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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, January 13, 2022

Leader of Oath Keepers and 10 Other Individuals Indicted in Federal Court for Seditious Conspiracy and Other Offenses Related to U.S. Capitol Breach: A federal grand jury in the District of Columbia returned an indictment yesterday, which was unsealed today, charging 11 defendants with seditious conspiracy and other charges for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, which disrupted a joint session of the U.S. Congress that was in the process of ascertaining and counting the electoral votes related to the presidential election. According to court documents, Elmer Stewart Rhodes III, 56, of Granbury, Texas, who is the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers; and Edward Vallejo, 63, of Phoenix, Arizona, are being charged for the first time in connection with events leading up to and including Jan. 6. Rhodes was arrested this morning in Little Elm, Texas, and Vallejo was arrested this morning in Phoenix.

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Here is the indictment listing those charged and the charges against them:
www.justice.gov

#1 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-13 02:12 PM | Reply

Is this the sedition charge Republicans have been looking for?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

... seditious conspiracy ...

This is starting to sound serious.

18 U.S. Code 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
www.law.cornell.edu

...If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both....


#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 02:17 PM | Reply

Has Trump offered to pay their legal bills yet?

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 02:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Lousy timing for McCarthy to turn down talking to the January 6th commission.

#5 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-13 02:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I don't have the time at the moment to read the whole indictment, but I did get up to page 11.

Woof. This is serious. Very serious.

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 02:22 PM | Reply

#4

Considering the GOP is paying Trump's legal bills and nothing is coming out of Trump's pocket, then yes. Republican donors are paying the seditionist's legal bills.

#7 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2022-01-13 02:28 PM | Reply

There goes that ridiculous talking point/deflection.

#8 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-13 02:33 PM | Reply

@#8 ... that ridiculous talking point/deflection. ...

Which one?

#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 02:38 PM | Reply

Finishing reading the rest of Count 1.

It sure does not sound like a spontaneous tourist visit by all those involved.

Tourists, among other things, do not usually have a heavily armed Quick Response Force stationed 10 minutes away for backup.

Spontaneous visitors do not plan months in advance via encrypted chat and email.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 02:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

This is the lower rung of indictments.

The paper bag full of water Trump carries is breaking.

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2022-01-13 03:06 PM | Reply

@#11 ... This is the lower rung of indictments. ...

I'd tend to agree.

This is the first significant step up the chain of command for indictments.


#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Play stupid games ... .win stupid prizes.

#13 | Posted by Nixon at 2022-01-13 03:11 PM | Reply

Good! About time...

Now rinse, recycle, and repeat
to all the other 'Captains of the
Would Be Insurrection'...

They have to suffer a penalty.
They have to learn there are real world
consequences.

If not, then all the hearings have
been for naught.

#14 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-01-13 03:20 PM | Reply

A ham sandwich was also indicted.

#15 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-13 03:22 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#15
You lie.

#16 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2022-01-13 03:28 PM | Reply

Ray Epps and the FBI should be indicted with this guy and the ham sandwich.

#17 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-13 03:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

@#17 ... should be indicted with this guy ...

Eleven people were indicted.


What evidence do you have, besides Fox News "reporting," to indict the others you want to have indicted?

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 03:47 PM | Reply

Well, there's the Glenn Greenwald article stating Trump's FBI was part of, or possibly the mastermind of, the insurrection.

Somehow that's supposed to make the Democrats look bad...

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 03:49 PM | Reply

Another piece of the puzzle filled in by the DOJ.

Still slow af, but this is a step in the right direction.

The good news here is that their due diligence has been done - these indictments are VERY specific and guaranteed to have receipts that make them stick. Builds on the case against the Traitor-in-Chief and his band of treasonous clowns.

#20 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-13 03:50 PM | Reply

Visitor supports insurrectionist traitors. What a surprise.

Any other rightwingers gonna defend this guy?

#21 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 03:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It would have been better for the nation had this indictment come down six months ago. The national discourse and discussion, especially as played by right wing media, would have been forced to acknowledge that indeed there are sound legal grounds for calling the acts of Jan 6 "sedition", not just a riot. It is harder to make any honest analogies with BLM or even Antifa protests once the Justice Department has founded solid felony charges of sedition against one of the leaders of the Big Lie movement.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-01-13 04:02 PM | Reply

Visitor supports insurrectionist traitors. What a surprise.

Any other rightwingers gonna defend this guy?

#21 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-01-13 03:58 PM | FLAG:

Not necessarily. But he sure drinks a lot of Kool-Aid. He's always got the latest RW talking point ready to go. Some nobody named Ray Epps is the fall guy du jour.

#23 | Posted by cbob at 2022-01-13 04:08 PM | Reply

Lousy timing for McCarthy to turn down talking to the January 6th commission.

Now journalists get to ask republicans if they are trying to cover up the seditious conspiracy.

#24 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2022-01-13 04:09 PM | Reply

A PRO-TRUMP MILITANT GROUP HAS RECRUITED THOUSANDS OF POLICE, SOLDIERS, AND VETERANS
An Atlantic investigation reveals who they are and what they might do on Election Day.

By Mike Giglio
NOVEMBER 2020 ISSUE

www.theatlantic.com

It's not like there wasn't any warning....

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 04:10 PM | Reply

#21

I am especially amused by the "whatabout the made up conspiracy theory being forwarded by fox "news" to try to point the finger at an FBI bogeyman instead of the actual traitors?" line that these clowns have all glommed onto. I'm sure they'll find all the info they need about Epps on Hunter Biden's laptop, lol.

#26 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-13 04:14 PM | Reply

@#22 ... It would have been better for the nation had this indictment come down six months ago. ...

Yes and no.

The nation might have looked at it differently with January 6, 2021 firmer in memory.

But, the nation might not have been happy when the cases were thrown out of court because the evidence was incomplete.



#27 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 04:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ray Epps and the FBI should be indicted with this guy and the ham sandwich.

#17 | Posted by visitor_

When the FBI is busting fascists, fascists want the FBI to get busted.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

No mention on the Fox website.

I wonder if had been a Democrat in office.........hmmmmmmm.

#29 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-13 04:25 PM | Reply

Hang them.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-01-13 04:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

the FBI should be indicted with this guy and the ham sandwich.

#17 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

So you are saying that not only did Trump encourage his supporters to attack the Capitol but he also had the FBI under his direction help insight the crowd?

#31 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-01-13 04:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#31 That's what Glenn Greenwald says too.

According to right-wingers, he's the only sane lib.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:41 PM | Reply

No mention on the Fox website.

I wonder if had been a Democrat in office.........hmmmmmmm.

#29 | Posted by brass30

Isn't that something? This is 'news,' but Fox "News" doesn't really do "news."

Just a bunch of breathless nonsense and no mention of this on their website.

#33 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2022-01-13 04:42 PM | Reply

It would have been better for the nation had this indictment come down six months ago.

Supply chain issues caused a slight delay in deliver [of charges].

#34 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2022-01-13 04:46 PM | Reply

Hang them.
#30 | POSTED BYSITZKRIEG

Nah. The 20 year max is enough, IMO.

Nice to know you're interested in justice, though.

#36 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 04:54 PM | Reply

"When are they going to arrest the guy handing out water bottles?"

Not until the next Georgia election.

Ask "BellRinger" why that's necessary to protect democracy.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 04:57 PM | Reply

***standing ovation ***

#38 | Posted by ABH at 2022-01-13 05:00 PM | Reply

The charges sound serious. If the prosecution can't back them up ...

#39 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 05:01 PM | Reply

Among the indicted are Roberto Minuta and Joshua Jones. Both men were met with Roger Stone on Jan 5. Minuta is seen in a video from the morning of Jan 6 appearing with Stone and Rudy Giuliani.

#40 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-01-13 05:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When are they going to arrest the guy handing out water bottles?

#35 | Posted by RUFFALO_ROB

Is that the same cult member who planted the pipe bombs?

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 05:05 PM | Reply

This is a nothingberder.

~ The putrid orange jizzfart ~

#42 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2022-01-13 05:06 PM | Reply

The charges sound serious. If the prosecution can't back them up ...

#39 | Posted by BellRinger

The can back them up by going on youtube and watching the footage you pretend doesn't exist.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 05:06 PM | Reply

"When are they going to arrest the guy handing out water bottles?"

Not until the next Georgia election.

Ask "BellRinger" why that's necessary to protect democracy.

#37 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2022-01-13 04:57 PM | FLAG:

Obviously the concern over the water bottles is that the libs will fill them up with lib juice, which of course is chai tea loaded with Chinese soy and estrogen, turning the voters waiting in line into obedient commie Dems.

#44 | Posted by cbob at 2022-01-13 05:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

libs will fill them up with lib juice

I charge a lot for my lib juice.

But it comes with sliced lemons and cucumbers.

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 05:22 PM | Reply

#20 | Posted by chuffy

This is a slow roll just to be thorough IMHO because they are going to carefully work their way to the top of this cesspool and we all know who is there.

But then again, given what they have had to dig through I am not surprised it took a year. We just live in an instant gratification world today.

#46 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2022-01-13 05:25 PM | Reply

If the prosecution can't back them up ...
#39 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

You have permission to go ahead and finish that statement.

#47 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 05:25 PM | Reply

Nah. The 20 year max is enough, IMO.

#36 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2022-01-13 04:54 PM | FLAG:

20 max? You're kidding right? The Feds gave a guy 90 years for conspiring to transport 100 pounds of pot.

#48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-01-13 05:27 PM | Reply

#48 | POSTED BYSITZKRIEG

Was he non-white? I bet he was nonwhite.

#49 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 05:28 PM | Reply

Only twenty years for betraying your country? I do believe it was during a time of war and that my friends is a capital offense. Hang em high!

#50 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2022-01-13 05:32 PM | Reply

This is great news. I disagree with the slow AF comments regarding Justice. Investigators had many terabytes of video and phone data to sift through. That needs to be completed before you start charging people. As soon as you charge somebody, they can refuse to waive their speedy trial requirement and make the prosecutor go to trial before they're ready. Then defense can claim there is all kinds of exculpatory information among those terabytes of information claim a Brady violation and get the prosecutors sanctioned. Even the FBI and DOJ don't have unlimited resources or manpower, somebody has to watch every single video, and look at every page of data. A year until the most serious charges are filed is lightning fast in the context of a massive investigation such as this one. It appears DOJ is now ready to start charging the heavy hitters with serious crimes, I'd look for more like this in the coming weeks, hopefully to include Meadows, Bannon, Stone, Ghoulianni, Eastman, Ellis, etc on the way to Dotard. This recent angle that Maddow is reporting on, the fraudulent alternate slates of electors, as part of the larger plot from Eastman and Ellis seems very promising, especially when combined with Ghoulianni's voicemail intended for Senator CTE Tuberville about needing more time, for what?

#51 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2022-01-13 05:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

disagree with the slow AF comments regarding Justice.

#51 | Posted by _Gunslinger_

Democrats have to choose between quick justice or NO justice.

Repubs will shut this all down in less than a year.

#52 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 05:37 PM | Reply

Repubs will shut this all down in less than a year.
#52 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

How are they going to shutdown ongoing FBI investigations?

#53 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2022-01-13 05:39 PM | Reply

#51 | POSTED BY _GUNSLINGER_ AT 2022-01-13 05:34 PM | REPLY | FLAG

I like to think there are some boots being quaked in right about now.

#54 | Posted by cbob at 2022-01-13 05:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How are they going to shutdown ongoing FBI investigations?

#53 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

They'll shut down the congressional investigations, start impeachment of biden for nothing, and slow down the FBI investigations enough so that no member of trump's fascist coup team sees the inside of a prison cell before trump is re elected and pardons them all. Including himself. And his rigged supreme court will allow it.

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 06:05 PM | Reply

treat him same as we treated those who helped john wilkes booth.

hang him and everyone else who engaged in violent treason or even helped others do so.

why am I not against the death penalty?

Because of situations like this where there is no question of what they did or that they would remain a threat even in prison.

#56 | Posted by Tor at 2022-01-13 06:07 PM | Reply

55

That's what you see after the mid-terms?

#57 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 06:08 PM | Reply

#57 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I tend to agree with 55. All the crazy ---- that libs were passing around in 2020, and sane conservatives brushed off as just "fearmongering", bore fruit. Trump DID attempt to pass of conflicting electors and get the election thrown to the House where he was sure he would come up the winner after clearly losing the election. So even though post 55 sounds a big outlandish in any previous administration, I would have to say nothing is too crazy for the GOP at this point.

#58 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2022-01-13 06:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I'm not disagreeing with him but he didn't answer Johnny either regarding FBI investigations.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 06:31 PM | Reply

That's what you see after the mid-terms?

#57 | Posted by eberly

No one has ever gone broke betting on modern republicans selling their souls to trump.

#60 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 06:32 PM | Reply

- nothing is too crazy for the GOP at this point.

They eat crazy for breakfast!

And poop it on everyone else the rest of the day.

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 06:37 PM | Reply

People talking about mid-terms makes me think of this:

www.youtube.com

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 06:41 PM | Reply

"This recent angle that Maddow is reporting on, the fraudulent alternate slates of electors, as part of the larger plot from Eastman and Ellis seems very promising, especially when combined with Ghoulianni's voicemail intended for Senator CTE Tuberville about needing more time, for what?"

Trump tried to call Tuberville too during the insurrection but got Mike Lee who handed the phone to Tuberville:

As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election

www.cnn.com

#63 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-13 06:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

SEDITION!

www.youtube.com

#64 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 06:48 PM | Reply

" Trump tried to call senators to overturn election"

How could that possibly be called a coup attempt?
--Eberly

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 06:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#63 Also regarding Tuberville:

Photos put Tuberville in Trump's hotel on Jan. 5 despite denying meeting

The photos and Facebook post put Tuberville, Donald Trump Jr., Peter Navarro, Rudy Giuliani and others at the Trump hotel on Jan. 5.

www.alreporter.com

#66 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-13 06:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#63 ... the fraudulent alternate slates of electors, ...

Seems fmr CoS Meadows was involved in that as well.

#67 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 06:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

52 and 55

Don't rule out the possibility that DOJ appoints "special counsel" to take over J6.

#68 | Posted by et_al at 2022-01-13 07:11 PM | Reply

- Tuberville, Donald Trump Jr., Peter Navarro, Rudy Giuliani and others at the Trump hotel on Jan. 5.

Did we keep those gallows built for Mike Pence?

Maybe they'll come in handy after all.

... think they're around here somewhere...

#69 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 07:14 PM | Reply

Florida man Kenneth Harrelson, Titusville, FL is charged with seditious conspiracy, along with other charges.
Florida man Kelly Meggs, Dunnellon, FL is charged with seditious conspiracy, along with other charges.

#70 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-13 07:49 PM | Reply

This is a slow roll just to be thorough IMHO because they are going to carefully work their way to the top of this cesspool and we all know who is there.

Yeah, and technically, this is moving pretty fast...for the DOJ.

But then again, given what they have had to dig through I am not surprised it took a year. We just live in an instant gratification world today.

Typically, cases are built from the bottom up, and there were thousands of people there...even with an expanded force, there are still too many people to act on given the resources available at the DOJ. And the DOJ is notoriously slow anyway, but building the case starting with the small-timers is what they're apparently doing...and this is a good thing. Like I said in my comment, they have the receipts, it's how the DOJ builds their cases. I'm still impatient, but also understand that getting it right is going to make or break this country.

#71 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-13 07:57 PM | Reply

@#71 ... Typically, cases are built from the bottom up, ...

Yup.

I watched as the indictments went from misdemeanors, to felonies, and now to sedition.

It is how the DoJ has operated and will continue to operate.

What's next after sedition?


#72 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:15 PM | Reply

(Gunslinger spells it out pretty comprehensively above in #51)

I'm impatient. I wanted us to strike while the iron was hot...happy to see this development, though. My biggest concern is time. We don't have a lot of it before the rat f'ers do it again.

#73 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-13 08:17 PM | Reply

@#68 ... Don't rule out the possibility that DOJ appoints "special counsel" to take over J6. ...

It would be an interesting way to possibly side-step a change of hands holding the reins of Congress in 2022.

#74 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It would be an interesting way to possibly side-step a change of hands holding the reins of Congress in 2022.

#74 | Posted by LampLighter

Yeah a special counsel really worked great last time.

Found a pile of evidence of crimes. Left it to congress to act. Republican congress refused.

#75 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-13 08:28 PM | Reply

Fox "News" still hasn't mentioned these charges on their website:
www.foxnews.com<>

#76 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-13 08:48 PM | Reply

@#75 ... Republican congress refused. ...

Do not forget that the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee also did and investigation, and published a report that was far more damning of fmr Pres Trump than anything Mr Mueller published.

But yeah, I do agree that the Republicans, if they win Congress in 2022, will not act nearly as responsibly as those that have preceded them. (the Benghazi thing being an outlier...)

"Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right?" McCarthy said on Fox News. "But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she's untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not fought."

#77 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:49 PM | Reply

It's probably already been mentioned, but it's a bit ironic that a group who appears to be chartered in favor of the defense of the constitution were actively trying to undermine the document they claimed to be protecting.

There was literally no constitutional way Trump was going to stay in office.

#78 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 09:33 PM | Reply

"What's next after sedition?"

Treason.

#79 | Posted by madbomber at 2022-01-13 09:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good...we are finally, Finally, FINALLY,
getting to the 'run and grab the
popcorn' portion of watching this drama
unfold. Seriously, hang them high as traitors,
or televise a firing squad when they are found guilty. I'm not a violent man at all, but I'd watch them put to death and consider it my patriotic duty after watching how they beat on the Capitol Police!

#80 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-01-13 09:45 PM | Reply

The Oath Keepers is just one such group trying to undermine the Constitution... there are other para-military groups like them, but also there are the politicians who courted violent white nationalist authoritarian rwingers aka fascists, with both rhetoric and policies, encouraged their violence, and incited their actions.

You know, like the once and still Leader of the Republican Party.

#81 | Posted by Corky at 2022-01-13 10:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah a special counsel really worked great last time.
Found a pile of evidence of crimes. Left it to congress to act.

It worked out as well as it could given the parameters Mueller had to work within. He indicted and prosecuted those he could.

Those parameters will not restrict a J6 special counsel.

#82 | Posted by et_al at 2022-01-13 10:06 PM | Reply

"What's next after sedition?"
Treason.
#79 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

There will be no Treason prosecutions. None, zip, nada. The reason is because what happened on J6 fits neither the Constitutional nor the statutory definition of Treason.

So, give it up, all of you. It ain't happenin.

#83 | Posted by et_al at 2022-01-13 10:12 PM | Reply

The charges sound serious. If the prosecution can't back them up ...
#39 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2022-01-13 05:01 PM

They have encrypted messages members exchanged. Also some of the Oath Keepers have flipped. We'll see if those receipts are enough to convince future juries.

#84 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-13 11:22 PM | Reply

What's next after sedition?

#72 | Posted by LampLighter

Depends on how fast and how loud those charged with sedition sing.

#85 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-13 11:34 PM | Reply

There was literally no constitutional way Trump was going to stay in office.

#78 | Posted by madbomber

If there was then it wouldn't have been an insurrection/coup.

Which is what we've been saying to you for a year...

#86 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-13 11:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

f there was then it wouldn't have been an insurrection/coup.

Which is what we've been saying to you for a year...

#86 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-01-13 11:35 PM

I know, right. One thousand times worse than 9/11. Which therapy animal have you chosen to help cope? I went with a Tasmanian Devil. Cute little fella, just gotta keep the fingers from being mauled.

#87 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 11:39 PM | Reply

Just STFU ------.

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-13 11:46 PM | Reply

Are you going to cry?

I had a wolverine lined up but he was a bit too rambunctious. If you need to cope I can probably line him up for therapy work. Just make sure you don't have any small pets like a Rotweiller.

#89 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 11:52 PM | Reply

There was literally no constitutional way Trump was going to stay in office.
#78 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You should try reading the Constitution. And the Eastman Memo.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 11:53 PM | Reply

Are you going to cry?

Yeah. I'm gonna cry because you're showing what a complete pile of worthless ---- you've become.

Your primary BS talking point/deflection gets scuttled and you still have to shart all over this thread with your objective stupidity.

Seriously, just ---- off. You're not wanted here. You're not trying to contribute anymore because what "contributions" you made are blatant ---------. You've become that annoying dumb---- who still thinks giving wet willies or throwing farts is still funny while everyone does their best to avoid you.

#91 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:05 AM | Reply

#91 You are good at alcohol-fueled rants. I have to acknowledge that. Juvenile, but funny.

everyone does their best to avoid you.

#91 | POSTED BY JPW

You do your best to avoid me because I poke annoying holes in your stupid little narratives. Kamala Harris equated 1/6 with Pearl Harbor and 9/11.

This is a mainstream leftist at HuffPo:

"United 93 was intended to crash into the capitol. You think January 6th was worse than that?"

Reponse: "1000% percent"

ZERO pushback from any left-leaning outlets. None.

#92 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 12:14 AM | Reply

"They have encrypted messages members exchanged. Also some of the Oath Keepers have flipped. We'll see if those receipts are enough to convince future juries."

Oh, yeah, they also have video. Lots of video, including from security cameras at the hotel the seditionists stayed at which show the gun cases they brought with them:

twitter.com

twitter.com

#93 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 12:16 AM | Reply

"You're not wanted here."

Why don't you advocate for me to be censored and banned (you probably have behind the scenes). That is what limp-waisted lefties are into these days - too pussified to engage in debate, so you cry to authority and seek censorship.

#94 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 12:17 AM | Reply

You do your best to avoid me because I poke annoying holes in your stupid little narratives.

Only in your pathetic, ignorant, ---- thinking mind.

I don't care what Harris said (I've made it clear I'm not a fan of her) nor am I responsible for what "left-leaning outlets" do or don't do.

Attributing random stupidity to someone is not only a strawman but is lazy, pathetic thinking.

BTW 91 has nothing to do with alcohol. It has everything to do with the pathetic, intellectually dishonest, whiny little snatch you've proven yourself to be.

#95 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:18 AM | Reply

Why don't you advocate for me to be censored and banned (you probably have behind the scenes).

Get over yourself, --------. I have zero desire to waste that level of time on you.

That is what limp-waisted lefties are into these days - too pussified to engage in debate, so you cry to authority and seek censorship.

#94 | Posted by BellRinger

What you do isn't debate.

Debate requires honesty and critical thought. Two things you are completely devoid of and have no interest in changing.

#96 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:20 AM | Reply

Attributing random stupidity to someone is not only a strawman but is lazy, pathetic thinking.

Amen! We finally agree on something. Problem is you engage in this behavior with alarming frequency. Take you own advice.

#97 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 12:27 AM | Reply

Some of the video the seditionists helpfully took themselves:

Reading this Oath Keepers indictment.

These posts on TheDonald from January 5th make a lot more sense now.

The plan was to go all night and transport in the guns later, once they felt they had control over the Capitol.

twitter.com

#98 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 12:29 AM | Reply

No, I don't.

You just take my general descriptions to be about you.

Not sure why...it's almost as if you have a guilty conscience or something.

#99 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:29 AM | Reply

BTW 91 has nothing to do with alcohol. It has everything to do with the pathetic, intellectually dishonest, whiny little snatch you've proven yourself to be.

#95 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2022-01-14 12:18 AM

Can you please rephrase that into something coherent? Honestly, I don't understand what you are saying - that's not a swipe

#100 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 12:29 AM | Reply

-BTW 91 has nothing to do with alcohol.

Really? It would be better if it did.

#101 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:37 AM | Reply

-Seriously, just ---- off. You're not wanted here.

LOL

#102 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:38 AM | Reply

#101 No ----

#103 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 12:38 AM | Reply

Really? It would be better if it did.

#101 | Posted by eberly

Why? An honest assessment was made.

Bell has followed Mao and others like a good little beta and is posting nothing more than bad troll attempts, even on the thread where his primary ----------- deflection ("how come no one has been charged with sedition?") gets blown out of the water.

#104 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:45 AM | Reply

LOL

#102 | Posted by eberly

Awwwww Ebs is trying to white knight for Bellringer. How cute.

#105 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:46 AM | Reply

I'm just trying to figure out why you're enraged.

#106 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:48 AM | Reply

Enraged? Nah.

Just tired of the -------- from intellectually vacuous posters who stomped out of here in a tizzy months ago.

Who even after their ----------- talking point gets blatantly disproven have nothing to offer but stupidity and straw.

Any level of mea culpa? Nope. Will we get any? Probably not.

#107 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:50 AM | Reply

You are enraged.

"Any level of mea culpa? Nope. Will we get any? Probably not.

You want an apology?

You? What for?

#108 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:53 AM | Reply

Still nope. Stick to commenting on things you can prove or know for sure.

You want an apology?

Look up what mea culpa means.

#109 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 12:54 AM | Reply

109

SMH

#110 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:58 AM | Reply

-Any level of mea culpa? Nope. Will we get any? Probably not.

What do "we" want?

#111 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:58 AM | Reply

-posting nothing more than bad troll attempts,

I saw him rub your 9-11 comparison in your face and you took it personal.

#112 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 01:00 AM | Reply

JPW wants a mea culpa for having his nose rubbed in his own feces? Get over yourself!

#113 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 01:04 AM | Reply

If the seditionists (Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, 3%ers) had succeeded in accomplishing their plans, it would have rivaled 9/11. They were out to kill Pence and Pelosi, for example, and anyone else, especially what they called the RINOs and DINOs in Congress. You don't go suited up with helmets and protective vests and have firearms stored nearby in a QRF for no reason. And what about those pipe bombs outside the RNC and the DNC, the latter of which could have gone off when VP-elect Harris was in the DNC headquarters?

#114 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 01:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#114 Yet, where were they on the critical day?

A lone madman injured (and nearly killed) more congressmen than this supposedly deadly "insurrectionists" even came close to doing.

#115 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 01:22 AM | Reply

Oh, and before anyone says, but the seditionists were only a small part of the crowd on 1/6, the riling up the crowd, who the seditionists referred to as "normies" was part of their plan. In fact, they needed the crowd that day so that they could blend in with them as the attack occurred:

Good @emptywheel post on how most of the people who stormed the Capitol were "normies" acting spontaneously but there were smaller groups who had premeditation and violent intentions (including, in some cases, intentions to incite those "normies")

twitter.com

#116 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 01:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I saw him rub your 9-11 comparison in your face and you took it personal.

#112 | Posted by eberly

Let's rehash things, shall we?

1. Politically motivated morons attacked their own capitol on 1/6 to overturn a fair, free election because they didn't like the result.

2. Since then we have progressively learned that this wasn't spontaneous.

3. We've seen documents from the outgoing administration outlining a strategy to subvert the process and maintain power.

4. We've now seen documents showing this effort spread to state level officials.

5. Throughout that discovery process, -----------, mealy-mouthed supporters have done nothing but deflect, rationalize and distort the fact that it was the first time our capitol had been seized since 1812 and the first time our country was attacked at scale by it's own citizens since 1864.

6. Now, upon reading that the leaders are being charged with sedition, something they staked a claim on not happening, they don't acknowledge that or even acknowledge the significance of sedition charges being leveled. They resort to trolling with straw men and further distortions.

Your response? To whine about the expectation that you show some intellectual honesty. Probably because it's easier than admitting you're a traitorous piece of ----.

#117 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 01:27 AM | Reply

JPW wants a mea culpa for having his nose rubbed in his own feces? Get over yourself!

#113 | Posted by BellRinger

Hey --------.

These -------- being charged with sedition supports my positions.

And proves the fragility of yours.

There's no feces to be rubbed in.

#118 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 01:28 AM | Reply

#115 | Posted by BellRinger

As expected you're brushing this off with the rationalization that they didn't succeed.

Do you realize how ------- stupid that is?

Of course you don't. You were always gonna jump to the next rationalization no matter what happens.

Because in the end you support 1/6. The only problem with that day was it failed.

#119 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 01:30 AM | Reply

"#114 Yet, where were they on the critical day?"

That's what indictments today have begun to reveal. Some of the Oath Keepers went in search of Pence, some Pelosi. Fortunately, they were safely evacuated in the nick of time. And you saw how close they came to confronting Romney, in particular, and other Senators as well. Babbitt got shot because she was trying to enter the House chamber while members were still inside.

#120 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 01:30 AM | Reply

#120 Fine. Let it play out. After 3 years of Russia collusion -------- I'm skeptical as this seems like a rerun. After watching our politicians and media cast this as on par (at best) with 9/11 I am increasingly skeptical. I am not dismissing this until it has reason to be dismissed. By the same token I'm feeling serious de ja vu signals from all of the same cast of characters who constantly assured us "the walls were closing in". It ended up being a scandalous political hoax and an affront on Democracy.

#121 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 01:36 AM | Reply

#117 I would think after being totally duped by the Steele Dossier you would be hesitant to leap to quick conclusions. Ever heard of the term "confirmation bias"?

#122 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 01:38 AM | Reply

After 3 years of Russia collusion --------

Another topic you regularly misrepresent.

Even the damn GOP on the Senate Intelligence Committee signed off on a multi-volume report describing cooperation and communication between Trump campaign members and Russian intelligence assets. But you remain latched on to a single FBI lawyer who doctored one report to ignore the whole thing.

Your forte is missing the forest for a single partisan tree.

Ever heard of the term "confirmation bias"?

You demonstrate it constantly.

Don't bother arguing this point further. This thread isn't about Russian investigations, it's about your talking point being blown to hell.

#123 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 02:03 AM | Reply

#123 Was any of that criminal?

Compare that with the cooperation and communication between the Democratic Party, FBI, DOJ and Clinton campaign with Michael Steele and how it was used by the FBI and DOJ as well as our major media outlets (after Buzzfeed published it). Talk about collusion and coordination! But you are incapable of seeing it.

it's about your talking point being blown to hell.

Internet tough guy falsely claiming victory.

#124 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 02:09 AM | Reply

Internet tough guy falsely claiming victory.

#124 | Posted by BellRinger

The constant dodge has been the nature of the charges brought against the 1/6 --------.

We now have leaders being charged with sedition.

And you act as if it's nothing.

Your leg was cut out from underneath you and you don't even have the decency of acknowledging the flesh wound.

#125 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-14 02:28 AM | Reply

Bellringer, you sure look like dishonest lying idiot. That or far worse. You should just stop.
Your "best" argument so far is that the coup d'etat failed, so it wasn't as bad as WW2.
"Oh, but judge, yes, we tried to rob the bank, but we failed, so why are we being charged with anything? It just wasn't that bad!"
You add all this up with the forged "electoral slates" from 5-6 States, with Republican signatures, and you have a lot of explaining to do.

In the meantime Republicans are doing all they can to lay the groundwork for a bloodless coup.

Your party is planning the destruction of the United States as a Republic, and you're whining about whether this is as bad as 9/11?

As I said, just stop. "Dishonest lying idiot" isn't a good look for anyone.

#126 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 07:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Was he non-white? I bet he was nonwhite.

#49 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2022-01-13 05:28 PM | REPLY

That particular case was, but Dr. Christie was facing 40 years for conspiracy to distribute cannabis as recent as 2014 and he's very, very white. He copped a plea and got 5 years + probation.

So even if you are white, trafficking a harmless plant is doubly bad as a sedition conspiracy... what? lol

#127 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-01-14 07:48 AM | Reply

Gal - great points, and thanks for laying them all out:

fraudulent alternate slates of electors
This is amazing. These Republican idiots, most of them actually elected legislators, put their names on forged documents, and sent them to the National Archives trying to overturn the VOTERS decision! The National Archives has sent some (all?) of the documents back to the States and said "You ought to be aware of this." This is clearly illegal, and every single one of these folks should be kicked out of their State legislator seats, or/and banned from running for office or being involved in politics ever again,

Gal, these three lines from your posts - oh boy!

These posts on TheDonald from January 5th make a lot more sense now.
Way more - and wow. These indictments are looking more like the start of the big rollup.

The plan was to go all night and transport in the guns later, once they felt they had control over the Capitol.
So much for all those right-wing posters saying "there weren't any weapons! BLM was bad. Waaah! Waaah!"

If the seditionists (Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, 3%ers) had succeeded in accomplishing their plans, it would have rivaled 9/11.
I'm going to state flat out that had they succeeded it would have been much, much worse than 9/11. 9/11 we got our nose bloodied. Had this succeeded with Trump and the Republicans conspiring to install Trump we would have lost our Constitutional Republic. Something those terrorists never could have acheived.

#128 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 08:23 AM | Reply

Yav, most of what I've posted so far comes from the indictments themselves, so DOJ has some receipts. If more receipts will ever be found to support something like this speculation, I can't say:

MARK MEADOWS PROMISED THE KIND OF NATIONAL GUARD PROTECTION THAT PROUD BOY CHARLES DONOHOE SEEMED TO EXPECT

[W]hen Proud Boy Charles Donohoe saw a public report about the Guard being called in at 3:45 PM of on the day of the riot (these texts reflect the Washington State time zone in which Ethan Nordean's phone was seized), he responded with surprise that the Guard would "attack ... Trump supporters."

If Meadows had a hand in alerting the Proud Boys that they would not face any response from the Guard, it would go a long way to explaining how they planned their operation in the way they did.

It also might explain why, minutes after Donohoe had just reported, minutes earlier, that "we are regrouping with a second force," that second assault was abandoned.

As some of the bullets make clear, Mark Meadows had advance warning from organizers that things would get violent on January 6. And as the riot developed, he was in constant communication with Kash Patel, the Chief of Staff at the Defense Department that proved unwilling to deploy to protect the Capitol.

And it's just possible he shared information that was central to the expectations of and plans by the militia that organized the assault.


www.emptywheel.net

We haven't seen seditious conspiracy charges against any Proud Boys yet, so those indictments and receipts for them would be the first necessary step.

#129 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 08:45 AM | Reply

It's just stunning, Gal. Absolutely stunning. I have to try at stay focused on the indictment, though.

Where the hell is this going? You better believe that is incentive for those Republicans involved to make sure we do lose our Republic. If we lose this Republic all this is over.

#130 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 08:50 AM | Reply

#130 Yes, I agree.

#131 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 08:57 AM | Reply

Yav-

CNN's John Berman and Brianna Keilar interviewed CNN counterterrorism analyst Phil Mudd on Friday morning.

"You know, Phil, you have been an investigator before," Berman said. "You have been in the trenches here. What's the evidence that jumps out at you?"

"The time involved in preparations for this, the fact that there are " the amount of weapons acquired in advance, the fact that people are using specific language that indicates this they were coordinating," he replied. "They're not just talking about breaking a window in the Capitol. They're talking about civil war in America."

www.rawstory.com

#132 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-14 08:57 AM | Reply

MORE

The Daily Beast revealed Monday that Navarro's book cites Steve Bannon as a cohort in a "hail Mary" attempt to stop the election certification. Further, Navarro confessed that he coordinated with Republican members of Congress to do it. The claim could explain the apology text message that Mark Meadows turned over to the committee reading "I'm sorry" and "we tried."

The co-conspirators even named the mission, calling it "the Green Bay Sweep." When discussing it in an interview with the Beast, he named Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ) and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) as officials who helped spearhead the effort.

www.rawstory.com

emphasis mine.

#133 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-14 09:01 AM | Reply

There are 19 defendants. "Eighteen of the 19 defendants " the exception is Walden " are charged with conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiring to prevent an officer of the United States from discharging a duty. Eleven of the 19 defendants are charged with seditious conspiracy. Some of the defendants are also facing other related charges."
www.justice.gov

"In the days following the riot, prosecutors say Rhodes, who returned to Texas, spent another $17,500 on firearms and equipment " bringing his total expenditure to $40,000 in the immediate timeframe of January 6.

Another Oath Keeper, Joshua James, allegedly met with Rhodes in Alabama, collected "all available firearms" and then joined Rhodes and others at the president's home in Texas.

On Inauguration Day, prosecutors say, James sent a message saying, "After this ... if nothing happens ... its war ... Civil War 2.0."

www.wusa9.com

If there wasn't so much going on this would be the story everywhere. Everywhere but Fox "News" which still doens't have it on their website.

#134 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 09:07 AM | Reply

Thanks Alexandrite. I just keep shaking my head.

And somehow Boaz wasn't swept up in all of this?
Damn. That can't even be considered snark these days.

#135 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 09:09 AM | Reply

Dude is a divorced incel that shot his own eye out.

#136 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2022-01-14 09:24 AM | Reply

How are they going to shutdown ongoing FBI investigations?

Easy. You fire the FBI director.

Oh wait, that was already tried with not so great repercussions........lol

#137 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-14 09:51 AM | Reply

Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right?" McCarthy said on Fox News. "But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she's untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not fought."

Bwhahahaha, wasnt' McCarthy dropped from being the next potential Speaker at the time due this quote.

But here he's back again. Guess they just can't find anyone better.

#138 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-14 09:57 AM | Reply

Don't let this get lost in the memory hole:

abc7.com

While inside the Capitol, Caldwell allegedly received Facebook messages telling him to "seal" in lawmakers in the tunnels under the Capitol and to "turn on gas." Other messages appeared to be trying to give him updates on the locations of lawmakers, the affidavit states.

It sounds like the oath keepers were after a mass casualty event.

#139 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-14 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Jeez!

#140 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 11:25 AM | Reply

And keep in mind that a congressman (Greene?) tweeted about Pelosi's location.

#141 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-14 11:44 AM | Reply

"United 93 was intended to crash into the capitol. You think January 6th was worse than that?"

Reponse: "1000% percent"

ZERO pushback from any left-leaning outlets. None.

#92 | Posted by BellRinger

Because a civil war is worse than a foreign war idiot.

Your cult has been more harmful to america than any foreign terrorist could ever dream.

#142 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Internet tough guy falsely claiming victory.

#124 | Posted by BellRinger

Internet cult member falsely claiming "no big deal"

#143 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 11:50 AM | Reply

LOL, Sedition supporters, traitors and anti-vaxxers who threaten not only our democracy, but our very lives, wonder why their BS makes rational people angry.

There is a slew of adjectives to describe you traitors, but they'll all show up as "----"

#144 | Posted by chuffy at 2022-01-14 11:56 AM | Reply

Again, to save the DR, will everyone PLEASE plonk Bellringer and Jakester.

Just plonk, give them something else to do. I'm pretty close to forgetting about this site after 16 years. It's becoming unreadable.

#145 | Posted by bocaink at 2022-01-14 12:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Sure. I'll give it a try. I just detest the idea that his lies would remain unchallenged, but then challenging them repeats them and can cause them to stick. I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

#146 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 12:33 PM | Reply

"You'll shoot your eye out! You'll shoot your eye out!"

"Pffft. Right.
OW ----!!" - Stew

[career path narrows to only one choice: Eyepatch-Wearing Villain]

#147 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2022-01-14 02:48 PM | Reply

Dude is a divorced incel that shot his own eye out.

#136 | Posted by sitzkrieg

So he's like every other loser in that cult minus one eye.

#148 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 05:41 PM | Reply

"Again, to save the DR, will everyone PLEASE plonk Bellringer and Jakester. "

Yeah...it's hard to understand why anybody responds to these dirtbags.

Just feeds their severely demented egos.

#149 | Posted by Angrydad at 2022-01-14 05:41 PM | Reply

He looks like Chunk from the Goonies.

And probably is just as intelligent.

His conviction should be a slam dunk.

And obviously he did not learn the lesson from The Christmas Story and went and shot his eye out.

#150 | Posted by donnerboy at 2022-01-15 09:36 AM | Reply

I just read a very interesting piece about this case by Andrew McCarthy at NRO.

Before people slaughter the source, his piece was a legal analysis, not a political one and he's extremely harsh towards Trump in his analysis. Further, he was the requisite background (a distinguished career as a prosecutor and actually prosecuted a case of conspiracy sedition).

From his POV the prosecutors are making a mistake with this charge, especially given other charges that have a greater likelihood of success in court carry substantial prison sentences. In essence, the frame of mind of the ringleaders was that Trump won the election therefore they believed they were preserving the Constitutional transfer of power after an election, not waging war against it.

For those who are interested I think you will find it to be a very interesting legal analysis.

I can't link it because right-leaning sites are not allowed at the DR, but if you go to the NRO website it's at the very top of the page.

#151 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-15 11:27 AM | Reply

www.nationalreview.com

#152 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-01-15 11:54 AM | Reply

Hahaha, well given that many of the predictions that the author made have failed to materialize or been proven wrong, I will take his analysis with a grain of salt.

I, admittedly, am no expert, but he seems to be relying on the concept that the motivation of the seditionists matter with some primacy, specifically creating a distinction between lawful authority and simply authority-difference supposedly being whether the perpetrator BELIEVED he was acting against a LAWFUL authority or against the actual authority. If they believed they were acting against an unlawful authority then they are innocent, i.e. motivation for their actions matters.

WELLLLLLLL there are some issues with that.

1. It is easy to claim that one believed something when that belief will get them off the hook for their actions.
2. Motivation is not as clear cut as the author claims. I would argue it is a matter for the jury to decide and a jury may be less accepting of the myth that the perpetrators didn't know they were breaking the law.
3. There is ALOT we don't know yet including all of the communications that the government has in their possession and who else is part of the conspiracy-I suspect at a minimum Alex Jones and Roger Stone will get swept into it, which will bring in members of -------- inner circle.
4. ------- is a known prolific liar and there was PLENTY of information out there decrying his lies, so to argue that people acted because of his lies and didn't or shouldn't have known better is a stretch

BTW here is the sedition law language: "If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

I do not see any language about LAWFUL authority, so I have doubts about the importance of the motive that the author hangs his hat on.

Again, this will probably be a matter for the jury and I can easily see them being convinced that the seditionists did act against the authority of the government. And since 1/6 is such an anomaly in our history and a dangerous precedent for the future, I can envision precedent setting convictions being obtained.

As an aside, the author linked to a June article he wrote that he says supports his current assertion. his June article was based on additional factors, like a lack of serious threats and coordination-well that was put to rest-especially when the conspirators were attempting a mass casualty event against members of congress and the sedition charges lay out a very detailed coordination plan.

#153 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-15 12:09 PM | Reply

You would equally be able to rip to shreds his monumental work of fiction "Ball of Collusion: The Plot to Rig an Election and Destroy a Presidency." It gets great reviews from Trumphumping morons. The ridiculous premise sure whips up the wackadoodles, though.

#154 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-15 01:42 PM | Reply

Andrew C McCarthy again?? What a disgrace he is.

#155 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-15 01:50 PM | Reply

So we have one thought out response and two mindlessly attacking the source. As far as Ball of Collusion much of what is in there was validated by the Horowitz IG report.

Truthhurts easily beats out Yav and Laura Mohr on this.

#156 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-15 01:57 PM | Reply

Does one waste time with rubbish or does one discard it post haste??

#157 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-15 02:01 PM | Reply

"much of what is in there was validated by the Horowitz IG report. "

Are you going there, after the IG concluded the origin was valid, and none of the transgressions invalidated the crimes discovered?!? You've intimated that krapp before, and been proven wrong before. DO NOT fall back on that lie again.

#158 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-01-15 02:03 PM | Reply

"If they believed they were acting against an unlawful authority then they are innocent, i.e. motivation for their actions matters."

People who engaged in e.g. the Civil Rights movement were not innocent, they were guilty, and their crime was Civil Disobedience.

What the January 6 Insurrectionists did is take the concept behind Civil Disobedience, miss the point entirely, and evolve it to Criminal Disobedience.

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 02:07 PM | Reply

"Horowitz IG report"

Can we get the run-down on
How much of the Steele Dossier is true.
How much of the Steele Dossier is false.
How much of the Steele Dossier is still undetermined.

I asked for this before, I never got an answer.
If the answer is 100% false, someone would have said so by now...

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 02:09 PM | Reply

So we have one thought out response and two mindlessly attacking the source.

The source you said you couldn't link to because it's not allowed? Did you even try, or just lie?

#161 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-01-15 02:48 PM | Reply

#161. On the nooner a few weeks ago Rcade admonished me thusly:

Don't post -------- right wing sites like Fox News. Ever.

So, that's why I didn't post the link. I'm a guest and I want to be respectful to the site owner. Is that a good enough answer for you, Redial?

#162 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-15 05:25 PM | Reply

That doesn't sound true either.

#163 | Posted by Redial at 2022-01-15 07:44 PM | Reply

Need to order hip waders because crap is getting deep in here.

#164 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-15 08:01 PM | Reply

" That doesn't sound true either.

#163 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2022-01-15 07:44 PM | REPLY | FLAG:"

Well, it happened. Why would I describe how to access the article but not provide a link? This is a really strange case for you to make.

#165 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-16 01:26 AM | Reply

Need to order hip waders because crap is getting deep in here.

#164 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2022-01-15 08:01 PM

It's coming out of your arse and it's disgusting...Even the rodents and feral cats and dogs are fleeing.

#166 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-16 01:54 AM | Reply

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