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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, December 05, 2021

Just 18% of US households are 'nuclear families' with a married couple and children, down from 40% since 1970s and the lowest since 1959 The Census Bureau's count showed that 17.8 percent of the United States' 130 million households featured married parents with children under the age of 18 That's only down from 18.6 percent from last year but down much more significantly from over 40 percent in 1970 There are currently just 23.1 million American homes with those 'nuclear families,' which is the fewest since 1959

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Cultural decline as evidenced by a preoccupation with weaponry, conspiratorial cults, and fascist messiahs?

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2021-12-05 10:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

The Hillbilly Renaissance is a real thing. The ignorant, the violent, the socially inept, the paranoid, the emotionally and intellectually superficial have always been with us. It's just that now cynical people have realized they can tap into all of that low-rent craziness and rake in cash and power.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2021-12-05 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Actually, it's in decline because you've had a purposeful catering to the mouthbreathing, most dumbass segment of our society by disinformation peddlers to float an increasingly non viable political party.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2021-12-05 10:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What exactly is a cultural decline?

Culture is the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

The movies of Hollywood are shown throughout the world, American Football, Baseball and Basketball are very popular (though not as popular as soccer outside the US-though there are reasons for that). Literature and music quite popular.

What exactly is in decline in our "culture"?

#4 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The Census Bureau's count showed that 17.8 percent of the United States' 130 million households featured married parents with children under the age of 18

A really surprising statistic, but I'm also curious at a deeper level of data analysis on this headline figure.

It's well known that people in the US are having less kids, and I know many married millennial couples who intentionally intend to never have kids. There is also an aging population within the US which would impact the overall figure of two parents+kid(s) under 18. An intentional child free life + aging population would severely impact the overall statistic of "nuclear family."

To really analyze the nuclear family trend over time, I feel like you would have to isolate the households with adults under a certain age, then compare y/n of whether there is a kid under 18 also in the same household. Compare that rate from the past vs present and that type of breakout might be more comparable, while eliminating the boomer and older demographic who count as a household but are childless due to their offspring being adults.

I'm curious how others here would isolate these variables.

#5 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-05 11:07 AM | Reply

I would isolate the "nuclear" family statistics from an interpretation of "cultural" decline, but that is just me.

#6 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 11:16 AM | Reply

-What exactly is in decline in our "culture"?

That's my question as well. What we're actually experiencing is a demographic/societal shift where we have fewer married couples with children under 18 living in the same home.

That's a decline. But is it a "cultural" decline?

It's a shift for sure.

It's as if we're saying couples with no kids are bad people.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 11:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What exactly is in decline in our "culture"?

Ol' Bozo has no friggin' clue.

#8 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-12-05 11:56 AM | Reply

We're not in a cultural decline. We have the same demographics as we have always had. Just because you don't agree with their culture and customs doesn't mean it's in decline.

#9 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2021-12-05 11:58 AM | Reply

#7 and #5

I have a couple of Millenial friends who have children but are not married. They live together and have for years both before and after the child/ren and for all intents and purposes are married but for whatever reason never actualy got hitched. A statistic like this would of course not count them but from a cultural or "moral" standpoint they fit the mold of nuclear family so well most people just assume they are.

In two cases yesterday I did fireplaces in homes with a father and mother and kids and when the check was written it had two last names. Are they married and kept maiden name or not married but joint account, and joint home. Don't know, don't care, they seemed like a nuclear family until I looked at the names on the check.

Younger generations, I have noticed, don't feel the need to formilize their relationship with a legal document the way older generations did. That doesn't mean they aren't still practicing the same values as a legaly married couple.

#10 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2021-12-05 12:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The couple in Michigan were a nuclear family yet apparently left their child with an untreated psychosis resulting in a tragedy

Just saying

#11 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 12:32 PM | Reply

"Just 18% of US households are 'nuclear families' with a married couple and children, down from 40% since 1970s and the lowest since 1959"

Well if that's how you're measuring cultural decline, it Sure sounds like the driving force behind the decline is:

"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

Also, it says we're at 1959 levels. But wasn't the culture better in 1959?

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 12:34 PM | Reply

We are in cultural decline because men like Boaz turned his back on his own people.

#13 | Posted by byrdman at 2021-12-05 12:40 PM | Reply

Boaz, you posted some top-level numbers that show a trend, in business terms a dashboard.

But the dashboard isn't the reason for the decline. It's just the data that show which way things are going.

What you're doing here is saying the reason the car ran out of gas is because the fuel gauge is on E.

You posted some evidence, but provided no reasons for it. That's just lazy thinking, Boaz.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Cultural Decay

Many people have struggled to define the term "culture" due to such a variety of societal aspects. According to the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, culture is "the customs and beliefs, art, way of life and social organization of a particular country or group." So, defining culture in this way, the term describes all the means by which a specific society explains itself to its members. This, for example, includes literature, music, values or different works of art and gives all human beings a sense of meaning that embeds them within their society. However, there are sometimes traits that are not unique to the normative standards of the dominant culture. That implies that there are specific social groups which differ from the majority of the society. They are described as "subcultures". That makes clear, that there is no standard culture because of regional and social differences. Nevertheless, all different cultures have established their own way of thinking, living and being. Whenever a culture is questioned by a large group of its population it results in a change of the established structures. Some of the changes are good, but history has shown that they often tend to be changes for the worst in the long run.

In this case, the term "decay" is used refer to this process. According to the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, it means "the gradual destruction of a society, an institution, a system, etc." Therefore, it can be said that the term "cultural decay" describes the loss of respect for tradition, a weakening of the cultural foundations, and a decrease in cultural diversity.

It is very important to consider the cultural identity of the individuals when talking about "cultural decay". That means that their behaviours, customs and traditions might not be seen as normal by every other culture. Therefore, it always needs to be specified from which perspective someone passes judgement about another culture. Finally, it has to be said that "cultural decay" does not necessarily mean that there is a decline in every facet of the culture. While one part is in decline, some other parts might simultaneously be in expanding.

www.grin.com

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2021-12-05 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

People like Boaz (fascists) always look for a scapegoat. Always. In this case, he's scapegoating a huge enough swath of Americans so as to raise the alarm that "The Enemy Is Inside The Wire!"

Meanwhile, Trump is the most decadent figure in American politics, and Boaz thinks he's our best shot at ending our cultural decay.

Decadent:
disapproving : having low morals and a great love of pleasure, money, fame, etc.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Ethnostate = A bunch of Communist black people who want to create their own ethnic country on 200 acres of homesteaded mountain range in Colorado.

Cultural decay?

#17 | Posted by Twinpac at 2021-12-05 01:15 PM | Reply

The "cultural decay" aspect is a subjective takeaway from the data, and immaterial, possibly irrelevant. Culture in general is subjective - and this is from someone who is a believer in BlueJean diplomacy.

This data could be more useful to gain insight on what demographics (regions of the US + average cost of living in that quadrant, ages of pairings within the households, household income ranges, household income range as a ratio of regional COL) have offspring and what demographic household compositions are without child(ren).

If one has an axiom of protecting the nuclear family at all costs, then the data insights mentioned above could be used to inform policymakers to craft favorable conditions for forming nuclear family units based on what is currently working in various regions within the US.

#18 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-05 01:56 PM | Reply

-What exactly is in decline in our "culture"?

Civility, in the big picture sense due to income inequality.

Trump is the most decadent figure in American politics,

No doubt, so then you agree its declining, I would add the Media as well, along with Psaki.

Cultural decay? ~Twinpack

Exactly, that would be a sign that its in decay. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing, I support it But people wanting to escape into their little fiefdoms, as opposed to being part of something that is a sign of decay. If it weren't decaying they wouldn't need/want to isolate themselves culturally.

What we're actually experiencing is a demographic/societal shift where we have fewer married couples with children under 18 living in the same home

We are experiencing more than that, we are seeing "single" parents having more kids, and married couples having less kids. It creates inequity.
This line of separate paths is nothing more than "class" lines. Poor people are having more kids, and aren't raising them to standard. Whereas Rich people are teaming up creating a couple of incomes (DINK if memory serves me right)

Idiocracy comes to mind.

Is it wrong? No, but it is making things worse; Even seemingly good things can make things worse, through second order effects, and visa versa.
www.aei.org

#TwoIsBetterThanOne
#FamilyCommunityOverStateFederal
#ShopSmall
#ButLocal

#19 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-05 02:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The "cultural decay" aspect is a subjective takeaway from the data, and immaterial, possibly irrelevant

This is in reference to the simplistic takeaway that a decline in traditional nuclear family statistic is

    our culture.

Studies demonstrate the value of a nuclear family as a concept. I agree with those studies. Outside of externalities and on a country-wide scale,, a two caregiving household has better odds to provide better rearing outcomes than single caregiver.

My largest critique on this DailyMail headline is the current age-related demographics at play which skew the current outcomes resulting in the declining statistic. An easy and faux fix would be for older generational households to either split up, to adopt or foster child(ren) so that they can be counted as a nuclear family unit >:).

#20 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-05 02:06 PM | Reply

Whereas Rich people are teaming up creating a couple of incomes (DINK if memory serves me right)

DINK is definitely the word for it. Seems very common in tech & FAANG-worker circles.

#21 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-05 02:08 PM | Reply

Seems very common in tech & FAANG-worker circles.

As a former F, and current G I can say for a fact this is correct; except for foreign workers (Chinese, Indian) they take marriage and children seriously, hence the Cupertino School district being so competitive. Which also is why, in general, they can afford the homes in silicon valley. DIWK ;-)

This is in reference to the simplistic takeaway that a decline in traditional nuclear family statistic is our culture.

A valid observation, I would argue that all culture values have roots in the family unit; ergo, less families, the culture will suffer/fragment.

An easy and faux fix would be for older generational households to either split up, to adopt or foster child(ren) so that they can be counted as a nuclear family unit >:).

Incentives is the issue IMO, why would an older person (>50) want to raise children again? What is the incentive to have single parent households, why are DINKs not having kids? Family leave? Child support enforcement? idk ..

Well, I would also argue that it doesn't have to be a man and woman to have a nuclear family. Just that it requires two people with a shared interest, namely wanting to raise kids. That being said, I see no reason, to be married other than to nurture children. You make an interesting observation, multigenerational families are even better.

As a thought experiment, perhaps once a society goes down that path it can't go back, how do single parent children even understand what a two parent household is like.

#FamilyGreaterThanGovernment

I would also amend my argument about income inequality, it all begins with parental inequality which begets income inequality.

#22 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-05 03:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"No doubt, so then you agree its declining, I would add the Media as well, along with Psaki"

Psaki? LOL.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:10 PM | Reply

"it all begins with parental inequality which begets income inequality."

How does that work?
How did "parental inequality" cause worker pay to start lagging worker productivity in the 70s?
???

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Studies demonstrate the value of a nuclear family as a concept. I agree with those studies."

Can I see some of these studies?

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:14 PM | Reply

"Outside of externalities and on a country-wide scale,, a two caregiving household has better odds to provide better rearing outcomes than single caregiver."

Wait, are you saying a nuclear family is better than the alternative... but the only alternative you're comparing it to is a single-parent family, aka "broken home?"

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:16 PM | Reply

Why did you destroy America snoofy?

Why???

#27 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2021-12-05 03:19 PM | Reply

"Trump is the most decadent figure in American politics"
"No doubt, so then you agree its declining"

Republicans are declining.
Democrats don't make their party a celebration of those values.

Any aggregate measure will show a decline, but it's not evenly distributed.
It's sort of like COVID is a burden on all Americans, but these days it's disproportionately killing Deplorables and Republican sympathizers.

With respect to the demise of the nuclear family, institutional racism strives to tear apart black families. That's the whole point. The purpose is to ensure blacks remain comparatively poor and powerless.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:24 PM | Reply

Why did you destroy America snoofy?
Why???
#27 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

I'm not the one who got an abortion.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 03:24 PM | Reply

Talk of the nuclear family is always amusing when coming out of the mouth of today's deadbeat dads

You won't find a more ardent advocate for family and the "unborn" than the very asshats who abandoned their family and kids

Ain't that right, boaz

#30 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2021-12-05 03:52 PM | Reply

Anyone for an honest discussion?

How has the liberal agenda influenced society?

Do any liberals on this site see any negative influences on society caused by the liberal agenda?

I see plenty of good and bad by both liberals and conservatives.

However what problems do liberals see they are creating?

If this thread is just another GOP and Trump bashing series of posts by liberals, why even bother to pretend posting here has any intellectual value?

#31 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-12-05 07:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

"Wait, are you saying a nuclear family is better than the alternative."

Yes...but more importantly a mother and father (good ones..not just warm bodies) are preferable.

#32 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-12-05 07:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

How has the liberal agenda influenced society?

Civil rights movement
Women's liberation
Environmental protection
Worker protection
Freedom of Speech
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of the Press
etc.

I would argue that these values have led to a massive increase in life expectancy, wealth and equality.

I see the problems coming from regressive and reactionary forces fighting every step of the way towards progress.

Is progress via liberalism messy? Without a doubt. But that is mainly due to the opposition to progress creating disharmony.

Example: Gay marriage-driven by liberal belief in equality. Fought by regressive types. Now? It is a widely accepted norm-progress.

What so many criticize as "woke" culture, is just an effort by liberals to expand the umbrella of equality to even more marginalized people-ex. trans people. "Woke" culture is a revolution in people's thinking. Of course, it is messy, revolutions are messy. But progress is occurring.

The biggest problem our country faces, beyond the reactionary (i.e. fascist) element, is it's economic structure. Our economy is upside down-wealth is owned and controlled by a few. A true liberal economy would have a vibrant educational system, true safety net, universal healthcare, worker protections, retirement programs, etc. that benefited the poor and middle class and not the wealthy. Unfortunately, we do not have that.

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 07:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snoofy,

Everything else is less than ideal but has become more common.

Out of necessity society has learned to make the most of what you have to work with.

#34 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2021-12-05 07:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Do any liberals on this site see any negative influences on society caused by the liberal agenda?

Nope

Woke culture? Except for a few on the extremists, woke culture is about respect. Respect for the marginalized, respect for the powerless, respect for the downtrodden. Stop listening to regressives who lie about woke culture.

The Environment? We are in a life and death struggle that regressives refuse to acknowledge

Healthcare? For profit health care is evil and certainly not a liberal agenda item

Welfare? Funny how regressives blame the poor for their lot in life when every other developed nation can somehow have a functioning a safety net

Income Inequality? You really going to blame that on liberals?

Women's rights? Blaming women for the collapse of society is simple scapegoating. Women are entitled to every single opportunity in life that a man has. Period Full Stop (and that covers abortion, sexual liberation, education, etc.)

Here's a little truth for you.

We are never ever ever ever going back to the 1950's. It ain't gonna happen. The time that is held up as the perfect decade was ONLY so because after WW2, America was the sole great western power. Japan and Europe were rebuilding, the USSR was isolating, China was emerging from the middle ages. We had no true competition. and oh yeah, it kinda sucked to be a POC, or gay or a woman during that time.

The world will never be like that again, so stop thinking it can

#35 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 07:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The seeds of our problems were sown in 1981 when Reagan took office. Deregulation, cutting taxes, ballooning defense budget, union-busting, unbridled wall street, etc. All exploded during Reagan's time in office. Their concepts have destroyed the middle class. You know what destroyed the nuclear family? Income. You have to be a doctor or lawyer or investment banker to live on one income nowadays. You know why people aren't having a lot of children and marrying late? Cause they can't afford to. Not because people suddenly got decadent, not because people are selfish, not because of a single mother gets some income from the state, not because a few liberals try to educate you about institutional racism. Because a college graduate nowadays makes a pittance compared to his debt, let alone buy a house. It takes years to reach even a modicum of stability. And that is for a college graduate. god forbid you have to live as a HS graduate. So stop blaming women for wanting more out of life or the poor for their poverty. Stop blaming liberals for trying to provide opportunities or a safety net to those with nothing. Start blaming those that have transferred the wealth to the 1%. and I guarantee you those weren't liberals.

Here is another little truth bomb for you.

The American dream is dead. Upward mobility in America is dead

www.weforum.org

Truth Hurts

#36 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 07:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Posted by BillJohnson

LOL!

What a dope.

#37 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-12-05 07:44 PM | Reply

"Do any liberals on this site see any negative influences on society caused by the liberal agenda?"
I can't really answer that in such broad terms.
What's a liberal goal which has brought more negatives than positives to society, in your opinion?

"I see plenty of good and bad by both liberals and conservatives."
Sure. Neither party has a monopoly on jerks. But that's not really about the agenda... at least not for liberals. Conservatives absolutely do believe the poor have it too easy, and life should be harder for the poor. Which is just nastiness masquerading as morality.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It is just about personal responsibility."

I'll ask again:

What is it about "personal responsibility" that caused worker pay to start lagging behind worker productivity in the 70s?

Until you can answer that, you're not really making an argument. You're just smoke screening.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:26 PM | Reply

4.) Have you ever gone to prison?

Why not:
Do you live in a society that started sending far more people to prison in the 80s?
Where's the "personal responsibility" for the policy makers who did that?

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:28 PM | Reply

"Furthermore, none of these items is a particularly high hurdle to be successful."

Why do we put hurdles on the path to success?

Why do you accept that someone's failure to clear a hurdle is an acceptable explanation for a life of struggle?

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:34 PM | Reply

"Yes, but I blame an explosion of women in the workforce leading to an oversupply of labor along with mass illegal immigration to suppress wages."

More workers means more productivity.
How does that result in wage suppression?
And who suppressed wages, exactly?

You're saying workers, by showing up for work, suppressed their own wages?
Does the person who pays the wage bear any responsibility for setting the wage at that level?
Or is it all on the worker, since they accepted that wage voluntarily? Making it a personal choice and thus entirely on them.

Let's do outsourcing next, does the person who pays lower wages by moving jobs overseas have any personal responsibility for layoffs?

What was your previous username?
Have you ever worked?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Yes...but more importantly a mother and father (good ones..not just warm bodies) are preferable."

--------.
There's nothing that supports two same-sex parents are not as good as two opposite sex parents.
In truth, the two same sex parents are probably a hell of a lot richer, and as a result that kid will probably have a much better and broader range of choices available for them to make.

that's waht these "personal choice" freaks always ignore.
That people like Bill Gates have more and better choices to make, because their parents are rich.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:41 PM | Reply

Starting worker wages? Yes, but I blame an explosion of women in the workforce leading to an oversupply of labor along with mass illegal immigration to suppress wages. All of this without the effects of the wind down in the Vietnam war bring back a ton of working age males and a restructuring of the economy away from manufacturing. If we had the same female workforce participation rate as the 70's and no illegal immigration, starting wages would be much higher.
But, that is either here nor there as this is only on starting wages. If you take personal responsibility as I outlined above, you will quickly go up in income so it won't really matter longer term. For instance, if you have a kid as a teen, it will be much harder for you to dedicate yourself to work in your early years to move up the ladder. Same as a stretch in prison.

#42 | POSTED BY SKR1994

1. Way to blame women for wanting equality

2. Teen age pregnancy rates WAY DOWN

www.cdc.gov

Its almost like your theory doesnt hold water.

3. Why does America imprison so many people?

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 08:43 PM | Reply

"However what problems do liberals see they are creating?"

Trying to elect the first woman President after the first black President pushed conservatives past to the breaking point. Now, conservatism is dead, and from its fetid corpse has risen a megalomaniac's anti-woman anti-immigrant fascist Death Cult.

While the choice to drink the GOP Kool-Aid remains that of the Deplorables, this Democrat thinks the situation is akin to NATO expanding right to Russia's doorstep: Eventually a cornered beast will lash out.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:45 PM | Reply

That people like Bill Gates have more and better choices to make, because their parents are rich.

#45 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Now come on Snoofy, Bodie and D'Angelo from West Bal'more have the same opportunities as Biff and Buffy's kids in Greenwich CT

#49 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 08:46 PM | Reply

Innocent people? No. Maybe a small number slip through the cracks but our jails are filled with people that broke the law.

#48 | POSTED BY SKR1994

LOL

Now, THAT is some funny ---- right there.

Hey Bill Johnson, which has had a greater impact on destroying the nuclear family? Liberals or conservatives when fighting the war on drugs?

#50 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 08:49 PM | Reply

"our jails are filled with people that broke the law."

The law itself is a tool of injustice. Duh!

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:49 PM | Reply

"our jails are filled with people that broke the law."

Not in proportion to the people that break laws.
It's a whole lot darker and poorer in the jails, compared to the population that breaks the same laws and doesn't go to jail for it.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:51 PM | Reply

"Why pay a $20 for something that you can get for $10? Do you do that?"

So there's no personal responsibility there?

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:52 PM | Reply

"And who suppressed wages, exactly?"
"More workers for a finite number of jobs means wages go down. Again, this is econ 101."

More workers means more wages being paid which means more consumption which means more demand which means more jobs. This is also econ 101.

Maybe if you tell us your former username(s), this conversation will continue. Maybe.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:54 PM | Reply

"Yes, they do. They need customers to punish them for that behavior."

Moments earlier:

"No. Why pay a $20 for something that you can get for $10? Do you do that?"

LOL dude.

You're incoherent, full of knee-jerk responses, incapable of sustaining a narrative for even a single post.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 08:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The resident experts in jobs, the economy, and personal responsibility showing their street cred.

#57 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 08:58 PM | Reply

Jobs, working, being employed ... ..yes. I love to come here to learn from the expert here lecturing us all on it.

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 09:00 PM | Reply

I kind of enjoy the irony of a sock puppet account lecturing on personal responsibility

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 09:00 PM | Reply

Insurance is what we buy to avoid personal responsibility.

Welcome to the thread, Eberly. We await your insights.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 09:01 PM | Reply

"they just need to increase minimum wage to $500/hour"

Finally, a voice of reason in the thread!
I was thinking more like infinity plus one dollars an hour,
But I'll accept your skimpy offer. I don't want Boaz to have to accuse me of being unwilling to compromise....

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 09:07 PM | Reply

59

What's ironic about that?

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 09:07 PM | Reply

Funny how the least successful among us have all the answers - yet, were completely incapable of better their lot in life. Of course, it is 'the man' or 'the system' holding them back.
#62 | POSTED BY SKR1994

^
You just described Trump voters to a tee.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 09:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Funny how the least successful among us have all the answers - yet, were completely incapable of better their lot in life. Of course, it is 'the man' or 'the system' holding them back.

#62 | POSTED BY SKR1994

Funny how a person who is afraid of their posting history has the balls to criticize others. One wonders at the unethical actions that lead to any of your "success". Of course, it is just "woke" and "cancel culture" holding them accountable for their actions.

#66 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 09:09 PM | Reply

What's ironic about that?

#64 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You aren't that thick, are you?

#67 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-05 09:10 PM | Reply

I read the thread before I logged in.

Can't see snoofys garbage now.

Go Chiefs!

#68 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 09:11 PM | Reply

Twoothy, if he's a sock puppet then fine.

But otherwise, what give you and snoofy the permission to lecture anybody anymore than a new person.

Snoofy is an admitted lifelong loser. Has proved a thousand times here he hasn't the first clue how jobs or the economy works at all.

He's a total leech

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 09:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

There were some good points made above regarding parents and opportunities, BTW.

#70 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-05 09:21 PM | Reply

#61 - " or are you just trolling?"

Snoofy said it. What do you think?

#71 | Posted by jakester at 2021-12-05 09:49 PM | Reply

"Snoofy is an admitted lifelong loser."

NARRATOR: Meanwhile, at Eberly Acres: Home of Winners, it's just another day ending in Y:

"Honey, I forgot to log into the DR again and I had to read one of Snoofy's posts, would you make me a Scotch... better make it a double."

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 10:08 PM | Reply

#72

You don't have to worry about logging in since you're here 24/7 365.

#73 | Posted by willowby at 2021-12-05 10:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

As a thought experiment, perhaps once a society goes down that path it can't go back, how do single parent children even understand what a two parent household is like.

#FamilyGreaterThanGovernment

I would also amend my argument about income inequality, it all begins with parental inequality which begets income inequality.
#22 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Great points all through your comment. Re: incentives, I feel as though tech companies offer plenty of benefits to make the creation of a household not too burdensome compared to other industries.

SINK for now, but DIWK someday.

Threads like this one make me wish AndreaMackris or WhiteDevil were still active posters: other tech-aligned individuals, but I'm pretty sure they took the SINK &/or FI/RE life path. Sometimes OG retorters tend to chase off other users with unique experiences.

#74 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-05 10:47 PM | Reply

"how do single parent children even understand what a two parent household is like."

How do white people understand what racism is really like?

"Re: incentives, I feel as though tech companies offer plenty of benefits to make the creation of a household not too burdensome compared to other industries."

Yeah. They do. At Microsoft when I was there the blue badges had aromatherapy covered by their health insurance. Everyone should have those benefits... well maybe not aromatherapy but child care and good quality health care and at least two weeks of vacation and so on. In other modern countries, they get those benefits just for showing up. They don't have to just show up... at a tech company, like I've been doing most every time I can summon the effort to go to work.

Have you seen what it's like to be poor? Have you seen the spam folder of a poor person's email account lately?

It's pretty clear which party wants the bottom 80% of households to have it better, and which party wants the bottom 80% of households to have it worse.

Money is fungible. It doesn't care if you get it by renting apartments or inventing YouTube. But only one of those creates wealth. The other is parasitic. Capitalism's problem is that parasites can profit and there's nothing in Capitalism that says that's wrong. Conservatives' problem is they don't have enough morals or maybe it's just plain empathy to see why it's wrong to turn people into a conduit for private profit.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-05 11:26 PM | Reply

We have no shortage of population so we don't need to subsidize people for having kids beyond all the programs that already exist.

I disagree with this point. Unless the US experiences massive technological innovation and automation, the demographics here will not support positive economic growth as more of the elder generations retire from the workforce. The land within the US can support much more than a 350-400m population.

The fact they can even have a spam folder shows you how well off the 'poor' in the US live.

Truly a remarkable and 21st century phenomenon that the upper and lower economic classes have access to the same consumer technologies, such as smartphones. Never before in human history has it been like this.

#77 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-06 07:18 AM | Reply

YouTube is a vast destroyer of wealth on par with fidget spinners in providing mind numbing videos for people to watch rather than being productive. #76 | POSTED BY SKR1994

It depends on what you use YouTube for: it could be a time sink, or it can be used as a skill building tool. There are tons of high quality videos on YouTube to learn a new skill, from Excel pivot tables to backyard blacksmithing lol.

#78 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-06 07:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Yes, renting a house creates wealth for the lessor and the lessee."

LOL

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 08:21 AM | Reply

I AM YOUTUBE DESTROYER OF WORLDS

#81 | Posted by truthhurts at 2021-12-06 09:40 AM | Reply

"Yes, renting a house creates wealth for the lessor and the lessee."

That is a bit of a stretch, as Snoofy says LOL.

RE: I feel as though tech companies offer plenty of benefits to make the creation of a household not too burdensome compared to other industries.
~GoNoles92

Definitely true, the thing is high tech is 80% fluff people (marketing, UX, support), and 20% hard core. Also all the FAANG has one cash cow (advertising), everyone else is just messing around IMHO. Netflix has some of the best system designers, and the discipline to listen to them, on the planet.

Look at the top youtubers by sub count...nothing productive there. The internet was supposed to bring education to the masses, instead it just promotes thousands of pimple pop videos.

You get out of YouTube what you put into it. The algos pretty much feed you what you click.

So if you click on crap you get more crap. Click on 3Blue1Brown (4Msubs), if you get through one video its a win, then watch the education videos start appearing.
www.youtube.com

#82 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-06 10:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

What culture? Whose culture? Southern culture on the skids? Pf that.

#83 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-12-06 11:55 AM | Reply

"Southern culture on the skids?"

www.scots.com

#84 | Posted by Angrydad at 2021-12-06 02:22 PM | Reply

We are in the midst of a "values" renaissance currently. Between the explosive growth of awareness among regular Americans in part brought on by #metoo and the BLM movement our collective level of consciousness as to the realities faced by women and non-whites in our society is at an all time high. This is a great thing. It is no wonder racists, the misogynists, the bible thumpers and the right wingers all think this somehow is a form of decline. What our culture has experienced over the last several years has been revolutionary, but like most revolutions it will not be fully recognized nor appreciated for a long time to come.

#85 | Posted by moder8 at 2021-12-06 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

85

I have a hard time arguing with any of that.

#86 | Posted by eberly at 2021-12-06 03:36 PM | Reply

The decline is in our stable form of governance. The peaceful transfer of power is not a sure thing anymore. Our economy is increasingly geared to enrich the already loaded; To maintain the perks and privileges of the elites.

Our government is increasingly seen as unfair to anyone not paying them for policy. Oligarchs get whatever they need from policymakers and the Fed. Taxpayers bail out billion dollar companies. The "free market" is not really free at all. Banks get special treatment that ordinary individuals never see. Rich individuals get special treatment and policies geared to their needs.

This is cultural decline. Our robust economic competition for market share is now limited to a few massive corporations dividing up the spoils like a Cartel, which in fact they are.

Government stopped enforcing antitrust laws in ernest starting with the Reagan administration.

It's been all downhill ever since.

Oh, and our manufacturing base is essentially gone. We farmed it out to China and Indonesia.

More decline. This is not remotely in dispute.

#87 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-06 04:19 PM | Reply

"The decline is in our stable form of governance. The peaceful transfer of power is not a sure thing anymore."

If the pilot wants to fly the plane into the WTC, there's very little that can be done to stop it.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 04:21 PM | Reply

"Oh, and our manufacturing base is essentially gone. We farmed it out to China and Indonesia."

Our high tech manufacturing base still leads the world.
But we don't have nearly as many high tech manufacturing jobs as we once did regular manufacturing jobs.
The revenue gets replaced, but the jobs don't.

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 04:27 PM | Reply

Just 18% of US households are 'nuclear families' with a married couple and children, down from 40% since 1970s

In the 1970s it was still possible to work a normal job and own a home in a good neighborhood with a spouse staying home to raise your kids. Try doing that in 2021.

#90 | Posted by JOE at 2021-12-06 04:46 PM | Reply

Boaz would like to legislate us back to the 50's, when women stayed home and kept house, but had no power. And white men controlled everything.

Oh, wait a minute. White men still control everything.

#91 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2021-12-06 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Christians make movie ridiculing Hanukkah"
#93 | POSTED BY SKR1994

The resident anti-Semite has reared his head, once again.

Take heed, DR.

#94 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-12-06 08:15 PM | Reply

are attacked on a daily basis without a peep from your side.
#95 | POSTED BY SKR1994

Oh, please!

Do tell! Which side do you interpret that I'm on?

This should be grand!

#96 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-12-06 08:28 PM | Reply

That does not mean that you are a purple haired female millennial with unshaved armpits, but it does describe your mental state as being one and the same.
#97 | POSTED BY SKR1994

Fascinating!

Unimaginably incorrect, but fascinating nonetheless!

Appreciate the candor, now on to the case in point:

"0.001% of 'white men' that, more often than not, are Jewish so under the Democrat identity politics game may or may not be 'white'."

Where does an anti-Semite come up with such a statistic?

#98 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-12-06 09:11 PM | Reply

In what sense?

The general sense.

By renting a house, the owner is paying for all of the upkeep and services required to maintain a property so the renter does not need to do so. On top of this, they assume 100% of the risk on property prices and loses flexibility as far as job relocation, etc is concerned.

Not always, if you rent a home, you more than likely will need to pay for water/electricity/heat/landscaping.

The issue specifically is that the Renter is always paying current market rates for housing, always. As a homeowner over time, my fixed mortgage is less than my property tax.

Stack on top of that the costs associated with buying a new home (inspection fees, loan fees, title fees, etc) and there is a huge productivity benefit for the renters as they can move to where employees are needed with minimal transaction costs.

If the renter rents for >9yrs they are better off buying.

This is no different than providing a rental car service - there is a huge productivity boost by having this service available vs. having to buy a car in each city you visit, use public transportation, or take taxis/ride-sharing.

Again for short-term, then yes its not a bad deal, long term renting is a loss.

Someone said this to me and I have never found it to be false, "You will never find a rich renter."

they assume 100% of the risk on property prices

Yes they also get 100% of the profit, while you pay off their mortgage; after ~9yrs of being a landlord, even the rent becomes profitable.

I will close with this, the more renters in a community, the poorer the community, both financially, and spiritually. Because renters have no skin in the game.

#100 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-06 09:37 PM | Reply

If you want tensions to ease in this country, it is not appropriate for the liberals to start fomenting religious hatred on top of everything else.

As a Liberal myself, I do find this an interesting conundrum, I don't understand the hatred for fellow man and his interests; "liberals" for all the talk about diversity and inclusiveness really have messed this one up. My guess is its because these people are a different "tribe".

#LoveNotHate

#101 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-06 09:43 PM | Reply

I don't understand the hatred for fellow man and his interests

#101 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Nazis are not my fellow man. Nazis are the enemy. Now as in 1941.

#102 | Posted by Zed at 2021-12-06 09:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"That does not mean that you are a purple haired female millennial with unshaved armpits"

^
Is this attack on women and Millennials okay because it doesn't say "atheist?"

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 09:53 PM | Reply

My guess is because these "Christian Nationalists" are obvious hypocrites, the same kind of religious hypocrites for which Jesus saved his worst castigations.

Not to be confused with castrations, which would be a better result for them than the one he promised.

#104 | Posted by Corky at 2021-12-06 09:54 PM | Reply

It's cheaper to own than it is to rent in many places.

Which isn't really a surprise, the landlord is likely paying a mortgage too, so to make leasing profitable they'd have to charge more...

The aggregate economic effect is to funnel money upwards. It creates an aristocracy of wealth. It's downright Un-American.

Real estate prices have increased so much that the income needed to get a mortgage has far outstripped wages for more and more Americans.
So they're stuck renting, paying more but never building equity and having the hedge against inflation that a 30-year note represents.

Just another part of the American Dream which has no chance of ever coming true for an ever growing percentage of Americans.

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 10:09 PM | Reply

"I did not make any judgement call about these characteristics being good or bad"

You linked it to anti-Semitism.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 10:10 PM | Reply

'Pretty much ever landlord that I know would rather have a stable tenant that pays their bills on time than a 'market rate' rental with high turnover."

That doesn't change what's being paid.

That's no different than a company wanting a hire to stick around long term. Because the overhead of replacing them is just that, overhead.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 10:12 PM | Reply

I love this sales pitch that renting is better than owning because it gives renters more freedom.

Just say "freedom" and someone in America will cheer for it.

If it's so great, are you a renter then?

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-06 10:14 PM | Reply

Religion is often a curse. Aztec Sun Worship and Human Sacrifices. The Spanish Inquisition. Jim Jones. The Hindu Caste system. Freedom FROM Religion is far more important than freedom Of Religion.

The Founders certainly thought so. They were mostly Diests,one of the least offensive of faiths.

Certainty about any religious issues is delusional. The people professing it are Charlatans.

Humanity needs to grow up and forget about the sky daddies.

#112 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-06 10:19 PM | Reply

In CA, homeownership rate is 55%, in Alabama it is in the high 60's. The rental market allows people to move to CA to take the tech jobs, etc as if the only choice was homeownership, it would be too costly to take the job ~ SKR1994

It allows a transition, meaning 6m while you find a place to buy, as I stated if you rent for a period >~9 then its not profitable. Again I go back to my thesis, married in SiliconValley is need to afford a home.

People leave SiliconValley,they don't come back.

Real estate prices have increased so much that the income needed to get a mortgage has far outstripped wages for more and more Americans.
~Snoofy

Hence the need for dual incomes as I implied, and the problem with single parent households. I agree in a single income household its nearly impossible but its what the culture is pushing for.

Just another part of the American Dream which has no chance of ever coming true for an ever growing percentage of Americans.

Only because they set their sights on being alone, I call this #StupidFreedom.

#TwoIsBetterThanOne

#113 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-06 10:20 PM | Reply

I love this sales pitch that renting is better than owning because it gives renters more freedom.

It is a legitimate point, within a certain time-frame.

If you can't commit to ~9yrs (breakeven) then it is a financially valid option.

#114 | Posted by oneironaut at 2021-12-06 10:22 PM | Reply

# 113. Just admit it dude, life is prohibitively expensive for single people. This is a negative development. Life is a struggle if your income is below a rather high figure. I call this a rather obvious sign of cultural decline.

Don't you? I mean it wasn't always this tough and it really doesn't have to be. It's policies that explicitly favor the well off that are driving this trend. Low income people have NO representation in Government. This is also relatively new. You just don't want to see what's right in front of you. My guess is you are benefiting from the decline personally so you don't want to see it happening. Are you a landlord? A predatory lender perhaps?

#116 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-06 10:30 PM | Reply

Only because they set their sights on being alone, I call this #StupidFreedom.
#TwoIsBetterThanOne
#113 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Really? All of them choose to be alone?

#119 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2021-12-06 11:06 PM | Reply

#118 | POSTED BY SKR1994

This coming from an incel Cuccccck living in his mom's basement. It is to laugh. Your struggle is arranging 10 minutes to clear your bowels, loser.

#120 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2021-12-07 12:07 AM | Reply

"The average person now has a life way, way better than 50 years ago. You have more clothes, starvation is not a problem, there are countless protections and government handouts as far as the eye can see."

America isn't an average country.

Homelessness and hunger are on the rise here.

#122 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:20 AM | Reply

"But, if you bought a home between 2002 and 2008, you probably lost your ass."

This is so wrong as to actually make me laugh out loud. dqydj.com

If you bought a home between 2002 and 2008, you have had a place to live rent-free for 10 to 20 years, and building you equity this entire time. The only way you'd have "lost your ass" is if you were flipping houses or couldn't figure out how to turn the nut every month.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:25 AM | Reply

But, if you bought a home between 2002 and 2008, you probably lost your ass.
was it wise to buy and hold that home in Detroit?
#115 | POSTED BY SKR1994 AT 2021-12-06 10:23 PM

You have never know real struggle. You have know the 'nerfed struggle' of modern life.
#118 | POSTED BY SKR1994

So, if you lost your house and your job when the bubble popped, that's not a real struggle, huh?
Did the 22 veterans who killed themselves today do it with Nerf guns?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:29 AM | Reply

"People lost their ass as home prices dipped below the purchase price and they were forced to sell."

Why would I be forced to sell when my home value goes down?

Literally makes no sense at all.

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:38 AM | Reply

"You are a veteran"

Certainly not.
Is their struggle real, or do they just need you to remind them how good they have it?

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:39 AM | Reply

"to make your 'struggle' seem less nerfed?"

My struggle? LOL

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:45 AM | Reply

"Take your typical CA home at $400k. You are spending $5k/year alone on property taxes before they start the special assessments. Tack on sewer, recycling, green collection, etc and you have another $2400 out the door. If we assume a 1% 'upkeep', you are at $11.4k for your rent free home before you start to include all the free labor you must put in for landscaping, etc....and we didn't even touch the $12K that you will pay in interest to carry the mortgage before you pay down a single penny in the outstanding balance."

^
Real struggle, or nah?

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:46 AM | Reply

As I clearly outlined above:
1.) Lost job
2.) Divorce
3.) Medical bills

So what?
You're screwed if those things happen to you when you're a renter too.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:59 AM | Reply

1.) Lost job
2.) Divorce
3.) Medical bills

Blame the person in the mirror, right?

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:00 AM | Reply

"my life is blessed...just like anyone else lucky enough to be born in the US"

Breonna Taylor. So blessed.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:01 AM | Reply

"As you never owned a home, you think everyone is a real estate speculator."

LOL. It wasn't the real estate speculation that brought them down. It was speculating that they'd still have a job, a spouse, and their health.

For which they can blame the person in the mirror.

And since it's their fault, why should you or I care?

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:03 AM | Reply

Time and chance happen to us all. Reflect, and f**k off. You're an idiot. Struggle is not a competition between time periods. Historical struggles are over and done with.Current struggles have different parameters and reasons for happening. You are obviously not what anyone would call "deep thinker",that's for sure.

Nimrod.

#137 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 01:05 AM | Reply

" If your life is miserable, you need to blame the person in the mirror."

Does blame get you a better life?
That hardly seems like good avdice.
Just blaming people for your problems -- even yourself -- doesn't change anything.
It isn't a path forward. Blame never is.

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:10 AM | Reply

"Disposing of a house costs money and this would need to be accomplished."

So does buying a house. This is a problem that made its own gravy.

But like you said, it's the homebuyer's fault. Why should I care? Why do you?

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:11 AM | Reply

"Watching your downpayment disappear is much different than watching your rental deposit."

Watching your equity disappear is the same economic story as watching the money you pay in rent every month disappear.

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:13 AM | Reply

"It is clear you are past your working prime and have nothing to show for it."

He's got an edgy attitude that might get him some snaps at the poetry slam.

You don't have that.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:13 AM | Reply

"Your rent does not 'disappear' because the home market change."

Doesn't matter.
It's still gone.
Your rent disappears because your landlord cashes your rent check.

In the example you gave, someone made bad choices. Is there an injustice there, or just a nerfed struggle?

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:18 AM | Reply

"Your rent was exchanged for a roof over your head"
So was your downpayment.

"it did not disappear."
The roof didn't disappear. Your money on the other hand certainly departed your bank account. In both cases, it's not your roof. You just borrowed it for a while.

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:22 AM | Reply

One thing I've noticed about the Drudge Retort over the decades:

Nothing screams "Successful Person" like telling Snoofy he needs to get his act together!

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:23 AM | Reply

Dude, I've known people like you my entire effing life. Hell, half my family has internalized your sick "values". You know the price of everything and the Value of Nothing.

Like a man who owns a primeval forest and sees nothing but board feet of lumber. Or a biologist who kills the last of a vanishing species to put the corpse in a museum.

Sick.

#150 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 01:23 AM | Reply

"No, it is exchanged for a place to stay"

As was your down-payment!

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:29 AM | Reply

"If you don't like the arrangement, you can sleep on the street."

Freedom!

Oh, and even better, the streets are Nerfed.

It's a wonder there aren't tens of millions of homeless in America!

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:30 AM | Reply

"With all the government safety nets now, you will never struggle like you would have 50 years ago."

The bottom 80% of households have seen their incomes stagnate over the past 50 years. That's why we have more safety nets now. Because we need them. Becauae in this economy, far more Americans are at risk of falling.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:34 AM | Reply

"you could at least say your 'rental deposit' because you are retaining that value until you move out."

You don't get your deposit back either, when you have to break your lease.

But so what? For the person who lost their home, there are safety nets. So why are you crying for them? Why are you trying to convince me they have it worse than someone who rented? And, even if they do have it better, why should I care, when they are to blame?

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:39 AM | Reply

"Way higher risk of failing in the past."

By what metric(s) did you arrive at this conclusion?

#161 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:43 AM | Reply

"As for income stagnation, I already provided the solutions above. Very easy to make it to middle class in the US."

Your "solution" doesn't change the trajectory of the economy.

But it does allow you to say people in the bottom 80% failed, rather than see how the economy failed the people in the bottom 80%.

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:46 AM | Reply

"In the past, it was living on the street and facing starvation."

In the past, there weren't 50,000 homeless people in LA.

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 01:48 AM | Reply

Different choices? Maybe some of them, sure.

How about you? Have All Your Dreams Come True?

My values are not particularly monetary in nature. Esthetic and Naturalist more like it.

Cities are great for concerts and cultural events. Open space and wild ecosystems interest me more deeply. Money is a Means not an End.

My family see Money as an End.

I never have.

How about You?

Nimrod.

#165 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 02:11 AM | Reply

# 164. Is that you, Ira Goldberg?

New sock puppet I see. Good for you. Keep fighting the good fight for Cash and Country.

Nimrod.

#166 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 02:15 AM | Reply

Would yours? What does that even mean? My parents are not me. They don't pick my values. Autonomy of intention is not big with you.I see a conformist of little imagination. A go along kind of guy. Nobody's idea of a Sage that's for sure. Have you ever suffered? Do you have empathy for life not like your own?

Can you imagine a different way of living, unlike our consumer based society?

I don't think so.

Nimrod.

#168 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 02:26 AM | Reply

You choose nothing. Nobody chooses the economic system except by default. Or through War and Imperialism. Do you love Israel? I'll bet you a million dollars that you are a Zionist Pig.

Not necessarily Jewish, mind you. You identify with the struggle, not necessarily Judaism itself.

Let's break the suspense.

Are you?

#170 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 02:58 AM | Reply

The two are not mutually exclusive. Are you a Big Israel Booster? It's a simple question. I haven't seen a straight Answer.

#172 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 03:13 AM | Reply

Cop Out. Slink away loser. You can't admit it, can you? What other countries did you do business in? What was the nature of these dealings?

You won't answer. Too chickens**t.

Nimrod.

#174 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 03:27 AM | Reply

What countries? Specifically. What type of business? Chapter and verse. You're all show and no go. Details, Man. Like I worked in ___ doing ___.

#176 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 03:38 AM | Reply

Pushing "Settlements", in the West Bank perhaps.

Nah, you're too lightweight for that. But you would, if you could?

Money is fungible, it doesn't know where it came from. It's anonymous. There's no guilt if people don't know? Right.

#178 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 03:46 AM | Reply

"By what metric(s) did you arrive at this conclusion?"

"By every conceivable metric."

Hahahaha!

#180 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 08:32 AM | Reply

"I am widely seen in my industry as a thought leader."

Are you here to sell your book?
Your book about... checks post history... why Snoofy and EffetePoser trigger you?

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 08:38 AM | Reply

Money is fungible

This has been posted twice in this thread and I can't help but think about how non-fungible tokens are only a HTML link to a JPEG wrapped in JSON.

#182 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2021-12-07 09:10 AM | Reply

- I don't particularly care about the other countries.

Good little Randian.

#183 | Posted by Corky at 2021-12-07 11:36 AM | Reply

He doesn't really care about this one apparently. Just a self important selfish troll. Trying too hard to be impressive and failing mightily at it. He gets personally offensive and abusive in ways that point to a very bad character. Not a nice fellow.

#184 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2021-12-07 12:01 PM | Reply

I don't particularly care about the other countries... I just invent new convenience stores for them.

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2021-12-07 12:06 PM | Reply

Cultural decline as evidenced by a preoccupation with weaponry, conspiratorial cults, and fascist messiahs?

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2021-12-05 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

| Newsworthy 6

The Hillbilly Renaissance is a real thing. The ignorant, the violent, the socially inept, the paranoid, the emotionally and intellectually superficial have always been with us. It's just that now cynical people have realized they can tap into all of that low-rent craziness and rake in cash and power.

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2021-12-05 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

Cannot flag these as newsworthy enough.

#186 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-12-08 08:41 AM | Reply

Why the U.S. is in cultural decline

Just 18% of US households are 'nuclear families' with a married couple and children,

So O'Bozo votes for a "man" who has five kids with three different women, one of which was an "escort" and here illegally after lying on her visa application while he pals around with a well known pedophile and has multiple rape and sexual assault allegations some with children.

The champion of "family values" continually votes for the party that is chock full of child predators, sex traffickers, people who cheat on their spouses and commit voter fraud.

#187 | Posted by Nixon at 2021-12-08 08:51 AM | Reply

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