76 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 11:20 AM | Reply

" limits on property tax deductions. You can't call that a gift to the wealthy. "

I'd be happy to keep the cap.

That said, be aware it violates a principle in place since 1913: You don't pay taxes on taxes paid.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:24 AM | Reply

"I'd like to see the 83% that goes to the world's wealthiest 1% repealed."

If that's true, you're voting for the wrong folks.

#78 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:25 AM | Reply

I should have put quotes on that. I don't what portions should be repealed but I do like the limits on deductibility, even though it affects me negatively.

#79 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 11:36 AM | Reply

I didn't vote for Trump but given the policies Biden has put into place I wish I had. If i were a single issue voter and that issue was spending/revenues, yeah I could maybe vote Dem over GOP. Big picture? No way.

#80 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-12 11:45 AM | Reply

"I didn't vote for Trump"

Felony conviction?

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 11:47 AM | Reply

"I do like the limits on deductibility"

I do as well, but it creates an odd situation for folks who have paid off their houses: With the $10K cap on state/local/RE/PPT taxes, and a ~$27K standard deduction for a couple, that means they could give $17,000 to charity...and it wouldn't move the needle. My first client couple, newly retired, had ~$4K in real estate taxes, and $600 in ppt, meaning ONLY THE AMOUNTS OVER $22,400 to charity would've affected the IRS bottom line.

"You could give twenty-two thousand dollars to charity and it wouldn't move the needle" is NOT something I should be able to say, especially to someone with a resultant income tax liability.

#82 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:53 AM | Reply

"Big picture? No way."

Well, "big picture" equals "tax cuts until we can't print more money". Republicans haven't lifted a finger in 20 years to raise revenue.

"I didn't vote for Trump but..."

...but you voted for his enablers, in case he won.

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It may be unpopular here. But deductions for charitable giving shouldn't be deductible until a high threshold. See St. Jude's thread.

#84 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 12:00 PM | Reply

By big picture I'm talking all policies.

Border security
Energy independence
A deregulatory push taking the heavy foot of government off the neck of the economy
Pushback against insertion of CRT into government agencies.
A weakened and isolated Iran
A weakened and somewhat isolated Russia
Getting our NATO allies to at least come close to meeting their defense spending obligations
Strong support for Israel and the Abraham Accords
Undoing a policy that turned college campuses from being kangaroo courts when dealing with sexual assault allegations
Keystone pipeline

I could list more but that will suffice for now

#85 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-11-12 12:10 PM | Reply

"Undoing a policy that turned college campuses from being kangaroo courts when dealing with sexual assault allegations"

^
Classic JeffJ

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 12:17 PM | Reply

"You want to blame Trump for this coming disaster?" Not completely, but now that the fire is really going we shouldn't add trillions more fuel.

#64 | Posted by visitor_

Right. The rich get their trillions, but trillions for the working class is just unreasonable.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-12 12:57 PM | Reply

"It may be unpopular here. But deductions for charitable giving shouldn't be deductible until a high threshold."

I disagree completely. And I like the changes in the last two years, with 2020 filings allowing up to a $300 deduction above the AGI line, and $300/person below the AGI line* for 2021. I'd like to see that number at least doubled.

*Above AGI usually means a de-facto state tax deduction as well, since most states start with your Adjusted Gross Income. (Usually, states get caught unawares when Congress finishes the 1040 at the 11th hour.) AGI is attained by taking your Gross Income (Wages, Interest, Dividends, Self-Employed Profits, Farm Income, [Up to 85% of] Social Security, and Other income), and then Adjusting it with things like HSA contributions, Traditional IRAs, Other Pension contributions, and half of any self-employment Payroll Taxes. "Below the line" means it's subtracted from Federal Taxable Income AFTER the AGI is calculated. Last year, to ameliorate dropping revenue, some states added back in the charity deduction as taxable income on the State level.

Back before the Trump Code, charity was an easy sale: for itemizers (~30% of filers), I'd point out a donation of $1000 worth of used clothing and goods could net over $300 on their returns. Now, with only about 5% itemizing, the vast majority of filers could give $5000/person to charity, and it wouldn't change a thing, (save the current $300/filer, which will net someone in the 22% marginal rate $66).

#88 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 12:59 PM | Reply

I didn't vote for Trump but given the policies Biden has put into place I wish I had. If i were a single issue voter and that issue was spending/revenues, yeah I could maybe vote Dem over GOP. Big picture? No way.

#80 | Posted by BellRinger

Yeah if spending were a bigger problem to you than replacing democracy with fascism.

But that would make you an america hating moron.

Then there's the problem that theres zero evidence that repubs spend less on democrats. Your "dems spend more" brainwashing is permanent, no matter what the facts are.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-12 01:00 PM | Reply

By big picture I'm talking all policies.

Border security
Energy independence
A deregulatory push taking the heavy foot of government off the neck of the economy
Pushback against insertion of CRT into government agencies.
A weakened and isolated Iran
A weakened and somewhat isolated Russia
Getting our NATO allies to at least come close to meeting their defense spending obligations
Strong support for Israel and the Abraham Accords
Undoing a policy that turned college campuses from being kangaroo courts when dealing with sexual assault allegations
Keystone pipeline

I could list more but that will suffice for now

#85 | Posted by BellRinger

What about the policies of ending democracy? Seems like a bigger deal that your pathetic list.

What about the policy of lying about a pandemic and spreading mistrust of medical advise that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of citizens? You know - the policy he admitted on tape that he lied to the country about?

#90 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-12 01:02 PM | Reply

"By big picture I'm talking all policies."

Nothing about education except right-wing talking points.
Nothing about affordable housing.
Nothing about health care.
Nothing about jobs.
Nothing about the environment.
Nothing about the economy beyond the usual right-wing talking point of deregulation.

Just neocon jingoism and White Nationalism.

Trump's policies, in every regard.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Unless you are wealthy or extraordinarily generous the increase in standard deduction more than offset the SALT deductioo limit.

#92 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 05:19 PM | Reply

Unless you are wealthy or extraordinarily generous the increase in standard deduction more than offset the SALT deductioo limit.

#92 | Posted by visitor_

Unless you are wealthy, the trump tax cuts were small and temporary. But the ones for the rich were huge and permanent.

Trump paid america hush money like we're a porn star so we wouldnt say anything when he gave away the national treasure to the rich.

#93 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-12 05:51 PM | Reply

I've asked for the specifics, what specifically are the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy? One or two examples please.

#94 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 06:06 PM | Reply

"I've asked for the specifics, what specifically are the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy?"

Those Who Benefit
These were not the results Republican backers of the tax overhaul promised. Speaking at a rally in 2018 in Indiana shortly after the release of a preliminary tax reform framework in September, President Trump repeatedly stressed that the "largest tax cut in our country's history" will "protect low-income and middle-income households, not the wealthy and well-connected."37

In its finalized form, however, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act cuts the corporate tax rate, benefiting shareholders, who tend to be higher earners. It only cuts individuals' taxes for a limited period of time. It scales back the alternative minimum tax and estate tax, as well as reducing the taxes levied on pass-through income (70% of which goes to the highest-earning 1%). It does not close the carried interest loophole, which benefits professional investors. It scraps the individual mandate, likely driving up premiums and making health insurance unaffordable for millions.

These provisions taken together are likely to benefit high earners disproportionately and"particularly as a result of scrapping the individual mandate"hurt some working- and middle-class taxpayers.
www.investopedia.com

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-12 06:12 PM | Reply

Good. Then repeal those sections. Why is the SALT limit part of the infrastructure bill?

#96 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 06:19 PM | Reply

Good. Then repeal those sections. Why is the SALT limit part of the infrastructure bill?

#96 | Posted by visitor_

Because the infrastructure bill is the only place to pass anything because your cult can filibuster everything else.

Trump changed SALT to punish blue states that didn't vote for him.

Dems are changing it back to end the crybaby trump policy.

#97 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-12 06:37 PM | Reply

Repealing the SALT limit benefits only the wealthy.

#98 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 06:52 PM | Reply

"I've asked for the specifics, what specifically are the Trump tax cuts for the wealthy? One or two examples please."

Easy: A continuation of GRATs, a continuation of carried interest, and new Trump: breaks for business owners, breaks for landlords, killer breaks for real estate developers like Trump, and a 40% slash of corporate taxes.

83% goes to the world's wealthiest 1%; 60% goes to the top .1%. More goes to foreign investors (>15%) than to American workers

#99 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-11-12 10:47 PM | Reply

Good, repeal all that and the stuff Snoofy mentioned too but keep SALT limits and changes to standard deduction.

#100 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-11-12 11:47 PM | Reply

Repealing the SALT limit benefits only the wealthy.

#98 | Posted by visitor_

In expensive places to live it benefits people who are struggling like everyone else.

Maybe biden should put a tax on trailer parks. How would that strike you?

#101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-11-13 12:16 AM | Reply

Golly, where is all this inflation coming from?

Natural gas customers in Texas get stuck with $3.4 billion cold-snap surcharge
State oil and gas regulator will allow exemptions from winterization mandates.

Texans will be paying for the effects of last February's cold snap for decades to come, as the state's oil and gas regulator approved a plan for natural gas utilities to recover $3.4 billion in debt they incurred during the storm.

arstechnica.com

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-11-13 12:22 AM | Reply

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