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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, January 11, 2022

The following things can be true at the same time. First, the attack on the Capitol on January 6 was a dark moment in American history and one in which the former president bears responsibility. Second, the attack on the Capitol will not be a defining issue in the upcoming 2022 midterm campaign.

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More from the op-ed...

...The 2022 midterms will be a referendum on the current president, not the former one. This is something on which Democratic and Republican strategists I've spoken with agree. At the same time, Republicans from swing states or districts who spend their time trying to re-litigate the 2020 election or defend those who attacked the Capitol are putting themselves in political peril.

For as horrible as the events of January 6 were, the fact that our constitutional guardrails held is a remarkable and impressive accomplishment. The system bent, but it did not break. But it is this very fact that makes it harder for Democrats to argue that these guardrails are faulty and fragile.

Adding to this challenge for Democrats is the fact that many of the voters Biden appealed to in 2020, don't see this same risk to democracy as he and many Democrats do. Earlier this year, I wrote about two focus groups of white swing voters. One group was more conservative-leaning (all had voted for Trump but were defined as not particularly enthusiastic about him, i.e., these are not Trump superfans ). The other group included those who voted for Biden in 2020 after voting for Trump in 2016. In other words, these are the kinds of voters that would be open to more nuanced arguments about issues. They aren't simply knee-jerk Trump or Biden voters....


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-11 10:42 AM | Reply

It will be huge. This was the single biggest event of any kind for all time everywhere. It's been over a year and I'm still not over it.

#2 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-11 02:46 PM | Reply

@#2

If you take the time to read the article, other views are presented, with substantiating information.


It's a worthwhile read, imo. :)

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-11 02:50 PM | Reply

It will be huge. This was the single biggest event of any kind for all time everywhere. It's been over a year and I'm still not over it.

#2 | Posted by visitor_

Get used to it. You're going spend the rest of your life trying to convince people that the time your cult attempted a coup to end democracy was no big deal.

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 03:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Covid won't get better until half the country stop believing it's a hoax and decides to get vaccinated. A completely fabricated reality has taken over, and there's no real way any Democrats can overcome that without controlling conservative media. This pandemic could be over, but the GQP has decided to keep it going...you can't reason with bat-guano insanity. I don't know how we get past this.

The economy is in great shape. How we keep reading articles about how bad it is is beyond me. Unemployment is at a 50 year low, the market is strong, and we are in the middle of a pandemic. Reading about the economy is constantly like going outside on a beautiful, 74 degree clear day, and hearing how terrible and miserable the weather is. Sure, there is a bit of inflation, and supply chain issues are inconvenient, but we have mostly weathered the storm...it could've and should've been much worse.

#5 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-11 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It was an emotional zero seconds has they read off the names of the zero police that had fallen on that day.

#6 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-11 03:23 PM | Reply

It was an emotional zero seconds has they read off the names of the zero police that had fallen on that day.

The emotional impact of a feces-spreading mob of vandals chanting, "Hang Mike Pence!" on sociopaths like you is of little concern to the rest of us. You may not understand it, but no rational humans are fooled that you experience emotions in the way normal human beings do. Sociopaths should steer away from such terms.

#7 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-11 03:37 PM | Reply

for the mindless handle pullers on each side, none. The undecided, usually thinking voters most likely will shy away from any candidate who tries to exploit the event and hyperbolizes over its importance or claims the US government was almost brought down in a successful coup. Smart people will know better and they do not like being lied to.

#8 | Posted by jakester at 2022-01-11 03:39 PM | Reply

A majority of Americans have moved past 1/6. People are much more concerned about the economy, inflation and Covid than 1/6.

#9 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 03:42 PM | Reply

I'll move past it when then FBI's participation is made known.

#10 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-11 03:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It was an emotional zero seconds has they read off the names of the zero police that had fallen on that day.

#6 | Posted by visitor_

Violent coup attempts to replace democracy with fascism aren't bad unless police die.

#11 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 03:44 PM | Reply

I have moved past 1/6.
#9 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You mean that thing you never took seriously in the first place?

Thanks for sharing.

#12 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-11 03:45 PM | Reply

I'll move past it when then FBI's participation is made known.

#10 | Posted by visitor_

You mean ANTIFA? Why don't you hold a klan meeting and agree on which lie to push as a group instead of all the random competing conspiracy theories?

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 03:45 PM | Reply

Smart people will know better and they do not like being lied to.

#8 | Posted by jakester

For example, smart people know you're a liar when you say both sides are the problem.

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 03:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Smart people know he's a liar when he claims not to be Goatman.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-11 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'll move past it when then FBI's participation is made known.
#10 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Why would it matter? Any FBI involvement would be at the discretion of President Donald J. TRUMP

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-11 03:48 PM | Reply

You mean the FBI in black face pretending to be BLM?

Or the BLM members in white face pretending to be Antifa?

Or the Antifa members in stupid face pretending to be Proud Boys?

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-11 03:57 PM | Reply

This just in:

The coup was orchestrated by three Spidermans pointing at one another.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-11 04:20 PM | Reply

#12 Have you seen the polling on the issue?

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 04:24 PM | Reply

We've all seen the polling that shows the overwhelming majority of Republicans think Trump won, and 1/6 was on the side of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

Sadly, the patriots and martyrs were not able to gang rape AOC, behead Pelosi and Pence, and prevent a Socialist Takeover of our country.

#TakeOurCountryBack

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-11 04:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#12 Have you seen the polling on the issue?

#19 | Posted by BellRinger

Is that how the legal system works?

Take a poll to see if a fascist coup attempt should be prosecuted or not?

#21 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 04:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

No one takes as much polling as BellRinger.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-11 04:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

#21 The subject of this page is what role 1/6 will have on the midterms in the minds of the voters. If polling is any indication, not much.

#23 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 04:45 PM | Reply

Well, if ------- and a dozen or so republican congressmen and women are thrown in jail by next November, perhaps it may have an impact.

Just sayin'

Truth Hurts Donut

#24 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-11 04:51 PM | Reply

I would imagine 1/6 will play a very small part as voters tend to vote with their pocket. Not looking good for Dems. I hope that it is the moderates in each party that win since I align more with moderates on both sides, but I am afraid of the complete polarization of the parties. Such hard party-line politics is not good and the GOP is not willing to negotiate at all right now.

This is the exact thing I argued a lot with Jeff about before he left. He kept saying he expects "the obstructionist party to act obstructionist" and I dont think anything gets done that way. We need both parties to negotiate in good faith to get something done. Americans are suffering due to the obstructionism and deadlock.

#25 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2022-01-11 04:52 PM | Reply

I hope that it is the moderates in each party that win since I align more with moderates on both sides...

#25 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

I've seen a lot of similar comments, and it troubles me. Where do you believe the center exists? IMO, the Democrats are a mostly center-right party (which pretty much makes them the moderates). Almost ALL Republicans now skew to the extreme right.

What liberal/progressive issues are too extreme for you consideration?

#26 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2022-01-11 04:58 PM | Reply

#26 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

Without typing up a paragraph it is simpler to say I align more with Hilary Clinton that I do AOC. Most of the GOP is too far right for me and the Dems seem to be going hard left with all the new progressives. I tend to usually agree with my governor Brad Little here in Idaho and he is getting flack from the local Repubs for being too moderate. I dont like extremes. I dont want to be like Oprah and give a bunch of ---- away, but I also understand the need for social safety nets.

#27 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2022-01-11 05:05 PM | Reply

#21 The subject of this page is what role 1/6 will have on the midterms in the minds of the voters. If polling is any indication, not much.

#23 | Posted by BellRinger

Just like your cult leader - if a poll is good for you, it's gospel. If it's not good for you, then you just talk about how wrong polling has gotten everything.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 05:19 PM | Reply

#28 WTF are you even talking about?

This page asks to what extent 1/6 will factor in the minds of the voters in '22. Based on what I've seen 1/6 won't be much of a factor.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 05:25 PM | Reply

Here's a hint: The 9/11 and Pearl Harbor comparisons aren't helping keep this issue alive. When people see that kind of crap they roll their eyes and move on.

#30 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 05:26 PM | Reply

-Based on what I've seen 1/6 won't be much of a factor.

I think that's becoming more of a reality to them. They'll pretend they don't see that but they do.

It's right in front of their faces.

1/6 anniversary came and went like practically another day. You can see the frustration at that.

And it's democrats not giving a ---- that is the source of the personal attacks.

As if it's your your fault.

Cue "Yourcult" in 3...2....1

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-11 05:28 PM | Reply

#28 WTF are you even talking about?

This page asks to what extent 1/6 will factor in the minds of the voters in '22. Based on what I've seen 1/6 won't be much of a factor.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger

"During his speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Dallas, Texas, over the weekend, Trump let loose with this line explaining his strategy on polling:

"If it's bad, I say it's fake. If it's good, I say that's the most accurate poll ever.""

#32 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 05:29 PM | Reply

Here's a hint: The 9/11 and Pearl Harbor comparisons aren't helping keep this issue alive. When people see that kind of crap they roll their eyes and move on.

#30 | Posted by BellRinger

You're right. The Oklahoma city bombing is more accurate since it was an attack on america BY AMERICANS.

If the oklahoma city bombing was an attempt to end democracy and install fascism, of course.

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 05:30 PM | Reply

#32 Trump is an idiot. We know this already. You aren't making a point. Bottom line, much of the public cares far less about 1/6 than you and much of corporate media. As a result, 1/6 is likely to have little role in 2022 voting. Eberly nailed it with #31

#34 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 05:32 PM | Reply

They'll pretend they don't see that but they do.

#31 | Posted by eberly

Sounds like you're talking about people who watch 1/6 footage and say it wasn't a coup attempt.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 05:50 PM | Reply

#32 Trump is an idiot. We know this already.

#34 | Posted by BellRinger

So how come you fight everyday to put him back in power?

Do you and putin share the same goal of america's destruction, so you both decided the best way to achieve that is by supporting a fascist incompetent moron?

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 05:52 PM | Reply

It won't make the right difference, which is that the 2017 insurrection supported by Dems was squashed quickly because they hadn't fully shackled the authorities. In only a few short years, Dems made it so hard for authorities to do anything so they had to stand by while the rioters took control.

Anything else they concentrate on is just more hypocrisy and doesn't help to stop mob actions when it happens again.

#37 | Posted by humtake at 2022-01-11 07:16 PM | Reply

#37 | Posted by humtake

Who was your acid dealing in 2017? That must have been strong ----.

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-11 07:53 PM | Reply

#27

I didn't ask who you align with.

#39 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2022-01-11 10:22 PM | Reply

#27

I didn't ask who you align with.

#39 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT AT 2022-01-11 10:22 PM

I think it was just a quick simple way for her to explain where she falls politically without spelling it all out.

#40 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-11 10:28 PM | Reply

Just sayin', aint nobody got charged with sedition or treason or insurrerectinin'. In DC courts. The big charges are rioting and property damage. Nobody was armed.

#41 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-01-11 11:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

1/6 wasn't a national tragedy like 9/11 or Pear Harbor, obviously. But it was pretty black mark on our country and orchestrated by a guy who still will seek office in 2024. Beyond the surge into the Capitol, it's Trump's actions (based on a fairytale) and lack of actions that should be the focus.

1/6 was indeed a global embarrassment of the United States, again courtesy of the former President who still will seek office in 2024.

How anyone can support him for that position - it's beyond belief.

#42 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-12 10:06 AM | Reply

Just sayin', aint nobody got charged with sedition or treason or insurrerectinin'. In DC courts. The big charges are rioting and property damage. Nobody was armed.

Again, focus on what Trump did, not the people who stormed the Capitol.

They are incidental in the big picture.

#43 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-12 10:08 AM | Reply

"How anyone can support him for that position - it's beyond belief."

Believe in fascism.

Republicans do. You should too.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 10:08 AM | Reply

As a result, 1/6 is likely to have little role in 2022 voting.

I think that's right.

But it should play a HUGE role in 2024 if Trump runs.

#45 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-12 10:09 AM | Reply

From a political strategy point of view, i think 1/6 can be weaponized in a targeted way toward certain suburbanites whose sensibilities are offended by the sight of any violence/mob type activity. Think the same sort of ads by sheriffs, AGs, etc promising to be "tough on crime" and showing images of violence that scare these people into voting a certain way, but formatted against Republicans who supported or didn't speak out against the insurrectionists. It won't work everywhere, but i bet in certain places on a micro level it will.

#46 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-12 10:29 AM | Reply

#46 I'm reminded of the post 9/11 term "Security Moms" that was used to describe what we now call "Karens."

Good luck getting them to vote for the party that doesn't want to protect their little white angels from CRT in public schools!

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 10:38 AM | Reply

#46 It will work in areas like San Fransisco, but that's about it. I'd add in Portland but the left-wing riots are probably a bigger issue for the people of Portland because they personally felt the impact.

#48 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-12 10:41 AM | Reply

#48 I think you underestimate the effect that repeated, targeted images of violence have on people whose lifestyle revolves around personal safety and comfort. I think it would do well in certain suburbs surrounding blue cities in purple states.

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-12 10:43 AM | Reply

#49 Perhaps. I see your point and in certain pockets what you are suggesting might have some impact.

Here's one thing to keep in mind with that strategy though - it works both ways. A judge ordered the release of some video footage that shows a bunch of capitol rioters entering the building in a somewhat orderly fashion and then just walking around. Imagine playing that video and then in the background listening to Kamala Harris and others claim 1/6 was worse than 9/11 with a cut to the 2nd plane crashing into the tower as she's saying it.

#50 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-12 10:52 AM | Reply

A judge ordered the release of some video footage that shows a bunch of capitol rioters entering the building in a somewhat orderly fashion and then just walking around.

What even does that mean? It was released to show how nice they were being?? LOL

ANYBODY being orderly was trumped (no pun intended) by the horrible actions of their cohorts.

#51 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-12 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#50 Fair enough, but i do think your example of footage of people being orderly is a bit more cerebral and boring, compared to footage of violence which has a more immediate and visceral impact.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-12 11:20 AM | Reply

"A judge ordered the release of some video footage that shows a bunch of capitol rioters entering the building in a somewhat orderly fashion and then just walking around."

That's the one people like you use to say it was just tourists.

#53 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 11:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nobody was armed.

#41 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-01-11 11:48 PM | Reply | Flag:
| Newsworthy 1

-------.

www.factcheck.org

But a wide array of lethal weapons " including a firearm " were found on protesters at the Capitol.

The Metropolitan Police Department reported its officers, while trying to clear the Capitol grounds about 7 p.m. on Jan. 6, arrested and charged a 33-year-old Maryland man with the federal offense of carrying a fully loaded 9mm semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds.

Clarification, June 25: In response to a reader's inquiry, we updated this story to clarify that Christopher Michael Alberts was arrested by Metropolitan Police on Jan. 6 for carrying a pistol without a license, possession of a firearm on Capital grounds and other charges. He was formally charged in U.S. District Court on Jan. 7.

Social media posts claiming that protesters were not armed also do not address the issue of other weapons used by assailants at the Capitol " or the seizure of guns from supporters before and after the riot.

In legal terms, "armed" means being in possession of any weapon, not just a firearm. While there are laws that specifically address firearms, weapons can include virtually any object used to threaten or cause harm.

According to a database compiled by NPR, of the people charged with violent offenses, including assault on police officers, 15 were armed with deadly or dangerous weapons during the riot at the Capitol.

Eight others facing civil disorder or property destruction charges also were charged with possessing weapons, according to the database.

Those weapons included baseball bats, chemical sprays, a captured police officer's riot shield, a crowbar, fire extinguishers and a metal flagpole.

#54 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-01-12 12:14 PM | Reply

The big charges are rioting and property damage. Nobody was armed.
#41 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Why are you so willfully ignorant?

There were people who were armed and the big charges being wielded are obstruction and conspiracy, of which seditionists are already pleading guilty to.

JFC

Just swallow it already.

#55 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-12 12:51 PM | Reply

...don't forget a stun gun walking stick and hand ties.

What the hell did they need hand ties for, I do wonder?

#56 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-12 12:54 PM | Reply

#54 On capitol grounds....is that the same thing as in the capitol building?

I guess we can call a fire extinguisher a weapon of opportunity.

#57 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-12 01:00 PM | Reply

Just sayin', aint nobody got charged with sedition or treason or insurrerectinin'. In DC courts. The big charges are rioting and property damage. Nobody was armed.

#41 | Posted by HeliumRat

Who needs to be armed when you can just beat cops with a handy american flag pole?

Hey Garland - read this moron's post. If you don't charge the terrorists with more than trespassing, america's morons are going to think they didn't do anything wrong.

#58 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 01:28 PM | Reply

#54 On capitol grounds....is that the same thing as in the capitol building?

I guess we can call a fire extinguisher a weapon of opportunity.

#57 | Posted by BellRinger

Your defense of your coup attempt is to argue the semantics over whether it was indoors or outdoors?

#59 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 01:28 PM | Reply

Seditionists have already pleaded guilty to obstruction and conspiracy, with max prison time set at 20 years, right in line with sedition charge.

Why are DR resident Trumpers ignoring that?

#60 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-12 02:00 PM | Reply

1,500 QAnon cultists milling around and breaking things )and taking souvenirs) because why? They thought Trump would return from sky like Jesus? That's an insurrection?

Some of these idiots even conspired to riot. For Jesus/Hair.

BLM does billions in damage and murders people. Target them.

#61 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-01-12 03:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

BLM does billions in damage and murders people. Target them.

#61 | Posted by HeliumRat

You're going to spend the rest of your life trying to convince people that black people looting a target superstore is worse than white people trying to end democracy and install fascism.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 03:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Posted by HeliumRat

Do you enjoy constantly looking like a gullible fool?

Did Republicans ever track down Hunter Biden's email or is that Chinese billionaire still sniffing it?

#63 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-12 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#62 The stated goal of AntiFa is to destroy America. Target Corky and snoofy then. Self-confessed terrorists. Also CNN, who called them "heroes".

#64 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-01-12 03:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

BLM needs its own division at the FBI. Coordinated riots, by conspiracy, causing billions in damage, theft, arson, murder, and injury. And innocents are targeted.

#65 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2022-01-12 03:33 PM | Reply

Antifa " short for "anti-fascist" " is the name for loosely affiliated, left-leaning, anti-racist groups that monitor and track the activities of local neo-Nazis. The movement has no unified structure or national leadership but has emerged in the form of local bodies nationwide, particularly on the West Coast.

The primary goal is to stop neo-Nazis and white supremacists from gaining a platform rather than to promote a specific antifa agenda. The antifa groups are decidedly anti-racist, anti-sexist and anti-homophobia, but also by and large socially leftist and anti-capitalist.

www.usatoday.com

Perhaps they should extend their activities to include helping prevent helium poisoning in rats.

#66 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-12 03:45 PM | Reply

#62 The stated goal of AntiFa is to destroy America. Target Corky and snoofy then. Self-confessed terrorists. Also CNN, who called them "heroes".

#64 | Posted by HeliumRat

1. Antifa's goal is to destroy fascists. Fascists are not america. Not yet. But if you and your cult members try hard enough you might be able to make that happen.

2. Show liberals electing antifa members the way trump's fascist cult elects fascist cult members.

#67 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 03:53 PM | Reply

BLM needs its own division at the FBI. Coordinated riots, by conspiracy, causing billions in damage, theft, arson, murder, and injury. And innocents are targeted.

#65 | Posted by HeliumRat

Does the FBI have a DEPARTMENT OF DESPERATE FALSE EQUIVALENCIES?

#68 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 03:54 PM | Reply

Gassy Rodent has been TRIGGERED! SAD!!

#69 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2022-01-12 05:10 PM | Reply

"Covid won't get better until half the country stop believing it's a hoax and decides to get vaccinated."

COVID won't be over until people stop believing ---- like this.

Gibraltar is the most vaccinated planet on the country. 119% are fully vaxxed. The current infection rate is 3280/100,000 (past 14 days).

In comparison, the US has 62% vaxxed, and the infection rate and 1289 cases per 100k.

I'm not sure why some continue to promote this narrative of "vaccines will end COVID." They won't. They'll keep a lot of people fromm getting sick, and even more from dying, but if you're looking at the real-world example of Gibraltar, COVID is here to stay. That's something many of you are going to have to reconcile.

#70 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 07:50 PM | Reply

"Violent coup attempts to replace democracy with fascism aren't bad unless police die."

Until, in a few years it's your team rioting over a loss.

Hell, remind me again your position on the electoral college. On the Senate.

Don't pretend to be a champion of the constitution. You're not.

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 07:52 PM | Reply

"Until, in a few years it's your team rioting over a loss."

The riot was an attempt to prevent the Senate scorekrepers from tallying the final score. Make the game a default. At which point the GOP House becomes the scorekeeper, and Trump wins.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 07:58 PM | Reply

Gibraltar, lol.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 07:59 PM | Reply

Does the FBI have a DEPARTMENT OF DESPERATE FALSE EQUIVALENCIES?

#68 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2022-01-12 03:54 PM | REPLY | FLAG

It's headed by bellringer.

#74 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The riot was an attempt to prevent the Senate scorekrepers from tallying the final score. Make the game a default. At which point the GOP House becomes the scorekeeper, and Trump wins."

Kind of like the Days of Rage were an attempt by leftist students to incite a socialist revolution?

They failed too.

#75 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:21 PM | Reply

Gibraltar, lol.

What's funny? That around 3% of the population in a fully vaccinated country is still infected with COVID?

That tells me that the vaccine is not going to stop COVID.

#76 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:22 PM | Reply

Six days ago Gibraltar posted it's highest number of new COVID cases since the start of the pandemic, despite the population being fully vaccinated.

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:24 PM | Reply

I bet there are way less deaths.
Vaccines make covid less likely to kill.

Are you a moron?

#78 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:25 PM | Reply

"Violent coup attempts to replace democracy with fascism aren't bad unless police die."

Until, in a few years it's your team rioting over a loss.

Hell, remind me again your position on the electoral college. On the Senate.

Don't pretend to be a champion of the constitution. You're not.

#71 | Posted by madbomber

You have to PRETEND my team would do what your team ALREADY DID.

Sociopaths always assume everyone is a sociopath just like them. You can't comprehend what it's like to NOT be a sociopath.

#79 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 08:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Don't pretend to be a champion of the constitution. You're not.

#71 | Posted by madbomber

At this point everyone is either on team democracy or team fascism.

Why have you chosen team fascism?

#80 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-12 08:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Vaccines make covid less likely to kill."

I agree completely. Which is why I said that.

It was Chuffy who stated that "Covid won't get better until half the country stop believing it's a hoax and decides to get vaccinated."

Honestly, right now, this might be as good as it gets. But Gibraltar is proof that the vaccine isn't going to stop COVID, it's just going to stop you from dying of COVID.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:31 PM | Reply

"You have to PRETEND my team would do what your team ALREADY DID."

Technically, it's not my team. But your team has already done this. 1968 Democratic Convention and the days of rage. And decades of leftist rioters protesting democracy over the years. First the Black Bloc...before they renamed themselves as Antifa.

#82 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:33 PM | Reply

Considering only one disease has been eradicated through vaccines, I suspect what Chuffy meant was the pandemic being over, not the disease going extinct.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:34 PM | Reply

"Why have you chosen team fascism?"

I choose a third team. Team constutution. And that's really the only team that matters.

#84 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"leftist rioters protesting democracy"

Got any examples?

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:34 PM | Reply

Is this like when a team loses the Super Bowl, and their fans riot, they're rioting against the existence of football itself?

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:35 PM | Reply

Team constutution

In germany.

#87 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:36 PM | Reply

"Considering only one disease has been eradicated through vaccines, I suspect what Chuffy meant was the pandemic being over, not the disease going extinct."

The vaccines don't appear to be doing anything to slow the pandemic. Many parts of the world are still posting record numbers of new cases.

My wife did tell me this though. On the European news they were saying that vaccinations are not going to end the pandemic in the way that many had thought it would, and now the governments are going to shift over into management. There are even questions as to whether or not a 4th shot is worth the effort.

So she said...I wasn't there. I'm in Florida at the moment.

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:37 PM | Reply

"Got any examples?"

www.bing.com

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:38 PM | Reply

"Gibraltar, lol."
"What's funny?"

You think 2.5 square miles of rock is an apt comparison to the United States.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:39 PM | Reply

Wanting revenge isn't anti-Democratic.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:39 PM | Reply

www.bing.com

Almost like flying a swastika, no?

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The vaccines don't appear to be doing anything to slow the pandemic."

Were they supposed to?

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:40 PM | Reply

"You think 2.5 square miles of rock is an apt comparison to the United States."

Tell me you're not this dumb.

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:41 PM | Reply

"Almost like flying a swastika, no?"

You'll have to ask Sentinel about that. He's the self-proclaimed expert.

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

www.bing.com

#96 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:42 PM | Reply

"You'll have to ask Sentinel about that. He's the self-proclaimed expert."

I asked you.

#97 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:42 PM | Reply

Almost like flying a swastika, no?

I don't know any jews that crap themselves when they see a che shirt or a commie scythe.

Nazi's specifically believe in white power, eugenics, and mass murder. It's poor equivalency on your part.

#98 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You think 2.5 square miles of rock is an apt comparison to the United States."
Tell me you're not this dumb.
#94 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I'm not dumb enough to think Gibraltar is much like the USA.

One is a city of 30,000.

One is a country of 330,000,000.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:44 PM | Reply

"I don't know any jews that crap themselves when they see a che shirt or a commie scythe."

That's because you don't know any jews. Or eastern Europeans.

Ask the Baltic countries what they think of that flag.

Or don't. Keep making exceuses and defecting. It is your team, after all.

#100 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:46 PM | Reply

"I'm not dumb enough to think Gibraltar is much like the USA."

Are you too dumb to understand percentages?

#101 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:46 PM | Reply

"Nazi's specifically believe in white power, eugenics, and mass murder. It's poor equivalency on your part."

And socialists believe in replacing not only democracy, but capitalism as well.

If you weren't on their side, you would be scared. They killed far more people than the Nazis did. Most of them their own people. Most of them for drifting just a bit too far from socialist orthodoxy.

#102 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"And socialists believe in replacing not only democracy, but capitalism as well."

What's Social Democracy?
"Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy within socialism[1] that supports political and economic democracy."

What's Democratic Socialism?
"Democratic socialism is a political philosophy that supports political democracy within a socially owned economy"

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you weren't on their side

I'm a Capitalist, dude. Not a communist AT ALL. It's terrible.

BUT

Nazi's were more evil.

#104 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Most of them their own people."

They killed other socialists?

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:50 PM | Reply

What do Capitalists believe in replacing?

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 08:51 PM | Reply

I'm actually kind of offended to be mistaken for a communist, Madbomber. You clearly like assigning positions to other people.

#107 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:53 PM | Reply

107

Imagine being mistaken for a nazi or nazi sympathizer just because you argue with someone who is also arguing with Sentinel at the same time.

But it's not serious. Nobody is serious with that.

#108 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 08:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#103

It's a distinction without difference. Social Democracy, in practice, tends to be based on capitalism, with the understanding that capitalism is necessary because in practice socialism doesn't work.

Democratic Socialism is little more than a flowery name for the type of socialism that was practiced by the Soviets.

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 08:56 PM | Reply

Eberly- you argued that nazis were a marginalized group. WHILE SENTINEL WAS BUSy CALLING PEOPLE "------ reza" and "dirty J-W" in that thread.

You cooked your own goose on that one!

#110 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Democratic Socialism is little more than a flowery name for the type of socialism that was practiced by the Soviets.

#109 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2022-01-12 08:56 PM | FLAG:

I disagree. It's not a Capitalism VS Communism debate, it's a "we live in a capitalist society, how are we going to spend our tax monies" debate.

Unless you think Bernie Sanders wants to kill non democratic socialists you're kinda full of crap.

#111 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 08:59 PM | Reply

Eberly- I don't think you're a nazi or whatever.

I think you were disingenuously trolling people in an extremely heated discussion, and stepped on a land mine.

A land mine you set down first.

#112 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm a Capitalist, dude. Not a communist AT ALL. It's terrible. BUT Nazi's were more evil."

A little bit of Madbomber family history. Part of the family comes from Latvia. When the Nazis invaded they were forced into a camp after killing a few. The camp was liberated and they went home. Then the Red Army came in and killed some more. A handful escaped into Germany, and then on into the US.

I get that there is this sort of romantic relationship on the left with communism. The Che T-Shirts...claiming to be socialist. To me, that's no different than wearing a swastika and claiming to be a national socialist. Maybe you can make some moral distinction. I cannot. It's like claiming that ISIS wasn't all that bad. They were all evil.

#113 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 09:02 PM | Reply

112

That was just one exchange out of many many more where the only way someone can discuss something is to first call me a nazi or racist or whatever.

They literally can't debate otherwise with me.

and 100% of the time.....at worst, someone was trolling me first and I choose NOT to ignore it.

#114 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I'm actually kind of offended to be mistaken for a communist, Madbomber. You clearly like assigning positions to other people."

I don't think you're a communist. No one in their right mind who understood communism would be a communist. I do think you view them as being left-wing extremists, and because of that you view them in a slightly more favorable light than left-wing extremists.

And you called me an extremist earlier. How could you possibly come to that conclusion if not for the fact that I wasn't a leftist?

#115 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 09:03 PM | Reply

"Unless you think Bernie Sanders wants to kill non democratic socialists you're kinda full of crap."

Bernie Sanders is idelogically linked to those who did kill non-democratic socialists.

#116 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 09:05 PM | Reply

I get that there is this sort of romantic relationship on the left with communism.

I do not share that romanticism for communism, even in my college years. My moral distinction comes from the fact that my grandfather fought against the nazis is WWII. Thank you for sharing your family history.

#117 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:05 PM | Reply

That was just one exchange out of many many more where the only way someone can discuss something is to first call me a nazi or racist or whatever.

I apologize for being a part of that, eberly.

#118 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:06 PM | Reply

118

No apology necessary, Alex.

It was my choice to pour gas on that dumpster fire.

#119 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Bernie Sanders is idelogically linked to those who did kill non-democratic socialists.

#116 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2022-01-12 09:05 PM | FLAG:

Bernie sanders belief system is based in where tax money in a capitalist society goes. He's hardly Lennon or Stalin.

That being said: He really should call himself something else!

#120 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:10 PM | Reply

No apology necessary, Alex.

No, I was out of line.

#121 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:10 PM | Reply

-you argued that nazis were a marginalized group.

Oh, THAT thread. That wasn't what I meant.

I was arguing the point of how some marginalized groups were seemingly more more marginalized than others.

I wanted (can't remember for sure) Truth or speak or someone like that to rank them. I made a list and included "Nazi" and I meant to say "accused of being a nazi" which is so common here nobody even notices it when they are called a nazi if it's happened so many times.

The only poster here who has ever taken up any kind argument regarding nazis are madbomber and Sentinel. Everyone uses it as an excuse to freak out.

none of it's sincere, IMO. It's just an excuse to attack people.

It will be the next time as well. It'll never change.

#122 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:14 PM | Reply

"I disagree. It's not a Capitalism VS Communism debate, it's a "we live in a capitalist society, how are we going to spend our tax monies" debate."

First you have to define what "our tax monies" are.

Who has primacy over earned income? The individual or the state?

#123 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 09:17 PM | Reply

"WHILE SENTINEL WAS BUSy CALLING PEOPLE "------ reza" and "dirty J-W" in that thread."

but interesting you remember what Sentinel was posting while pointing out what I said.

simply put, I argued with others at the same time Sentinel was arguing.....but not the same argument. in fact, I argued myself with sentinel.

It's okay.

For a while it was a great thread.

#124 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:18 PM | Reply

MB- The individual.

Again, I'm merely discussing where are tax money should go, not that the state needs to own everything to distribute it 'equally'.

#125 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 09:22 PM | Reply

"I do not share that romanticism for communism, even in my college years. My moral distinction comes from the fact that my grandfather fought against the nazis is WWII."

So did mine on the US side. But I've said this before: At the time the Nazis took power, Germany was on the edge of a civil war between the communists and the national socialists. Those were the extremes people had to choose between. What concerns me now is that the US might be apporaching a similar position, although I think the US is better poised to weather that sort of ideological conflict than Germany was after the signing of the treaty of Versailles.

#126 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-12 09:23 PM | Reply

Alex, like a true liberal looking to end an argument, behaves like an adult and apologizes to Eberly.

Regardless of the fact Eberly originally ran in to troll, and then got kicked around. For two days.

Then. Like a true conservative. Eberly explained how everyone else was wrong but him.

Eberly. You were defending homophobia and racism.

But. You are you and this is why I come to the DR.

#127 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-12 09:30 PM | Reply

-You were defending homophobia and racism.

You need to accuse someone of that.

Might as well be some anonymous dude on the internet.

That's as close as you'll ever get to really doing it.

#128 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:35 PM | Reply

-this is why I come to the DR.

We all appreciate the little show you put on for us.

You're entertainment. Some like it. Some don't.

But you don't come here to discuss or debate.

Attack then cry when getting punched in the face.

Let's cease this for now and see if I'm right. We'll have a new discussion soon.

Let's see who gets off topic and goes after someone personally.

#129 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-12 09:39 PM | Reply

Who has primacy over earned income? The individual or the state?
#123 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

What's it matter? Why limit it to earned income? Taxes gotta come from somewhere. You'd rather impose a wealth tax or something?

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 09:40 PM | Reply

Bernie Sanders is idelogically linked to those who did kill non-democratic socialists.
#116 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Capitalists are ideologically linked to Hitler.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 09:42 PM | Reply

And so are Vegetarians for that matter.

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 09:42 PM | Reply

What's MadBomber ideologically linked to?

Himself.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 09:42 PM | Reply

"Social Democracy, in practice, tends to be based on capitalism"

It's based on a capitalist economy, a human rights society, and public welfare.
That's what you've got over there in Germany, and the benefits are obvious.
Why you oppose this for the United States is something you can't explain.

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 09:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Mythbombers will bomb myths.

According to him, northern European social democracies, aka the Nordic Model, are led by the Zombie Karl Marx.

Which is even funnier considering they rate themselves the happiest people in the world year after year.

Did you know that in some of those countries property taxes are miniscule if used at all? That business regulation is often less than here?

That they are all thriving capitalist economies whose people have decided that health care is not a luxury, neither is education, and that long vacations and family time for new parents, among many other benefits, are good for the people, therefore for the country?

Some people have been, one supposes, slaves to the MIC too long to think for themselves. They just regurgitate the corporate/military handbook. Apparently the belief that Hitler had that he, the industrialists, and the military could together rule the world is part and parcel of the modern "conservative"'s world view.

Even though that didn't really werk out all that well.

A real conservative Pres Ike warned us about the MIC and what they were making of America - an authoritarian playground for industry. But some people never listened.

#135 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-12 10:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Where do you believe the center exists? IMO, the Democrats are a mostly center-right party (which pretty much makes them the moderates).

You have lost your mind. LOL, Democrats center right? That's not my experience. If we had center right Democrats, there wouldnt be party line votes, some would vote with Republicans. But on most things, I havent seen that happen.

If Democrats were "center right" they would vote with me some of the time.

#136 | Posted by boaz at 2022-01-12 11:00 PM | Reply

Nordic model

en.wikipedia.org

Rwingers actually had a lot of input into the formulation of some social democracies, they just weren't fascists.

Fascism (/f ... z'm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. ... Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete.

en.wikipedia.org

#137 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-12 11:04 PM | Reply

If Democrats were "center right" they would vote with me some of the time.

Unless you're farther to the right than you know.

#138 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-12 11:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Unless you're farther to the right than you know.

If he was a NASCAR driver he'd never make it past the first turn.

#139 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-01-12 11:31 PM | Reply

"If Democrats were "center right" they would vote with me some of the time."

The Democrats voted for all those wars you fought in.

Did you not vote for those wars?

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-12 11:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"forcible suppression of opposition"

Trump normalizes this through the voluntary actions of his own supporters, for example all those Republicans who refer to other Republicans as RINOs.

It's not forcible oppression, but it serves the same goal as forcible oppression, which is political isolation of anyone who questions the Supreme Leader.

And so, if they'll go along with that ideologically through word and deed, it's that much easier to justify force.

Trump many times advocated the use of governmental power to silence his critics, especially in the press.

He even called the press the Enemy of the American People.

Republicans have been holding this grudge since I* was in diapers; ever since Watergate. As ye sow so shall ye reap.

Speaking of Watergate, it was in the same vein as forcible suppression of opposition, but it had to be done clandestinely owing to the Cold War sensitivities of the time. While the USSR stood, it would be un-American to call the press the enemy of the American people. There was a Pravda to help remind us of the press's role in a democracy.

Now, right-wingers have sources far to the right of Fox News and crazier than anything Pravda would dare print. And then we get people like Boaz who say Democracy is insufficient to protect minority rights, which is nonsense. Civil rights laws are what protect minority rights. Not giving minorities extra power in society. White men had to agree to give slaves their freedom, and kill those who disagreed, for it to happen.

The injustice of slavery persisted because a minority -- slave owners -- were given an outsized say in government. Among their demands were that another minority -- slaves -- not be given any say. So how did that protect minority rights? It didn't. The idea is preposterous. But Boaz isn't known for being able to write paragraphs of why he believes things, so we'll never really understand what he's talking about.

*Eberly

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 12:00 AM | Reply

"Republicans have been holding this grudge ... since Watergate."

True.

Clinton's impeachment was merely a temper tantrum for Nixon's (rightful) impeachment. Just like Biden's upcoming impeachment will be a temper tantrum for Trump's rightful impeachments.

#142 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-01-13 12:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why have you chosen team fascism?"

I choose a third team. Team constutution. And that's really the only team that matters.

#84 | Posted by madbomber

If you were really team constitution you'd be the most rabid anti trumper on this site.

You're team "pretending to be blind to how much worse republicans are than democrats"

#143 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 12:05 AM | Reply

Democratic Socialism is little more than a flowery name for the type of socialism that was practiced by the Soviets.

#109 | Posted by madbomber

Democratic socialism is capitalism except people get healthcare and education and billionaires can't buy the government. In other words its your worst nightmare.

#144 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 12:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Democratic Socialism is little more than a flowery name for the type of socialism that was practiced by the Soviets."

FFS, pick up a history book. America's Democratic Socialism is worlds apart from Soviet Oligarchy, no matter what flowery name they call themselves.

You'll fall for any name in the title, won't you? Spoiler alert: Germany's National Socialists weren't Socialists for a single day once they got into power. The Russian Oligarchy Dictatorship is "Socialist" in name only.

And boy, are you going to be upset about the Republican Guard!

#145 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-01-13 12:20 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He still can't get past the Democratic People's Republic of Korea... obviously it's a democratic republic of, by, and for the People just like US!

#146 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 11:02 AM | Reply

"Capitalists are ideologically linked to Hitler."

Far less than socialists are ideologically linked to Hitler.

#147 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 12:58 PM | Reply

#133

It would be more accurate to say that I'm ideologically linked to the Constitution.

#148 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 12:59 PM | Reply

"It's based on a capitalist economy, a human rights society, and public welfare. That's what you've got over there in Germany, and the benefits are obvious. Why you oppose this for the United States is something you can't explain."

Me? Oppose it?

You're the one who,along with Speaksoftly, continuously dismissed the western European model.

I've been the one saying I would support something similar in the US.

#149 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:02 PM | Reply

"You're the one who,along with Speaksoftly, continuously dismissed the western European model."

LOL

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:04 PM | Reply

"Rwingers actually had a lot of input into the formulation of some social democracies, they just weren't fascists."

Actually, the corportist economies of western Europe, particularly in the far north aren't that far removed from the economies of the former fascist countries. Except for the fact that they are more liberal.

Nor "progressive," liberal.

#151 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:05 PM | Reply

"Capitalists are ideologically linked to Hitler."
Far less than socialists are ideologically linked to Hitler.
#147 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Also LOL

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:05 PM | Reply

"LOL"

Tell me again about your support for a value added tax. A staple in western Europe.

#153 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:06 PM | Reply

Tell us for the first time why the funding mechanism needs to be a VAT, and not any of the other taxes than can be used.

#154 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:07 PM | Reply

"If you were really team constitution you'd be the most rabid anti trumper on this site."

I'm pretty anti-Trump, but I am equally against those left-wing versions of Trump. Such as yourself.

#155 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:09 PM | Reply

Name a left-wing version of Trump, and give us their rank in the Democrat Party.

#156 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:10 PM | Reply

"Tell us for the first time why the funding mechanism needs to be a VAT, and not any of the other taxes than can be used."

Easy. Because that was the method that was selected by everyone of the western European nations. and they've worked for sevcen decades now.

It sounds to me like that would be something you would want to emulate.

#157 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:11 PM | Reply

It's not the funding mechanism I want to emulate. It's the welfare programs.

#158 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:12 PM | Reply

"Name a left-wing version of Trump, and give us their rank in the Democrat Party."

Bernie Sanders- Senator
Alexandria Occasio Cortez- HoR
Maxine Waters- Hor

#159 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You understand the two things -- the tax, and the spend -- are separate things, right?

Maybe you don't.

Keep posting if you dont.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:13 PM | Reply

"It's not the funding mechanism I want to emulate. It's the welfare programs."

No you don't. Be honest. You've said as much.

No welfare programs unless they're paid for by high income earners.

Which really means you want to target high income earners. Welfare programs are simply the weapon you would use.

If you were serious about wanting more welfare programs, you'd look to those countries that have done it successfully and follow their models. You're not serious about it.

#161 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:16 PM | Reply

"Name a left-wing version of Trump, and give us their rank in the Democrat Party."
Bernie Sanders- Senator
Alexandria Occasio Cortez- HoR
Maxine Waters- Hor

None of those are anywhere close to leadership.

One of them isn't even a Democrat.

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:16 PM | Reply

"No welfare programs unless they're paid for by high income earners."

I never said that, but those with more incomes will pay more income taxes, even under a flat tax regime.

#163 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:19 PM | Reply

"If you were really team constitution you'd be the most rabid anti trumper on this site."

I'm pretty anti-Trump, but I am equally against those left-wing versions of Trump. Such as yourself.

#155 | Posted by madbomber

There is none.

No one on my side used the justice department to hide their crimes and prosecute their enemies.

No one on my side is trying to end democracy because the lost an election.

No one on my side colludes with hostile dictators to win elections.

All you can to is PRETEND my side is as bad as yours.

#164 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:20 PM | Reply

"Which really means you want to target high income earners. Welfare programs are simply the weapon you would use."

Taxes aren't a weapon.

They're a revenue stream for government.

Grow up.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:20 PM | Reply

"FFS, pick up a history book. America's Democratic Socialism is worlds apart from Soviet Oligarchy, no matter what flowery name they call themselves."

No, it's not.

Democratic Socialism implies the primacy of the socialist state, with everything being subordinate to that. In a real democracy, voters could choose to end the socialist state. It's for this reason that socialist countries banned non-socialist parties. It's why they banned one's ability to benefit from their own labor. Because once individuals realize that they can benefit themselves from their efforts, socialism fails.

#166 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:21 PM | Reply

I'm pretty anti-Trump

#155 | Posted by madbomber

If you spend all day every day spreading trump's propaganda, trying to put trump back into power, while being "pretty anti trump", what would you be doing if you were PRO trump?

#167 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:22 PM | Reply

"I never said that, but those with more incomes will pay more income taxes, even under a flat tax regime."

When I posed the question if you would support increased welfare programs if funded through a VAT, your response was "probably not."

So, I guess you're right. It was a soft "no." Not a hard no.

#168 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:22 PM | Reply

In a real democracy, voters could choose to end the socialist state.
#166 | Posted by madbomber

In a real democracy your party would be destroyed and trump would be in prison.

#169 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only reason the republican party has any national power is because we dont have a real democracy.

#170 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Taxes aren't a weapon."

So...would you support a VAT then?

#171 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:24 PM | Reply

"When I posed the question if you would support increased welfare programs if funded through a VAT, your response was "probably not."

So?

The only way a VAT is feasible is if we repeal State and Local sales tax.

Since you know that's not economically viable, you keep insisting on a VAT, as a poison pill to kill expanded welfare spending.

Grow up.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:25 PM | Reply

"In a real democracy your party would be destroyed and trump would be in prison."

Destroyed by what? An armed proletariat? The secret police?

I have no doubts your vision of the US includes a one-party state led by people such as yourself.

#173 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:25 PM | Reply

"Destroyed by what? An armed proletariat? The secret police?"

By democracy. By the voters.

#174 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:26 PM | Reply

"Since you know that's not economically viable, you keep insisting on a VAT, as a poison pill to kill expanded welfare spending."

It's not viable?

The western European economies aren't viable?

#175 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:27 PM | Reply

Grow up.

#176 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"By democracy. By the voters."

You mean the same voters who are going to almost certainly win in 2022?

They're going to destroy themselves???

#177 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:28 PM | Reply

Destroyed by what?

By the power of the voter.

You're really dumb, aren't you.

#178 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 01:28 PM | Reply

"Grow up."

What an informative and thoughtful response.

#179 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:28 PM | Reply

"You're really dumb, aren't you."

I don't think so.

I'm not the one claiming that people who vote for a party are the same who will destory it.

#180 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 01:29 PM | Reply

Its an appropriate response to your tireless ankle biting and willful misrepresentation of the facts.

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 01:29 PM | Reply

your vision of the US includes a one-party state led by people such as yourself.
#173 | POSTED BY SadBoomer

Projection at its finest.

Republicans write laws to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

SadBoomer accuses Democrats of wanting a one party system.

The guy is a fkkking joke.

#182 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 01:34 PM | Reply

I don't think so.
#180 | POSTED BY SadBoomer

Well isn't that adorable.

#183 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 01:36 PM | Reply

"In a real democracy your party would be destroyed and trump would be in prison."

Destroyed by what? An armed proletariat? The secret police?

I have no doubts your vision of the US includes a one-party state led by people such as yourself.

#173 | Posted by madbomber

By the fact that no one agrees to their agenda so none of their policies would get enacted.

If the electoral college, senate, supreme court, and white house weren't all tilted to favor your party, you couldnt compete.

#184 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:37 PM | Reply

"By democracy. By the voters."

You mean the same voters who are going to almost certainly win in 2022?

They're going to destroy themselves???

#177 | Posted by madbomber

Because we wont have democracy in 2022. We'll have fascism where the losing party can overturn the election. And fascists like you will still vote for them.

#185 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 01:38 PM | Reply

"No one on my side used the justice department to hide their crimes and prosecute their enemies"

Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch would like a word with you.

" No one on my side colludes with hostile dictators to win elections"

No matter how thoroughly a story has fallen apart cult members like Speaksoftly will never let it go. But those who embrace fascism must cling to their false narratives.

#186 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 01:53 PM | Reply

#185. A lot can happen between now and the midterm. If the election were held tomorrow your beloved Democratic Party would get smoked and you'd pull a Trump and claim the elections were stolen.

#187 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 01:55 PM | Reply

" By the fact that no one agrees to their agenda so none of their policies would get enacted."

How is BBB and the election theft act working out? Biden's approval rating is in the 30's. With independents and Latinos he's in the 20's. It seems nobody wants Biden's policies which is why he's getting little done legislatively.

#188 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 01:59 PM | Reply

If spending a trillion is getting little done, who has gotten more done?

#189 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:00 PM | Reply

Loretta Lynch used the Justice Department to target her enemies?

Eric Holder too?

Link?

#190 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:01 PM | Reply

you'd pull a Trump and claim the elections were stolen.

Let's not round everyone down to Republican scum. Democrats lost in 2016 and didn't make baseless fraud allegations, didn't submit fraudulent electors to Congress, didn't launch fake state level audits, didn't use it as a launchpad to restrict voting rights ... this is all you and your ilk. We are not like you.

#191 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 02:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

How is BBB and the election theft act working out? Biden's approval rating is in the 30's. With independents and Latinos he's in the 20's. It seems nobody wants Biden's policies which is why he's getting little done legislatively.

#188 | Posted by BellRinger

Excellent example. The country wants BBB, but we can't have it because government is anti democratic and gives your cult massive electoral and political advantages.

You're pointing to your own cult's unfair ability to obstruct as evidence of the other party's failure.

#192 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 02:11 PM | Reply

#185. A lot can happen between now and the midterm. If the election were held tomorrow your beloved Democratic Party would get smoked and you'd pull a Trump and claim the elections were stolen.

#187 | Posted by BellRinger

Except republicans are actually trying to steal it. It's the only thing they're actually working on.

Your PARANOID FANTASIES about democrats stealing elections exist because YOURE ACTUALLY stealing elections.

#193 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 02:12 PM | Reply

"Excellent example. The country wants BBB, but we can't have it because government is anti democratic and gives your cult massive electoral and political advantages."

^
I wonder if any of them are brave enough to deny this is indeed the case!

#194 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:13 PM | Reply

" No one on my side colludes with hostile dictators to win elections"

No matter how thoroughly a story has fallen apart cult members like Speaksoftly will never let it go. But those who embrace fascism must cling to their false narratives.

#186 | Posted by BellRinger

Let's hear your innocent explanation for why trump was sharing polling data with putin in 2016....

I'll wait.

#195 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 02:13 PM | Reply

"No one on my side colludes with hostile dictators to win elections"

Even if they did, collusion isn't a crime, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Presuably, though, you're trying to deflect from the fact that Russia uses the NRA and other front organizations to funnel Russian Mafia money into the GOP for Russian/GOP political gain.

#196 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:14 PM | Reply

those who embrace fascism must cling to their false narratives.
#186 | Posted by BellRinger

Like, the election was stolen, 1/6 was just a normal protest, Trump was a great President.

#197 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 02:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#151

Someone get MB an dictionary, quick!

Now he's calling northern European social democracies fascists...

Fascism (/f ... z'm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and the economy that rose to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. ... Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete.

en.wikipedia.org

He's a rwinger who ignores the inconvenient definitions of the terms he uses. Because, well, he's a rwinger.

#198 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 02:34 PM | Reply

#193. Which elections have Republicans stolen?

Oh BTW I thought it was seditious to question the outcome of an election.

Here's a piece of unsolicited advice - excessive use of caps doesn't strengthen your argument. It makes you appear to be unglued.

#199 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 02:35 PM | Reply

Everything my senses tell me is that our current form of democracy is endangered. January 6 or no January 6. People, mostly in the Red States, are giving up on the system. People are increasingly willing to sacrifice Federal minimum standards for the entire nation in favor of giving the States to go in their own way even if that includes engaging in discriminatory and authoritarian behavior by local governments. (The Texas law on abortion being a perfect example.)

The issue is bigger than Trump and his low intelligence supporters. And it has been percolating for many years. Increasingly, which State you choose to live in will have a big impact on your civil rights and liberties. Here in California, I feel protected. I just cannot imagine living in a place like Texas or Florida. Big States willing to kowtow to extremist rightwing elements.

#200 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-01-13 02:44 PM | Reply

#186 | Posted by BellRinger

Let's hear your innocent explanation for why trump was sharing polling data with putin in 2016....

I'll wait.

#201 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 02:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#200

The American fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact. Their newspapers and propaganda carefully cultivate every fissure of disunity, every crack in the common front against fascism. - Henry A. Wallace

Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection. - Henry A. Wallace

Read more at www.brainyquote.com

Wallace was FDRs VP and the Progressive Party nominee in the 1948 presidential election.

en.wikipedia.org

#202 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 02:52 PM | Reply

#201. Ooh. One of his underlings shared polling data with an individual in Russia. Crime of the century right there! You'd think that they colluded with all sorts of Russians to create a false document about Hilkary and peddle it to the media and FBI.

#203 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 02:52 PM | Reply

#200 Good points, but it's more than that. The electoral college, shameless Senators, and random chance have allowed Republicans a 6-3 SCOTUS, and 5 of the 6 are utterly shameless. States would be less able to "go rogue" and flaunt the Constitution if the Court were not so stacked. And now, even if Biden and Dems did somehow manage to surmount the insurmountable and get Manchinema to support a voting rights bill, it would have a near-zero chance of surviving a court challenge.

America as we knew it growing up is finished. Technological developments and a pandemic have segregated, isolated, and dehumanized us, and Republicans have embraced lies and dictatorship while Dems continue to play by old rules.

#204 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 02:55 PM | Reply

Let's also not discount how politics as a team sport have ruined the country. Trump proved the depths to which seemingly normal folks will plunge to support the red jersey. Nobody before him even tried.

#205 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 02:56 PM | Reply

204 and 205 are some of the biggest cases of projection and -------- I've seen in quite some time.

#206 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 02:59 PM | Reply

A 50/50 split in the Senate, the narrowest of majorities in the House and a deeply unpopular president yet you think you should get everything you want. Build a winning message. Persuade voters to embrace these policies and then go win elections and build enough political capital to get some things passed into law.

#207 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:02 PM | Reply

No, Republicans will simply block anything the Democrats propose. And you'll blame the Democrats for that.

#208 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:05 PM | Reply

Win elections and you don't have to worry about the GOP.

#209 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:05 PM | Reply

204 and 205 are some of the biggest cases of projection and -------- I've seen in quite some time

And yet you won't refute a word of it. Just as well, no discussion with you has ever been productive. So why respond at all? Just ---- off, hack.

#210 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:06 PM | Reply

#210. I refuted it and it's making you cry.

BTW how about all of those wins Biden keeps racking up? It's undoubtedly a source of your perpetual anger and butt hurt.

#211 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:09 PM | Reply

#201. Ooh. One of his underlings shared polling data with an individual in Russia. Crime of the century right there! You'd think that they colluded with all sorts of Russians to create a false document about Hilkary and peddle it to the media and FBI.

#203 | Posted by BellRinger

Oh so you WERE aware that your cult leader COLLUDED WITH PUTIN to get elected.

So how come you wrote earlier that russiagate turned out to be nothing?

Because you think COLLUDING WITH PUTIN AND GIVING PUTIN POWER TO CONTROL THE PRESIDENT is no big deal?

What did you think when you heard trump pardoned the guy who had been funnelling putin's money to the GOP through the NRA?

How come putin loves funding republicans so much, since his goal is the downfall of america?

#212 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 03:09 PM | Reply

Win elections and you don't have to worry about the GOP.

#209 | Posted by BellRinger

Give us fair elections and see who wins them.

#213 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 03:10 PM | Reply

"yet you think you should get everything you want."

The winner should get everything they want.

It's called "winner take all" for a reason.

#214 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:14 PM | Reply

#212. Take some meds. Your screen is covered in spittle.

#213. We don't have fair elections? Are you promoting the big lie, Trumper?

#215 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:14 PM | Reply

#214. Take a Civics101 class, or at the very least watch the Schoolhouse Rock video "I'm just a bill"

#216 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:16 PM | Reply

I refuted it

Declaring something BS with no supporting argument is not a refutation, --------.

BTW how about all of those wins Biden keeps racking up?

Biden was a last resort vote for me, but i never had any illusions about him accomplishing anything. Between moderate Dem Senators and a 6-3 partisan court, his odds of getting anything done are zero and always have been. So no surprises for me. He is less embarrassing than Trump every single day though, so at least there's that.

#217 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:16 PM | Reply

217. Credit is where it's due. With that post you demonstrate an understanding of our civic processes.

#218 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:19 PM | Reply

"or at the very least watch the Schoolhouse Rock video "I'm just a bill"

I must have missed the verse about the Filibuster.

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:19 PM | Reply

Joe, read #207. That was my refutation.

#220 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:20 PM | Reply

#220 I assumed #207 was not directed at me since you said "yet you think you should get everything you want" even though i never said anything that could be interpreted that way. So, still not a refutation, just an idiotic strawman.

#221 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:22 PM | Reply

#219 So? I'm just a bill lays out that the bill must pass the Senate.

#222 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:22 PM | Reply

And what does the filibuster have to do with a bill passing the Senate?

#223 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:23 PM | Reply

It was a response to this comment:

" America as we knew it growing up is finished."

It was a whine fest on your part. " Oh, I can't get what I want therefore the system must be broken because it can't possibly be that the policies I want do t have broad support. "

#224 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:25 PM | Reply

#223 are you really ignorant of our civic processes. I don't have time to educate you on something so basic.

#225 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:26 PM | Reply

"America as we knew it growing up is finished."

Can't really argue with that.

#226 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:26 PM | Reply

"#223 are you really ignorant of our civic processes."

Nope.

Are you really ignorant of our civic processes that give Republicans oversized representation in government?

#227 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:28 PM | Reply

"I don't have time to educate you on something so basic."

Yes you do.

#228 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:28 PM | Reply

#213. We don't have fair elections? Are you promoting the big lie, Trumper?

#215 | Posted by BellRinger

You tell me. Is an election where the person with fewer votes wins a "fair election?"

A 3rd grader could answer that question. Can you?

#229 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 03:31 PM | Reply

It was a response to this comment:
" America as we knew it growing up is finished."

That in no way correlates to me expecting Dems to get everything they want. It is a factual statement borne out by the current events and the rest of what i described. You responded to it with a strawman.

#230 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:33 PM | Reply

For someone who lectures others on civics101 so much, Balldrainer sure does seem to have a reading101 problem.

#231 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:34 PM | Reply

#212. Take some meds. Your screen is covered in spittle.

#215 | Posted by BellRinger

You're the one who said russiagate was a hoax. Now that I've destroyed your lies you're trying to squirm away by saying "you're too emotional about it."

#232 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 03:34 PM | Reply

It was a whine fest on your part. " Oh, I can't get what I want therefore the system must be broken because it can't possibly be that the policies I want do t have broad support. "

#224 | Posted by BellRinger

That is your cult's entire strategy. Cheat elections because you can't win them fairly on policies.

Democracy elected a black guy, so your cult decided fascism is better.

#233 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 03:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Democracy didn't choose Trump, therefore Democracy is not the preferred form of government of Republicans.

#234 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:37 PM | Reply

#232 the only thing you've destroyed is your computer screen.

#235 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:47 PM | Reply

#230 it's your opinion. Opinions aren't facts

#236 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:49 PM | Reply

it's your opinion

Still doesn't lend itself to the strawman you decided to construct. And you'll never make an argument on that fundamental point because deep down you know you're full of ---- here.

#237 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:56 PM | Reply

This is how Time magazine giddily described the 2020 election:

"a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information."

THAT isn't democracy.

#238 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 03:58 PM | Reply

Why isn't that democracy?

#239 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:59 PM | Reply

#237. You constantly whine about the system when things don't go your way. The electoral college has been in existence since this country's founding. Campaigns are structured around a well known set of rules. It applies only to POTUS.

#240 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:01 PM | Reply

#239 stop asking stupid ------- questions. You aren't clever.

#241 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:03 PM | Reply

"Campaigns are structured around a well known set of rules."

The rules are well known.

The rules are not democratic.

Can we agree on that?

#242 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:03 PM | Reply

#239 stop asking stupid ------- questions. You aren't clever.
#241 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

No, really. What you (Time) just described is free association. How is that contrary to the principles of democracy?

#243 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:05 PM | Reply

No, it really isn't. But keep being you.

By that logic "dark money " is totally good.

#244 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:06 PM | Reply

What about it is incompatible with democracy?

Be specific.

Is Dark Money incompatible with democracy?
How about Light Money then?
What's the difference, given that money is fungible?

#245 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:08 PM | Reply

"By that logic "dark money " is totally good."

Only one party has received millions in dark money through the NRA.

#246 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:14 PM | Reply

You constantly whine about the system when things don't go your way

That's because "the system" is stupid, illogical and indefensible. I think that even when things do "go my way."

Just because i live in America and am familiar with its history does not mean i shouldn't ever question or criticize any of it, or that those criticisms are somehow borne of convenience and not legitimate concern for rationality or utility.

#247 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 04:14 PM | Reply

#246 now do Mark Zuckerberg.

#248 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:17 PM | Reply

#232 the only thing you've destroyed is your computer screen.

#235 | Posted by BellRinger

Apparently I destroyed your ability to defend your statements because as soon as I refute them try to change the topic or say I'm emotional.

Your entire strategy on this thread is just like the trump presidency - spout BS with every statement, knowing no one will be able to address it all, and refuse to engage on any one specific issue because you'll lose on the facts.

#249 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 04:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is how Time magazine giddily described the 2020 election:

"a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information."

THAT isn't democracy.

#238 | Posted by BellRinger

Those are all the actions of your fascist cult. Of course it's not democracy.

Your cult was so desperate to cheat that your cult leader literally slowed down the mail.

#250 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 04:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Just keep out spouting -------- goatman.

Keep on running so you don't have to answer questions that expose your cult.

Want to take another shot at them?

---

Oh so you WERE aware that your cult leader COLLUDED WITH PUTIN to get elected.

So how come you wrote earlier that russiagate turned out to be nothing?

Because you think COLLUDING WITH PUTIN AND GIVING PUTIN POWER TO CONTROL THE PRESIDENT is no big deal?

What did you think when you heard trump pardoned the guy who had been funnelling putin's money to the GOP through the NRA?

How come putin loves funding republicans so much, since his goal is the downfall of america?

#212 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

#251 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 04:21 PM | Reply

"That's because "the system" is stupid, illogical and indefensible. I think that even when things do "go my way"

Your opinion. It was designed to prevent impulsive 50%+1 majority rule. In a country this size with 57 states and all sorts of demographics what is logical is a federalist system where DC has limited powers. Strip some powers from the federal government in accordance with the constitution and apply the 10th dropping more powers to the states and the people and government becomes much more Democratic and representative.

#252 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:22 PM | Reply

"I think that even when things do "go my way."

Worth repeating.

I used to think the definition of Conservatism as "opposition to change" was missing something. There had to be some deeper ideology at work. Something about freedom, or rights, or liberty.

But now I realize that there is no deeper ideology. Conservatism is nothing more than doing things the way we do because we've always done them this way.

Case in point: Money in politics. Conservatives are so dependent on money in politics they've decided that taking money out of politics violates the right to freedom of speech. That makes no sense at all, but it doesn't have to. All it has to do is preserve the status quo.

#253 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:23 PM | Reply

Your opinion.

No ----, genius. Thanks for telling me my opinion is my opinion. What a riveting conversation.

#254 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 04:24 PM | Reply

#251 reposting your diatribes and adding spittle to your computer screen doesn't strengthen your argument. Biden green lighting Nordstream was a way bigger both n to Putin than anything Trump did.

#255 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:24 PM | Reply

"It was designed to prevent impulsive 50%+1 majority rule."

In effect it prevents well-thought-out 73%+1 majority rule.

But don't let the difference between the theory and the practice change your mind!

#256 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:25 PM | Reply

#254 you present your opinion as fact. It'd not. Glad I could be of service.

#257 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:25 PM | Reply

"a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information."
THAT isn't democracy.
#238 | Posted by BellRinger

if gunga dimwit, the liar, would only just continue on with that article he could have come across this:

"Every attempt to interfere with the proper outcome of the election was defeated...'

#258 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 04:28 PM | Reply

#257 I'm sorry my manner of presenting my positions offends your delicate sensibilities. Try not being such a snowflake ---- next time, Balldrainer.

#259 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 04:35 PM | Reply

#251 reposting your diatribes and adding spittle to your computer screen doesn't strengthen your argument. Biden green lighting Nordstream was a way bigger both n to Putin than anything Trump did.

#255 | Posted by BellRinger a

But it does prevent you from running away from questions you know the answer to.

Trump crippled NATO, putin's biggest obstacle. How come?

How come trump changed the republican platform to give ukraine to putin?

How come congress had to pass a bipartisan bill to prevent trump from lifting the sanctions on russia?

How come trump picked putin's favorite oil executive to be secretary of state?

How come trump pardoned the traitor who was funneling money from putin to the GOP?

How come putin, who wants to destroy america, does so much to help republicans?

#260 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#258. The point flew way over your crazy head.

#261 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:54 PM | Reply

#259 talk about a straw man.

Get over yourself.

#262 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:55 PM | Reply

Then make your point in your words, not those of Time Magazine.

#263 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:56 PM | Reply

For you? What is the point?

#264 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 04:58 PM | Reply

No, being understood by your audience is for you.

#265 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:59 PM | Reply

Mueller? That RINO?

Serves him right for putting the nation's interests ahead of Trump's.

#267 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 05:32 PM | Reply

Meuller is going to get Trump any day now.

#266 | Posted by RUFFALO_ROB a

Mueller left it up to you. He handed you evidence that trump colluded with putin and obstructed justice 10 times. Your cult responded by saying they don't care and he should continue to be trusted with the highest office in the land.

#268 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 05:38 PM | Reply

I choose a third team. Team constutution.
#84 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

This is the most unconvincing thing I've read in a long time.

#269 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No matter how thoroughly a story has fallen apart cult members like Speaksoftly will never let it go. But those who embrace fascism must cling to their false narratives.
#186 | POSTED BYBELLRINGER

Your willful ignorance is just as despicable now as it was last week.

Why do refuse to learn?

Time for you to swallow it.

#270 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 06:15 PM | Reply

Any politician who supported the insurrectionists before, on the sixth, or at any point since is going to lose in the face of the advertising campaign.

#271 | Posted by Tor at 2022-01-13 06:23 PM | Reply

Why do refuse to learn?

Then he wouldn't be able to troll.

#272 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 06:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

there are better words for it than troll or trolling.

meatpuppet and butt monkey for pay might be more accurate.

#273 | Posted by Tor at 2022-01-13 06:26 PM | Reply

"Its an appropriate response to your tireless ankle biting and willful misrepresentation of the facts."

Misrepresnting?

Generally, facts are facts. I think what you may mean is that I present facts that contradict your opinions.

#274 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:22 PM | Reply

"Republicans write laws to disenfranchise Democratic voters."

Really?

When?

How?

#275 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:22 PM | Reply

"If the electoral college, senate, supreme court, and white house weren't all tilted to favor your party, you couldnt compete."

You mean if it weren't for that pesky constitution thing?

#276 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:23 PM | Reply

"Now he's calling northern European social democracies fascists..."

No. I called them corporatist.

en.wikipedia.org

#277 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:27 PM | Reply

"Excellent example. The country wants BBB, but we can't have it because government is anti democratic and gives your cult massive electoral and political advantages."
"
You seem to want a country that doesn't exist. The US is a constitutional republic made up of 50 individual states. Hence the name, the "United States."

Your notion of democracy is not a reflection of the country as established under the constitution. Which means you seek an outcome that is unconstitutional. Which means you're at least as bad as a Trumper, and at least as much an enemy.

#278 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:30 PM | Reply

"Because we wont have democracy in 2022. We'll have fascism where the losing party can overturn the election. And fascists like you will still vote for them."

Stop The Steal!!!!!

#279 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:34 PM | Reply

Pretty much every pundit out there is saying that the Dems are going to be severly challenged in 2022, yet you claim that any loss will be the result of vote rigging.

You know who you sound like, right?

#280 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:35 PM | Reply

"Republicans write laws to disenfranchise Democratic voters."
Really?
When?
How?

#275 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER A

Georgia, March 2021

www.cnn.com

as an example

18 other states have passed new restrictions

#281 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 07:38 PM | Reply

"This is the most unconvincing thing I've read in a long time."

In what way?

#282 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:40 PM | Reply

you claim that any loss will be the result of vote rigging.
You know who you sound like, right?

I realize you're not paying attention and are only here to troll.

But, several states passed laws directly after the November 2020 election in order to obstruct voters, interfere with voting, and limit voting.

#283 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 07:41 PM | Reply

You seem to want a country that doesn't exist. The US is a constitutional republic made up of 50 individual states. Hence the name, the "United States."

Your notion of democracy is not a reflection of the country as established under the constitution. Which means you seek an outcome that is unconstitutional. Which means you're at least as bad as a Trumper, and at least as much an enemy.

#278 | Posted by madbomber

Yes I seek a notion of democracy where everyone is created equal, like it states in the constitution. Not where one person has thousands of times more political power because they were born in a rural wasteland than someone born in a modern city.

Trumpers want to maintain the ability of a minority to control the majority, even if they have to install fascism to do it.

The founders messed a lot of things up. One was slavery. Do you agree that slavery is bad, or should we have kept it since the founders gave it to us?

#284 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:43 PM | Reply

Stop The Steal!!!!!

#279 | Posted by madbomber

Trump 101 - accuse your opponent of your own crimes.

#285 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pretty much every pundit out there is saying that the Dems are going to be severly challenged in 2022, yet you claim that any loss will be the result of vote rigging.

You know who you sound like, right?

#280 | Posted by madbomber

Sane people reacting to facts.

Unlike trump when he says it because he's a con man pushing a lie.

And then you fight every day to help the con man beat the sane people, while denying your support the con man.

#286 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:45 PM | Reply

tucson.com

But the most sweeping provision would say that, regardless of any other law, the Legislature retains ultimate authority in deciding who the state's presidential electors are.

And it would spell out that lawmakers, by a simple majority, could revoke the formal certification of the election results and substitute their own decision at any time right up to the day a new president is inaugurated.

#287 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 07:45 PM | Reply

Really?
When?
How?
#275 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You seem unprepared for this discussion.

Perhaps not living in America impacts your access to information.

#288 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 07:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"as an example. 18 other states have passed new restrictions"

I'm familiar with Gerogia. The new standards in GA are now similar to those in other states. Blue states.

But all other things being equal, what GA voter in Georgia will no longer be permitted to vote in 2022?

#289 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:47 PM | Reply

"But, several states passed laws directly after the November 2020 election in order to obstruct voters, interfere with voting, and limit voting."

And many states have had even stricter rules since before 2020.

#290 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:48 PM | Reply

what GA voter in Georgia will no longer be permitted to vote in 2022?

#289 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Those voters who are no longer able to meet the more onerous voting requirements/obstructions.

Why does any voter have to wait hours to vote?

#291 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 07:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And many states have had even stricter rules since before 2020.

#290 | Posted by madbomber

How come your party's main electoral strategy is to try and prevent people from voting?

#292 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:50 PM | Reply

"Yes I seek a notion of democracy where everyone is created equal, like it states in the constitution."

The constitution states that each state gets two senators, and a number of electoral votes based on population. It's done this way becuase it's the United States of America...not the state of America.

What you want is largely immaterial. If you want to change the constitution, there are mechanisms to do so. But it's unlikely to happen.

#293 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:50 PM | Reply

-Why does any voter have to wait hours to vote?

The republicans banned mail service in Georgia?

#294 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 07:51 PM | Reply

as heinous as the new restrictions are, they pale in consideration to what republicans are doing to subvert the certification process, so when we have a close presidential vote like 2020 (like every presidential election will be for the forseeable future), the certification process will allow republicans to subvert the intent of the voters

#295 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 07:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trumpers want to maintain the ability of a minority to control the majority, even if they have to install fascism to do it."

There are also mechanisms in place to prevent deviations from constitutional law. And they worked. And they'll work again when someone like yourself is attempting to subvert the constitution.

#296 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:52 PM | Reply

"How come your party's main electoral strategy is to try and prevent people from voting?"

Your party controls New York, right? Delaware? New Jersey?

They all have stricter voting rules than GA.

#297 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 07:53 PM | Reply

The republicans banned mail service in Georgia?

#294 | POSTED BY EBERLY

------- sure tried in 2020 now didn't he?

#298 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 07:54 PM | Reply

And many states have had even stricter rules since before 2020.

#290 | Posted by madbomber

Name a blue state that passed laws allowing state legislatures to overturn the will of the voters if they dont like the results like red states are passing.

#299 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:54 PM | Reply

How come your party's main electoral strategy is to try and prevent people from voting?"

Your party controls New York, right? Delaware? New Jersey?

They all have stricter voting rules than GA.

#297 | Posted by madbomber

Name a blue state that is trying to make it harder for people to vote.

#300 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:55 PM | Reply

There are also mechanisms in place to prevent deviations from constitutional law. And they worked. And they'll work again when someone like yourself is attempting to subvert the constitution.

#296 | Posted by madbomber

Do you support slavery, or should we have subverted the constitution and ended it?

#301 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 07:56 PM | Reply

"Republicans write laws to disenfranchise Democratic voters."
Really?
When?
How?"

I mean that is just an astonishingly stupid question that could be answered with a simple google search. I'll provide a top of the head example even though it's not exactly what you asked for. Today in Wisconsin a red county judge who has donated to Republicans throughout his life ruled that ballot drop boxes are illegal and will be entering a statewide injunction against their use. The only rationale was that the law does not expressly say they can be used, and flies in the face of decades of state elections commission guidance. Data makes clear that Dem voters take the pandemic more seriously and prefer drop boxes to in person voting. The case was brought by a rightwing activist law firm. This ---- is happening all over the place and if you really don't know about it, that's on you and is not a reflection of reality.

#302 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 07:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I mean that is just an astonishingly stupid question

Well, he's sealioning.

Literally asking questions he and other trolls have asked and had answered, dozens of times already.

#303 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And three years from now turd like madbummer will support the theft of the presidency or be "on the fence" like beverly.

It is a foregone conclusion.

#304 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 08:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Name a blue state that passed laws allowing state legislatures to overturn the will of the voters if they dont like the results like red states are passing."

They didn't need to. The laws were already strict.

#305 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 08:07 PM | Reply

The laws were already strict.
#305 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

"In wut way?"

LOL

#306 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 08:15 PM | Reply

"Name a blue state that passed laws allowing state legislatures to overturn the will of the voters if they dont like the results like red states are passing."

They didn't need to. The laws were already strict.

#305 | Posted by madbomber

What evidence do you have that red states laws weren't strict enough, besides trump not winning?

#307 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 08:26 PM | Reply

"And three years from now turd like madbummer will support the theft of the presidency or be "on the fence" like beverly."

And 10 months from now you will be claiming any losses by the Democrats is the result of vote rigging.

#308 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 08:26 PM | Reply

@ RSTYBEACH11 don't debate with Russians block them.

#309 | Posted by Tor at 2022-01-13 08:26 PM | Reply

They didn't need to. The laws were already strict.
#305 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Is that why your boy Trump claimed millions of illegals in California voted for Hillary?

#310 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 08:29 PM | Reply

And 10 months from now you will be claiming any losses by the Democrats is the result of vote rigging.

#308 | Posted by madbomber

That's what happens when your cult spends years rigging the vote. People are going to point it out.

Questions you've dodged so far in just this thread:

What evidence do you have that red states laws weren't strict enough, besides trump not winning?

Do you support slavery, or should we have subverted the constitution and ended it?

Trump crippled NATO, putin's biggest obstacle. How come?

How come trump changed the republican platform to give ukraine to putin?

How come congress had to pass a bipartisan bill to prevent trump from lifting the sanctions on russia?

How come trump picked putin's favorite oil executive to be secretary of state?

How come trump pardoned the traitor who was funneling money from putin to the GOP?

How come putin, who wants to destroy america, does so much to help republicans?

#311 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 08:31 PM | Reply

-------- sure tried in 2020 now didn't he?

I wasn't handing out merit badges for trying.

#312 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 08:44 PM | Reply

-------- sure tried in 2020 now didn't he?

I wasn't handing out merit badges for trying.

#312 | Posted by eberly

No you were too busy helping fascists sell the lie that attempted insurrection isn't that big of a deal.

#313 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 08:45 PM | Reply

"Your party controls New York, right? Delaware? New Jersey?

They all have stricter voting rules than GA."

Is anybody going to challenge that?

If you're going to insist it's that hard to vote in Georgia and it turns out it's harder in New York, does that help your argument?

Seriously, I don't know if that's even true that voting laws are stricter in those states.

#314 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 08:49 PM | Reply

"No you were too busy helping fascists sell the lie that attempted insurrection isn't that big of a deal."

Oh, I must be tired then.
And thirsty. Need a few fingers of woodford to quench ... .

#315 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 08:51 PM | Reply

I wasn't handing out merit badges for trying.
#312 | POSTED BY EBERLY A

More like you were handing out Das Hitler-Jugend-Abzeichen.

#316 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 09:02 PM | Reply

You guys were just born about 90 years too late. And in the wrong place.

You all would have made excellent additions to Team Beria.

A fellow leftist, he also considered anyone who disagreed with the progressive way forward as a fascist. And he even got to kill them. Or rape them, if they were women fascists.

Apparently, the cute ones were always fascist.

#317 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 09:16 PM | Reply

"More like you were handing out Das Hitler-Jugend-Abzeichen."

Spoken like a true Young Pioneer.

#318 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 09:16 PM | Reply

316

did he call me a nazi?

oh, man....does that really piss me off.

#319 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 10:03 PM | Reply

316
did he call me a nazi?
oh, man....does that really piss me off.

#319 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Truth Hurts Donut

Not my fault you sympathize with nazis by considering them a marginalized group.

#320 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:06 PM | Reply

A fellow leftist, he also considered anyone who disagreed with the progressive way forward as a fascist. And he even got to kill them. Or rape them, if they were women fascists.

Apparently, the cute ones were always fascist.

#317 | Posted by madbomber

"Disagree" = violent coup attempt to replace democracy with fascism.

Funny how you can use one little word like that to try and hide a giant crime that the whole world witnessed, and you think anyone is dumb enough to buy it.

Anyone that stupid is already in your cult.

And yes moron, anyone who wanted to or attempted to replace democracy with fascism IS A FASCIST.

Hope you have the stamina to keep trying to convince people there's nothing wrong with a fascist coup attempt for the rest of your life.

#321 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 11:56 AM | Reply

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