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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, January 14, 2022

Instead of fighting fire with fire, Democratic politicians seem determined to let the GOP define the rules. Why should the party that doesn't believe in anything beyond owning the libs and serving its donors set the parameters for politics and society?

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The GOP has proven time and time again that it will make up bald-faced lies about anything, from an attempted coup to a deadly virus. It's time to embrace the only rule: There are none.
This.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-01-13 07:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

It was time for them to accept it in November of 2016. But because they are run by geriatrics who fail to understand how dramatically the world has changed, they continue to play by old rules.

#2 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 07:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

... Instead of fighting fire with fire, Democratic politicians seem determined to let the GOP define the rules. ...

If the Democrats descend to the same lie-based talking points as the Republicans have done, the Country will not be in a good place.

But that view still leaves an unanswered question --- how should Democrats respond to the wall of lies that the Republicans have erected?

Honestly, at this point, I do not know. But I'm definitely not a communications person (Engineers rarely are).

But I can see a problem. The Democrats have a messaging problem (e.g., "defund the police") (e.g., "CRT"). imo, the way to solve that problem is not to start lying.

The way to start solving that problem is to get better at messaging.


#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Lamp, the messaging is less of an issue then you surmise. CRT and to a lesser extent Defund the Police are issues because conservatives are masters at misinformation and propaganda. Point being is that no matter what the democrats do conservatives will spin their narrative.

CRT is literally nothing that the Dems have done, it has been created whole cloth by conservatives.

I will say the Dems had a unique opportunity in the wake of 1/6 and the impeachment of -------. Schumer dropped the ball not pushing forward with a months long trial. Put every single senator, congressman, talking head, "lawyer" or "journalist" who claimed or argued -------'s insanity on the stand and make them either lie under oath or disown the narrative.

The goal would have been to make ------- ineligible to run again. Maybe, just maybe, if the toxicity was on display enough republican senators would have turned away from him. Failing that goal, it would have been a non-stop reminder of the insanity of the republican party.

Schumer chose a different path.

#4 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 08:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

If the Democrats descend to the same lie-based talking points as the Republicans have done, the Country will not be in a good place.

I only ask this as a hypothetical and am not advocating for it, but:

If Dems really did start lying the way Republicans do, and the lies actually worked in terms of giving Dems more political power than they currently have, and millions of people suddenly had things like paid family leave, better healthcare, child benefits, etc ... could you still make the argument that the nation is "worse off?"

If we are already drowning in lies, what use is there for the only party trying to drag the US into the first world to be clinging to some noble rules of discourse?

#5 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 08:24 PM | Reply

@#4 ... CRT is literally nothing that the Dems have done, it has been created whole cloth by conservatives. ...

Exactly. And that is my point.

It was created by Republicans and attributed to Democrats by those Republicans.

And the Democrats had nothing in response.

Nothing.

Not one thing.

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#4 ... I will say the Dems had a unique opportunity in the wake of 1/6 and the impeachment of -------. Schumer dropped the ball not pushing forward with a months long trial. Put every single senator, congressman, talking head, "lawyer" or "journalist" who claimed or argued -------'s insanity on the stand and make them either lie under oath or disown the narrative. ...

Wow.

That's quite the statement.

Good luck with that.

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 08:34 PM | Reply

I'm amazed by how miserable lefties are.

For a group of people who value federal political power above just about anything else in life you'd think having the WH and both chambers would result in demonstrable happiness. But the opposite is the case.

#8 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 08:40 PM | Reply

The point that I believe is being made is not that Democrats need to start acting like Trump-controlled Republicans. It's that elected Democrats everywhere need to stop living in denial and realize that today's Republicans are energized zero-sum nihilists whose only goals are completely self-serving towards their own political power and interests, ie., they will NEVER even consider the interests of anyone else as equal to their own and they will actively delegitimize anyone and everyone with current political power who does not ascribe to their goals - including members of their own party.

IOW, elected Democrats need to stop trying to negotiate or compromise with Republicans because they do not operate from good faith, they operate from self-interest beginning to end. Democrats should use all means of earned power at their disposal because Republicans are busy making sure that their national minority of voters will triumph over numerical majorities in state after state where demographics continue to trend against them.

This isn't a cry to go teat for tat, it's a cry to stop wasting time trying to placate people whose existence consists of denying Democrats' earned rights to govern and enact the very laws and policies the majority of Americans actually want, especially those that insure this nation's history of being a democratic republic continues.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2022-01-13 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#9 Fortunately Democrats haven't been trying to negotiate of compromise with Republicans for several years now. So, they are already doing what you want them to do.

#10 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 08:46 PM | Reply

@#4 ... I will say the Dems had a unique opportunity in the wake of 1/6 and the impeachment of -------. Schumer dropped the ball not pushing forward with a months long trial. Put every single senator, congressman, talking head, "lawyer" or "journalist" who claimed or argued -------'s insanity on the stand and make them either lie under oath or disown the narrative. ...
Wow.
That's quite the statement.
Good luck with that.
#7 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Lamp, in the previous post you bemoan the democrat's inability to message. I am providing you the effective messaging.

Non-stop "republicans are insane" coordinated between media, scholars and politicians-hearings and the center piece being an impeachment trial. Anything less is the half measures you denigrate, rightfully so.

Republicans can spend years screaming Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi and the result was Clinton losing.

Flip that and replace an insignificant issue with the pure insanity of space lasers, baby eating and Italian servers. Non-stop, 24-hour messaging.

And the time to do it was after 1/6 when republicans were on their heels. McConnell himself was saying ------- was to blame.

Go for the throat, crush them when they are down!

Dems didn't.

the result is the slow mainstreaming of the lies, ------- retaining power-McConnell himself said ------- is the leader of the republican party.

Conservatives across the board can play the double-sided game of not really disowning the insanity by pretend it doesn't exist or they don't support it, while acting like they don't benefit from it.

but dems chose to think that covid relief or the infrastructure bill would get them reelected.

Well, here is a little truth for you-it won't. Period. End of Story. Gerrymandering guarantees a republican sweep in 2022.

#11 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm amazed by how miserable lefties are.
For a group of people who value federal political power above just about anything else in life you'd think having the WH and both chambers would result in demonstrable happiness. But the opposite is the case.

#8 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

And I'm amazed at how much of well-known, lying liar you are.

#12 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 08:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

He's not well-known.

25 people know him.

#13 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 09:00 PM | Reply

Gerrymandering guarantees a republican sweep in 2022.

#11 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Democrats sucking ass guarantees a republican sweep in 2022.

Fixed!

#14 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:00 PM | Reply

Truthhurts,

My guess is you were seriously bullied as a kid. It's the only thing that explains your temperament. It's unfortunate. Being bullied can be very traumatic with long lasting effects. I'm sorry that it happened to you.

#15 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:02 PM | Reply

Some people find it hard to be happy over things as trivial as politics when a plague still ravages the land, and one party continues to ignore it, resulting in the deaths of nearly a million Americans. Bit of a Pyrrhic victory.

On the other hand, what's not to be happy about? Herman Can killed himself with his own stupidity. Millions of other Americans have followed his suit.

You'd have to simply not like watching hundreds of thousands of people die horrible deaths, even though you opposite politically, to not be giddy right now.

Now watch this swing!

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 09:03 PM | Reply

#8 Oddly, had you turned on any rightwing radio or television program in 2016-17 (and i know you did), you'd have heard virtually nothing but rage programming and wondered the same thing.

Just kidding, you're a partisan ------- moron who can barely tie his shoes.

#17 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 09:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

It is cute that Democrats and their supporters, almost 11 months out, already have their rationalizations cued up to explain why they got destroyed in the mid terms.

Introspection is the best way to go but instead at least some are taking the delusional route preemptively.

#18 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:04 PM | Reply

"Millions of other Americans have followed his suit."

Hmm. that number is a bit optimistic... In my exuberant joy I may have exaggerated slightly.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 09:04 PM | Reply

#17 I don't listen to rightwing radio and haven't watched cable news in over 10 years. But yeah, whatever you need to believe to get you through the day.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:05 PM | Reply

I've finally figured out the source of Joe's perpetual anger - having 2 friends and not getting laid unless it was paid for in over a decade would make any incel extremely angry.

#21 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:06 PM | Reply

My guess is you were seriously bullied as a kid.

I was too busy ------- your mother to be bullied, liar.

#22 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 09:06 PM | Reply

I don't listen to rightwing radio and haven't watched cable news in over 10 years

This is hysterical. Thanks, as always, for the laugh.

#23 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 09:08 PM | Reply

11 months out, already have their rationalizations cued up to explain why they got destroyed in the mid terms.

You were fine when Trump baselessly accused Democrats of cheating.

It makes sense you be outraged when Democrats point out how Republicans changed voting laws literally days after losing the 2020 election.

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 09:08 PM | Reply

He's not well-known.
25 people know him.

#13 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Well known as in the vast majority of posters to the DR, dummy.

But you know that, don't you?

Makes one wonder why you post ---- like that.

#25 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 09:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It is cute that Democrats and their supporters, almost 11 months out, already have their rationalizations cued up to explain why they got destroyed in the mid terms.

No rationalization needed: Millions of Americans are as stupid as you, or even more so.

#26 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

To be clear dems will be crushed in the 2022 midterms because of gerrymandering, the typical historical precedent of president's party taking a beating and the voter suppression efforts being implemented.

#27 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 09:11 PM | Reply

This is hysterical. Thanks, as always, for the laugh.

#23 | POSTED BY JOE

You're welcome. I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier today when you made a claim I found to be contrary to how you express yourself. I took you at your word. You obviously are unwilling (unable?) to extend the same courtesy, which honestly strengthens my hypothesis about your incel anger - people don't want to associate themselves with that kind of crap.

#28 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:12 PM | Reply

No rationalization needed: Millions of Americans are as stupid as you, or even more so.

#26 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-01-13 09:09 PM

I promise you this - if the Democrats get destroyed in the midterms I will relentlessly point at you and giggle my ass off.

#29 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:13 PM | Reply

I don't listen to rightwing radio and haven't watched cable news in over 10 years

Who cares?

Welcome to the fkkking internet.

You don't need a radio to hear Rightwing hate.

You don't need cable to watch the news.

But. You do get a lot more options of where you can find your information.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 09:14 PM | Reply

@#11 ... Lamp, in the previous post you bemoan the democrat's inability to message. I am providing you the effective messaging. ...

In my view, your comment does not.

Ascribing juvenile appellations to major political figures is not "effective messaging."

#31 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 09:14 PM | Reply

@#18 ... It is cute that Democrats and their supporters, almost 11 months out, already have their rationalizations cued up to explain why they got destroyed in the mid terms. ...

It should be no surprise if the Democrats lose in 2022.

Historically, that has been the trend.

You do know history, don't you?

#32 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 09:16 PM | Reply

To be clear dems will be crushed in the 2022 midterms because of gerrymandering, the typical historical precedent of president's party taking a beating and the voter suppression efforts being implemented.
#27 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-01-13 09:11 PM

Democrats made gerrymandering into an art form and this clown is preemptively bitching about it for 2022?

The Dems will be crushed because they formed an unholy alliance with most of the media, big tech and other institutions to elect a dementia-addled under-achiever and a ridiculous VP at all costs just so man as orange man was gone. Now, when it's time to actually govern Dems have been an absolute train wreck. Voters see it.

I will be farting in your general direction if 2022 ends up being the bloodbath it is likely to be.

#33 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:17 PM | Reply

I promise you this - if the Democrats get destroyed in the midterms I will relentlessly point at you and giggle my ass off.

We already know they will be, so you can start now.

Congratulations on mastering the art of tricking people into self-harm and destroying your own country. You'll be dead before it matters. Sorry about your kids.

#34 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-13 09:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You do know history, don't you?

#32 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2022-01-13 09:16 PM

Of course. First term midterms are usually unkind to POTUS's party. I am not the one preemptively rationalizing a probable shellacking.

#35 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:18 PM | Reply

#34 Sorry to disappoint you but I'm in good health. My family and friends don't have to worry about an untimely death due to natural causes.

#36 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:20 PM | Reply

#34 I seriously hope Democrats campaign on what you just said - vote for us because you are too stupid to know your own best interests.

#37 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:21 PM | Reply

This thread actually had a very decent discussion going on between Tony and Lamp and Truth and Lamp.

It's a shame BellRinger decided to shht all over and turn this into another bullshht bickering thread.

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 09:24 PM | Reply

#38 That is one of the biggest self-owns I've seen in a while.

You just described your M.O. to a "T".

#39 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 09:28 PM | Reply

In my view, your comment does not.
Ascribing juvenile appellations to major political figures is not "effective messaging."
#31 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Juvenile appellations? -------?? That is the former president's name and title is it not?

#40 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 09:52 PM | Reply

@#11 ... I am providing you the effective messaging. ...

In my view, what your comment that I replied to was more mud-slinging than messaging.


If the Democrats on a national level start talking about, what you say, "-------," then the Democrats have lost it.

Plain and simple. They lost it.

So I'll ask...

What, exactly, is the message you think the Democrats should espouse going into the 2022 elections?


Seriously, what is the message?


#41 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 09:53 PM | Reply

@#35 ... Of course. First term midterms are usually unkind to POTUS's party. I am not the one preemptively rationalizing a probable shellacking. ...

Actually, with the admission in your comment, you are.


:)

#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 09:54 PM | Reply

@#33 .... I will be farting in your general direction if 2022 ends up being the bloodbath it is likely to be. ...

See... admission.


:)

#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 09:56 PM | Reply

#42 and #43

No, I'm actually not. Significant losses in the first midterm is pretty common. It happens for a variety of reasons most of which have nothing to do with the rationalizations being offered by the usual suspects on this site.

#44 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:00 PM | Reply

Well, Lamp, I think that you have to realize/acknowledge that the "messaging" has to be mudslinging.

Positive news lasts a news cycle.

Negative news lasts as long as the short term memory of the American voter lasts.

I realize that it is a bad thing, but it is the truth and to deny the truth is to forfeit the playing field.

Republicans handed dems a historic opportunity last january, not since 9/11 did Americans have the potential to be united. Dems should have gone hard after the former president's impeachment.

Republicans are crazy. they spout nonsense on a daily basis. Stuff that should probably have them hospitalized. USE THAT.

Have hearings on Space Lasers, on cannibalistic pedophilia rings, on all of the crazy voter fraud LIES that lead to 1/6. These things, as insane as they are, are touted daily by mainstream republicans.

Make them defend those positions. Not in the press, that is a small part of it. Make them go under oath and either defend or deny the lies that they spread.

Because here is the rub, Americans believe that crap! It was the reason that 1/6 happened. Americans think the 2020 election was stolen. The former president lied causing the insurrection. Those lies should have been the impeachment trial. You could have had a year of daily news stories on how these fictions came to be. Drag their lies into the light, exorcise them.

Remember, the economy is doing damned good and STILL the dems will get creamed come November. No POSITIVE messaging would change that, but you know what would be effective? Keeping the former president out of office in 2024. Positive messaging won't accomplish that. A successful impeachment conviction could have kept him out legally, reminding people of the lies that lead to 1/6 is a longer shot but the best shot otherwise.

#45 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:02 PM | Reply

BTW Republican get it. They are setting the table so that next time they don't fail in a similar situation to 1/2021

#46 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:04 PM | Reply

Make them go under oath and either defend or deny the lies that they spread.

It's not nearly that simple. The 1st amendment remains strong in this country (thank God). Congress can't just haul in anyone they want, put them under oath and compel whatever it is you think they should be compelled to admit.

#47 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:06 PM | Reply

It's not nearly that simple. The 1st amendment remains strong in this country (thank God). Congress can't just haul in anyone they want, put them under oath and compel whatever it is you think they should be compelled to admit.

#47 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Actually it is.

Lies about the election lead to 1/6

------- was impeached for inciting 1/6

The lies that lead to 1/6 should have been part of an impeachment trial

Every lie should have been examined in the trial. Everyone who spread those lies should have been compelled to defend or denounce those lies.

Pretty straightforward actually.

#48 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:10 PM | Reply

@#45 ... Well, Lamp, I think that you have to realize/acknowledge that the "messaging" has to be mudslinging. ...

I don't.

And I won't.

You have not convinced me that your goal of dragging down the Democratic Party to the level of Republicans is A Good Thing.


#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 10:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's that elected Democrats everywhere need to stop living in denial and realize that today's Republicans are energized zero-sum nihilists whose only goals are completely self-serving towards their own political power and interests, ie., they will NEVER even consider the interests of anyone else as equal to their own and they will actively delegitimize anyone and everyone with current political power who does not ascribe to their goals - including members of their own party."

Tony, with all due respect, you're trying to tell elected democrats how evil the republicans are as if you know so much more about them than they do.

Be realistic. You do not know them better than they do. You want elected democrats, who work closely with their opponents all the time, to accept something you seem to believe they are blind to.

Think about that a little bit......are you sure you're the one to tell them this?

I know this is hard for a lot of folks so I'm not trying to be an ------- here. I'm sincerely pointing out that elected democrats know thousand times more than you do.....and you're a well known smart fellas here. I extend that respect and consideration to you. It might extend to a few others....but on a very limited basis.

just sayin.....

#50 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 10:12 PM | Reply

The lies that lead to 1/6 should have been part of an impeachment trial

Why weren't they? An impeachment trial was held.

#51 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:13 PM | Reply

There is a difference Lamp as the Dems have reality on their side. I think the Lincoln Project is an excellent example of what I am getting at. Use reality against the republicans. Make the effort so all encompassing it will sink into even the dullest of conservatives.

If you don't see the benefit of going negative, then I am sorry to say, you are being naive.

#52 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:14 PM | Reply

The lies that lead to 1/6 should have been part of an impeachment trial
Why weren't they? An impeachment trial was held.

#51 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

As I stated earlier, Schumer chose otherwise. I do not defend or even chose to explain his actions as I disagree with him.

#53 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:17 PM | Reply

For the record, I agree with Lamp.

Sorry Lamp....that probably doesn't make anything easier for you here.

But you don't strike me as someone who gives a ---- about easy.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 10:17 PM | Reply

@#52 ... There is a difference Lamp as the Dems have reality on their side. ...

Does that really make a difference when nearly half the Country believes (yes, an almost religious belief) in an alternate reality?

And, that aside, I note you have still not justified "mudslinging."

Even if I were to agree with you, your comment still has not justified your assertion that Democrats having reality on their side would justify mudslinging.

I'm not buying that.


#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 10:21 PM | Reply

Take "mudslinging" out of the equation.

The message should be "republicans are insane"

the Lincoln Project has developed a highly effective messaging strategy in this regard

Dems should be hammering this night and day until November 2024.

#56 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:24 PM | Reply

As I stated earlier, Schumer chose otherwise. I do not defend or even chose to explain his actions as I disagree with him.

#53 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-01-13 10:17 PM

That's fair.

#57 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:24 PM | Reply

-The message should be "republicans are insane"

I'm for that. It's not like there aren't plenty of democrats running against a republican who can use that.

#58 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 10:26 PM | Reply

Given HoR politics the goal is 2024 not 2022

#59 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:28 PM | Reply

#39

"I know what you are, but what am I?"

LOL

Fnkcing classic.

#60 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2022-01-13 10:28 PM | Reply

Given HoR politics the goal is 2024 not 2022

#59 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2022-01-13 10:28 PM

Yes, that is true. Here is the problem, the further removed we become from Trump's presidency the harder it's going to be to point fingers backward at him. 2024 will be a referendum of Biden's first term. Given US politics that is all-but assured. According to the latest Quinnepac poll he's in the 30's but more importantly his approval rating with independents and Hispanics is in the 20's. He needs to start posting some W's before the midterms. If political history holds he will almost certainly lose the House (and probably the Senate given his numbers) and his ability to post political wins will become considerably higher.

#61 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:38 PM | Reply

#60 It was a personal attack by Clownshack and nothing more.

Were you expecting me to say, "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

#62 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:39 PM | Reply

62

That's exactly what he expects you to do. Let the personal attacks flow one direction and that's it.

It's fine. Let them all have a nervous breakdown over things. You can't stop it. Be nice or don't. It doesn't matter.

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-13 10:47 PM | Reply

It was a personal attack by Clownshack and nothing more.

I was pointing out how there were a couple interesting discussions happening on this thread until you showed up with your bullshht.

Carry on.

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 10:49 PM | Reply

#63 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Oh look.

Your boyfriend showed up with nothing to add.

#65 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-13 10:50 PM | Reply

Yes, that is true. Here is the problem, the further removed we become from Trump's presidency the harder it's going to be to point fingers backward at him. 2024 will be a referendum of Biden's first term. Given US politics that is all-but assured. According to the latest Quinnepac poll he's in the 30's but more importantly his approval rating with independents and Hispanics is in the 20's. He needs to start posting some W's before the midterms. If political history holds he will almost certainly lose the House (and probably the Senate given his numbers) and his ability to post political wins will become considerably higher.

#61 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

I would agree, except if ------- runs in 2024, then the election being referendum on Biden will be much less so.

Biden has had a great many victories to date. that is the problem, though, his accomplishments are lost in the political shuffle. So, Biden ends up seeming ineffective. I would say Biden is a little less effective than Obama was at this point. Biden is less charismatic than Obama. Obama got the ACA in the first year or 2, Biden got infrastructure and Covid relief-not as splashy as Obamacare but success none the less. Cleaning up after ------- isnt as great as cleaning up after the Bush mess

Lamp is arguing it is a matter of messaging. I am arguing that the danger lies in 2024, not in 2022 which is a lost cause. My strategy has the benefit of potentially getting rid of ------- and driving a wedge in the republican party between sane and insane.

#66 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 10:52 PM | Reply

Truthhurts made a good point about the goal being 2024, given 2022 is probably a loss, likely a big one.

So, let's look at how Democrats are positioned for 2024....

This is based on observation, especially given how controlling Biden's handlers are - he's in cognitive decline and likely has onset dementia. I've seen it in older relatives - it will plateau for a while and then a big stressor will cause a steep dip. I will be impressed if Biden can be limped along for the remainder of his first term. His veep and obvious successor is an absolute train-wreck. She has way too much personal ambition to resign so she will likely run in 2024. She will likely do as well as Dukakis. This means she will have to be primaried and a couple of long-term Democrat strategists just penned an article to this effect - Hillary 2024! Dear God, what a disaster that will be. so, who else do Democrats have on the bench? Bernie Sanders is a fading star and his time has passed. Michelle Obama? Perhaps. I think she'd be formidable. Granted in political time 2024 is eons away but right now prospects for Democrats don't look good, not as of right now.

#67 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:56 PM | Reply

"Yes, that is true. Here is the problem, the further removed we become from Trump's presidency the harder it's going to be to point fingers backward at him."

Why?

Until Barack Obama, Republicans pointed fingers at Jimmy Carter daily.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-13 10:56 PM | Reply

@356 ... Take "mudslinging" out of the equation. ...

OK.

...The message should be "republicans are insane"

the Lincoln Project has developed a highly effective messaging strategy in this regard ...

No and yes.

No, I disagree with the "insane" attribution.

Yes, the Lincoln has had a highly effective messaging strategy in this regard, but they have not called Republicans "insane" (at least, not in any of their videos that I've seen so far).

Indeed, the approach of the Lincoln Project is a good one. Bring to the forefront the inane behavior of the Republicans, but do not ascribe a pejorative term to it. Just show it and mention consequences.

The Lincoln Project, now, there's good messaging.

Do you think the Democrats might hire them?

Jus' askin' ;)

Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher
www.youtube.com



#69 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 10:58 PM | Reply

#66 Truthhurts,

The biggest possible gift to the Democratic Party and left-wing politics would be Trump on the GOP ticket, even if he wins. At that point he'd be a 1-termer and he's such a jag off he cannot build much of a consensus within his own party to enact meaningful, long-lasting legislation. Plus, no matter how low the Democratic Party is in the eyes of the public in '24 Trump has a very low ceiling for margin of victory.

#70 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 10:59 PM | Reply

Do you guys honestly think the Lincoln Project has good messaging? As a never-Trump organization, maybe. But as a "principled" conservative organization they are regarded as pond scum, not because they opposed Trump, but because they endorsed left-wing policies that their members used to oppose because those policies weren't endorsed by Trump. In short, they are grifters. If Democrats want Bill Kristol or Rick Wilson- they can have them.

#71 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-13 11:03 PM | Reply

@#70 ... The biggest possible gift to the Democratic Party and left-wing politics would be Trump on the GOP ticket ...

Maybe, maybe not.

I remain to be convinced of that assertion.

#72 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 11:12 PM | Reply

"This is based on observation, especially given how controlling Biden's handlers are - he's in cognitive decline and likely has onset dementia. I've seen it in older relatives - it will plateau for a while and then a big stressor will cause a steep dip."

I hope you saw and see it in Trump as well. Here's his answer in a recent interview when he was confronted with the fact that Rudy told a judge they had no evidence of fraud:

TRUMP: It was too early to ask for fraud and to talk about fraud. Rudy said that, because of the fact it was very early with the " because that was obviously at a very, very " that was a long time ago. The things that have found out have more than bore out what people thought and what people felt and what people found.

When you look at Langhofer, I disagree with him as an attorney. I did not think he was a good attorney to hire. I don't know what his game is, but I will just say this: You look at the findings. You look at the number of votes. Go into Detroit and just ask yourself, is it true that there are more votes than there are voters? Look at Pennsylvania. Look at Philadelphia. Is it true that there were far more votes than there were voters?

www.npr.org

#73 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-13 11:15 PM | Reply

@#71 ... Do you guys honestly think the Lincoln Project has good messaging? ...

(While I do not speak for the "you guys" of your comment...)

Yes.

... As a never-Trump organization, maybe. But as a "principled" conservative organization they are regarded as pond scum, ...

Because you happen to disagree politically with their message is not a reason to confirm your assertion they may not have good messaging.

Indeed, the objection contained in your comment may actually show that their messaging is spot on.

Jus' sayin'


#74 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 11:17 PM | Reply

WRT to the Lincoln Project, I am not commenting on the members, per se, but their messaging, IMO was quite effective in the 2020 election. they very effectively painted ------- for what he is. I can't recall a similarly effective messaging strategy from the democrats.

Lamp, again, I believe you are getting hung up on specific terms. My point is to go on the offensive regarding republican offensive behaviors. they missed that opportunity with -------'s 2nd impeachment.

WRT to 2024, I wouldnt rule out ------- quite yet. The base seems still quite loyal to him despite his recent missteps. And his base is ruling the republican party. I read somewhere where nearly every republican running for office at state and even local level is specifically stating support of him and his lies. I am not convinced that there is enough of a schism to drive him out of the leadership of the republican party. Aside from a few like Cheney and Romney every Republican either loudly and publicly supports him or is quiet in that regards (i.e. McConnell).

A presidential primary will be ugly, but if ------- gets the nomination expect the entire republican party to back him, to cleanse his record and fully support him.

And all ------- will need is a close election to declare fraud and we have 1/6 all over again, but without the patriotic republicans present to stop him.

#75 | Posted by truthhurts at 2022-01-13 11:17 PM | Reply

"But as a "principled" conservative organization they are regarded as pond scum, not because they opposed Trump, but because they endorsed left-wing policies that their members used to oppose because those policies weren't endorsed by Trump."

Link? What left-wing policies have they endorsed?

#76 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-13 11:17 PM | Reply

@#75 ... Lamp, again, I believe you are getting hung up on specific terms. ...

Guilty as charged.

Words have meanings.

And that is the basis of the whole messaging thing.

Doncha think?

When you want to make a messaging connecting to the general public, do you really think that words like "-------' are appropriate?


Know your audience.

Talk with them in the terms they understand.

The Lincoln Project does that quite well.

Your comments are lacking in that aspect.

Nelson Mandela

..."Because when you speak a language, English, well many people understand you, including Afrikaners, but when you speak Afrikaans, you know you go straight to their hearts." ...


.



#77 | Posted by LampLighter at 2022-01-13 11:32 PM | Reply

"fixate on conspiracy theories that question the integrity of our elections"

The election that Biden stole from Trump.
Stop The Steal!
#MAGA

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-14 03:49 AM | Reply

The way to start solving that problem is to get better at messaging.

Completely agree.

I think Bill Maher said it best, Republicans are best at naming things. Like "death panels".

#81 | Posted by brass30 at 2022-01-14 10:01 AM | Reply

You guys need to plonk Bellringer and Jakester like I have.

All of you. For the preservation of the DR

#82 | Posted by bocaink at 2022-01-14 11:44 AM | Reply

82

Are you sure it will preserve the DR?

posts either addressed to those 2 or about those 2 represent a substantial portion of the total posts here.

Now, I don't care about post count personally but this isn't my site either.

#83 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 12:03 PM | Reply

Been saying this for a couple of years now.

It does no good to play Chess against your adversary,
while the other guy plays Game of Thrones.

Stop playing chess Democrats. Start playing Game of Thrones
like the Republicans.

You can start with these indictments. Take them all the
way UP the food chain.

#84 | Posted by earthmuse at 2022-01-14 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you don't like the other party governing as if they aren't in reality, make sure your own party doesn't do the same thing. Until then, shut up about it.

#85 | Posted by humtake at 2022-01-14 12:29 PM | Reply

#83

I should have said "integrity" of the DR, Joe Rogan has a lot of listeners, doesn't mean he's not trash.

#86 | Posted by bocaink at 2022-01-14 01:04 PM | Reply

Actually Ebs...you make a great point.

I bid the DR adieu after 16 years. I need to fill my head with better content.

I wish people like Gal, Danni, Tony, Corky, Yav, Kudzu, and the rest of the good-faith crew all the best.

But I'm done. Longest relationship I ever had in my life.

#87 | Posted by bocaink at 2022-01-14 01:06 PM | Reply

I've taken breaks.....probably need another one.

I sincerely wish you well.

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-14 01:15 PM | Reply

I bid the DR adieu after 16 years.

Until we meet again.

#89 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 01:32 PM | Reply

Damn it, BocaInk. And you just got me to plonk Bellringer, too!

#90 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 01:47 PM | Reply

and no email on your account.
Well hell.
Best to you!!

#91 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 01:48 PM | Reply

It's time for America to accept that as the nation's demographics fundamentally change so do our norms and our accepted behaviors. And, as a consequence, we predictably get a generation of right wing politicians who pander to the resentments of people who do not like the changes.

#92 | Posted by moder8 at 2022-01-14 01:49 PM | Reply

"I bid the DR adieu after 16 years. I need to fill my head with better content."

Best wished to you, BocaInk. You will be missed, but I totally understand what you are saying and respect your decision to opt for "better content". I have been thinking it's time for me to take a break from the Retort as well.

#93 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 01:54 PM | Reply

Cheers Boca you're one of the good ones.

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-14 02:33 PM | Reply

Bocaink.

If you do decide to come back in a few hours. Or tomorrow or next week. Or whenever.

Most of us will be happy to see you posting again.

#95 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 02:37 PM | Reply

I'm amazed by how miserable lefties are.

For a group of people who value federal political power above just about anything else in life you'd think having the WH and both chambers would result in demonstrable happiness. But the opposite is the case.

#8 | Posted by BellRinger

You're the cult who was so miserable having a black president that you decided fascism was a better approach.

#96 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 03:09 PM | Reply

If you don't like the other party governing as if they aren't in reality, make sure your own party doesn't do the same thing. Until then, shut up about it.

#85 | Posted by humtake

If you want to attack the dems, do it on something real. Everyone knows your cult tried to overthrow demoracy. Dems didn't. Until then, shut the ---- up about it.

#97 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 03:10 PM | Reply

You guys need to plonk Bellringer and Jakester like I have.

All of you. For the preservation of the DR

#82 | Posted by bocaink

They'll just get new names again. That's what brave internet warriors they are.

#98 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 03:11 PM | Reply

Alternative headline:

Democrats need to accept FDR's vision for America is dead.

#99 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 03:13 PM | Reply

Days the guy who needs to make new usernames to avoid bans.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 03:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why should the party that doesn't believe in anything beyond owning the libs and serving its donors set the parameters for politics and society?"

Because you elected a dementia patient that cant lead not govern. His first year on the job has been nothing but a dumpster fire. And if this is any indication on whats to come, we're in for a real treat.

#102 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 03:56 PM | Reply

you elected a dementia patient

So did you, in 2016.

#103 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-14 04:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

What's it like to have Joe Biden kicking your ass? Got Infrastructure through when your addled brained moron could do was talk about infrastructure week for 4 years. What's it like that Joe Biden got a huge COVID relief package through? All in his first year? Trump accomplished nothing but inciting an insurrection and sedition.

Yay you.

#104 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 04:16 PM | Reply

His first year on the job has been nothing but a dumpster fire.

We're in the pandemic the last guy dropped the ball on.

Every year trump was a ------- disaster.

#105 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-14 04:30 PM | Reply

I'm no Biden fan. Not by a long ways. You expect him to clean up Trump's mess in a year you got to be crazy. It will take YEARS to clean up Trump's mess.

#106 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-14 04:34 PM | Reply

"His first year on the job has been nothing but a dumpster fire."

Was the worst part when we left Afghanistan after 20 years of accomplishing nothing?

Or was it the record low unemployment?

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-14 04:37 PM | Reply

The economy is so good president Branden wants another covid relief pay-out. With all the shortages it feels like Russia 1985. Let's Go Branden! Empty Shelve Biden! Hillary 2024!

#108 | Posted by visitor_ at 2022-01-14 05:00 PM | Reply

Let's Go Branden!
#108 | Posted by visitor_

You feel cool because you know the secret password to get into the fascist clubhouse

#109 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 05:04 PM | Reply

The economy is so good president Branden wants another covid relief pay-out.

Unemployment is so low that i bet even you have a job.

#110 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-14 05:16 PM | Reply

His first year on the job has been nothing but a dumpster fire.

He's done more for America in his first year than Trump did in all four.

Yet you're still salivating for Trump's putrid ----- on your face.

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 05:56 PM | Reply

people always come back.

Usually not the ones I want.

#113 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 05:57 PM | Reply

His first year on the job has been nothing but a dumpster fire.
We're in the pandemic the last guy dropped the ball on.
Every year trump was a ------- disaster.

#105 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2022-01-14 04:30 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

If you believe the numbers, over 100,000 more people died of COVID on Biden's watch and he had a vaccine (that he praised Trump for) for the entire year. THat's unacceptable by Biden's standards - or at least that's what he said when he was running for Dementia-in-Chief.

#114 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 06:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

That's my point, people always come back.

#111 | Posted by RUFFALO_ROB

No YOU always come back, hiding under new usernames like a coward.

Is this really the best place for you to recruit new fascists into your cult?

How many hours do you think you'd have to spend arguing on this website before you converted even ONE person from democracy supporter to fascist cult member?

#115 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 06:04 PM | Reply

over 100,000 more people died of COVID on Biden's watch

Trump saw a fire and threw gasoline on it and you're complaining most of the house burnt down after Biden took office.

While ignoring Trumpers doing their best to get infected and die.

Eat more dewormer, maybe that will help you be less full of shht.

#117 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 06:07 PM | Reply

You ever get around to thanking Trump for operation warp speed?

#116 | POSTED BY RUFFALO_ROB AT 2022-01-14 06:05 PM | REPLY

Why? most of you republican idiots don't believe in vaccines.

so what are we thanking him for?

#118 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-14 06:08 PM | Reply

operation warp speed?
#116 | POSTED BY RUFFALO_ROB

You mean, operation last ditch effort to win reelection?

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2022-01-14 06:08 PM | Reply

Was the worst part when we left Afghanistan after 20 years of accomplishing nothing?
Or was it the record low unemployment?

#107 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2022-01-14 04:37

Why don't you ask the 66% of americans that disapprove of his performance. I believe you will learn that most of the angst stems from poor performance with COVID, Inflation, supply chain issues and Biden's lack of interest in answering questions.

#120 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 06:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You ever get around to thanking Trump for operation warp speed?

POSTED BY RUFFALO_ROB AT 2022-01-14 06:05 PM | REPLY

He had nothing to do with those vaccines. It was done without any help from Trump. A person you should thank would be Dolly Parton. She donated a million dollars to Moderns.

#121 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-14 06:10 PM | Reply

operation warp speed?
#116 | POSTED BY RUFFALO_ROB
You mean, operation last ditch effort to win reelection?
#119 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2022-01-14 06:08 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

Biden is the one who gave Trump credit for warp speed on the vaccine, take it up with Biden.

#122 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 06:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#120. You forgot about the southern border.

#124 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 06:11 PM | Reply

While ignoring Trumpers doing their best to get infected and die.
Eat more dewormer, maybe that will help you be less full of shht.

#117 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2022-01-14 06:07 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

Ok, I believe I found the end of the internet. This has to be the stupidest thing I believe I've ever heard.

#125 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 06:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#123, it's pretty funny watching these people advocate vax mandates, denying healthcare to the unvaxed, etc over vaccines that were developed as a public/private enterprise under Trump.

#126 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 06:13 PM | Reply

If you believe the numbers, over 100,000 more people died of COVID on Biden's watch

Not really Biden's fault that Republicans have decided to make dying of Covid a political badge of honor. What is he supposed to do?

#128 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-14 06:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

He could force people to take the shots at gunpoint.

#130 | Posted by BellRinger at 2022-01-14 06:19 PM | Reply

Not really Biden's fault that Republicans have decided to make dying of Covid a political badge of honor. What is he supposed to do?

#128 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-01-14 06:17 PM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

And we have a runner up for the stupidest comment contest. How do you vaccinate over 70% of the country and lose over 100,000 more lives to COIVD Than you did the year before with no one vaccinated?

You lie, that's how.

#131 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-14 06:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

you can't make idiots vaccinate.

#132 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2022-01-14 06:22 PM | Reply

How do you vaccinate over 70% of the country and lose over 100,000 more lives to COIVD

Because people have grown tired of protecting themselves and are behaving more recklessly than they were before?

Because Republicans have sued every state and federal covid mitigation measure into oblivion, ensuring as many people as possible will continue to die?

I mean those are just off the top of my head.

#133 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-14 06:31 PM | Reply

You know there was a time in this country that being vaccinated was a badge of patriotism and honour. Now we have anti intellectualism that champions the lowest common denominator. All to pwn the intellectual liberals, Republicans have failed to study history and remember when life expectancy was very low due to lack of vaccines and medical treatments such as antibiotics and medicines.

#134 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2022-01-14 06:35 PM | Reply

How you say?
That's easy:

Pro-Trump counties now have far higher COVID death rates.

People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.73 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.

In October, the reddest tenth of the country saw death rates that were six times higher than the bluest tenth

www.npr.org

and:
2020 presidential election county winner:
Biden county:
35% unvaccinated
Trump county:
65% unvaccinated

www.kff.org

#135 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 06:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If only they had a suppository!" Dr left

#129 | Posted by RUFFALO_ROB

Yet youre the one talking about inserting things in your butt... Kind of how eberly is always talking about ---- and gay sex.

#136 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 06:49 PM | Reply

Getting the vaccine may as well be an admission that Trump's operation warp speed was a huge success.

#123 | Posted by RUFFALO_ROB

As if no other president would have had the idea to tell the pharmas to hurry up.

But every other president would have spent months preparing to distrubute the vaccines. Trump was too busy trying to end democracy.

#137 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2022-01-14 06:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Had Biden been president when Operation Warp Speed was initiated, Republicans would have sued and SCOTUS would have ruled it beyond the scope of congressionally-enumerated powers.

#138 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-14 06:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How do you vaccinate over 70% of the country and lose over 100,000 more lives to COIVD Than you did the year before with no one vaccinated?"

Because the parts of the country that have lost people to covid this year do not have the vaccination rates you cite:

States that were hit hard early in the pandemic had some of the highest COVID-19 death rates per capita in 2020, according to a recent analysis by The Wall Street Journal. The Northeast had some of the highest death rates per 100,000 residents, especially New Jersey and New York, as well as North Dakota and South Dakota.

This year, Southern states have reported the highest death rates due to a major surge caused by the contagious Delta variant. Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, and Tennessee have reported the highest death rates so far this year, the newspaper reported.

and:

Vermont has the lowest COVID-19 death rate per 100,000 people since the pandemic began, according to the Journal. The state also has the most vaccinated population, with 72% fully vaccinated.

Mississippi has the highest death rate since the pandemic began, the newspaper reported. The state is among the least vaccinated states, with 47% fully vaccinated.

www.webmd.com

#139 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 08:55 PM | Reply

"Because the parts of the country that have lost people to covid this year do not have the vaccination rates you cite"

Here is the most recent info in vaccination rates by state. Florida comes closest to being 70% vaccinated and Mississippi has improved its vaccination rate over November 2021 a bit. It's safe to assume the vaccinate rates were less last summer than they are now:

Tennessee:
% of Population Fully Vaccinated 53.63%

Alabama:
% of Population Fully Vaccinated 48.59%

Florida:
% of Population Fully Vaccinated 65.81%

Mississippi:
% of Population Fully Vaccinated 49.15%

coronavirus.jhu.edu

#140 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 08:59 PM | Reply

Ok, I believe I found the end of the internet. This has to be the stupidest thing I believe I've ever heard.
POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS AT 2022-01-14 06:13 PM

That's because you don't read your own comments out loud after you post them. ;-)

#141 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-14 09:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 4

Had Biden been president when Operation Warp Speed was initiated, Republicans would have sued and SCOTUS would have ruled it beyond the scope of congressionally-enumerated powers.

Liar prove it. This sort of comparison is just not a good look for us Liberals, yet I see it so much here. 1. it admits X is ------ up 2. you look like an insane mind reader.

#139 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Perhaps just perhaps having complications with COVID is correlated to obesity. Which is why the US is having so much trouble with it.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

#142 | Posted by oneironaut at 2022-01-14 09:29 PM | Reply

How do you vaccinate over 70% of the country and lose over 100,000 more lives to COIVD Than you did the year before with no one vaccinated?
You lie, that's how.

#131 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Looking at the responses to you on this thread, you got brutally stomped.

It's never pretty when fantasy meets reality.

#143 | Posted by Zed at 2022-01-14 09:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#131 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

I fully expect Republicans to keep killing themselves with COVID and, just like you did, find someone not themselves to blame it on.

Hard to believe in American exceptionalism when you people are not just stupid, but childishly stupid.

#144 | Posted by Zed at 2022-01-14 09:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"How do you vaccinate over 70% of the country and lose over 100,000 more lives to COIVD Than you did the year before with no one vaccinated?"

Ask a cop.

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-14 09:59 PM | Reply

Looking at the responses to you on this thread, you got brutally stomped.

But he did get to give out another one of his passive-aggressive "funny" flags, so for an incel, that's about as good as it gets.

#146 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-14 10:18 PM | Reply

Looking at the responses to you on this thread, you got brutally stomped.

It's never pretty when fantasy meets reality.

#143 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2022-01-14 09:42 PM | REPLY | FUNNY: 1

#131 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

------- out in numbers. Notice how they didn't give the vaccine any refit at all. In fact. By their logic, it made deaths go up. I wouldn't call that a win. It's willful ignorance just to say my tribe won.

#147 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 07:12 AM | Reply

Refit=credit

#148 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 07:13 AM | Reply

You can't fight fantasy. It's impossible to win a debate one one side gets to create their position out of whole cloth.

#149 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2022-01-15 07:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You have a better explanation for the 100,000 plus more deaths over a year after we began vaccinating people? Besides "it's all Trumpers dying"?

#150 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 07:34 AM | Reply

Yes. See #139 and #140.

#151 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 08:11 AM | Reply

Yes. See #139 and #140.

#151 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2022-01-15 08:11 AM | FLAG:

Those same people were there when there was one vaccine. The fact that more Americans died after a majority was vaccinated kills your explanation. You aren't giving the vaccine any credit. In fact, your explanation says it made things worse. Try harder.

#152 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 09:02 AM | Reply

One=no

#153 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 09:03 AM | Reply

The fact that more Americans died after a majority was vaccinated kills your explanation.

Wow you are astonishingly stupid.

#154 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-15 09:42 AM | Reply

Indeed.

#155 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-15 09:44 AM | Reply

Wow you are astonishingly stupid.

#154 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2022-01-15 09:42 AM | FLAG:
(CHOOSE)

feel free to show your math, Einstein.

#156 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 11:04 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Indeed.

#155 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2022-01-15 09:44 AM | REPLY

you, Joe, Gal etc... have yet to show (by the numbers) any credit towards the shot. Please explain (with actual numbers) how we began vaccinating people in December 2019 and still ended up with more COVID casualties in 2020 than we had in 2019.

There's only two possible answers.

1. The vaccine doesn't work
2. The numbers are wrong.

#157 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 11:09 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

157

You want to check your years on that?

2019? We haven't had the vaccine for even a year yet, right?

Has anybody had the vaccine for more than a year?

#158 | Posted by eberly at 2022-01-15 11:16 AM | Reply

That was my mix up. It was Dec 14, 2020.

Point is that with a vaccination available for a year, numbers of deaths shouldn't have risen - especially by over 100k

#159 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-15 11:36 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#159 You are ignoring the fact that the GOP is a Death Cult.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 11:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There's only two possible answers.

Only if you're stupid.

Congratulations?

#161 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-15 11:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Please explain (with actual numbers) how we began vaccinating people in December 2019 and still ended up with more COVID casualties in 2020 than we had in 2019."

You don't seem to have taken into account that the number of people who have ever gotten COVID can only go up.

Also, your (actual numbers) are off. We didn't begin vaccinating people in December 2019. We began seeing the first COVID cases around then. Vaccination didn't start happening in large numbers until early 2021.

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 12:04 PM | Reply

Point is that with a vaccination available for a year...

Being available does nothing if people don't take it.

#163 | Posted by REDIAL at 2022-01-15 12:06 PM | Reply

SNOOFY

Also, one person can infect hundreds.

#164 | Posted by Twinpac at 2022-01-15 12:25 PM | Reply

There's only two possible answers.

1. The vaccine doesn't work
2. The numbers are wrong.

Wrong as usual. You really need reality broken down Barney-Style? Let me help, then:
Population fully vaccinated: ~60%
Population of the United States: 329,500,000
Fatality rate of COVID: 1.6% for the United States.
Available "market" for death? 329,500,000 X 0.60 X 0.012 = 2,372,400.
Number of dead from COVID: 840,000
Headroom for more deaths: 2,372,400-840,000=1,532,400

Now you can take out younger folks that are less likely to die, and change things around a bit, correct for those states where vaccination is low - deep red counties in red states where the death rate from COVID is 6 times higher than deep blue counties, and refine this a bit, but the point is made. There's plenty of room for 100,000 to have died after vaccination became available, even ignoring the legitimate point Eberly raised.

It's basic math.

#165 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-15 12:38 PM | Reply

| Posted by lfthndthrds

Idiots need to be ignored.

#166 | Posted by Angrydad at 2022-01-15 12:51 PM | Reply

The data clearly shows that getting the vaccine is correlated with being gay or atheist.

#167 | Posted by bored at 2022-01-15 12:52 PM | Reply

Point is that with a vaccination available for a year, numbers of deaths shouldn't have risen

POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS AT

Point is that COVID deaths are what Republicans want and volunteer for.

#168 | Posted by Zed at 2022-01-15 12:57 PM | Reply

"Point is that with a vaccination available for a year, numbers of deaths shouldn't have risen"

Point is, Trumpers should have taken it. But since the GOP is a Death Cult, they didn't.

When are you going to figure this out? When you're on a ventilator? Let us know how that works out for you!

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 01:38 PM | Reply

Hmm. All I see is darker dirt, almost looks stained, where LftHndThrds used to stand. That and little pieces of fabric.

#170 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-15 01:44 PM | Reply

Anyone brining up math should look at two macrostatistics:

--Unvaccinated occupying 73%-94% of the ICU
www.mlive.com

--The above-thread 'reddest counties v bluest counties' mortality rates

If the conclusion isn't obvious...ask your school for a refund.

#171 | Posted by Danforth at 2022-01-15 02:00 PM | Reply

Point is that with a vaccination available for a year, numbers of deaths shouldn't have risen - especially by over 100k

It could be a valid point. Provided one party hasn't turned the virus into a political game. Provided one party doesn't use anti-vaccine, anti-mask, anti-mitigation efforts et. al. as outward symbols of membership and loyalty. Provided the leader of one party - no matter what he's said recently - while in power used everything at his disposal to downplay the virus, deny its existence, and mock and minimize those who were actively leading virus mitigation efforts.

#172 | Posted by El_Buscador at 2022-01-15 02:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Those same people were there when there was one vaccine. The fact that more Americans died after a majority was vaccinated kills your explanation. You aren't giving the vaccine any credit. In fact, your explanation says it made things worse. Try harder.
#152 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

I don't know what you are reading. You certainly aren't reading what I am posting. First of all the vaccination rate in this country right now is not 70%; it's 62%. That means it was less than that 6 months ago, 9 months ago, etc. :

The US outlier status for its rise in hospitalizations
"vs European countries now starting descent from Omicron
"in the US, the Omicron wave was superimposed on a 2nd Delta surge
"the US very low 62% vaxx and 23% booster rate is contributing to this
@OurWorldInData
twitter.com

I am giving the vaccinations credit. They do wane over time (which is why boosters are needed) and don't work as well at preventing breakthrough infections with Omicron as they did against the ancestral strains, but they still work well at preventing hospitalization and death in most people who have been boosted and aren't severely immunocompromised. Fair warning though: the boosters themselves wane over time. That's why Israel, e.g., is recommending a second booster (fourth shot) for seniors and for people who have compromised immune systems.

#173 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 02:48 PM | Reply

Also fair warning: the vaccinations don't work for everyone:

Omicron is not "milder" for so many people--the unvaccinated, the vaccinated but waned, and especially the immunocompromised, more than 7 million Americans who get left out and lack of respect[:]

From the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, the risk of getting infected with the coronavirus and developing severe disease from it was substantially higher for the millions of Americans with weakened immune systems because of treatment for cancer, autoimmune disorders, transplants and many other conditions.

Vaccines promised a respite. But physicians like us who care for immunocompromised people quickly learned that our patients' immune responses from vaccines were often weak. For example, in one study we showed that transplant recipients who were vaccinated with two doses of mRNA vaccines made by Moderna and Pfizer had an 82-fold higher risk of infection and 485-fold higher risk of hospitalization or dying compared with the vaccinated general population overall.

twitter.com

#174 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 02:53 PM | Reply

Bottom line: the vaccines don't work for everyone. Their effectiveness wanes over time, including the boosters. There is no guarantee they will continue to work against new variants, or if the pandemic continues for an extended period of time, because no one knows how many boosters it would be safe to have.

#175 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 02:59 PM | Reply

I would phrase that as "The vaccines aren't 100% effective."

Which is generally the case for vaccines. I know someone who got two shots of shingles vaccine and still ended up with shingles. But it was a relatively mild case, presumably due to the partial effectiveness of the vaccine.

#176 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 03:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Point is that with a vaccination available for a year, numbers of deaths shouldn't have risen - especially by over 100k"

Very few people were fully vaccinated (i.e. 2 shots) one year ago. A year ago at this time people over 65 were scrambling to find vaccination appointments online. Many people under 65 weren't fully vaccinated until April, May or even June.

#177 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 04:07 PM | Reply

I think LftHndThrds can't wrap his head around that not everyone gets COVID at the same time.

As of today "only" 66,328,889 have gotten COVID.

That means about 270,000,000 Americans hav not gotten COVID.

Seeing as you have to get COVID to die from COVID, it makes sense that the numbers went up -- even after the advent of vaccines, and especially since America is very the ---- far from herd immunity vaccination+exposure levels.

In his, uh, defense, LftHndThrds might just be so dumb he can't understand what I just said.

#178 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-15 04:12 PM | Reply

"America is very the ---- far from herd immunity"

Herd immunity is proving to be very illusive indeed:

Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH
@ashishkjha
Recently saw patient for COVID round 2

Had COVID last spring with long hospital stay

Now admitted with reinfection. Unvaccinated

He couldn't believe he had COVID again

Had been told he had life-long immunity

The misinformation on infection-induced immunity is costing lives
1:22 PM Jan 14, 2022
twitter.com

#179 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 04:34 PM | Reply

"In his, uh, defense, LftHndThrds might just be so dumb he can't understand what I just said."

Based on his comments in this thread, I would say he's a binary thinker.

#180 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-15 05:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I can assure you LfrHndThrds is non-binary.

#181 | Posted by Mao_Content at 2022-01-15 08:59 PM | Reply

1. The vaccine doesn't work
2. The numbers are wrong.

#157 | Posted by lfthndthrds

3. You're terrible at understanding numbers.

#182 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-15 09:39 PM | Reply

80-90+ percent of hospitalized COVID patients are unvaccinated.

#183 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2022-01-15 09:51 PM | Reply

#181 - That was in prison, and it was purely "situational."

#184 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-15 10:02 PM | Reply

Not one of you morons can offer a scientific answer. LMAO. Just attack the messenger, Angrydrunk.

#185 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2022-01-16 12:37 AM | Reply

Dems do have a messaging problem. The general public doesn't respond to nuance. If you're explaining, you're losing.

Dems need to be more concise, more direct e.g. "Women's rights" is concise, to the point and a good counter to Pro-Life. Similarly, "More Funds for Public Safety" is a good counter to "Defund the Police". "Teach American History" could be used to counter CRT.

#186 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2022-01-16 06:38 AM | Reply

"Please explain (with actual numbers) how we began vaccinating people in December 2019 and still ended up with more COVID casualties in 2020 than we had in 2019."

As the pandemic rages one, the unvaccinated for the most part are the ones who are dying:

Data for the US:
These Charts Show That COVID-19 is Still the Pandemic of the Unvaccinated
time.com

Data for the world:
How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?
ourworldindata.org

#187 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-16 09:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Not one of you morons can offer a scientific answer."

From the second link in the above post in case you miss it:

United States
The United States has fully vaccinated 62.5% of its population, mostly with the mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna. Mortality data by vaccination status is published by the US CDC.

This chart presents the COVID-19 death rate among unvaccinated people and among fully-vaccinated people.

ourworldindata.org

#188 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-16 09:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I think you'd be better off asking LftHnd what the definition of "Science" is, what it means, to him. It doesn't appear he knows. That or he's trolling. Seriously, no one can be that stupid, can they?

#189 | Posted by YAV at 2022-01-16 10:04 AM | Reply

I did offer an answer to lfthndedturd.

He sucks with numbers.

If he actually did the math he'd see that his "point" isn't really a point at all.

It's the ignorant yammering of a manchild dumbass.

#190 | Posted by jpw at 2022-01-16 10:48 AM | Reply

"I think you'd be better off asking LftHnd what the definition of "Science" is, what it means, to him. It doesn't appear he knows. That or he's trolling. Seriously, no one can be that stupid, can they?"

It will be interested to see if LFTHNDTHRDS comes back to this thread yet again with his nonsense. Stupid or trolling? How about both?

#191 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2022-01-16 11:06 AM | Reply

Not one of you morons can offer a scientific answer.

There isn't an answer in the world that would satisfy you. You're here to cast aspersions on the vaccines via stupid questions, regardless of what anyone tells you. You are not a reachable person.

#192 | Posted by JOE at 2022-01-16 12:24 PM | Reply

Not one of you morons can offer a scientific answer.
#185 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Do you have an answer?

#193 | Posted by snoofy at 2022-01-16 02:45 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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