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Thursday, December 02, 2021

Alec Baldwin says he "didn't pull the trigger" of the gun that fatally wounded cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the set of his film, Rust.

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Mr Baldwin has a problem.

The problem, as I've seen it reported, is that he has two roles in this incident.

He was an actor.

He also was a producer.

So... as an actor he can say "Alec Baldwin says he 'didn't pull the trigger'."

But as a producer, he has different responsibilities.

As a producer, does he have a responsibility to assure that the actors can act without killing each other?

I dunno.

This is complex.

Above my pay-grade.


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-12-01 10:06 PM | Reply

This is complex.

It is. I'm interested in where the live ammo came from. I've read where some of the prop ammo may have been reloads.

Lawyers are going to make a lot of bank off it, that's for certain... Gloria Allred is already getting a taste.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-01 10:29 PM | Reply

@#2 ... It is. I'm interested in where the live ammo came from. I've read where some of the prop ammo may have been reloads. ...

Yup.

I am, however, concerned that Mr Baldwin may be melding his dual roles, trying to hide behind the "I was an actor" role in order to reduce his "I was a producer, and possibly responsible" role.

This one is going to be around for a while.


#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-12-01 10:39 PM | Reply

This one is going to be around for a while.

No doubt. The whole production sounds like it was a ---- show.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-01 10:45 PM | Reply

Technically Baldwin isn't lying. In gun parlance one doesn't pull the trigger; one squeezes the trigger.

#5 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-12-01 10:52 PM | Reply

@#5 ... Technically Baldwin isn't lying. ,,,

Technically, you need to specify the role Mr Baldwin acted in.

.. .In gun parlance one doesn't pull the trigger; one squeezes the trigger. ...

That appears to refer to Mr Baldwin the actor, not Mr Baldwin the producer.

Therein lies the rub, imho.



#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2021-12-01 11:02 PM | Reply

Gun parlance is full of pedantic idiots.

#7 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-01 11:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Guns have nothing to do with this.
--Boaz

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-02 03:32 AM | Reply

How did the pistols go off?

#9 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-12-02 07:13 AM | Reply

Una pistola, not "pistols."

#10 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-12-02 07:18 AM | Reply

#9 I'm sure this was somehow Trump's fault.

#11 | Posted by fishpaw at 2021-12-02 07:19 AM | Reply

How did the pistols go off?

One would assume he pulled the trigger or the gun was defective. Obviously he had to at least caulk it. One story I read said the scene they were doing didn't involve firing the gun but just drawing it, and it went off the second time they rehearsed it.

#12 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 07:28 AM | Reply

It's not complex. Alex Baldwin was playing with a gun, pulled the trigger, and somebody died.

#13 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 07:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"It just went off" is the most common excuse given by people that just shot somebody while they were playing with a gun.

#14 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 07:36 AM | Reply

Was he drawing the pistol from a holster?

#15 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2021-12-02 08:24 AM | Reply

Obviously he had to at least caulk it.

#12 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2021-12-02 07:28 AM | FLAG:

It looked like a Colt Lightning or derivative, and those are double-action pistols. Double-action revolvers came out in 1850 and the pop-out drum double-action Colts since the late 1800s.

For those unfamiliar, a double-action pistol ----- itself when you pull the trigger. It just takes a longer trigger pull to mechanically actuate the hammer into position, which is held by a sear. The sear then drops at the end of the pull, releasing the hammer which fires the bullet.

Alec Baldwin playing around drawing a pistol 100% certainly pulled the trigger to shoot it.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 08:38 AM | Reply

An uncocked double-action pistol can only be fired by completely pulling the trigger.

Alec Baldwin is blaming the gun.

#17 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 08:39 AM | Reply

What Baldwin is holding in those pictures is either a Lightning or Thunderer, same pistol different calibers, and those are definitely double-action pistols. I have a Lightning in my collection.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 08:43 AM | Reply

Alec Baldwin has killed more people than your average "assault rifle" owner.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2021-12-02 10:18 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The auto-censoring of a mechanical action in a firearm lol. What if I change it up? a double action pistol roosters itself when you pull the trigger?

#20 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 10:51 AM | Reply

"Alec Baldwin is blaming the gun."

In an interesting twist, right-wingers aren't blaming the moral decline that led up to this.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-02 11:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In an interesting twist, right-wingers aren't blaming the moral decline that led up to this.

#21 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2021-12-02 11:02 AM | FLAG:

It's an easy target too. Hollywood is better at gun sales than the NRA.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 11:24 AM | Reply

It looked like a Colt Lightning or derivative...

It was an F.lli Pietta long Colt 45.

#23 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 12:06 PM | Reply

45 Long Colt is a caliber. Pietta is a company that makes reproductions. Pietta makes reproductions in both Single and Double action, even in historical firearms that were only single action.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 12:27 PM | Reply

and "Pietta Long Colt 45" isn't something they make. They make many different replicas in both actions and a lot of different calibers. I prefer Cimmaron for a nice reproduction, but I wouldn't let mine be played with in movies either.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 12:37 PM | Reply

It was an 1873 single action.

#26 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 12:37 PM | Reply

For the really pedantic, it was a replica of an 1873 Colt SSA, Single action, chambered in .45 Long Colt, made by Pietta in Italy.

#27 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 12:42 PM | Reply

Alec Baldwin has killed more people than your average "assault rifle" owner.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger

And your point is......?

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-12-02 12:46 PM | Reply

And your point is......?

Obviously that there are not many assault rifle owners.

#29 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 12:55 PM | Reply

Not pedantic enough. It's a Colt SAA, but Pietta has multiple models, even ones that came in double action inexplicably. Probably the ironically named "Californian" then? It's the most "period correct" replica, and doesn't have a transfer bar that helps prevent you from going off half-cocked. Still takes a trigger pull though to drop the hammer enough to set off the primer on a cowboy load.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 01:32 PM | Reply

"Alec Baldwin has killed more people than your average "assault rifle" owner.

And your point is......?
#28 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Why don't you just say Oh Wattsa difference and be done with it?
*spits

#31 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-02 01:37 PM | Reply

Finally someone knows what they are talking about.. The reporters all said 45 cal. One wondered why the safety wasn't on..

45 long Colt revolver.

#32 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-02 01:41 PM | Reply

The reporters all said 45 cal.

They also use "dummy round", "blank round" and "live round" in a rather random fashion.

#33 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 01:54 PM | Reply

It's a Colt SAA, but Pietta has multiple models, even ones that came in double action inexplicably.

The sheriff said it was a Pietta single action revolver in the press conference... that's all I have to go on.

#34 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 01:57 PM | Reply

Why don't you just say Oh Wattsa difference and be done with it?
*spits

#31 | Posted by phesterOBoyle

Whats the difference between what?

An actor who has an accident with a prop on set versus an ---------- whose kid shoots up his school with his dad's gun?

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2021-12-02 02:28 PM | Reply

Yeah the Sheriff's info is a bit incomplete. In the pictures it looked like a Thunderer, another looked like a M1878, another looked like the Pietta Californian SAA which is most likely it. None of them are firearms known to go off from being drawn.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-02 02:31 PM | Reply

Yes a "six shooter" in 45 long Colt - Single Action which of course means the hammer must be thumbed back. It's virtually impossible for a single action revolver to go off without squeezing the trigger.

#37 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-02 03:01 PM | Reply

Redial, why would someone caulk a pistol? I have caulk gun but it doesn't ----.

#38 | Posted by visitor_ at 2021-12-02 04:36 PM | Reply

You should see shortly.

#39 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 04:40 PM | Reply

There. Now what is it your caulk gun doesn't do?

#40 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 06:44 PM | Reply

"It's virtually impossible for a single action revolver to go off until *AFTER the hammer is manually cocked.
#37 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE"

Edited for clarity.

#41 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-02 07:30 PM | Reply

It's virtually impossible for a single action revolver to go off until *AFTER the hammer is manually cocked.

True enough. I expect the point of the rehearsal was to draw and ---- the weapon but not fire it, but I have not seen any details.

#42 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 07:47 PM | Reply

Watched his interview tonite and he claims he cocked the hammer but did not touch the trigger.
And the gun went off.
So..did he fail to lock the hammer back? Thumb slipped off?
As soon as the hammer starts back, the hand starts revolving the cylinder to the next round..
He sounded credible.

#43 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-02 10:44 PM | Reply

So..did he fail to lock the hammer back? Thumb slipped off?

I did that a long time ago with a Model 1900 Winchester rifle. Good thing it was pointed at the ground.

#44 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-02 10:51 PM | Reply

What keeps bugging me is that if the hammer fails to go all the way back, the cylinder won't be in the correct position. IOW the cycle is not quite complete.

#45 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-03 10:51 AM | Reply

Will the circle be unbroken
By and by Lord, by and by
There's a better home awaiting
In the sky, Lord, in the sky

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-03 11:07 AM | Reply

IOW the cycle is not quite complete.

My guess is either he had his finger on the trigger or the gun was defective. That said, who knows?

#47 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-03 12:18 PM | Reply

So if he didn't pull the trigger than wouldn't he have been screaming that after the gun fired? There would be witnesses to him saying that as well and that would have led the story right after it happened. He's full of crap.

#48 | Posted by fishpaw at 2021-12-03 12:19 PM | Reply

Man, I saw this on Fox and the comments shocked me. Cons actually believe this is some kind of way for rich Liberals to play the most dangerous game legally. Like Alec planned this whole thing. While it is a possibility, jumping to that conclusion is really, really stupid.

#49 | Posted by humtake at 2021-12-03 12:30 PM | Reply

#49 Freaks on both sides, like the loony Dems who can't admit that someone actually drove the SUV into the crowd.

#50 | Posted by fishpaw at 2021-12-03 12:58 PM | Reply

A former colleague is a longtime cameramen on Grey's Anatomy. A FB friend of his posted this, roughly a month ago:

Guns on set are not the issue.
I know this may rub some people the wrong way but if all we talk about is where the bullet came from and how we need to abolish guns on sets, we are missing an opportunity to discuss something much bigger that really needs to be addressed.
Guns on set are not the issue. An industry wide culture of cost cutting and bottom line over safety is the real issue. Its what lies behind this tragedy, lies behind long hours, lies behind everything we fear, and sadly it's not being discussed the way it should be.
Today a film I worked on last year, The Harder They Fall, comes out on Netflix. I'm really proud of the work we did on this it but this recent tragedy has definitely tainted that feeling due to the similarities between the two. Not only was it a western shot in NM and shot partly at Bonanza Creek at that, but as you can see from the atrocious screen grabs I took (sorry Mihai), we filmed in the same church at Bonanza where our colleague lost her life in a tragic and completely avoidable situation a few weeks back. We even had a cast member shooting another cast member in that very church, not once, but three times, with stunts, and yet everything went off without issue.
There were guns on both sets. There were guns being fired on both sets. So clearly guns can't be the issue. I can't tell you what happened on the set of Rust because I wasn't there and the investigation is still ongoing - but there were certainly several opportunities for this situation to be averted by multiple people who should have cleared that weapon correctly and didn't. I can however tell you what happened on our set and as you can see, there are redundancies built in to avoid just this type of situation.
Every time guns were to be on set it was listed on the call sheet (and prelim) the day before and there were links to the safety bulletins for using weapons on set.
Every time a gun came out it was announced.
Every time it was announced that a gun was on set our AD would check it with our armorer, announce that it was cleared, and invite anyone who wanted to clear it to do so as well. As an op, I would either watch it being cleared or ask to have it cleared for me and I was never denied.
Every time we rehearsed or filmed a take with a weapon, the actors had the weapons cleared in front of them by the armorer. The only people to ever handle the weapons were the actors or the armorers. Period.
Every time we had gunfire going off it was announced how many shots there would be and we rehearsed it in advance with a cold/empty weapon.
Every time we had gunfire anyone not necessary was cleared from the area and anyone in line with the weapon was given adequate safety devices (plex shields, ear protection, eye protection, sound blankets) or the camera was not operated.
Every time before a gun was fired the AD called out "Fire in the hole" followed by the number of shots to be fired. This was after he checked with everyone involved if they were ready and felt safe.
Every time we were done with a shot that involved gunfire, no one moved until the armorer had taken the weapon back, cleared it, and the AD ascertained that everyone was OK and ready to move on.
Every time we had gunfire, everyone slowed down just a bit no matter how far behind we were in the day, because accidents happen when you are going too fast and none of us was willing to take that chance.
Every. Time.

#51 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-12-03 01:27 PM | Reply

...con't

This is how a set with gunfire should be run and it's why, with the thousands of rounds that were fired on our set, many directly at me or our DP, we had zero issues. So the problem isn't guns, the problem is crews being pushed too hard and moving too fast, producers hiring people who aren't safe and then looking the other way when alerted, and crew members who express concerns but aren't able to create meaningful change. I can tell you that if even one of the things that I have read about had occurred on our set, those people would have been shown the door for not being safe. We would have demanded it and our producers would have agreed.
I dont know what the answers are and frankly have no issue with real guns being banned from the industry, but if that was the true problem wouldn't we be seeing this issue all the time? Certainly there are enough shows using weapons. My point in all of this I guess is to try and keep the conversation where I believe it should be - focused on the people who allowed this to happen and even enabled it by not listening when they were told time and again that they had an unsafe set, and who started the process by not hiring key people who could create a safe atmosphere. We know they interviewed other armorers who turned down the show when they were told they wouldn't hire the personnel that were needed, so budget drove the bus. The tragedy was realized by a gun but it was set in motion long before this incident happened.
Guns are not the problem. Corner cutting productions that expect results without giving the time, resources, or professional crew to do the job safely are the problem. That's what we should be talking about and as far as I'm concerned, while there is a lot of culpibility on set, some active and some due to negligence, there's just as much if not more up in the office and beyond. To be clear I am not suggesting that anyone should be let off the hook for their part in this. Hopefully this doesn't stop with just the AD and the armorer and it sends a message to other low budget producers and the executives behind them that you can only expect so much before you put people at risk and pay the price.
This time a gun. Next time? Let's not take the easy fix but try and fix the larger issue. We need a complete shift in culture, not just a ban on guns. This was completely avoidable and should have never occurred.
It takes a village to keep a crew safe and that means EVERYONE being vigilant and speaking up. If you are on the on set crew side, keep your eyes open, ask questions, and look out for those around you. If you are on the production side, listen to your crew when they have issues and investigate every single issue rather than worrying how it will affect your day. We are all part of the solution and it involves being heard, being loud, and staying united when confronted with unsafe sets.
Be Safe. Be Smart. Speak Up.

#52 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-12-03 01:28 PM | Reply

"Like Alec planned this whole thing. While it is a possibility, jumping to that conclusion is really, really stupid.
#49 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE"

I'm no fan, but that is crazy talk.

#53 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2021-12-03 02:07 PM | Reply

Guns on set are not the issue.

#51 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-12-03 01:27 PM | FLAG:

Also what tens of millions of gun owners say, their ownership is not the issue. How do you feel about that?

#54 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-03 02:34 PM | Reply

I feel folks on the streets should have training requirements, like set armorers do.

#55 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-12-03 05:08 PM | Reply

Every time we rehearsed or filmed a take with a weapon, the actors had the weapons cleared in front of them by the armorer.

At least 4 people should have or could have done that in this case but no one did. I wonder why not?

I also wonder, given that it was a non-firing rehearsal, why the cylinder wasn't just empty.

#56 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-03 05:13 PM | Reply

EXCLUSIVE: "The trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger," Alec Baldwin

So guns do kill people!

#57 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-12-04 03:38 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I feel folks on the streets should have training requirements, like set armorers do."

Yeah.

Sounds like these guys were super-well trained.

Probably like anything else in Hollywood. They got the job because they knew someone.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2021-12-04 03:44 AM | Reply

#55 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2021-12-03 05:08 PM | REPLY

So less qualified than Concealed Carry Permit holders. Seems like a long winded excuse to play with guns so you can look cool on film.

#59 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2021-12-04 07:44 AM | Reply

They got the job because they knew someone.

More like they got the job because they were cheap. It's not like this was a big time movie in the works.

#60 | Posted by REDIAL at 2021-12-04 10:51 AM | Reply

"So less qualified than Concealed Carry Permit holders."

But more qualified than the current average. Yes?

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-12-04 01:13 PM | Reply

"Probably like anything else in Hollywood. They got the job because they knew someone."

Then why don't incidents like this happen on a daily basis? Certainly Hollywood is shooting something or blowing something up every day of the year. Why only a few isolated incidents per decade?

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2021-12-04 01:18 PM | Reply

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